i crossed spark plug wires, help please!
BCummi3566
i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike did any
damage? i installed chrome spark plug covers on my tc88 and accidently crossed
plug wires and tryed starting engine for a moment. besides the bike not firing,
did i do any damage to my beloved harley?
answer is deeply
appreciated,
bill, millville nj
dual45s
"BCummi3566" <bcumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040607233052...@mb-m14.aol.com...
Nah. Plugs just fired at inopportune times. Just put them back correctly and
all should be well.
--
Wayne
AH 52, SENS, BS 238
The road goes on forever...
roach
"BCummi3566" <bcumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040607233052...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> cold beers for everyone!
Thank you. I'll have a Bud!
I can't answer your question directly, but I can't help but
notice where you're from.
As Social Director, I'm obliged to let you know that you
are in *my* social area, and I must do everything in my power
to facilitate any IRL you may wish to make with the netscum
in our area.
(Unless you're skeered. In which case, just say you're
skeered, and I'll leave you alone.) <sfsf>
--
Roach- PhillyHoodlums-VMC Social Director
PH#2, BS#196, DOF#yes, MANS, SENS
'98 SuperGlide "FXDirty"
Curly Larry and
<sniff... sniff...>
--
Curly LaJolla - AH#117 BS#107
93 FLHS Bark-O-Glide
Lose Larry & Moe to email
Hd36knuckl
>i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike did any
damage?
>Nah. Plugs just fired at inopportune times. Just put them back correctly and
all should be well.
Wayne,
Harley-Davidson's have a dual fire (lost spark) ignition. This means the plugs
fire when the cylinder is just before top dead center on both the compression
and exhaust stroke. This being the case there is no difference which way the
plug wires are connected to the coil. It is just for ease of routing that the
the top wire went to the front cylinder and the lower to the rear.
Note that many automobiles now have the lost spark system to burn unburned
gasses in the exhaust.
Later,
Chris
Who you callin' a CURMUDGEON!
If you ever see my bike on a trailer, CALL 911! Its stolen.
Iron Butt association
Pull my joint to reply
Ryder Rick
"Hd36knuckl" <hd36k...@aol.commyjoint> wrote in message
news:20040608113812...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> >dual45s sed,
>
>
> >i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike
did any
> damage?
>
> >Nah. Plugs just fired at inopportune times. Just put them back correctly
and
> all should be well.
>
> Wayne,
> Harley-Davidson's have a dual fire (lost spark) ignition. This means the
plugs
> fire when the cylinder is just before top dead center on both the
compression
> and exhaust stroke. This being the case there is no difference which way
the
> plug wires are connected to the coil. It is just for ease of routing that
the
> the top wire went to the front cylinder and the lower to the rear.
Except on the new bikes......
*******> Note that many automobiles now have the lost spark system to burn
unburned
> gasses in the exhaust.********
You better share some of the rope yer smokin, I wanna catch up with you.
RickB
dual45s
news:20040608113812...@mb-m02.aol.com...
>
>
> >i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike
did any
> damage?
>
> >Nah. Plugs just fired at inopportune times. Just put them back correctly
and
> all should be well.
>
> Wayne,
> Harley-Davidson's have a dual fire (lost spark) ignition. This means the
plugs
> fire when the cylinder is just before top dead center on both the
compression
> and exhaust stroke. This being the case there is no difference which way
the
> plug wires are connected to the coil. It is just for ease of routing that
the
> the top wire went to the front cylinder and the lower to the rear.
> Note that many automobiles now have the lost spark system to burn
unburned
> gasses in the exhaust.
I thought he said he had a Twin Cam which as I understand has a single fire
ignition rather than the old wasted spark system.
Charlie
"Hd36knuckl" <hd36k...@aol.commyjoint> wrote in message
news:20040608113812...@mb-m02.aol.com...
> Wayne,
Greg
Hrmm.... how could this be done? Most wires i have seen are different
sizes. Ohh unless you connected them wrong at the distributor side of
things. (is it even called a distributor on a bike, I dunno)
Hd36knuckl
>I thought he said he had a Twin Cam which as I understand has a single fire
>ignition rather than the old wasted spark system.
Dual,
If that is the case all he did was waste some spark. No harm, no foul.
me2
> "BCummi3566" <bcumm...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040607233052...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> > cold beers for everyone!
>
> Thank you. I'll have a Bud!
