Shovelhead oil pressure to low?
Dan Olszewski
After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
does not come on. is this normal-/
Any help greatly appreciated
Panhead
>
> 1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
> After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
> does not come on. is this normal-/
My 1974 did the same thing ...sorta.
Me thinks it's quite normal, considering the accuracy of the
gauges and all.
Curly Larry and
wrote:
>1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
>After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
>does not come on. is this normal-/
If you're basing your evaluation on one of them worthless POS add on
oil pressure gauges, yes.
--
Curly LaJolla (CLeM) BS#107
93 FLHS Bark-O-Glide
http://www.loscowtones.com
Lose Larry & Moe to email
Hugh Jass
wrote:
>1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
Using a quality guage (I have a Stewart Warner) you should show 40+ on
cold start and 5+/- at idle when full hot. The bottom line if you
have wet lifters and they stay pumped up yer OK.
Man who scratches ass shouldn't bite fingernails.
The gene pool needs more chlorine.
Change .com to .net to reply direct.
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DAVE
Check the rocker bushing and rocker shaft fit. Its been my experience that if
there is a n excessive amount of clearance there the oil preasure will be
lower.
Bill75fxe
This has been my puzzle for a few years now. It just don't seem normal?
I started using Lucas Oil Stablizer two years ago and my oil pressure
stays at 5-10 lbs when hot 60+ when cold. Check the deja... what ever
that shit is and we covered this a few years back. Lots of good advice.
Bootom line is, If the oil is flowing in a shovel then you are OK as
long as you are using 50+ weight oil. The manual says use up to 110
weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
Bill75fxe
Joe Mama
wrote:
> The manual says use up to 110
> weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
Either you are referring to some off-the-wall manual or I must have missed
this part, cuz I have never even heard of 110 weight oil. The 90 and 140
weights are automobile transmission and rear end lube, and there is no
manual that I have ever heard of which even remotely suggests such a thing
for any HD motor..
-jm
1968 XLCH
To return mail no spam, change the reply address of:
"joe mama at rare bird dot com"
to
"joe mama at rare bird dot net"
Joe Mama
wrote:
> 1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
Perfectly normal, not to mention that ten different guages will give you ten
different readings, particularly after it has been vibrating on your machine
for a while and the needle is falling off. Theoretically, if the idiot is
on when the ignition is on and the motor is not running and the light goes
out when you fire it up, you have oil pressure, so don't worry about the
guage after the engine is hot and the needle drops to zero..
Gopher
Perfectly normal. Especially if you have your gauge mounted on the
rocker shaft.
If you want a TRUE idea of your oil pressure, tee the gauge into the
port that the idiot light sender is screwed to. (You'll still only get
around 5 lbs at hot idle.)
--
Gopher
'79 FLHassle(tm)
Pull 'Mychain' and spell one to reply.
Wayne Fernandez
>On Wed, 16 May 2001 23:45:07 -0400, Bill75fxe <bill...@spampatico.ca>
>wrote:
>
>> The manual says use up to 110
>> weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
>
>Either you are referring to some off-the-wall manual or I must have missed
>this part, cuz I have never even heard of 110 weight oil. The 90 and 140
>weights are automobile transmission and rear end lube, and there is no
>manual that I have ever heard of which even remotely suggests such a thing
>for any HD motor..
I'm going to take a guess that the 110 thing comes from an old H-D manual.
Remember they talked about oil "grades" using a MoCo unique identification.
It was not really 110 weight oil but referred to how long it would function
under specific conditions before it started to break down. Again, I'm just
guessing.
--
MWF AH 52
The road goes on forever
AH#42
"Joe Mama" <joe...@prozac.net> wrote in message
news:3b03621d...@news.pon.net...
> On Wed, 16 May 2001 23:45:07 -0400, Bill75fxe <bill...@spampatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > The manual says use up to 110
> > weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
>
> Either you are referring to some off-the-wall manual or I must have missed
> this part, cuz I have never even heard of 110 weight oil. The 90 and 140
> weights are automobile transmission and rear end lube, and there is no
> manual that I have ever heard of which even remotely suggests such a thing
> for any HD motor..
well.... ACTUALLY,.... once upon a time, Harley had their OWN oil rating
system, I believe it was based upon a system called 'centipoise'. The
standard oil used was '105' which translated into essentially a straight 50
weight and then there was '110' which was the same as a straight 60
weight... I think they phased out the 105/110 when they brought out the
multi-grade oils for the evos.....
JOIBO....
L8r-
Stroker Ray AH#42
http://members.home.net/75fx
Panhead
That's basically how I remember it as well, sorta, when I was
questioning what the service manuals I had said the same thing.
