fastest track bike: gsxr750 or yzf1000 ?

Steven Brown

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to

Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
faster lap times at the race track (ride days).

I've got two options:

trick up my YZF1000
OR
sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.

I also ride the bike to work so the bike needs lights/blinkers/etc, so
buying a straight out race-bike isn't really an option.

Suggestions and ideas would be most welcome.
Thoughts so far:

for the YZF1000:
* raise pegs (ground clearance)
* move pipe (ground clearance)
* big bore kit
* race cams, blue-print engine, port-and-flow, etc
* adjust steering geometry (shorter trail)
* have already got: megacycle pipe, dynojet kit, K&N air filter

for the GSXR750:
* new pipe, dynojet kit, K&N air filter
* bike bore kit?
* race cams, blue-print engine, port-and-flow, etc

drawbacks for the YZF1000:
* weight!
* not enough horsepower in current form
* suspension could be a little better

drawbacks for the GSXR750
* not enough power!
* ???

If you've got any lap times for Eastern Creek, it would be interesting
to compare what is possible on a GSXR750 or YZF1000 in street guise and
patterned tires (I'm using Pirelli CORSAs). My current best (after a couple
of ride days) is 1:50... I think this is about as quick as the
superbikes go in WET weather, so I've got a long way to go :-)

Steve
ste...@zip.com.au

Richard Cant

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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Steven Brown (ste...@zip.com.au) wrote:
:
: Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get

: faster lap times at the race track (ride days).
:
: I've got two options:
:
: trick up my YZF1000
: OR
: sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.

:

Assuming this isn't simply a troll...

For the amount of money you propose to spend on these options, you could
afford to buy a 125 or 250 GP bike which, well ridden, would likely blow
the doors (?) off any street bike. Hell, an RGV250 well ridden can cut
the mustard (as far as laptimes go) in comparison with either of your
options.

Thomas B. Ivers

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

to Steven Brown

Steven Brown wrote:
>
> Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
> faster lap times at the race track (ride days).
>
> I've got two options:
>
> trick up my YZF1000
> OR
> sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.
>

Uhhh geeeee Wally, er... STEVE....I don't know? Better take a look at an
email that I received from Yosh Crew! I don't think he would mind if I
posted it...but the GSXR-750 is no slouch. Just how much power are you
talking. The GSXR-750 will produce OVER 160 hp when built. That should
be plenty for awhile.

Subject: Re: Torque & HP of Built GSXR-750
From: yos...@webtv.net

LETTER ONE..............
Thanks for the reply. The setup you suggest is very cost conscious which
is great, that always helps! I do have questions remaining though...

> Subject: Re: Torque & HP of Built GSXR-750
> From: Steve Perry <yos...@webtv.net>
> Organization: WebTV Subscriber
> Newsgroups: rec.motorcycles.racing
> References: <333C0B...@worldnet.att.net>
>
> Hello from Yoshimura! The discussion on the GSXR750WT is a hot topic to
> say the least. The best way to extract good hp gains for a "reasonable"
> amount of money is as follows:

The GSXR-750 bike is hot and so is Yosh in my opinion!

> SUXR145 Cams ($510)- The only ones available. These are replicas of he
> kit camshaft but use the standard cam chain setup as opposed to the
> roller chain setup on our superbikes.

What about the Stage 3 Camset SUXR146? Does it require the roller chain
setup? Is the roller chain setup that much more expensive and is it to
radical for the street...Where does the Stage two kit start to develop
better HP and Torque as opposed to the Stage 3 Camset? I would imagine
that the Stage 3 develops much more torque but at much higher RPM's due
to the lift and duration that it must offer.

At what horsepower and type of riding do you recommend the endless cam
chain?

> You will then have to use the SUXR328T ($799)valve spring kit which
> includes the race-kit endurance springs/bases and our ti retainers.
> Then you must use the Cosworth Superbike pistons($950) and mill the
> head 0.45mm to reach a compression of 13.1:1.