>
>
> > i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike did
> any
> > damage? i installed chrome spark plug covers on my tc88 and accidently
> crossed
> > plug wires and tryed starting engine for a moment. besides the bike not
> firing,
> > did i do any damage to my beloved harley?
> > answer is deeply
> > appreciated,
> > bill, millville
> nj
>
>
> I can't answer your question directly, but I can't help but
> notice where you're from.
>
> As Social Director, I'm obliged to let you know that you
> are in *my* social area, and I must do everything in my power
> to facilitate any IRL you may wish to make with the netscum
> in our area.
>
> (Unless you're skeered. In which case, just say you're
> skeered, and I'll leave you alone.) <sfsf>
What... Was that in english?
KF/AKA AH#49
>
> >dual45s sed,
>
> >I thought he said he had a Twin Cam which as I understand has a single fire
> >ignition rather than the old wasted spark system.
>
> Dual,
> If that is the case all he did was waste some spark. No harm, no foul.
Can't "waste" what he never had, "expert".
Please trade some parts instead of your much needed IQ.
wallsterr
DFW_Fatboy <dfw_f...@yahoo.dot.com> wrote in message
news:40c604ae$1@wallace....
> crossed over to the dark side. if you attempt to ride it anymore with
those
> white tennis shoes or sandles on it will throw your ass off. if you
attempt
> entering a starbucks parking lot, it will quickly accelerate and head to
the
> closest titty bar. BEWARE
>
> DFW Fatboy
>
that's true! i did that a few years ago and woke up two weeks later at the
famous bunny ranch with a very tired johnson. Still cant find the tennis
shoes.
walt
'91 FXR
SSBassman
wrote:
>>dual45s sed,
>
>
>>i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike did any
>damage?
>
>>Nah. Plugs just fired at inopportune times. Just put them back correctly and
>all should be well.
>
>Wayne,
> Harley-Davidson's have a dual fire (lost spark) ignition. This means the plugs
>fire when the cylinder is just before top dead center on both the compression
>and exhaust stroke. This being the case there is no difference which way the
>plug wires are connected to the coil. It is just for ease of routing that the
>the top wire went to the front cylinder and the lower to the rear.
Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires
reversed, or at least not well. That's because, even though each
cylinder fires with every revolution instead of every other revolution
(if it's dual fire) they are still timed 45 degrees apart from
eachother.
Steve
RedOregon
news:20040607233052...@mb-m14.aol.com:
> i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike
> did any damage? i installed chrome spark plug covers on my tc88 and
C'mon you guys, give him a break! He's asking a serious question here.
Bill, take those wires off the bike and cut about a three inch length of
coat hanger or other heavy-gauge wire for each end of the wires (four
pieces total).
Bend the coat hanger wires into "U" shapes, and slide the curved end of the
"U" into the ends of the spark plug wires. That'll give you kind of a
double prong sticking out of each end. Take them over to your yard and
shove the prongs into the earth.
Leave them there for about five minutes; that'll drain the reversed
electric charge that you introduced back into the earth. This is where the
term "ground" comes from when referring to electrical work.
It's really important that you do this before riding the bike again.
Otherwise, even if you put the wires back on the right plugs, the reversed
charge you gave them will make the engine run backwards, and before you
know it, you'll be running over your wife in the kitchen, or be embedded in
your neighbor's hedge next time you drop the bike in gear (depending on
where you park your bike). Might well knock out a few teeth on the
handlebars, too, depending on how fast you dump the clutch.
Hope this helps.
--
Early to rise and early to bed makes a male healthy and wealthy and dead.
-James Thurber
Yank mycrank to Email.
Various Jap 1977-1990
'90 XLH 1990-2003 (enough bugs in the teeth)
'03 FLHT 2003-?
Big Ben
>reversed, or at least not well. That's because, even though each
>cylinder fires with every revolution instead of every other revolution
>(if it's dual fire) they are still timed 45 degrees apart from
>eachother.
>
>Steve
>
yeah, BUT.....at least as it pertains to MY bike with a stock ignition
setup.....
there is one set of points, one coil with 2 outputs.
every time the points trigger the coil, it sends current outta both outputs on
the coil, thereby sparking both plugs at the same time.
..
In case of emergency, dial 1911
if'n ya wants to e-mail me, just drop the BULLSHIT.
Hd36knuckl
>Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires reversed,
or at least not well. That's because, even though each cylinder fires with
every revolution instead of every other revolution (if it's dual fire) they are
still timed 45 degrees apart from eachother.
