Yamaha design flaw
Serge Zoritch
received.
I will post any reply that is received.
Thanks
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Serge Zoritch
Address deleted
Canada
09-09-22
Takashi Kajikawa
President & CEO
Yamaha Motor Co. LTD
2500, Shingai,, Iwata, Shizuoka
438-8501, Japan
Konnichiwa,
I am a long time customer of Yamaha motor products, having owned five
Yamaha motorcycles over thirty-five (35) years. The reason I am writing
you this letter is because of my most recent Yamaha motorcycle purchase.
In 2004, I bought a new FJR1300 and all of the available Yamaha
accessories. This was my dream motorcycle come true.
A short while ago I took that motorcycle to a Yamaha dealer in Salmon
Arm, BC, to have them diagnose a loud ticking noise coming from the
engine. I assumed it to be something that required an adjustment. A
few days later I received a telephone call from the service manager
(XXXXXXXX) of that dealership and was told that the exhaust valve guides
were failing and that it would cost about thirty five hundred dollars
($3,500) to repair. The gentleman explained that he had called the
local Yamaha Representative who explained that it is a known design flaw
in that year of FJR1300 motorcycle. Apparently the dealer's service
manager asked the rep. if Yamaha would cover the some or all of the cost
of the repairs, seeing as it was a manufacturer�s flaw. The rep's reply
was that the motorcycle is five years over the warranty period and that,
had the failure occurred within two years of the warranty, Yamaha would
have covered it.
I should add at this time that the motorcycle now has just over 17,000
km. The motorcycle is in pristine condition, has been dealer serviced,
according to the maintenance schedule in the owner's manual, and has
been garage stored for six months of the year, every year, since it was
bought. The winters where I live are harsh enough to make motorcycle
riding dangerous.
Having found the local Yamaha rep's response unacceptable, I called
Yamaha's Canadian headquarters in Toronto and talked to a two people in
the customer service department. I asked both of them if they thought
it reasonable to expect a twenty thousand dollar motorcycle to have a
motor life expectancy of 17,000 km? Neither of them would answer the
question and kept on repeating that it is five years over the warranty
period as if it were some kind of mantra.
This letter is an appeal to your sense of fairness. I refer to your
Management Principles from the 2009 Yamaha Corporation Fact Book. �We
strive to achieve our corporate mission by adhering to three principals.
#1. Creating value that surpasses customer�s expectations. We must
remain keenly aware of customer's evolving needs, in order to provide
them with quality products and services of exceptional value that
surpass their expectations. We can and will earn a fair profit by
making all-out efforts to satisfy our customers.� (The other two
principals refer to management objectives.)
I ask you:
- Do you think it reasonable to expect a $20,000 dollar motorcycle to
have a motor life expectancy of 17,000 km? Is this a reasonable
expectation?
- Does it sound like my expectations have been surpassed?
- Is this an example of your definition of either quality products or
services?
- Is this really an all-out effort to satisfy me as a loyal Yamaha Motor
Product customer?
I await your response.
Sincerely yours,
Serge Zoritch
P.S. The motorcycle was parked in my garage for almost three years (I
had seizures due to a brain tumor.) The tumor was removed in Feb. 2007
but I could not drive for two more years as I continued with more
seizures. This accounts for the low mileage.
The seizures are now under control and I would like to ride my
motorcycle.
S.Z.
Cc: Yamaha newsgroups
HardWorkingDog
Serge Zoritch <som...@spammagnet.com> wrote:
> The letter, below, was mailed 09.10.05. To date, no response has been
> received.
> I will post any reply that is received.
> Thanks
Perhaps they are still translating it?
I found this information in about 3 minutes of searching with google,
maybe it will point you to a better way to get this resolved:
http://www.bestbits.org/tick_quick_summary.html
Good luck.
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
Plowboy
and say get a Suzuki, then if I was mr Yamaha, had it not been for his brain
thingy. (I guess some compassion is in order there...)
dang, in the early 70's we were buying 2 bikes every year or less (out of 4
bikes), lol. back when they were only like 600 bucks new on showrooms, of
course. hell people that buy cars every 3 years, from the same dealers...
They might get "super" service, but the one that buys one once every 7?
hell the president/owner let alone the service department monkeys, of the
dealership turn over faster than that nowdays... lol
"HardWorkingDog" <har...@mush.man> wrote in message
news:harvey-EF1259....@individual.net...
Datesfat Chicks
news:Xns9CC7CDA6FD12...@69.16.185.250...
To a very minor degree, your point of view is unreasonable.
The warranty is the only obligation that the manufacturer has. Period.
It is all a matter of degrees. Given enough time and usage, any
manufactured product will wear out. The manufacturer can't make them last
forever. If your expectations go beyond the warranty, that isn't Yamaha's
fault.
But I agree with you that 11,000 miles is outrageous for a major engine
problem that was not provoked by you.
I see your point in expecting a reasonably-built product.
But I also see Yamaha's point in pointing out that the warranty has long
expired.
Datesfat
Mike W.
wrote:
>The letter, below, was mailed 09.10.05. To date, no response has been
>received.
>I will post any reply that is received.
>Thanks
You have been a loyal customer. That no longer matters. Something I have
done successfully with a provider to whom I have been exceptionally loyal,
and who had recently screwed me, was this... I added up all the dollars I
have spent with them over 20-plus years and wrote a letter in a business
voice which promised my objective was to engage in a passionate information
dissemination process that I estimated as a businessman would probably cost
them more than they have made from me over the course of my life. It can
work. Carrots and sticks... you need both, but be subtle... avoid the
direct threat. Good luck.
Mike
--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3
TOG@Toil
> "Serge Zoritch" <some...@spammagnet.com> wrote in message
>
>
> To a very minor degree, your point of view is unreasonable.
>
> The warranty is the only obligation that the manufacturer has. Period.
>
which takes prcedence and has things like "reasonable" and "fitness
for purpose" to consider.
I don't know whether there's a comparable US consumer law.
That said, yammering after many years is a bit silly.
Stephen Cowell
"Serge Zoritch" <som...@spammagnet.com> wrote
> The letter, below, was mailed 09.10.05. To date, no response has been
> received.
> I will post any reply that is received.
> Thanks
You're using NG's... you should be howling on a
forum somewhere, that's what they pay attention to.
Also, since you've passed their 2-year boundary,
you should probably be satisfied with a partial
good-will job instead of expecting the entire job
for free.
I just got my bike out of the shop for
a good-will job... fixed for free, almost 2 years
out of warranty. I screamed, I bitched... but
getting the dealer's service dept. to go to bat
for me, and bitching on the largest public forum,
seemed to do the trick. Also helped to have
a history with the problem (the infamous Dyna
inner-primary bearing of 2006!) having been
repaired once before (band-aid only) within the
warranty period.
__
Steve
.
dsc-ky
--
> Mike W.
Does anyone else have a hard time with this picture... :)
Sean_Q_
> That said, yammering after many years is a bit silly.
Not if it works.
SQ
The Older Gentleman
Very true. Doesn't seem to be, though.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
The Older Gentleman
> You're using NG's
Including two that don't seem to exist and which I've snipped.
Datesfat Chicks
news:486d1637-bd13-4d53...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
I don't think yammering after years is a bit silly for a bike with about
11,000 miles on it.
Consumers have the expectation that a lightly-ridden motorcycle will last a
while.
Perhaps the right answer is for Yamaha to change their warranty to a more
complicated time and mileage formula.
Something like "1 year unconditionally with no mileage limit, no warranty
claims allowed after 10 years, and any motorcycle older than one year but
younger than 10 years up to 30,000 miles".
Something like that.
Of course, nobody would ever tamper with an odometer to try to get the
manufacturer to foot the bill for an expensive repair.
Datesfat
Datesfat Chicks
news:486d1637-bd13-4d53...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
I don't think yammering after years is a bit silly for a bike with about
The Older Gentleman
> I don't think yammering after years is a bit silly for a bike with about
> 11,000 miles on it.
It is if it's as old as this one. Where do you draw the line? At a bike
that's 20 years old and has only done 1000 miles?
HellSickle
$3500 for valve guides? You could buy a good used bike for that
amount.
Option B: fix it yourself. Motorcycles are very expensive if you
need to pay someone else to do the work. With a service manual, it's
not rocket surgery. A few special tools might be required.