Ryder Rick
"Gopher" <ecl...@mychainfuture1.com> wrote in message
news:3B03DB9...@mychainfuture1.com...
> Dan Olszewski wrote:
> >
> > 1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
> > After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
> > does not come on. is this normal-/
> > Any help greatly appreciated
>
> Perfectly normal. Especially if you have your gauge mounted on the
> rocker shaft.
> If you want a TRUE idea of your oil pressure, tee the gauge into the
> port that the idiot light sender is screwed to. (You'll still only get
> around 5 lbs at hot idle.)
>
If I am not mistaken the Shovel oiling system does not use pressure, the
pump just delivers the oil to the various parts of the motor where it is
fed, dribbled, or splashed onto the parts in need of lube.
The pressure that turns off the oil light switch is provided by a spring
loaded check valve that, prevents sumping, and provides a small "head
pressure" to the pump to facilitate it's operation.
RickB <iron head sporty's be the same>
ol'boy
I pushed my bike a few miles 'till I learned that. Also bought a new pump.
Some where in the back of my mind, 4 pounds of pressure rings a bell.
--
Dieter
AH#101 BS#31 SENS
My halfast web page:
http://www.olboy.com
Hoppy's Place
"Dan Olszewski" <da...@javanet.com> wrote in message
news:9duv79$lfo$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Situation normal. Check inside oil tank for flow. Probably just fine.
--
Hoppy
BS#7 AH#85 SENS
Reply to: hoppy at crpud dot net
"A crowded elevator smells different to a midget."
Joe Mama
<wayne.f...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>> The manual says use up to 110
>>> weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
>> Either you are referring to some off-the-wall manual or I must have missed
>> this part, cuz I have never even heard of 110 weight oil. The 90 and 140
>> weights are automobile transmission and rear end lube, and there is no
>> manual that I have ever heard of which even remotely suggests such a thing
>> for any HD motor..
> I'm going to take a guess that the 110 thing comes from an old H-D manual.
> Remember they talked about oil "grades" using a MoCo unique identification.
> It was not really 110 weight oil but referred to how long it would function
> under specific conditions before it started to break down. Again, I'm just
> guessing.
Actually, it was Grade 58 - Special Light, below 32 degrees..
Grade 75 - Medium Heavy, 32 to 75 degrees..
Grade 105 - Regular Heavy, above 75 degrees..
To be honest with you, I have no idea what the SAE of these grades actually
was, cuz HD would never tell, but military WW2 specs for the WLA was:
SAE 10W, below 10 degrees..
SAE 30W, 10 to 32 degrees..
SAE 50W, above 32 degrees..
Joe Mama
> well.... ACTUALLY,.... once upon a time, Harley had their OWN oil rating
> system, I believe it was based upon a system called 'centipoise'. The
> standard oil used was '105' which translated into essentially a straight 50
> weight and then there was '110' which was the same as a straight 60
> weight... I think they phased out the 105/110 when they brought out the
> multi-grade oils for the evos.....
I remember the 58, 75 and 105, but don't ever recall a 110. I just went
through a bunch of old manuals dating back to 1930 and couldn't find it.
The first manual that I found the numbered references was 1957..
Joe Mama
wrote:
> If I am not mistaken the Shovel oiling system does not use pressure, the
> pump just delivers the oil to the various parts of the motor where it is
> fed, dribbled, or splashed onto the parts in need of lube.
Not true. If this was the case there would be no oil fed anywhere, as it
takes pressure to force it through the passages, into the hydraulic tappets,
crank pin bearings, etc, and particularly *up* into the rocker arms..
Think about it. If the oil guage shows pressure, how could it work as you
described above?
> The pressure that turns off the oil light switch is provided by a spring
> loaded check valve that, prevents sumping, and provides a small "head
> pressure" to the pump to facilitate it's operation.
Not true again. The oil light switch is an isolated function of the device
itself, independent of the pump ball and spring which determines oil
pressure and prevents oil feedback into the engine..
> RickB <iron head sporty's be the same>
True in this case as far as the oil light and bleedback is concerned, but
the sportster ball and spring does not determine oil pump pressure..
tmgs
>On Wed, 16 May 2001 23:45:07 -0400, Bill75fxe <bill...@spampatico.ca>
>wrote:
>
>> The manual says use up to 110
>> weight when it is hot. Where can you buy that grease these days.
>
>Either you are referring to some off-the-wall manual or I must have missed
>this part, cuz I have never even heard of 110 weight oil. The 90 and 140
>weights are automobile transmission and rear end lube, and there is no
>manual that I have ever heard of which even remotely suggests such a thing
>for any HD motor..