Steve,
On the older Harleys it doesn't matter which wire goes to which plug as they
are dual fire. One cylinder is running a lil advanced and one is running a lil
retarded. This was the way on all V-Twins until the dual point, dual coil
single fire models came out in the early 60s. They went back to dual fire
single points in 65 and stayed that way until recent years.
I know my Knucks, Panhead and Shovelheads well. The EVO and Twin Cam are
things I don't know much about
roach
"RedOregon" <RedO...@satx.rr.mycrank.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9502D3880...@24.93.43.119...
> bcumm...@aol.com (BCummi3566) wrote in
> news:20040607233052...@mb-m14.aol.com:
>
> > i was wondering if crossing my spark plugs and trying to start my bike
> > did any damage? i installed chrome spark plug covers on my tc88 and
>
> C'mon you guys, give him a break! He's asking a serious question here.
>
> Bill, take those wires off the bike and cut about a three inch length of
> coat hanger or other heavy-gauge wire for each end of the wires (four
> pieces total).
>
> Bend the coat hanger wires into "U" shapes, and slide the curved end of
the
> "U" into the ends of the spark plug wires. That'll give you kind of a
> double prong sticking out of each end. Take them over to your yard and
> shove the prongs into the earth.
>
> Leave them there for about five minutes; that'll drain the reversed
> electric charge that you introduced back into the earth. This is where
the
> term "ground" comes from when referring to electrical work.
Couldn't snip a bit. Great explanation. But you failed to take
into account that this guy is from South Jersey. With the sandy,
acidic soil, this won't work. It'll only kill his tomatos and blueberrys
from the added electricity in the soil.
roach
BCummi3566
the bike. will i need new spark plugs?
SSBassman
wrote:
>>Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires
>>reversed, or at least not well. That's because, even though each
>>cylinder fires with every revolution instead of every other revolution
>>(if it's dual fire) they are still timed 45 degrees apart from
>>eachother.
>
>yeah, BUT.....at least as it pertains to MY bike with a stock ignition
>setup.....
>
>there is one set of points, one coil with 2 outputs.
>every time the points trigger the coil, it sends current outta both outputs on
>the coil, thereby sparking both plugs at the same time.
Ah yes, ok. I was mistaken above. If both plugs always spark at the
same time, even with the difference in timing between the first spark to
the second (360-45=315 degrees) and the second back to the first.
(360+45=405 degrees) it shouldn't matter which wire is on which plug.
Steve
roach
> thank you for the reply, i feel better knowing i didnt do anything to
damage
> the bike. will i need new spark plugs?
No. But you'll need to re-plant your tomatos.
Hd36knuckl
>thank you for the reply, i feel better knowing i didnt do anything to damage
the bike. will i need new spark plugs?
>
Do you think they were injured by sparking?
RedOregon
news:g1wxc.18891$Yd3....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>> "RedOregon" <RedO...@satx.rr.mycrank.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9502D3880...@24.93.43.119...
>> Leave them there for about five minutes; that'll drain the reversed
>> electric charge that you introduced back into the earth. This is where
>> the term "ground" comes from when referring to electrical work.
>
>
> Couldn't snip a bit. Great explanation. But you failed to take
> into account that this guy is from South Jersey. With the sandy,
> acidic soil, this won't work. It'll only kill his tomatos and blueberrys
> from the added electricity in the soil.
>
Hmmm... good point, I failed to take that into account.
That can be taken care of, though. Bcummi, go to your local fish market or
pet store, if they carry fish. Ask them for eight or ten of their biggest
suckers (the fish with the big suction-cup looking mouths, the ones that
scrub the algae off the side of your fishtank), and bury them in your soil.
Suckers are known to take care of problems like this, and should help you
out very well.
Thanks, roach. I'll have to pay more attention when dispensing advice in
the future.
Terry Coombs
"Ryder Rick" <despam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10cbo5k...@news.supernews.com...
Nope , he's right on this one , most cars now have a "wasted spark"
ignition system . Pop the hood on a late 90's GM and look for the coil pack
. You'll see 2 spark plug wires coming from each coil . I'm not sure if it
actually "burns unburned gas" , but it does fire both plugs every revolution
. Just like my Harley .
--
Snag
'76 FLH
Terry Coombs
"Hd36knuckl" <hd36k...@aol.commyjoint> wrote in message
> >Steve sed,
> >Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires
reversed,
> or at least not well. That's because, even though each cylinder fires
with
> every revolution instead of every other revolution (if it's dual fire)
they are
> still timed 45 degrees apart from eachother.