Which Cosworth kit (part number) are you recommending, the 813cc? What
is the approximate final engine size be in cc's after the head is
milled? Are you planning to release a kit larger than 813cc for the
GSXR-750? I prefer to build the largest engine available...to around
900cc's.

> Then the Carrillos ($800)or Pankl ($2,XXX) Ti rods need to be used.
> Now the race kit steel valves (flat-face) part number
> 12911-33ESO(IN)/12912-33ESO(EX) ($36 ea.) also must be used to reach
> the listed compressio ratio.

OK. Thanks for the tip!

> Keihin 39mm carbs with TPS work very well ($1238) and we have airbox
> adaptors($120) and cables($40) also in stock. Add our racekit CDI
> 32000-33EMO ($465) with true 13,500 redline, balance the crank,
> blueprint the motor and you should have 145 hp available at the crank.
> Everything listed is in stock and now all the information is on the
> table for everyone to see. Thanks!!!
>
> Steve Perry
> yos...@webtv.net

Only 145HP does that include a port and flow job in your blueprint work?
Can't we get this bike to put out closer to 160HP+? 117HP is stock for
U.S. produced bikes which puts us at almost 120HP, and yet we can only
expect to gain 25HP for all the effort? What is the single largest
modification that you sell, after or in replacment of the above items,
that can be made for greater horsepower and torque.

Does Yosh do port and flow work? If not can you recommend a location or
two that do the head and engine assembly work? I live in the
midwest...Illinois, USA.

In any case...THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!!
Thomas
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

LETTER TWO..............'Hey I want closer to 160HP!'
The SUXR145 is the only camshaft that we offer. No stage 2/3. Only
Race kit replica camshaft with a part# of SUXR145. 749cc Cosworth
kit. with 815cc kit you could see 160hp. You must realize that our
750cc superbike motors cost over $100,000 if you could buy the parts
that we use. It grows progressively more expensive to extract fewer and
fewer hp... I would not reccomend the roller chain conversion ($650)
because then you should use the kit cams ($1100) to really see a
reduction in inertial mass and more free hp.

yos...@webtv.net

PS. 900cc 'kits' are available if you look around too. ;-)
Later!

Richard Hill

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Apr 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/7/97

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RCook323 wrote:
>
> >> Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
> faster lap times at the race track (ride days). <<
>

> Save your money for more track time - and less bike improvements.
> I'm riding a way-underpowered, way-overweight, '92 GSXR-600 - stock.
> After three years of racing, I'm still shaving 1 or 2 seconds off
> my personal best each time I race. It's getting more and more difficult,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Let's see,

By the time you had run 80 or so races at Oak Hill, you'd soon be doing
negative lap times.

Soon you'll be finishing before you start :)

Kind of a quantum thing I'd guess.

> but if you've only been at the track a couple of days, I'd wager that
> your YZF still has a lot left that you haven't found.
>
> Good luck,
> Rick Cook
> Black Sunshine Racing

He's right. I thought I was 'flogging' my YSR last weekend during an
endurance race, only to notice my lap times were 2 seconds a lap slower
than my novice team mate friend, and almost _6_ seconds a lap slower
than an expert we had on my team ... same bike ... same day.

I don't think I've maxxed out the YSR yet :)

But that wont stop me from changing a few things on it to go faster
either :)

--
Richard Hill
CMRA #414

Graham Byrnes

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

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In article <5iar8q$g1r$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>,
ca...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard Cant) wrote:

> Steven Brown (ste...@zip.com.au) wrote:
> :
> : Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
> : faster lap times at the race track (ride days).

> :
> : I've got two options:

> :
> : trick up my YZF1000
> : OR
> : sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.