Yet another reason I took an oath 10 years ago to never own a bike
with more than 2 cylinders.
-Jeff-
Mike W.
wrote:
ROFL!!!
I just got off a call with Israel.. "Why won't you come here and give that
talk?" "Because someday, someone is going to have all the parts to make a
nuke and blow your ass to the moon." Just to show I CAN be subtle:)
M
The Older Gentleman
> $3500 for valve guides? You could buy a good used bike for that
> amount.
>
> Option B: fix it yourself.
Yes
>Motorcycles are very expensive if you
> need to pay someone else to do the work. With a service manual, it's
> not rocket surgery.
Um, new valve guides is not really a home mechanic job.
> A few special tools might be required.
No shit.
>
> Yet another reason I took an oath 10 years ago to never own a bike
> with more than 2 cylinders.
>
Found out how much a top end job costs on a Ducati 999, Luddite? ;-)
Datesfat Chicks
news:480f975b-fa05-43cb...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> With a service manual, it's
> not rocket surgery.
Nor is it brain science.
Datesfat
S'mee
Naw the cunt should either fix it or get something new. It's out of
warrenty and he's whiny little cunt.
S'mee
wrote:
> "HellSickle" <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
Obviously sir is severly missinformed...or not to terribly bright.
Sean_Q_
> Naw the cunt should either fix it or get something new. It's out of
> warrenty and he's whiny little cunt.
You would be surprised (or dismayed) at how well whining pays off
for various marginalized persons and groups if they can arouse
the guilty consciences of various hand-wringers in the Power Structure.
For instance, some descendents of former slaves have been demanding
compensation for unlawful confinement, denial of civil liberties,
unpaid labor, assault and battery, human trafficking, rape, failure
to hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree and other crimes against
humanity and offenses of moral turpitude.
When all they got were a few lame (and non-compensatory) apologies
some of them began to award themselves compensation anyway
by inventing their own income tax deductions for "Slavery Recompense".
In this way they were able to get the issue into court as a legal
challenge when the IRS naturally objected.
Well, shoot, if that works out I might just sue the British Government
for the Sack of Wexford, the Sieges of Limerick and Galway and
the Battle of the Boyne.
SQ
MXEditor
Solution:
Join Twitter
Get 10,000 or more follower
Call yourself a "digital influencer"
Write your story in sub 140 character snippets
Tweet it to your followers
Yamaha will contact you ASAP
Datesfat Chicks
news:f357f23f-27c7-4420...@w19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
"Digital influencer" is kind of a boring term.
I'd call myself a psychonaut:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychonaut
Datesfat
S'mee
> S'mee wrote:
> > Naw the cunt should either fix it or get something new. It's out of
> > warrenty and he's whiny little cunt.
>
> You would be surprised (or dismayed) at how well whining pays off
> for various marginalized persons and groups if they can arouse
> the guilty consciences of various hand-wringers in the Power Structure.
Guilty conscience? CHECK!
BUT I have a spine and the more people whine the less I
listen...especially those who are in a group less than 5%. Unlike most
who cave I've got a spine and a pair of large Teflon coated Ti bawlz.
8^) whinning gets less and less, reasonable behaviour does far better.
> For instance, some descendents of former slaves have been demanding
> compensation for unlawful confinement, denial of civil liberties,
> unpaid labor, assault and battery, human trafficking, rape, failure
> to hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree and other crimes against
> humanity and offenses of moral turpitude.
Fuck the bastards...nobody should have to pair for what their great-
greats did. Period anyone who want money off a person for behaviour of
a ancestor is a leech and a thief.
> When all they got were a few lame (and non-compensatory) apologies
> some of them began to award themselves compensation anyway
> by inventing their own income tax deductions for "Slavery Recompense".
> In this way they were able to get the issue into court as a legal
> challenge when the IRS naturally objected.
Fuck'em send them a bill AND penalties for not paying taxes/cheating
properly on their taxes. The self enfranchaised are inherently
entitled to a boot to the ass and head then sent on their way.
> Well, shoot, if that works out I might just sue the British Government
> for the Sack of Wexford, the Sieges of Limerick and Galway and
> the Battle of the Boyne.
Heh let's sue mongolia for sacking europe...
BrianNZ
> On Nov 19, 10:45 pm, Sean_Q_ <no.s...@no.spam> wrote:
>> S'mee wrote:
>>> Naw the cunt should either fix it or get something new. It's out of
>>> warrenty and he's whiny little cunt.
>> You would be surprised (or dismayed) at how well whining pays off
>> for various marginalized persons and groups if they can arouse
>> the guilty consciences of various hand-wringers in the Power Structure.
>
> Guilty conscience? CHECK!
>
> BUT I have a spine and the more people whine the less I
> listen...especially those who are in a group less than 5%. Unlike most
> who cave I've got a spine and a pair of large Teflon coated Ti bawlz.
> 8^) whinning gets less and less, reasonable behaviour does far better.
>
>> For instance, some descendents of former slaves have been demanding
>> compensation for unlawful confinement, denial of civil liberties,
>> unpaid labor, assault and battery, human trafficking, rape, failure
>> to hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree and other crimes against
>> humanity and offenses of moral turpitude.
>
> Fuck the bastards...nobody should have to pair for what their great-
> greats did. Period anyone who want money off a person for behaviour of
> a ancestor is a leech and a thief.
Come down and tell that to the Maori. In some cases they were ripped off
by the govt. of the day and do deserve some compensation for their
stolen lands (don't think the Scots/Irish would fare so well demanding
compensation from the Poms?). But there has been a whole gravy train
built around 'treaty settlements'....'full and final' payments made 30
years ago have been dragged back to the courts by the next generation
who say the previous payouts weren't enough....give us some more. As
long as some Moari keep bringing up their kids to believe we are
colonial oppressors there is no hope of this perceived debt ever being
paid off. Once they realise they are born with the same opportunities
(in their case more opportunities due to race based payouts) as everyone
else and get off their arses (and social welfare benefits) and make
something of themselves (rather than be handed stuff for bleating) they
will be better for it.
S'mee
Tough shit...they got a pay off. Now deal with it that their parents
blew it on cheap booze. No different than some tribes in the states.
Fuck'em if they don't like it.
Sean_Q_
>> For instance, some descendents of former slaves have been demanding
>> compensation
>
> Fuck the bastards...nobody should have to pair for what their great-
> greats did.
All persons who were slaves in the USA and/or CSA between July 4, 1776
and December 18, 1865 should be included as plaintiffs in a large
class action lawsuit.
Their wrongful injuries would be evaluated for specific items such as
unpaid labour, denied opportunity to realize human potential,
insult to dignity, denial of medical care and whatever other damages
were sustained, less expenses.
The defendants would be any legal heirs of the perpetrators of these
injuries who have inherited any money, property, portable possessions
and/or any other valuable considerations from the perps which was
acquired through the exploitation of the plaintiffs.
They would be awarded compensation on a case by case basis depending
on value of wrongful injuries sustained.
Of course, all the plaintiffs are by this time deceased. Therefore
it would be the legal heirs of the plaintiffs would inherit pro rata
shares of the amounts awarded.
Think of all the lawyers and accountants who would become wealthy,
and the media sensation...
SQ
PrairieRider
You forgot the stolen Maori children.
S'mee - the devil's in the circumstances and details. Been to any
western Indian reservations lately or followed the doings of the
BIA?
Who knows, maybe after a few hundred or thousand years go by,
things'll be just fine.
PrairieRider
few miles...I would call it business ethics, common sense or what have
you. Heck, I called Clarke the other day because I bought 2nd hand a
never been used tank, and a month or so ago, the gasket ripped out for
no apparent reason. In less than a minute, Clarke said they're
sending me a new cap, no charge. I realize a cap's far less expensive
than a valve guide job, but a company ought to stand by their product.
The Older Gentleman
For how long? Serious question.
I'd suggest that this is too long, here.
S'mee
with in REASON yes. Had to replace a clutch on a 97' Saturn SL about
1,500mi past warranty. A Saturn rep was at the dealership (no after
market clutch available at the time had to go to them) who saw our
clutch and said that the clutch should NOT have gotten even 10,000mi
much less all the way past warranty. It was the rep's decision to
replace the clutch...apparently they'd had similar clutch issues that
didn't make it that far. No I didn't get to see the clutch. I'd say
it's up to a factory rep to take a look-see and make the call.
