S&S or RevTech engine...
david
I have had two custom bikes with S&S engines, and really liked them, not
trouble at all.
But I've seen many custom bikes with Rev Tech engines, but I don't know much
about them.
Can anyone tell me a little about Rev Tech? Would consider them better than
S&S?
Any information would be appreciated.
Thanks,
David
99 Custom Softail (113 S&S)
david
Tud
> Have a drink on me, I'll have dr pepper please.
> I have had two custom bikes with S&S engines, and really liked them, not
> trouble at all.
> But I've seen many custom bikes with Rev Tech engines, but I don't know
much
> about them.
I have no personal experience with RevTech engines, but do a google search
on this group and look up RecTech or RevCrap, or sdicato for that matter.
As for the custom bikes, I've seen them go in those OCC theme bikes, but how
many miles do you think are on those bikes? If you've had good luck with
S&S, why change? Tired of the dependable riding they've given you and
interested in sitting in the garage and not out in the wind, or perhaps you
live in the north and have nothing to rebuild over the winter?
> Thanks,
> David
> 99 Custom Softail (113 S&S)
--
Tud
AH#115 SENS BS#111 LFS#32 FLF MISFIT
'70 Triumph T120R Chopper
'72 Triumph T100R Project
http://ah115.com
conehead AH#10
wrote:
>I have had two custom bikes with S&S engines, and really liked them...
>99 Custom Softail (113 S&S)
I have no personal experience with any big aftermarket motors, but
David's question reminded me to ask one of my own. Just a few years
ago, evo-style strokers were 89 or 96 inches at the most. Something
like a 113 or a 124 was for the strip. Nowadays, you can buy built
motors bigger than the wildest opium dreams of 10 years ago right out
of Dennis Kirk. Was there some leap of technology that allows these
huge motors to be built? Or are they just not getting many miles, or
what? Obviously, the "custom" bike market is there to support these
motors being built, when they were not being built 10 years ago. So
was it just a change in the demand, or in the knowledge and
technology, or what? Tony? PiPPi?
conehead ah10
'90 FLHS '02 R1150R '78 R100RS
to email, change ruse to fuse
"From the sublime to the ridiculous is but a step." Napoleon B.
AH#49
david wrote:
>
> Have a drink on me, I'll have dr pepper please.
> I have had two custom bikes with S&S engines, and really liked them, not
> trouble at all.
> But I've seen many custom bikes with Rev Tech engines, but I don't know much
> about them.
> Can anyone tell me a little about Rev Tech? Would consider them better than
> S&S?
> Any information would be appreciated.
Same thing, only different.
Ct Jstr
>ago, evo-style strokers were 89 or 96 inches at the most. Something
>like a 113 or a 124 was for the strip. Nowadays, you can buy built
>motors bigger than the wildest opium dreams of 10 years ago right out
>of Dennis Kirk. Was there some leap of technology that allows these
>huge motors to be built? Or are they just not getting many miles, or
>what? Obviously, the "custom" bike market is there to support these
>motors being built, when they were not being built 10 years ago. So
>was it just a change in the demand, or in the knowledge and
>technology, or what? Tony? PiPPi?
>
>
>conehead ah10
Its mostly a matter of aftermarket cases being made to accomdate a bigger
bores. That took increasing the deck height. Their didn't used to be that much
of a market for that stuff. Its pretty expensive to make up a new casting just
for a few raised deck motor.
Don't take these numbers to the bank, but they're close. On stock evo cases,
you're pretty limited to 3 13/16 bore. You can still use stock deck heights,
which is something like 5 3/8. Any more bore, and you get too much
interference between the cylinder and piston skirts and you have too little
material on the right side of the cases, next to the tappet blocks. With 3
13/16 bore, even if you go all the way out to 5 1/4 stroke, you're still only
at 120ish, and who the hells wants to go that far on stroke on a gas motor.
Plus, you've got an extra tall motor to deal with.
When the companies started coming out with cases that could accomodate 4" or
more bore, they raised the decks and pushed the pinion side out .250. All my
motors have an extra .250 on the pinion.
Today with teh S & S stuff and others, you can go clear out to 4 1/4 bore and
get motors up to 131.
Twin cams are a whole different ball game. They start with a 4 inch bore and
go up, so the numbers can be correspondingly higher.
Snortsters are a whole different deal. I've heard people say they can push a
set of cases to accept a 4" bore, but I've never seen it. Biggest I've seen is
3 13/16. That's what Becky's bike has, with a 5" stroke, for a 113. I've got
a set of 5 1/4" S & S wheels for her to use when we get time to put it
together.