> :

>
> Assuming this isn't simply a troll...
>
> For the amount of money you propose to spend on these options, you could
> afford to buy a 125 or 250 GP bike which, well ridden, would likely blow
> the doors (?) off any street bike. Hell, an RGV250 well ridden can cut
> the mustard (as far as laptimes go) in comparison with either of your
> options.
>

Well, he does want to ride it to work... I'd say buy an RGV. You'll go faster
on it because it is so much easier to ride. It will also be shed-loads more
fun on the track. I think the E. Creek lap record for the 250 proddies is
around 1'41" (For 250 GP it's about 1'36 locally, but Max bid a 1'31.9"....)

Graham
(who sold his GSXR-T, bought a TZ-250 and went faster right away)

PS If you really want to go fast, get a race licence and do it properly.
Chasing other people who know what they are doing can take off seconds.

RCook323

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

>> Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
faster lap times at the race track (ride days). <<

Save your money for more track time - and less bike improvements.

I'm riding a way-underpowered, way-overweight, '92 GSXR-600 - stock.
After three years of racing, I'm still shaving 1 or 2 seconds off
my personal best each time I race. It's getting more and more difficult,

JAS

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

Richard Cant wrote:
>
> Steven Brown (ste...@zip.com.au) wrote:
> :

> : Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get

> : faster lap times at the race track (ride days).

> :

> : I've got two options:
> :
> : trick up my YZF1000
> : OR
> : sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.
> :
>
> Assuming this isn't simply a troll...
>
> For the amount of money you propose to spend on these options, you could
> afford to buy a 125 or 250 GP bike which, well ridden, would likely blow
> the doors (?) off any street bike. Hell, an RGV250 well ridden can cut
> the mustard (as far as laptimes go) in comparison with either of your
> options.
>

> --
>

Alternatively assuming you're heading for Formula Xtreme you may find
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~pinv/yzf/ interesting: its a page with the
subtitle "Swapping information to make your and my YZF1000 faster."

Kevin Gleeson

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Apr 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/8/97

to

In article <G.Byrnes-080...@graham-byrnes.maths.latrobe.edu.au>, G.By...@latrobe.edu.au (Graham Byrnes) wrote:
>In article <5iar8q$g1r$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>,

>ca...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard Cant) wrote:
>> Steven Brown (ste...@zip.com.au) wrote:
>> :
>> : Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
>> : faster lap times at the race track (ride days).
>> :
>> : I've got two options:
>> : trick up my YZF1000
>> : OR
>> : sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.
>>
>> Assuming this isn't simply a troll...
>>
>> For the amount of money you propose to spend on these options, you could
>> afford to buy a 125 or 250 GP bike which, well ridden, would likely blow
>> the doors (?) off any street bike. Hell, an RGV250 well ridden can cut
>> the mustard (as far as laptimes go) in comparison with either of your
>> options.
>>

>Well, he does want to ride it to work... I'd say buy an RGV. You'll go faster
>on it because it is so much easier to ride. It will also be shed-loads more
>fun on the track. I think the E. Creek lap record for the 250 proddies is
>around 1'41" (For 250 GP it's about 1'36 locally, but Max bid a 1'31.9"....)
>
>Graham

I think what was meant was keep the YZF for the street and buy a cheap 125 or
250 GP just for the track - have the best of both worlds, basically.

The YZF should have plenty of power for the road (must get around to taking my
mate's for a test run) and a 250GP would be heaps faster than any road bike
around the track and more fun to boot.

You'd probably pick up an older GP for not much more than what it would cost
to do major work to the YZF or changerover costs to the Suzi.

Cheers

- - - - - - -
Kevin Gleeson
Imagine It
3D animation and graphics
Hobart, Tasmania, Australia

http://www.tasmall.com.au/imagine_it/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Graham Byrnes

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

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In article <5ieke1$5...@news.mel.aone.net.au>, ima...@h130.aone.net.au
(Kevin Gleeson) wrote:

>
> You'd probably pick up an older GP for not much more than what it would cost
> to do major work to the YZF or changerover costs to the Suzi.
>

Yes... A TZ250B (1991) goes for about $6000 with spares. There are two
'93 models, imports, with spare cranks, barrels, wheels etc for $9000 each.

