"HOG"
John Makel
my membership. Four(4) issues of the Enthusiast maybe
a 8 dollar value, a patch maybe a 4 dollar value, and
a pin maybe a 2 dollar value and a road atlas maybe
a 8 dollar value.
Adds up to maybe $20.00 at most, towing you say,
Midwest Mutual in my touring package pays up to
$200.00 to have your sled taken to a shop for repair.
I think HD offers about $50.00 for the tow bill.
And in Midwest I pay no coin outta my pocket for the tow,
HOG well they reimburse you.
HOG offers me all these new friends, didn't know that
being a HOG member made "us" immediate friends.
Cup a coffee with? Hey I can have that at work or with
"my favorite person" in the world on a Saturday or Sunday
morning.
So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
I think the $40.00 would be better spent on new parts, a script
to Iron Horse, American Iron, Hot Rod Harleys, Hot Bike
or some other rag that has all Harleys in em rather than the
YUP stuff in the Enthusiast.
Whatcha think? Buy or Fly? Enquiring minds wanna know
what this group thinks-you think its worth that $40.00 bucks
or is an elitist throw of the coin down the pot to be recognized?
I got till the end of the month to say "YEA" or "NAY".
Any EX-HOG Members wanna get in on this one?
Wonder if Harley-Davidson, is reading this newsgroup and gonna
"sue" us all for telling what we know about HD, and using their
Trademark name in the header?
Whats the world coming to.
You know folks, I often wondered, if they had the nerve to
call a ride the "Fat Boy" why they don't come out with a
ride called the "Fat Girl", bet all them bra burning babes
would bend their ears EH???-8)...
Would be awful funny rolling into the bar and grill, someone
asking you what you rode, and the reply was a "Fat Girl".
Bet some of you would be a looking EH???
And just how well does she ride?-8)...
Now guys whats it feel like riding a "Fat Boy" do you use
stirrups? HA!!!-8)...
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
Jim Combs
John Makel <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|> Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
|> my membership. Four(4) issues of the Enthusiast maybe
|> a 8 dollar value, a patch maybe a 4 dollar value, and
|> a pin maybe a 2 dollar value and a road atlas maybe
|> a 8 dollar value.
|> Adds up to maybe $20.00 at most, towing you say,
|> Midwest Mutual in my touring package pays up to
|> $200.00 to have your sled taken to a shop for repair.
|> I think HD offers about $50.00 for the tow bill.
|> And in Midwest I pay no coin outta my pocket for the tow,
|> HOG well they reimburse you.
|> HOG offers me all these new friends, didn't know that
|> being a HOG member made "us" immediate friends.
|> Cup a coffee with? Hey I can have that at work or with
|> "my favorite person" in the world on a Saturday or Sunday
|> morning.
|> So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
I think you've covered it. Except for the 10% discount. Might
make a difference depending on where ya buy your oil, etc.
|> Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
|> I think the $40.00 would be better spent on new parts, a script
|> to Iron Horse, American Iron, Hot Rod Harleys, Hot Bike
|> or some other rag that has all Harleys in em rather than the
|> YUP stuff in the Enthusiast.
|> Whatcha think? Buy or Fly? Enquiring minds wanna know
Sounds as tho you've answered your own question (for your situation)
but there outta be others wondering about the same thing.
|> what this group thinks-you think its worth that $40.00 bucks
|> or is an elitist throw of the coin down the pot to be recognized?
Can a sense of belonging be bought? Not for me, but perhaps for others (?).
[snipped the rest]
------------------==/ Jim Combs / '91 XLH 1200 / jimc...@bnr.ca /==----
matthew casserino
: asking you what you rode, and the reply was a "Fat Girl".
: ASSHOLE#3 john...
Aint never ridden a "Fat Girl" John.... But I got me one hell
of a "Road Princess" ;^) She's got a pretty narrow glide on'er...
big-inch stroker...with fat-bobs up high 8^) She's a bit slow in
the twisties....but goes like hell in a straight line 8^)
Yep.....love'er, best ride I ever had... wouldn't trade'er in
fer the world!! Taker over my Sporty any day ;^)
Later...
Matt..
George Grevera
: [stuff about "to hog or not to hog - that is the
: question" deleted]
Hey, John. Hot in Pitt? It is in Philthy.
Anyway, I didn't renew HOG this year. They raised the
price $5, dropped Ms. Harley-Davidstone, the local
chapter raised it $5, and the local dealer reduced the
discount from 10% to 5%. Another minor piss-off was
last year when they moved the hog booth from the factory
at York during the open house to some Holiday Inn down
the road. The traffic was murder so I didn't get the
pin for my daughter.
Read the fine print for that tow deal. It says that
you must be at least 50 miles away from home. I found
out the hard way.
Seems like a lot of money for absolutely nothing to me.
Sort of like those 1 or 2 year deposits people can't wait
to leave at the dealers.
That's my $0.02.
Any opinions on ABATE?
goa...@onramp.net
John Makel <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
>my membership. Four(4) issues of the Enthusiast maybe
>a 8 dollar value, a patch maybe a 4 dollar value, and
>a pin maybe a 2 dollar value and a road atlas maybe
>a 8 dollar value.
Maybe those are fair market values, but as far as value to me goes, the whole
kit and kaboodle may be worth $2, as I don't go in for patches, pins or the
magazine. Yah, I'd rather read one of the rags.
>Adds up to maybe $20.00 at most, towing you say,
>Midwest Mutual in my touring package pays up to
>$200.00 to have your sled taken to a shop for repair.
>I think HD offers about $50.00 for the tow bill.
>And in Midwest I pay no coin outta my pocket for the tow,
>HOG well they reimburse you.
Good point. If you have a towing package already then HOG's doesn't give you
any added value.
>HOG offers me all these new friends, didn't know that
>being a HOG member made "us" immediate friends.
I've met some nice people, but none I'd call "friends" yet.
Been on some of the rides, too, which can be fun, but I'm more of a lone wolf,
so that isn't so important to me, either.
>So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
>Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
...
>Whatcha think? Buy or Fly? Enquiring minds wanna know
The main (only) reason I'm in HOG is to get the 10% discount on parts and
accessories. This year I've dropped a whole lot of $ on parts, etc., to get
my new sled into a form that is more fun to ride. I've checked around the
local parts shops and compared prices and, although your situation may be
different, what I've discovered where I live is that, with the 10% discount,
for the most part I can get the best prices at my local HD shop. Sounds
wierd, maybe, but it's true.
Yah, the $40 has paid for itself several times over just on that basis. Now,
maybe I won't be spending so much each year, now that I've got Xerxes fixed up
pretty much the way I want him, but you never know. I don't think you're ever
_completely_ satisfied with the way you've got your sled fixed up, or maybe
there's something new you wanna try out. Who knows? So, I intend to keep the
membership up for the forseeable future, just for the discount.
You've got to make your own decision based on your situation.
Lata
John Makel
Excerpts from netnews.rec.motorcycles.harley: 4-Aug-95 Re: "HOG" George
Grevera@gradient. (912)
> Read the fine print for that tow deal. It says that
> you must be at least 50 miles away from home. I found
> out the hard way.
I am in agreement with you too George, I think me and HOG
may be over...Maybe there is a statues in being a HOG Member,
whatcha think Bamm Bamm?
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
John Makel
> You've got to make your own decision based on your situation
Thats the point, if you can use that 10% then its may be worth it,
but thats only good here at the shop where you are a HOG member.
Since I ain't a HOG Chapter Member no more, I guess the
$40.00 is money down the drains...
Anyone else with any ideas on this-what about you Bamm Bamm?
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
Mark Cronenweth
>Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
>my membership.
[edited]
>So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
>Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
Well John knows how I feel about this since we talked about it before, but I
will let the rest of you folks in on my opinion. I "upgraded" to a life
membership several years ago when HOG was still worth something. Since then
all those free memberships to new buyers have polluted the HOG gene pool so
much that it no longer resembles the organization it was in the '80's.
* The local chapters have become useless, and chapter runs are lightweight
dinner rides or whatever. Get those groups on a twisty road and you are
asking for trouble, despite many good riders in the pack.
* I get towing free from Midwest Mutual Insurance Co. just like John does -
and their rate for insurance is much lower than HD's.
* I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big yellow
letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
* My favorite dealer gives me 10% off because he wants my business.
* Enthusiast and Hog Tales make me sick. Just another example of an
auto-incestuous Harley company butt-fucking itself.
Bottom Line: I let all my local HOG affiliations lapse - and I am a charter
member of a chapter. If I could get HOG to give me $20 for my $150 life
membership I would give it back to them. Maybe in the far-off future, HOG
will be worth something again, but I am not holding my breath.
P/S --> I know the sad state of our local HOGS is not mirrored everywhere in
the country. Jon Boulle was a member of Chicago area chapters, and I met a
lot of those people at OFIBC. I great bunch with a lot of useful,
high-mileage bikes. They treated me right. One Jon Boulle is worth more than
a legion of lightweights with HOG patches, and sound local management can keep
the overwhelming pastel tide of new riders from turning a good ship South.
conehead / Asshole #10
matthew casserino
: ...does you wife know you talk like that!!! How's it go Matt?
