Has anbody ever tried Leak Proof fork seals?
Albrecht
at the Screwzuki $teaker$hip if he had Leak Proof fork seals on hand.
He didn't have them, so I postponed the replacement.
This is what Leak Proof claims:
Leak Proof Fork Seals
All Leak Proof™ Seals are made in the USA and include a Manufacturer's
Lifetime Guarantee. Sold in pairs. Teflon-coated to reduce seal drag
by up to 80%. Pro-Moly Fork Seals Superior to other moly fork seals
with a thin coating of moly which wears off. Made of a special rubber/
moly blend that results in a permanent 20% reduction in stiction for
smoother action and less wear on sealing surfaces. American Classic™
Fork Seals Patented ‘Pressure Balanced’ design floats in the seal
cavity adjusting to varying pressure spikes under all conditions for
longer life and less drag.
http://www.motohaus.com/html/seals/leakproof%20intro.htm
In 1970 Leak Proof Fork Seals were introduced to the Motorcycle
industry - at first only a few applications were available, mostly for
dirt bikes. The popularity of these fork seals also created a huge
demand for seals for the ever popular street bikes. Leak Proof Seals
responded by making fork seals for more and more makes and models of
motorcycle.
So popular were Leak Proof Seals that at one time they were OEM
replacement seals for Triumph and Husqvana.
Now, over 25 years later, Leak Proof Seals manufacturers fork seals
for virtually every motorcycle made!
Advanced Design From Hydraulics Technology
Leak Proof Seals patented 'PRESSURE BALANCED' design performs unlike
any ordinary fork seal. Made of state-of-the-art material, the seal is
allowed to float in the seal cavity, adjusting automatically to
varying pressure 'spikes' under all conditions, thus resulting in
longer seal life and substantially less seal drag (stiction).
'Push Fit' Installation
Leak Proof Seals feature easy 'PUSH FIT' installation unlike stock
seals which are 'PRESS FIT' and often require special tools to remove
and install. Leak Proof Seals are pliable and can easily be installed
with just the forefinger and thumb, making it problem free for the
shop mechanic or do-it-yourself consumer. Detailed instructions are
included with every kit.
Lifetime Guarantee
Provided that the seals have been correctly installed and the
associated fork components are in serviceable condition, each and
every set of Leak Proof Seals is backed by our LIFETIME GUARANTEE.
Inventory And Packaging
Because Leak Proof Seals cross reference to many makes and models,
dealer inventory can be kept to a minimum while covering a large
number of motorcycles. For example, 20 of our most popular Leak Proof
Seals part numbers cross reference to over 200 OEM part numbers of the
four Japanese manufacturers. They are simply a must for the multiple
brand dealership!
Leak Proof Re-Invents The Fork Seal
With the Competition Dirt and Street rider in mind, we have developed
the new Leak Proof PRO-MOLY fork seal. Originally, we took our basic
Leak Proof Seals and applied a thin coating of moly. While this
process has helped reduce stiction, the moly coating was susceptible
to wear and would eventually wear through. Now, we have produced a
material consisting of a rubber/moly blend which provides permanent
moly performance lasting the lifetime of the seal. This results in
over 20% reduction in stiction over the stock seal.
Our PRO-MOLY line is also backed by our unique LIFETIME GUARANTEE and
is packaged in four colour, bright neons. We have selected our 25 most
popular dirt and street seals for production in our unique moly blend.
Leak Proof Seals
Performance under Pressure
chateau...@btinternet.com
> Last time I thought about replacing fork seals, I asked the parts guy
> at the Screwzuki $teaker$hip if he had Leak Proof fork seals on hand.
>
> He didn't have them, so I postponed the replacement.
>
> This is what Leak Proof claims:
>
Jeez, just post a url next time....
All seals will leak eventually, some time. God's immutable law. I find
it hard to believe that aftermarket ones will be significantly better
than units fitted as OE, but if they're cheap and available, why not
try them?
Albrecht
<chateau.mur...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 12 Apr, 06:59, "Albrecht" <von.rae...@gmail.com> wrote:>
>
> > This is what Leak Proof claims:
> Jeez, just post a url next time....