I'm rather amused by the idea that getting 160hp will result in faster lap
times, when the rider is still waaay outside competitive 600SS lap times.

Speaking of the 600SS psycho class, I saw the lap charts from the Baskerville
ARRC last night: in one leg, the first 20 riders all recorded best laps within
a second of each other!!!

Graham

Thomas B. Ivers

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to Graham Byrnes

Graham Byrnes wrote:
>
> In article <5ieke1$5...@news.mel.aone.net.au>, ima...@h130.aone.net.au
> (Kevin Gleeson) wrote:
>
> >
> > You'd probably pick up an older GP for not much more than what it would cost
> > to do major work to the YZF or changerover costs to the Suzi.
> >
> Yes... A TZ250B (1991) goes for about $6000 with spares. There are two
> '93 models, imports, with spare cranks, barrels, wheels etc for $9000 each.

Can you ride that TZ250B to work, can it be liscensed, does it come with
typical street headlight setup...I don't know? ;-) Maybe it can be only
you know...and at $6000 to $9000, we are right in the ballpark for a
Suzuki GSXR-750 which is one of his options as he sees it.

> I'm rather amused by the idea that getting 160hp will result in faster lap
> times, when the rider is still waaay outside competitive 600SS lap times.

How come you are so amused, let him decide. This was his post...

>> Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
>> faster lap times at the race track (ride days).
>>
>> I've got two options:

HE CLAIMS TO HAVE TWO OPTIONS. Neither option included a track only 250
but "Suggestions and ideas would be most welcome" so your TZ250B is
acceptable too.

>>
>> trick up my YZF1000
>> OR
>> sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.
>>

>> I also ride the bike to work so the bike needs lights/blinkers/etc, so
>> buying a straight out race-bike isn't really an option.
>>
>> Suggestions and ideas would be most welcome.

So I ran with one of the street bikes he mentioned, the GSXR-750. He
wants a bike to have fun with, period. He wants to participate in "race
track (ride days)" which do not fit into any specific class as far as I
can tell and he want's lower times and does not care how he achieves
them ("faster lap times," YAHOOOEEEEE)...and be able to ride around to
and from work. Personally the stock GSXR-750 with a set of tires and a
pipe may give him faster lap times and a built GSXR-750 may knock that
down a few more seconds too. He has to decide HOW to spend his cash and
what he is going to do to acheive to reduce his lap times. You can do
that with brute force(GSXR-750) or finesse(TZ250B) but only one will be
usefull to get him to and from work and give him hundreds of hours of
potential use. The street rideable, off the rack, daily driven,
GSXR-750...once over lightly on the mods for the daily driving...over
heavily if he likes tuning work. A ~140 & ~160 HP setup either fit the
general area of "Suggestions and ideas would be most welcome." I think
it fits...guys around here in Chicago, IL, USA, ride bikes like this
every weekend on the streets so I do not see this as a problem.

I responded with the email that I received from Yosh wich included the
builds for two systems since he needs the most details he can get. YOSH
http://www.yoshimura-rd.com/

For _me_...I would never buy a 250 or for that matter anything under a
600. I owned and built a bike before that was too small cc-wise and now
I weigh (180lbs not 155-160lbs like some professional road racer) to
much and wouldn't be bothered spending my money that way. I have never
met this guy...He already has a YZF1000 and if I were him I wouldn't buy
a 250. The charge (excitement) is in upgrading from what he has to
something better fitting the catagories he defined as an 'all around'
high end street going sportbike. The 750 offers great handling for the
size bike that it is and offers a similar power handling package to what
he is used too.

Sound logical to you yet are are you still amused? In fact although I
like the new crop of 600's (just about all are great bikes) I would buy
the GSXR-750 if I were him because of everything I just stated. HP,
Torque, Handling, Brakes, etc. ...it is all there in the GSXR-750
whereas the other bikes only offer partial solutions.

