Drain plug stripped--self-tapping plug?
Carlin
I have a 2006 Yamaha FZ6 and decided to do an oil change myself for the
first time. It was a struggle to get that oil filter off, but I finally
put a screwdriver through it and succeeded.
However, I ended up striping the oil pan with the drain plug. *sigh*
I talked to the local Yamaha dealer and they said that I need to replace
the oil pan, which would cost nearly $300 including parts and labor.
(They sell the part for about $45 more than RonAyers.com, and wouldn't
budge on that price, along with $90/hr for 1.5 hrs.) He recommend against
Helicoils or the like, but I'm not sure why. In doing some web research,
I've read about self-tapping drain plugs for cars and bikes alike, and
people seem to accept that this is a simple, cheap, functional alternative
to replacing the pan. Another option is a special expanding rubber plug.
Are these viable options for the long term, or are they just stop-gap
solutions? I have the service manual for this bike, and it doesn't seem
*too* complicated to replace the pan if I'm not missing something. Take
off the exhaust assembly, then I can remove the oil pan itself. I believe
the only complication on the oil pan that I have to also remove is the oil
level sensor. I believe I can leave all the other stuff in that area alone
(except I need to replace the gasket). Should it be pretty simple?
I don't have much experience with mechanics, but am cautiously willing to
learn. (I just take a long time :-) )
Any insight would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Carlin
Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com
>Any insight would be appreciated!
It really goes against my nature to say this, but, after what you did to the
oil drain plug, you're likely to ruin the lower crankcase replacing the oil
pan, so leave the job to the professionals.
--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB.com
http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/tech/200708/1
Fake Name
<u33665@uwe> wrote:
>Carlin wrote:
>
>>Any insight would be appreciated!
>
>It really goes against my nature to say this, but, after what you did to the
>oil drain plug, you're likely to ruin the lower crankcase replacing the oil
>pan, so leave the job to the professionals.
I agree with you, Albrecht. But since the pan is AFU already I think
he should give the automotive self tapping plug a shot.
Anonymous
"Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com" <u33665@uwe> wrote in message
news:76ca781e744e6@uwe...
> Carlin wrote:
>
>>Any insight would be appreciated!
>
> It really goes against my nature to say this, but, after what you did to
> the
> oil drain plug, you're likely to ruin the lower crankcase replacing the
> oil
> pan, so leave the job to the professionals.
>
> --
Yeah, I'll agree completely. Just exactly, how did he
strip the drain plug? Certainly, this could have only
been an accident. After all, anyone willing to drive a
screwdriver through an oil filter for removal, surely
would exercise the greatest caution with the drain plug.
OP.... Take the bike to the dealer, pony up the bux to
get it fixed right, and retire from the oil change trade.
Gary
The Older Gentleman
> Are these viable options for the long term, or are they just stop-gap
> solutions?
I've had a helicoil put in a stripped sump bolt. No worries.
best of all, when I bought a Honda 125 single that turned out to have a
stripped sump bolt (held in place with glue and tape....), I got an
engineering shop to build up the area around the drain hole with alloy
weld, and then drill and re-tap for the plug (the 125 doesn't have a
separate sump pan, you see - the drian bolt goes straight into the
crankcase.
Cost me the equivalent of about 70 bucks, admittedly some years ago.
Don't bother removing the sump pan. Any competent engineer can put in a
helicoil with it in situ. It'll cost a few dollars and yes, it will be a
permanent repair.
--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 SL125
GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....
The Older Gentleman
Er, for sump bolt' in the previous posting, read 'the hole it goes
into'. Obviously.
Rob Kleinschmidt
Older Gentleman) wrote:
> Carlin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> > Are these viable options for the long term, or are they just stop-gap
> > solutions?
>
> I've had a helicoil put in a stripped sump bolt. No worries.
>
> best of all, when I bought a Honda 125 single that turned out to have a
> stripped sump bolt (held in place with glue and tape....), I got an
> engineering shop to build up the area around the drain hole with alloy
> weld, and then drill and re-tap for the plug (the 125 doesn't have a
> separate sump pan, you see - the drian bolt goes straight into the
> crankcase.
>
> Cost me the equivalent of about 70 bucks, admittedly some years ago.
>
> Don't bother removing the sump pan. Any competent engineer can put in a
> helicoil with it in situ. It'll cost a few dollars and yes, it will be a
> permanent repair.
Did you do anything about the aluminum bits left over from
expanding and tapping the sump hole ? My inclination would
be to flush some oil through the crankcase to try to wash
any junk out.
IdaSpode
chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Carlin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>> Are these viable options for the long term, or are they just stop-gap
>> solutions?
>
>I've had a helicoil put in a stripped sump bolt. No worries.
A "Time-Sert" would be a viable alternative to the classic Helicoil:
<snip>
DJ
The Older Gentleman
The Older Gentleman
I knew someone would say that!
Yes, not a bad idea, but given the oil filtration in modern engines,
probably unnecessary. Any swarf will be caught in the filter screen or
filter itself.
