Nitrogen gas for Shock = $30 to get rebuild filled - yikes!!!!!! Is there a relatively inexpensive home unit???
MXxX_Rooster
I rebuilt my shock and Carmichael Honda charged me $30 just to
recharge the nitrogen gas. There's little volume (almost no
product cost to them), and the "mechanical process" could be performed
by a 5 year old in a couple of minutes.
I have to think that I can obtain a NG Cylinder along with a regulator
for somewhere along the cost of 3 or 4 recharges. Am I wrong? Anyone
have a source for this set up or a better idea of how to get "charged"
for a decent price?
Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Elliott
scrape
wrote:
I'd call around and make friends with some of the suspension
tuners in your area.
fran...123
"MXxX_Rooster" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:07s475ppeq5f12795...@4ax.com...
I think some shocks will take up over 200 psi so you probably would want a
regulator which goes up to 400 psi. They don't cost a lot on eBay but most
don't go that high. not sure in a new el cheapo one still in the $75 range
or that is old. There are different adapters for the inert gas regulators so
you can use it on a carbon dioxide cylinder as well.
Though certainly not recommended if you get two regulators you can usually
unscrew the high pressure gauge on one and screw in the input piece from the
other and fill your cylinder from someone who has a pressurized cylinder.
Actually all you would really need for shock purposes is a tiny little lab
bottle.
Fran
jayc
if your shock has a rubber bladder (I wouldn't use plain air in a
KTM).
JayC
john
"MXxX_Rooster" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:07s475ppeq5f12795...@4ax.com...
PlowBoy,
I mean dang, he might have gouged ya, sure but you know what, if they dont
make money, they close. They probably have to have some kind of insurance
to cover possible problems with high pressure stuff. plus meet increasing
governmental regulations, pay salaries, etc etc. Im just using obvious
rational thoughts here, I dont know of course, so I doubt they charged you
for "volume" on nitrogen, probably a fee to provide that service, which you
have since calculated into a per cubic centemeter... I would have to know
if they are gouging you on EVERYTHING they sell before I said it was totally
out of line at that price. IMHO.
to me it seems not so unfair, to have someone with all the tools and
equipment necessary, to buy him a 12 pack and pay for his raw materials (if
he's a buddy ya know) so 15 bucks and whatever the nitrogen actually costs
him wasnt out of line, but then again your buddy isnt probably trying to
feed his family doin shock recharges for you neither? sure you could argue
that the shop isnt feeding family or live or die on nitrogen sales either I
guess. but it does add up.
Sumptin wierd since everyone got on the internet, everything is apparently
supposed to be free now, like music and porn was...
"fran...123" <storkenst...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:jVBcm.79183$zq1....@newsfe22.iad...
Mike Baxter
wrote:
>Hello!!!!
I have a couple N2 tanks in my garage and a regulator that needs the
nipple replaced. Left-overs from my previous job. The single 80CM
tank and regulator cost about $175. Then you need the fittings and
hose to deliver from the regulator to the shock. Total about
$200-225.
Mike Baxter
Wellen - '02 200exc & '04 MTD 38"
Worked great.
I couldn't see paying that much $ either.
Pirates.
-Yo
Mike W.
wrote:
I think you (OP) needs to talk to Deeney regarding setup. Might even be
deja-able in RMD. I saw it live and he took this to 11... very impressive.
Mike
ps - $30 for a one-time service cost of this kind really isn't gouging, and
at many businesses, that would fall into the bucket of losing money. He's
providing a service that gets you down the road with more heartbeats.
--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3
jayc
> at many businesses, that would fall into the bucket of losing money.
Tire shops fill a whole tire with nitrogen for $3.
JayC
Mike W.
I wonder if there's a supply chain model that can move that to Malaysia for
less...
M
dsc-ky
> On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 06:49:26 -0400, scrape <scrapeNOTHA...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:37:56 -0700, MXxX_Rooster <n...@home.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree... it's a fair price...
HellSickle
I bought my own cylinder & regulator. It paid for itself in the first few
charges. The tough part to find will be a regulator with a secondary stage
in the range of 300-400psi. I found one on Ebay.
-Jeff-
Mike Baxter
wrote:
No problem. Buy an oxygen regulator and change the fitting to work on
the N2 bottle. I used them for 5 years as an air source for the
dental lasers at shows and demos.
Mike Baxter
DanKMTB
Just curious, how much was the suspension rebuild kit/parts? Never
dealt w/ it on the dirt bikes (they always had aftermarket stuff that
worked well longer than I kept the bike) but for my road race bike a
full service on the rear penski is $100. I'm not complaining.
jayc
> the N2 bottle. I used them for 5 years as an air source for the
> dental lasers at shows and demos.