S'mee
ooooo, sarcasm with just a hint of snippy irony. Nice, keep up the
good work.
PrairieRider
the consumer is at the mercy of a particular rep unless there are
multiples in the area. Personally, I don't think five years is too
long given the circumstances of this particular bike especially
considering the low miles and presumably excellent condition
otherwise.
Perhaps the problem is that if the parent company dictates the terms
of the warranty without teaching their reps the ethics behind the
policy, then the consumer is screwed if anything happens after the end
date. If the company makes it a lifetime warranty, they they could
lose their shirt. You and I are thankful that some folks have common
sense and knowledge to make a decision knowing that their company will
stand behind them. It would be difficult IMO to dictate terms of a
forward thinking warranty for such a problem without first changing
corporate attitude towards customers. In this case, Yamaha just
doesn't care. So, seems like making a lot of noise to make them care
might work (I've seen it work in many many cases), and/or don't buy
their products. I suppose if a person really like their products, he/
she can just hope this is a fluke, continue to buy, and hope that they
don't have to deal with any out of warranty repairs.
Stephen Cowell
"PrairieRider" <psbe...@yahoo.com> wrote
> As far as Yamaha goes, of course they should fix it. Known problem,
> few miles...I would call it business ethics, common sense or what have
> you.
It has a proper name... 'good will' is the language
used in the industry.
__
Steve
.
Chuck Rhode
> But there has been a whole gravy train built around 'treaty
> settlements'....'full and final' payments made 30 years ago have
> been dragged back to the courts by the next generation who say the
> previous payouts weren't enough....give us some more.
It helps to have a paper treaty that specifies assets to which value
can be imputed. Good luck with receiving compound interest, though:
"In 1980, the Supreme Court upheld a 1979 ruling of a special Court of
Claims awarding the Sioux $17.5 million, the fair market value of the
Black Hills in 1877, plus $89.3 million, simple interest for 102 years
at 5% per year, because the 1877 act of Congress amounted to an
uncompensated taking. The issue had been in litigation since 1923.
"The Sioux have never yet accepted this settlement, however, and
desire the return of such portions of western South Dakota as now
remain in Federal hands. They argue that even the shrine to America's
Founding Fathers cut into Mount Rushmore renders the Black Hills no
more sacrosanct to secular humanists than Harney Peak is sacred to
them. The continuing dispute clouds further development of mineral
resources in the area."
"[In 2002 t]he Homestake Mine in Lead, SD, closed after extracting
since its inception in 1876 some 40 million ounces of gold, which
would have a value of over [$46] billion at current prices."
o Rhode, Chuck. "Defense." The Flat Route. 31 Dec. 2007. Lacus Veris.
22 Nov. 2009 <http://lacusveris.com/Moab/Snaps/Defense.shtml#0120>.
--
.. Be Seeing You,
.. Chuck Rhode, Sheboygan, WI, USA
.. Weather: http://LacusVeris.com/WX
.. 37° — Wind Calm — Sky mist.
Chuck Rhode
> The defendants would be any legal heirs of the perpetrators of these
> injuries who have inherited any money, property, portable
> possessions and/or any other valuable considerations from the perps
> which was acquired through the exploitation of the plaintiffs.
I suppose this counts as a whoosh, but I think you'll find that the
political leadership of the CSA lost title to their land and property
(including slaves) during Reconstruction, so any assets that could be
attached have long since been dispersed.
Sean_Q_
> I suppose this counts as a whoosh, but I think you'll find that the
> political leadership of the CSA lost title to their land and property
> (including slaves) during Reconstruction, so any assets that could be
> attached have long since been dispersed.
I'm no expert in economics so I'm not sure that the above is how it all
went down.
What I'm talking about is the unjust enrichment of slave owners
through the unpaid labor of their human property. This value
should be returned to the rightful owners through a law similar
to the UK's Proceeds of Crime Act.
To say, "Let's compensate the Negroes for slavery" might sound good
(to some, particularly the beneficiaries) but what would it really mean
in detail? A lump sum payment to every African-American? And who pays?
The American taxpayers? That would punish the innocent along with
the (heirs of the) guilty.
There are precedents for righting wrongs committed long in the past.
For instance the Metis rebel leader Louis Riel was pardoned (a century
after he was hanged, so it didn't undo his execution). Gerald Ford
restored Robert E. Lee's American citizenship, for whatever that
was worth. Concerning money, settlements over native land claims
pending for centuries can involve payments of $millions. Germany has
paid Israel big sums in connection with the Holocaust.
The Blacks have suffered not only slavery but a century of exploitation
and abuse with sharecropping, Jim Crow, lynchings, segregation, police
harassment, etc. And it's not over even now, considering the Louisiana
JP who denied a mixed-race couple their Constitutional right to marry.
On the dismantling of Apartheid the South African government convened
a special tribunal called the Truth and Reconciliation commission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_%28South_Africa%29
As far as I can tell, the United States neglected to enact such
a formality, specifically designed to bear witness to wrongs committed
and to righting them, at least as far as possible.
American author John Jay Chapman (1862–1933) said: "There was never
a moment in our history when slavery was not a sleeping serpent."
Sleeping or not, the serpent still seems to be there; its poison still
festers, and it needs eradicating.
This ends another attempt at profound social commentary.
SQ
The Older Gentleman
> What I'm talking about is the unjust enrichment of slave owners
> through the unpaid labor of their human property. This value
> should be returned to the rightful owners through a law similar
> to the UK's Proceeds of Crime Act.
Um, if you had read even one-tenth of the way that Act is being abused,
you wouldn't say this. Plod tried to use it to seize the (perfectly
legit) home of someone I know personally.
J. Clarke
> Chuck Rhode wrote:
>
>> I suppose this counts as a whoosh, but I think you'll find that the
>> political leadership of the CSA lost title to their land and property
>> (including slaves) during Reconstruction, so any assets that could be
>> attached have long since been dispersed.
>
> I'm no expert in economics so I'm not sure that the above is how it
> all
> went down.
>
> What I'm talking about is the unjust enrichment of slave owners
> through the unpaid labor of their human property. This value
> should be returned to the rightful owners through a law similar
> to the UK's Proceeds of Crime Act.
You've _got_ to be an out-of-work lawyer to come up with something like
this.
There would be at least two elements that had to be proven--that a
particular individual was descended from a slave and that a particular
individual was descended from the owner of that slave before you could even
_begin_ to assign compensation. That in itself is going to be a huge effort
with immense potential for fraud and vendetta. Then there's the matter of
what constitutes just compensation--are you going to award a lifetime of
earnings with interest? If so you're going to be bankrupting people right
and left. And can you imagine the rioting the first that a white person
proves that his ancestors were owned by a black person (yes, it happened,
slavery for life, not "indentured servants").
> To say, "Let's compensate the Negroes for slavery" might sound good
> (to some, particularly the beneficiaries) but what would it really
> mean
> in detail? A lump sum payment to every African-American? And who pays?
> The American taxpayers? That would punish the innocent along with
> the (heirs of the) guilty.
Are we also going to compensate the Irish? And why do we owe money to
someone whose family moved to the United States from Africa in, say, the
1920s? And why do all the Jews who came to the US to escape the Nazis owe
anybody anything for slavery? Or any of the others millions who came to the
US long after slavery was ended?
> There are precedents for righting wrongs committed long in the past.
> For instance the Metis rebel leader Louis Riel was pardoned (a century
> after he was hanged, so it didn't undo his execution). Gerald Ford
> restored Robert E. Lee's American citizenship, for whatever that
> was worth. Concerning money, settlements over native land claims
> pending for centuries can involve payments of $millions. Germany has
> paid Israel big sums in connection with the Holocaust.
>
> The Blacks have suffered not only slavery but a century of
> exploitation
> and abuse with sharecropping, Jim Crow, lynchings, segregation, police
> harassment, etc. And it's not over even now, considering the Louisiana
> JP who denied a mixed-race couple their Constitutional right to marry.
Well, there's a guy who has screwed himself royally.
> On the dismantling of Apartheid the South African government convened
> a special tribunal called the Truth and Reconciliation commission.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth_and_Reconciliation_Commission_%28South_Africa%29
> As far as I can tell, the United States neglected to enact such
> a formality, specifically designed to bear witness to wrongs committed
> and to righting them, at least as far as possible.