Carlin
Thanks very much for the quick replies.
I agree that I need to be careful about what work I decide to do myself.
:-) But, we learn from our mistakes, right? I'm not sure that I want to
throw in the towel on my first mistake.
Right now, I'm thinking along the lines of Fake here--since the pan is
already damaged, I might as well try one of the replacement plug ideas
before replacing the pan.
Regarding Helicoils or Timecerts, I found Timecerts to be $60-80, which is
almost as much as the new pan. I'm thinking a cheaper simple solution
would make more sense, then replace the pan if that fails.
BTW, I stripped it by overtightening. Yes, I should use the torque wrench
I have. I didn't realize it would strip _that_ easily.
Thanks,
Carlin
Dave Emerson
"Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1187291013.3...@b79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Grease on the tap will capture the swarf and gravity is on your side anyway.
--
Dave
ex Motorcycle Maintenance Workshop
http://tinyurl.com/4mhaw
ott...@hotmail.com
junker to practiceon.
Bg
Ken Abrams
"Carlin" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote
> BTW, I stripped it by overtightening. Yes, I should use the torque wrench
> I have. I didn't realize it would strip _that_ easily.
>
Just taking a wild guess here but maybe next time you should use a
wrench/socket with a shorter HANDLE ???? If your hand is pretty much on
top of the socket, it's pretty hard to strip much of anything. Torque
wrench is good too! ;-)
Ken Abrams
<ott...@hotmail.com> wrote
> Your Bike is new, have it fixed professsinally and then buy an old
> junker to practiceon.
Got a chuckle from that!
Is your bike still under warranty?
If yes, and you value that warranty at all, you will think twice before
making any non-standard repairs.
Carlin
> <ott...@hotmail.com> wrote
Those are both good points. I got the bike used and it is out of
factory warranty. However, the previous owner got a third-party warranty
until 2010.
Perhaps I should bite the bullet on the $300 repair in case something
_really_ bad happens down the line, so that I can still use that
warranty...
I really appreciate everyone's input! Lots of good info and suggestions
from all angles.
Carlin
The Older Gentleman
Do you really, really think that repairing a stripped thread will
invalidate a warranty (Apart from if it fails and blows the engine,
which it won't)?
"My brake caliper has disintegrated due to a faulty casting"
"Well, you used a timesert in the sump, didn't you?"
The Older Gentleman
The Older Gentleman
> Regarding Helicoils or Timecerts, I found Timecerts to be $60-80, which is
> almost as much as the new pan
Yes, *but you don't need to remove the pan*. Or anything else. I don't
know whether you need to remove the exhaust to drop the pan on your
bike, but you certainly do on some.
And you quoted $300 for the sump replacement.
A timesert replacement, here, is a few pounds/dollars. Including the
dirlling and tapping, it's maybe Ł20. Anyone charging you $80 is having
a laugh.
Don't fanny about - get the thread repaired, and ride.
Ken Abrams
"The Older Gentleman" <chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote
> Do you really, really think that repairing a stripped thread will
> invalidate a warranty (Apart from if it fails and blows the engine,
> which it won't)?
>
Thank you for that. Now we know that, among your other many and varied
talents, you can also see into the future.
chateau...@btinternet.com
> "The Older Gentleman" <chateau.murray.takethis...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote
>
> > Do you really, really think that repairing a stripped thread will
> > invalidate a warranty (Apart from if it fails and blows the engine,
> > which it won't)?
>
> Thank you for that. Now we know that, among your other many and varied
> talents, you can also see into the future.
I can. I can foresee that you'll make another silly posting. Just for
the record - it won't invalidate the warranty.
Captain Midnight
news:mH3xi.37083$sR4....@fe08.news.easynews.com...
> Hello, all,
>
> Thanks very much for the quick replies.
>
> I agree that I need to be careful about what work I decide to do myself.
> :-) But, we learn from our mistakes, right? I'm not sure that I want to
> throw in the towel on my first mistake.
>
> Right now, I'm thinking along the lines of Fake here--since the pan is
> already damaged, I might as well try one of the replacement plug ideas
> before replacing the pan.
>
> Regarding Helicoils or Timecerts, I found Timecerts to be $60-80, which is
> almost as much as the new pan. I'm thinking a cheaper simple solution
> would make more sense, then replace the pan if that fails.
>
> BTW, I stripped it by overtightening. Yes, I should use the torque wrench
> I have. I didn't realize it would strip _that_ easily.
>
> Thanks,
> Carlin
>
Have never tried it but like their other products.
My preference on that new a bike would be pull the pan and use a Heli-Coil
if enough material is there to oversize it.. Better alignment on a drill
press, no chips left behind and easy to check if the oversizing ran into
porosity. Been a while but the last single sized kit I bought was ~$15.
Smaller size though. May be able to get them at local auto parts store.
Heli-Coil isn't just a fix in aluminum. It's actually stronger than just the
aluminum thread when done properly.
