'High Speed' chase.....
BrianNZ
For those of you who wonder when I say people do 'runners' here. This
guy got away on a Lifan Delta (Chinese copy of a Yamaha Virago?)...a
250cc V-twin cruiser with a top speed of about 120kmh! the cops called
off the chase for 'safety concerns' when he hit speeds of 100kmh in a 50
kmh zone.
Sean_Q_
> the cops called off the chase for 'safety concerns'
> when he hit speeds of 100kmh in a 50 kmh zone
Brian I hope this isn't giving you any bad ideas...
SQ
The Older Gentleman
> For those of you who wonder when I say people do 'runners' here. This
> guy got away on a Lifan Delta (Chinese copy of a Yamaha Virago?)...a
> 250cc V-twin cruiser with a top speed of about 120kmh! the cops called
> off the chase for 'safety concerns' when he hit speeds of 100kmh in a 50
> kmh zone.
<VBG>
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Datesfat Chicks
news:4b09fa5d$1...@news.orcon.net.nz...
I agree with the police on this one. For a stolen crap-grade motorcycle, it
isn't worth it.
There is also the possibility that the thief was young, and there is no
sense in crippling or killing him by forcing an accident.
An older thief won't waste his time stealing a 250cc motorcycle.
Datesfat
Datesfat Chicks
news:Xns9CCC9F6D...@69.16.185.252...
> "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfa...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:Ue2dnbQngd9MQpfW...@giganews.com:
>
>> There is also the possibility that the thief was young, and there is no
>> sense in crippling or killing him by forcing an accident.
>
>
>
> 1. The outcome would not be an 'accident'.
>
> 2. If he lived, crippled or not, he might learn a lesson.
>
> 3. If he didn't live, one less asshole stealing other people's property.
I think there are very few males who reach age 40 without having done some
really dumb stuff; much of it reckless and irresponsible.
#2 and #3 are just too cold for my tastes when the theft of a minor piece of
property is involved.
Theft of a 250cc motorcycle rates a jail term, a caning, a tasering, etc.
But it does not warrant death, disablement, or disfigurement.
I do not agree with you.
Maybe if it were bank robbery or theft of something worth more than $200,000
or so ...
Datesfat
BrianNZ
Instead of publicising that they will abandon chases at a given speed,
they should advertise that they will never break off a
chase....ever.....and they will follow you until you are caught.
Sod him....as soon as the cops put their lights/siren on, if you don't
pull over, what ever happens is your fault. if you get the death,
disablement, or disfigurement, well, you should have stopped.
$200,000 to a multi million dollar bank is sod all, but a 250cc bike to
a school leaver could well be his lifes savings. I'm 100% with Stephen
on this one.
Datesfat Chicks
>
>> Maybe if it were bank robbery or theft of something worth more than
>> $200,000 or so ...
>
> value. Nice to see where your morals lie. BTW, yer a whore.
When you get above a certain price threshold, you get into societal harm
rather than theft of property. For example, theft (and perhaps accidental
destruction) of an airliner worth $50M ... this is a piece of property whose
value exceeds that of a single human life.
Datesfat
BrianNZ
Tell that to someone that has $100 million!
Twibil
>
>
> Ahhh... So it's not a matter of the actual crime, only the monatary
> value. Nice to see where your morals lie. BTW, yer a whore.
And you're an idiot. (Although we already knew that.) Of *course* the
degree of a given crime influences the degree -and type- of punishment
meted out to offenders.
That's why the law distinguishes -and always has- between things such
as petty and grand larceny, where the value of the stolen item is
taken into account, or murder and manslaughter, where the difference
is not the result (a dead body) but the intent -or lack of same- of
the killer.
Q: do you know *anything* about how the justice system you are subject
to actually works?
Twibil
>
>
> Tell that to someone that has $100 million!
Someone who has $100 million could have you killed for circa $10,000,
so does that mean your life is worth less than his? I think not.
And I'd bet considerable that you think the same.
Vito
| Theft of a 250cc motorcycle rates a jail term, a caning, a tasering, etc.
| But it does not warrant death, disablement, or disfigurement.
