TL1000 Recalled
Jim O'Keeffe
American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed. Go to Motorcycle Online
at http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily97/day0496.html for more info.
-Jim
Erik Astrup
Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup 1995 Triumph Tiger
Team Iguana Racing (Ret)
http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/
Need to know when a roadrace is going to be on TV??
http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/racing/tv.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Burns
Erik Astrup wrote:
>
> On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>
> >American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
> >5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed.
> Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and do
_something_.
Would you rather they brush it off as rider error?
Patrick Burns Burns Racing Machine
pat...@lifenet.com http://www.lifenet.com/brm/brm.htm
Two Brothers Racing, Yoshimura, Sudco, Fast by Ferracci
Patrick Burns
Erik Astrup wrote:
>
>Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>
> > American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured
> > through 5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed.
snip
> Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and
do _something_. Would you rather they brush it off as rider
error? You don't see Honda issuing triple clamps with more
offset to RR owners?
Erik Astrup
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:50:15 -0400, Patrick Burns <pat...@lifenet.com> wrote:
>Erik Astrup wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>>
>> >American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
>> >5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed.
>snip
>> Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
>
>Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and do
>_something_.
>Would you rather they brush it off as rider error?
Not at all. Im glad their doing something, but from what I read it
doesn't address the root of the *problem*. It's a band aid.
One guy in the UK (a letter to Bike magazine) said he installed 3 dampers on his
TL and it didn't help. I dunnooo....
Erik Astrup
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 19:56:19 -0400, Patrick Burns <pat...@lifenet.com> wrote:
>Erik Astrup wrote:
>>
>>Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>>
>> > American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured
>> > through 5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed.
>snip
>> Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
>
>Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and
>do _something_. Would you rather they brush it off as rider
>error? You don't see Honda issuing triple clamps with more
>offset to RR owners?
No, I wish they had! Cost me $650 for an OMT clamp on my 93!
But don't you think this TL issue is a bit more "serious" than the
RR "nervous" front end?
Stimpy
On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:31:23 GMT, eas...@mother.com (Erik Astrup)
wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>
>>American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
>>5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed. Go to Motorcycle Online
>>at http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily97/day0496.html for more info.
>
>Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
"Fix" has absolutely nothing to do with it.
This is just one more example of a company cowering in the face of
the American legal system. The mere mention of the word "lawsuit"
sends most buisnesses running for cover, and most rodentia (read
lawyers) scurrying from thier holes.
Russ Parker
In article <33a2745a....@news.internetmci.com>, eas...@mother.com
says...
> >Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and
> >do _something_. Would you rather they brush it off as rider
> >error? You don't see Honda issuing triple clamps with more
> >offset to RR owners?
>
> No, I wish they had! Cost me $650 for an OMT clamp on my 93!
>
> But don't you think this TL issue is a bit more "serious" than the
> RR "nervous" front end?
One of my buddies sold his CBR900RR and bought a TL. He says that the TL
is much more stable than his 900RR ever was. Personally, I've never had
any handling problems at speed with my TL, regardless of conditions.
It's more solid-feeling than any other bike I've ridden. My humble
opinion is that Suzuki is issuing the dampers as a litigation-preventer,
not an accident-preventer.
Russ
--
Note: Return address altered to deflect junk e-mail.
Delete the leading "Z" in the address when replying.
Russell Parker
D-18382 Cary, NC
Red, White & Blue Batwing 116
1996 Yamaha XV750 Virago
1997 Suzuki TL1000S Super Sport
"Russell Parker: Skydiver, Motorcyclist, Supporter of personal freedom...
Also a psychotic gun-toting freak!" - Wesley Minnich
RCook323
>> One guy in the UK (a letter to Bike magazine) said he installed 3
dampers on his
TL and it didn't help. I dunnooo.... <<
Funny thing. All the bike mag's here in the States road tested this bike.
Not nice Sunday afternoon cruises down a flat, straight highway. But
rather ripping thru corners on the race tracks. I read nothing from any
of the articles that mentioned anything about this problem. These tests
where done long before 5/31/97.
Either Suzuki is paying a lot of money to keep everyone's mouth's shut.
Or, maybe something else needs to be factored in (the rider maybe).
Rick Cook
Black Sunshine Racing
Benjamin Justin Cain
Russ Parker (Zru...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
:
: One of my buddies sold his CBR900RR and bought a TL. He says that the TL
: any handling problems at speed with my TL, regardless of conditions.
: It's more solid-feeling than any other bike I've ridden. My humble
: opinion is that Suzuki is issuing the dampers as a litigation-preventer,
: not an accident-preventer.
Thanks for a real first-person account of experience. But I'm afraid we're
going to have to ask you to leave now. You see, this conversation is
for those who have only READ about the bike and heard rumors.
"The great tragedy of science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis
by an ugly fact..."