Lubrication greatly reduces the amount of torque needed to tighten it. So
the "feel" is much different than a dry thread.
Keep the rubber side down.
chateau...@btinternet.com
> "Carlin" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
>
> if enough material is there to oversize it.. Better alignment on a drill
> press, no chips left behind and easy to check if the oversizing ran into
> porosity. Been a while but the last single sized kit I bought was ~$15.
> Smaller size though. May be able to get them at local auto parts store.
>
> Heli-Coil isn't just a fix in aluminum. It's actually stronger than just the
> aluminum thread when done properly.
>
Agree, but there's still *no need* to remove the pan.
Timeserts and helicoils are things that I actually enjoy using,
because they're so simple, so tough (as you say), and effect a
permanent repair. In fact, you've reminded me that I've only got one
or two left, so I'd better get another kit, I think.
Rob Kleinschmidt
Older Gentleman) wrote:
I could be wrong, but does'nt the filter sit downstream
from the pump so the pump can pressurize it ? More
of a theoretical/religious objection than anything else.
You'd probably get away with it with no problem.
Also, it's way easy to drill out a hole slightly off from 90
degrees. Probably not a big deal for a drain plug with
crush washer, but can be an enormous problem in some
helicoil applications such as for long cylinder studs.
Considering the OP's skill level, I think he might do
better to drop the pan, bring it to a shop that knows
what they're doing, then figure out how to get the
pan bolted back in place. Probably less challenging
than a helicoil.
The Older Gentleman
>
> Considering the OP's skill level, I think he might do
> better to drop the pan, bring it to a shop that knows
> what they're doing, then figure out how to get the
> pan bolted back in place.
Given his skill level, I don't think he ought to touch the thing
himself, not at all.
OH-
> On Aug 16, 1:57 pm, chateau.murray.takethis...@dsl.pipex.com (The
> Older Gentleman) wrote:
>> Rob Kleinschmidt <Rkleinsch1216...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > On Aug 16, 11:46 am, chateau.murray.takethis...@dsl.pipex.com (The
>> > Older Gentleman) wrote:
>> > > Don't bother removing the sump pan. Any competent engineer can put in
>> > > a
>> > > helicoil with it in situ. It'll cost a few dollars and yes, it will
>> > > be a
>> > > permanent repair.
>>
>> > Did you do anything about the aluminum bits left over from
>> > expanding and tapping the sump hole ? My inclination would
>> > be to flush some oil through the crankcase to try to wash
>> > any junk out.
>>
>> I knew someone would say that!
>>
>> Yes, not a bad idea, but given the oil filtration in modern engines,
>> probably unnecessary. Any swarf will be caught in the filter screen or
>> filter itself.
>
> I could be wrong, but does'nt the filter sit downstream
> from the pump so the pump can pressurize it ? More
> of a theoretical/religious objection than anything else.
> You'd probably get away with it with no problem.
<snip>
Murphy said that if anything can go wrong, it will.
A colleague had an old Honda XL size up real bad. During the
post mortem we found the oil pump was broken in about three
ways (drive, rotors and housing).
The culprit was a small bit of wire. This wire had the
distinctive helicoil cross section. The sump plug hole had been
helicoiled and it seems whoever did that forgot to break of
the "drive tang" (or whatever it's called) on the insert, it
must then have been broken off when the plug was put in.
By some unlucky chance the oil pump tried to eat the wire and
failed. With no oil supply the engine was a write off.
--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / WR450F FL#44 OTC#489 UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00 Remove hat to answer by mail
Ken Abrams
"OH-" <olehat....@comhem.sehat> wrote
> Murphy said that if anything can go wrong, it will.
>
And at the worst possible time!
> By some unlucky chance the oil pump tried to eat the wire and
> failed. With no oil supply the engine was a write off.
>
On a newer bike, a repair of this type could NOT affect your warranty.
No way, couldn't happen.
Remember Murphy!!!
Rob Kleinschmidt
> "Rob Kleinschmidt" <Rkleinsch1216...@aol.com> wrote innews:1187374782....@a39g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> The sump plug hole had been
> helicoiled and it seems whoever did that forgot to break of
> the "drive tang" (or whatever it's called) on the insert, it
> must then have been broken off when the plug was put in.
> By some unlucky chance the oil pump tried to eat the wire and
> failed. With no oil supply the engine was a write off.
Dunno if a magnetic drain plug would have saved him
or not. Seems like it might have.
I now work hard at not leaving myself opportunities to
destroy the bike with brain farts like that. Probably
a good reason to take the pan off, do the repair,
then inspect it again the next morning before reinstalling.
Very sad story.
Carlin
> Very sad story.
If I take the pan off, I might as well just put on a new one instead of
repair the threads. I'm thinking to go this route.
In the near-term, I'm goign to try a self-tapping drain plug to keep things
in for now. Then, I'll order the drain pan, gasket, etc. and schedule some
time to work on it later.
