Panhead too much oil to top-end question

[Clint Jensen]

Greetings,

Have a round or two on me. The tab is on me.

Got a question / problem.

I have a 1961 big twin. Just put a 4.5" stroker set of wheels in it and big
bore jugs. 93" is about what she is now. She fires right up and sounds
fine. Runs like a scalded dog. Got plenty of low end grunt and pulls like a
train.

I put a revtech oil pump in it as part of the redo. Really shiney chrome
do-dad. Looks good on the bike.

The 61 is an inside oiler for the heads. The jugs were aftermarket
Schumacher (sp?), aluminum, with no provision for inside oiling. So, I
tapped the plug that goes on the cam cover (the plug that is on the top of
the timing cover on the far left side while looking at the engine, just
forward and slightly above the oil pump).

After tapping the plug, I put in a NPT 1/8" hose barb, ran a hose up to a
tee and from the tee, it went into the heads. I had to drill and tap the
heads to put in a 1/8 hose barb for the oil lines. I hid the outside oiler
line behind the carb support bracket, so, to the untrained eye, it would
hardly be noticable.

Oil pressure has never been better. At idle, about 25 PSI and while running
about 45 PSI, although I have not run it that far to get the engine all that
hot, so the oil pressure may settle down to less than that in a really hot
day. Before, with the stock pump, it was a good day if I could actually see
oil pressure at idle after it warmed up. Note that before, with the stock
cast iron pump, the low oil pressure idiot light never came on once the
engine was started. Even at very low, put-put idle.

However, once I get back from riding, it drains oil out of the breather
tube, a *LOT* of oil after it has set for 30 minutes or so. I *think* what
is happening is that the cylinder heads are filling up with oil since it is
not draining out fast enough, and then as it sets, the oil drains into the
crank case and then out of the breather tube. The next morning, I fire it
up and a few ounces of oil come out of the breather tube and then it is
fine. Of course, I need to dump a quart or so into the oil bag to account
for the oil that dumped on the floor the day before.

So, I think there is too much oil going to the heads, way more then what can
be drained out normally.

I heard about some sort of 'restricters' that can be put in the outside
oiler lines to mitigate that, but I am wondering how much oil to the heads
is enough, but not too much. Is there some other way to adjust the revtech
pump somehow or did I convert to outside oiler the incorrect way.

Anyway, between rounds, if anyone has any thoughts, suggestions, I would
love to hear them.

Cheers,

CJ
==

[Phil Kangas]

"Clint Jensen" <> wrote in message > Greetings,

1. Are the rocker arm clearances within spec?
Higher oil pump
pressure will accelerate the leakage, eih?

2.

[Clint Jensen]

"Phil Kangas" <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote in message
news:ks20hr$vad$1...@dont-email.me...

umm. Good question. The valves, guides and seats were gone through just
prior to the
conversion to 93", but the rockers were not touched. Probably a good idea
to have a look see
at them.

Thanks.

[Phil Kangas]

"Clint Jensen" <diver...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
news:JrWdnZjJ44h1BHjM...@earthlink.com...

Not much input to your problem here, eih Clint?
Or did I nail it and no more needs to be said...
;>)}

[sn...@trippin.com]

It's more like there isn't enough info to make an informed diagnosis.
His oil pressure is *way* too fucking high. Th' OP seems to think
higher is better... it's not. Th' first thing he should do is contact
Revtech to find out how to get that pressure dialed back down into th'
normal operating range. Rocker arm clearances ain't gonna have fuck
all to do with th' dia of th' drain passages. They can only allow X
amount of oil to circulate through th' system. His bike has clogged
arteries and needs his pacemaker turned down.

If he runs that bike long enough *all* of th' oil will be in th' top
end just before it starts making really expensive noises.

Snarl... they call that flat lined

[Phil Kangas]

<sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message
news:kssqu8pcu7j1ldm9b...@4ax.com...

Rocker arm clearance has everything to do with
available
drain passage capacity! That pressure is _not_ the
problem!
I've been running a '70 Shovel with 84" S&S
stroker kit and
S&S oil pump running that pressure range for 25
fucking
years with no problems like Clint has. Keep your
fucking
mitts off my bike, snarl! Phil K.

[sn...@trippin.com]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:27:49 -0400, "Phil Kangas"
<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:

><sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message

<whack>

>Rocker arm clearance has everything to do with
>available
>drain passage capacity! That pressure is _not_ the
>problem!
>I've been running a '70 Shovel with 84" S&S
>stroker kit and
>S&S oil pump running that pressure range for 25
>fucking
>years with no problems like Clint has.

<yawn>

>Keep your fucking
>mitts off my bike, snarl! Phil K.

Don't worry, binky, I don't work on newbies bar hoppers anyway.

Clint's oil pressure should be between 30-36 psi at 55 mph when warm.
Warm engine idle around 10 psi. Cold start around 44 psi. He's
nowhere close to those numbers. Methinks he's got th' wrong pressure
relief spring. Revtech would prolly know. It's one of those "what
did you do last" questions a wrench asks when shit changes... like
puttin' on a new oil pump for example. Or his rings didn't seat
correctly, those are new too. Like I said not enough info to make an
informed diagnosis.

If you wanna flex yer fuckin' keyboard go here and 'splain it to these
guys: http://ertproducts.com/WET_SUMPING.html It appears you need to
tell 'em all about wet sumping and rocker arm clearances.

By th' by, binky, I designed, patented, and manufactured, a high flow
air intake system for Evo's and Twin cams. Incorporating an integral
oil blow-by passage into th' casting was one of th' most difficult
aspects of th' tooling to make th' castings. Some of th' regulars in
here have been runnin' 'em for years now. Spent a day er two
researchin' this wet sumping bullshit. You?