Especially when the person killed or disabled is an innocent bystander, as
often happens in chases.
J. Clarke
Whatever happens to _him_ I agree with. I don't agree that if a cop loses
it while chasing him and runs over a convocation of nuns, a troop of boy
scouts, and a two week old baby the only one at fault is the criminal. Nor
if the cop intentionally nerfs the criminal into doing the same.
> $200,000 to a multi million dollar bank is sod all, but a 250cc bike
> to a school leaver could well be his lifes savings. I'm 100% with
> Stephen on this one.
Amen. This notion that the value of the property should dictate the
magnitude of the response just doesn't make sense to me. A person who will
steal a pair of roller skates will rob Fort Knox if he can get away with it.
If the kid next door to me and his buddies had gotten locked up the first
time they got in trouble then the guy that they eventually killed in the
course of a robbery would still be alive. It's not the nickel, it's the
principle of the thing.
I remember a gun control advocate saying way backalong "well what if some
kid breaks into your house to steal a pair of skates and you shoot him--a
pair of skates isn't worth a person's life". He's right, a pair of skates
isn't. The asshole should have thought of that before he broke into someone
else's house to steal them.
Datesfat Chicks
news:be9e91ea-5d84-44a2...@y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
That wasn't exactly my point.
When you plan transporation systems, in most cases the only way to balance
the equations is to assign a dollar value to human life (typically around
$3M, I think).
If you're designing an airliner, and you want to know if a $100,000 safety
device is worth it if it only prevents one crash nationally every 15 years
... In order to analyze that, you need to figure out the true "cost" of a
crash; which naturally includes the people on board and possibly on the
ground.
When someone is doing something _bad_ and the only way to stop them involves
injuring them and possibly also others, you need to do a cost-benefit
analysis. With a 250cc motorcycle, I don't think it is worth it to chase at
unsafe speeds. The bike isn't worth that much.
But if someone is removing gold from a bank or stealing a _very_ expensive
piece of equipment, deadly force after a warning may be appropriate.
It is the same when deciding whether to chase. If the guy embezzled $100K
from his employer, chasing may not be a good move (risk to bystanders
exceeds the benefit). But if the guy just shot 10 people at the mall and
will probably shoot others ...
The "not every life is worth the same amount" is an entirely separate topic.
BTW, I'm not sure you can get a good hit job for $10K. $50K, definitely,
but I'm not sure about $10K.
Datesfat
Vito
|
| Whatever happens to _him_ I agree with. I don't agree that if a cop loses
| it while chasing him and runs over a convocation of nuns, a troop of boy
| scouts, and a two week old baby the only one at fault is the criminal.
Nor
| if the cop intentionally nerfs the criminal into doing the same.
For me, it isn't a question of 'fault' - it is one of police and citizen
safety. I prefer that no innocents get hurt - not even nuns.
BrianNZ
If a cop loses it and runs over the nus,scouts and babies (and 'll throw
in a kitten and puppy as well for good measure) then it's still the
person doing the runner who is at fault. All he had to do was stop.
Letting people know they can get away by endangering the public just
encourages them, and once they get away with it once, they are bound to
try it again and again until they are caught. I'd rather the risks were
taken on the first pursuit.
In this case, not being able to pull over a 250CC cruiser with a top
speed of 120kmh is crazy and sends the wrong message to any wannabe bike
thief that all they have to do is speed and the chase will be abandoned.
>
>> $200,000 to a multi million dollar bank is sod all, but a 250cc bike
>> to a school leaver could well be his lifes savings. I'm 100% with
>> Stephen on this one.
>
> Amen. This notion that the value of the property should dictate the
> magnitude of the response just doesn't make sense to me. A person who will
> steal a pair of roller skates will rob Fort Knox if he can get away with it.
> If the kid next door to me and his buddies had gotten locked up the first
> time they got in trouble then the guy that they eventually killed in the
> course of a robbery would still be alive. It's not the nickel, it's the
> principle of the thing.
>
> I remember a gun control advocate saying way backalong "well what if some
> kid breaks into your house to steal a pair of skates and you shoot him--a
> pair of skates isn't worth a person's life". He's right, a pair of skates
> isn't. The asshole should have thought of that before he broke into someone
> else's house to steal them.