I vote for an NO2 system, rigged like a scuba tank.
JayC
john
that explains alot....(oh wait that N2O)
nevermind.....
>JayC
I have a LARG nitrogen tank here at my shop
we purge "containers" with a few thousand
gallons worth of the stuff each month
if some one brings the fittings to hook up to
my system to their shock i'd fill it for 30 bucks <grin>
check local speed shop & see if they cater to off road
trucks the usual charge is 5-10 bucks a shock
industrial gas shops should have a regulator kits
0-500 psi setup for nitrogen tanks for 200-500 bucks...
john
greedy capitalist
jayc
> "jayc" <Mr. Whippet huffed and he puffed>
>
> >> No problem. Buy an oxygen regulator and change the fitting to work on
> >> the N2 bottle. I used them for 5 years as an air source for the
> >> dental lasers at shows and demos.
>
> >I vote for an NO2 system, rigged like a scuba tank.
>
> that explains alot....(oh wait that N2O)
> nevermind.....
Oops - I meant N2O...dammit - I hate when a simple typo completely
ruins a decent joke.
JayC
MXxX_Rooster
>
>Just curious, how much was the suspension rebuild kit/parts? Never
>dealt w/ it on the dirt bikes (they always had aftermarket stuff that
>worked well longer than I kept the bike) but for my road race bike a
>full service on the rear penski is $100. I'm not complaining.
If you paid only 100 bucks for a full service, that's great! Although
there is a huge variance on what needs to be replaced depending on
what is showing wear! Before I learned how to do it myself I paid 100
for a simple oil change/seal change service. I replaced the teflon
band as well as the shock seal head assembly which was $60 from Race
Tech by itself (much more OEM). And a new bottom out bumper was 30
bucks. Add Oil cost and it was about 140 plus 30 to recharge the
nitrogen.
Now about being a cheap-skate... I certainly don't mind paying a
decent price/wage for parts/service, but a shock is supposed to be
serviced (oil change min.) about every 30 hours. That ends up being a
few times a year (and it doesn't hurt to do it a bit more often). At
$90 a year, I'm willing to invest 300-400 dollars in a tank and reg. A
full tank will last a loooong time with the amount of gas a bladder
takes and I can recoup my investment in a few years - not to mention I
won't have to burn gas and time taking it to a shop that "may" do it
while I wait. And I can stoke my riding buddies and fill their shock
(for a 6er, of course... and it gives us a reason to hang for an
evening in the garage with the wives and kids out of our hair!!! :-) )
Thanks to all for the info on attaining a setup for my personal use!
If any of the nay-sayers who think I should pay $30 for a 10 second
charge are in the Sac-town area, I'll gladly charge your shock for a
discounted $25, and I'll throw in a beer while we do it!!! :-)
Thanks again, guys, for the responses!!!!
dsc-ky
> Now about being a cheap-skate... I certainly don't mind paying a
> decent price/wage for parts/service, but a shock is supposed to be
> serviced (oil change min.) about every 30 hours. That ends up being a
> few times a year (and it doesn't hurt to do it a bit more often).
I see your point if you are doing it 3 times a year. I do it more like
2 times a decade. :) But if I had the tools and knowledge, I would
probably do it more often.
dsc-ky
> Thanks to all for the info on attaining a setup for my personal use!
> If any of the nay-sayers who think I should pay $30 for a 10 second
> charge are in the Sac-town area, I'll gladly charge your shock for a
> discounted $25, and I'll throw in a beer while we do it!!! :-)
How much to do an oil change? :)
HellSickle
I charge $80 for shock oil & recharge.
Standard fee for just recharging N2 is a six pack of microbrew.
Getting the rest of my suspension tools out of the "hostage situation"
any day now....
-Jeff-
DanKMTB
> >Just curious, how much was the suspension rebuild kit/parts? Never
> >dealt w/ it on the dirt bikes (they always had aftermarket stuff that
> >worked well longer than I kept the bike) but for my road race bike a
> >full service on the rear penski is $100. I'm not complaining.
>
> If you paid only 100 bucks for a full service, that's great! Although
> there is a huge variance on what needs to be replaced depending on
> what is showing wear! Before I learned how to do it myself I paid 100
> for a simple oil change/seal change service. I replaced the teflon
> band as well as the shock seal head assembly which was $60 from Race
> Tech by itself (much more OEM). And a new bottom out bumper was 30
> bucks. Add Oil cost and it was about 140 plus 30 to recharge the
> nitrogen.
That's the going rate for the guy @ our local road race track. $100
to service a rear penski shock, which strikes me as a hell of a
bargain. OTOH it's $195 at the very least for fork service, including
oil and seals. Anything additional or any changes and it goes up.