Yes, I know you all think that I shouldn't touch a bolt on the bike,
but I'd like to learn. I may employ my cousin who, although is not too
familiar with bikes, has done a lot of his own mechanic work on cars. I
will use a torque wrench!
Thanks, everyone,
Carlin
Mark Olson
> If I take the pan off, I might as well just put on a new one instead of
> repair the threads. I'm thinking to go this route.
This is where your lack of experience shows. If you go to all the
trouble of taking off the pan, and the pan is otherwise undamaged,
there is no reason whatsoever to replace it. A properly executed
repair (very easy with the pan off) of the drain hole, using either
a Time-Sert or a Helicoil, is permanent and will never leak. This
is a quality repair, and is much cheaper than replacing the whole
pan.
> In the near-term, I'm goign to try a self-tapping drain plug to keep things
> in for now. Then, I'll order the drain pan, gasket, etc. and schedule some
> time to work on it later.
If it were mine, I would leave the pan on, do the permanent repair
in situ, and not worry about a few chips in the bottom of the pan.
If you had taken off a sump or two you would know that there are a
fair amount of little metal pieces sitting in there already. If
the prospect of swarf bothers you, JB Weld a strong magnet into a
hole drilled into the drain plug.
> Yes, I know you all think that I shouldn't touch a bolt on the bike,
> but I'd like to learn. I may employ my cousin who, although is not too
> familiar with bikes, has done a lot of his own mechanic work on cars. I
> will use a torque wrench!
Nothing wrong with you working on it, that's the only way to learn.
Many of us who work on our own bikes made our beginner mistakes on
cheaper things like lawnmower engines or crappy cheap bikes or cars.
You're starting on a somewhat more valuable vehicle, but it's yours
to do with as you wish.
--
'01 SV650S '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
Timo Geusch
> Carlin wrote:
>
>> If I take the pan off, I might as well just put on a new one instead of
>> repair the threads. I'm thinking to go this route.
>
> This is where your lack of experience shows. If you go to all the
> trouble of taking off the pan, and the pan is otherwise undamaged,
> there is no reason whatsoever to replace it. A properly executed
> repair (very easy with the pan off) of the drain hole, using either
> a Time-Sert or a Helicoil, is permanent and will never leak. This
> is a quality repair, and is much cheaper than replacing the whole
> pan.
And as the pan seems to be alloy, I'd even go as far as saying that it'd
be an improvement over the original. Especially if the OP is using a
Time-Sert...
--
Morini Corsaro 125 | CB450K4 | XL250 Motosport x2 | 900SSD | K1100LT
Laverda SF2 | Harley FXD BOTAFOF #33 TWA#10
The UKRM FAQ: http://www.ukrm.net/faq/index.html
"Je profite du paysage" - Joe Bar
The Older Gentleman
> If I take the pan off, I might as well just put on a new one instead of
> repair the threads. I'm thinking to go this route.
You're silly.
>
> In the near-term, I'm goign to try a self-tapping drain plug to keep things
> in for now.
You're mad. And you run the risk of cracking the sump pan and damaging
it severely.
Carlin
> Carlin wrote:
> If it were mine, I would leave the pan on, do the permanent repair
> in situ, and not worry about a few chips in the bottom of the pan.
> If you had taken off a sump or two you would know that there are a
> fair amount of little metal pieces sitting in there already. If
> the prospect of swarf bothers you, JB Weld a strong magnet into a
> hole drilled into the drain plug.
Hmm. Well, the thing is, from what I could tell, a full Time-Sert kit
(with all the bits) costs almost as much as a new pan. And, because of my
inexperience, it seems it'd be easier for me to swap the pan instead of
trying to properly install a Time-Sert which seems like it takes some
skill with a drill to do correctly. Or is it actually pretty simple?
All of the dealers I've talked to indicate that the inserts are a bad idea.
One actually suggested it as his first suggestion, but when I asked
questions, he went on to say that, if it were his bike, he'd replace the
pan. He said that the Time-Sert might work--in fact, probably would work.
But seemed to think there was a chance that it might not. He quoted
$120-150 for the shop to do the Time-Sert.
>> Yes, I know you all think that I shouldn't touch a bolt on the bike,
>> but I'd like to learn. I may employ my cousin who, although is not too
>> familiar with bikes, has done a lot of his own mechanic work on cars. I
>> will use a torque wrench!
> Nothing wrong with you working on it, that's the only way to learn.
> Many of us who work on our own bikes made our beginner mistakes on
> cheaper things like lawnmower engines or crappy cheap bikes or cars.
> You're starting on a somewhat more valuable vehicle, but it's yours
> to do with as you wish.
True. I've thought about buying a $300-500 non-running bike off Craigslist
and working on it, but never got around to it.
There are so many options on where to go on this simple problem I'm going
nuts. :-)
Thanks for everyone's insights, though. It's certainly better to make a
decision with more information than less.