Thomas B. Ivers

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

Check these links out...no I don't work for Suzuki. I would take a job
there though if offered...hint hint hint.... ;-) Hehehe.

BULLET WITH BUTTERFLY WINGS: "...Suzuki engineers looked at their most
successful racing machine and decided to copy it. That bike was Kevin
Schwantz's RGV500 - a two-stroke 500cc Grand Prix racer,"
URL http://www.cyclenews.com/cycle/archives/1996/gsxr.html

Schwantz's RGV500 - a two-stroke 500cc Grand Prix racer,"
URL http://www.cyclenews.com/cycle/archives/1996/gsxr.html

Middleweight Messiah: Riding the GSXR-750
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcsuz/96gsxr750.html

Farokh's Suzuki page.
http://mcf.com/pages/suzuki.html

AMA 750 Supersport Results From Daytona (Suzuki DOMINATES!)
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcmail/ama/daytona750.html

American Federation of Motorcyclists
http://www.afmracing.org/

AFM Race results...Click 750 class to see domination!
http://www.afmracing.org/results_search.html

The manufacturers are missing so from the above results...but you can
grab the names off of the previous post...just look at the 750
Production and 750 Superbike lists. Everywhere it says
Suzuki...in-so-far-as-I-know...it is a Suzuki GSXR-750. I don't see
anyone other manufacturers name besides Suzuki on the list do you, and
pretty soon all you will see for the 600 ranks will be Suzuki too! Hey
the 600 just came out of the box so they are having some teathing
problems. Suzuki currently builds the closest thing to a race bike for
the street, and on the track...it isn't too bad either.

From: dd...@crl.com
Subject: AFM Results, Sears Point, April 6th.
Date: 8 Apr 1997 22:39:20 GMT
Message-ID: news:5ieheo$5...@samba.rahul.net

I have many more links related to racing and the GSXR-750 but you can
find info by looking for it if you want it. The point is I think the
GSXR-750 bike fits this guys needs.

Thomas

Mark Panos

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

Out of interest what time is considered fast for a road bike in full
road trim (ie registered) at Eastern Creek and Oran Park. I know the
250's and 600 race bikes can do 1.40's or so, but Im talking street
bike.

--
Mark Panos
Sydney Australia
Red YZF1000

Check out my Performance YZF1000 Thunderace page at
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~pinv/yzf

Mike Solis

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Apr 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/9/97

to

Kevin Gleeson wrote:
>
> I think what was meant was keep the YZF for the street and buy a cheap 125 or
> 250 GP just for the track - have the best of both worlds, basically.
>
> The YZF should have plenty of power for the road (must get around to taking my
> mate's for a test run) and a 250GP would be heaps faster than any road bike
> around the track and more fun to boot.
>

Here's my problem with your solution, don't get me wrong I'm not
knocking GP bikes, I have a passion for light sportbikes that handle
well.

The jetting/maintenance/teardown/fear of seizing aspect of two-strokes
scares me absolutely silly. My lightweight diesel works well enough,
especially since I'm only in my second season of racing, but I can't
help but be jealous of all the two stroke riders on the same practice
grids. Can a 250 or 125 GP bike actually be set up so you arent
spending so much time wrenching it (I can be classified as barely more
competent that mechanically inept when it comes to motors)? Can they be
tuned is such a way that I wouldn't have to worry about seizing the
thing? Even if it could, I still can't afford one until I graduate :(

Mike
--
Michael Solis
AFM #907
87/91 EX500 (track)- The Superheap
1990 FZR 600 (street/project) - The Impound Puppy
high...@sirius.com
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/6018

"To finish first, one must first finish" - Anonymous

David Neall

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Apr 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/10/97

to

Full road trim... I'd say about:

Eastern Creek 1:55sec
Oran Park GP 1:30sec or so

Dave
____

Mark Panos

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Apr 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/10/97

to

David Neall wrote:
>
> Full road trim... I'd say about:
>
> Eastern Creek 1:55sec
> Oran Park GP 1:30sec or so
>
> Dave

Dave you mean 1.45 for Eastern Creek??