I usually don't post an URL, unless I am going to discuss the subject
at length.
Some users on other groups find amusing web sites in their idle
surfing, and they post
links in messages with enigmatic subject lines.
I could spend my whole day, sniffing their trail, without gaining any
useful knowledge whatever.
Albrecht
> "Albrecht" <von.rae...@gmail.com> writes:
> >http://www.motohaus.com/html/seals/leakproof%20intro.htm
>
> http://www.motohaus.com/html/seals/road%20listings/suzuki%20road.htm
>
> Wow. Do they really have nothing newer than 1998?
I dunno. Maybe?
www.motohaus.com may not be Leak Proof's own website. Motohaus.com
also hosted an overly-active motorcycle e-mail group that I once
subscribed to. I used to delete 300 unread e-mails from them every
day.
Leak Proof seals were listed in the 2006 Tucker Rocky catalog.
The Older Gentleman
> I usually don't post an URL, unless I am going to discuss the subject
> at length.
But you did ;-)
--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
Roger Hunt
years ago, and they were so bloody tight around the stanchions the front
suspension wouldn't move.
Waste of time and money.
--
Roger Hunt
James Clark
> . . . unless I am going to discuss the subject at length.
>
>
Do you do it any other way?
Albrecht
Given the choice between verbosity and vagueness, I prefer the former.
John Johnson
"Albrecht" <von.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
So, when are you going to discuss the subject, rather than pick a fight
with TOG?
You asked a short question, posted a bunch of advertising copy from
their website, and....presumably the discussion will follow.
--
Later,
John
'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.
Wudsracer
>Last time I thought about replacing fork seals, I asked the parts guy
>at the Screwzuki $teaker$hip if he had Leak Proof fork seals on hand.
>
>He didn't have them, so I postponed the replacement.
>
>This is what Leak Proof claims:
>
<snip>
*************************************************************
I've had bad results from leakproof seals, both in dirt bikes (tried
several times on various dirt bikes from early '80s to 2000 models)
and street bikes (late '80s.) Leakproof seals have invariably
started leaking earlier than the more "conventional" fork seals.
They were all installed correctly.
The best, and longest lasting, fork seals that I have used are the
Japanese NOK fork seals. They are generally more expensive, but well
worth it.
If they are not available for your bike, you might try the
inexpensive K&S fork seals. I have had pretty good service out of
them; but not nearly the same service as from NOK seals.
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
Wudsracer
>
>I tried some "leak proof" (no idea if it is the same outfit) fork seals
>years ago, and they were so bloody tight around the stanchions the front
>suspension wouldn't move.
>Waste of time and money.
Not defending what I consider to be inferior seals, but being too
tight and causing "stiction" is not what they are "famous" for.
You might have had an installation or application problem.
For them to have a chance to work, they have to move in the fork leg a
bit.
Roger Hunt
>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:13:36 +0100, Roger Hunt <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>
>>I tried some "leak proof" (no idea if it is the same outfit) fork seals
>>years ago, and they were so bloody tight around the stanchions the front
>>suspension wouldn't move.
>>Waste of time and money.
>
>Not defending what I consider to be inferior seals, but being too
>tight and causing "stiction" is not what they are "famous" for.
>You might have had an installation or application problem.
>
>For them to have a chance to work, they have to move in the fork leg a
>bit.
>
These were ridiculously tight though, allegedly the right size, no
installation problems.
--
Roger Hunt
Mark Olson
>
>>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 20:13:36 +0100, Roger Hunt <nos...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I tried some "leak proof" (no idea if it is the same outfit) fork seals
>>>years ago, and they were so bloody tight around the stanchions the front
>>>suspension wouldn't move.
>>>Waste of time and money.
>>
>>Not defending what I consider to be inferior seals, but being too
>>tight and causing "stiction" is not what they are "famous" for.
>>You might have had an installation or application problem.
>>
>>For them to have a chance to work, they have to move in the fork leg a
>>bit.