Carlin
The Older Gentleman
> Hmm. Well, the thing is, from what I could tell, a full Time-Sert kit
> (with all the bits) costs almost as much as a new pan.
lxpikopkxcdplsdkl
(That's me banging my head on a keyboard)
Yes, but *DON'T BUY THE KIT AND DON'T DO THE WORK YOURSELF*!!
Because (a) a full kit is pricey and (b) you'll fuck it up.
Take it to a competent engineer who will do the job, with the sump pan
in situ, for a few bucks.
Sheesh.
Mark Olson
> Carlin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Hmm. Well, the thing is, from what I could tell, a full Time-Sert kit
>>(with all the bits) costs almost as much as a new pan.
>
>
> lxpikopkxcdplsdkl
>
> (That's me banging my head on a keyboard)
>
> Yes, but *DON'T BUY THE KIT AND DON'T DO THE WORK YOURSELF*!!
>
> Because (a) a full kit is pricey and (b) you'll fuck it up.
>
> Take it to a competent engineer who will do the job, with the sump pan
> in situ, for a few bucks.
YES!
Unfortunately on this side of the pond, people who fit the "competent
engineer"[1] description are quite thin on the ground.
[1] Terminology differences aside, here they'd more commonly be found
working in a machine shop oriented toward bikes/ATVs/snowmobiles rather
than a general bike repair shop. This local guy fits the description
pretty well:
--
'01 SV650SK1 '99 EX250-F13 '98 ZG1000-A13
OMF #7
The Older Gentleman
> The Older Gentleman wrote:
> > Carlin <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Hmm. Well, the thing is, from what I could tell, a full Time-Sert kit
> >>(with all the bits) costs almost as much as a new pan.
> >
> >
> > lxpikopkxcdplsdkl
> >
> > (That's me banging my head on a keyboard)
> >
> > Yes, but *DON'T BUY THE KIT AND DON'T DO THE WORK YOURSELF*!!
> >
> > Because (a) a full kit is pricey and (b) you'll fuck it up.
> >
> > Take it to a competent engineer who will do the job, with the sump pan
> > in situ, for a few bucks.
>
> YES!
>
> Unfortunately on this side of the pond, people who fit the "competent
> engineer"[1] description are quite thin on the ground.
>
It is quite extraordinary, but I think that in Britain we have more
little men in born coats, beavering away in small workshops, than
anywhere else on the planet. Except possibly India.
You can get *anything* for a classic vehicle made here. It's all cottage
industry stuff - when it comes to translating the industry into mass
production, we lose the plot.
Look at Formula One racing cars - with the exception of Ferrari and
maybe Honda, virtually the entire industry is based in the UK.
And in one county in the UK, as well: Oxfordshire. I often wonder how it
is that we can be so amazingly talented at making and mending specialist
vehicles, but when we try and build them en masse, we wind up with
Rovers.
Rick Cortese
> Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
<snip>
> It is quite extraordinary, but I think that in Britain we have more
> little men in born coats, beavering away in small workshops, than
> anywhere else on the planet. Except possibly India.
>
> You can get *anything* for a classic vehicle made here. It's all cottage
> industry stuff - when it comes to translating the industry into mass
> production, we lose the plot.
>
> Look at Formula One racing cars - with the exception of Ferrari and
> maybe Honda, virtually the entire industry is based in the UK.
Demographics have changed with the times in the USA. I mean we used to
make fun of the British liberal arts school system when compared to the
German technical schools where you actually learned something useful,
then we followed the same British model.
We used to be quite rural and self reliant population. Lots of pay,
little work jobs along with our agriculture going corporate meant less
technical training and more lawyers.
Several of my friends have started vineyards in the last decade. I have
spent more time working on their stuff then I have on my own. I enjoy
the work but they are entrenched in their idealized agrarian worlds. I
tell them "The first thing you need is a barn/work shop to keep your
stuff out of the rain and have a dry place to work instead of in the
dirt or mud. Some of the stuff they do is IMO borderline insane: They
will do things like haul a tire 16 miles to town because they refuse to
buy an air compressor.
Things are quite upside down now. Instead of the first thing you need
being a place to work on your equipment followed by the equipment
followed by the planting, even a tasting room comes first now.
The home mechanic has been under attack for decades as a major source of
polution.
If you get a chance you may want to take a look at Varmit Al's web site.
He is kind of the last of a dying breed.
http://www.varmintal.com/apopt.htm
His memories growing up echo my own.
Rick
The Older Gentleman
> f you get a chance you may want to take a look at Varmit Al's web site.
> He is kind of the last of a dying breed.
> http://www.varmintal.com/apopt.htm
What a lovely site. Bookmarked, and thank you for the url.
--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125
Fake Name
>There are so many options on where to go on this simple problem I'm going
>nuts. :-)
>
>Thanks for everyone's insights, though. It's certainly better to make a
>decision with more information than less.
>
>Carlin
You're taking some heat for stripping the threads on an oil pan and
some heat is well deserved. But I think some of the comments are a
little over the top here and in a.m.sportbike too. You are not the
first person to strip a thread and you will not be the last.