Regards

Dave Neall

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Apr 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/11/97

to

_____
It's hard to list an approx. time...

I've been in the 40's at Eastern Creek and 18's at O.P but not on a
roadie...

Dave

Brian McLaughlin

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Apr 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/11/97

to

Richard Hill <tws...@flash.net> wrote:

>RCook323 wrote:
>>
>> >> Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
>> faster lap times at the race track (ride days). <<
>>

>> Save your money for more track time - and less bike improvements.
>> I'm riding a way-underpowered, way-overweight, '92 GSXR-600 - stock.
>> After three years of racing, I'm still shaving 1 or 2 seconds off
>> my personal best each time I race. It's getting more and more difficult,

> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>Let's see,

>By the time you had run 80 or so races at Oak Hill, you'd soon be doing
>negative lap times.

>Soon you'll be finishing before you start :)

>Kind of a quantum thing I'd guess.

^^^^^^^
I think you mean relativistic.

>> but if you've only been at the track a couple of days, I'd wager that
>> your YZF still has a lot left that you haven't found.
>>
>> Good luck,
>> Rick Cook
>> Black Sunshine Racing

>He's right. I thought I was 'flogging' my YSR last weekend during an
>endurance race, only to notice my lap times were 2 seconds a lap slower
>than my novice team mate friend, and almost _6_ seconds a lap slower
>than an expert we had on my team ... same bike ... same day.

>I don't think I've maxxed out the YSR yet :)

>But that wont stop me from changing a few things on it to go faster
>either :)

>--
>Richard Hill
>CMRA #414

--
Brian
TZ250E (1993-95) 2 strokes smoke,
FZR600 (1990) 4 strokes choke!

Neervens rob

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Apr 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/11/97

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--------------42635CBB2DC6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kevin Gleeson wrote:
>
> In article <G.Byrnes-080...@graham-byrnes.maths.latrobe.edu.au>,
G.By...@latrobe.edu.au (Graham Byrnes) wrote:
> >In article <5iar8q$g1r$1...@goanna.cs.rmit.edu.au>,
> >ca...@yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au (Richard Cant) wrote:

> >> Steven Brown (ste...@zip.com.au) wrote:
> >> :
> >> : Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
> >> : faster lap times at the race track (ride days).

> >> :
> >> : I've got two options:
> >> : trick up my YZF1000

> >> : OR
> >> : sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.
> >>

> >> Assuming this isn't simply a troll...
> >>
> >> For the amount of money you propose to spend on these options, you could
> >> afford to buy a 125 or 250 GP bike which, well ridden, would likely blow
> >> the doors (?) off any street bike. Hell, an RGV250 well ridden can cut
> >> the mustard (as far as laptimes go) in comparison with either of your
> >> options.
> >>
> >Well, he does want to ride it to work... I'd say buy an RGV. You'll go faster
> >on it because it is so much easier to ride. It will also be shed-loads more
> >fun on the track. I think the E. Creek lap record for the 250 proddies is
> >around 1'41" (For 250 GP it's about 1'36 locally, but Max bid a 1'31.9"....)
> >
> >Graham
>

> I think what was meant was keep the YZF for the street and buy a cheap 125 or
> 250 GP just for the track - have the best of both worlds, basically.
>
> The YZF should have plenty of power for the road (must get around to taking my
> mate's for a test run) and a 250GP would be heaps faster than any road bike
> around the track and more fun to boot.
>

> You'd probably pick up an older GP for not much more than what it would cost
> to do major work to the YZF or changerover costs to the Suzi.
>

> Cheers
>
> - - - - - - -
> Kevin Gleeson
> Imagine It
> 3D animation and graphics
> Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
>
> http://www.tasmall.com.au/imagine_it/

> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Did you already thought of a fireblade because it is faster(it is) then
a gsx750r on the road. On the track you will be faster on some tracks
and lose some on tighter ones. See productionrace championship (europe)
8 out of 10 for the blade!!!!