: ----------------------------------------- XLH-1200 -- 393221 -- 0748536 -
: / ____
: / / _ _ /) (_/_ _ _ /) _ _ PH(208)396-3146 FAX(208)396-5136
: _/ \ _(_|_/(_//_ __/ _(/_/)_(/_//_(/_/(_ : ka...@hpbs2271.boi.hp.com
: \_______________________(/___________ Hewlett-Packard Co. Boise,Id.USA
: -!!Don't you be the only one to take me seriously!!-
Are you kidd'n Karl..... If she knew I called her a *princess*
she'd split my lip 8^) Do'n well....been hot here, so I get to
do lotsa ride'n 8^) And you? Any word on yer FXSTC yet?
Tried to reply to yer mail a while back but it bounced back.
Good to here from you.
Take care...
Later..
Matt..
Unknown
>|> Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
>|> a 8 dollar value, a patch maybe a 4 dollar value, and
>|> a pin maybe a 2 dollar value and a road atlas maybe
>|> a 8 dollar value.
Not a Harley owner myself, but I even have to question
the value of the Enthusiast. Considering that it seems
to serve the purpose of self-promotion for Harley-Davidson,
I would value it at $0. Many companies offer similar mags,
and I get them for free.
Pin and patch, okay, there's some value. Doesn't the
road atlas have HD dealers marked on it? Handy, yes,
but self-promotion again. Knock off some bucks.
So, the goodies potentially come up far short of the
cash outlay. But, in H.O.G.s defense, doesn't H.O.G
*do* anything with your money? Take ABATE, as and
example. I think I get a newsletter and that's about
it. But my money also goes for them keeping an eye
on the congress-critters, education, etc. Does
H.O.G. do something similar?
From an outsider's point of view, if H.O.G. membership
amounts to a 10% discount and some quarterly promotional
literature (oh, yeah, and that feeling of belonging),
I might find better uses for my $40.
Mike Stewart '84 Honda Sabre
mas...@ibm.net DOD #1734
john stafford
Cronenweth) wrote:
> [snip]
> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big yellow
> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
BWAAAAA HAAAAA HAAAAA! Would the Pagans hassle a guy wearing _that_ one?
I'm inspired. I'll try to whip up the colors design asap and put it
on the server.
john stafford
Cronenweth) wrote:
>
> [snip]
> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big yellow
> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
DONE! See:
http://stafford.winona.msus.edu/CYD.GIF
(or under "What's New" from http://stafford.winona.msus.edu
mark peterson
>Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
>my membership.
snip
>So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
>Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
snip
>I got till the end of the month to say "YEA" or "NAY".
>Any EX-HOG Members wanna get in on this one?
>Wonder if Harley-Davidson, is reading this newsgroup and gonna
>"sue" us all for telling what we know about HD, and using their
>Trademark name in the header?
snip.
>Later...
> ASSHOLE#3 john...
I *really* don't think the $40 a year is worth it. I think it's a
rip-off! The really bad thing about it is that local chapters require
national membership. The local level is where you get your return on your
membership dues, *NOT* the national level.
Personally, I'd just buffalo the local chapter and tell them your
national HOG #. If they don't require the national card (to see for sure)
then who cares?
Another option would be to suck it up and get the life membership. At
least you'd be around long enough to get your money back on that one.
In closing, I shall quote pooder in saying,
MarkP...the cheap bastard...
Karl Fengler
...does you wife know you talk like that!!! How's it go Matt?
Bamm Bamm Rubble
BAMM BAMM BAMM BAMM BAMM
___ ______ _____ _____
_ (___) (_____ \(_____) (_____)
___ ____ ____ _| |_ _ ____) ) __ _ _ __ _
/___) _ \ / ___|_ _) | | / ____/ |/ /| | |/ /| |
|___ | |_| | | | |_ _| |_| (____| /_| | /_| |
(___/| __/|_| \__|_____)_______)_____/ \_____/
|_|
"If God had wanted women to bowl he would have
put breasts on their back so we have something
to look at while we wait our turn"
-Al Bundy
Robert Pearson
John Makel <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>Excerpts from netnews.rec.motorcycles.harley: 4-Aug-95 Re: "HOG"
>goa...@onramp.net (2415)
>
>> You've got to make your own decision based on your situation
>
>
>
>Thats the point, if you can use that 10% then its may be worth it,
>but thats only good here at the shop where you are a HOG member.
Is this now an official HOG benefit? When I was a member my dealer didn't
give one cent off for HOG membership (or anything else for that matter).
============================================================================
Bob Pearson 1987 HD FXRT + Watsonian Cambridge
redb...@iglou.com 1973 Triumph Trident T150V
AMA 1969 Triumph Trophy T100C
DoD #1626 1969 Moto Guzzi V700
MGNOC
============----"British by Birth - American by Choice"----================
Robert Pearson
Got my membership free with the new bike back in '87; renewed for a few
years to use the HOG Insurance scheme (which changed underwriters on a
yearly basis), and saved well over the membership cost compared to any
other insurers I could find. Then my membership lapsed and I foud out
that my current insurers don't give a damn whether I'm in HOG or not.
I found not only was the group poor value for money, the few regional and
national events I attended were even worse...
Seemed kid of crazy paying the factory for something that only THEY
seemed to be gaining by..
Just my $.02 worth.
============================================================================
Bob Pearson 1987 HD FXRT + Watsonian Cambridge
redb...@iglou.com 1973 Triumph Trident T150V
AMA 1969 Triumph Trophy T100C
DoD #1626 1969 Moto Guzzi V700
MGNOC
=============----"British by Birth - American by Choice"----================
Matt Pittelkow
>Thats the point, if you can use that 10% then its may be worth it,
>but thats only good here at the shop where you are a HOG member.
>$40.00 is money down the drains...
a story about my HOG experience....
I gotta start out by saying that I did not read the fine print (or much of the
other for that matter) concerning my HOG membership that came with my new bike.
I assumed that because I was a HOG member that was it. WRONG!!!
I went to the harley shop to get some parts for the bike (adding the M6 chain
adjuster). Lots of people all around just hanging out kind of. I ask for my parts
and the guy behind the counter goes and gets them. When he comes back he asks if
I'm a member of HOG and says that I get a 20% discount if I am. I say that I am
thinking that I really am because they sent me all them patches and pins and shit
that the kids really love by the way. All of the sudden the owner the owner of
the shop speaks up and says oh no he's not he doesn't belong to our chapter!
I pull out my HOG card that I thought was used to get discounts and stuff. They
say why sure it is if you give us another 10 bucks to join they local chapter.
I looked around the place and see people buying stuff like it's going out of style
and ask where all the people came from. Oh why this is just one of our HOG get
togethers. I think to my self oh joy I can join my very own chapter of the harley
shopping club!
I say no thanks to the membership and you can keep the parts too.
I don't think that I will be welcome back into the place but then again I don't
really want to go anyway.
Matt ASSHOLE#16
David DeCoster
|> In article <Qk8FZA600...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
|> John Makel <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
WhackO
|>
|> The main (only) reason I'm in HOG is to get the 10% discount on parts and
|> accessories. This year I've dropped a whole lot of $ on parts, etc., to get
|> my new sled into a form that is more fun to ride. I've checked around the
|> local parts shops and compared prices and, although your situation may be
|> different, what I've discovered where I live is that, with the 10% discount,
|> for the most part I can get the best prices at my local HD shop. Sounds
|> wierd, maybe, but it's true.
|>
|> Yah, the $40 has paid for itself several times over just on that basis. Now,
|> maybe I won't be spending so much each year, now that I've got Xerxes fixed up
|> pretty much the way I want him, but you never know. I don't think you're ever
|> _completely_ satisfied with the way you've got your sled fixed up, or maybe
|> there's something new you wanna try out. Who knows? So, I intend to keep the
|> membership up for the forseeable future, just for the discount.
|>
|>
|> Lata
The local shop here gives the HOG guys the 10% only just before(like a 1/2hr)
before the meeting. OK if you can wait. Another shop gives 10% to HOG, ABATE,
and MMRA anytime. But here is the real kicker. They both have open house so you
can get stuff up to 25% during the open house. Now if you take a little time to shoot
the shit with a couple of independent shops owners and get to know the guys, ie be
more than a walkin to them. I have found that for big ticket items I can get stuff for
5-10% over their cost. I have found Edelbrauch(sp) heads for less than $800. I have
been qu0ted a price for S&S heads at $20 over cost. Another shop I do business with always
gives me 15% off the total bill everytime I spend $25. So folks get out there and network
a little. Don't just buy your shit and walk. Take a little time to get to know these guys.
An hour spent smoozing with the guy behind the counter will pay big dividends down the
road. Shit even NAPA gives me dealer discounts because , one: I go to the same store
all the time, two they know I do most of my own work(cars and bikes), and three I'll shoot the
shit with them when I am there and business is slow.