Do tell- I don't understand why fork seals would need to move relative
to the fork slider. Not saying you're wrong, just curious about the
reason.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Albrecht
> So, when are you going to discuss the subject, rather than pick a fight
> with TOG?
I think you have it backwards. TOG wants to debate for the sake of the
game, rather than discuss the objective merit of supposedly "leak
proof" fork seals,
which he has never used.
If my web browser is set to display the format of this group in
English, the threads are called "Discussions". If I set my browser to
display the format in Spanish, the threads are called "Debates".
"Debate" sounds more like an invitation to argue, but, when I read
Spanish language newsgroups, I find that the participants are usually
quite well behaved, compared to the participants of English language
groups.
Discussion and debate are words with similar meanings.
To "discuss" something involves taking the subject apart and analyzing
it.
Discussions should take place without ad hominem attacks.
To "debate" also involves analysis of the subject, but it goes further
than analysis. Debate involves apparently logical rhetoric and
maneuvering to somehow cause one debator to accept the other debator's
viewpoint.
Many debators believe that somebody should somehow "win" the debate.
But two debators often have a clash of logic and rhetoric and part
with neither side having changed their original point of view.
What actually happens, is that the "loser" in the debate considers
better arguments and tries to "win" the next discussion, because he
firmly believes in certain ideas.
Somebody once said that ideas were neutral, but rigidly-held beliefs
caused wars...
> You asked a short question, posted a bunch of advertising copy from
> their website, and....presumably the discussion will follow.
Yes, I most certainly did introduce the topic with a succinct
question. That's the way interesting technical discussions are often
started.
And I posted Leak Proof's claims to see if anybody could argue
directly with
their ideas about fork seals. I have never used Leak Proof fork seals,
so far as I can recall.
I did NOT want to get into meta-discussion over how this group should
be used or who should be allowed to offer their experience or
knowledge of the subject, or how long-winded the post should be.
I wanted to hear from people who had actually used Leak Proof seals.
So far,
I've heard from about three people who've used them, two responses
were negative, and one response indicated that fork gaiters may have
kept leakage from occuring by excluding road grime.
If you have ever used Leak Proof fork seals and want to share your
experience, then please do so.
Albrecht
wrote:
> Not defending what I consider to be inferior seals, but being too
> tight and causing "stiction" is not what they are "famous" for.
> You might have had an installation or application problem.
>
> For them to have a chance to work, they have to move in the fork leg a
> bit.
"Advanced Design From Hydraulics Technology
Leak Proof Seals patented 'PRESSURE BALANCED' design performs unlike
any ordinary fork seal. Made of state-of-the-art material, the seal
is
allowed to float in the seal cavity, adjusting automatically to
varying pressure 'spikes' under all conditions, thus resulting in
longer seal life and substantially less seal drag (stiction)."
The above statement from Leak Proof made me wonder if fork oil
wouldn't just weep past the outer perimeter of the seal as it
"floated" in the seal cavity.
Did you ever observe any such leakage?
The Older Gentleman
> I think you have it backwards. TOG wants to debate for the sake of the
> game, rather than discuss the objective merit of supposedly "leak
> proof" fork seals,
> which he has never used.
TOG has simply pointed out that he does not believe in leak-proof seals,
rather in the manner that he does not believe in an unsinkable ship nor
an uncrashable aeroplane.
Why have you morphed again?
Wudsracer
*************************************************************
First, before I reply, I hope that you all will indulge me a short
"side note".:
This is a very good and instructive group. I've started posting here
to hopefully pay back some of what I have gained by lurking in the
background. The assembled knowledge and experience here is truly a
resource.
I originally started looking in here when the flame wars and drivel
got to be to much for me to find all the tech content that I crave on
rmd, which is still my "home group" and primary group.
(I have been posting there since 1996, and have between 6 & 8K posts
there in that time period, from different profiles. Not all of it is
worthwhile reading, but I have nearly always tried to take the high
road in my discussion participation.)
Each of the principle posters here has posted information which has
helped me, both in my former business and in my pastime (obsession)
for keeping both my bikes and my friends' bikes in good working order.