At the time the Federal government had no authority to "enact such a
formality" (much of its power is the result of the courts subsequent
interpretation of the Fourteenth Amendment and at the time it's doubtful
that the courts would have allowed it at the time), and the state
legislatures in formerly slave states had so much on their plate, what with
having just had a war rampaging through their territory and cities being
burned down and all, that robbing people who had nothing to pay other people
who had nothing didn't seem like much of a priority. Apartheid in South
Africa was ended by a vote, not by a war--they didn't have a bunch of burnt
out rubble to sift through before they could even begin to think about
fairness.
> American author John Jay Chapman (1862–1933) said: "There was never
> a moment in our history when slavery was not a sleeping serpent."
> Sleeping or not, the serpent still seems to be there; its poison still
> festers, and it needs eradicating.
>
> This ends another attempt at profound social commentary.
Slavery was ended more than a century ago and it has been shown that a
determined black man can achieve any office in the United States government,
so the excuse "we're poor and downtrodden because great-great grandpa was a
slave" just doesn't fly anymore.
HellSickle
Gentleman) wrote:
> HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Um, new valve guides is not really a home mechanic job.
Huh. Guess I'm wrong. Since I didn't know better, I'll got out to
the garage & remove the valve guides & seats that I've replaced.
You'd be surprised how many household appliances can be used for home
mechanicing. Pop that head in the oven at 400deg & put the guides/
seats on dry ice to get a simple sweat fit. A dishwasher with a
strong detergent does a wonderful job degreasing (tip: don't run iron
cylinder sleeves thu there).
Oh, I do rocket surgery as a hobby.
Anyone reasonably competent should be able to remove the head. Get a
few tools (or make your own) & you can remove the valves. Replacing
seats & guides is then something you can take to a local machine shop
to perform far cheaper than your motorcycle shop will be able to do.
Chances are very high that your motorcycle shop is farming out the
machining work at a very high mark-up, or they are just replacing the
entire head. My 650 head recently cracked & dropped a valve seat,
requiring a $600 replacement head.
> Found out how much a top end job costs on a Ducati 999, Luddite? ;-)
Luddite? Moi? <whimper>
-Jeff-
The Older Gentleman
> On Nov 19, 2:22 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Um, new valve guides is not really a home mechanic job.
>
> Huh. Guess I'm wrong. Since I didn't know better, I'll got out to
> the garage & remove the valve guides & seats that I've replaced.
OK, so you're the exception that proves the rule. Trust me, not many
home mechanics tackle this job.
>
> You'd be surprised how many household appliances can be used for home
> mechanicing. Pop that head in the oven at 400deg & put the guides/
> seats on dry ice to get a simple sweat fit. A dishwasher with a
> strong detergent does a wonderful job degreasing (tip: don't run iron
> cylinder sleeves thu there).
Heh. I got into trouble when I cleaned a Honda 400 Four sump in our
dishwasher. With the dishes still in it.
>
> Oh, I do rocket surgery as a hobby.
>
> Anyone reasonably competent should be able to remove the head. Get a
> few tools (or make your own) & you can remove the valves. Replacing
> seats & guides is then something you can take to a local machine shop
> to perform far cheaper than your motorcycle shop will be able to do.
> Chances are very high that your motorcycle shop is farming out the
> machining work at a very high mark-up, or they are just replacing the
> entire head. My 650 head recently cracked & dropped a valve seat,
> requiring a $600 replacement head.
>
> > Found out how much a top end job costs on a Ducati 999, Luddite? ;-)
>
> Luddite? Moi? <whimper>
>
Heh again. Believe me, though, what you've just described is beyond the
ability of (wild guess time) 90% of modern motorcyclists.
Mark Olson
Listen to this man. I especially like his advice about the dishwasher.
95% of the bike mechanics working at a franchised dealership wouldn't be
able to replace a valve guide to save their life. More than likely the
official Yamaha fix would be a replacement head. But anyone who knows
their stuff will probably take the head off themselves and bring it to
their local cylinder head rebuilder who does that kind of work all day
long and will do it right, quickly, and at a reasonable price.
The Older Gentleman
>
> Listen to this man. I especially like his advice about the dishwasher.
>
> 95% of the bike mechanics working at a franchised dealership wouldn't be
> able to replace a valve guide to save their life. More than likely the
> official Yamaha fix would be a replacement head. But anyone who knows
> their stuff will probably take the head off themselves and bring it to
> their local cylinder head rebuilder who does that kind of work all day
> long and will do it right, quickly, and at a reasonable price.
Yup. We've got one just round the corner. That is, round the corner from
my address that the Canuck says doesn't exist ;-)
http://www.autoinsider.co.uk/local/engine-rebuilding-and-reconditioning/
ai_46146.php
I've used them for small jobs before. Like inserting swingarm bushes
with a hydraulic press and then reaming them out to fit the pivot.
Simple stuff, but not work I can do myself.
HellSickle
Gentleman) wrote:
> HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 2:22 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> > Gentleman) wrote:
> > > HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> OK, so you're the exception that proves the rule. Trust me, not many
> home mechanics tackle this job.
Confession: I'm a mechanical engineer who's been wrenching on bikes
since I was 14 (10 years ago ;-)
> Heh. I got into trouble when I cleaned a Honda 400 Four sump in our
> dishwasher. With the dishes still in it.
The beauty of being in a temporary rental house. In my dream garage,
I'm going to install a beater dishwasher right next to the laundry
tub.
> Heh again. Believe me, though, what you've just described is beyond the
> ability of (wild guess time) 90% of modern motorcyclists.
Guilty as charged. While I've done valve guides myself, that's
something I prefer to take to the local shop (Acme Machine) who has
done head work on most of the 4-strokes I've owned for the last 25
years. When I had access to a machine shop, I did make my own tools
for banging out guides. For a spring compressor, I finally welded
good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp. Makes that job
an order of magnitude easier. If I could get my junk mini-lathe
running, I could make virtually any special tool I needed. A real
benefit when you are in the garage late at night with a ride the next
day.
-Jeff-
S'mee
> On Nov 22, 10:49 am, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
>
> Gentleman) wrote:
> > HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > On Nov 19, 2:22 pm, totallydeadmail...@yahoo.co.uk (The Older
> > > Gentleman) wrote:
> > > > HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > OK, so you're the exception that proves the rule. Trust me, not many
> > home mechanics tackle this job.
>
> Confession: I'm a mechanical engineer who's been wrenching on bikes
> since I was 14 (10 years ago ;-)
>
> > Heh. I got into trouble when I cleaned a Honda 400 Four sump in our
> > dishwasher. With the dishes still in it.
>
> The beauty of being in a temporary rental house. In my dream garage,
> I'm going to install a beater dishwasher right next to the laundry
> tub.
>
Then I'm one up on you. It's MY kitchen...she only has a say in what
goes on when it's something she specializes in like choclate.
> > Heh again. Believe me, though, what you've just described is beyond the
> > ability of (wild guess time) 90% of modern motorcyclists.
>
> Guilty as charged. While I've done valve guides myself, that's
> something I prefer to take to the local shop (Acme Machine) who has
> done head work on most of the 4-strokes I've owned for the last 25
> years. When I had access to a machine shop, I did make my own tools
> for banging out guides. For a spring compressor, I finally welded
> good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp. Makes that job
> an order of magnitude easier. If I could get my junk mini-lathe
> running, I could make virtually any special tool I needed. A real
> benefit when you are in the garage late at night with a ride the next
> day.
>
> -Jeff-
Don't have the lathe (junk or other wise) but I've always found a or
created a way to make tools I needed. Even it if ended up single
use...usually due to being destroied in the process of using. 8^)
The Older Gentleman
> Guilty as charged. While I've done valve guides myself, that's
> something I prefer to take to the local shop (Acme Machine) who has
> done head work on most of the 4-strokes I've owned for the last 25
> years. When I had access to a machine shop, I did make my own tools
> for banging out guides. For a spring compressor, I finally welded
> good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp. Makes that job
> an order of magnitude easier. If I could get my junk mini-lathe
> running, I could make virtually any special tool I needed. A real
> benefit when you are in the garage late at night with a ride the next
> day.
I *wish* I'd learned decent metalwork skills at school. Had the
opportunity, too.
sturd
> Confession: I'm a mechanical engineer who's been wrenching on bikes
> since I was 14 (10 years ago ;-)
>
Dude, something is wrong with your math. Base 36?
