Turn signal switch, push on push off for pre-81
john....@whispergraphics.com
First off a round for all.
I figure while I'm waiting for my new solid lifters to arrive and my head to
get back form the local shop where bolt holes are getting welded and
re-threaded, I would take care of some of the other stuff I wanted to do...
I've run out of aluminum to polish and rust spots on my frame to touch-up.
So now I have to find something else to mess with...
Ole Crazy Judy's an 80 FLT with those nice little round pushbutton switches
for my turn signals. But the turn signals only stay on when I hold it down
(and yes, I've finally gotten them all working thanks to everyone here on
some earlier threads!). What I would like is to be able to turn my switch
into a push on push off type. I haven't been able to find a switch that does
this, so I figure I need to stick a latching relay in the circuit to make
this happen... but I've been away from basic electronics so darn long that
I can't figure out whether I need a single-pole-double-throw or
double-pole-double-throw. Any help would be appreciated!
Oh and how would I wire it into the circuit?
God Bless America and you and yours,
--
John F. Freund
1980 FLT (aka Crazy Judy)
Whisper Graphics
http://www.whispergraphics.com
Roger Elmore
>Hey, look another turn signal switch thread fomr me! Ain't that amzing?
I'm in. Let's get to it!
>First off a round for all.
Thank ye, seeing as the other flasher guy wasn't buyin'.
<snipin'>
>Ole Crazy Judy's an 80 FLT with those nice little round pushbutton switches
>for my turn signals. What I would like is to be able to turn my switch
>into a push on push off type. I haven't been able to find a switch that does
>this, so I figure I need to stick a latching relay in the circuit to make
>this happen... but I've been away from basic electronics so darn long that
>I can't figure out whether I need a single-pole-double-throw or
>double-pole-double-throw. Any help would be appreciated!
There is a Standard Automotive relay available, but it's pricey at
about $25 bucks each and you'll probably need 2. I've seen them in
Midwest and MidUSA catalogs, take a peek at
http://www.foghollow.com
and get to their catalog page and use 16405 as the part number in a
search. That looks like a common "Bosch Type" terminal configuration,
so most likely a SPDT.
>Oh and how would I wire it into the circuit?
I'll work on it, but I have to leave and help set up a stage for a
company picnic (MTD, the lawnmower folks) the university is hosting.
Free polish sausages, burgers and funnel cakes this weekend! (Urrrp!)
>God Bless America and you and yours,
Amen to that! <clink>
--
Roger
Whatzit BS#150 SENS
www.utm.edu/~relmore/Whatzit
73sportster
<john....@whispergraphics.com> wrote:
> Hey, look another turn signal switch thread fomr me! Ain't that amzing?
>
> First off a round for all.
Oh good, I was thirsty!
<snip happens>
> Ole Crazy Judy's an 80 FLT with those nice little round pushbutton switches
> for my turn signals. But the turn signals only stay on when I hold it down
> (and yes, I've finally gotten them all working thanks to everyone here on
> some earlier threads!). What I would like is to be able to turn my switch
> into a push on push off type.\
My bike has that kind of turn signals. I know it's sacreligious (?)
but you could find a set from a Yamaha XS650, or similar.
> I haven't been able to find a switch that does this, so I figure I
> need to stick a latching relay in the circuit to make this happen...
> but I've been away from basic electronics so darn long that I can't
> figure out whether I need a single-pole-double-throw or
> double-pole-double-throw. Any help would be appreciated!
You done got what help I could offer.
> Oh and how would I wire it into the circuit?
>
>
> God Bless America and you and yours,
Same to you.
Rosie, sens
Gopher
the delay. Almost like a new bike!
Gopher
'79 FLHassle (No stinking turn signals)
Roger Elmore
>> Ole Crazy Judy's an 80 FLT with those nice little round pushbutton
>> switches for my turn signals. But the turn signals only stay on when
>> into a push on push off type.
> Gopher wrote:
>You could just put a delay off timer in the circuit. Hit the button, it
>runs for the delay. Almost like a new bike!
I was thinking of that too. There are electronic timer kits that run
around $11. Elk and Altronics make delay timers for alarm systems,
but they cost around as much as the relays. In either case you would
have to worry about getting them shock-proofed (potting them with
epoxy?). Badlands makes a turn signal delay/load equalizer (with
instructions!) for around $70, but it's preset for 10 seconds which
seems short.