Anyone who has done enough wrenching will have to admit to cutting his
hands, burning the tips of his fingers, spilling used oil, and so on.
There is a learning curve to all this and you're going to do fine with
a bit more time. I bet as long as you live and no matter how many
cars/bikes you own you'll never strip another oil pan. Personally,
I've stripped the Philips heads of drywall screws while working at odd
angles etc but I am far from incompetent. There is a reason that the
stores sell #2 bits in 10-packs. My wife used to own a car that when
we bought it came with a fouled drain plug. It was stripped by jiffy
lube. It wasn't the threads that were stripped it was the corners
rounded off. Some "professional" had used an air tool either to
remove or reinstall it and it wouldn't move for me. I filed two
opposite sides flat and used an open end wrench to take it off and
replaced it with a new one.
When I cleaned out the carbs on my first bike the jackass that had
been in them before me stripped every single Philips head screw on and
in the carbs. The bike came with the receipt from the shop where a
"professional" had done the work. I had to use a combination of PB
blaster and easy outs to remove them but replaced them with capped hex
screws. I didn't want to over tighten them so I put lock washers on
where I could so they would hold when simply just past snugged and
anti-seize on the sync screws.
I didn't own a torque wrench when I first started working on cars. I
bought one when I bought a SAAB as my second car at age 20. I now
have four, three clicky types and one beam. There is enough overlap
that I can check them against each other. Even the best Snap-On
clicky one has a 4% error factor. The beam type needs lots of space
to use and unless you can look straight down on it, parallax will keep
you from being able to read it.
Some were discussing magnets to get out debris. That's fine for iron
but I've not seen the magnet that can get out copper or aluminum.
Before you try to remove the exhaust, squirt a bit of pb blaster on
the bolts the day before. If any of the bolts seem stuck, don't give
into the temptation to simply grab a cheater bar and twist. Try to
tighten them a bit then back them off. If that fails get a
non-ratcheting tool, like a box end wrench or a 3/8 drive tool and
work them back and forth. Even though they will seem not to move the
back and forth will work them loose. If that fails get a small hammer
and tap on the end of the tool in the direction of removal. When I
say tap I mean about a 1-2 inch swing the tapping will take some time
but it has never failed me to loosen up a stubborn bolt. Do not swing
for the fences just little tap tap taps will do.
You seem willing to do some reading so here are a few things to check
out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling
http://www.sacskyranch.com/antiseize.htm
http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_extractscrew.htm
Mark Olson
> Some were discussing magnets to get out debris. That's fine for iron
> but I've not seen the magnet that can get out copper or aluminum.
Doh! Yep, I was being a bit dim, suggesting a magnetic drain plug
for catching aluminum swarf.
The Older Gentleman
> You're taking some heat for stripping the threads on an oil pan and
> some heat is well deserved.
<snip>
Did you take Advanced Lessons in Tedious?
Fake Name
>Did you take Advanced Lessons in Tedious?
I know you have to post a reply to every post in every thread but
couldn't you add something useful or at least funny?
The Older Gentleman
Only when you do, sweeetie. And your exaggerations don't come over as
remotely amusing or apposite.
Fake Name
chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>Fake Name <fake...@fake.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >Did you take Advanced Lessons in Tedious?
>>
>> I know you have to post a reply to every post in every thread but
>> couldn't you add something useful or at least funny?
>
>Only when you do, sweeetie. And your exaggerations don't come over as
>remotely amusing or apposite.
I've read enough of your posts to know how much bandwidth would be
wasted were I to follow you into the realm of personal insults.
I'll leave you with this final thought and will give you the last
word.
What does it say about a man when he strips out his own oil pan,
"I've had a helicoil put in a stripped sump bolt. No worries."
"Er, for sump bolt' in the previous posting, read 'the hole it goes
into'. Obviously."
and then the same man sits in judgment over someone else for making
the same mistake?
"Given his skill level, I don't think he ought to touch the thing
himself, not at all."
"Apposite" isn't the word I would choose. "Hypocrisy" is, however.
The last word will be yours, old man.
The Older Gentleman
> "I've had a helicoil put in a stripped sump bolt. No worries."
> "Er, for sump bolt' in the previous posting, read 'the hole it goes
> into'. Obviously."
I bought the bike with it like that. The dolt who did it had secured the
bolt with epoxy resin and tape and it wasn't leaking, so I only noticed
it when I came to change the oil....
>
> and then the same man sits in judgment over someone else for making
> the same mistake?
>
> "Given his skill level, I don't think he ought to touch the thing
> himself, not at all."
>
> "Apposite" isn't the word I would choose. "Hypocrisy" is, however.
Oh dear, oh dear. See above. And I even mentioned the fact that I hadn't
done it, in my original posting.
>
> The last word will be yours, old man.
See above. Are we feeling foolish now, for having not bothered to read a
posting and then having jumped to the wrong conclusion? If not, then
fuck off.