>
> Steve,
> On the older Harleys it doesn't matter which wire goes to which plug as
they
> are dual fire.
> ******One cylinder is running a lil advanced and one is running a lil
> retarded.******
>This was the way on all V-Twins until the dual point, dual coil
> single fire models came out in the early 60s. They went back to dual fire
> single points in 65 and stayed that way until recent years.
> I know my Knucks, Panhead and Shovelheads well. The EVO and Twin Cam are
> things I don't know much about
> Later,
> Chris
Gotta call you wrong on the timing issue . Why do ya think one point cam
lobe is wider than the other ? It's to offset the point opening events 45*
(of crankshaft rotation) from being exactly opposite . Taking into account
that the camshaft runs at 1/2 the speed of the crank , the crankshaft will
rotate 315* <spark> then 405*<spark> . The *wasted* spark will not , however
, occur at cylinder tdc , because it is either 45* ahead of or 45* behind
the cylinder that is on the power stroke .
--
Snag_one , the motorcycle maniac
SENS BS132 DOF52
TOMKAT NEWT15
'76 FLH
74 CB750 rat
39 WL project bike
RMH FAQ's http://rmhfaq.com/
Ryder Rick
"Terry Coombs" <sna...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:JrPxc.15023$LC3....@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
Exactly right, my hot rod Merc has a coil per cylinder, but many other
models
have 2 cylinders on a coil (even fire, opposing cylinders).
My comment was to the unburned gas deal.
A spark is not needed as the temps are high enough for self ignition.
There is a lack of oxygen in the exhaust that prevents unburned HC from
igniting.
The air injection system introduces oxygen allowing any unburned
hydrocarbons to burn.
RickB
Matthew Lundberg
>
> Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires
> reversed, or at least not well. That's because, even though each
> cylinder fires with every revolution instead of every other revolution
> (if it's dual fire) they are still timed 45 degrees apart from
> eachother.
>
> Steve
Seems to me that the coil fires when its current is interrupted. It
fires both plugs then (single-fire excepted). The timing won't be
affected in the least by reversing the coil leads. Now, if you took
the actuator off of the camshaft and reversed it, you would have a
problem. But it's hard to do that by accident.
If you look at a points cam (from an old model), you'll notice that
the rear cylinder lobe is much wider than the front. The rear fires
45 degrees earlier. Sure, the rear lobe could just have been offset
to do the same thing, but that's how things are.
Hd36knuckl
>Gotta call you wrong on the timing issue . Why do ya think one point cam
>lobe is wider than the other ? It's to offset the point opening events 45*
>(of crankshaft rotation) from being exactly opposite . Taking into account
>that the camshaft runs at 1/2 the speed of the crank , the crankshaft will
>rotate 315* <spark> then 405*<spark> . The *wasted* spark will not , however
>, occur at cylinder tdc , because it is either 45* ahead of or 45* behind
>the cylinder that is on the power stroke .
>
>
Terry,
Argue all you want. The fact is one cylinder is a lil advanced and the other
is lil retarded. No big deal. They still run just fine.
Ryder Rick
"Matthew Lundberg" <m...@otherkids.com> wrote in message
news:564c8af.04061...@posting.google.com...
> ssba...@yawho.com (SSBassman) wrote in message
news:<40c64ada...@cnews.newsguy.com>...
> >
> > Seems to me that even with dual fire it shouldn't run with the wires
> > reversed, or at least not well. That's because, even though each
> > cylinder fires with every revolution instead of every other revolution
> > (if it's dual fire) they are still timed 45 degrees apart from
> > eachother.
> >
> > Steve
>
> Seems to me that the coil fires when its current is interrupted.
Exactly, when the circuit is opened the magnetic field generated by the
current collapses exciting the secondary winding creating the spark voltage.
> It
> fires both plugs then (single-fire excepted). The timing won't be
> affected in the least by reversing the coil leads. Now, if you took
> the actuator off of the camshaft and reversed it, you would have a
> problem. But it's hard to do that by accident.
>
> If you look at a points cam (from an old model), you'll notice that
> the rear cylinder lobe is much wider than the front. The rear fires
> 45 degrees earlier. Sure, the rear lobe could just have been offset
> to do the same thing, but that's how things are.
The wide lobe is to even out the dwell time on the coil.
RickB