What brand of regular oil for yz250f?
Seeker
make heads or tails out of ... comparing to the synthetic brands at
Wally-world. I've been using the expensive Motul oil from the dealer ...
Is there anything else I can use w/out wrecking my engine? I would like to
use a synthetic... What code is safe?
Thanks
Seeker
Jim Hall
Mobil 1. 15-40. (red top)
Lighter viscosities have "energy conserving" friction modifiers that
[rumor has it] may damage your clutch.
Jim Hall
520 EXC and others
turning Money into Noise...
WoodsRider978
"Seeker" <NoSpam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pODWa.369$ug.336@lakeread01...
> I looked through the manual and there are all sorts of specification I
can't
> make heads or tails out of ... comparing to the synthetic brands at
> Wally-world. I've been using the expensive Motul oil from the dealer ...
Last year I had a crank bearing failure in my KTM. After rebuilding the
engine I went riding at a local ORV park. At some point the oil drain plug
(that was inadvertantly left loose) fell out and most of the oil in the
bottom end obviously became dust control on the trail. Due to some other
issues I know exactly when the plug & oil came out (although I didn't at the
time). I rode a 15 mile loop at race pace and parked the bike at the
hauler, then finding the missing drain plug.
Nothing was hurt. I put my spare drain plug in, added some more Motul
E-Tech 100 and continued to ride.
Now I'm not saying that Motul is the only oil that would have done that, but
personally I'm not willing to risk it by changing oils at this point.
Besides, I almost feel like I owe them that much... As expensive as pure
synthetic oils are, engines and gearboxes are even more costly.
> Is there anything else I can use w/out wrecking my engine? I would like to
> use a synthetic... What code is safe?
Get your manual out and see what the specs were at that time. If you don't
have the manual, ask your dealer for that info. The oils usually list
supercisions that apply so that you'll know what is current to the specs you
should be using.
Now, FWIW, they teach us at these schools and siminars we have to attend
that motorcycle specific oils have additive packages that are designed to
work in an environment where shear, heat variances, and the fact that your
lubricating bearings in the same stuff your clutch is wearing in, that
automotive oils don't have.
Personally, I don't have a clue. I've never really took the time to
research it. But it makes me feel better to use the m/c specific oils, and
now after the incident I mentioned above, I only use Motul.
Bruce McCrary
Deep in the Woods of NC
Cannondale E440R
MX Tuner
<jdh...@nospammolaplateng.co> spewed forth:
>>I looked through the manual and there are all sorts of specification I can't
>>make heads or tails out of ... comparing to the synthetic brands at
>>Wally-world. I've been using the expensive Motul oil from the dealer ...
>>Is there anything else I can use w/out wrecking my engine? I would like to
>>use a synthetic... What code is safe?
>Mobil 1. 15-40. (red top)
Good choice but it is 15w50. There is no Mobil 1 15w40.
Honda is very specific on their oils for my CRF 450. Mobil 1 15w50
fits the bill perfectly for the engine side and the transmission side.
If the motorcycle manufacturers themselves thought a motorcycle
spoecific oil was necessary, they'd make *that* the requirement. They
list specs that automotive oils meet or exceed.
I just can't see paying extra for a picture of a motorcycle on the
bottle. I have more than enough pictures of motorcycles distributed
throughout the house and garage.
MX Tuner
scrape at mindspring dot com
wrote:
>Good choice but it is 15w50. There is no Mobil 1 15w40.
>
>Honda is very specific on their oils for my CRF 450. Mobil 1 15w50
>fits the bill perfectly for the engine side and the transmission side.
>
>If the motorcycle manufacturers themselves thought a motorcycle
>spoecific oil was necessary, they'd make *that* the requirement. They
>list specs that automotive oils meet or exceed.
>
>I just can't see paying extra for a picture of a motorcycle on the
>bottle. I have more than enough pictures of motorcycles distributed
>throughout the house and garage.
My manual lists the recommended oil as 5W-50 synth. I've been told by
my local (not really local) 'Berg dealer that synth isn't really
necessary and he recommends/uses Bel-Ray. I realize I'm paying extra
for the picture of the motorcycle on the bottle and don't really mind
paying $5 for an oil change, but what would you recommend as a good
substitute? I'm not necessarily brand loyal, but it does seem to
shift a good bit better with the Bel-Ray than some of the others.
WoodsRider978
news:3f2c2f58....@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> If the motorcycle manufacturers themselves thought a motorcycle
> spoecific oil was necessary, they'd make *that* the requirement. They
> list specs that automotive oils meet or exceed.
> I just can't see paying extra for a picture of a motorcycle on the
> bottle. I have more than enough pictures of motorcycles distributed
> throughout the house and garage.
> MX Tuner
From the Motul web site;
*Oil for bikes/ Oil for cars. What is the difference ?*
Most of 4 stroke bike gearboxes use engine oil as a lube. To reduce wear and
increase gearbox life, we include gear additives into bike 4 stroke engine
oils. And the oil must not perturb clutch efficiency.
For bike oils, the JASO (Japanese manufacturer association) is very
concerned by the clutch sliding problem so they issued some requirements and
standards.
Motul 5100 and 3000 oils for 4 stroke engine bikes are JASO MA approved. To
complete that, Motul performed the JASO T904 tests on 300V's to be sure that
300V's work properly without any clutch problem.
On the other hand, for cars, there is no gearbox or clutch problem therefore
we can use for example friction modifier additives to reduce friction into
the engine. This will provide power output improvement.
For bikes we strongly recommend to use bike oils and for cars, we strongly
recommend to use car oils.
*What is the difference between 4T engine oils for cars and 4T oils for
motorcycles?*
The main difference between the two vehicles is that the majority of
four-stroke motorcycle gearboxes are lubricated by the engine oil. In order
to reduce pinion wear and increase the life of the gearbox, MOTUL
incorporates 'Extreme Pressure' additives to motorcycle 4T oils.
From the Bel Ray web site;
*Why should I pay $10.00 to $11.00 for a bottle of Bel-Ray EXS when I can
buy an automotive synthetic for half the price?*
Ever heard the saying you get what you pay for. The obvious answer is that
your auto oil does one thing - lubricate a water-cooled, low rpm and
catalytic converted engine. Your motorcycle oil must lubricate a
water-cooled or air-cooled, high revving, high performance engine and
withstand the viscous shredding effects of the transmission gears too and ,
while doing all of this, must ensure that your wet clutch doesn't slip, grab
or lock up. Did I mention that auto oils don't have the same anti-wear
properties like zinc, for example, because it clogs the catalytic converter?
Save your money today and buy your oil at K-Mart because you'll need it
tomorrow to spend on parts at your favorite motorcycle dealer.
*My owner's manual recommends the stock factory motor oil or an equivalent
API SH rated motor oil.*
Bel-Ray's Motorcycle Motor Oils EXL, EXP and EXS are API SG or SH rated and
will give you the protection and performance needed for a motorcycle. API
ratings are automotive oil ratings and so far there are no motorcycle
specific oil ratings, so don't put too much faith in the API ratings because
the criteria was developed for fuel efficient, low emissions automobiles not
high performance motorcycles. The OEMs quote the API rating to make certain
that you use a certain quality of oil. Bel-Ray manufactures lubricants for
motorcycles and all the unique parts and performance of motorcycles. Our oil
is not automotive oil put in a motorcycle bottle. It has been developed and
tested to be the absolute best for your motorcycle. Also, API ratings are
not necessarily in an ascending order of quality: SJ is not better than SH,
SH is not better than SG, etc. Do not use API SJ Energy Conserving formula
motor oil in any motorcycle. It is formulated for low emission standards and
is missing key anti-wear ingredients and contains friction modifiers which
have been shown to cause clutch slippage in wet-clutch motorcycles.
From the Golden Spectro (Spectro Oils) web site;
*ARE AUTOMOTIVE OILS DIFFERENT FROM MOTORCYCLE-SPECIFIC OILS?*
Yes, there is a difference between automobile engines and motorcycle engine
requirements. Motorcycles, particularly Japanese designed models, use their
engine oils in the transmissions and clutch systems. These applications
place unique stress on motorcycle lubricants. The maximum engine output per
liter for motorcycles is 1.5 to 1.8 times that of automobile engines.
Similarly, the revolutions at maximum output are 1.3 to 2 times that of
automobiles. Further, motorcycle engines are small and light weight. This
results in a small thermal capacity in motorcycle engines which causes
engine oils to reach temperatures as high as 320° F. The above differences
logically lead to the point that a motorcycle-specific engine lubricant can
be formulated to address the unique requirements of the motorcycle engine.
The major modifications would be in using a more shear stable viscosity
index improver (VI) which provides viscosity retention when run through the
motorcycle transmission gears. Automobile oils using less shear stable VI
components which will fall out of grade or suffer viscosity loss rapidly in
motorcycle applications.
Further, due to the high heat and the RPMs motorcycles encounter, ZDDP and
phosphorous are needed to prevent cam wear and oil oxidation. Lastly, care
must be taken in the choice of friction modifiers in motorcycle oils to
prevent clutch slippage. Current auto oils of API SJ quality contain a large
amount of friction modifiers for increased fuel economy as well as limits on
zinc and phosphorous content thus limiting their use as motorcycle
lubricants. They are fine for auto engine use but inappropriate for use in
motorcycle engines.