From the first paragraph of this post, one can easily surmise that i
don't care much for flame wars or what I consider to be petty
bickering.
Not knowing everyone, it is hard to tell where the line is between
friends ragging on friends and simple petty trollish bickering.
I'm bringing all this up, because lately I have seen more and more
antagonism filter through the posts here. It worries me, as I want to
keep getting all the resources from this group that I can possibly
get.
I want this newsgroup to stay healthy and grow.
Even though I can see everyone's (I mean everyone's) point in what
they say, that doesn't mean that we can't agree to disagree in a
congenial manner.
Why can't we all just throw out (contribute) the info that we can
share, and then pick it apart in a logical, factual, and constructive
manner, without animosity.
Personally, a lot of my information is from what others have shared
with me. A lot of it comes from my personal experiences from 45 years
of riding and working on my own bikes. (I am currently 54 year of
age.) A whole lot of my info comes from running a general motorcycle
and atv shop for nine of the last ten years, and asking questions from
a lot of industry resources. The shop was primarily an off-road race
shop for dirtbikes and atvs, and a franchised GasGas dealership. We
also did some street bike repair, when we were talked into it, and the
shop work was slow.
(We closed the business last June 1st. All that is left of the shop
is some remaining inventory and the bulletin board from the web site.
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/index.php )
Nevertheless, I realize that I don't (and never will) know anywhere
near everything, and also realize that not everything that I think I
know is completely true. It is just the truth as I have come to
believe it to be.
I really like it when someone can correct me when I am incorrect,
and help me know what is correct.
Repeating myself, I want to thank each poster for the help that they
have (unknowingly) given me in the past in my capacity as a lurker.
I make this statement/plea to the group to please not let BS get in
the way of keeping this newsgroup the quality resource that it has
been to me.
Please pardon my long winded off-topic ramblings, and please take this
in the constructive way it was intended.
* * * * *
Now, to answer your questions.
On the different dirt bikes I have installed the leakproof seals,
they have always "weeped" at the sealing surface; and in one case a
seal blew out of it's seating area altogether. I think that the
momentum the seal gained by moving, just continued when the forks
bottomed ('87 430 WR Husky) and took out the keeper ring/clip with it
on the seal's way up the fork leg. That was the last time that I used
them on a friend's dirt bike.
I had better luck with the Leakproof seals on my old XV920RH ('81
Euro model) forks. Still, they started weeping and then leaking
within one year after installation. The OEM fork seals worked
perfectly for 6 years.
Except for the above mentioned incident where the fork seal traveled
up and out of it's seating area, I have not observed any leakage
around the outside of any Leakproof fork seals. (The range of movement
that the Leakproof seals require is only about 1/8", if I remember
correctly.)
I stand by my recommendation of NOK fork seals.
Good Riding to You.
The Older Gentleman
> But YOU have NO experience with fork seals made by a company called
> "Leak Proof", isn't that correct? Did you notice that the subject line
> in this
> thread was "Has anbody ever tried Leak Proof forks seals?"
>
> Why answer if you don't believe that there is such a thing as fork
> seals manufactured or distributed by Leak Proof?
That's not what I said, though, is it?
>
> > Why have you morphed again?
>
> Because I can. Google makes it possible for an anonymous user to have
> an infinite number of nicknames to be used in an infinite number of
> groups, and allows the user to change nicknames with every message.
So nothing to do with being made to look a fool again (wasn't it
something to do with your interpretation of what fibreglass was?) and
hoping nobody will notice your new persona, then?
The Older Gentleman
<mega snip>
> I stand by my recommendation of NOK fork seals.
Which is fairy nuff.
In many, many instances I find that OE is best. Seals, exhausts,
cables....
There are exceptions - suspension is a good instance, especially on
budget bikes. Brakes, sometimes. Bearings - almost always available
elsewhere, to the same quality, and cheaper. Electrical items.
But for serious stuff, it's always wise to assume that the manufacturer
knows better than you do.
Albrecht
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> So nothing to do with being made to look a fool again (wasn't it
> something to do with your interpretation of what fibreglass was?) and
> hoping nobody will notice your new persona, then?