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
S'mee
Gentleman) wrote:
> HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Guilty as charged. While I've done valve guides myself, that's
> > something I prefer to take to the local shop (Acme Machine) who has
> > done head work on most of the 4-strokes I've owned for the last 25
> > years. When I had access to a machine shop, I did make my own tools
> > for banging out guides. For a spring compressor, I finally welded
> > good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp. Makes that job
> > an order of magnitude easier. If I could get my junk mini-lathe
> > running, I could make virtually any special tool I needed. A real
> > benefit when you are in the garage late at night with a ride the next
> > day.
>
> I *wish* I'd learned decent metalwork skills at school. Had the
> opportunity, too.
School taught me to stick weld, learned wire weld on the side and oxy/
actylene I learned ojt... brasing, silver solder etc.
HellSickle
Oxy-acet is most versatile. You might find some old threads here
about how it can't be used for welding :-/ I did just use the torch
to put some hardfacing braze on my worn aluminum shift pedal. I have
a stick welder for the heavier stuff. Sure like to get a MIG. I
decided a month before graduating from high school not to pursue a
career in welding.
My dad grew up helping with a service station, was a mechanic in the
army, then got his college degree in vocational ed, so I had a good
teacher.
-Jeff-
HellSickle
Um, no..... I'm 30-21. Got an issue with that?
S'mee
heh, never could keep my stick numbers straigh. 8^( Trick I found
(well it works for me) is to use the softest wire I can find for Oxy-
acet. Oddly enough really limp coat hanger works best. Must be the low
carbon. <shrug>
> My dad grew up helping with a service station, was a mechanic in the
> army, then got his college degree in vocational ed, so I had a good
> teacher.
Lucky you!
sturd
> Um, no..... I'm 30-21. Got an issue with that?
No.
Rode 4-5 hours today and I'm already sore. It's always
taken 24-36 hours to get really sore and now it takes
3-4 to get really sore. This aging process is not my
favorite thing,
Beats the alternative I guess.
S'mee
> HellSickle asks:
>
> > Um, no..... I'm 30-21. Got an issue with that?
>
> No.
>
> Rode 4-5 hours today and I'm already sore. It's always
> taken 24-36 hours to get really sore and now it takes
> 3-4 to get really sore. This aging process is not my
> favorite thing,
Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
hurting...I guess that makes my ass an
insensitive ass.
> Beats the alternative I guess.
Indeed it do. I can't ride in cany cage more than 50 miles without
being practically incapable of unable to walk at more than a shuffle.
> Go fast. Take chances.
YSLINMSL I'll take my time and enjoy the 'ride'
sturd
> Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
> even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
> hurting.
I don't sit down much. But then I also forgot this is
crossposted to wreckmotorcycles and r.m.d
The Real Bev
> (The Older Gentleman) wrote:
>> HellSickle <jdee...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Um, new valve guides is not really a home mechanic job.
>
> Huh. Guess I'm wrong. Since I didn't know better, I'll got out to
> the garage & remove the valve guides & seats that I've replaced.
> You'd be surprised how many household appliances can be used for home
> mechanicing. Pop that head in the oven at 400deg & put the guides/
> seats on dry ice to get a simple sweat fit. A dishwasher with a
> strong detergent does a wonderful job degreasing (tip: don't run iron
> cylinder sleeves thu there).
When I worked for Magellan they sometimes ran suspect boards through the
dishwasher as a stress test.
>> Found out how much a top end job costs on a Ducati 999, Luddite? ;-)
A former boss sold his Aston Martin when he found out how much a tune-up would
cost.
> Luddite? Moi? <whimper>
Jamais!
--
Cheers, Bev
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"My life outside of USENET is so full of love and kindness that I have
to come here to find the venom and bile that I crave." --R. Damiani
S'mee
> S'mee misunderstood:
>
> > Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
> > even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
> > hurting.
>
> I don't sit down much. But then I also forgot this is
> crossposted to wreckmotorcycles and r.m.d
Your point being? You are taking for granted I didn't ride dirt...I
did. I was/am the worst dirt rider to EVER get on a bike. Give me dirt/
gravel back roads in disrepair I'm fine at all speeds. I set/sat for
most if not everything except deep mud and packed snow. Still ride
that way on a GL1000 and the wifes ninjette.
For that matter chairs can be pure hell for me...I just suck it up.
You get by with a pelvis that was displaced with out fracture...I'd
have been better of in the long run if I'd broken it.
But I get you. I just don't buy into people saying "It hurts to much
to..." Pain? Don't talk to me about pain, been living with bursitis
(injuries) since before I was 30.
--
Keith
I'm tired of doctors saying "you just had to be special, didn't you?
The Real Bev
> On Nov 22, 8:05 pm, sturd <mikesturdevant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> S'mee misunderstood:
>>
>> > Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
>> > even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
>> > hurting.
>>
>> I don't sit down much. But then I also forgot this is
>> crossposted to wreckmotorcycles and r.m.d
>
> Your point being? You are taking for granted I didn't ride dirt...I
> did. I was/am the worst dirt rider to EVER get on a bike. Give me dirt/
> gravel back roads in disrepair I'm fine at all speeds. I set/sat for
> most if not everything except deep mud and packed snow. Still ride
> that way on a GL1000 and the wifes ninjette.
>
> For that matter chairs can be pure hell for me...I just suck it up.
> You get by with a pelvis that was displaced with out fracture...I'd
> have been better of in the long run if I'd broken it.
I've got some floating crud and some ripped bits in one of my hips joints. I
can ski and bicycle without pain, but getting on the bicycle and walking and
standing up after sitting hurt. I think I've going to get it repaired after
ski season. The surgeon is apparently The World Expert in this particular
surgery. I hate the idea of cutting into my flesh (what if it gets WORSE?) but
if I could trust Mexican liposuction I ought to be fine with this guy, right?
Movie here: http://www.youtube.com/user/cguanche#p/a/u/6/tOzgcUvh7EQ
> But I get you. I just don't buy into people saying "It hurts to much
> to..." Pain? Don't talk to me about pain, been living with bursitis
> (injuries) since before I was 30.
> --
> Keith
> I'm tired of doctors saying "you just had to be special, didn't you?
Me too. I'm apparently resistant to pain medication, although demerol seems to
have worked at one time. My aerobic system doesn't seem to work properly
either. Some of us were just intended for different planets, I think.
--
Cheers, Bev
*********************************************************
Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are.
sturd
> On Nov 22, 8:05 pm, sturd <mikesturdevant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > S'mee misunderstood:
>
> > > Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
> > > even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
> > > hurting.
>
> > I don't sit down much. But then I also forgot this is
> > crossposted to wreckmotorcycles and r.m.d
>
> Your point being? You are taking for granted I didn't ride dirt..
Then you might understand that my seat and butt are fine.
Other spots get sore from riding. In my case yesterday,
hip flexors and biceps.
But somehow you're stuck on the seat. Ha!
I am Tosk
@gmail.com says...
Man, I have that stuff in both hips from falls about 15 years ago. I am
cool when standing or even riding, but as soon as I sit down, the pain
is almost unbearable. Fortunately however it only takes a bit of pain
med to deaden it enough to sleep. I am very careful not to overdo them
as I want them to continue to work. I still can cut one Tylenol three in
half and get the relief I need, or at least enough to sleep. Problem is
that with the heart issue I can not lay right down to sleep. I have to
start in a sitting position and slowly slide myself down over a period
of about a half hour to forty five minutes or so...
Dean H
> On Nov 22, 4:28 pm, "S'mee" <stevenkei...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
pub:
> > > > Guilty as charged. While I've done valve guides myself, that's
> > > > something I prefer to take to the local shop (Acme Machine) who has
> > > > done head work on most of the 4-strokes I've owned for the last 25
> > > > years. When I had access to a machine shop, I did make my own tools
> > > > for banging out guides. For a spring compressor, I finally welded
> > > > good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp. Makes that job
> > > > an order of magnitude easier. If I could get my junk mini-lathe
> > > > running, I could make virtually any special tool I needed. A real
> > > > benefit when you are in the garage late at night with a ride the next
> > > > day.
>
> > > I *wish* I'd learned decent metalwork skills at school. Had the
> > > opportunity, too.