It's true, my manual shows 58 78 105, it is a original Harley Davidson
shop manual
>
>-jm
> 1968 XLCH
>
> To return mail no spam, change the reply address of:
>
> "joe mama at rare bird dot com"
> to
> "joe mama at rare bird dot net"
>
AH #103, SENS, BS #80 FLF
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<http://www.vote-smart.org> Find your elected officials and more
t m g s a t b e l l s o u t h d o t n e t
tmgs
wrote:
>1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
>After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
Take the bike somewhere that has a master gauge for checking oil
pressure, you should have 5lbs or more although at Idle I have seen many
only run 3lbs, don;t take a chance on your engine!
I run Kendall 70 wt in mine year round and it will stay higher than 5,
I'm in Florida
>does not come on. is this normal-/
> Any help greatly appreciated
>
>
AH #103, SENS, BS #80 FLF
Gopher
>
> "Gopher" <ecl...@mychainfuture1.com> wrote in message
> news:3B03DB9...@mychainfuture1.com...
> > Dan Olszewski wrote:
> > >
> > > 1980 shovel total rebuild. Oil pressure 40-50 lbs at cold start.-/
> > > After warm up at running temp 0 oil pressure.The oil ind. light-/
> > > does not come on. is this normal-/
> > > Any help greatly appreciated
> >
> > Perfectly normal. Especially if you have your gauge mounted on the
> > rocker shaft.
> > If you want a TRUE idea of your oil pressure, tee the gauge into the
> > port that the idiot light sender is screwed to. (You'll still only get
> > around 5 lbs at hot idle.)
> >
>
> If I am not mistaken the Shovel oiling system does not use pressure, the
> pump just delivers the oil to the various parts of the motor where it is
> fed, dribbled, or splashed onto the parts in need of lube.
You are mistaken, sorry. There has to be pressure or you won't get any
flow.
There is however more flow than pressure in a shovel compared to a car
because of the use of
roller bearings as opposed to plain bearings. These bearings need a flow
of oil to cool and lube
but don't need the pressure to form an oil film around the tighter
clearances of a plain bearing.
Oiling to the rods, crank and rocker shafts, lifters and cam is under
pressure. The rest of the oiling is
provided by splash or mist.
> The pressure that turns off the oil light switch is provided by a spring
> loaded check valve that, prevents sumping, and provides a small "head
> pressure" to the pump to facilitate it's operation.
Huh? The pressure the sender sees is maybe only slightly higher (1/2 to
1 lb.) than the pressure fed to the engine.
There will be a small pressure drop at the outlet of the pump after the
regulator.
Reading oil pressure at the rocker shaft is bound to be lower than at
the pump as some of the oil has been diverted to the bottom end and
lifters first. Also, the condition of your rocker bushings will affect
oil pressure here. In theory, a very well scavenged engine will actually
show a vacuum here as the differential pressures will pull the oil
through the heads and down into the case. A standard gauge will show low
pressure or vacuum, differential gauge will show the flow.
> RickB <iron head sporty's be the same>
Ryder Rick
We are all saying the same thing I think, I'm just a shitty writer.
I was trying to say that the motor does not rely on oil pressure to stop
metal to metal contact, the only need for pressure is for delivery. Unlike
most any modern domestic auto engine.
I agree I neglected to exclude the rockers and lifters as they do require a
certain amount of pressure.
Aren't they on the same circuit between the pump and the check ball & spring
with the oil pressure switch?
Isn't the rest of the system pressure after the ball & spring virtually nil?
Maybe I should revisit an oil system map, as it has been some time.
RickB
Joe Mama
wrote:
> We are all saying the same thing I think, I'm just a shitty writer.
> I was trying to say that the motor does not rely on oil pressure to stop
> metal to metal contact, the only need for pressure is for delivery. Unlike
> most any modern domestic auto engine.
I'm not sure about the automobile engine pump feeds, but a lot of the con
rod and piston lubrication relies on the "splash" system.
> I agree I neglected to exclude the rockers and lifters as they do require a
> certain amount of pressure.
And the crank pin bearings as well, which is fed through the cam cover, into
the right pinion shaft, through the flywheel and into the crank pin..
> Aren't they on the same circuit between the pump and the check ball & spring
> with the oil pressure switch?
The oil pressure switch is fed directly off of the pump gears. Aside from
preventing feedback when the engine is not running, the ball and spring acts
as a pressure regulator on the way to the feed passages. The early pumps
had a screw adjustment so you could increase the pressure by putting more
tension on the spring and allowing less oil to bypass around the ball. The
later pumps are fixed pressure, but some guys used to stretch the spring..
> Isn't the rest of the system pressure after the ball & spring virtually nil?
Not at all. What causes less pressure at the destination is the restriction
of the passages that the oil has to pass through to get there..
> Maybe I should revisit an oil system map, as it has been some time.
Absolutely..