I don't know what fiberglass is? Hah!
Pay close attention now. I was laminating fiberglass for aerospace
vehicles when you were still making model airplanes. Some of the
fiberglass that I laid up in 1968 went to the Moon and back in 1969.
John Johnson
"Albrecht" <von.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Apr 12, 6:57?pm, John Johnson <n...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > So, when are you going to discuss the subject, rather than pick a fight
> > with TOG?
>
> I think you have it backwards. TOG wants to debate for the sake of the
> game, rather than discuss the objective merit of supposedly "leak
> proof" fork seals,
> which he has never used.
[snip]
I'll leave that matter to you and TOG, saying only that I find it
difficult to believe that you don't enjoy it a bit, given that you don't
killfile and ignore him if he's really that irritating and
unknowledgable. I find it difficult to believe that ToG doesn't enjoy it
some, for the same reasons.
That's all I have to say on that subject.
>
> I wanted to hear from people who had actually used Leak Proof seals.
> So far,
> I've heard from about three people who've used them, two responses
> were negative, and one response indicated that fork gaiters may have
> kept leakage from occuring by excluding road grime.
I do apologize then. I was simply confused by your including the blurb
from leak-proof's site and thought that it was going to be the subject
of some discussion of yours.
Nope, never used them.
Bob Scott
>
>Nope, never used them.
>
Neither have I.
I did order a set for my VFR when it started popping the left fork seal
every 6 months[1]. By the time they arrived, my tame mechanic Jim (the
one who sells nothing except his labour - I use him for the things I
don't have the time, skill or inclination to do myself) took one look at
them & told me to take them back to the dealer.
Turned out he'd fitted a pair in his Bandit and they'd lasted 10 days
before leaking. He got another pair which lasted 14 days, then a third
pair lasted a whole week. At this point he gave up & paid the extra for
OEM seals which lasted until he sold the bike 45k miles later[2].
After his experience I thought "stuff that" & got my money back - the
dealer said that they ended up refunding something like 15 of the 17
sets they sold before they gave up & stopped selling them.
Bob
[1] it turned out to have an ever so slightly bent fork tube - took Jim
and I ages to diagnose the problem as it wasn't apparent when the leg
was rolled along the steel workbench. In the end it took a set of V
blocks & a dial gauge to find it. A new fork leg set me back £40 :-(
[2] I was impressed by that bike - he did around 100k miles on it in 4
years & the only thing that failed were the fork seals. I still see it
around here but it's a bit rough & smoky at 12 years old & somewhere
around 190k miles.
--
Bob Scott
The Older Gentleman
> > So nothing to do with being made to look a fool again (wasn't it
> > something to do with your interpretation of what fibreglass was?) and
> > hoping nobody will notice your new persona, then?
>
> I don't know what fiberglass is? Hah!
>
> Pay close attention now. I was laminating fiberglass for aerospace
> vehicles when you were still making model airplanes. Some of the
> fiberglass that I laid up in 1968 went to the Moon and back in 1969.
But it wasn't a thermosetting plastic? (Or whatever it was pointed out
to be?)
Look, cheer up, chill out. Morphing constantly is the hallmark of a
troll, and you ain't that. You're knowledgeable - with the distressing
tendency to make howling errors and then try to walk away from them. Get
over that hump, and your utility rate will increase a hundred-fold.
The Older Gentleman
> I find it difficult to believe that ToG doesn't enjoy it
> some, for the same reasons.
Oh, I do, because I find him very amusing. As I've said elsewhere, he
knows a thing or two. But not as much as he thinks.
The Older Gentleman
> it turned out to have an ever so slightly bent fork tube - took Jim
> and I ages to diagnose the problem as it wasn't apparent when the leg
> was rolled along the steel workbench. In the end it took a set of V
> blocks & a dial gauge to find it.
I *hate* looking for barely-apparent faults.[1]
>A new fork leg set me back £40 :-(
Cheap, IMHO.
[1] Like yesterday: the headlight went on the 400 Four, which is now our
of winter hibernation. The headlight flasher worked, so it wasn't the
bulb. Got to be the fuse, right? Only the fuse looked A-OK. Hm.
