800cc bikes
robo...@googlemail.com
to their resources and experience in building engines. Who agrees? Who
disagrees? Of the five major teams
(Honda,Yamaha,Ducati,Suzuki,Kawasaki), who is likely to be as fast as
this year or faster, and who is likely to be (comparatively) slower?
bram stolk
Suzuki can leverage their GSXR-750 experience?
The others do not have a 750 bike.
Then again... Suzuki is doing pneumatic valves now in mgp, so that
is very different from GSXR technology.
Also: pneumatic valves give higher benefits at higher revs.
Revs will go up when shrinking engine capacity.
So... all in all... suzuki may be a good tip.
Bram
>
T3
"bram stolk" <b.s...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:5685d$44eea50a$188419b3$32...@news.chello.nl...
Like no one else knows Jack about pneumo stuff, huh?
Let's see, how 'bout Yam?(Toyota) Hmm, maybe Ducati?(Ferarri) Well there's
always Honda?(HRC) Who else? Oh yeah, Kaw, but didn't they have a 750 once?
So yeah, I see your point, "then again," maybe not...
Julian Bond
23:49:29
Ducati will be fast out of the gate. Didn't they lead the first three
laps of the first MotoGP race?
Yamaha will be on the ball.
Suzuki have been doing lots of preparation this year. But the result
will be inconsistent.
Honda will throw money at the problem and use a solution unlike anyone
else's. And we won't get to see it till very late in the day. They'll be
fast from day one. The KR team will initially have a better chassis than
Honda.
Kawasaki will be late.
Illmor will race but won't be competitive.
Overall lap times will drop by one second from this year's laps. Within
18 months they'll be back to the same speeds.
Same old, same old.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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*** Just Say No To DRM ***
T3
"Julian Bond" <julia...@voidstar.com> wrote in message
news:MmBOY5Lz...@jblaptop.voidstar.com...
> "robo...@googlemail.com" <robo...@googlemail.com> Thu, 24 Aug 2006
> 23:49:29
>>I've read that Honda are likely to have a big advantage next year due
>>to their resources and experience in building engines. Who agrees? Who
>>disagrees? Of the five major teams
>>(Honda,Yamaha,Ducati,Suzuki,Kawasaki), who is likely to be as fast as
>>this year or faster, and who is likely to be (comparatively) slower?
>
> Ducati will be fast out of the gate. Didn't they lead the first three laps
> of the first MotoGP race?
>
> Yamaha will be on the ball.
>
> Suzuki have been doing lots of preparation this year. But the result will
> be inconsistent.
>
> Honda will throw money at the problem and use a solution unlike anyone
> else's. And we won't get to see it till very late in the day. They'll be
> fast from day one. The KR team will initially have a better chassis than
> Honda.
>
> Kawasaki will be late.
>
> Illmor will race but won't be competitive.
>
> Overall lap times will drop by one second from this year's laps. Within 18
> months they'll be back to the same speeds.
>
> Same old, same old.
Pretty much...
Julian Bond
>"Julian Bond" <julia...@voidstar.com> wrote in message
>> Same old, same old.
>
>Pretty much...
But it'll sound better.
Mark N
> "robo...@googlemail.com"
>> to their resources and experience in building engines. Who agrees? Who
>> disagrees? Of the five major teams
>> (Honda,Yamaha,Ducati,Suzuki,Kawasaki), who is likely to be as fast as
>> this year or faster, and who is likely to be (comparatively) slower?
> Ducati will be fast out of the gate. Didn't they lead the first three
> laps of the first MotoGP race?
>
> Yamaha will be on the ball.
>
> Suzuki have been doing lots of preparation this year. But the result
> will be inconsistent.
>
> Honda will throw money at the problem and use a solution unlike anyone
> else's. And we won't get to see it till very late in the day. They'll be
> fast from day one. The KR team will initially have a better chassis than
> Honda.