>
> > School taught me to stick weld, learned wire weld on the side and oxy/
> > actylene I learned ojt... brasing, silver solder etc.
>
> Oxy-acet is most versatile. You might find some old threads here
> about how it can't be used for welding :-/ I did just use the torch
> to put some hardfacing braze on my worn aluminum shift pedal. I have
> a stick welder for the heavier stuff. Sure like to get a MIG. I
> decided a month before graduating from high school not to pursue a
> career in welding.
>
> My dad grew up helping with a service station, was a mechanic in the
> army, then got his college degree in vocational ed, so I had a good
> teacher.
>
> -Jeff--
I'll throw in this here, where it is really of no use to the original
poster, and cross posted to a whole other realm...
The other day I listened to Dean Kamen expound on the likelihood that
a basketball star will save the world. There's irony that Kamen is
known for the Segway, since it was really an unimportant spinoff from
a revolutionary medical device:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1RhmvxcpfI
His other big innovations are medical devices also <snip history>.
Anyway, long ago he recognized our misplaced heroes and tried to
create a team sport of problem solving - which turns out to be a
robotics competition where each team starts with the same basic kit
(new each year) and a new challenge each year. To make it attractive
like the sports stars we celebrate, he'd need world-class leaders in
industry to sponsor and mentor teams. This has worked out well for
both the youngsters and the professionals who all walk away smarter
and inspired.
Supply and demand. Kamen makes the great point that we bend over
backwards to load the supply side of our educational system (with
testing, better schools, computers in the classroom, standards, better
teachers, this program, that program, etc...). But we do what to
create the demand in the students?
It's not education, it's our culture.
I am not the world-class industry leader that Kamen seeks, probably.
But I know there are some technically skilled innovators who read
here. Consider having you or one of your crew mentoring a FIRST team.
Just an idea...
-Dean
Education is not filling a pail, it is lighting a fire. -W.B. Yates
john
some mucky mucks of various
"nation labs", & a few others who
usually have a "different focus"
I'll work a bit of magic and see if I can
divert some attention to usfirst.
john
I predict future happiness for Americans
if they can prevent the government from
wasting the labors of the people under
the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
"Dean H" <dfh
S'mee
> S'mee wrote:
> > On Nov 22, 8:05 pm, sturd <mikesturdevant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> S'mee misunderstood:
>
> >> > Really? I'd look into a new seat then. I'm a measly fourty tree and
> >> > even a Ninjette seat for 1,300+ in 24hr straight doesn't leave me
> >> > hurting.
>
> >> I don't sit down much. But then I also forgot this is
> >> crossposted to wreckmotorcycles and r.m.d
>
> > Your point being? You are taking for granted I didn't ride dirt...I
> > did. I was/am the worst dirt rider to EVER get on a bike. Give me dirt/
> > gravel back roads in disrepair I'm fine at all speeds. I set/sat for
> > most if not everything except deep mud and packed snow. Still ride
> > that way on a GL1000 and the wifes ninjette.
>
> > For that matter chairs can be pure hell for me...I just suck it up.
> > You get by with a pelvis that was displaced with out fracture...I'd
> > have been better of in the long run if I'd broken it.
>
> I've got some floating crud and some ripped bits in one of my hips joints. I
> can ski and bicycle without pain, but getting on the bicycle and walking and
> standing up after sitting hurt. I think I've going to get it repaired after
> ski season. The surgeon is apparently The World Expert in this particular
> surgery. I hate the idea of cutting into my flesh (what if it gets WORSE?) but
> if I could trust Mexican liposuction I ought to be fine with this guy, right?
> Movie here:http://www.youtube.com/user/cguanche#p/a/u/6/tOzgcUvh7EQ
heh, at least you can get surgery. 8^)
> > But I get you. I just don't buy into people saying "It hurts to much
> > to..." Pain? Don't talk to me about pain, been living with bursitis
> > (injuries) since before I was 30.
> > --
> > Keith
> > I'm tired of doctors saying "you just had to be special, didn't you?
>
> Me too. I'm apparently resistant to pain medication, although demerol seems to
> have worked at one time. My aerobic system doesn't seem to work properly
> either. Some of us were just intended for different planets, I think.
Yep what you said. Though I avoid the opiates and sythetics on
principal. Short term use sure...like a week or less. It really sucks
when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
Captain.
--
Keith
expcet the other road user to do the stupdest thing possible at the
worst possible moment at the last instant.
S'mee
Not stuck...choice and I've learned to adapt. Now IF I were crazy
enough to ride off road again (pending clutch, cables and fabricating
new exhaust on a DR370) I'll find out. Don't wish me luck, wish me
sense. 8^)
--
Keith
almost did a back flip with a KLR250 once...once. ca. 1980 Klr250.
The Real Bev
Hey, bite me, I went without insurance for 11 years and so far my Medicare
premiums have exceeded my medical expenses by A LOT. In fact, most of my
medical bucks in the last 1.5 years have been spent in Mexico; if the
docs/dentists had haggled with me to pay them in cash what I paid in Mexico we
would all have been ahead of the game.
OTOH, I'm still a bit doubtful about orthosurgery. The only orthosurgeon who
actually helped the brother of a friend told him to consider surgery only as a
last resort, which definitely causes me to ponder. I'd also like to get my
nose reamed out so I could actually use it for breathing, but again there's a
certain amount of worry.
>> > But I get you. I just don't buy into people saying "It hurts to much
>> > to..." Pain? Don't talk to me about pain, been living with bursitis
>> > (injuries) since before I was 30.
>> >
>> > I'm tired of doctors saying "you just had to be special, didn't you?
>>
>> Me too. I'm apparently resistant to pain medication, although demerol seems to
>> have worked at one time. My aerobic system doesn't seem to work properly
>> either. Some of us were just intended for different planets, I think.
>
> Yep what you said. Though I avoid the opiates and sythetics on
> principal. Short term use sure...like a week or less.
I envy you. I was taking 8 Aleve/day with no discernable effect. Same with
ibuprofen, acetominophen, aspirin, etc. I take them on the theory that a
placebo works better than nothing, which is probably true.
> It really sucks
> when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
> this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
Doesn't your insurance cover hysterectomies?
> expcet the other road user to do the stupdest thing possible at the
> worst possible moment at the last instant.
Indeed. And always remember that you're invisible.
--
Cheers, Bev
------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you were trying to be offensive, you would have succeeded if I
hadn't realized you have no idea what you are talking about."
-- FernandoP
KW
"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:heflrr$4st$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Did this twice. First one didn't work at all, second was performed to remove
the scar tissue created the first time around and still no relief. Doc
wanted to try a third, but I cut him off at this point, hell I'd already
bought him a new Dodge Viper for track days (yep, even let me sit in it
after telling me the story)
A few days after each surgery, when he removed the packing, my ability to
breath freely and deeply was AMAZING......for all of about 30 seconds
.....until the swelling and scar tissue closed it back off.
KW
The Real Bev
> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> OTOH, I'm still a bit doubtful about orthosurgery. The only orthosurgeon
>> who actually helped the brother of a friend told him to consider surgery
>> only as a last resort, which definitely causes me to ponder.
>
>>I'd also like to get my nose reamed out so I could actually use it for
>>breathing, but again there's a certain amount of worry.
>
> Did this twice. First one didn't work at all, second was performed to remove
> the scar tissue created the first time around and still no relief. Doc
> wanted to try a third, but I cut him off at this point, hell I'd already
> bought him a new Dodge Viper
My daughter's friend, the painful dentist who ended up lying to us and doing
work that had to be corrected elsewhere, had a Viper. Until then I had good
feelings about Dodge.
> for track days (yep, even let me sit in it
> after telling me the story)
>
> A few days after each surgery, when he removed the packing, my ability to
> breath freely and deeply was AMAZING......for all of about 30 seconds
> .....until the swelling and scar tissue closed it back off.
Did he conceivably remove the packing too soon? How long ago was this? I've
heard the process likened to pulling your brain out through your nostrils in
the same way that childbirth is like shitting a bowling ball. True?
I think we have to be selective about the doctors we ask for referrals to
specialists. Some have recommended their golf buddies or the woman they met at
the mixer the previous week. The orthodoc who recommended the labrum-repair
specialist is an old guy that I trust, and the LRS is part of a big orthogroup
that caters to celebrieties and sports figures. Still...