- T.H. Huxley -
--
Ben Cain : Biker Scum - Yellowshirt Brigade #514
AMA HRCA TMGP CMRA/WERA DoD # 1/137 KoK3
1990 VFR750F "Deal's Gimp"
1989 YSR50/3
http://www.users.cts.com/king/d/drlubell/bscum.html
"We got road, we got time, so we're outta here..."
- Meat Puppets -
Benjamin Justin Cain
RCook323 (rcoo...@aol.com) wrote:
:
: Either Suzuki is paying a lot of money to keep everyone's mouth's shut.
: Or, maybe something else needs to be factored in (the rider maybe).
I'm with you. I'm sick of the Witch Hunt. I still want a TL.
Larry I. Wallerstein
As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
being done in Europe. It's an innovative bike going through some new
technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as witnessed
by another rider? Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
legal system.
Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
Larry
97 T509 Speed Triple
In <33a0eb2a....@news.zippo.com> rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy)
writes:
Jeff and Brenda Sussna
In article <33A08B...@lifenet.com>, pat...@lifenet.com wrote:
> Erik Astrup wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
> >
> > >American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
> > >5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed.
> snip
> > Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
>
> Look at it like this: They had the balls to recall them and do
> _something_.
> Would you rather they brush it off as rider error?
I guess the consequences are a little more exteme than a floating point
coprocessor bug.
Jeff Sussna
Larry I. Wallerstein
Wow. And even better, the WHOLE WORLD is cowering in the face of the
AMERICAN legal system. English lawyers have sued for wrongful death
where one guy had a 50 mph straight line tank slapper in front of
witnesses. The French and German Suziki folks have recalled their
motorcycles to investigate. And now a Japan based company has engaged
in a WORLDWIDE recall of their own bikes, in what I think is a good
faith effort by a company that cares about its customers to find out
what's wrong and fix it.
But, as one of the "rodentia", thanks for attributing such WORLD WIDE
power to me, and my American Legal System. Just knowing how powerful I
am, and how world wide companies are cowering in fear lest I bring a
lawsuit, will make parking the motorcycle and going in to work on
Monday ever so much easier.
Wait til everyone else hears how powerful you just made me.
Regards
"Rodentia"
Larry
97 Triumph T509 Speed Triple
In <33a0eb2a....@news.zippo.com> rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy)
writes:
>
>On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:31:23 GMT, eas...@mother.com (Erik Astrup)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com>
wrote:
>>
>>>American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
>>>5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed. Go to Motorcycle
Online
>>>at http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily97/day0496.html for more
info.
>>
>>Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
>
Benjamin Justin Cain
Larry I. Wallerstein (l...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
...and people here have no reason to doubt the integrity of the US legal
system, right? Shit - the fact that I can't get a hot cup of coffee from
McDonald's in the morning anymore is enough to embitter me...
: shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
: wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
: mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as witnessed
: by another rider? Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
Great. Now could we have a couple more facts, please? I'm SO sick of
getting the whole story about the recall one bit at a time. None of the
online mags I could find have anything on it (the REASON for the recall
and the story of what's happened overseas, NOT just a notice of the
recall itself...), nor have ANY of the periodicals to which I subscribe.
Those include Roadracing World and Moto. Tech., Cycle World, Motorcycle
Consumer News, American Motorcyclist and Red Rider. Someone in here
mentioned an article in a Brit mag. I don't have access to it. Is that
the only bloody publication in the world that carries the story right
now?
...and a "straight line 50 mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an
experienced rider"??? I would agree that "allegedly" is the key word here.
Stimpy
l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein) wrote:
>As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
>was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
>of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
>being done in Europe.
Ok, picker of nits, lets substitute "litigious societies" for
" American legal system" if a global abhorration makes you feel
better. And I'm sure that you are indeed under the employ of US Suzuki
to state "facts" with such certainty.
> It's an innovative bike going through some new
>technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
>shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
>wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
>mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as witnessed
>by another rider?
If I'd had known about this lawsuit, you can bet your ass I'd be
harping to someone about it. I've had tank slappers at 10mph (JR50)
and hardly think a recall is in order. Since you started with the name
calling, I suggest that if you're too much of a wimp to handle a
TL1000, do not buy one. But please do not try to limit my ability to
do so.
> Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
>get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
>nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
>legal system.
"Alleged facts" if you are referring to those gleaned from your
"triple dissertation".
I believe that lawsuits are one of the biggest threats to motorcycle
racing, and motorcycling in general. They have already destroyed the
recreational aviation industry, making personal aircraft available
only to the wealthy, and are threatening to do the same to
motorcycling.
>Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
Hmmm, sounds like my post struck a very personal nerve since it was
relatively short and criticized only lawyers. On second thought,
maybe I did start the name calling with the "rodentia" thing. If so, I
apologize for including all lawyers in my "dissertation". Most lawyers
are not ambulance chasers and do provide a service to society. If,
however, you do not fall into this category- Larry, you can, KISS MY
ASS
>Larry
>97 T509 Speed Triple
Stimpy
1978 TS185
Cosmo
Maybe that so called "experienced rider" should have had his hands on
the handlebars which of course would allow the manufacturers to
produce innovative new sportbikes that handle a little quicker than
roto-tiller without the threat of a lawsuit. If the lawyers (that
means YOU Larry) have their way we all will be riding 3-wheeled
Harley's with ABS and Air bags (until, of course the air bag kills a
kid). Hey Larry, DON'T BUY A TL1000, but please don't tell the rest
of us what we can ride because of your Ralph Nadaresk safety paranoia
and contingency based lawsuits to back it up.
Have a nice day and keep BOTH hands on the bars!
On 14 Jun 1997 20:41:28 GMT, l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein)
wrote:
>As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
>was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
>of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
>being done in Europe. It's an innovative bike going through some new
>technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
>shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
>wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
>mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as witnessed
>by another rider? Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
>get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
>nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
>legal system.
>
>Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
>
>Larry
>97 T509 Speed Triple
>
>
>
Larry I. Wallerstein
Ben:
#1 I use the term "allegedly" on purpose. I haven't ridden the bike,
and this could be a "witch hunt".
#2 My information came from the June 12 Daily News in Motorcycle
Online, and from one or two of the English motorcycle mags, but I don't
keep them after I read them, so I can't tell you which. Perhaps
someone else here can.
#3 I actually a FAN of Suzuki. I think you should, by all means get a
TL 1000. I was just suggesting that for safety sake, you at least look
into whether it will need any modifications for safety. If you can't
tell, of the Japanese manufacturers, at the moment, I think the Suzuki
engineers are the most innovative. Good luck on your purchase.
#4 I personally work hard as a lawyer, and always in the best
interests of my clients, and I get ticked at the knee jerk name calling
and stupid comments that I see regularly in print. That was the reason
for the sarcastic comment about the latest bozo to decide that lawyers
are "rodentia". Pretty hard to just reach through the screen and break
his neck for him. But I should have kept my comments to private
e-mail, and not wasted bandwidth here. My apologies.
Regards,
Larry
T509
In <5nvosg$9...@news.tamu.edu> bjc...@scully.tamu.edu (Benjamin Justin
Cain) writes:
>
>Larry I. Wallerstein (l...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>: As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the
U.S.
>
>...and people here have no reason to doubt the integrity of the US
legal
>system, right? Shit - the fact that I can't get a hot cup of coffee
from
>McDonald's in the morning anymore is enough to embitter me...
>
>: shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
>: wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line
50
>: mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as
witnessed
>: by another rider? Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let
you
>
Larry I. Wallerstein
Yeah. Right.
So, let's see. The killfile must be around here, somewhere......
"Stimpy"
In <33ad3ef7...@news.zippo.com> rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy)
writes:
>
>l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein) wrote:
>
>>As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
>>was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
>>of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
>>being done in Europe.
> Ok, picker of nits, lets substitute "litigious societies" for
>" American legal system" if a global abhorration makes you feel
>better. And I'm sure that you are indeed under the employ of US Suzuki
>to state "facts" with such certainty.
>
>> It's an innovative bike going through some new
>>technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
>>shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
>>wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
>>mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as
witnessed
>>by another rider?
>
>If I'd had known about this lawsuit, you can bet your ass I'd be
>harping to someone about it. I've had tank slappers at 10mph (JR50)
>and hardly think a recall is in order. Since you started with the name
>calling, I suggest that if you're too much of a wimp to handle a
>TL1000, do not buy one. But please do not try to limit my ability to
>do so.
>
>> Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
>>get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
>>nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
>>legal system.
>
> "Alleged facts" if you are referring to those gleaned from your
>"triple dissertation".
> I believe that lawsuits are one of the biggest threats to motorcycle
>racing, and motorcycling in general. They have already destroyed the
>recreational aviation industry, making personal aircraft available
>only to the wealthy, and are threatening to do the same to
>motorcycling.
>
>>Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
>
> Hmmm, sounds like my post struck a very personal nerve since it was
>relatively short and criticized only lawyers. On second thought,
>maybe I did start the name calling with the "rodentia" thing. If so, I
>apologize for including all lawyers in my "dissertation". Most lawyers
>are not ambulance chasers and do provide a service to society. If,
>however, you do not fall into this category- Larry, you can, KISS MY
>ASS
>
>>Larry
>>97 T509 Speed Triple
>
>Stimpy
>1978 TS185
Erik Astrup
On Fri, 13 Jun 1997 06:52:26 GMT, rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy) wrote:
>On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 22:31:23 GMT, eas...@mother.com (Erik Astrup)
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:25:06 -0700, Jim O'Keeffe <joke...@ti.com> wrote:
>>
>>>American Suzuki has recalled all TL1000S bikes manufactured through
>>>5/31/97. Steering dampers will be installed. Go to Motorcycle Online
>>>at http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcdaily97/day0496.html for more info.