$195 seems a bit high for oil & seals in the forks to me, but the guy
is a complete guru so I'll pay up happily. It's a road race bike, I'm
not working on anything I'm not 100% sure about on my own. Suspension
is just too important, especially riding a foot from concrete nascar
walls, past trees & jersey barriers, etc. He's getting my shock and
forks this winter, and I expect to spend well over $300. I think I'm
going to go a bit overboard with the forks, get them done up quite a
bit and dialed for my exact weight, in full gear.
Good luck with your project.
dsc-ky
Do you service KTMs?
jayc
> is a complete guru so I'll pay up happily.
If the forks are of simplistic conventional (old) design, like a WP or
older jap, it's highway robbery. OTOH, if the forks are a multi-
chambered design like the new Showa or KYBs on my CR/CRF, it's an
'effin bargain.
JayC
DanKMTB
97 EX (Ninja) 500. With the exception of a switch to 17" wheels, the
bike stayed more or less the same from it's birth 85ish to 2004ish.
OTOH, there's no way they are stock, it's a road race bike so I'm sure
they've got some internal work. Don't know what as it's my first
season with the bike and they've not been apart. I'll find out when
they go to the suspension guy this winter. I also think the $195
service/oil/seal may be a flat rate regardless of the make, so maybe
he's making a little off the easier ones where he loses it on the more
complex ones?
MXxX_Rooster
>> How much to do an oil change? :)
>
>I charge $80 for shock oil & recharge.
>
>Standard fee for just recharging N2 is a six pack of microbrew.
>
Where ya at, Jeff? In the Sac-Town area??? I'll suppliment that
micro brew 6-er with some of my home brew for a recharge!!! ;-)
HardWorkingDog
MXxX_Rooster <no...@home.com> wrote:
Unfortunately he lives right next door to the New Belgium Brewing Co.
I think I'm going to have a Fat Tire right now, now that I've brought
it up :)
Welcome to rmd, by the way. There's a few of us in the Bay Area, don't
know of anyone out your way, guess I'm closest, in the 925
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
stewart....@outlook.com
sturd....@gmail.com
> Air is same? Air increases in volume as it mooves nitrogen keeps same volume
> as temp increaces....
other stuff) and pure nitrogen behave per Boyle's law - PV=nRT. That is, if the
temperature increases, either the pressure or the volume also increase.
However, Nitrogen from a tank has no oxygen or water vapor, both of which react with metals and elastomers in your shock.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
Futility Man
>Nitrogen from a tank has no oxygen or water vapor, both of which react with metals and elastomers in your shock.
I just rebuilt a Works Pro Racer shock that I've been running for over 20 years.
Parts to rebuild it were dirt cheap online and the rebuild process was simple.
It's just a seal, a few o-rings, and a rubber bladder that looks like an
industrial condom. The eBay seller was out of California, was most helpful on
the phone in making sure I got the right kit for my antique shock. I left
feedback on his site saying that it fits the Pro Racer since his description
didn't specifically mention it. Apparently most Works (and later Worx) shocks
use one of two different kits, the only difference being the diameter of the
shock rod. There are apparently two different sized bladders and luckily he
stocked the one I needed.
The only thing I couldn't do for myself was the nitrogen because that requires a
nitrogen tank, a regulator that will go up to 250 pounds, and a zero loss chuck
assembly. None of that stuff is cheap and that's why they charge you $30 for
that tiny puff of nitrogen.
Welding shops will have the nitrogen, usually, and they may even have the
regulator, but they won't the zero-loss chuck. Tire shops that offer nitrogen
for tires will have it all except the chuck. You can buy your own chuck for
about $50 and then all you have to do is find someone who is willing to connect
their nitrogen source to your regulator. Or you can pay $30 a shot from someone
who has all the stuff. Buying a nitrogen cylinder to charge one or two shocks
is the equivalent of buying a swimming pool to get a cup of water.
Whatever you do, DO NOT check your nitrogen pressure with a common tire gauge.
The volume of nitrogen in most shocks is so tiny that checking it a time or two
with a common gauge will let most of it out and if you weren't low before you
checked, you will be after you do check.
I have a family member who builds off-road dune buggies and he had all the
recharge stuff.
--
Futility Man
john
dry nitrogen blanket <-60deg c dew point> before we ship them to the
chemical plants.... our method is to pressurize then vent-purge to a few
psi. replete 3 times. this gets us to a dry nitrogen state quickly.
purging 3 times is pretty much industry standard to get most of the air
out. some folks go 5-10 times if the product is really persnickety about
contamination. for a shock i'd just fill & burp, fill & burp, fill to
desired psi.
john
gasgas ec250
XR650L_Dave
Doesn't store for long as a liquid though!
john
yes i suppose you could do that, "once"....