The Japanese manufacturers address these topics in SAE paper number 961217
entitled, "Study on 4-Stroke Engine Oils For Motorcycles: Engine
Characteristics and New Specification Oils" dated May, 1996; available from
the SAE, 400 Commonwealth Drive, Warrendale, PA 15096-0007. Telephone: (412)
776-4841; Fax: (412) 776-5760.
*SHOULD I USE SPECIAL ADDITIVES IN MY OIL?*
If you purchase a premium motorcycle lubricant the use of other fortifiers
is not necessary. Everything your motorcycle engine needs is already in your
premium quality motorcycle engine oil. Many of the additives available today
contain friction modifiers such as molybdenum or Teflon (PTFE) which can
adversely affect clutch operation in your motorcycle.
*There is a new API rating on automotive oils called SJ which are not used
in Spectro products. Why is this?*
Because the API (American Petroleum Institute) quality assurance system is
driven by the automobile manufacturers. When API had SG as its highest
quality level, it was good for both motorcycles and automobiles. However,
when the API went to SH quality levels, changes occurred. Lubricant
manufacturers added friction modifiers to increase fuel efficiency and
decreased the allowed levels of zinc and phosphorous in these oils. These
were concessions to the automobile
manufacturers and were a step backward as far as lubricant performance in
motorcycles and, in particular, Japanese models are concerned. Increased
levels of friction modifiers can detrimentally affect the clutch and starter
systems in some Japanese motorcycles. Decreased levels of zinc and
phosphorous are not advised for high RPM, high-output motorcycle engines
which run hotter and have small lubricant reservoirs compared to
automobiles. The latest API SJ rating further increased friction modifier
treat levels to improve automobile fuel efficiency. Zinc and phosphorous
were further limited, as well. All of these steps are in the opposite
direction of how a premium-motorcycle lubricant should be formulated.
Therefore, Spectro oils do not have the SJ rating on them for the reasons
stated above.
WoodsRider978
> news:3f2c2f58....@news.comcast.giganews.com...
>
> > If the motorcycle manufacturers themselves thought a motorcycle
> > spoecific oil was necessary, they'd make *that* the requirement. They
> > list specs that automotive oils meet or exceed.
>
> > I just can't see paying extra for a picture of a motorcycle on the
> > bottle. I have more than enough pictures of motorcycles distributed
> > throughout the house and garage.
>
> > MX Tuner
Here's a little more info:
From the Exxon/Mobil web site;
*Can I use Mobil 1 15W-50 in my bike, just like I use in my car? Mobil 1 is
Mobil 1, right? *
Mobil 1 for cars and Mobil 1 for motorcycles are markedly different. Every
oil is a balance of benefits. Mobil 1 Tri-SyntheticT Formula for cars has
been developed specifically to satisfy car manufacturers' needs for
increased fuel economy and low emissions.That's why new cars come with
friction-modified, low-phosphorus 5W-30 motor oil. The low viscosity and the
friction modifiers help fuel economy. The low phosphorus levels help protect
catalytic converters.
*So how is Mobil 1 for passenger cars different from Mobil 1 for
motorcycles?*
First, let's be clear about Mobil 1's overall benefits compared to those of
conventional motor oils, whether for passenger cars or motorcycles:
Superior long-term engine protection.
Superior high-temperature stability.
Excellent low-temperature starting.
Outstanding engine performance.
Low volatility/low oil consumption.
It's a little hard to generalize about the difference between Mobil 1
passenger-car motor oils and Mobil 1 motorcycle oils. That's because not all
viscosities of Mobil 1 passenger-car oils have the same levels of zinc and
phosphorus, and there are even greater differences among the three Mobil 1
motorcycle oils. In general, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have:
Different base stock systems.
Different additive packages.
Different formulations to meet very specific engine requirements.
*What are the overall advantages of Mobil 1 motorcycle oils?*
In addition to the overall benefits listed above - specifically,
high-temperature stability and low volatility/low oil consumption - Mobil 1
synthetic motorcycle oils also offer superior anti-corrosion performance
compared to conventional motor oil, which is important in many parts of the
country where bikes may sit in garages for several months of the year.
Compared to conventional oils, Mobil 1 motorcycle oils have superior wear
protection, engine cleanliness, high-temperature protection and lower oil
consumption performance.
Once you get past these general advantages, you have to deal with each
specific motorcycle oil one at a time to understand the benefits.
*Okay. Let's start with Mobil 1 MX4T. What does it offer that Mobil 1 for
cars doesn't?*
Mobil 1 MX4T is designed for sport bikes. Most of these bikes have
multi-cylinder/multi-valve engines and use a common sump, which means the
engine oil lubricates the engine, transmission and wet clutch. So unlike
Mobil 1 for cars, Mobil 1 MX4T has no friction modifiers, which could lead
to clutch slippage.
The motorcycle oil also has more phosphorus/zinc for enhanced wear
protection at high engine speeds and high loads. Remember, most bikes don't
have catalytic converters, so higher levels of phosphorus are not a problem.
In addition, Mobil 1 MX4T uses different dispersant/detergent technology for
better high-temperature performance and engine cleanliness. Mobil 1 MX4T is
also offered in a different viscosity grade than Mobil 1 for passenger cars.
*What about Mobil 1 V-Twin oil? How is that different from Mobil 1 for
passenger cars?*
Mobil 1 V-Twin oil is designed for air-cooled, large-displacement bikes.
Because of their design, these engines can generate very high localized oil
temperatures and high overall bulk-oil temperatures.
As you know, a typical air-cooled V-twin's rear cylinder gets a lot hotter
than the front cylinder - it's a matter of airflow. When it's hot out and
you're stuck in traffic, the oil temperature in your bike climbs rapidly.
Above about 250° F, conventional motor oil is going to break down. Mobil 1
V-Twin synthetic oil is good to above 300° F.
In addition, Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W-50 is a higher-viscosity grade than Mobil 1
15W-50 for passenger cars. And Mobil 1 V-Twin has no viscosity index
improvers, so the oil is very "shear stable." Simply put, Mobil 1 V-Twin
synthetic oil won't break down as readily as conventional oil.
Like Mobil 1 MX4T, Mobil 1 V-Twin has high levels of phosphorus/zinc and the
same high-temperature detergent technology for superior wear protection and
engine cleanliness, even at elevated oil temperatures.
With Mobil 1 V-Twin oil, you can go the full length of the manufacturer's
recommended oil change intervals with ease.
Chris Buckley
Chris Buckley
WoodsRider978 wrote:
More Hype!!!
WoodsRider978
"Chris Buckley" <cnbu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F2C500E...@earthlink.net...
> Hype!!!
No! Info!
I make no suggestions or claim to have any more info than what has been
presented to me over the years.
Do as you like, use what you want. I do. ;)
Bruce
WoodsRider978
"Chris Buckley" <cnbu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F2C503C...@earthlink.net...
> More Hype!!!
NO! More Info! *giggle*
Bruce
Chris Buckley
WoodsRider978 wrote:
>
> "Chris Buckley" <cnbu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3F2C503C...@earthlink.net...
>
> > More Hype!!!
>
> NO! More Info! *giggle*
>
> Bruce
I also receive *info* about pills that are guaranteed to make my dick 3
inches bigger, I'll bet that just like the oil companies, they're
*giggling*, all the way to the bank.
Chris
Seeker
I have an hour meter on my bike and I'm changing oil every 5hrs and oil and
filter every 10. I've been using the regular oil, but I want to switch to
synthetic because if it had the same effect it had on my 2 stroke the clutch
pull will be easier. On my 2 smoke I only had to change the oil every once
in a while so it wasn't to bad.. but these 4 strokes take a lot of love and
care... but I wouldn't go back to the 125 if you paid me...
Thanks,
Seeker
"Chris Buckley" <cnbu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3F2C6B04...@earthlink.net...
Eric B
Hahahaha, LMFAO!!! Holy crap, you dick! Now I've got to go get a paper
towel to wipe the beer off my keyboard!
(Hey, pssst, you wouldn't happend to have a couple extra of those pills
would you?)
Eric B.
--
2000 XR250, '74 Elsinore MR50 (original owner),
'99 CR80 (11yr old daughter), '96 RM80 (14yr old son), 2000 DS80 (visiting
kids).
visit www.nomadsmx.org. Remove "nospam" from reply-to
MXOldtimer
using it in all my bike plus my 426 & 250F which now has a big bore kit and no
problems. I change the oil a lot and I follow the cheaper oil changed often
method.
Doug
Pacific NorthWET/Oregon
http://hometown.aol.com/mxoldtimer/myhomepage/index.html
WoodsRider978
"Eric B" <ewb...@quik.com> wrote in message news:8IycnYs-
> > I also receive *info* about pills that are guaranteed to make my dick 3
> > inches bigger, I'll bet that just like the oil companies, they're
> > *giggling*, all the way to the bank.