BTW I have not been to a independent bike shop that did not sell Genuwhine HD parts. Most
of these independents have an agreement with an out of town HD shop to buy large quantities
of parts. The local shop I dealt with in NY got his stuff from Savage, MN. The local guy here
gets his from some HD shop out of state.
--
Davey D ASSHOLE#7
For those who understand, NO explanation
is needed, for those who DON'T understand
NO explanation will be given.
David DeCoster
|> John Makel <jm...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
|>
WhackO
|> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big yellow
|> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
|> * My favorite dealer gives me 10% off because he wants my business.
|> * Enthusiast and Hog Tales make me sick. Just another example of an
|> auto-incestuous Harley company butt-fucking itself.
I look at people that where HOG patches as 1%er wannabes that don't
have the shit in their neck to prospect for the real thing.
|>
|> Bottom Line: I let all my local HOG affiliations lapse - and I am a charter
|> member of a chapter. If I could get HOG to give me $20 for my $150 life
|> membership I would give it back to them. Maybe in the far-off future, HOG
|> will be worth something again, but I am not holding my breath.
That was the posotion I took when HOG first started. It took me until a few
years ago to decide that I really didn't want to join.
WhackO
Richard Emrich
In article <Qk8FZA600...@andrew.cmu.edu> John Makel wrote:
>Just figuring out what I get for this $40.00 renewal for
>a 8 dollar value, a patch maybe a 4 dollar value, and
>a pin maybe a 2 dollar value and a road atlas maybe
>a 8 dollar value.
>So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
Out here in Californicate, most (not all) dealers and some independant shops give discounts to HOG
members. Discounts range between 10-15% and can save you the cost of HOG membership in just
1 visit to the shop. I figure I have saved triple the cost of the membership and I can continue to save
on things such as Fly 'n Ride. Just my .02
.
Dick - Peoples RepubliK of Chino
jgu...@wyoming.com
> and ask where all the people came from. Oh why this is just one of our HOG get
> togethers. I think to my self oh joy I can join my very own chapter of the harley
> shopping club!
> I say no thanks to the membership and you can keep the parts too.
>
> I don't think that I will be welcome back into the place but then again I don't
> really want to go anyway.
The "HOG" organization was never intended as some way for you to save a few bucks on parts.
The 'discount' offered by a sponsoring dealer is strictly voluntary. Some dealers give it, some don't. If you
want to save money on parts, shop around instead of looking for a club discount. I'm guessing for example
that you probably paid at least $75 for that M6 unit. Pick up any copy of any Harley-oriented magazine and
you could have saved at least $15.
Give the HOG organization an honest try... don't base your decision on a 5-minute situation in a dealer
showroom. Our chapter here in Cheyenne has almost 100 members and we don't spend our time at
coffee n' donuts... we get out and ride. There's a lot of good people in the local clubs... get to know them,
you'll be glad you did!
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Jim Guelde jgu...@wyoming.com
Thunder Road Cycle Gear
American Leather for the American Road
http//www.coffey.com//thunder.html
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
George Grevera
: Give the HOG organization an honest try... don't base your decision on a
: 5-minute situation in a dealer showroom. Our chapter here in Cheyenne has
: almost 100 members and we don't spend our time at coffee n' donuts... we
: get out and ride. There's a lot of good people in the local clubs... get
: to know them, you'll be glad you did!
Jim,
This thread started about questioning the value of HOG _national_. (At least
that's the way I read it.) I agree that the local chapters can be great but
in my case, for example, you have to pay HD corporate $40 before you can join
the local chapter for only $15.
Why do I have to send HD coporate $40? Are they on welfare or something?
Do they need more money to invest in offshore chrome and motorclothes?
Jerry Kumpf
>In article <conehead+.4...@pitt.edu>, cone...@pitt.edu (Mark
>>
>> [snip]
>> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big yellow
>> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
>
> http://stafford.winona.msus.edu/CYD.GIF
>(or under "What's New" from http://stafford.winona.msus.edu
Quick call up Jim Combs and get the Tshirt Presses a rollin!
Can't wait for my new CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT Tshirt Hehehehe
Dipped In Shit
Jerry Kumpf - Sacramento CA. Email me at jwkb...@quiknet.com
Homepage at http://www.quiknet.com./~jwkbiker
78 FXS Lowrider - original owner
Gas, Grass or Ass - Nobody Rides For Free!
Mike Gratis
Makel wrote:
>So what does being a HOG member entitle you out there to?
>Think its worth your $40.00/year or a life membership to?
>I think the $40.00 would be better spent on new parts, a script
>to Iron Horse, American Iron, Hot Rod Harleys, Hot Bike
>or some other rag that has all Harleys in em rather than the
>YUP stuff in the Enthusiast.
>Whatcha think? Buy or Fly? Enquiring minds wanna know
>what this group thinks-you think its worth that $40.00 bucks
>or is an elitist throw of the coin down the pot to be recognized?
>I got till the end of the month to say "YEA" or "NAY".
Well, I think it all depends on how much you're into being a part of the
Harley Owners Group. If you want to be a member of the local Chapter, you
have to belong to HOG National (...or is it International? <g>). Belonging
to HOG National /does/ entitle you to various printed materials, patches,
pins, and additional items & privileges if you go to HOG events. And my local
Chapter (Cape Cod, MA), which charges me $10/yr., has a good group of people
in it, puts out an excellent newsletter, and has quite a few functions thrown
during the year, including a couple that are FREE for members. Do I /have/ to
belong to HOG to enjoy my Harley? No, but it sure makes it a lot more
interesting and fun....
//\\
__________________________ \\
|Iron Man \\ .__=.\\
|iro...@four.net \____ ,' -(@)\-\<)
|1958 Panhead/1945 Hardtail \ \______.,(_______/_:\
|(That's a Harley....) |==.\______// # /# #\ || : \____
|Member: AMA, BK, HOG '\\\ =''=//|_|##(O)##|| `./\---.
|_______________________ /\ / ,`--'./# ======='//, //.\ . \
_______ \ \_(_:_@O__)_///<_>O//// ( (@O ) )
_____ \_____________/======'O' \ `-' /
__`-----'__________________`---'___
Parking is such street sorrow.
John Makel
Excerpts from netnews.rec.motorcycles.harley: 7-Aug-95 Re: "HOG" Mike
Gra...@psycho.FOUR. (2062)
> Well, I think it all depends on how much you're into being a part of the
> Harley Owners Group. If you want to be a member of the local Chapter, you
> have to belong to HOG National (...or is it International? <g>). Belonging
> to HOG National /does/ entitle you to various printed materials, patches,
> pins, and additional items & privileges if you go to HOG events.
Now you have to realize, Mike that I was in HOG when it 1st formed some
years ago, and dropped my Membership. I got
a new membership when I bought my newer EVOS'. Now
I wonder what I get for my money. I was in 2 local chapters
over the years, the one which I am in now has more people
trying to be something that they are not. Ever hear my tale
of the Mortician whose wife rides in mink lined leathers?
But all in all, I can go to the local HD shop and buy things on sale
when they have their parties throughout the year, and eat and drink for
free! The local chapter here, has dues which are now $12.00/year.
Most of my bitch with the local HOG Chapters is that they are
not family oriented, and when I bring our little one, I have heard
comments like" What is this a DayCare Center", or "Jeesh
KIDS". Now you know I take great offense at that, and would love
to take these "Pukes" outside to edumacate them in the school of
finer Arts, but alals my better half keeps me in line. All the
family functions here are designed for riding to on 2 wheels.
Hard to take wife, and daughter on a run, dontcha think?
You know Mike, seems the older I get, Ifind that those whom I
enjoy being around fade away, or are not into the HOG scene...
Maybe its just me. I don't find a reason anymore to belong to
a group of people trying to act as outlaws when they are still
wet behind the ears...And all that chrome they stick on their
rides HA!!! Looks like tinsel towne...
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
Me and HOG, no more...
Wanna have a cup a coffee, don't matter none to me even if you
ride a HONDA...
John Makel
Bamm Rubble@interpo (648*)
> BAMM BAMM BAMM BAMM BAMM
I got something real close to me you can play BAMM, BAMM
with? Wanna see it?
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
Mike Gratis
Makel wrote:
>Now you have to realize, Mike that I was in HOG when it 1st formed some
>years ago, and dropped my Membership. I got
>a new membership when I bought my newer EVOS'. Now
I helped form and charter the Cape Cod Chapter of HOG back in 1988, and
all of the "founding members" were riding together for 1-2 years before we
formed HOG. Seems to me that back then HOG National dues were $15-20/yr. and
the Local dues were $5/yr.
>But all in all, I can go to the local HD shop and buy things on sale
>when they have their parties throughout the year, and eat and drink for
>free! The local chapter here, has dues which are now $12.00/year.
Same thing here -- We usually have three functions per year that are free
for members (...food, games, and a band - raffles & alcohol cost ya! <g>).