So the short answer is that its a change in demand. Technology is still old
world.
Did see an interesting set of cases from an austrailian company called
Renegade. They beat the problem of too little material next to the lifter
blocks by eliminating them and running the lifters in the castings. I havn't
seen any long term results, but the original materials looked pretty promising.
I've lost track of them so i have no idea if they are going forward.
Toni Froehling
www.CourtJesterRacing.com
Ryder Rick
"conehead AH#10" <mc...@ruse.net> wrote in message
news:402e766e....@news.fuse.net...
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 18:48:04 GMT, "david" <david....@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I have had two custom bikes with S&S engines, and really liked them...
> >99 Custom Softail (113 S&S)
>
> I have no personal experience with any big aftermarket motors, but
> David's question reminded me to ask one of my own. Just a few years
> ago, evo-style strokers were 89 or 96 inches at the most. Something
> like a 113 or a 124 was for the strip. Nowadays, you can buy built
> motors bigger than the wildest opium dreams of 10 years ago right out
> of Dennis Kirk. Was there some leap of technology that allows these
> huge motors to be built? Or are they just not getting many miles, or
> what? Obviously, the "custom" bike market is there to support these
> motors being built, when they were not being built 10 years ago. So
> was it just a change in the demand, or in the knowledge and
> technology, or what? Tony? PiPPi?
If you think about it, What makes a big motor cost more?
Nothing if all the parts are new.....
Yer payin for "Big Blue Sky"
Sure there will be a slight added expense, but it should not be a major
amount.
RickB
Ultrarider
Rev Tech has a pretty good two year warranty and all engines are test
fired before shipping. I don't know if that is the case with S&S. I
have "heard" good things about both.
Wallie Graus
Their is only one manufact with that experience in aftermarket
engines and that is S&S.
When i had to choose again it would be a twincam S&S.
--
Wallie Graus,
Redaktie Harley-Davidson Club Nederland.
Homepage: http://home.wxs.nl/~wgraus
E-Mail: H.D.C.N.Re...@wxs.nl of
Reda...@H-DCN.nl
Fax: +31(0)43-3580421.
"Ultrarider" <ajus...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:ac6d8a98.04022...@posting.google.com...
Stephen Nelson
RevTec motors and trannys are made in Korea. They use Timken
bearings, but the bearings are made in Korea...under license from
Timken. You can feel roughness in the bearings...compared to the
Timkins...made in USA. Don't feel the RevTec stuff will last...high
mileage.
S&S has quality control issues...right now. They are setting up
cylinder clearances as high as 5 thousands. If you want a S&S
motor...buy it unassembled, with the cylinders...unbored. Have a good
engine builder, bore and assemble motor. You will be way ahead of the
game.
Stephen Nelson
Stephen Nelson
Sorry about the prior top post...just changed my settings.
Stephen Nelson
Ct Jstr
>cylinder clearances as high as 5 thousands. If you want a S&S
>motor...buy it unassembled, with the cylinders...unbored. Have a good
>engine builder, bore and assemble motor. You will be way ahead of the game
Man that's the first time I've EVER heard that. Plus I've never seen it in a
lot of years of dealing with S & S. I believe they recently went to Wiseco for
pistons, but even with Wiseco's I've never seen that kind of variation.
Its pretty well documented that Merch was having similar clearance problems,
and I've seen some assembled motors from dealers have that much clearance cuz
the tech didn't bother checking stuff, but its a surprise hearing that
complaint about S & S. Care to share where that info came from?
Toni Froehling
www.CourtJesterRacing.com
Stephen Nelson
We ordered a unassembled S&S 100 inch 4X4 motor (3 months ago). When
my engine builder measured the cylinders...he found a piston to cylinder
clearance of 4 thousands. The customer wanted a tight motor and was
willing to break it in right. We called S&S and they said to send them
back...so they could look at them and they would drop ship us another
set of cylinders and pistons (they wanted the pistons back also). The
new set arrived and one of the cylinders was out 5 thousands and was
also 3 thousands...out of round.
We called S&S again...and they said my engine builder, did not know
how to measure cylinders ( he has built over 75 evo motors and builds
some of the quickest motors in northern California and they also last).
We told them to ships us cylinders...unbored and sent the second set
back to them. When they got the second set back...they said both set of
cylinders where good.