Snarl

[Phil Kangas]

<sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message
news:gfrtu810t8h8vk21a...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:27:49 -0400, "Phil
> Kangas"
> <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
>
>><sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message
>

> Don't worry, binky, I don't work on newbies bar
> hoppers anyway.
>

> By th' by, binky, I designed, patented, and
> manufactured>

> Snarl
>

You sure are an arrogant little pipsqueak aren't
you!
Can't stand to hear an alternate position without
reverting to sarcasm, eih? You're a jackass!
Phil k.

[sn...@trippin.com]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2013 21:49:40 -0400, "Phil Kangas"

<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:

><sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message
>news:gfrtu810t8h8vk21a...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 22:27:49 -0400, "Phil
>> Kangas"
>> <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
>>
>>><sn...@trippin.com> wrote in message
>>
>> Don't worry, binky, I don't work on newbies bar
>> hoppers anyway.
> >
>> By th' by, binky, I designed, patented, and
>> manufactured>
>

>You sure are an arrogant little pipsqueak aren't
>you!

Not at all, it's not arrogance if you can actually do it. A patent is
proof that someone had an original thought. It requires critical
thinking skills. It also requires thorough research into design
aspects that have multiple weak links which can promote symptoms like
wet sumping when one (or more) fails. Which in turn requires
predetermined solutions that are fine tuned via th' prototyping stage
of development.

Manufacturing said product requires skill sets, and success means
making a product people will actually buy. It happened sooner than
I'd hoped, but part of that design was stolen by a company that had
bigger lawyers than me. They call it a Big Sucker.

Have you ever had an original thought, binky?

>Can't stand to hear an alternate position without
>reverting to sarcasm, eih? You're a jackass!

'Th lady doth protest too much methinks' - Shakespeare. And just in
case yer not a fan of his writings, nor even understand WTF that
means, there's a newer version of it that boils th' entire thing down
into one word; 'projection' - Freud. That one you can look up and
maybe find someone to 'splain it to ya.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6hatnzg

Pound sand, binky.

Snarl

[Phil Kangas]

Arrogance is bragging about something you
did that has nothing to do with the original
question. Clint only wanted to know why
his top end was filling up with oil and you
went off on some long winded tangent
bragging about your accomplishments.
As I see it, the only way that top end
could be filling up was the oil 'leaking' out
of the rocker shaft. There is no other
source! Perhaps there is a problem with
drainage and that should be looked into too.
So what if you have talent, many of us do.
We only discuss it when asked. It's your
attitude that I find so disgusting. btw, I've
been 'on the wagon' for 25 years now and
don't miss the alcohol buzz one bit. So you
go 'pound sand', your highness.... ;>)}

[sn...@trippin.com]

On Thu, 25 Jul 2013 18:05:35 -0400, "Phil Kangas"
<pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:

>Arrogance is bragging about something you
>did that has nothing to do with the original
>question.

Your projection problem is bizzaro.

<whack>

>btw, I've
>been 'on the wagon' for 25 years now and
>don't miss the alcohol buzz one bit.

Th' irony meter just imploded... we were talkin' about wet sumping,
your arrogancy.

Do I need to get out th' big Crayola Crayons and draw ya a picture of
what pound fucking sand looks like?

Snarl

[Phil Kangas]

So what exactly should Clint do to solve
his problem? And lowering the oil pressure
5 pounds won't help....
We're waiting.........answer the question.

[Phil Boutros]

Phil Kangas <pka...@upalphacomm.net> wrote:
> Arrogance is bragging about something you
> did that has nothing to do with the original
> question.

Arrogance is also still thinking you're right when someone who
actually knows what he or she is talking about explains to you why
you're wrong.

> Clint only wanted to know why
> his top end was filling up with oil and you
> went off on some long winded tangent
> bragging about your accomplishments.
> As I see it, the only way that top end
> could be filling up was the oil 'leaking' out
> of the rocker shaft.

Er...what? The rocker shaft to bushing clearance affects oil
pressure, not volume. The same amount of oil is going to make it to
the top end, and that is dictated by the oil pump. Just because
that's "as you see it", doesn't make it so. A shaft can't "leak" oil
into the top end.

> There is no other
> source!

Is that so? Does the rocker shaft send the oil to the top end?
If not, it makes it, by definition, not the source.

> Perhaps there is a problem with
> drainage and that should be looked into too.

Yes, it certainly should. If the top end if not scavenging its oil
quickly enough, either it is a drainage problem, or a problem with the
return side of the oil pump (if the return can't keep up due to
something like broken return gears, the oil will back up as far as it
can and eventually sump). There's a reason why the return side of an
oil pump is always bigger than the feed side, and that is precisely
it.

> So what if you have talent, many of us do.

Understanding oiling systems is apparently not one of them.

> We only discuss it when asked. It's your
> attitude that I find so disgusting.

That's a shame. We don't know who you are, why should we care
about what you think about anybody here's attitude?

> btw, I've
> been 'on the wagon' for 25 years now and
> don't miss the alcohol buzz one bit. So you
> go 'pound sand', your highness.... ;>)}

Lighten up, Francis.


Phil
--
AH#61 Wolf#14 BS#89 bus#1 CCB#1 SENS KOTC#4 ph...@philb.ca
http://philb.ca EKIII rides with me: http://eddiekieger.com

[Phil Kangas]

"Clint Jensen" <
> wrote in message Greetings,

Hi Clint. Looks like you've had a month to work
out this
problem and some of us are curious as to what you
did or found to solve it. Report?