> > Chris
> >
> Hahahaha, LMFAO!!! Holy crap, you dick! Now I've got to go get a paper
> towel to wipe the beer off my keyboard!
>
> (Hey, pssst, you wouldn't happend to have a couple extra of those pills
> would you?)
*ahem* Yeah really...
Bruce
Chris Buckley
Chris
MX Tuner
<bruce_...@yahoo.com> spewed forth:
>> More Hype!!!
>NO! More Info! *giggle*
>Bruce
Bruce,
Look closely at what Exxon/Mobil say here. Now you have to read
closely to see where thay say theyr motorcycle oil is superior to
*conventional oils*. There is a lot of double talk there. They also
compare their m/c specific oil to Mobil 1 5w30. That is an "energy
conserving" oil that many bike manufacturers don't recommend. Honda is
very specific in the CRF 450 manual on NOT using an energy conserving
oil. The only Mobil 1 that meets that requirement is 15w50.
In your other post, you quote Motul, Bel-Ray and Spectro. All
motorcycle specific oils. What do you *think* they're going to say-
that they are no better than automotive spec synthetics? Hardly.
Fact is, if there was a lubrication problem, the manufacturers would
come up with an oil and list that as the required oil. All
manufacturers have oil bottled under their name and sell it as their
brand. Not one lists their oil as a requirement. They say use Honda
HP4/Yamalube 4R/whatever OR a good quality oil that meets
SG/SH/SJ/whatever.
Hondas answer to clutch and transmission trash circulating in the oil
was to design two different areas (two drain plugs, two filler plugs)
to keep the oil separate, not spec an oil that few people would use
and some couldn't easily get.
Bruce, I just hate to see you fall for all the motorcycle oil hype
since you work at a dealer.
MX Tuner
MX Tuner
<NoSpam...@hotmail.com> spewed forth:
>I have an hour meter on my bike and I'm changing oil every 5hrs and oil and
>filter every 10.
I change the oil in my CRF every two hours. The filter gets changed
every 5th time.
>I've been using the regular oil, but I want to switch to
>synthetic because if it had the same effect it had on my 2 stroke the clutch
>pull will be easier.
If you want easier clutch pull, lube the cable and lever pivot points.
MX Tuner
Murray
wrote:
>On Sat, 2 Aug 2003 22:18:42 -0400, "Seeker"
><NoSpam...@hotmail.com> spewed forth:
>
>>I have an hour meter on my bike and I'm changing oil every 5hrs and oil and
>>filter every 10.
>
>I change the oil in my CRF every two hours. The filter gets changed
>every 5th time.
>
Damn! Sure glad i don't ride a brittle 4 stroke like yours. I would
have to stop on the trail and change my oil twice on a day's ride.
No wonder you guy's stay on the MX track, you don't dare get more
than an hour away from your truck.
MurMan
James
been doing with success for 20+ years does not immediately become
wrong just because it was stated to be so on the Internet." Non
motorcycle specific oil is fine.
James
00CR250
"WoodsRider978" <bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote...
> "Chris Buckley" <cnbu...@earthlink.net> wrote...
Jim Hall
>>Mobil 1. 15-40. (red top)
>
>Good choice but it is 15w50. There is no Mobil 1 15w40.
You professional mechanics just think you know everything.....
I'd have to put my glasses on to read the label. Since I'm not color
blind yet, I just look at the cap.
Bruce McCrary
"MX Tuner" <mxt...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> Look closely at what Exxon/Mobil say here. Now you have to read
> closely to see where thay say theyr motorcycle oil is superior to
> *conventional oils*. There is a lot of double talk there. They also
> compare their m/c specific oil to Mobil 1 5w30. That is an "energy
> conserving" oil that many bike manufacturers don't recommend. Honda is
> very specific in the CRF 450 manual on NOT using an energy conserving
> oil. The only Mobil 1 that meets that requirement is 15w50.
OK, so you're comfortable using a prodct from a company that is in some way
shape or form trying to dupe the buying public? And, I take it that the
bike specific oil doesn't meet the requirments set by Honda?
> In your other post, you quote Motul, Bel-Ray and Spectro. All
> motorcycle specific oils. What do you *think* they're going to say-
> that they are no better than automotive spec synthetics? Hardly.
Welllllll actually Motul makes a wide range of automotive specific oils, and
are HUGE in auto racing in Europe. I know that they are involved with WRC
and the Touring Car championships, and I believe F1 as well. Bel-Ray
actually started and continues to make most of it's profits from Industrial
lubricants. Spectro on the other hand was started by a motorcyclist and as
far as I know continues to be owned and 'run' by motorcyclists.
But my immediate question would be do you suppose that the product in the
bottles are the same, or are they different? Seems to me that if the
product is advertised as being different (additive packages and what not)
they would *have* to be different or they could be in danger of suits of
fraud and liable. Now, assume either way, that it's different or the same,
take your pick. Do you really believe that it would be cost effective to go
through all the trouble and expense it would take to package the product
differently, advertise it, ect? Couldn't they just as easily tell us that
this bottle of Brand X Snake Oil Lube meets every requirement of every
manufacture of every vehicle from your kids tricycle to the space shuttle?
It would sure be more cost effective.
> Fact is, if there was a lubrication problem, the manufacturers would
> come up with an oil and list that as the required oil. All
> manufacturers have oil bottled under their name and sell it as their
> brand. Not one lists their oil as a requirement. They say use Honda
> HP4/Yamalube 4R/whatever OR a good quality oil that meets
> SG/SH/SJ/whatever.
I'm told that if a manufacture does that, then by law they are required to
supply that oil to the consumer. The consumer has to be able to make a
choice between Brand X and Brand Y, otherwise the requirement falls on the
manufactuer to supply it.
> Hondas answer to clutch and transmission trash circulating in the oil
> was to design two different areas (two drain plugs, two filler plugs)
> to keep the oil separate, not spec an oil that few people would use
> and some couldn't easily get.
OK. I feel certain there were other issues as well, but that works too.
> Bruce, I just hate to see you fall for all the motorcycle oil hype
> since you work at a dealer.
Mark, you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about bikes, and I'm not
suggesting that anyone use anything other than what works for them and makes
them happy. And I'll not, absolutely not, get in a debate about which oil
is better than which. But, since you brought it up, I get harped on at the
shop constantly from the maufactuers service reps about using M/C specific
oils only in all the brands we carry. One rep in particular has said dozens
of times "I don't care what brand of oil it is, just use M/C specific oils!"
Same thing from the distributors, it is something that is harped on
continuously.
I get into a discussion on this subject *at least* three times a day and you
can understand that at this point I don't even know what to say beyond what
we have just discussed.
I use Motul E-Tech 100 in a 10-40 weight because I know it works...for me.
I've field tested it waaaaaay to severly and it passed with more than flying
colors. So at this point, thats where I'm at. You guys do what you gotta
do. I do.
But, just as a general question...
If the M/C specific oils were sitting on the shelf at Wal-Mart and priced
the same as what ever your currently using, would you use the M/C specific
stuff then?
How about if you could by it at a bike shop for the same or right at the
same price as Wally-World?
Just curious if this is a price point issue, a convience issue, or if you
folks feel that the manufactuers are duping you somehow.
> MX Tuner
Bruce
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Tude
I LOVE the oil debate, because everybody get's so heated and all the
opinions are so totally different that I have no idea what to believe.
I had an issue with getting my EC200 into neutral and it was shifting
a bit funny, and some guy on Smackover suggested MTX 80 weight, after
a couple oil changes it shifts much better and I can easily find
neutral, and sometimes even can start it in gear! We now use it in our
2 stroke gearboxes since I pick it up cheap enough at cycle gear,
which happens to be 4 blocks from my work, directly on the way home.
If I found something that was cheaper and worked as well or better I
would buy it, no matter what it was. Kevin knows nothing about 2
strokes so I just run what I have heard good reports from.
FYI, on the thumper front, a friend of ours has about 25 years of
experience building race bikes and kinda sorta knows what he is doing
(he built the 2000 national championship winning bike in his garage).
He also worked for Chevron in R&D for years, has a dyno in his shop,
and specializes in fuels and other crazy stuff, it's his life. Even an
old RMD regular who thinks he is God's gift to fuel and oil
experimentation has sent him stuff for testing. ANYWAY, he makes his
own blend, but what oil does he recommend for most thumpers off the
shelf? Believe it or not Delo 400. We ran it with great results in
both Kevin's Bergs and my old TTR, and also sunbcribed to the
"changing it more" philosophy. Kevin got the stuff almost free out of
the drum from work (we also use Delo 400 in all our cars) or you can
get it by the case at Costco.
Whatever works for you and what you feel comfortable with I
guess....The ONLY think the 'experts' tend to agree on is change it :)
Kali
Rudy Marcelletti, K8SWD
aware all those oil companies had so much hype on their sites!
Look in your manual: Any temperature appropriate weight oil that is
non-energy conserving, of an SH rating or better, should work well. For
some reason, oil specified for diesel engines (CD--Cummins Diesel) should
not be used if it also has the energy conserving label. The manual
indicates "Energy Conserving II" label. I have not seen the "II"
designation yet. I just don't use any EC oils in my bike.