>>
>>Steering damper eh? Wow. Now there's a "fix".
> "Fix" has absolutely nothing to do with it.
> This is just one more example of a company cowering in the face of
>the American legal system. The mere mention of the word "lawsuit"
>sends most buisnesses running for cover, and most rodentia (read
>lawyers) scurrying from thier holes.
I don't see how that explains the fact that it's a world wide recall....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup - Team Iguana Racing (Ret)
1995 Triumph Tiger
Erik Astrup
On 14 Jun 1997 20:31:23 GMT, bjc...@scully.tamu.edu (Benjamin Justin Cain)
wrote:
>Russ Parker (Zru...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
>:
>: One of my buddies sold his CBR900RR and bought a TL. He says that the TL
>: is much more stable than his 900RR ever was. Personally, I've never had
>: any handling problems at speed with my TL, regardless of conditions.
>: It's more solid-feeling than any other bike I've ridden. My humble
>: opinion is that Suzuki is issuing the dampers as a litigation-preventer,
>: not an accident-preventer.
>
>Thanks for a real first-person account of experience. But I'm afraid we're
>going to have to ask you to leave now. You see, this conversation is
>for those who have only READ about the bike and heard rumors.
Are the letters to the editor of "Bike" magazine from some TL owners
who all reported nasty "events" related to the TL also just "rumor" ?
Benjamin Justin Cain
Erik Astrup (eas...@mother.com) wrote:
:
: Are the letters to the editor of "Bike" magazine from some TL owners
: who all reported nasty "events" related to the TL also just "rumor" ?
Until someone (perhaps YOU???) posts the issue number or month or
SOMETHING that would allow the rest of us to look it up - or MUCH
BETTER yet, post some actual transcriptions of the letters themselves
- so we can all have a look, you bet your sweet ass it's still rumor.
All I've heard so far is that a "50 mph straight line tank slapper"
supposedly killed an experienced rider. I'll file that claim directly
under the catagory headed: Horse Shit. A crash resulting from the
above conditions, ESPECIALLY with an experienced rider aboard, can
be attributed to rider error, plain and simple. And if he died from
complications arising from the crash or something, I can hardly blame
Suzuki. I've been off a bike at 50+ as have quite a few in here I
imagine, and I have a hard time believing that his death under the
circumstances wasn't a freak accident.
...now if his death were due to the tank slapper causing the clip-ons
to punch holes in the tank and simultaneuosly ignite the tank's
contents, sending hot shrapnel into his cheast and head and burning
his face off, THEN I'd say we have a serious design flaw and Suzuki
might owe his survivors some money...
But somehow I doubt that that's the way it went down. No pun
intended.
Larry I. Wallerstein
This post made me wonder where I was getting the idea from that the
TL1000 was having a handling problem. Keeping in mind that I still
think this is a great bike, I thought I might address this post, and
Ben Cain's request for more facts.
Bike Magazine--May 1997-- page 100
"Mad, Bad and dangerous to know" "..but show the TL a bumpy road and
things start to get a bit less lovely. Like the GSX-R the TL spends a
lot of its time bordering on serious instability. What's more worrying
is it comes in with no warning..........(snipped to save bandwith,
there's more)
Rider Magazine--May 1997--page 43
"Throw in some bumps, however, and the Suzuki's front end would get a
little out of shape, and the Ducati would jar the heck out of the
rider."
CycleWorld Magazine April 1997 -- page 46
"We lauded the TL's handling following its introduciton at Miami's
Homestead Motorsports Complex, but between the bumpy surface and the
triangulated front Dunlop, it was a wobbler at Willow. As with the
Honda, we pulled the fork tubes up in the tiple-clamps, and while this
improved matter significantly, the TL's chassis never felt entirely
composed."
Superbike Magazine-- July 97 --page 34
"Ol' Slapper"
".....No, the problem lies in the TL's habit of going into a proper
tankslapper when you don't expect it, when you're only on half or even
off the power.......It feels like the separate rear shock/damper ujnit
has either too much compression damping, or too little rebound
damping.....(they go on)"
Motorcycle International Magazine -- June 97 --page 8
"Slap Happy Suzukis" "Reports of the Suzuki TL1000s consummate
friskiness now abound-including the terminal tank slapper of North
Yourks rider Simon Carolan-Evans, killed by a resultant 60 mph get
off....."
There's more in other magazines, as well, but this is the gist of the
stuff.
And, as far as I know, there are no lawyers in the USA who have filed
any lawsuits, or threatened any lawsuits in connection with the recall
efforts of Suzuki.