>Most of my bitch with the local HOG Chapters is that they are
>not family oriented, and when I bring our little one, I have heard
>comments like" What is this a DayCare Center", or "Jeesh
>KIDS". Now you know I take great offense at that, and would love
>to take these "Pukes" outside to edumacate them in the school of
>finer Arts, but alals my better half keeps me in line. All the
I know what you mean: Our Group started as very family oriented; most
members had one or two kids, and a couple of grandkids. Sure, there were
rides & functions that were aimed at the adults having some fun; but the
meetings and functions were always family oriented, and we went as far as to
have a "mini child care center" at meetings; where a couple of the gals would
watch about a dozen kids while the meetings were going on. Over the last
couple of years, I've seen what you described: Some members trying to be
something they're not, and having a real hard assed attitude. Well, over the
last 8 months there have been more and more kids showing up at meetings; which
always causes a few rumbling amongst certain members. When I brought the 10
year old son (Willi) of a deceased founding member (Oats Jackson, who was one
of my best friends), a couple of people came up to me and said, "You'd better
clear the kid with the Director". I told them all the same thing, "Anyone
who's got a problem with Willi can just kiss my ass, right in front of the
whole Group, if that's what turns you on. He's here and he's not going
anywhere. End of discussion." All of the founding members who were there
warmly welcomed Willi, and told me that there would be no problems with Willi
or any other kid being at a meeting. The Director later came up to us all
smiles and said how glad he was to see Willi at the meeting.... <VBG>
//\\
__________________________ \\
|Iron Man \\ .__=.\\
|iro...@four.net \____ ,' -(@)\-\<)
|1958 Panhead/1945 Hardtail \ \______.,(_______/_:\
|(That's a Harley....) |==.\______// # /# #\ || : \____
|Member: AMA, BK, HOG '\\\ =''=//|_|##(O)##|| `./\---.
|_______________________ /\ / ,`--'./# ======='//, //.\ . \
_______ \ \_(_:_@O__)_///<_>O//// ( (@O ) )
_____ \_____________/======'O' \ `-' /
__`-----'__________________`---'___
I Have A Bike, And I Have The Picture To Prove It!
Ray Safarik
>
>Jerry Kumpf <jwkb...@quiknet.com> writes:
>|> staf...@ultra1.winona.msus.edu (john stafford) wrote:
>|> >In article <conehead+.4...@pitt.edu>, cone...@pitt.edu (Mark
>|> >Cronenweth) wrote:
>|> >>
>|> >> [snip]
>|> >> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big
yellow
>|> >> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
>|> >
>|> > DONE! See:
>|> > http://stafford.winona.msus.edu/CYD.GIF
>|> >(or under "What's New" from http://stafford.winona.msus.edu
>|>
>|> Quick call up Jim Combs and get the Tshirt Presses a rollin!
>|> Can't wait for my new CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT Tshirt Hehehehe
>
>
>------------------==/ Jim Combs / '91 XLH 1200 / jimc...@bnr.ca /==----
>
.... but Jim, ...... you're so GOOD at it...... !! where's your sense of
adventure ??
Stroker Ray
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
'55 Custom Hardtail + I don't try to explain why I ride a Harley +
'75 96cid FXE + For those who understand, no explanation is needed +
'91 FLHTC-Ultra + For those who don't, no explanation is possible +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LIVE TO RIDE..... RIDE TO LIVE.... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Jim Combs
saf...@fnalv.fnal.gov ( Ray Safarik) writes:
|> jimc...@bnr.ca (Jim Combs) wrote:
|> >
|> >Jerry Kumpf <jwkb...@quiknet.com> writes:
|> >|> staf...@ultra1.winona.msus.edu (john stafford) wrote:
|> >|> >In article <conehead+.4...@pitt.edu>, cone...@pitt.edu (Mark
|> >|> >Cronenweth) wrote:
|> >|> >>
|> >|> >> [snip]
|> >|> >> * I'd sooner wear a jacket that says "CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT" in big
|> yellow
|> >|> >> letters than slap those HOG patches on any of my rags.
|> >|> >
|> >|> > DONE! See:
|> >|> > http://stafford.winona.msus.edu/CYD.GIF
|> >|> >(or under "What's New" from http://stafford.winona.msus.edu
|> >|>
|> >|> Quick call up Jim Combs and get the Tshirt Presses a rollin!
|> >|> Can't wait for my new CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT Tshirt Hehehehe
|> >
|> >No, NO, NO! Not another 6 month long non-profit project! ARGHHH!
|> >
|> >------------------==/ Jim Combs / '91 XLH 1200 / jimc...@bnr.ca /==----
|> >
|>
|> .... but Jim, ...... you're so GOOD at it...... !! where's your sense of
|> adventure ??
Nice try, Stroker Ray. But, my bike is already pissed at me because I
promised him some performance mods this spring which I still haven't
gotten around to. He was jealous of the VB&G T's, but did realize the
time spent was for a "greater good".
But Yuppie T-shirts ? - He'd leave me. :'(
Jim Combs
Raymond Abbitt
Jim Combs <jimc...@bnr.ca> wrote everything preceded by one and only one >
I am writing everything preceded by 0 or less >
At this point I've totally lost track of who wrote the rest and in the
interest of preventing a cascade I've deleted some of it.
>saf...@fnalv.fnal.gov ( Ray Safarik) writes:
>|> >|> Quick call up Jim Combs and get the Tshirt Presses a rollin!
>|> >|> Can't wait for my new CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT Tshirt Hehehehe
>|> >
>No, NO, NO! Not another 6 month long non-profit project! ARGHHH!
>|>
>|> .... but Jim, ...... you're so GOOD at it...... !! where's your sense of
>|> adventure ??
>Nice try, Stroker Ray. But, my bike is already pissed at me because I
>promised him some performance mods this spring which I still haven't
>gotten around to. He was jealous of the VB&G T's, but did realize the
>time spent was for a "greater good".
>But Yuppie T-shirts ? - He'd leave me. :'(
NO NO NO NO. Everybody knows that if you want to sell Tshirts to CYDs
that they will have to sell for at least $18.95 and NONE of us are
going to tell them what we paid for the VB&G T's. (And I've been
offered a 3 figure price for one of mine). So here is the plan. Make
LOTS of CYD t's. Send them to all of the VB&G T buyers on consignment.
We'll then send you everything over $25.00 that we get for them. You
can make your bike happy with all of the performance mods it can stand.
I can go buy a decent shovel with my share (which niether my damn ex
or the IRS needs to know about). And with whats left over, we can all
get together and BUY the motor company. I think it is an idea whose
time has come.
Ray (either the other one or another one)
Matt Pittelkow
>I'm guessing for example
>that you probably paid at least $75 for that M6 unit. Pick up any copy of any Harley-oriented magazine and
>you could have saved at least $15.
I paid 64.95 for the M6. I got it from Wallys mail order.
I was not too clear in my original post about what I was going to get at the
Harley shop. All I needed was the gaskets for the primary cover. My post was more
of slam on the dealer than anthing else but I still do not like the idea of
joining a club to meet people to ride with. I got enough feculent scum hanging
around the house as it is. ;-)
If I join the club (HOG) that would result in another 50 bucks per year that
could be used to brew another 10 gallons of home brew. Since I really can't stand
the local dealerthe choice for me is not a hard one. Please pass me another
homebrew!
Matt ASSHOLE#16
Ron McBee
|> Can't wait for my new CLUELESS YUPPIE DIPSHIT Tshirt Hehehehe
No, NO, NO! Not another 6 month long non-profit project! ARGHHH!
I'll take ten! Various sizes. They'll make great X-mas gifts for my
favorite friends.
Ron McBee
GDI #1
poo...@vax2.winona.msus.edu
<rmc...@willamette.edu> speculates:
> I'll take ten! Various sizes. They'll make great X-mas gifts for my
> favorite friends.
Just like the Motor Company: the VB&G starts out as a really good thing,
then the "feculating" yuppie scum smell a profit and take over. Jeeze,
it didn't take near as long as it took for HD, neither.
I'm gonna go found a Ducati bar -- that's the next wave for the
yuppie poseurs, right John? -- and at least cash in on the yuppers . . . .
-pooder th' disgusted (and disgusting) bastard
john stafford
> Just like the Motor Company: the VB&G starts out as a really good thing,
> then the "feculating" yuppie scum smell a profit and take over. Jeeze,
> it didn't take near as long as it took for HD, neither.
>
> I'm gonna go found a Ducati bar -- that's the next wave for the
> yuppie poseurs, right John? -- and at least cash in on the yuppers . . . .
Fuck Ducati. Fuck Harley. I crash and trash 'em all without regard.
Anitra's TOAST. Ya hear? TOAST!
Manuel Fernandez
You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
This is a great country. Any damn fool can make a total ass of himself
any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
in the blank).
Wayne in Tampa
LIFE HOG Member
Life AMA Member
john stafford
Harley's bottom-feeding lawyers apparently missed a great opportunity;
a new book coming out next month "_GOH_" "_God On a Harley_." No shit.