Petroleum or synthetic--doesn't matter. Synthetic usually costs more, and
can last longer between changes, but we change to often to realize the
difference.
Clean cheap oil is better than dirty expensive oil. We dirt riders tend to
change our oil more frequently than most other bikers, however, I think we
also waste good oil. I change my oil on my 250F about every 200 to 250
miles or so. I have been using Citgo non EC rated 10w40 petroleum without
any problem. $1.79/qt. I recently got a 5 qt jug of Mobil 1 red cap 15w 50
oil on sale at Wal-Mart for about $17.00. This is a synthetic oil and I
will go about 300 miles or so on this.
My son changes his oil in his '03 YZ85 about 4 or 5 times to my single
change. He uses non-EC 10w30 dino oil most of the time. His only holds
500ml and mine holds 1500ml. You need to change more often if you have
less oil capacity. You don't need to change ever MX race, but likely should
after every HS race or hard weekend trial ride just to be on the safe side.
Change before every ride if you are sponsored!
This babble of all the different application-specific oils and molecules
getting torn or shreaded--is a crock--we change the oil before that occurs
anyway. There is a study on the web somewhere I read about a year ago and
the guy who did that study, couldn't get straight answers out of any oil
company. His study indicated that on the road bike he was using, he started
to notice viscosity breakdown occuring at about 600 to 800 miles. You don't
use the clutch as often on the road bike, and you don't powershift a road
bike much either. Our bikes have a lot more stress on the clutch and tranny
than a road bike, so I change a bit more often. Even the worst oil he
tested only lost about half of its viscosity at about the 3000 mile
point--when you should change your car's oil anyway. It is dealer hype
trying to sell you $6.00 to $12.00 a quart oil. Do you think the dealer
wants you to buy oil on sale at Wal-Mart?
To bad Wal-Mart doesn't sell tear-offs and tires!!!
--
Rudy Marcelletti, K8SWD
"Seeker" <NoSpam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pODWa.369$ug.336@lakeread01...
James
> >synthetic because if it had the same effect it had on my 2 stroke the clutch
> >pull will be easier.
>
> If you want easier clutch pull, lube the cable and lever pivot points.
Yeah. The oil should have absolutely nothing to do with the clutch
pull. Think about how it works...you're just pushing a rod against the
pressure plate, allowing the plates to separate. The plates can stick
together or whatever but the pressure plate will push away regardless
with the same force.
This also is why aftermarket clutch basket makers' claims of "creates
lighter, smoother clutch pull!" are bogus. The clutch may disengage
more smoothly with a new, non-grooved basket, but the pull at the
lever will be unaffected (that's not to say the perception of the pull
by the time it reaches your brain won't be, though, depending on how
susceptible you are to suggestive marketing).
You also can put in lighter springs, but this may allow your clutch to
slip under load. I have two CR125 springs in my CR250 with steel
clutch plates and get no slippage.
James
00CR250
Bruce McCrary
"Rudy Marcelletti, K8SWD" <ru...@net-link.net> wrote in message
news:vit7l9...@corp.supernews.com...
> This babble of all the different application-specific oils and molecules
> getting torn or shreaded--is a crock--
You're sure of that huh?
> we change the oil before that occurs anyway.
See, I've been told that it can happen almost immediately, drain intervals
have nothing to do with it.
> There is a study on the web somewhere...
Therefore it must be true... *EG* Sorry, just having some fun. :) :)
> It is dealer hype
> trying to sell you $6.00 to $12.00 a quart oil. Do you think the dealer
> wants you to buy oil on sale at Wal-Mart?
Lets clear something up right away. Do you think that we pay what Wal-Mart
does for the oil and that the differance is all profit? It's not. Believe
me. My profit margins hoover around the 35% or less mark on most parts and
accessories and then I have to figure in the 10% discount 'cause you bought
the bike from, or the 15% racer/club discount,etc. Chemicals and lubes are
*usually* lower than that, some as low as the high 20%'s margins. We are
actually paying more for the M/C specific oil at dealer cost than you can
buy the standard stuff at Wal-Mart for.
Also, I just got off the phone with my Mobil distributor. That's who I get
my Honda oil from. They will sell me all the 15W50 red cap I want. Not on
my Honda parts account of course, but still, they will sell it to me none
the less. My cost would be over $5 a quart, which means I'd have to ask
damn near $7 a quart for it. Oooooohhh we're gonna get rich doing this, I
can just tell!!!
Now, that being said, it doesn't matter to me where my customers buy their
oil. I mean, I want their business, and try my best to earn it everyday, but
if they can save a few bucks, well what am I supposed to say? Go for it.
> To bad Wal-Mart doesn't sell tear-offs and tires!!!
They are selling ATV tires now. Same brands I can get. They sell for about
the same thing I sell mine for, but I use tires as a loss leader item hoping
I can get customers in the door with cheap tire prices and then hope they'll
buy something else from me. But my margins are nill. I seem to remember
Sam's selling, or was test selling Michelin motorcycle tires for a bit. I
*heard* they gave it up because of a lack of volume and the fact that they
were tearing up too many wheels trying to mount them. I really don't have a
clue as I don't shop at Sam's very much, if any.
Tear offs? Well, hopefully not anytime soon, but hey, you never know.
Shoot, at this rate it might not be long before you can buy bikes and ATV's
from them too! Then maybe I can get a job at the door. "Hello, welcome to
Wal-Mart. Fox is on aisle 6, Thor on aisle 7. We have a special today on
Klotz two cycle oil, but you might as well get the WARREN brand, heck its
all the same stuff anyway..." *LOL*
Pel Kan
I second Castrol GTX & frequent oil changes for my yz250f. It's about
the 1/4 the cost of the castrol specific motor-oil which is also nice.
Seeker
I didn't realize what a heated topic this was. I also have found some new
respect every time I look at an oil can.....
After reading all the kind advice, and the cool stories, I'm almost sure I
made up my mind. ;^)
.... please don't bash me too badly but this is my reasoning and what I
think I'm going to try.
Since the manufactures don't actually have any real special requirements
listen in the service manual other than "non-energy conserving, SH rating or
better" will work. (I'm a little fuzzy on the SH rating). Common since
dictates that the metal parts in the bike (Piston/rings/crank/etc are the
same in an auto). The real difference is the wet clutch - which we don't
want to have the material that provides friction messed w/. It also seems
the method of changing oil frequently to remove any debris and the broken
down oil is a sound one. SOOOO I think I am going to go w/ a synthetic
Wally-world brand oil that meets the requirements. Since I can get the
regular synthetic at a much lower cost than the non synthetic motorcycle
specific oil, I will go w/ the Mobile 1 or the Castrol GTX (non-energy
conserving).
My next decision will be weather or not I should change careers ... and I
expect it to be a lot easier than deciding what oil to use in my bike. : )
Thanks everyone,
Seeker #53
'03 YZ250F
MX Tuner
>I LOVE the oil debate, because everybody get's so heated and all the
>opinions are so totally different that I have no idea what to believe.
Me too.
>I had an issue with getting my EC200 into neutral and it was shifting
>a bit funny, and some guy on Smackover suggested MTX 80 weight, after
>a couple oil changes it shifts much better and I can easily find
>neutral, and sometimes even can start it in gear! We now use it in our
>2 stroke gearboxes since I pick it up cheap enough at cycle gear,
>which happens to be 4 blocks from my work, directly on the way home.
>If I found something that was cheaper and worked as well or better I
>would buy it, no matter what it was.
Try some Type F automatic trnasmission fluid. Just be sure to keep it
changed frequently. It'll shift like "buttah".
MX Tuner
MX Tuner
<pa...@piedmont-honda.com> spewed forth:
>OK, so you're comfortable using a prodct from a company that is in some way
>shape or form trying to dupe the buying public?
Umm, .....what?
> And, I take it that the
>bike specific oil doesn't meet the requirments set by Honda?
No, the bike specific oil just isn't worth the extra money for the pic
of the motorcycle.
>> In your other post, you quote Motul, Bel-Ray and Spectro. All
>> motorcycle specific oils. What do you *think* they're going to say-
>> that they are no better than automotive spec synthetics? Hardly.
>
>Welllllll actually Motul makes a wide range of automotive specific oils, and
>are HUGE in auto racing in Europe. I know that they are involved with WRC
>and the Touring Car championships, and I believe F1 as well.
I don't care if the stuff is used in the space shuttle. We were
talking with the Motul rep and he wanted us to use his stuff in the
race bikes. I told him I'd be glad to try it but if it didn't work, we
wouldn't use it even if he gave it to us. We tried all the Motul
products. The only thing we ended up using was their brake fluid. We
couldn't get the bikes to shift with their two stroke gear oils, any
of them. Their chain lube sucks, too (imho).
>Bel-Ray
>actually started and continues to make most of it's profits from Industrial
>lubricants. Spectro on the other hand was started by a motorcyclist and as
>far as I know continues to be owned and 'run' by motorcyclists.