Probably an ignition switch fault. Swapped the fuse anyway, and the
lhight started working. Wtf? Inspected the fuse again. It looked
perfect, but it didn't work. Shook it, and lo and behold, the hairline
and invisible crack widened as the two broken ends pulled apart....
Albrecht
> In article <1176481226.315384.116...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> I'll leave that matter to you and TOG, saying only that I find it
> difficult to believe that you don't enjoy it a bit, given that you don't
> killfile and ignore him if he's really that irritating and
> unknowledgable. I find it difficult to believe that ToG doesn't enjoy it
> some, for the same reasons.
>
> That's all I have to say on that subject.
Unfortunately, Google Groups has no way to killfile trolls like TOG,
who has been infesting and undermining
this group since about 2000. He seems to live to make barbed replies
to newbies' questions.
And any response to the troll only encourages him to argue more. Any
worthwhile information becomes lost
in the noise he generates.
Albrecht
> In article <1176481226.315384.116...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
On Apr 13, 3:37 pm, John Johnson <n...@invalid.com> wrote:
> In article <1176481226.315384.116...@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> I'll leave that matter to you and TOG, saying only that I find it
> difficult to believe that you don't enjoy it a bit, given that you don't
> killfile and ignore him if he's really that irritating and
> unknowledgable. I find it difficult to believe that ToG doesn't enjoy it
> some, for the same reasons.
>
> That's all I have to say on that subject.
Unfortunately, Google Groups has no way to killfile trolls like TOG,
Albrecht
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> But it wasn't a thermosetting plastic? (Or whatever it was pointed out
> to be?)
>
> Look, cheer up, chill out. Morphing constantly is the hallmark of a
> troll, and you ain't that. You're knowledgeable - with the distressing
> tendency to make howling errors and then try to walk away from them. Get
> over that hump, and your utility rate will increase a hundred-fold.
No, if anybody needs to "chill out", it's YOU.
You get your kicks from following people around the web and arguing
with them and trying to get them to defend
points that have been resolved.
The original poster in the thread that you referred to asked about
ways to repair ABS plastic and I explained thoroughly and the OP
thanked everybody and that was the end of it for him.
Albrecht
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> Look, cheer up, chill out. Morphing constantly is the hallmark of a
> troll, and you ain't that. You're knowledgeable - with the distressing
> tendency to make howling errors and then try to walk away from them. Get
> over that hump, and your utility rate will increase a hundred-fold.
OTOH, your continuous argumentative responses are what a troll does
best. You enjoy picking nits, and act as if there is something
inherently wrong with a person who doesn't want to debate unimportant
points with you.
When you turn threads into debates, the useful information gets lost,
but the thread doesn't just stop here, it gets picked up by web-based
forums and users who read those forums have to wade through all your
crap too.
Albrecht
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> [1] Like yesterday: the headlight went on the 400 Four, which is now our
> of winter hibernation. The headlight flasher worked, so it wasn't the
> bulb. Got to be the fuse, right? Only the fuse looked A-OK. Hm.
> Probably an ignition switch fault. Swapped the fuse anyway, and the
> lhight started working. Wtf? Inspected the fuse again. It looked
> perfect, but it didn't work. Shook it, and lo and behold, the hairline
> and invisible crack widened as the two broken ends pulled apart....
What does that have to do with my question about whether anybody has
ever used Leak Proof fork seals?
Why don't you post stuff like that to UKRM, and leave this space for
technical questions and answers?
Or, you could reserve your off-topic anecdote for another time, when
somebody asks "Why doesn't my headlight work?"
Albrecht
> Nah, he's a plain old troll. Probably an old man looking for any sort of
> social contact and excitement to fill his empty life because he's
> alienated everyone else. If he's so sad as to have to change his posting
> address, something's gotta be wrong there.
Yes, there *is* something wrong. The problem is with the troll-filled
web. It's possible for evil-doers to track down innocent people and do
them harm by broadcasting their personal information on the web.
However, gmail doesn't allow miscreants to discover where gmail users
live.