>
> Kawasaki will be late.
>
> Illmor will race but won't be competitive.
>
> Overall lap times will drop by one second from this year's laps. Within
> 18 months they'll be back to the same speeds.
>
> Same old, same old.
Still fighting the last war, eh, Julian? Things WILL be different this time:
Ducati didn't lead the first three laps of the first MotoGP race, they
didn't lead a single lap that year, because they didn't even compete the
first year. They were fast out of the box when they did arrive, but that
was mostly because they didn't observe the unofficial horsepower cap
that the Japanese factories did, just like Aprilia didn't. Ducati won in
their 6th race of that '03 season, but then didn't win again until the
2nd half of '05, and that was thanks to Bridgestone. When Honda and
Yamaha reacted, they pretty much buried Ducati.
Honda had a big leg up last time, and didn't dominate more only because
of the horsepower cap and the state of the tires. Still, they won 29 of
32 races in the first two years, 20 of those by Rossi. This time there's
no horsepower cap, but Honda will likely not have a one cylinder
advantage either, so will have to make their power the same way everyone
else does. They don't have to do as much combustion chamber redesign
because of this, but probably are doing significant redesign anyway,
probably focused on the valve gear for higher revs.
The MotoGP battle today is on tires and electronics, and there are
reasons to believe that Honda hasn't been running the edge one might
think in electronics - Edwards said Yamaha was much farther ahead in '05
than Honda had been in '04. But that might be an indication of the pace
of advancement and the difference between a factory bike and a lease
bike at that time as well.
Suzuki was way behind in the beginning in part because they had pushed
the technological limits too far, but now they have managed to sort the
electronics and get their pneumatic valves to work, increasing
horsepower and making the bike manageable. They won't lose that
knowledge. But will they continue to run a V4?
Kawasaki started very late and didn't even have that much of a
commitment early on, running a Suter-built chassis and a pumped-up SB
motor. They've moved way beyond that, the program now fully in-house
and run by different people, and they also have the consistent input of
Nakano. They shouldn't lose much ground either.
Roberts said he thought more than electronics it's the current tires
that have made it so easy for the 250 guys to move up and be on the pace
this year. Tires that good make the job on the factories easier, I would
think, because they don't have to manage to tire weaknesses as they must
have had to do in 02-03. Equal weight and lower horsepower means no new
demands on those tires, but the Michelin-Bridgestone-Dunlop tire war
continues, so the tires should be relatively more advanced than the
bikes, I'd guess.
Much depends on Honda, because Ducati and Yamaha seem to have built
smaller versions of their current bikes and already have them in public
on the track. Honda will not build a V5, and anything less than four
cylinders is a massive risk. Their Brno bike has mostly been a failure
to date, but it's not clear if that's a conceptual failure or just a
failure to support the project adequately. Probably more of the latter,
but still troublesome. They like to go their own way and make a splash,
so I don't really expect a very conventional V4. On the other hand, they
are probably tired of losing, and it's easier to win with proven
technology.
So I don't expect a restart similar to 02-03, rather more of what we've
been seeing this year. And the winners and losers will be determined
more by the state of the tires than the conversion to 800cc. If the
distribution of the tires stays as is and Bridgestone continues their
advance, then Suzuki and Kawasaki will look much better than some think,
and Ducati will continue to push toward an eventual championship. What
would be very interesting would be Roberts switching to the 'stones -
with Honda power and their chassis work, that could be the championship
formula. But that assumes they get working motors in time to develop
that chassis properly, which could be their problem anyway.
Andrew
I have no idea who is using what regarding engine configs.
I heard Honda had a V3 is this so? Will Team Roberts still get Honda
motors?
I imagine Yami and Kawi will be inlines...?
Duc is a V4, I think. Suzuki - V4?
Curious.
--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Toddler
T3
"Andrew" <yogig.nspamm.no.spam.@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4l8spq...@individual.net...
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