Doesn't matter to me what their background is. What does matter is how
the product performs, local availability and how much it costs.
>But my immediate question would be do you suppose that the product in the
>bottles are the same, or are they different?
I have no doubt there is *a* difference.
>Seems to me that if the
>product is advertised as being different (additive packages and what not)
>they would *have* to be different or they could be in danger of suits of
>fraud and liable.
I have no doubt it is different. Better? Worth the extra money? Now
that I don't know.
>Now, assume either way, that it's different or the same,
>take your pick. Do you really believe that it would be cost effective to go
>through all the trouble and expense it would take to package the product
>differently, advertise it, ect?
If they spend an additional 50 cents per bottle and make an additional
$1.00 per bottle, heck yeah it would be worth it to them.
>Couldn't they just as easily tell us that
>this bottle of Brand X Snake Oil Lube meets every requirement of every
>manufacture of every vehicle from your kids tricycle to the space shuttle?
>It would sure be more cost effective.
You're probably a lot closer to reality than you think.
>> Fact is, if there was a lubrication problem, the manufacturers would
>> come up with an oil and list that as the required oil. All
>> manufacturers have oil bottled under their name and sell it as their
>> brand. Not one lists their oil as a requirement. They say use Honda
>> HP4/Yamalube 4R/whatever OR a good quality oil that meets
>> SG/SH/SJ/whatever.
>I'm told that if a manufacture does that, then by law they are required to
>supply that oil to the consumer.
I was told they'd have to *make it available* to the consumer, not
*supply* it. I may be wrong on that point, though.
>> Hondas answer to clutch and transmission trash circulating in the oil
>> was to design two different areas (two drain plugs, two filler plugs)
>> to keep the oil separate, not spec an oil that few people would use
>> and some couldn't easily get.
>OK. I feel certain there were other issues as well, but that works too.
Please elaborate.
>> Bruce, I just hate to see you fall for all the motorcycle oil hype
>> since you work at a dealer.
>Mark, you have forgotten more than I'll ever know about bikes, and I'm not
>suggesting that anyone use anything other than what works for them and makes
>them happy. And I'll not, absolutely not, get in a debate about which oil
>is better than which.
I agree completely. I really hate falling for marketing hype. Engine
Ice is another big one.
>But, since you brought it up, I get harped on at the
>shop constantly from the maufactuers service reps about using M/C specific
>oils only in all the brands we carry. One rep in particular has said dozens
>of times "I don't care what brand of oil it is, just use M/C specific oils!"
>Same thing from the distributors, it is something that is harped on
>continuously.
Hell, yeah. They don't want anyone going to Wally-World to buy their
oil.
>I get into a discussion on this subject *at least* three times a day and you
>can understand that at this point I don't even know what to say beyond what
>we have just discussed.
I understand.
>I use Motul E-Tech 100 in a 10-40 weight because I know it works...for me.
>I've field tested it waaaaaay to severly and it passed with more than flying
>colors. So at this point, thats where I'm at.
What else have you tested? We've used the Mobil 1 15w50 auto oil in
all the desert bikes and local woods bikes (racing h/s and enduros and
the yearly 24 hour race in Alabama) for a number of years now. So far,
not one lubrication related failure.
>But, just as a general question...
>If the M/C specific oils were sitting on the shelf at Wal-Mart and priced
>the same as what ever your currently using, would you use the M/C specific
>stuff then?
I don't know. Depended how they worked. Motul products, no. Bel-Ray,
no. The others I'd have to try and see how the transmissions shifted.
>How about if you could by it at a bike shop for the same or right at the
>same price as Wally-World?
Same thing. I'd have to try them.
>Just curious if this is a price point issue, a convience issue, or if you
>folks feel that the manufactuers are duping you somehow.
Neither. Whatever works the best and at a reasonable price.
MX Tuner
IdaSpode
<NoSpam...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>My God!
>I didn't realize what a heated topic this was.
<snip oil routine, shutting can-o-worms for the moment>
>My next decision will be weather or not I should change careers ... and I
>expect it to be a lot easier than deciding what oil to use in my bike. : )
We are a full service newsgroup, we can (and will) advise you on most
all life matters: job, career, education, love life/marriage,
parenting, tatoos, rehab, finances, diet and personal hygiene. Don't
be too shy to ask...
>Thanks everyone,
>Seeker #53
David '03 KTM 200EXC
djones<at>LSidaho.com
http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd
WoodsRider978
does. Your gonna love this coming from me...
I just heard of a motor oil test done by one of the sport bike magazines,
Sport Rider maybe? It appears to have been a pretty extensive test
utilizing a dyno in addition to normal lab tests. Kinda reminds me of the
early days of DIRT BIKE when Hunk was at the helm. Anyway, I haven't read
it yet, but I promise you, I will have a copy tomorrow. It should make for
some interesting conversations when the reps come calling if nothing else...
I'm told that the tests did show that there is a difference in the additive
packages between the automotive and motorcycle oils. But that there was
little if any difference in the level of protection they provide. Basically
they get to the same place going different directions.
There were oils that increased horsepower figures on two different big inch
sport bikes, but it was only slight increases in overall hp figures.
The oil that tested best for protecting against thermal breakdown, also
tested at the top, or near the top in every other category listed was Mobil
1 15-50.
Now, before the I told you so's start, let me remind you that I was merely
reporting what the industry has been telling me for several years now, and I
said as such originally... But go ahead, I'm ready... ;)
Think of this though. If these tests are accurate and verifiable, which I
have no reason to believe otherwise, but if this is true it sure is going to
be interesting to see how the powersports industry and the petroleum
companies respond. Will it be disputed, or shoved under the rug? From where
I sit at my day job some big things just happened. If I sold my oil at cost
I'll still be more expensive than what I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy.
Plus, as strange as this might sound, based on the experiences I've read
some of you have had at shops, we really do try to take care of our
customers. How am I going to be able to stand there and ask what I have to
ask for it to break even, much less make any profit?
Ain't this a bitch... *sigh*
Like I said before, watching for the industry response is going to be
interesting...
--
Bruce McCrary
Deep in the Woods of NC
Cannondale E440R
WoodsRider978
"MX Tuner" <mxt...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:3f2f1eef....@news.comcast.giganews.com...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 11:57:33 -0400, "Bruce McCrary"
> <pa...@piedmont-honda.com> spewed forth:
>
> >OK, so you're comfortable using a prodct from a company that is in some
way
> >shape or form trying to dupe the buying public?
>
> Umm, .....what?
Failed attempt at humor. Never mind.
> We were talking with the Motul rep and he wanted us to use his stuff in
the
> race bikes. I told him I'd be glad to try it but if it didn't work, we
> wouldn't use it even if he gave it to us. We tried all the Motul
> products. The only thing we ended up using was their brake fluid. We
> couldn't get the bikes to shift with their two stroke gear oils, any
> of them. Their chain lube sucks, too (imho).
The break fluid is good. It was the only thing that wouldn't boil in my
KTM's rear brake. I've had good results with improved shifting with the
E-Tech, and as I said before, it was in my engine when I had the drain plug
fall out. Just good Karma at this point, you know? You're right, the chain
lube sucks.
> What else have you tested? We've used the Mobil 1 15w50 auto oil in
> all the desert bikes and local woods bikes (racing h/s and enduros and
> the yearly 24 hour race in Alabama) for a number of years now. So far,
> not one lubrication related failure.
Honestly, I'm sure there are very few oil related failures anyway. I've
never had one, or really known of a *real* oil related failure. The main
thing I've noticed is that most any sythethic oil *seems* to make shifting
better. I haven't used many, the last time I used Mobil 1 was in the XR600.
Like I said, no problems.
> >But, just as a general question...
And now a general statement... By now you've seen my other post, right?
Bruce
scrape at mindspring dot com
wrote:
>>My next decision will be weather or not I should change careers ... and I
>>expect it to be a lot easier than deciding what oil to use in my bike. : )
>
>We are a full service newsgroup, we can (and will) advise you on most
>all life matters: job, career, education, love life/marriage,
>parenting, tatoos, rehab, finances, diet and personal hygiene. Don't
>be too shy to ask...
>
Don't forget travel, cooking, legal matters, and the benefits of a
Roth IRA. Oops. You already said finances.
scrape at mindspring dot com
<bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> How am I going to be able to stand there and ask what I have to
>ask for it to break even, much less make any profit?
Simple. You sell service as well. The company I work for sells
computers, printers, etc. Anyone can go to Best Buy and buy the same
thing for a few bucks less. But Best Buy isn't going to answer their
phone calls when they can't install the thing or drop everything to
take care of thier problem at 4:30 on a Friday or other countless
examples of how good customer service is worth more than a few
cents/dollars.
If there was a dealer that offered me good service, I wouldn't
hesitate to spend all my money there. The nearest dealer that's worth
a shit is over an hour away and though I wouldn't make a special trip
for a couple of quarts of oil, I do manage to wait until I need more
than that before I go shopping. I'll mail order from him before I'd
drive 3 miles to the nearest shop.
You may lose a few, but you'll keep the good ones - the ones that keep
coming back and recommend you to others.