The next S&S news letter we got, had an article in it about the only
way you could measure S&S cylinders...was with their torque plates. So
we ordered a set and it made no difference when we measured the the
third set of cylinders...before and after boring. I guess if S&S had to
write it up in their newsletter...they have a number of shops calling
them about how they are boring their cylinders. My engine builder
thinks they are doing so many cylinders per day...that they are getting
them too hot. It's about how many they get done per day.
Just recently we have heard that S&S is going to charge $300 dollars
more for a unassembled motor...than a assembled motor. Guess they are
going to have someone mike everything...before they ship it.
Don't get me wrong...I have used S&S products since 1975. They have
their ups and downs. Remember the S&S Two throat carb (smile) that was
a winner. I just cannot recommend S&S assembled motors to my
customers. Also I forgot to mention, three of the valves in the
heads...leaked when you poured gas into the ports. So I guess they just
grind the seats and don't check if they are seated....any more. Don't
need a S&S tool to measure if the valves are seated all the way. Old
fashioned way works just fine <S>.
Sorry for so long a post.
Stephen Nelson
Redwood Choppers
Willits, CA
dual45s
"Stephen Nelson" <sjne...@infostations.com> wrote in message
news:403DBC41...@infostations.com...
> Ct Jstr wrote:
snip all
> Sorry for so long a post.
Don't be sorry - interesting information.
--
Wayne
AH 52, SENS, BS 238
Easy
"dual45s" <dua...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:dIm%b.168438$Po1....@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Stephen Nelson" <sjne...@infostations.com> wrote in message
> news:403DBC41...@infostations.com...
> > Ct Jstr wrote:
>
> snip all
>
> > Sorry for so long a post.
>
> Don't be sorry - interesting information.
really, and spelled correctly, with punctuation and everything.
think larry hardy was paying attention?
--
Easy, #39
Spunky the Tuna
Don't apologize. It's really nice to have someone who says there's a
problem with something and then is willing to say why it's so. I, for
one, appreciate it. Mostly what happens on the 'net is that somebody
will just post something about 'S&S sucks, man!' and that's the last you
hear of them.
So, you guys got a web page where those of us who aren't local to you can
see your work?
--
Spunky the Tuna
AH62 BS69 SENS DOF#R LSMFT EIEIO PDQ op cit
always looking for ideas and quality work...
Ryder Rick
"Stephen Nelson" <sjne...@infostations.com> wrote in message
news:403DBC41...@infostations.com...
> The next S&S news letter we got, had an article in it about the only
> way you could measure S&S cylinders...was with their torque plates. So
> we ordered a set and it made no difference when we measured the the
> third set of cylinders...before and after boring. I guess if S&S had to
> write it up in their newsletter...they have a number of shops calling
> them about how they are boring their cylinders. My engine builder
> thinks they are doing so many cylinders per day...that they are getting
> them too hot. It's about how many they get done per day.
>
Even a cast iron car motor has heat issues during boring operations. I've
seen John bore every other cylinder and have a fan blowing on one. I've also
seen him take 2 days to bore a block, doing one cylinder at a time and
allowing cooling time in between.
The torque plate deal I find very hard to believe. We have motors that
cannot be bored without a torque plate, they also have to be honed at 180 -
190 degrees. We have motors that will not turn over when they are cold, they
have to be pre-heated before they can be started. Where were the
measurements in question being taken? And remember only the upper half of
the cylinder matters (for ring seal) 'cause the pistons grow so much they
would stick in the cylinders without the oil film.
See APBMH for pics of 5000 mile cylinders that had piston clearances too
tight. These were bored with a torque plate to mfg. specs with HE pistons.
http://www.flatlanderracing.com/kb_hyper.html
http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Products/307/ There is no scoring, just
pre-mature wear from the piston swelling and putting too much pressure on
the cylinder walls. If this motor had had any oiling problems or high
temperatures it would have self destructed.
Since the motors in question (S&S 4x4, Merch Monster) are big bore motors,
they need more clearance than a stock bore size. So S&S may in fact know
what they are talking about. The numbers don't mean shit by themselves,
unless they are taken in context.
RickB
SDicato
>From: ctj...@aol.com (Ct Jstr)
>Date: 2/26/2004 2:24 AM Atlantic Standard Time
>Message-id: <20040226012448...@mb-m17.aol.com>
Ct Jstr
>kind of clearences, even the bearings are at 2k+
>
I've seen the bearing issue, although i've not seen one with .002 clearance,
but I sure havn't seen that kind of piston to cylinder wall clearance. learn
something new every day I suspect.
Toni Froehling
www.CourtJesterRacing.com