OH-
"The Older Gentleman" <chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in
news:1i320pg.bnhef39ewyvgN%chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com...
>
> You can get *anything* for a classic vehicle made here. It's all cottage
> industry stuff - when it comes to translating the industry into mass
> production, we lose the plot.
I have this acquaintance who is racing old Triumphs. In his quest for more
power and more expensive bits to blow up he has visited a few of these
establishments. He even coined a generic name for them.
Before he actually visited, he was impressed not only by the products
but also by the company names on the lines of "Imperial GP supplies"
or "Wilsons Formula racing development".
Now he calls them "Garden shed engineering".
The Older Gentleman
> "The Older Gentleman" <chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in
> news:1i320pg.bnhef39ewyvgN%chateau.murra...@dsl.pipex.com...
> >
> > You can get *anything* for a classic vehicle made here. It's all cottage
> > industry stuff - when it comes to translating the industry into mass
> > production, we lose the plot.
>
> I have this acquaintance who is racing old Triumphs. In his quest for more
> power and more expensive bits to blow up he has visited a few of these
> establishments. He even coined a generic name for them.
>
> Before he actually visited, he was impressed not only by the products
> but also by the company names on the lines of "Imperial GP supplies"
> or "Wilsons Formula racing development".
>
> Now he calls them "Garden shed engineering".
<VVBG>
I like that. The thing is, it's mostly good stuff.
--
BMW K1100LT 750SS CB400F CD250 CB125 SL125
Wudsracer
**************************************************
Funny that you should mention a shop in Anoka, MN.
There is another shop right in that area of Anoka, where I do a lot
of mail order business. Road Track & Trail on 633 East Main Street.
http://www.yellowpages.com/info-LMS68384978/Road-Track-Trail-Incorporated/maps
.
In addition to being one of the premier GasGas franchised dealers in
the US, Road Track & Trail will work on older street bikes. A lot of
their work comes as referrals from the local "big 4" dealers (who
refuse to work on older bikes).
Last year, while attending the MN round of the AMA MX series, I paid
them a visit. Jack Bondus is good people, and as I watched him work,
he impressed me as being one heck of a motorcycle mechanic..
*************************
Personally, I agree with the advise which recommended the OP take off
his oil pan and repair the threads. (or have someone else do it for
him) This will allow the repair (and it's swarf) to be completely
clean, and also make sure that the thread insert is exactly the length
needed for a good job, and not a bit longer.
Good Riding and Bike Repairing to you!
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
Mark Olson
>>On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:19:43 -0500, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>>http://www.billbune.com/
>
> **************************************************
> Funny that you should mention a shop in Anoka, MN.
> There is another shop right in that area of Anoka, where I do a lot
> of mail order business. Road Track & Trail on 633 East Main Street.
> http://www.yellowpages.com/info-LMS68384978/Road-Track-Trail-Incorporated/maps
> .
> In addition to being one of the premier GasGas franchised dealers in
> the US, Road Track & Trail will work on older street bikes. A lot of
> their work comes as referrals from the local "big 4" dealers (who
> refuse to work on older bikes).
> Last year, while attending the MN round of the AMA MX series, I paid
> them a visit. Jack Bondus is good people, and as I watched him work,
> he impressed me as being one heck of a motorcycle mechanic..
I drop into RT&T from time to time, I try to buy the occasional
oil filter, etc. there. I used to get my tires mounted there
before I got my Harbor Freight tire machine. Jack always has
a kind word for me even if I don't give them a heck of a lot of
business. They are one of the few places I know of who are
willing to work on older bikes. Jack just knows me as the guy
with an SV and a Connie...
Jack should *really* take a peek at his web page sometime.
The premises are not much to look at either, there's basically
no sign visible from the street, but they apparently do enough
word-of-mouth business so putzing with signs doesn't appear to be
a high priority. Not a problem for me, I just wish my barber hadn't
moved out of the same building, I'd get to drop in at RT&T more
often.
PS Why does the smackovermotorsports forums have the RT&T logo and
phone number at the top of the page?
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/index.php
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/images/misc/vbulletin3_smackover.gif
Carlin
> You're taking some heat for stripping the threads on an oil pan and
> some heat is well deserved. But I think some of the comments are a
> little over the top here and in a.m.sportbike too. You are not the
> first person to strip a thread and you will not be the last.
I totally agree that I deserve some of the flames. I made a mistake.
Oops. Thanks for your understanding. :-)
> I didn't own a torque wrench when I first started working on cars. I
> bought one when I bought a SAAB as my second car at age 20. I now
> have four, three clicky types and one beam. There is enough overlap
> that I can check them against each other. Even the best Snap-On
> clicky one has a 4% error factor. The beam type needs lots of space
> to use and unless you can look straight down on it, parallax will keep
> you from being able to read it.
Yes, I'll have to get a good clicky torque wrench.
> Some were discussing magnets to get out debris. That's fine for iron
> but I've not seen the magnet that can get out copper or aluminum.