Regards,
Larry
(now returning to the world of riding, and leaving this conversation
for good-- it just isn't any fun)
97 T509 Triumph Speed Triple
In <19970614155...@ladder02.news.aol.com> rcoo...@aol.com
(RCook323) writes:
>
>
>>> One guy in the UK (a letter to Bike magazine) said he installed 3
>dampers on his
>TL and it didn't help. I dunnooo.... <<
>
>Funny thing. All the bike mag's here in the States road tested this
bike.
>Not nice Sunday afternoon cruises down a flat, straight highway. But
>rather ripping thru corners on the race tracks. I read nothing from
any
>of the articles that mentioned anything about this problem. These
tests
>where done long before 5/31/97.
>
>Either Suzuki is paying a lot of money to keep everyone's mouth's
shut.
>Or, maybe something else needs to be factored in (the rider maybe).
>
Larry I. Wallerstein
I find it interesting that people would rather blame lawyers for bad
press coverage of a motorcycle, than attempt to look into the facts.
I've posted the press coverage. I'm not aware of any American lawyers
filing any lawsuits against Suzuki related to the TL1000s, and I'm
certainly not going to. After the several broken bones I've absorbed
riding motorcycles, I'm pretty sure they are dangerous, but I still
intend to ride. The Ducati 900 SS that I used to break five or so of
my bones is still in business, and I didn't sue anyone over my poor
riding that day. (I did thank Arai for saving my life with their fine
helmets) And I don't want any brand of motorcycle to go away, either.
However, when my T509 was delivered, it had a fuel gasket leak, which
was recalled and replaced, as it was dangerous. I appreciated Triumph
acknowledging and fixing the problem. I think that is what Suzuki is
trying to do, as well. I just don't get how this turns into bashing
American lawyers, who in my experience do the very best they can to
help people on a regular basis, and get a ration of sh*t, anyway.
Regards,
Larry
T509 Speed Triple
In <33a5324e...@netnews.worldnet.att.net> kko...@hotmail.com
(Cosmo) writes:
>
>Maybe that so called "experienced rider" should have had his hands on
>the handlebars which of course would allow the manufacturers to
>produce innovative new sportbikes that handle a little quicker than
>roto-tiller without the threat of a lawsuit. If the lawyers (that
>means YOU Larry) have their way we all will be riding 3-wheeled
>Harley's with ABS and Air bags (until, of course the air bag kills a
>kid). Hey Larry, DON'T BUY A TL1000, but please don't tell the rest
>of us what we can ride because of your Ralph Nadaresk safety paranoia
>and contingency based lawsuits to back it up.
>
>Have a nice day and keep BOTH hands on the bars!
>
> On 14 Jun 1997 20:41:28 GMT, l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein)
>wrote:
>
>>As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
>>was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
>>of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
>>being done in Europe. It's an innovative bike going through some new
>>technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
>>shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
>>wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
>>mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as
witnessed
>>by another rider? Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
>>get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
>>nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
>>legal system.
>>
>>Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
>>
>>Larry
>>97 T509 Speed Triple
>>
>>
>>
>>In <33a0eb2a....@news.zippo.com> rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy)
>>writes:
>>>
Cosmo
On 15 Jun 1997 21:04:48 GMT, l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein)
wrote:
Now Larry... lets just say you reached through the screen and broke
his neck, don't you worry that he might have a rodent on retainer...
>Ben:
SNIP
>#4 I personally work hard as a lawyer, and always in the best
>interests of my clients, and I get ticked at the knee jerk name calling
>and stupid comments that I see regularly in print. That was the reason
>for the sarcastic comment about the latest bozo to decide that lawyers
>are "rodentia". Pretty hard to just reach through the screen and break
>his neck for him. But I should have kept my comments to private
>e-mail, and not wasted bandwidth here. My apologies.
>
>Regards,
>Larry
>T509
>
>
>
snip
Greg Henderson
In article <5o1lh7$d...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein) writes:
|> Yeah. Right.
|>
|> So, let's see. The killfile must be around here, somewhere......
|> "Stimpy"
Stimpy apologized and made some interesting points, yet you decide
to stick your head in the sand. What gives?
|> In <33ad3ef7...@news.zippo.com> rrjp...@hotmail.com (Stimpy)
|> writes:
|> >
|> >l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein) wrote:
|> >
|> >>As much as I hate to interrupt your paranoia about lawsuits, the U.S.
|> >>was the last of the major motorcycle sales countries to have a recall
|> >>of the TL1000, and by the way, it was in response to investigations
|> >>being done in Europe.
|> > Ok, picker of nits, lets substitute "litigious societies" for
|> >" American legal system" if a global abhorration makes you feel
|> >better. And I'm sure that you are indeed under the employ of US Suzuki
|> >to state "facts" with such certainty.