--
Cheers, Bev
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"I can't stand this proliferation of paperwork. It's useless to
fight the forms. You've got to kill the people producing them."
-- Vladimir Kabaidze
KW
"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hefpkp$r6a$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> KW wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> OTOH, I'm still a bit doubtful about orthosurgery. The only
>>> orthosurgeon who actually helped the brother of a friend told him to
>>> consider surgery only as a last resort, which definitely causes me to
>>> ponder.
>>
>>>I'd also like to get my nose reamed out so I could actually use it for
>>>breathing, but again there's a certain amount of worry.
>>
>> Did this twice. First one didn't work at all, second was performed to
>> remove the scar tissue created the first time around and still no relief.
>> Doc wanted to try a third, but I cut him off at this point, hell I'd
>> already bought him a new Dodge Viper
>
> My daughter's friend, the painful dentist who ended up lying to us and
> doing work that had to be corrected elsewhere, had a Viper. Until then I
> had good feelings about Dodge.
>
>> for track days (yep, even let me sit in it after telling me the story)
>>
>> A few days after each surgery, when he removed the packing, my ability to
>> breath freely and deeply was AMAZING......for all of about 30 seconds
>> .....until the swelling and scar tissue closed it back off.
>
> Did he conceivably remove the packing too soon? How long ago was this?
> I've heard the process likened to pulling your brain out through your
> nostrils in the same way that childbirth is like shitting a bowling ball.
> True?
Ummmm, yeah....pretty much...with one minor addition. Picture, if you will,
connected on one end of said brain (being pulled through your nostrils) and
on the other at your big toes, running willy nilly through your body are
like a bajillion 20' long feathers being slowly pulled the full length of
your insides as the packing is removed. Very hard to explain feeling but
that is as close as I can come. It tickled so bad that it hurt.
The Real Bev
> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Did he conceivably remove the packing too soon? How long ago was this?
>> I've heard the process likened to pulling your brain out through your
>> nostrils in the same way that childbirth is like shitting a bowling ball.
>> True?
>
> Ummmm, yeah....pretty much...with one minor addition. Picture, if you will,
> connected on one end of said brain (being pulled through your nostrils) and
> on the other at your big toes, running willy nilly through your body are
> like a bajillion 20' long feathers being slowly pulled the full length of
> your insides as the packing is removed. Very hard to explain feeling but
> that is as close as I can come. It tickled so bad that it hurt.
Nasty and very creepy; there might be people who would pay extra for this,
though. How long ago was this? Maybe they have improved methods now...
--
Cheers, Bev
O_________________________________________________O
"John Wayne toilet paper -- It's rough, it's tough,
and it don't take no crap from nobody."
Outback Jon
> I've heard the process likened to pulling your brain out through your
> nostrils in the same way that childbirth is like shitting a bowling
> ball.
I don't know, but I do know that I don't want to date the woman who is
qualified to make that comparison.
--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE
outba...@g.no.sp.am.mail.com
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 32
2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157
KW
"The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hefsmk$dd0$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> KW wrote:
>
>> "The Real Bev" <bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Did he conceivably remove the packing too soon? How long ago was this?
>>> I've heard the process likened to pulling your brain out through your
>>> nostrils in the same way that childbirth is like shitting a bowling
>>> ball. True?
>>
>> Ummmm, yeah....pretty much...with one minor addition. Picture, if you
>> will, connected on one end of said brain (being pulled through your
>> nostrils) and on the other at your big toes, running willy nilly through
>> your body are like a bajillion 20' long feathers being slowly pulled the
>> full length of your insides as the packing is removed. Very hard to
>> explain feeling but that is as close as I can come. It tickled so bad
>> that it hurt.
>
> Nasty and very creepy; there might be people who would pay extra for
> this, though. How long ago was this? Maybe they have improved methods
> now...
17 years and I have heard that there are alternatives to the packing process
nowadays.
I am Tosk
@gmail.com says...
I would like to know more about that floating stuff on the hip. I bet
that is what's wrong with me, didn't know there was a operation for
that. And whoever posted about it, you are going to work on it in
Mexico.. We east coasters don't really talk about that much..
RMR, sitting is a bitch..
S'mee
SNIP
> Hey, bite me, I went without insurance for 11 years and so far my Medicare
> premiums have exceeded my medical expenses by A LOT. In fact, most of my
> medical bucks in the last 1.5 years have been spent in Mexico; if the
> docs/dentists had haggled with me to pay them in cash what I paid in Mexico we
> would all have been ahead of the game.
Mostly full for me. The rest is covered ONLY based on prior work
injuries...20 years of servitude. I PAID for all mine with something
better than 'cash'. Through the wife I get sorta full with a small co-
pay. My current care provider is a NP who is in my professional
opinion incompetant.(doesn't even know how to do a proper and full ROM/
Function check of a shoulder)
At least you got your stuff fixed...like I said. There is no surgical
fix available for myself. I'd have been better off actually fracturing
the pelvis or doing a pastrana and having a double illiac
dislocation.
S'mee
SNIP
> > It really sucks
> > when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
> > this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
>
> Doesn't your insurance cover hysterectomies?
Har-dee-fucking harhar. That joke stopped being funny the same day I
went to physical therapy...you cunt.
> > expcet the other road user to do the stupdest thing possible at the
> > worst possible moment at the last instant.
>
> Indeed. And always remember that you're invisible.
Nope, not invisible. They just refuse to see YOU! That's been proven
in the last 5 years by some head shrinkers...me I just work on their
lizard brain to make them leave me the fuck alone and in their lane.
8^)
--
Keith
the other, other white meat...
PrairieRider
>
> > > It really sucks
> > > when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
> > > this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
>
> > Doesn't your insurance cover hysterectomies?
>
> Har-dee-fucking harhar. That joke stopped being funny the same day I
> went to physical therapy...you cunt.
Keith - I recently joined this board and enjoy the camaraderie of the
long timers here and the lack of mean attacks. I'm not sure why you
think you are entitled to level the derogatory statement made above,
but several of us, myself included, live with chronic pain. There's
no doubt that it sucks, but complaining about it and getting into a
pissing match where you seems to imply that you're the worst off,
doesn't serve any meaningful end. If you can't learn to laugh about
it and accept your lot in life, the least you could do is not inflict
your righteous and poor attitude on the members of this forum.
I am Tosk
6f3bde...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, psbe...@yahoo.com says...
Well said. Many of us have trouble sleeping and living due to chronic
pain. My daughter lives in pain after only one year of racing, and she
is only 15... This is our sport, pain and injury is just as sure as oil
changes and blown clutches...
The Mouse says, "It's not the pain, it's how you deal with it".
http://rowdymouseracing.com/media/RMRteamrowdymouse_ncb1.jpg
HardWorkingDog
<d93f5a46-11b8-4861...@g31g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>,
PrairieRider <psbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
PR
WARNING!!!
You got sucked into a cross-posted whirlpool that will drag you down
into a stinky smelly sewer that is what remains of the worst part of
usenet otherwise known as "reeky", or rec.motorcycles. (NOT
rec.motorcycles.dirt)
Not cross-dressing, but cross-posting :)
Not sure what newsreader you're using, but somewhere in the headers
you'll see the newsgroup(s) that message came from, and what
newsgroup(s) your reply is going to. Note the plural; usenet allows
people to post to multiple newsgroups, and if you just hit "reply" it
will send your reply back out to the same list of newsgroups.
A bit like being able to post the same message to numerous threads on
advrider simultaneously.
This thread was originally posted to several newsgroups, and trying to
have a normal online conversation with the denizens of reeky is
impossible; don't feed the troll, in other words.
Cheers,
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
The Older Gentleman
> e camaraderie of the
> long timers here and the lack of mean attacks. I'm not sure why you
> think you are entitled to level the derogatory statement made above,
> but several of us, myself included, live with chronic pain.
Wer do, too. It's called KrustyUS.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
BrianNZ
>
> I would like to know more about that floating stuff on the hip. I bet
> that is what's wrong with me, didn't know there was a operation for
> that. And whoever posted about it, you are going to work on it in
> Mexico.. We east coasters don't really talk about that much..
>
> RMR, sitting is a bitch..