>
> He may know something, but he bullshits so much that you can't tell
> what's true, what's useful, and what's smoke. So listening to him is a
> waste of time.
Reading or responding to what you have to say is usually a waste of
time, because you have so much to learn.
> Most of it isn't plain bullshit, it looks like stuff he half-remembers
> and fakes the rest^W^W^Wfills in the missing details. When you call him
> on it, he says "I didn't say that!" and when you really call him on it
> he disappears for a week and comes back with a new posting address.
If you are challenging other users' responses to the original poster's
question just because you
like to argue and debate, you're misusing this group.
> The main thing is there are people that don't know better and might take
> his BS for truth and break something or end up on an unsafe bike.
The worst thing about your argumentative responses is that useful
information gets lost and web-based forums
pick up on these threads and other users have to wade through your
self-indulgent crap.
I can usually identify a self-absorbed user by the fact that they have
a signature line that indicates their membership
on e-mail lists, the vehicles they own, or some irrelevant quote.
James Clark
I think the lip moves relative to the slider. My brother tried some of these on his TR5MX way back
when. My recollection was that the lip was connected to the outer rim with a flexible diaphragm or
membrane. Initial movement was unencumbered by the static friction of the seal. Once beyond that
initial movement, you had inertia to deal with the increased friction from the tighter seal.
Albrecht
<clark35.at.attglobal....@mousepotato.com> wrote:
> I think the lip moves relative to the slider. My brother tried some of these on his TR5MX way back
> when. My recollection was that the lip was connected to the outer rim with a flexible diaphragm or
> membrane. Initial movement was unencumbered by the static friction of the seal. Once beyond that
> initial movement, you had inertia to deal with the increased friction from the tighter seal.
Leak Proof claims that their seals can be installed with your fingers,
that it "floats" in the seal cavity, rather than being a light press
fit.
Mark Olson
OK, but since at least one poster to this thread has reported leaks
from "Leak Proof" seals, why should I bother buying their product, when
conventional seals from any number of suppliers work fine and last for
years when kept free of foreign material? It's not as if pounding
normal fork seals in place is terribly hard, I usually use a suitable
piece of PVC pipe, and it takes only a few seconds to tap them in
place. Really, it sounds like an answer to a question few people are
asking.
I certainly would question how the outer diameter of such a floating
seal was supposed to hold oil inside the fork if the seal was as
easy to push in/out as they claim.
Albrecht
> Albrecht wrote:
> > Leak Proof claims that their seals can be installed with your fingers,
> > that it "floats" in the seal cavity, rather than being a light press
> > fit.
>
> OK, but since at least one poster to this thread has reported leaks
> from "Leak Proof" seals, why should I bother buying their product, when
> conventional seals from any number of suppliers work fine and last for
> years when kept free of foreign material?
Well, in spite of posting Leak Proof's advertising copy in my original
message, I am NOT touting their product, I'm asking for
consumer experience.
�It's not as if pounding
> normal fork seals in place is terribly hard, I usually use a suitable
> piece of PVC pipe, and it takes only a few seconds to tap them in
> place. Really, it sounds like an answer to a question few people are
> asking.
Yes, I have gently tapped fork seals in with PVC pipe myself, but Leak
Proof claims (or claimed) that their specially designed seal responds
to hydraulic pressure spikes by floating in the seal cavity.
>
> I certainly would question how the outer diameter of such a floating
> seal was supposed to hold oil inside the fork if the seal was as
> easy to push in/out as they claim.
Yes, and I questioned the possibility of leaks around the seal's outer
periphery too.
Mark Olson
> On Apr 16, 5:18�pm, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
> Yes, I have gently tapped fork seals in with PVC pipe myself, but Leak
> Proof claims (or claimed) that their specially designed seal responds
> to hydraulic pressure spikes by floating in the seal cavity.
Well, yes, floating in the seal cavity might make seals a bit easier
to install, however, I am afraid it does absolutely nothing toward
creating a better seal, so it's not really worth much consideration,
somewhat like split CV joint boots, which are easy to install but
don't actually last very well compared to the standard type.