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<h1><FONT COLOR=#FFFF00><center>Streetfighters,modified motorcycles</center></FONT></h1>
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<h2><FONT COLOR=#FFFF00><center>Why would you change an almost perfect motorcycle. Why does a dog lick his own <a HREF="http://home.pi.net/~arai/balls.gif">balls.</a></center></h2>

<center><i><FONT COLOR=#FFFF00>Streetfighters are heavily modified motorcycles. In this world a standard motorcycle is nice but a modified one is special. To build a special you want to know the possibilities and if it can be done. Thats why I want to make an online builders guide,where builders give and take information for their projects. </FONT></i></center>
<h3><center><i><FONT color=#FFFF00><blink>Email your build information and pictures</blink></i></center></h3>
<p>
<center><img SRC="bloot1.jpg"</center>
<P><CENTER><FONT SIZE=+1 FACE="Arial"><A HREF="http://home.pi.net/~arai/home2.html">Yes, gimme some Streetfighters on me screen</A></FONT></CENTER><BR>
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Thomas Ivers

unread,

Apr 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/13/97

to Graham Byrnes

In order to help the rider (the main point of the discussion) I have
posted this response to the newsgroup. The rider gets no help by us
discussing a solution for him in the privacy of a channel of
communication that he cannot read.

Graham Byrnes wrote:
>
> >How come you are so amused, let him decide. This was his post...
>

> It was my reply, I have a right to be amused.

Yes you have the right to be amused...but the reason for being amused is
implicated by referring to my post without asking me wether or not I
believe that horsepower alone is the only means of getting a rider
around the track with a shorter lap time. I was not amused by your
assumption of my analysis. If I had assumed that horsepower was the ONLY
answer then I would have reccommended the Suz 1100 or Honda XX then
wouldn't I? I did not though since I know that there are other
essentials required in order to 'go fast.' I already saw that the person
has a YZF1000 which has a certain amount of horsepower, is a great
handling bike for it's size and for how old the design is. But alot has
been done since then... i.e. the GSXR-750 is now the best bike for that
size (3/4 to full liter and beyond) made in the world that he can
afford. This is not my opinion at all...it is the opinion of most
sportbike magazines(and removing any possible biases) the opinion of
most stock 750 and 750 superbike event results around the world. (Check
your own track.) A Bimota may be better, as probably would a Ducati but
he doesn't have that cash most likely and he did not inquire as to these
models.

I personally think he would get the best 600cc handling available with
the GSXR-750 and have a shot at developing just as much horsepower as
the YZF1000. Hence he would gain the handling capability to go faster.
Maybe he is not comfortable enough to go faster on the YZF1000 due to
percieved handling traits of the large(r) YZF1000.

Instead of asking what the lap times were for bikes that he did not own
you and others should have asked for the lap times of YZF1000's and the
various state of their build as seen around local tracks to compare what
this rider has accomplished. You cannot compare apples to oranges.

> It is simply a common mistake that people think more horsepower
> will make them go faster while they are still unable to use what
> they already have.

I have not made that mistake here but you did not ask me either,
_you_assumed_ and from your email still assume that I made the mistake
of horsepower being the only necessary item on the plate...I understand
that it is the combination of rider capability, bike torque, bike
horsepower, and handling traits that get a rider around the track fast.
In purchasing a GSXR-750 he would gain handling and the ability to
maintain the same horsepower he currently has. That is something very
important.... Plus the fact that he ride the bike he plans to race as
many miles per year as he possible can.

The extra miles he puts in on ONE bike (asuming he can only afford one
bike) will make him faster on the track too. If he owned a track bike
and a street bike he would not get as much from his very limited time on
the track. This is simply rider awareness of the machine.