As your hip deteriorates, the uneven surface can wear a groove in your
pelvis. This can cause small pieces of bone to come off and foul the
joint....think of valve grinding paste. I had a hip replaced at 30 after
a bike prang shattered my femur and the head of the hip died. Instant
pain relief!! I had a hip revision last year, so it handled 16 years of
bike riding and hunting before it got a bit loose.
turby
>
> ... For a spring compressor, I finally welded
> good fingers on to a large HF welding vice-grip/clamp.
Didn't that hurt?
Dean H
Have you spoken to your Yamaha rep about that?
BrianNZ
:) It lasted longer, in harsher conditions, than expected so I didn't
pursue a warranty claim.
I never thought of shopping around looking at different 'brands'. I just
went with what they said. maybe next time? :)
HellSickle
> In article
> You got sucked into a cross-posted whirlpool that will drag you down
> into a stinky smelly sewer that is what remains of the worst part of
> usenet otherwise known as "reeky", or rec.motorcycles. (NOT
> rec.motorcycles.dirt)
Thanks Charles. Having recently switched to Google for groups
viewing, I hadn't noticed the multiple group thing. I'm going to pay
closer attention.
That explains an awful lot. I haven't visitied rec.motorcycles in
ages. On advrider, that entire group would be relegated to "exploding
heads". It looks like it is still populated by a handful of "LOOK AT
ME" poseurs. The day RMD split from RM was about the time it began
the descent into the sludge. Good riddance. RMD is a great
community.
-Jeff-
HardWorkingDog
<d42eca50-bf9a-4161...@37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
HellSickle <jde...@comcast.net> wrote:
I was impressed with your response--you managed to hold your ground
and keep the backstabbers at bay in one swell foop; nice job. Guess
that's just all in a day's work for a rocket surgeon.
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
The Real Bev
> bashl...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> S'mee wrote:
>>
>> I envy you. I was taking 8 Aleve/day with no discernable effect. Same with
>> ibuprofen, acetominophen, aspirin, etc. I take them on the theory that a
>> placebo works better than nothing, which is probably true.
>>
>> > It really sucks
>> > when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
>> > this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
>>
>> Doesn't your insurance cover hysterectomies?
>>
>> > expcet the other road user to do the stupdest thing possible at the
>> > worst possible moment at the last instant.
>>
>> Indeed. And always remember that you're invisible.
>
> I would like to know more about that floating stuff on the hip. I bet
> that is what's wrong with me, didn't know there was a operation for
> that. And whoever posted about it, you are going to work on it in
> Mexico.. We east coasters don't really talk about that much..
No, Guanche is in Van Nuys, California, USA. About 20 miles away.
I'm happy with the dental work we had in Algodones, although our friend has had
to make more trips than he expected for his full set of upper implants. He
spends time playing blackjack at the Indian casino, which he enjoys, so it's
not all that bad. I'd hate it, but I'm not him.
I went to my local orthoguy, who took inconclusive x-rays and sent me for an
MRI. The MRI indicated possible torn labrum or simple osteoarthritis. Since
Guanche is the labrum-repair expert, Local Guy sent me to him. Guanche didn't
even look at the MRI, but took his own x-rays. They showed two (maybe three)
floating bits of cartilege which move around (these looked like the flash
reflections off dust spots in photographs) and cause the pain. The pain indeed
moves around, and I can push in various places to make it go away.
Watch the movie. It looks hopelessly crude, but apparently works. He has a
number of movies there. I suspect that he will open it up, look around, and
fix anything that doesn't look right.
Sometimes that's all you can do. A friend landed from a jump funny and spent
over a year with serious pain. X-ray, MRI, even a psychiatrist in case it was
mental. Nothing. Ultimately a guy opened up the knee, removed a knot of blood
vessels that was pushing on a nerve, and she was all well in a few days -- and
this was maybe 15 years ago.
>> >> Movie here:<http://www.youtube.com/user/cguanche#p/a/u/6/tOzgcUvh7EQ>
> RMR, sitting is a bitch..
I don't particularly trust the medical profession, but they gotta be doing
something right every once in a while. I hate the idea of being limited by pain.
And I can now pronounce acetabulum and even point to it on a drawing!
--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Linux -- the ultimate freebie!
The Real Bev
> I am Tosk wrote:
>>
>> I would like to know more about that floating stuff on the hip. I bet
>> that is what's wrong with me, didn't know there was a operation for
>> that. And whoever posted about it, you are going to work on it in
>> Mexico.. We east coasters don't really talk about that much..
>>
>> RMR, sitting is a bitch..
>
> As your hip deteriorates, the uneven surface can wear a groove in your
> pelvis. This can cause small pieces of bone to come off and foul the
> joint....think of valve grinding paste. I had a hip replaced at 30 after
> a bike prang shattered my femur and the head of the hip died.
The original OrthoGuy was worried about necrosis, and so was I. Good news,
fortunately. That's probably harder to fix than bits of floating crud.
> Instant
> pain relief!! I had a hip revision last year, so it handled 16 years of
> bike riding and hunting before it got a bit loose.
Until this I had not really worried about damaging myself. I've done lots of
falling, with a dislocated clavicle (the front end, not the side end) the only
permanent damage -- the broken ribs healed by themselves and the tweaked knee
was fixed with ultrasound, which is almost like magic for the stuff it works for.
I just wish I'd paid attention to my big toe joint when it first started
hurting; by the time I thought "Hey, I've had this problem for an AWFUL long
time"[1] it was bone on bone and nothing to be done about it. Hint: don't
kick big rocks even if you ARE wearing boots.
[1] Maybe 5 years; some of us are slow learners, especially since our feet
hurt most of the time we're wearing ladies' shoes anyway.
The Real Bev
> On Nov 23, 9:02 pm, The Real Bev <bashley...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> SNIP
>> > It really sucks
>> > when the physical therapist tells you "You know, normally I only see
>> > this kind of injury coming out of the Obstetrics ward" >8^| gee thanks
>>
>> Doesn't your insurance cover hysterectomies?
>
> Har-dee-fucking harhar. That joke stopped being funny the same day I
> went to physical therapy...you cunt.
Sorry, I didn't mean to insult your manhood. LOTS of really macho guys have
uterine or ovarian or fallopian injuries.
>> > expcet the other road user to do the stupdest thing possible at the
>> > worst possible moment at the last instant.
>>
>> Indeed. And always remember that you're invisible.
>
> Nope, not invisible. They just refuse to see YOU!
OK, functionally invisible.
> That's been proven
> in the last 5 years by some head shrinkers...me I just work on their
> lizard brain to make them leave me the fuck alone and in their lane.
> 8^)
You have to figure out some way of looking like a danger to them.
Mike W.
<psbe...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> a company ought to stand by their product
There are a bunch of wrinkles to this...
First, the purchase creates a contract between seller and buyer and part of
that contract is the warranty that includes limits both accept. Under that
thinking, this is a failure that falls under that. Seems simple. Just
because something has had the term "design flaw" applied to it by people
who may or may not have the credentials/data to apply such a label doesn't
seem to alter the agreement. The company could argue, with some merit, that
things die and just because some particular pathology is over-represented
on the list of reasons that thing dies, their legal responsibility doesn't
rise beyond the "we're sorry" level if it takes place after the warranty is
over.
The legal standard is one thing... when "ought to" is invoked, you also
have the opportunity to consider the moral standard... what kind of company
the company wants to be. Taking on an expense of that magnitude so far out
of warranty isn't an automatic for even the most ethical customer-centric
company out there, particularly in times where they are struggling to make
enough to retain employees and not ignore their responsibility to their
share-holders. It's a long way out of warranty and there are business
points that seem to make it reasonable for them to take this position.
Regarding how a company sets policy, sometimes that company has to face the
reality that in every pool of customers are some of the most stupid,
predatory, selfish and unprincipled POS humans to walk the earth (not
saying that about the poster) and their existence mandates setting limits
to all customers, such as the poster. It's just another POV and I'm not
saying that is the case, but if I made motorcycles, I'd have a massive
anti-ass-rape program in place behind the curtain because I know that some
motorcyclists have unreasonable expectations... and that program would
probably have limits that affect them all.
Where I see "ethical" and "customer-centric" entering the business picture
is getting to the bottom of what your dominant lethal pathologies are (in
or out of warranty) and engineering them out of the design.
This job is a bit of a PITA but it's doable without using a mechanic. Good
luck to the OP.
Mike
--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P (training)
99 KZ1000P (rider)
00 Beta Rev-3