>
For sure....it might start with stealing a pair of skates, but could
easily end in an assault or worse for the homeowner (I didn't mean to
kill him!) if they are discovered part way through committing the crime.
Maybe datesfatchicks wants to live in a society where crime with a value
of less than say $200,000 can be ignored, but I don't. I don't like
thieves....from shoplifting chewing gum right through to multi million
dollar heists.
turby
wrote:
>
> BTW, I'm not sure you can get a good hit job for $10K. $50K, definitely,
> but I'm not sure about $10K.
It depends. For Krusty, it wouldn't cost you 10K.
J. Clarke
All the cop had to do was radio ahead so that another cop could in a
convenient place where the runner blowing himself to kingdom come would make
no difference lay a nail strip across the road. Or don't they have such
modern conveniences as radio and helicopters in New Zealand?
You act like the options are to chase the guy down and crash your police
cruiser into him at the first opportunity that offers itself or to do
absolutely nothing whatsoever and let him off scott free.
If those are the only options that offer themselves in New Zealand then New
Zealand needs to drag itself kicking and screaming into the last century.
> In this case, not being able to pull over a 250CC cruiser with a top
> speed of 120kmh is crazy and sends the wrong message to any wannabe
> bike thief that all they have to do is speed and the chase will be
> abandoned.
Why chase at all? Equip every police cruiser with a roll of piano wire.
When a bike does a runner, radio ahead and if he hasn't stopped by the time
he gets to the piano wire he's solved the problem.
BrianNZ
>
> All the cop had to do was radio ahead so that another cop could in a
> convenient place where the runner blowing himself to kingdom come would make
> no difference lay a nail strip across the road. Or don't they have such
> modern conveniences as radio and helicopters in New Zealand?
>
> You act like the options are to chase the guy down and crash your police
> cruiser into him at the first opportunity that offers itself or to do
> absolutely nothing whatsoever and let him off scott free.
>
> If those are the only options that offer themselves in New Zealand then New
> Zealand needs to drag itself kicking and screaming into the last century.
>
<snip>
The crashing of the cops into things was someone else's what-if.....I
was just running with it. :)
And you are so right. Thats the sad joke.....that a 250cc Cruiser can
escape from our police.
<snip>
Datesfat Chicks
>
> Maybe datesfatchicks wants to live in a society where crime with a value
> of less than say $200,000 can be ignored, but I don't. I don't like
> thieves....from shoplifting chewing gum right through to multi million
> dollar heists.
The issue isn't whether it is wrong or whether you should prosecute--the
issue is what risk you're willing to tolerate to prevent the theft or to
catch the thief.
Something like 1 in 10 police chases ends in a serious injury or worse for
the suspect, the police, or uninvolved parties. It just isn't worth it to
chase someone who stole a pack of gum or a 250cc motorcycle. The risk to
everyone exceeds the benefit.
These policies even propagate lower on the food chain:
Datesfat isn't suggesting ignoring the crime. Datesfat is saying be careful
that the risk you sustain is justified by the value of the property or the
risk to society.
Datesfat
S'mee
wrote:
> BTW, I'm not sure you can get a good hit job for $10K. $50K, definitely,
> but I'm not sure about $10K.
Shows what you know...I could get somebody whacked for less than $500
and not pay a dime out of pocket to get it done. <shrug> Just takes
leg work, willingness to risk getting shot. No big deal frankly.
S'mee
Yep I bet for a good dossier with all pertinant info...you'd find
quiet a few willing to do it pro bono. It's called doing your civic
duty.
S'mee
> Maybe datesfatchicks wants to live in a society where crime with a value
> of less than say $200,000 can be ignored, but I don't. I don't like
> thieves....from shoplifting chewing gum right through to multi million
> dollar heists.
I'd prefer a society that when you dispose of a criminal attempting to
steal cash or good will provide you counciling, a critque of your shot
group and weapon/ammo choices and any refresher training for saftey
and or marksmanship as needed, with NO investigation.