>Ain't this a bitch... *sigh*
Depends on how you deal with it. 8 years ago, I could double or
triple my money on every piece of computer hardware sold. Now I'm
lucky to get 10%, but business is better than ever.
>Like I said before, watching for the industry response is going to be
>interesting...
That, it will.
WoodsRider978
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:kccuivocqjop6m11k...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 4 Aug 2003 23:55:16 -0400, "WoodsRider978"
> <bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > How am I going to be able to stand there and ask what I have to
> >ask for it to break even, much less make any profit?
>
> Simple. You sell service as well. The company I work for sells
> computers, printers, etc. Anyone can go to Best Buy and buy the same
> thing for a few bucks less. But Best Buy isn't going to answer their
> phone calls when they can't install the thing or drop everything to
> take care of thier problem at 4:30 on a Friday or other countless
> examples of how good customer service is worth more than a few
> cents/dollars.
I've always contended that our customer base can buy parts anywhere, so what
we have to sell is service. So I definately understand your point, and have
to stand by it, and even though my statement does center around profit
margins (which is a concern) theres the credabilty issue as well. We've
been telling *in good faith* what has been told to us.
> If there was a dealer that offered me good service, I wouldn't
> hesitate to spend all my money there. The nearest dealer that's worth
> a shit is over an hour away and though I wouldn't make a special trip
> for a couple of quarts of oil, I do manage to wait until I need more
> than that before I go shopping. I'll mail order from him before I'd
> drive 3 miles to the nearest shop.
I have no doubt that what your saying is true, just like the guy that just
got the XR400 and his experiances. It just baffles me how any business can
have an attitude like that and stay in business. We are in an area that
though considered rural is loaded with powersports dealers/shops.
Franchised and independent. I'm constantly hearing the same sort of horor
story about most of them, but have no doubt that the same is said about us
behind our backs. You can't make everyone happy I suppose, but you can't
stop trying either.
> You may lose a few, but you'll keep the good ones - the ones that keep
> coming back and recommend you to others.
> >Ain't this a bitch... *sigh*
> Depends on how you deal with it. 8 years ago, I could double or
> triple my money on every piece of computer hardware sold. Now I'm
> lucky to get 10%, but business is better than ever.
I'm glad your business is up, even though margins are slim. Most of the
shops in our area are reeling anyway this year. The weather has worked
against us all year and the local economy hasn't got consumers in a toy
buying mood. The Pillowtex shut down's biggest impact (damn near 4,000
jobs) is not 20 miles south of us, and we certainly have regular customers
that are impacted by this. I can hope for increased traffic to make up for
lower margins, but it ain't worked out so far this year.
I use tires as a loss leader item already. The margin on our tires is
pittifully low, and our volume is better now than when I started, but it's
still what one would consider a profit center. I'm imagining oil to head in
that same direction. It never was real good anyway, more of a 'we have to
stock it because the customers expect it' type thing, even though we have
heard "I can buy this at Wal-Mart..." for a good while.
*snicker* I once had a guy that had just spent 16K plus on a Golwing and
another 3K in accessories come back to the parts counter and beat me up over
a $3 quart of oil, even though we had thrown in a free first service to
sweeten the deal. It's just human nature I suppose...
> >Like I said before, watching for the industry response is going to be
> >interesting...
> That, it will.
No doubt. This test and the magazine it is in supposedly just hit the
stands. I'm planning on going by the store and seeing if I can pick it up
on the way to work. Like I said, it'll be a conversation piece when the
reps come by anyway.
Tell you what though, just for conversations sake, I swear I see the
industry heading the auto dealership route. Honda is already pushing hard
for single line dealers and has a program called 'the Power Dealer' (I
believe is what they called it) program in which they design your building,
(and it ain't a steel building motorcycle shop, its a boutique) and you are
required to stock one of every model in every color offered. Huge
dealerships you know? There are several dealerships in our area that have
been bought buy car dealers and are slowing being turned in that direction.
Heck, even Rick Hendrick recently got in on the action and bought a shop in
the Charlotte area. It may be a good thing, but I'm just not sure. I don't
know of anyone that goes to the parts department of the local car dealer to
buy oil or tires for example, all that will do is make the price of the
parts that are unique to the dealership get more expensive, you know? Plus,
can you imagine going in to buy a new bike and having to deal with a
salesman and his sales manager as they do that "I'm working hard for you Mr
so & so. But I may need a little more just to sweeten the deal." type
thing? Oh lordy!
Bruce
scrape at mindspring dot com
<bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Simple. You sell service as well. The company I work for sells
>> computers, printers, etc. Anyone can go to Best Buy and buy the same
>> thing for a few bucks less. But Best Buy isn't going to answer their
>> phone calls when they can't install the thing or drop everything to
>> take care of thier problem at 4:30 on a Friday or other countless
>> examples of how good customer service is worth more than a few
>> cents/dollars.
>
>I've always contended that our customer base can buy parts anywhere, so what
>we have to sell is service. So I definately understand your point, and have
>to stand by it, and even though my statement does center around profit
>margins (which is a concern) theres the credabilty issue as well. We've
>been telling *in good faith* what has been told to us.
I'd appreciate being told that new evidence had been found that will
save me money. Promise a little and deliver a lot.
>I have no doubt that what your saying is true, just like the guy that just
>got the XR400 and his experiances. It just baffles me how any business can
>have an attitude like that and stay in business. We are in an area that
>though considered rural is loaded with powersports dealers/shops.
>Franchised and independent. I'm constantly hearing the same sort of horor
>story about most of them, but have no doubt that the same is said about us
>behind our backs. You can't make everyone happy I suppose, but you can't
>stop trying either.
Lots are content to make a fwe happy and not worry about the rest. Of
course in the last year or so, one of the Yamaha dealers has sold, a
Kawasaki dealership just sold, and I believe one of the Honda
delerships was reclaimed by Honda or some other convoluted
arrangement.
>> Depends on how you deal with it. 8 years ago, I could double or
>> triple my money on every piece of computer hardware sold. Now I'm
>> lucky to get 10%, but business is better than ever.
>
>I'm glad your business is up, even though margins are slim. Most of the
>shops in our area are reeling anyway this year. The weather has worked
>against us all year and the local economy hasn't got consumers in a toy
>buying mood. The Pillowtex shut down's biggest impact (damn near 4,000
>jobs) is not 20 miles south of us, and we certainly have regular customers
>that are impacted by this. I can hope for increased traffic to make up for
>lower margins, but it ain't worked out so far this year.
The hardware end of this business sucks. The service end it doing
fine and props up the hardware end. Hardware is a tool to get into
the service side anymore. That sucks about Pillowtex. That was
pretty sudden, wasn't it?
>I use tires as a loss leader item already. The margin on our tires is
>pittifully low, and our volume is better now than when I started, but it's
>still what one would consider a profit center. I'm imagining oil to head in
>that same direction. It never was real good anyway, more of a 'we have to
>stock it because the customers expect it' type thing, even though we have
>heard "I can buy this at Wal-Mart..." for a good while.
>
>*snicker* I once had a guy that had just spent 16K plus on a Golwing and
>another 3K in accessories come back to the parts counter and beat me up over
>a $3 quart of oil, even though we had thrown in a free first service to
>sweeten the deal. It's just human nature I suppose...
You should have thrown in another quart of oil and a free beer huggie
or something. I know 100 of that exact same customer.
>Tell you what though, just for conversations sake, I swear I see the
>industry heading the auto dealership route. Honda is already pushing hard
>for single line dealers and has a program called 'the Power Dealer' (I
>believe is what they called it) program in which they design your building,
>(and it ain't a steel building motorcycle shop, its a boutique) and you are
>required to stock one of every model in every color offered. Huge
>dealerships you know? There are several dealerships in our area that have
>been bought buy car dealers and are slowing being turned in that direction.
>Heck, even Rick Hendrick recently got in on the action and bought a shop in
>the Charlotte area. It may be a good thing, but I'm just not sure. I don't
>know of anyone that goes to the parts department of the local car dealer to
>buy oil or tires for example, all that will do is make the price of the
>parts that are unique to the dealership get more expensive, you know? Plus,
>can you imagine going in to buy a new bike and having to deal with a
>salesman and his sales manager as they do that "I'm working hard for you Mr
>so & so. But I may need a little more just to sweeten the deal." type
>thing? Oh lordy!
I wouldn't piss in Rick Hendricks' mouth if his teeth were on fire.
Jim Hall
>Talk about timing... I just hope I can get this posted before anyone else
>does. Your gonna love this coming from me...
- snip-
>
>Like I said before, watching for the industry response is going to be
>interesting...
Bruce.
The Oil Wars have been going on here at RMD for a long time. Links
you may be interested in:
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm
http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/mototech_june_1999.htm
I pulled these off the RMD homepage tech links section
http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd/
which isn't a bad resource for technical stuff.
I actually was looking for another article, but found these instead.