|> >
|> >> It's an innovative bike going through some new
|> >>technology revamping which I'm confident Suzuki will fix. And
|> >>shouldn't you be harping about the English lawyers who filed the
|> >>wrongful death lawsuit over there in response to the straight line 50
|> >>mph tankslapper that allegedly killed an experienced rider as
|> witnessed
|> >>by another rider?
|> >
|> >If I'd had known about this lawsuit, you can bet your ass I'd be
|> >harping to someone about it. I've had tank slappers at 10mph (JR50)
|> >and hardly think a recall is in order. Since you started with the name
|> >calling, I suggest that if you're too much of a wimp to handle a
|> >TL1000, do not buy one. But please do not try to limit my ability to
|> >do so.
|> >
|> >> Now that you have a couple of facts, I'll let you
|> >>get back to your regularly scheduled dissertaion about how there's
|> >>nothing wrong with the bike, just a big conspiracy by the American
|> >>legal system.
|> >
|> > "Alleged facts" if you are referring to those gleaned from your
|> >"triple dissertation".
|> > I believe that lawsuits are one of the biggest threats to motorcycle
|> >racing, and motorcycling in general. They have already destroyed the
|> >recreational aviation industry, making personal aircraft available
|> >only to the wealthy, and are threatening to do the same to
|> >motorcycling.
|> >
|> >>Sheeesh......what a pain in the ass.
|> >
|> > Hmmm, sounds like my post struck a very personal nerve since it was
|> >relatively short and criticized only lawyers. On second thought,
|> >maybe I did start the name calling with the "rodentia" thing. If so, I
|> >apologize for including all lawyers in my "dissertation". Most lawyers
|> >are not ambulance chasers and do provide a service to society. If,
|> >however, you do not fall into this category- Larry, you can, KISS MY
|> >ASS
|> >
|> >>Larry
|> >>97 T509 Speed Triple
|> >
|> >Stimpy
|> >1978 TS185
|>
--
Greg Henderson | Ride For Somethin'
ZX-6E | http://www.insites.ca/ride/
GS1100E (4 sale) | Remove "i"s for e-dress
Erik Astrup
On 16 Jun 1997 03:06:03 GMT, bjc...@mulder.tamu.edu (Benjamin Justin Cain)
wrote:
>Erik Astrup (eas...@mother.com) wrote:
>:
>: Are the letters to the editor of "Bike" magazine from some TL owners
>: who all reported nasty "events" related to the TL also just "rumor" ?
>
>Until someone (perhaps YOU???) posts the issue number or month or
>SOMETHING that would allow the rest of us to look it up - or MUCH
>BETTER yet, post some actual transcriptions of the letters themselves
>- so we can all have a look, you bet your sweet ass it's still rumor.'
Are you thick?
You think a bunch of us are just making up this article and letters??? I have
nothing better to do than invent a "Bike" article. Whoooo brother....
I think Julian already posted the synopsis of the article in a previous message.
Im pretty sure I still have the copy of the mag at home, but Im sure as hell
not going to be spending my time typing it in for you. Plus this way I get to
enjoy your conspiracy theory even more.
Perhaps I only dreamed that I read it.... Maybe I really wasn't in a Heathrow
airport where I *thought* I bought the damn thing. Maybe your right, it's all
rumor, this is all made up.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup 1995 Triumph Tiger
Team Iguana Racing (Ret)
Benjamin Justin Cain
Erik Astrup (eas...@mother.com) wrote:
:
: Are you thick?
: nothing better to do than invent a "Bike" article. Whoooo brother....
You're right. And I apologize. I fully believe now that the TL actually
kills people. I believe that it's unsafe. I believe everything else
you've said since day one of this thread.
Wow... just believing what a few people tell you and accepting it as
truth is so much easier than thinking for myself. I wonder why I've never
tried it until now... Thanks Erik!
Stimpy
On 16 Jun 1997 06:13:19 GMT, l...@ix.netcom.com(Larry I. Wallerstein)
wrote:
<snip>
>And, as far as I know, there are no lawyers in the USA who have filed
>any lawsuits, or threatened any lawsuits in connection with the recall
>efforts of Suzuki.
>
>Regards,
>Larry
>(now returning to the world of riding, and leaving this conversation
>for good-- it just isn't any fun)
>
>97 T509 Triumph Speed Triple
">My friend has been killed on a suzuki tl 1000.
>He suffered severe tank slap on a straight road and was not speeding.
>It is emerging that there are severe design faults with this bike.
>Does anyone have any experience of this as we are trying to build a case here ?."
The above was posted to alt.motorcycle.sportbike a week or two ago.
Too bad I'm in Larry's killfile 'cause I wouldn't mind a wager on
weather or not a lawsuit will be filed in the US.
Cosmo
Ummm, Whats a killfile? :-]}
Russ Parker
In article <33a879a4...@news.mother.com>, eas...@mother.com says...