I did a pre-publication review of it for Chaosium publishing. It was
so bad that, well, I'll post the *review as a couple GIF files, cause
it's a waste of words to describe the piece of shit they called a book.
*the review will be of particular interest to the Guns n Ammo freaks.
Dave Strang
XFG...@prodigy.com (Manuel Fernandez) writes:
> Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't join.
> You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
> This is a great country. Any damn fool can make a total ass of himself
> any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
> in the blank).
So......like what's yer point dewd....
Strang
'Tis better to remain silent and seem a fool
than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Ohio University doesn't agree with me...why should you?
Ohio University Communication Network Services
23 Scott Quad
Athens Ohio 45701
(614) 593-1606
Str...@oumail1.email.ohiou.edu
1990 XL-883.....R.I.P.
93 FLHS.... Primary Transportation
Steve Manes
: Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't join.
: This is a great country. Any damn fool can make a total ass of himself
: any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
: in the blank).
Anyone else wonder what the AOL and Prodigy folks are ranting about
sometimes?
---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-----------------
Steve Manes ma...@magpie.com
N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
John Makel
Excerpts from netnews.rec.motorcycles.harley: 13-Aug-95 Re: "HOG" Manuel
Fernandez@prodigy (359)
> Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't join.
> You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
I got a problem with anyone trying to be something they are
not...Dont' you?
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
I am new to riding Harleys so please forgive my ignorance.
I am only 19 and am learning to cut hair for a living...
Manuel Fernandez
>: Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't
>: You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
himself
>: any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are
(fill
>: in the blank).
>
>Anyone else wonder what the AOL and Prodigy folks are ranting about
>sometimes?
>
mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
everyone thinks the way he/she does. You had a problem with HOG or a
local dealer? Well shit boy, life is a bitch. Grow the fuck up. Don't
expect the whole damn world to join your piss and moan party. I'll
listen to your problem right up to the point you start wanting me to
change my life to accomodate your poor little booboo. I have had nothing
but positive experiences with HOG since the day they were started. Shame
the same is not true for all but then that's life.
As an aside, now we are going to divide along server lines? My my, how
elitist.
Wayne in Tampa
student
face and the cops far behind.
Steve Manes
: >Manuel Fernandez (XFG...@prodigy.com) wrote:
: >: Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't
: join.
: >: You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
:
: >: This is a great country.
: >Anyone else wonder what the AOL and Prodigy folks are ranting about
: >sometimes?
: >
: I'll tell you what I'm raving about. I'm sick and fucking tired of some
: mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
: everyone thinks the way he/she does. You had a problem with HOG or a
: local dealer? Well shit boy, life is a bitch. Grow the fuck up.
There are several hundred people posting to this newsgroup monthly, dipshit.
If you stumble in here, yelling at the wall, not only does nobody know what
the fuck you're torqued about, nobody knows who you're responding to either.
I didn't post anything to the HOG thread until my comment wondering what the
fuck YOU were belching about but I'll be glad to flame your ass for the
practice, if that's what you want.
: As an aside, now we are going to divide along server lines? My my, how
: elitist.
It's divided between those who know how to do basic shit like identifying
who wrote what and posting a simple message, and the legions of newbie
dickheads that AOL and Prodigy dump on us every friggin week, the majority
of which have demonstrated themselves to be terminally clueless.
---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-----------------
Steve Manes ASSHOLE #20 ma...@magpie.com
Wtwolf
(Manuel Fernandez) writes:
>OOOOOH, now my feelings are hurt by the big bad newsgroup expert. And,
>if you want to flame, aim in another direction fuckface. I no longer
>have the inclination to deal with anyone who proudly identifies himself
>as ASSHOLE#20 even though the tag fits ever so well.
>
>
Manual,
Perhaps *you* should aim in another direction. The inclination persists
as not so obviously stated in your post. Mr Asshole Manes is well adept
in defending himself. This thread reeked of overtones that were ever so
unclear with your drivel. Please, renew your HOG membership and respect
the opinions of others no so inclined with the anticipation of the next
issue of HOG Tales...
Scott
'91 FXSTC
john stafford
> I'll tell you what I'm raving about. I'm sick and fucking tired of some
> mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
> everyone thinks the way he/she does.
...and here you are trying to pursuade a group of people you don't
even know that HOG is something worthwhile. Get a life, Man(uel)
You may be having fun with your toy colors and your toy friends, but
don't expect us to appreciate it. Sheesh. HOG. You don't get it, to you?
HOG was established by The Motor Company to capitialize on your small-
minded wannabe mentalty in order to boost dealership profits. Many
dealers dropped out when they realized it wasn't paying off. All I see
in you is a duped customer. So, go back to your Company catalog and
stay off this group if you can't stand the truth.
Manuel Fernandez
identifying
>who wrote what and posting a simple message, and the legions of newbie
>dickheads that AOL and Prodigy dump on us every friggin week, the
majority
>of which have demonstrated themselves to be terminally clueless.
>
>---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-------------
----
com
> N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
OOOOOH, now my feelings are hurt by the big bad newsgroup expert. And,
Terry
;>
;>>It's divided between those who know how to do basic shit like
;
Now Steve take it easy you might hurt his feelings and he will go back to Prodidy and not come
back here to the real world of online :-) You have to be carful with these newbie's you know.
And to you Manuel grow up and take it like a man. You came to this message group, we didn't make you
so put up or shut up. And yes I can be a BITCH AND SHITHEAD AT THE SAME TIME.
--
Bitch#13 / ShitHead#1
*Terry*
and
*Harley*
WOOF!
*Plus Blackie 1985 FLHTC*
**ter...@jax.jaxnet.com**
David L. Bergart
o I'll listen to your problem right up to the point you start wanting me to
o change my life to accomodate your poor little booboo.
Believe me boy, nobody here wants you to change a single blessed detail of
your life. Why would we? Are you somebody important? We would, however,
like you to *read* before you respond -- it makes things so much more
meaningful when you do.
o As an aside, now we are going to divide along server lines?
o My my, how elitist.
Prodigy is *the* *biggest* source of spam and inbred clue-deficiency on
Usenet.
Now, not everybody on Prodigy has a pig under one arm and a chicken under
the other, but enough do that having Prodigy as your ISV is guaranteed to
colour people's initial opinion of you. You could overcome this handicap
with logic and intelligence. Try it sometime.
Oh...welcome to r.m.h.
David
--
____D__a__v__i__d_____B__e__r__g__a__r__t___________________________________
bod...@ccvax.sinica.edu.tw
Ken Wilson
>snip<
>It's divided between those who know how to do basic shit like >identifying
>who wrote what and posting a simple message, and the legions of newbie
>dickheads that AOL and Prodigy dump on us every friggin week, the >majority
>of which have demonstrated themselves to be terminally clueless.
If you followed the thread from the beginning it started as a slam on
H.O.G. Logically enough, some H.O.G. members are getting tired of the
B.S. People formed this newsgroup to dodge the flames and barbs of the
rec.moto.weenie crowd who were lumping all the H-D owners in one basket
and, quite rightly, they resented it.
I think, however, someone missed the boat. Like the pilgrims they have
left the mother country's oppression so they can be free to practice
their own form of oppression. Now this bunch is slamming people enmass,
i.e. H.O.G. as a group, A.O.L. as a group, and not taking each message or
messager as an individual.
I guess what he's saying is there are poseurs in this group that may not
be what they appear to be and may not be H.O.G. members either. They're
talking the talk but can't do the walk. Probably all the real bikers
aren't posting a thing and just getting a good chuckle out of all the
bullshit coming down the pipe.
> Steve Manes ASSHOLE #20 ma...@magpie.com
> N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
With just a little more effort I think you could make #1. Talk about
affectations.
Ken Wilson
Live from 'The Flowered Alcatraz'
'93 XLH1200 (20,000mi) D.o.D. #34.5
Steve Manes
: OOOOOH, now my feelings are hurt by the big bad newsgroup expert. And,
: have the inclination to deal with anyone who proudly identifies himself
: as ASSHOLE#20 even though the tag fits ever so well.
Gracias. I didn't get it by whipping out my Harley credit card to pay the
thirty buck dues to join some factory-sponsored lonely hearts club. I sure
as shittin' earned my number.
I've got nothing against HOG, if that's what pumps your chubbie.
Personally, I don't care for HOG-style pack rides with everyone walking on
each others' heels. That's the antithesis of motorcycle freedom as far as
I'm concerned. I'm a squid who likes to grind the floorboards when the
opportunity presents itself, which is why I pick the people I ride with. I
don't want to have to watch my back or wait at every turn-off for
backmarkers to catch up. I also don't give a shit if they ride a dresser or
a Katana. That they ride is important; that they ride well even moreso.