Then again I think it is everyones DUTY to shoot drunk drivers on
sight without prejudice. If the drunk driver doesn't survive any and
all points missing from your driving record should be replaced or
added as your jurisdiction works.
S'mee
wrote:
> "BrianNZ" <br...@itnz.co.nz> wrote in message
>
> news:4b0c2bee$1...@news.orcon.net.nz...
>
>
>
> > Maybe datesfatchicks wants to live in a society where crime with a value
> > of less than say $200,000 can be ignored, but I don't. I don't like
> > thieves....from shoplifting chewing gum right through to multi million
> > dollar heists.
>
> The issue isn't whether it is wrong or whether you should prosecute--the
> issue is what risk you're willing to tolerate to prevent the theft or to
> catch the thief.
>
> Something like 1 in 10 police chases ends in a serious injury or worse for
> the suspect, the police, or uninvolved parties. It just isn't worth it to
> chase someone who stole a pack of gum or a 250cc motorcycle. The risk to
> everyone exceeds the benefit.
>
> These policies even propagate lower on the food chain:
>
>
> Datesfat isn't suggesting ignoring the crime. Datesfat is saying be careful
> that the risk you sustain is justified by the value of the property or the
> risk to society.
>
> Datesfat
socialst speak for "YOU don't matter only money matters' Fuck that you
idiot...for that matter fuck you, you are a MORON.
BrianNZ
Expect return fire.....stop drop and roll.......
S'mee
Well, yeah if you can't shoot for shit that's true. I've yet to see a
inebriated person who was capable of doing anything except "huh?" or
try to swing back at the other drunk like a grade school yard fight.
8^) In a timely or reasonable time. No worries, not only that I'm a
decent wing shot...the rest of the world is on it's own.
--
Keith
Champion slut hugger
Datesfat Chicks
news:66e02415-b538-4301...@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Sorry, dude, I think the rest of the world is on my side.
If you look at the evolution of police pursuit procedures, or even the
Walmart "no chase" policy, these are risk based. There have been negative
incidents in the past where a person was unnecessarily maimed, crippled, or
killed for no good reason.
The fact that most large police departments now have pursuit procedures (all
of which basically say that the risk has to be justified) means that even
the police agree with me (not with you).
This has nothing to do with socialism.
You have made the argument that it is about money. That isn't my doing.
That is built into the law. Even with theft, there is a differentiation
between a misdemeanor and a felony. The dividing line is typically around
$100 - $1,000. It may very well end up that the police are not allowed in
many cases to chase me over misdemeanor theft but are over felony theft or
grand theft.
I agree with this way of thinking. It is about cost to society. Robbing a
bank for $250K does more harm than stealing a 250cc motorcycle.
Here is some material to review:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_theft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony
Datesfat
Datesfat Chicks
news:66e02415-b538-4301...@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
Sorry, dude, I think the rest of the world is on my side.
Chuck Rhode
> "S'mee" <steven...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:66e02415-b538-4301...@u16g2000pru.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 24, 8:22 pm, "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat.chi...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Datesfat isn't suggesting ignoring the crime. Datesfat is saying be
>> careful that the risk you sustain is justified by the value of the
>> property or the risk to society.
>>> ... Socialist speak for "YOU don't matter; only money matters."
> Sorry, dude, I think the rest of the world is on my side.
> The fact that most large police departments now have pursuit
> procedures (all of which basically say that the risk has to be
> justified) means that even the police agree with me (not with you).
> This has nothing to do with socialism.
99.4% of Socialists (Nazis) would agree with you.
--
.. Be Seeing You,
.. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
.. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
.. 46° — Wind WNW 12 mph — Sky overcast.
BrianNZ
There is a big gap between being over the breath alcohol limit to drive
and being to drunk to fight.
S'mee
wrote:
Not my fault the data is skewed by biased question. It's how a
question is asked that determines such conclusions...that's a fact.
S'mee
Not always...when you are so drunk that you can't hold on to the
floor...then you are too drunk to do anything.
turby
> ...
> 99.4% of Socialists (Nazis) would agree with you.
>
Are you suggesting Socialists are equivalent to Nazis?