Do you sell a lot of K&N air filters...........?? <g>
Bruce McCrary
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindSPAMspring.com> wrote in message
news:sqdviv8ge6mhd4asb...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 08:02:35 -0400, "WoodsRider978"
> <bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Simple. You sell service as well. The company I work for sells
> >> computers, printers, etc. Anyone can go to Best Buy and buy the same
> >> thing for a few bucks less. But Best Buy isn't going to answer their
> >> phone calls when they can't install the thing or drop everything to
> >> take care of thier problem at 4:30 on a Friday or other countless
> >> examples of how good customer service is worth more than a few
> >> cents/dollars.
> >
> >I've always contended that our customer base can buy parts anywhere, so
what
> >we have to sell is service. So I definately understand your point, and
have
> >to stand by it, and even though my statement does center around profit
> >margins (which is a concern) theres the credabilty issue as well. We've
> >been telling *in good faith* what has been told to us.
>
> I'd appreciate being told that new evidence had been found that will
> save me money. Promise a little and deliver a lot.
Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
takes.
> >I have no doubt that what your saying is true, just like the guy that
just
> >got the XR400 and his experiances. It just baffles me how any business
can
> >have an attitude like that and stay in business. We are in an area that
> >though considered rural is loaded with powersports dealers/shops.
> >Franchised and independent. I'm constantly hearing the same sort of
horor
> >story about most of them, but have no doubt that the same is said about
us
> >behind our backs. You can't make everyone happy I suppose, but you can't
> >stop trying either.
>
> Lots are content to make a fwe happy and not worry about the rest. Of
> course in the last year or so, one of the Yamaha dealers has sold, a
> Kawasaki dealership just sold, and I believe one of the Honda
> delerships was reclaimed by Honda or some other convoluted
> arrangement.
I'd bet you anything that right now you could just about name your own deal
on any motorcycle shop in a three state area. I know of several heavy
hitters that are quietly (shhhhh) for sale, and some others that are on
their last leg financially.
> >> Depends on how you deal with it. 8 years ago, I could double or
> >> triple my money on every piece of computer hardware sold. Now I'm
> >> lucky to get 10%, but business is better than ever.
> >
> >I'm glad your business is up, even though margins are slim. Most of the
> >shops in our area are reeling anyway this year. The weather has worked
> >against us all year and the local economy hasn't got consumers in a toy
> >buying mood. The Pillowtex shut down's biggest impact (damn near 4,000
> >jobs) is not 20 miles south of us, and we certainly have regular
customers
> >that are impacted by this. I can hope for increased traffic to make up
for
> >lower margins, but it ain't worked out so far this year.
>
> The hardware end of this business sucks. The service end it doing
> fine and props up the hardware end. Hardware is a tool to get into
> the service side anymore. That sucks about Pillowtex. That was
> pretty sudden, wasn't it?
Not really...those of us in the area were keeping a weary eye on it for the
last couple of years. They re-organized a time or two and did some other
'last ditch' type things to keep it afloat, but they were struggling, like
the rest of the textile industry in this country.
> >I use tires as a loss leader item already. The margin on our tires is
> >pittifully low, and our volume is better now than when I started, but
it's
> >still what one would consider a profit center. I'm imagining oil to head
in
> >that same direction. It never was real good anyway, more of a 'we have
to
> >stock it because the customers expect it' type thing, even though we have
> >heard "I can buy this at Wal-Mart..." for a good while.
> >*snicker* I once had a guy that had just spent 16K plus on a Golwing and
> >another 3K in accessories come back to the parts counter and beat me up
over
> >a $3 quart of oil, even though we had thrown in a free first service to
> >sweeten the deal. It's just human nature I suppose...
> You should have thrown in another quart of oil and a free beer huggie
> or something. I know 100 of that exact same customer.
*grin* A shop tee-shirt and a membership to the HRCA did the trick. *LOL*
Bruce McCrary
"Jim Hall" <jdh...@nospammolaplateng.co> wrote in message
news:tngvivc5a2ofp08ei...@4ax.com...
>> The Oil Wars have been going on here at RMD for a long time. Links
> you may be interested in:
> http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm
> http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
> http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/mototech_june_1999.htm
> I pulled these off the RMD homepage tech links section
> http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd/
> which isn't a bad resource for technical stuff.
> I actually was looking for another article, but found these instead.
I've been around RMD before, back in the mid to late 90's. Took a hiatis
and thought I'd look around again, I've been in some of those oil wars.
Never again! *LOL*
> Do you sell a lot of K&N air filters...........?? <g>
To the street bike crowd, yeah. The sport bike guys and the cruiser guys
love 'em. I try to *suggest* other brands for off road use based on my
prior experiances with them, but hell, I'll sell 'em anything they want! *G*
Bruce
Dirt Crashr
>can you imagine going in to buy a new bike and having to deal with a
>salesman and his sales manager as they do that "I'm working hard for you Mr
>so & so. But I may need a little more just to sweeten the deal." type
>thing? Oh lordy!
>
>Bruce
What a nightmare, sounds like Honda-Ducati Peninsula already...
But I never go into dealerships to get anything, including bikes.
-keith
Charles Stembridge
<bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Jim Hall" <jdh...@nospammolaplateng.co> wrote in message
> news:tngvivc5a2ofp08ei...@4ax.com...
snip
> > Do you sell a lot of K&N air filters...........?? <g>
>
> To the street bike crowd, yeah. The sport bike guys and the cruiser guys
> love 'em. I try to *suggest* other brands for off road use based on my
> prior experiances with them, but hell, I'll sell 'em anything they want! *G*
I was in an Oceanside (I'd rather not talk about it right now)
Honda/Yamaha dealer, and they were proudly displaying a rack of Pro Honda
filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. Right next to it was a rack of No-Toil
filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. It was only too obvious that Honda has
relabeled the No-toil products. Exactly the same packaging, with different
labels. Even the same shrink-wrapped starter pack of all three products.
Is this something new? I guess if anything it made me feel a bit better
about using No-toil; the stuff works, but the packaging has always seemed
a little cheesy, making me wonder if I should really trust it. We're all a
little bit prey to the "branding" crap being beaten into our psyche's, no
matter how hard we try to resist it.
--
Charles
'99 YZF600R
'99 YZ250
Bruce McCrary
"Charles Stembridge" <chNO...@mindSPAMspring.com> wrote in message
news:chNOstem-050...@user-38ldsv6.dialup.mindspring.com...
> I was in an Oceanside (I'd rather not talk about it right now)
> Honda/Yamaha dealer, and they were proudly displaying a rack of Pro Honda
> filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. Right next to it was a rack of No-Toil
> filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. It was only too obvious that Honda has
> relabeled the No-toil products. Exactly the same packaging, with different
> labels. Even the same shrink-wrapped starter pack of all three products.
>
> Is this something new? I guess if anything it made me feel a bit better
> about using No-toil; the stuff works, but the packaging has always seemed
> a little cheesy, making me wonder if I should really trust it. We're all a
> little bit prey to the "branding" crap being beaten into our psyche's, no
> matter how hard we try to resist it.
Yeah, Honda just sent me a trail package and some info on it. It is new, it
is No-Toil.
No-Toil works very well and is environmentally responsible. I tried it here
some time back with less than stellar results for whatever reason. No
repeat customers anyway... But the product is first rate.
Bruce McCrary
> Do you sell a lot of K&N air filters...........?? <g>
*lightbulb slowly coming on over head*
Hey, you've been on the Cannondaler sight I bet... *g*
Jim Hall
>
>"Jim Hall" <jdh...@nospammolaplateng.co> wrote in message
>news:tngvivc5a2ofp08ei...@4ax.com...
>
>> Do you sell a lot of K&N air filters...........?? <g>
>
>*lightbulb slowly coming on over head*
>
>Hey, you've been on the Cannondaler sight I bet... *g*
>
Actually no. Just another long running thread on RMD regarding
filtering ability of K&Ns. Jeff Deeney has some personal experience,
I think. And a whole lot of links.
Just in case you are thinking about reconfiguring your operation to
sell only "RMD" approved products. And Forest Slippers, of course.
MX Tuner
>I just heard of a motor oil test done by one of the sport bike magazines,
>Sport Rider maybe? It appears to have been a pretty extensive test
>utilizing a dyno in addition to normal lab tests. Kinda reminds me of the
>early days of DIRT BIKE when Hunk was at the helm. Anyway, I haven't read
>it yet, but I promise you, I will have a copy tomorrow. It should make for
>some interesting conversations when the reps come calling if nothing else...
>The oil that tested best for protecting against thermal breakdown, also
>tested at the top, or near the top in every other category listed was Mobil
>1 15-50.
There have been tests done previously. Mobil 1 and Amsoil top the list
over all the motorcycle specific oils.
>Now, before the I told you so's start, let me remind you that I was merely
>reporting what the industry has been telling me for several years now, and I
>said as such originally... But go ahead, I'm ready... ;)
Sorry, I don't work that way.
>Think of this though. If these tests are accurate and verifiable, which I
>have no reason to believe otherwise, but if this is true it sure is going to
>be interesting to see how the powersports industry and the petroleum
>companies respond. Will it be disputed, or shoved under the rug?
They'll keep feeding you the same propaganda they have been for years.
The test won't change a thing except now *you* have been convinced.