> You can spend a lot of money that way and end up very disappointed.
> I'd like to save this guy that disappointment, if possible. If he
> chooses to ignore me and the other posters (I didn't suggest the GP bike,
> btw), then that's fine too.

Well then...I can say as I have...since I stand correct.

> >
> >Sound logical to you yet are are you still amused? In fact although I
> >like the new crop of 600's (just about all are great bikes) I would buy
> >the GSXR-750 if I were him because of everything I just stated. HP,
> >Torque, Handling, Brakes, etc. ...it is all there in the GSXR-750
> >whereas the other bikes only offer partial solutions.
> >
>

> I made that mistake. It's a very good bike, but you need talent to go
> really fast on one. I, and a lot of people who know better than me, think
> there are easier bikes to learn to go fast on.
>
> Graham

The improved solution for the guy that already has a YZF1000 who wants
to maintain the same street performance and have a NEW bike that he can
jump on and take to the track at a moments notice IS the GSXR-750. It is
one of the two bikes he was deciding between...not a 250 a 600 or
anything else.

The best solution would be a tremendous increase in time spent at the
track with the new GSXR-750. However...just owning the bike affords some
level of familiarity with it, so while you may drive faster everywhere,
only time spent going round and round and round and round on some named
track following other riders of higher caliber will make you go round
and round faster on the named track.

The absolute best would be if he prepped the newly purchased GSXR-750
for track only in whatever class he wanted to race in. Take it to the
tracks and run it at as many tracks as possible...run the bike all day
if possible, and have as many spare parts as he possibly can afford. Get
a team manager, a great mechanic or two, and have all available support
so he can quit his day job. There is simply NO accounting for handling a
bike at ultra high speeds all day long that a weekend rider cannot make
up for by posing with his fast bike at the track on open track days.

There is a new bike in town and on the tracks....the GSXR-750 (and
GSXR-600 for that matter). I am not trying to hurt your feelings...get
over it. The new bike(s) is(are) better. Next year...I will recommend
something else if something else is better and the questions is
different. Nobody owns me.

Thomas.

Bradley Gray

unread,

Apr 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/14/97

to

In article <334B44...@worldnet.att.net>,

"Thomas B. Ivers" <www.coo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>So I ran with one of the street bikes he mentioned, the GSXR-750. He
>wants a bike to have fun with, period. He wants to participate in "race
>track (ride days)" which do not fit into any specific class as far as I
>can tell and he want's lower times and does not care how he achieves
>them ("faster lap times," YAHOOOEEEEE)...and be able to ride around to
>and from work.

I don't know much about bikes but when I used to go club racing I found a
good way to reduce my lap times was to know that I didn't have to drive the
car to work the next day. I could drive at 9/10ths instead of 7/10ths. I
also went faster in old shitboxes rather than something shiney and new as I
was always concerned about crashing.

Brad

ceja...@networx.net.au

unread,

Apr 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM4/20/97

to

ste...@zip.com.au (Steven Brown) wrote:

>Besides improving myself, I'm trying to improve my motorbike to get
>faster lap times at the race track (ride days).

>I've got two options:

>trick up my YZF1000
> OR
>sell the YZF1000 and buy a GSXR750T and trick it up.

>I also ride the bike to work so the bike needs lights/blinkers/etc, so
>buying a straight out race-bike isn't really an option.

>Suggestions and ideas would be most welcome.

>Thoughts so far:

>Steve
>ste...@zip.com.au

why change from a YZF1000 what is the weight difference if any
what bike has the more grunt? won't the YZF handle or you do not know
how to play with suspension? If you can ride a YZF better than GSR750
on the road your balls are horribly big in your wet dreams, get your
hands off it and onto the YZF's throttle.
Bayliss and Goddard do the GSR's justice on the track but who else
gets the chance to twist a throttle like they do?
ceja...@networx.net.au a YZF owner with balls not big stainless
steel ones like Gobert and Corser