Chuck Rhode
I'm suggesting Nazis are a subsect of Socialists, yes.
--
.. Be Seeing You,
.. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
.. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
.. 42° — Wind NW 3 mph — Sky overcast. Light rain; mist.
BrianNZ
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:59:49 -0800, turby wrote:
>
>> On Nov 25, 9:55 am, Chuck Rhode <CRh...@LacusVeris.com> wrote:
>
>>> 99.4% of Socialists (Nazis) would agree with you.
>
>> Are you suggesting Socialists are equivalent to Nazis?
>
> I'm suggesting Nazis are a subsect of Socialists, yes.
>
The National type......
J. Clarke
National Socialists are Socialists like People's Republics are Republics.
S'mee
Comrade, please you will not for to be teasing comrade Rhodes with
such captialist rhetoric.
S'mee
> On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:59:49 -0800, turby wrote:
> > On Nov 25, 9:55 am, Chuck Rhode <CRh...@LacusVeris.com> wrote:
> >> 99.4% of Socialists (Nazis) would agree with you.
> > Are you suggesting Socialists are equivalent to Nazis?
>
> I'm suggesting Nazis are a subsect of Socialists, yes.
I thought that was established FACT...i.e. Nationalist SOCIALIST
DEMOCRATIC Party. MInd, there was a time when socialist and democratic
were exclusive of each other. Still is for the most part.
Vito
| Really? So how much is *your* life worth?
|
To who? Morally or legally? Courts and juries are often called on to to
make such decisions in wrongful death lawsuits. I'm over 70 and eaten up by
crashes and diseases and I live on social security and income from
investments so, legally, mine isn't worth as much as, say a 25 year old
earning $200k/yr. But it's worth a bit more to me <g>.
Robert Bolton
<CRh...@LacusVeris.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 18:59:49 -0800, turby wrote:
>
>> On Nov 25, 9:55�am, Chuck Rhode <CRh...@LacusVeris.com> wrote:
>
>>> 99.4% of Socialists (Nazis) would agree with you.
>
>> Are you suggesting Socialists are equivalent to Nazis?
>
>I'm suggesting Nazis are a subsect of Socialists, yes.
Just passing through while the ham is baking...
Doesn't the mention of Nazis mandate a thread's end?
The US Republican party is a subset of socialism, as they routinely
fashion legislation that manipulates so-called private enterprise.
I personally prefer Law Enforcement to use their brains in deciding
when it's best to break off pursuit in the interest of public safety.
Granted safety can be overblown, but we recently had a case in
Fairbanks where a cop shot a guy who refused to pull over. I don't
know any of the specifics, but I wouldn't want that to become standard
procedure.
Robert
Doug Payne
> Just passing through while the ham is baking...
>
> Doesn't the mention of Nazis mandate a thread's end?
S'mee
> "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat.chi...@gmail.com> wrote innews:0padnV7PIahQwpbW...@giganews.com:
>
> > When you get above a certain price threshold, you get into societal
> > harm rather than theft of property. For example, theft (and perhaps
> > accidental destruction) of an airliner worth $50M ... this is a piece
> > of property whose value exceeds that of a single human life.
>
> Really? So how much is *your* life worth?
Can't speak for OCD boy...but, nobody can afford mine. Niether
individuals, corporations or governents have the means to buy my life.
That's why I'm alive...
S'mee
> "Datesfat Chicks" <datesfat.chi...@gmail.com> wrote innews:0padnV7PIahQwpbW...@giganews.com:
>
> > When you get above a certain price threshold, you get into societal
> > harm rather than theft of property. For example, theft (and perhaps
> > accidental destruction) of an airliner worth $50M ... this is a piece
> > of property whose value exceeds that of a single human life.
>
> Really? So how much is *your* life worth?
Dunno about him, butttttt. If you have to ask you obviously can't
afford it. 8^)
Vito
| Should be that once the lights and siren comes on you have one chance
| to pull over in a safe area. Forgo that chance and all bets are off.
| Any force necessary to stop you should be allowed.
|
In a perfect world I agree but did you ever hear of a red light bandit?
Some crime experts recommend driving to a well lighted and crowded place
first.