> >Thanks for a real first-person account of experience. But I'm afraid we're
> >going to have to ask you to leave now. You see, this conversation is
> >for those who have only READ about the bike and heard rumors.
>
>
> Are the letters to the editor of "Bike" magazine from some TL owners
> who all reported nasty "events" related to the TL also just "rumor" ?
Congratulations, Erik. You just proved Benjamin's point.
David Nixon
RCook323 (rcoo...@aol.com) wrote:
> >> One guy in the UK (a letter to Bike magazine) said he installed 3
> dampers on his
> TL and it didn't help. I dunnooo.... <<
> Funny thing. All the bike mag's here in the States road tested this bike.
> Not nice Sunday afternoon cruises down a flat, straight highway. But
> rather ripping thru corners on the race tracks. I read nothing from any
> of the articles that mentioned anything about this problem. These tests
> where done long before 5/31/97.
The problems that have been reported by U.K. testers and owners concern
the TLs handling quirks when ridden along Public roads - some of which,
have a surface quite unlike modern (especially Japanese) race tracks.
David N.
Stimpy
On Mon, 16 Jun 1997 18:22:11 GMT, eas...@mother.com (Erik Astrup)
wrote:
>Are you thick?
>You think a bunch of us are just making up this article and letters??? I have
>nothing better to do than invent a "Bike" article. Whoooo brother....
>
>I think Julian already posted the synopsis of the article in a previous message.
>Im pretty sure I still have the copy of the mag at home, but Im sure as hell
>not going to be spending my time typing it in for you. Plus this way I get to
>enjoy your conspiracy theory even more.
>
>Perhaps I only dreamed that I read it.... Maybe I really wasn't in a Heathrow
>airport where I *thought* I bought the damn thing. Maybe your right, it's all
>rumor, this is all made up.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Erik Astrup 1995 Triumph Tiger
>Team Iguana Racing (Ret)
>http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/
>Need to know when a roadrace is going to be on TV??
>http://www.mother.com/~eastrup/racing/tv.htm
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then again maybe you shouldn't believe everything you read. Did you
believe the Audi5000 scare? How about them darned killer chevy
pickups? Pinto flashbacks? Global warming, ozone holes, alar (I think
thats the name) and worst of all those damn killer dairy products.
Thats right. A man, in Washington I believe, is suing the state's
dairy farmers because of his high colesteral levels. Claims that dairy
products are worse than tobacco.
Everything is relative. I am going to assume that the Tl1000 is a
very quick handler and is prone to headshake. However I'm sure it is
better handling at any pace than a FLHTCHL Fat Boy or an Aspencade.
Yet no one is screaming for the recall of these bikes. If you don't
want to by sharp handling bikes that have power enough to lift the
front, fine. But please do not spread propaganda which will tend to
hasten the removal of these bikes from a dealer near me.
PS- If I'm ever lucky enough to get a TL1000 I will assume the cost
and responsibility of fitting a steering damper, if it needs one. To
force Suzuki to do it reminds me of the effort to force automakers to
retrofit rear shoulder belts to cars built BEFORE shoulder belts were
even available.
If it turns out to be oucontrollable at any speed (sorry couldn't
help myself) I will take responsibility for not doing my homework.
This is not the case though. There is no evil lurking within, no
unexorsizable chassis gremlins. Just a very quick chassis with a very
capable motor. You always have, and always will trade trail for
stability.
Fred Farzanegan
Okay, kids- let's get back to motorcycle racing. The TL
as it sits is a marginal racebike (I lapped one at Talladega
in it's inaugural endurance debut). I am confident that
it will turn out to be a good one, but the other racing
TL I've seen (John Berry's) had a good deal of handling problems
as well related to the rear end squatting. Personally, I'd
like to race one next year (if enough people get scared,
I might be able to get one for cheap!)
Steering dampers? If you race without one, you're asking
for trouble.
Any other non-racing issues related to the TL, especially
lawyers, rodents, neck-breaking, killfiles, etc., please
move to the specially created newsgroup for those topics:
rec.motorcycles
-fred
Larry I. Wallerstein
Hey, Fred:
Tried to get you by private e-mail, but couldn't figure out your real
return address.
I, for one, promised to stop posting on the TL1000/lawyer bashing
thread, and reserve my comments to racing or racing related posts. I
have, and will honor that.
Regards,
Larry
T595
In <5o656f$s...@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>
fredf%i.wish.a.lawyer.would.sue.spammers%@bnr.ca (Fred Farzanegan)
writes:
Norm Lastovica
While I dunno what the roads and race tracks are like in other
countries (I only ride and race here in the US [so far anyhow]), I would
expect that the test riders in other parts of the work (outside of the
U.K.)
would have been able to find some bumpy roads to test on as well.