---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-----------------
John Makel
Excerpts from netnews.rec.motorcycles.harley: 14-Aug-95 Re: "HOG" Manuel
Fernandez@prodigy (1192)
> I'll tell you what I'm raving about. I'm sick and fucking tired of some
> mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
> everyone thinks the way he/she does. You had a problem with HOG or a
> local dealer? Well shit boy, life is a bitch. Grow the fuck up. Don't
> expect the whole damn world to join your piss and moan party. I'll
> listen to your problem right up to the point you start wanting me to
> change my life to accomodate your poor little booboo. I have had nothing
> but positive experiences with HOG since the day they were started. Shame
> the same is not true for all but then that's life.
> As an aside, now we are going to divide along server lines? My my, how
> elitist.
> Wayne in Tampa
I don't know how this is to be taken, but here goes.
1st Wayne-I am far from new to riding, and if you really wanna
know I have been riding longer than the average age of the readers
on this newsgroup. I also do not ride 2hours, that to me is not worth
the time to take it outta my basement for such a short spin.
If you buy into what HOG says thats your business OK?
So from your post you been with HOG since 1984?
What do you get for your $40.00/year?
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
John Makel
Fernandez@prodigy (792)
> I no longer
> have the inclination to deal with anyone who proudly identifies himself
> as ASSHOLE#20 even though the tag fits ever so well.
Fits real well Wayne-wanna compare notes?-8)...
Steve Manes you are an ASSHOLE-8)...
Later...
ASSHOLE#3 john...
Dave Strang
Ken Wilson <ken.w...@cyberstore.ca> writes:
>
> If you followed the thread from the beginning it started as a slam on
> H.O.G.
If you followed the thread from the beginning...it started as a request
to the group at large - from someone comntemplating whether or not to
spend $40.00 to renew a HOG membership for another year - for a
consensus on whether or not it was actually worth that $40.00. It kind
of degenerated into a HOG-slam but possibly because there are many out
there who have had negative experiences with HOG.
I'm sure there are many local HOG groups in the country that are great
groups of people, but there are just as many that are "poser social
clubs". The problem is, that to join the local clubs, you have to
belong to the National and is that $40.00 you must spend to do so
really worth it. There are many who do not think it is. I don't think
I'm going to renew next year...I *almost* didn't this year - I wanted
to check out the local chapter in the town I now live in, the dues were
cheap ($5 for me & the wife both) and I also thought I might go to the
Ohio State rally. I didn't make the rally and so far I am kind of
disappointed in the local chapter, they're nice people but....Their
rides seem to be more focused on the "destination" as opposed to the
"journey" and are always centered around food (live to ride, ride to
eat), they don't ride when it's cold, they don't ride in the rain and
from Feb. to June only two others besides me rode their bike (one time
each) to a meeting - I asked one guy why he didn't ride one particular
evening...his bike was too new & he didn't want to get it dirty (it was
raining slightly that night).
> Now this bunch is slamming people enmass,
> i.e. H.O.G. as a group, A.O.L. as a group, and not taking each message or
> messager as an individual.
That's a pretty braod and inaccurate generalization...what most people
have been saying about HOG is that current trend seems to be that the
Chapters are turning into "poser social clubs" - it's not been a
deliberate slam against all HOG members etc. As for AOL.... there are
quite a few regulars in here who are on AOL accounts and have their
shit together but they sure seem to be in a minority when it comes to
the whole group of AOL'ers.....Pious Assholus #20 summed it up pretty
well in his post.
> Probably all the real bikers aren't posting a thing and just getting a >good chuckle out of all the bullshit coming down the pipe.
Where does that leave you? WTF is "real biker"??? As for me....I'm a
RIDER, more specifically, a HARLEY RIDER. It's not how many miles I
ride in a day/week/month/year/lifetime, how many hours at a time per
ride when I go out, or even what I ride......only that I love to
ride....period. It's the rush I get from blasting through a set of
"roller caoster" twisties, it's sunrises & sunsets, it's the cool
breeze and the smell of a pine grove, it's the scent of honeysuckle
gone berserk in the spring, it's the smell of leaves burning in the
fall, it's gettin' caught in a rainsquall from hell, it's the bizarre
looks from cagers in the dead of winter when the "idiot on the
motorcycle" goes blowin' by, and it's the sound of a finely tuned
V-twin motor separating me from the cold ravages of a reality-torn
workday - most everthing else is BULLSHIT.
Strang, climbing down from his soapbox and apologizing for ranting
Everyone needs something to believe in....
I believe I'll go for another ride...
CudaTah
Strang) writes:
>In article <40q8da$5...@sulla.cyberstore.ca>
>Ken Wilson <ken.w...@cyberstore.ca> writes:
>
>>
>> If you followed the thread from the beginning it started as a slam on
>> H.O.G.
>
>If you followed the thread from the beginning...it started as a request
>to the group at large - from someone comntemplating whether or not to
>spend $40.00 to renew a HOG membership for another year - for a
>consensus on whether or not it was actually worth that $40.00. It kind
>of degenerated into a HOG-slam but possibly because there are many out
>there who have had negative experiences with HOG.
I, too, have been questioning the value of HOG membership. I can't stand
to go the local meetings. I just get frustrated and angry w/the rampant
stupidity and whining. The local chapter would rather have bowling parties
and Halloween costume parties that they try to force members into
attending & then bitch when no one shows up. When they do go on rides
(very infrequently) I won't ride with most of them because they're
dangerous. It's just not enjoyable when you gotta worry about the
possibility of the person in front of you braking/stopping in the middle
of a curve or not seeing the person who *was* riding behind you because
they've surged up & are riding beside you.
>Where does that leave you? WTF is "real biker"??? As for me....I'm a
>RIDER, more specifically, a HARLEY RIDER. It's not how many miles I
>ride in a day/week/month/year/lifetime, how many hours at a time per
>ride when I go out, or even what I ride......only that I love to
>ride....period. It's the rush I get from blasting through a set of
>"roller caoster" twisties, it's sunrises & sunsets, it's the cool
>breeze and the smell of a pine grove, it's the scent of honeysuckle
>gone berserk in the spring, it's the smell of leaves burning in the
>fall, it's gettin' caught in a rainsquall from hell, it's the bizarre
>looks from cagers in the dead of winter when the "idiot on the
>motorcycle" goes blowin' by, and it's the sound of a finely tuned
>V-twin motor separating me from the cold ravages of a reality-torn
>workday - most everthing else is BULLSHIT.
Well said, Strang, well said.
Cuda
Steve Manes
: If you followed the thread from the beginning it started as a slam on
: H.O.G.
And if you had followed this thread from the beginning, dipshit, you would
know that I wasn't a participant in it until Manny started spitting bile in
every direction.
: I think, however, someone missed the boat. Like the pilgrims they have
: left the mother country's oppression so they can be free to practice
: their own form of oppression. Now this bunch is slamming people enmass,
: i.e. H.O.G. as a group, A.O.L. as a group, and not taking each message or
: messager as an individual.
Bullshit. It isn't just "this bunch", unless you mean the Usenet community
at large. We have some very cool regulars here despite their AOL addresses,
like Beth Zimmer, Scott Vail and Barb Freeman. Unfortunately, AOL and
Prodigy send us far more spammers, opportunistic speculators, whiney
puppydogs, wounded newbies and clueless dickheads than they do the rare Bob
Tonson or Kevin Lee. That's gonna happen when you mass-market internet
access like it was Zima.
: I guess what he's saying is there are poseurs in this group that may not
: be what they appear to be and may not be H.O.G. members either.
What's your point, Kenny? That unless you're a member of HOG you're a
poseur? I've got news for you, dood: anyone who bought a new Harley since
1983 was once a member of HOG, and I presume that includes some of those in
that thread who don't like HOG today, in part possibly because membership
makes them HOG "brothers" to every candyass Rolex Rider walking out of the
dealership with his latest personality makeover. I don't necessarily see it
that way but I know that some do.
Me, I just see no practical value in HOG membership. I like the annual HOG
reference book but the org doesn't offer much else for me because I've
always had a pool of people to putt with... experienced riders... no newbies
riding way over their heads on brand-new softails, waiting to give me a
handlebar enema at the next traffic light. Shit, I know a Harley dealer
who's scared to ride with his own HOG group because they crash 'n' burn like
a circus act.
: They're talking the talk but can't do the walk. Probably all the real bikers
: aren't posting a thing and just getting a good chuckle out of all the
: bullshit coming down the pipe.
*chuckle*
: With just a little more effort I think you could make #1. Talk about
: affectations.
: Ken Wilson
: Live from 'The Flowered Alcatraz'
: '93 XLH1200 (20,000mi) D.o.D. #34.5
I wish, but #1 is taken. I noticed your Denizens of Doom personal identity
number. DaveyD might have a Krusty Asswipe number you could share! Just
keep it up. Speaking of affectations, are you really impressed that you've
got 20,000 on a three year-old bike?
---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-----------------
Steve Manes ASSHOLE #20 ma...@magpie.com
N'Yawk, N'Yawk Accept no substitutes =o&>o
poo...@vax2.winona.msus.edu
ter...@jax.jaxnet.com (Terry) tells all:
> And yes I can be a BITCH AND SHITHEAD AT THE SAME TIME.