Good point. I would either flush it well with lots of oil (i.e.,
everything I drain out of it before the operation), or remove the oil pan
as others have suggested.
> Before you try to remove the exhaust, squirt a bit of pb blaster on
> the bolts the day before. If any of the bolts seem stuck, don't give
> into the temptation to simply grab a cheater bar and twist. Try to
> tighten them a bit then back them off. If that fails get a
> non-ratcheting tool, like a box end wrench or a 3/8 drive tool and
> work them back and forth. Even though they will seem not to move the
> back and forth will work them loose. If that fails get a small hammer
> and tap on the end of the tool in the direction of removal. When I
> say tap I mean about a 1-2 inch swing the tapping will take some time
> but it has never failed me to loosen up a stubborn bolt. Do not swing
> for the fences just little tap tap taps will do.
Very nice. I appreciate you sharing your experience with this advice!
It'll surely help when I get around to removing the pan (if I do), or any
other work I need to do on anything, really.
> You seem willing to do some reading so here are a few things to check
> out:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling
> http://www.sacskyranch.com/antiseize.htm
> http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_extractscrew.htm
Ah, very nice. I'll save these off so I can review them when the day
comes!
For now, I've gone with a single oversize drain plug. It seems to be
holding, but I have no idea whether I've damaged the threads completely.
I'll see at my next oil change and see what needs to be done at that point.
I know all my options now! Thanks everyone!
Carlin
Wudsracer
**********************************************
>On Mon, 20 Aug 2007 14:36:42 -0500, Mark Olson <ols...@tiny.invalid> wrote:
>I drop into RT&T from time to time, I try to buy the occasional
>oil filter, etc. there. I used to get my tires mounted there
>before I got my Harbor Freight tire machine. Jack always has
>a kind word for me even if I don't give them a heck of a lot of
>business. They are one of the few places I know of who are
>willing to work on older bikes. Jack just knows me as the guy
>with an SV and a Connie...
>
>Jack should *really* take a peek at his web page sometime.
>
>http://rttgasgas.com/
>
>The premises are not much to look at either, there's basically
>no sign visible from the street, but they apparently do enough
>word-of-mouth business so putzing with signs doesn't appear to be
>a high priority. Not a problem for me, I just wish my barber hadn't
>moved out of the same building, I'd get to drop in at RT&T more
>often.
>
>PS Why does the smackovermotorsports forums have the RT&T logo and
>phone number at the top of the page?
>
>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/index.php
>
>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/images/misc/vbulletin3_smackover.gif
***************************************************
After I closed my shop on June 1, 2006, Jack took over the care and
feeding of the web site's message board, "Talking Smack". Another
friend, David (IdaSpode on here), does the actual work with the
message board. I post there under my own name.
Jack set up his web site originally, but it crashed hard.
I've been trying to get Jack to have David build another web site for
RT&T. He sure needs it.
Do you ever ride in the dirt?
Every year around the first of March, I host a winter fun trail riding
get-together for the Northern riders to be able to come down to
Arkansas and get dirty. (Look Up "Wudi Ride" on the message board.)
Come join us in 2008.
IdaSpode
<dirtbike_sma...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>Jack should *really* take a peek at his web page sometime.
>>
>>http://rttgasgas.com/
<snip>
>>PS Why does the smackovermotorsports forums have the RT&T logo and
>>phone number at the top of the page?
>>
>>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/index.php
>>
>>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com/bb/images/misc/vbulletin3_smackover.gif
>***************************************************
>
>After I closed my shop on June 1, 2006, Jack took over the care and
>feeding of the web site's message board, "Talking Smack". Another
>friend, David (IdaSpode on here), does the actual work with the
>message board. I post there under my own name.
>
>Jack set up his web site originally, but it crashed hard.
>I've been trying to get Jack to have David build another web site for
>RT&T. He sure needs it.
I've asked Jack several times. At the VERY LEAST, get some contact
info on there...
> Wudsracer/Jim Cook
DJ
Mark Olson
> Do you ever ride in the dirt?
> Every year around the first of March, I host a winter fun trail riding
> get-together for the Northern riders to be able to come down to
> Arkansas and get dirty. (Look Up "Wudi Ride" on the message board.)
> Come join us in 2008.
Not if I can help it (with my current bikes) but I learned in the
dirt years ago starting with a '66 Honda S65 that was my "everything
bike", dirt trails, roads, and I almost t-boned a cop car the one
time I rode it on the street! A couple of years later I regularly
rode on a friend's bikes, everything from a QA50 up to and including
a Yamaha DT360.
I've been considering a dirt bike for a while but haven't gotten round
to it yet.
James Clark
> <ott...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Your Bike is new, have it fixed professsinally and then buy an old
>> junker to practiceon.
>> Bg
>
> Agreed. Get a professional to repair the thread.
>
>
Use a pipe tap and insert one of these:
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2837151/2/istockphoto_2837151_brass_bib_cock.jpg