My TL doesn't seem to have the problem of the headshake that scares
the british testers so much, but it could easily be the roads that we
ride
on. Here in the US, Jim Lindeman (Lindeman engineering in california)
has
worked on Jim Lickwar's rear shock and, from the sidelines, it certainly
seems
to have helped that bike quite a lot. Jim won the sound of thunder (aka
BEARS)
race at grattan on saturday and grattan is among the choppiest tracks
that
I've been on in a while.
DMclynn
Sorry to the guy who wanted to keep this racing unrelated conversation out
but I want to make one simple point:
I live in the UK and over here we have had a lot of scares, not of bad
handling bikes so much as beaurocrats trying to stop us riding bikes at
all. These bastards exist - don't believe they don't - and our having
rabid scares amongst our own biking community only gives them ammunition.
Bikes are powerful. Thats why we love them. Hypersports bikes are
viciously competetive with each other and if the TL1000 is flighty, we all
know it by now. Personally I'm hoping to pick up a cheap one from all this
scaremongering ;-)
Keep the needle in the red people!
Chris Moll
Russ Parker <Zru...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Personally, I've never had
>any handling problems at speed with my TL, regardless of conditions.
>It's more solid-feeling than any other bike I've ridden.
I spoke to someone yesterday about his TL.
He'd already fit a steering damper to his bike before the Suzuki recall.
His comment was that he believed there were two distinct problems with his
particular bike. One was a high speed instability, which he believes
is the problem Suzuki is addressing; what he found was that his front
and rear wheels were substantially out of line. When he fixed that
(by changing spacers on both wheels) that problem seemed to go away.
The other was general extreme twitchiness, not unlike the GSXR750,
apparently due to steep steering and high torque. A steering damper
helped with that.
For me anyway this isn't a witch hunt; the TL1000 is a completely new
design and I personally would be surprised if it didn't have _some_
bugs. I believe this is compounded by the fact that an apparent design
goal of this bike was to make it _feel_ [quick-intimidating-twitchy]
(like the original 900RR and the new GSXRs) rather than just to make it
work well.
If I'm convinced the bugs didn't exist or have been fixed, then I'd
seriously consider buying one.
Chris Moll
Cosmo <kko...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Maybe that so called "experienced rider" should have had his hands on
>the handlebars which of course would allow the manufacturers to
>produce innovative new sportbikes that handle a little quicker than
>roto-tiller without the threat of a lawsuit.
I really don't understand what all the excitement is about. The Suzuki
either does or does not have real handling problems that need to be fixed.
If it does, we'd be pretty foolish to ignore the evidence that is put
forward. If it does not, fine, then we can dismiss that now-discredited
evidence and move on.
Chris Moll '92 gooF2, '89 FZR 400, '72 P1800ES Volvo AFM#653
---
A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature
replaces it with. -- Tenessee Williams
Jeff Sussna
In article <5o656f$s...@bcrkh13.bnr.ca>,
fredf%i.wish.a.lawyer.would.sue.spammers%@bnr.ca (Fred Farzanegan) wrote:
> Okay, kids- let's get back to motorcycle racing.
Perhaps someone could write an expert system that figures out when a thread
has reached its degeneration half-life, and then kills the thread. :-)
Jeff Sussna
Stimpy
fredf%i.wish.a.lawyer.would.sue.spammers%@bnr.ca (Fred Farzanegan)
wrote:
>
>Okay, kids- let's get back to motorcycle racing.
<snip lots of opinion on TL1000 and usenet protocol>
>-fred
Awww shucks, <looking down and rubbing toe back and forth in the
dirt>, sorry DAD
Erik Astrup
On 16 Jun 1997 18:51:58 GMT, bjc...@mulder.tamu.edu (Benjamin Justin Cain)
wrote:
>Erik Astrup (eas...@mother.com) wrote:
>:
>: Are you thick?
>: You think a bunch of us are just making up this article and letters??? I have
>: nothing better to do than invent a "Bike" article. Whoooo brother....
>
>You're right. And I apologize. I fully believe now that the TL actually
>kills people. I believe that it's unsafe. I believe everything else
>you've said since day one of this thread.
>
>Wow... just believing what a few people tell you and accepting it as
>truth is so much easier than thinking for myself. I wonder why I've never
>tried it until now... Thanks Erik!
Good for you!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Erik Astrup - Team Iguana Racing (Ret)
1995 Triumph Tiger
Zuki1351
TL1000 is an ugly piece of shit anyway. You couldn't give me one. GSXR750
is faster, better handling and will shred the TL.
RCook323
>> TL1000 is an ugly piece of shit anyway. You couldn't give me one.
GSXR750
is faster, better handling and will shred the TL. <<
Beauty's in the eye of the beholder - I love the way the bike looks.
GSXR750 "shredding" the TL1000 - have you raced - ROAD RACED -
the two? I have not but I'd say you'd have a very closed race indeed.
In fact, I'm planning to upgrade my race equipment for next season -
any ROAD RACING experiences on either bike will be appreciated.