Jus' a' long as ya don' try t' be a *Wench*, too, Terry . . . !
-pooder th' Wench lovin' bastard
> WOOF!
"You think we oughta throw ol' Spike a bone? [...]
Bet he's got a motorbike,
What'a y'all think?" --Tom Petty, in _Spike_
Putt (Ray Zaney)
>: You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
>: any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
>: in the blank).
>
>sometimes?
>
> Steve Manes ma...@magpie.com
> N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
Naaa, just shows they don't know how to cut-n-paste. Probably a nother
newbie puter owner.
Putt..... Asshole #19....
Karlette Schoen
>In <DDD95...@boss.cs.ohiou.edu>, Str...@oumail1.email.ohiou.edu (Dave
>Strang) writes:
>
>>> If you followed the thread from the beginning it started as a slam on
>>> H.O.G.
>>
>>If you followed the thread from the beginning...it started as a request
>>to the group at large - from someone comntemplating whether or not to
>>spend $40.00 to renew a HOG membership for another year - for a
>I, too, have been questioning the value of HOG membership. I can't stand
>to go the local meetings. I just get frustrated and angry w/the rampant
>stupidity and whining. The local chapter would rather have bowling parties
>and Halloween costume parties that they try to force members into
Vicki, I too belonged to that chapter. I thought they were all run that
way. Not so. Now that I moved away I found a chapter who generally likes
to play and have a good time. Wish you were closer so you could join
this chapter. The chapter we both belonged to needed serious revamping.
>>Where does that leave you? WTF is "real biker"??? As for me....I'm a
>
>>ride....period. It's the rush I get from blasting through a set of
>>"roller caoster" twisties, it's sunrises & sunsets, it's the cool
>>breeze and the smell of a pine grove, it's the scent of honeysuckle
>>gone berserk in the spring, it's the smell of leaves burning in the
Oops you forgot the smell of the corn and the sound of it growing.... :)
Karlette
SteeevB
eloquently:
> It's the rush I get from blasting through a set of
>"roller caoster" twisties,--it's the sound of a finely tuned
>V-twin motor separating me from the cold ravages of a reality-torn
>workday
this is a keeper, and so friggin true , pretty amazing that
so many people feel the same way....really
makes ya feel in those naive moments that ya really belong to a
"brotherhood "at times,
even tho we all know better!! LOL
> Everyone needs something to believe in....
> I believe I'll go for another ride...
Amen
Ste...@AOL.com
FXRS-SP/ST1100
"Error of opinion may be tolerated -- where reason is left free to combat
it" /Thomas Jefferson from his Inaugural Address
David DeCoster
|> >Manuel Fernandez (XFG...@prodigy.com) wrote:
WhackO
|> >Anyone else wonder what the AOL and Prodigy folks are ranting about
|> >sometimes?
|> >
|> mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
|> everyone thinks the way he/she does. You had a problem with HOG or a
|> local dealer? Well shit boy, life is a bitch. Grow the fuck up. Don't
|> expect the whole damn world to join your piss and moan party. I'll
|> listen to your problem right up to the point you start wanting me to
|> change my life to accomodate your poor little booboo. I have had nothing
|> but positive experiences with HOG since the day they were started. Shame
|> the same is not true for all but then that's life.
|>
|> As an aside, now we are going to divide along server lines? My my, how
|> elitist.
|>
|> Wayne in Tampa
|>
Well, that's the way it works around here.
--
Davey D ASSHOLE#7
For those who understand, NO explanation
is needed, for those who DON'T understand
NO explanation will be given.
David DeCoster
|> Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't join.
|> You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
|> This is a great country. Any damn fool can make a total ass of himself
|> any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
|> in the blank).
|>
|> LIFE HOG Member
|> Life AMA Member
|>
Hey Manuel, looks like you just took your turn.
Jeff Dotterer
>Where does that leave you? WTF is "real biker"??? As for me....I'm a
>RIDER, more specifically, a HARLEY RIDER. It's not how many miles I
>ride in a day/week/month/year/lifetime, how many hours at a time per
>ride when I go out, or even what I ride......only that I love to
>ride....period. It's the rush I get from blasting through a set of
>"roller caoster" twisties, it's sunrises & sunsets, it's the cool
>breeze and the smell of a pine grove, it's the scent of honeysuckle
>gone berserk in the spring, it's the smell of leaves burning in the
>fall, it's gettin' caught in a rainsquall from hell, it's the bizarre
>looks from cagers in the dead of winter when the "idiot on the
>motorcycle" goes blowin' by, and it's the sound of a finely tuned
>V-twin motor separating me from the cold ravages of a reality-torn
>workday - most everthing else is BULLSHIT.
Well sed strang, kinda makes me misty ;^)
Jeff
"They that give up essential liberty to obtain
a little safety deserve neither liberty nor
safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
David DeCoster
|> In article <40ob9v$1l...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, XFG...@prodigy.com (Manuel Fernandez) wrote:
|>
|> > I'll tell you what I'm raving about. I'm sick and fucking tired of some
|> > mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
|> > everyone thinks the way he/she does.
|>
|> even know that HOG is something worthwhile. Get a life, Man(uel)
|> You may be having fun with your toy colors and your toy friends, but
|> don't expect us to appreciate it. Sheesh. HOG. You don't get it, to you?
|> HOG was established by The Motor Company to capitialize on your small-
|> minded wannabe mentalty in order to boost dealership profits. Many
|> dealers dropped out when they realized it wasn't paying off. All I see
|> in you is a duped customer. So, go back to your Company catalog and
|> stay off this group if you can't stand the truth.
Just to add a little to what John said:
A tiny history lesson for you non pre HOG people.
Back when men were men and women were men and dogs was scared and
Harley finally had a dealer network. The Motor Co actually leaned on the
dealers to sponser racers and events. This was to get the riders together
to do what riders do best, have fun. Then sometime around the golf cart
era HD kinda abandoned the dealers to their own devices. This was just
before(a few years) AMF. So HD became part of a bowling ball company.
AMF only wanted to wring as many bucks out of the Motor Co as possible
and to hell with everyone else, because what did we know, we was just a bunch
of scum sucking bottom feeders. So then Vaughan, Willie and company
bought the Co back from the bowling ball guys and actually started getting
back to there roots. They said hey, "lets do like in the olden days and promote
it like they used to do." HOG started out as a good thing. A few trinkets here and
there. It kinda added respect to the whole thing again. Then the Company went
public(Wall Street). Instead of the company being run by people who love the
company it started to be ran by the marketeers who answer to the almighty buck.
They looked around and said make as much shit as you can with the logo on it
and mark it up a bunch. So now they make motorhomes and trailers and designer
cloths, and oh yeah, motorcycles too. So you see HOG started out the same way and
morphed in to the BS we have now. The thing that bugs me is that every year their
toy runs and poker runs get shorter. Shit this years toy run is going to go a whole
15 or 20 miles. So you see there was always toys, and motocloths, and geegaws
for the bikes. Just not in the vast quantities and varieties that we have today.
So if you want tobe a HOG guy go right ahead, personally I was told that I was not
HOG material(something about my eating habits I think). I won't look down on you
if you got a HOG patch on until you start pulling biker bill BS on me or start bustin
on some guy that ain't ridin the same marque that you are. If I wanted to wear a patch
you can be dam sure that it won't be one that can be bought with a gold card.
Later feculator
122B70050-FranklinKL(DR8219)252
>In article <Stafford-140...@199.17.133.39>, Staf...@Ultra1.Winona.MSUS.edu (john stafford) writes:
>|> In article <40ob9v$1l...@usenetp1.news.prodigy.com>, XFG...@prodigy.com (Manuel Fernandez) wrote:
>|>
>|> > I'll tell you what I'm raving about. I'm sick and fucking tired of some
>|> > mouth breathing 2 hour "biker" laying out a bunch of shit because not
>|> > everyone thinks the way he/she does.
>|>
>|> ...and here you are trying to pursuade a group of people you don't
>|> even know that HOG is something worthwhile. Get a life, Man(uel)
>|> You may be having fun with your toy colors and your toy friends, but
>|> don't expect us to appreciate it. Sheesh. HOG. You don't get it, to you?
>|> HOG was established by The Motor Company to capitialize on your small-
>|> minded wannabe mentalty in order to boost dealership profits. Many
>|> dealers dropped out when they realized it wasn't paying off. All I see
>|> in you is a duped customer. So, go back to your Company catalog and
>|> stay off this group if you can't stand the truth.
>
>Just to add a little to what John said:
>
>A tiny history lesson for you non pre HOG people.
>
>Back when men were men and women were men and dogs was scared and
>Harley finally had a dealer network. The Motor Co actually leaned on the
>dealers to sponser racers and events. This was to get the riders together
>to do what riders do best, have fun. Then sometime around the golf cart
>era HD kinda abandoned the dealers to their own devices. This was just
>before(a few years) AMF. So HD became part of a bowling ball company.