>> I certainly would question how the outer diameter of such a floating
>> seal was supposed to hold oil inside the fork if the seal was as
>> easy to push in/out as they claim.
>
> Yes, and I questioned the possibility of leaks around the seal's outer
> periphery too.
#Kumbayah, kumbayah... I think I'm done with this topic, but if anyone
actually has something interesting to contribute about Leak Proof fork
seals, or any other oil seals for that matter, I am very interested
to hear it, even if it is simply that they worked fine and were easy
to install.
chateau...@btinternet.com
> I think I'm done with this topic, but if anyone
> actually has something interesting to contribute about Leak Proof fork
> seals, or any other oil seals for that matter, I am very interested
> to hear it, even if it is simply that they worked fine and were easy
> to install.
>
Only what I said earlier: I believe in a leak-proof seal like I
believe in a crash-proof plane and an unsinkable ship. Manufacturers
have made extravagant claims for their products since the dawn of
time, and this is no exception.
As for: "fork gaiters may have kept leakage from occuring by excluding
road grime" - there's no "may" about it. Gaiters or shrouds prolong
the life of seals immeasurably, in the same way that an enclosure
prolongs the life of a chain.
I've run a series of old Hondas with shrouded forks, for years and
years (decades, even), and never, repeat *never* had a seal go. I put
gaiters on my brand new RD350 power-valve, and the seals (and
stanchions) were untouched and perfect when I sold the bike eight
years later.
Anyone wanting to give seals a long life should look at gaiters, not
seals. End of story.
Roger Hunt
>
>Anyone wanting to give seals a long life should look at gaiters, not
>seals.
If I put a seal in front of a gator I don't think the seals life
expectancy would be enhanced, on the whole.
>End of story.
>
I bet you a squillion Groats it isn't.
--
Roger Hunt
Wudsracer
>On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:51:34 -0500, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>
>#Kumbayah, kumbayah... I think I'm done with this topic, but if anyone
>actually has something interesting to contribute about Leak Proof fork
>seals, or any other oil seals for that matter, I am very interested
>to hear it, even if it is simply that they worked fine and were easy
>to install.
**********************
Jim adds:
I don't know if you will find this interesting or not, but the
following is a "general" fork seal installation tip that has worked
well for me.
I cut a strip of air filter (foam) material about 1/4" in diameter
and just longer than it takes to complete the circle around the fork
tube (above the seal).
I soak this air filter foam strip in fork oil, and install it
between the seal and the dust wiper.
At first, at least, it pre-lubricates the top lip of the seal, and,
as long as it is in there, it adds another pre-wiper for the fork
tube.
Also, it is very easy to pull up the wiper and clean (and re-oil)
this strip periodically. It seems to help seal life in muddy and/or
sandy cross country races.
I started doing this when I observed that a set of 43mm inverted WP
forks (common on several years of KTMs and GasGas bikes) were "sticky"
until I had ridden for about 10 minutes or so (first ride of the day).
I tried this "pre-lube the seals from the outside" technique, and it
worked. The forks worked as they were supposed to, at the start of a
riding day.
One more tip:
I lube the seals with fork oil, instead of grease, for installation.
They are then less likely to "air lock" and give me trouble seating
properly during installation. (I also use pvc for seal installation
drivers.)
Albrecht
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> Albrecht <von.rae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I think you have it backwards. TOG wants to debate for the sake of the
> > game, rather than discuss the objective merit of supposedly "leak
> > proof" fork seals,
> > which he has never used.
>
> rather in the manner that he does not believe in an unsinkable ship nor
> an uncrashable aeroplane.
This is not a Thomist debate about how many angels can occupy the same
space at the same time, yannow. Fork seals can be purchased, and they
have existence in the material world which is not a matter of faith.
But YOU have NO experience with fork seals made by a company called
"Leak Proof", isn't that correct? Did you notice that the subject line
in this
thread was "Has anbody ever tried Leak Proof forks seals?"
Why answer if you don't believe that there is such a thing as fork
seals manufactured or distributed by Leak Proof?
> Why have you morphed again?