Aside from the delay, another thought is a push on-push off switch
like a Radio Shack 275-1555 or an NKK MB265SS1W01, but that would
require cutting of the strap that holds the current pushbuttons secure
inside the housing, and the new switches would stick out because the
threaded mounting bushing needs a nut on the front of the cover. And
you should probably buffer those with a relay since they're only rated
3-6 amps.
Personally, I'd bite the bullet and go with the latching relays for
reliability sake since they're built for road vehicles and it's
someone else's bike. If it were my own, I might dink around with a
555 timer and some SCRs on a circuit board and toss it in the
headlight housing, but then I'd know how to defeat it and get my turn
signals back running with the pushbuttons if it went toes up on the
road.
Then again, the KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) principle is not without
it's merits...
Wally Crow
wrote:
>
>Personally, I'd bite the bullet and go with the latching relays for
>reliability sake since they're built for road vehicles and it's
>someone else's bike. If it were my own, I might dink around with a
>555 timer and some SCRs on a circuit board and toss it in the
>headlight housing, but then I'd know how to defeat it and get my turn
>signals back running with the pushbuttons if it went toes up on the
>road.
Yeah, like you have room for any more shit in the headlight bucket.
<sfsf>
Coming to Arkansas in a couple of weeks?
Wally Crow
'74 Sporty chop
'84 S-10 4x4
ASE Master Auto Tech.
Chevy Master Tech Y2K
TOMKAT SENS BS#133 DOF#51
Roadie Roger
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2001 23:29:11 -0500, Roger Elmore <relmo...@utm.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Personally, I'd bite the bullet and go with the latching relays for
> >reliability sake since they're built for road vehicles and it's
> >someone else's bike. If it were my own, I might dink around with a
> >555 timer and some SCRs on a circuit board and toss it in the
> >headlight housing, but then I'd know how to defeat it and get my turn
> >signals back running with the pushbuttons if it went toes up on the
> >road.
>
> Yeah, like you have room for any more shit in the headlight bucket.
> <sfsf>
I'm guessing from your description that your turn signal button is
a single pole normally open switch. It provides a contact closure
when it is held in. The switches I am familiar with close with a
push (left or right) and open with another push (straight in). You
are headed off the beaten path into science fair territory. From
your description you are looking for a latching relay. Also know
as bi-stable or magnetic latching or pulse relay. If you have
separate left and right buttons, you'll need two relays. Pulse
relays don't have the best of reputations as they are difficult to
debug when they fail (pulse comes and goes quickly). I've stayed
away from them myself. Still game? An example of this type is
Potter & Brumfield S89R bi-stable impulse relay.
<http://www.pandbrelays.com/datasheets/GP_Power_Relays/S8990_DS.pdf>
Hook up the pulse relay to provide voltage when the turn signal
indicator is pressed. It should toggle on and off once for every
press. The contacts can be used to send voltage to your relay
flasher or turn signal bulb. As with all relay projects, use a
diode across the coil to clamp spikes and put a fuse in front of
the circuit in case things go wrong. You'll want to jury rig this
in to test it, before spending a lot of time neatening things up.
Relays are mechanical and may work better when mounted horizontally
or vertically depending on the specifics of the relay. Ya' know
this is starting to sound like real work.
Good luck!
Roadie Roger
Roger Elmore
>>If it were my own, I might dink around with a
>>555 timer and some SCRs on a circuit board and toss it in the
>>headlight housing
>Wally Crow wrote:
>Yeah, like you have room for any more shit in the headlight bucket.
><sfsf>
Man, I got room for a ham and cheese and sixpack in there, what you
talking about?
>Coming to Arkansas in a couple of weeks?
I doubt it, things have been so hectic if I ever do get a weekend off
I may just sleep.
And HF(belated)B, you DOF.
Roger Elmore
> You are headed off the beaten path into science fair territory.
> Ya' know this is starting to sound like real work.
The P&B relay is an open frame, I wouldn't trust it on a bike myself.
The Standard brand has a cover, made for automotive applications, and
a better bet. I worked with John getting his signals working as
stock, and I've figured this modification out, but the original Visio
drawing I made of his turn signal wiring is at home so I need to get
to it and change it to show him how to hook them up. Pretty much a
retrofit with no cutting of the original wires.