>AMF only wanted to wring as many bucks out of the Motor Co as possible
>and to hell with everyone else, because what did we know, we was just a bunch
>of scum sucking bottom feeders. So then Vaughan, Willie and company
>bought the Co back from the bowling ball guys and actually started getting
>back to there roots. They said hey, "lets do like in the olden days and promote
Rest of history lesson deleted...
Not quite true. While it is true that quality declined (or appeared to)
during the AMF era, the fact is that if AMF (or some other large corporation
with deep pockets) had not purchased Harley, they would not have survived.
During the AMF era, production of HD motos increased *significantly* and
it was that increase that was largely responsible for the quality
problems.
I don't doubt that AMF intended to make money from it's purchase of
Harley, but the truth is that they bankrolled the Motor Company during
a time that competition from cheaper, more reliable motorcycles was
taking its toll and might well have precipitated Harley's demise.
Let's not forget also that, after Harley was bought back from AMF in the
early 80's, their resurgence was aided in no small part by a government
imposed tariff on imported bikes of 750 cc and over. It is open to
debate whether the resurgent Motor Company would have survived without
this help, but there is little question that the "new" Harley would
have had a significantly harder time without the tariff.
--
Ken Franklin * Good times 'n riches 'n son of a bitches
AT&T * I've seen more than I can recall
Jimmy Buffett
hm...@uslink.net
(like me) who've just gone from Jap bikes to HD, local HOG (silly as it
is) represents about the only source of info on this brand of bike. I've
been riding bikes for 13 years, but God forbid anybody on this group
answer a question from a newbie HD rider, especially (God forbid) if
they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
Big D.
>but God forbid anybody on this group
>answer a question from a newbie HD rider, especially (God forbid) if
>they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
I gotta call bullshit on this one. As a newbie to Harley
myself, I've found this group to be helpful. Every question
I've asked has been answered without any hint of
condescension. In fact I have been made to feel quite
welcome in this bar.
Maybe the problem is your own attitude. If you just walk up
to a group of people you don't know and who don't know you
and start shooting off your mouth what do you expect?
Maybe you should lighten up and get to know a couple of
people first.
Big D.
'95 FLSTN
and humble newbie :-)>
C. Sanjayan Rosenmund
<snip>
: been riding bikes for 13 years, but God forbid anybody on this group
: answer a question from a newbie HD rider, especially (God forbid) if
: they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
*Your* God seems to be very much into forbiding things, perhaps that is
why He seems to have forbidden you to get a clue. . . .
I am relativly new to this group, but I have seen several requests for
info from several diferent people. Every one that I have seen was
treated with respect (even if there was some kidding arround), and given
good advice. The problem with AOL and Prodigy is that a great many
people tend to use them in order to cause trouble on usenet. If they
loose their access *oh well* they'll just get annother account when AOL
sends them annother login disk! In the mean time the rest of us, who are
here to exchange ideas and sop up virtual beer, have to suffer with the
childish antics of these scum sucking sons of motherless goats! Some of
us get a little bit suspicious of folks from these domains after being
baited so constantly by them. As far as *I* am concerned, however, you
get treated just like you act. Act like an idiot, get treated like one.
Act civilised, get treated with respect. Which will it be?
Sanjay (live to Ride, living without Riding. . . isn't.)
--
Sanjay & Laurel
sa...@crl.com
Groob
>>>>God forbid anybody on this group answer a question from a newbie HD
rider, especially (God forbid) if they log on from AOL or Prodigy.<<<<
I am a newbie Harley rider posting from AOL and I got a lot of help from
the folks on this newsgroup when I was trying to figure out a problem with
my new Road King. I don't think the people here have much patience with
attitudes or dumb questions, but they do respond to honest reqests for
advice. And regarding HOG, I don't care much about the national HOG, but
the people I've met who are local HOG members seem like nice folks who
like bikes. True, some of them don't do a hundred miles in a week--so
I'll chat with them in the parking lot after breakfast and then ride with
the ones who like to go a little farther--but it's nice to see people who
are excited about their bikes. All this talk about "lifestyles" is a
little too much like teenaged angst. I pick my riding partners by two
criteria: (1.) would I want to eat with them?; and (2.) can they keep up?
And if they pass the first criterion, I don't mind waving the second one
on most days.
David DeCoster
Hey the shovel was on the drawing board when AMF took over. They just
put it into production(nose cone). Also AMF was no new player to manufacturing
processes. I mean they make pretty good bowling equipment. I think that if
they really wanted to do more than make a quick buck off of HD they could
have put the quality control in and still have ramped up production.
|>
|> I don't doubt that AMF intended to make money from it's purchase of
|> Harley, but the truth is that they bankrolled the Motor Company during
|> a time that competition from cheaper, more reliable motorcycles was
|> taking its toll and might well have precipitated Harley's demise.
I agree but they did not do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They
did to make money. They cookie cuttered the bikes and quality be dammed.
|>
|> Let's not forget also that, after Harley was bought back from AMF in the
|> early 80's, their resurgence was aided in no small part by a government
|> imposed tariff on imported bikes of 750 cc and over. It is open to
|> debate whether the resurgent Motor Company would have survived without
|> this help, but there is little question that the "new" Harley would
|> have had a significantly harder time without the tariff.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Guess, we'll never know if they would have made on there own or not. But it
is water over the dam so to speak and tired argument at that.
But, just like TV's, cars, VCR's, stereo, memory chips. They were dumping bikes
at below cost. And if the Japanese had succeeded in driving HD out of business
how cheap do you think the Japanses bikes would be today? And BTW HD asked
that the tariff be lifted a year earlier than planned.
|> --
|>
|> Ken Franklin * Good times 'n riches 'n son of a bitches
|> AT&T * I've seen more than I can recall
|> Jimmy Buffett
--
mas...@ibm.net
>>>>>God forbid anybody on this group answer a question from a newbie HD
>rider, especially (God forbid) if they log on from AOL or Prodigy.<<<<
Maybe it's your breath. I don't even *own* a Harley (note the .sig),
but when asking a Harley question for a friend my mailbox overflowed
with helpful responses.
Mike Stewart '84 Honda Sabre
mas...@ibm.net DOD #1734
David Boyce
><hm...@uslink.net> writes:
>
>>but God forbid anybody on this group
>>answer a question from a newbie HD rider, especially (God forbid) if
>>they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
>
>myself, I've found this group to be helpful. Every question
>I've asked has been answered without any hint of
>condescension. In fact I have been made to feel quite
>welcome in this bar.
>
>
>Big D.
>'95 FLSTN
> and humble newbie :-)>
>
of questions, many times showing my ignorance, and have always received
the information I was looking for with out any sort of put down. Well,
there was that episode with ACE but he's long gone. So, again, maybe
it's not what you are asking, but how your asking it.
--
David Boyce '95 FXSTS
da...@ct.covia.com
"With freedom comes responsibility!"
Dweeb(tm)
SteveT - The dumb pose(u)r
Cogito ergo spam - I think therefore I ham - Dweeb(tm) - s...@hopper.unh.edu
David B. Leazer
<snipage>
>baited so constantly by them. As far as *I* am concerned, however, you
>get treated just like you act. Act like an idiot, get treated like one.
>Act civilised, get treated with respect. Which will it be?
>
>Sanjay (live to Ride, living without Riding. . . isn't.)
>
Ohhhhhhhh, most excellent advise Sanjay! True for most things in life
and in dealing with most *new* people;
I'll ride with ya!
By the way, enjoyed your Intro too; and I like your outlook about
runnin the road. To me it don't matter what you ride, as long as I know
you're out there to help when I need it. Comforting to know that you
ain't just gonna ride on by, smile and wave!
Dave
ic...@imap1.asu.edu
: been riding bikes for 13 years, but God forbid anybody on this group
: they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
Why don't you walk on out, lose the attitude, then try it again.
--
Barry L. Van Hook (van...@asu.edu)
Management Department, Arizona State University
Tempe, Arizona 85287-4006
(602) 965-3431 FAX (602) 965-8314
Jeff Faist x2283
: Trash HOG if that's what tickles the elitist in you. But for people
: is) represents about the only source of info on this brand of bike. I've
: answer a question from a newbie HD rider, especially (God forbid) if
: they log on from AOL or Prodigy.
Sounds to me like you should get an AOL account and trade in your HD
for a UJM then login to rec.moto and leave us alone.
Troll
Bob Stephens
%Manuel Fernandez (XFG...@prodigy.com) wrote:
%: Hey, you got a problem with HOG or the local chapters - then don't join.
%: You want to deal out a load of shit to those that do belong - go ahead.
%: This is a great country. Any damn fool can make a total ass of himself
%: any old time he wants. Yes sir buddy, think like I do or you are (fill
%: in the blank).
%
%Anyone else wonder what the AOL and Prodigy folks are ranting about
%sometimes?
%
%---------------[ http://www.nylink.org/~manes/nycmoto.html ]-----------------
% Steve Manes ma...@magpie.com
% N'Yawk, N'Yawk =o&>o
Well, yes. I think I do know what he's ranting about.
Bob
'94 883