James Rook (Hazy)
wrote:
>>Roadie Roger wrote:
You might want to take a look at this flasher relay - a bit pricey but
it may be a much simpler way to do what you want. I use the Badlands
module myself.
http://www.kisantech.com/signal.html
Hazy
Reply to: ha...@jagunet.com
Paul's Law: You can't fall off the floor.
Memnoch - 79 FXS Trike
Rheannon - 86 Sporster Trike
Web Page at http://www.jagunet.com/~hazy
Cognito Ergo Dolieo - I think, therefore my head hurts
Roger Elmore
>You might want to take a look at this flasher relay - a bit pricey but
>it may be a much simpler way to do what you want. I use the Badlands
>module myself.
>http://www.kisantech.com/signal.html
I figure this would work well with alternating (push on/push off)
switches, but John's are the '73-'80-something round momentary
pushbuttons. From looking at it, it's a flasher with a timed cut-off.
IOW, he'd still have to keep the button's pressed in to keep it
flashing, even up to it's preset time-out. I don't read anything in
the specs that state it will take a momentary pulse and begin flashing
until the end of the timing cycle, instead it says the HD switches are
*push on type* so I'm assuming it's looking for steady current to it
to operate as advertised.
Roger Elmore
>Oh and how would I wire it into the circuit?
Here we go, under these assumptions:
#1: The circuit I originally posted is correct for your
turn signal wiring and color code.
http://www.utm.edu/~relmore/Whatzit/80simple.gif
#2: The Standard brand relay (Midwest PN 17-116 or MidUSA
PN 16045, available at your local independent) is of the
standard "Bosch type" terminal configuration.
My '78 back parts catalog indicates that the "hazard" toggle
has slide-on QD terminals rather than a socket or screw
terminals. Therefore if space allows you to mount the 2 new
relays near the same area, you may not have to cut and
splice anything. You will disconnect the *turn* flasher
from the circuit and tie its 2 wires together. The *hazard*
flasher will now serve for both turn and hazard functions.
The only additional wires needed will be for grounding each
of the relay's coils. The hazard toggle switch will no
longer function. Hazard operation will be obtained by
pressing both buttons to latch their relays into the "on"
position.
http://www.utm.edu/~relmore/Whatzit/80latching.gif
Be sure to check that the terminal configuration is like the
one shown in the blue box. If not, you will have to swap
wires around so that they go to the correct places on the
relay. Good luck, remove the "STOP" from my email addy if
you need anything else.
James Rook (Hazy)
wrote:
>> "James Rook (Hazy)" wrote:
I'm not sure about this particular flasher, but my 79 has the same
style of switches you're describing (the little round momentary type,
72 to 84). The Badlands module will flash for a set time (about 7 to
10 seconds) with just a single push, don't need to hold it in. I would
think since the flasher has an adjustable timer it would work the same
way.
john....@whispergraphics.com
Once again Roger you are the man!
I would like to publicly recognize your assistance and help. You have
solved several wiring coinfusions up for me and without anything more thna
virtual drink for your troubles.
Thank you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.
It's so good to find people willling to help in these troubled times. Hell,
it was so refreshing to have your help on the first question before any of
these recent events.
Have I said Thanks yet? Oh and please, anything your drinking this week is
on me!
Roger Elmore
>>>You might want to take a look at this flasher relay <url>
>>Roger Elmore wrote:
>> I don't read anything in the specs that state it will take a
>>momentary pulse and begin flashing
>"James Rook (Hazy)" wrote:
>I'm not sure about this particular flasher,
Me neither, and they're sparse on info on the website to be asking
more than the Badlands unit! BTW, if you missed my original reply, I
mentioned the $70 Badlands unit you have as an option to the two $25
Standard relays.
Roger Elmore
>><snip the wiring how-to>
>john....@whispergraphics.com wrote:
>Once again Roger you are the man!
>It's so good to find people willling to help in these troubled times.
Well, if you haven't heard the story, back in the late '70s I swapped
wiring jobs on choppers and rebuilds for old stock parts to put
together most of my bike. Of course most could be done with about 5
wires. I've always been amazed at all the connectors HD used, even
back then, to do the job. But I guess it's understandable since they
were looking to remove stuff as a unit. Currently my bike has only
one plug/socket on it, so the rear fender can come off. Otherwise
everything is point to point.