>From where
>I sit at my day job some big things just happened. If I sold my oil at cost
>I'll still be more expensive than what I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy.
>Plus, as strange as this might sound, based on the experiences I've read
>some of you have had at shops, we really do try to take care of our
>customers. How am I going to be able to stand there and ask what I have to
>ask for it to break even, much less make any profit?
Don't try to discount stuff like Honda brand lubricants. Sell them for
suggested retail. They'll still sell to those who don't believe in
anything but oils with a picture of a motorcycle on the bottle. Even
if you wanted to, you wouldn't be able to persuade most of them
otherwise.
MX Tuner
Charles Stembridge
<bruce_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Charles Stembridge" <chNO...@mindSPAMspring.com> wrote in message
> news:chNOstem-050...@user-38ldsv6.dialup.mindspring.com...
>
> > I was in an Oceanside (I'd rather not talk about it right now)
> > Honda/Yamaha dealer, and they were proudly displaying a rack of Pro Honda
> > filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. Right next to it was a rack of No-Toil
> > filter oil/cleaner/rim grease. It was only too obvious that Honda has
> > relabeled the No-toil products. Exactly the same packaging, with different
> > labels. Even the same shrink-wrapped starter pack of all three products.
> >
> > Is this something new? I guess if anything it made me feel a bit better
> > about using No-toil; the stuff works, but the packaging has always seemed
> > a little cheesy, making me wonder if I should really trust it. We're all a
> > little bit prey to the "branding" crap being beaten into our psyche's, no
> > matter how hard we try to resist it.
>
> Yeah, Honda just sent me a trail package and some info on it. It is new, it
> is No-Toil.
>
> No-Toil works very well and is environmentally responsible. I tried it here
> some time back with less than stellar results for whatever reason. No
> repeat customers anyway... But the product is first rate.
I'll bet the Honda-toil sells like hotcakes, especially if they can tell
people that Ricky uses it, or Nicky, or even Mike Alessi.
scrape at mindspring dot com
<pa...@piedmont-honda.com> wrote:
>> I'd appreciate being told that new evidence had been found that will
>> save me money. Promise a little and deliver a lot.
>
>Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
>takes.
Service people the customer trusts with his stuff and trusts for the
truth works for me. Plastered on smiling faces don't do much.
>> >I have no doubt that what your saying is true, just like the guy that
>just
>> >got the XR400 and his experiances. It just baffles me how any business
>can
>> >have an attitude like that and stay in business. We are in an area that
>> >though considered rural is loaded with powersports dealers/shops.
>> >Franchised and independent. I'm constantly hearing the same sort of
>horor
>> >story about most of them, but have no doubt that the same is said about
>us
>> >behind our backs. You can't make everyone happy I suppose, but you can't
>> >stop trying either.
>>
>> Lots are content to make a fwe happy and not worry about the rest. Of
>> course in the last year or so, one of the Yamaha dealers has sold, a
>> Kawasaki dealership just sold, and I believe one of the Honda
>> delerships was reclaimed by Honda or some other convoluted
>> arrangement.
>
>I'd bet you anything that right now you could just about name your own deal
>on any motorcycle shop in a three state area. I know of several heavy
>hitters that are quietly (shhhhh) for sale, and some others that are on
>their last leg financially.
I wish I was in the market right now. Those morons at the Virginia
lottery keep picking the wrong numbers.
W.B.Lyttle
94 Husaberg FE350
02 Yamaha TT-R125L (youngun's)
BRC, ARRA, USA-ALL and like that
scrape at mindspring dot com
<jdh...@nospammolaplateng.co> wrote:
>The Oil Wars have been going on here at RMD for a long time. Links
>you may be interested in:
>
>http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm
>http://www.yft.org/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
>http://www.eric-gorr.com/techarticles/mototech_june_1999.htm
>
>I pulled these off the RMD homepage tech links section
>http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd/
>which isn't a bad resource for technical stuff.
On a somewhat related note, but for cars/trucks, here's a pretty
decent study on oil filters. Those of you that read alt.trucks.ford
and alt.trucks.chevy have likely seen it.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
scrape at mindspring dot com
wrote:
>Don't try to discount stuff like Honda brand lubricants. Sell them for
>suggested retail. They'll still sell to those who don't believe in
>anything but oils with a picture of a motorcycle on the bottle. Even
>if you wanted to, you wouldn't be able to persuade most of them
>otherwise.
Stopped at Advance Auto on the way home. They had the Castrol
semi-synth for $1.78 and the full synthetic for $3.78(?).
Any word on these relative to the new RMD darling Mobil-1?
WoodsRider978
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:v5l0jv48n007usr7p...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 11:43:16 -0400, "Bruce McCrary"
> <pa...@piedmont-honda.com> wrote:
> >Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
> >takes.
> Service people the customer trusts with his stuff and trusts for the
> truth works for me. Plastered on smiling faces don't do much.
Kind of a standard statement with me. I've got a guy working the parts
counter that I swear his face would crack if he smiled. You never in you
life saw such a miserable person in your life.
No. Wait. Theres ol' Wizzbang/Traveler to consider... Hmmmm.
Bruce
MXOldtimer
>> >Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
>> >takes.
>
>> Service people the customer trusts with his stuff and trusts for the
>> truth works for me. Plastered on smiling faces don't do much.
HOOTER! BIG HOOTER!
We need parts girls with BIG HOOTERS,,,,,,and shorty shorts. Yeah that's
it,,,,Parts girls with BIG HOOTERS & SHORTY SHORTS!
You can just put my CC# on file.
scrape at mindspring dot com
>> >Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
>> >takes.
>
>> Service people the customer trusts with his stuff and trusts for the
>> truth works for me. Plastered on smiling faces don't do much.
>
>Kind of a standard statement with me. I've got a guy working the parts
>counter that I swear his face would crack if he smiled. You never in you
>life saw such a miserable person in your life.
Has he considered if his life would be better if he was selling ladies
shoes at the mall?
MX Tuner
<scr...@mindspring.com> spewed forth:
>Stopped at Advance Auto on the way home. They had the Castrol
>semi-synth for $1.78 and the full synthetic for $3.78(?).
>Any word on these relative to the new RMD darling Mobil-1?
The Mobil 1 synthetic sells for $4.79 a quart around here at Wal-Mart.
I'll have to check Advance.
MX Tuner
scrape at mindspring dot com
>>Stopped at Advance Auto on the way home. They had the Castrol
>>semi-synth for $1.78 and the full synthetic for $3.78(?).
>
>>Any word on these relative to the new RMD darling Mobil-1?
>
>The Mobil 1 synthetic sells for $4.79 a quart around here at Wal-Mart.
>I'll have to check Advance.
That's about what it was at Advance. Is there a general consensus on
Castrol or should I just shut up and start trying Mobi-1 again?
scrape at mindspring dot com
>>
>>> >Service, service, service. Smiling faces, good attitudes, thats what it
>>> >takes.
>>
>>> Service people the customer trusts with his stuff and trusts for the
>>> truth works for me. Plastered on smiling faces don't do much.
>
>HOOTER! BIG HOOTER!
> We need parts girls with BIG HOOTERS,,,,,,and shorty shorts. Yeah that's
>it,,,,Parts girls with BIG HOOTERS & SHORTY SHORTS!
> You can just put my CC# on file.
You know, there's just no arguing with someone who's nailed it on the
head like that. And no, um, undergarments. And all the shelves are
really high. And free beer and roast beef sammiches. Or even
reasonably priced beer and roast beef sammiches. But no friggin
undergarments.
WoodsRider978
"MXOldtimer" <mxold...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030805215336...@mb-m22.aol.com...
> HOOTER! BIG HOOTER!
> We need parts girls with BIG HOOTERS,,,,,,and shorty shorts. Yeah that's
> it,,,,Parts girls with BIG HOOTERS & SHORTY SHORTS!
> You can just put my CC# on file.
Daaaaannnnggg... I like it! Hmmmm... *G*
Bruce
WoodsRider978
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ivn0jvoqbf8fnedhv...@4ax.com...
> >Kind of a standard statement with me. I've got a guy working the parts
> >counter that I swear his face would crack if he smiled. You never in you
> >life saw such a miserable person in your life.
> Has he considered if his life would be better if he was selling ladies
> shoes at the mall?
Oh man, gotta share this... I'm an ex independent owner operator trucker.
He's an ex-deputy sheriff. I've spent ENTIRELY too much time at the back of
my trailer, head down saying "yessir, your right sir, absolutely sir, I
promise I'll slow down..." Sometimes when I'm at my desk on the phone or
whatever, I'll hear this guy saying (in an authoritative and firm tone)
"Sir, I'm only trying to help you." and shivers run down my spine. It's
like the disco lights are flashing in my mirrors all over again!
Bruce
WoodsRider978
"scrape at mindspring dot com" <scr...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:4vo0jvghmoh1l5u8d...@4ax.com...
> >HOOTER! BIG HOOTER!
> > We need parts girls with BIG HOOTERS,,,,,,and shorty shorts. Yeah that's
> >it,,,,Parts girls with BIG HOOTERS & SHORTY SHORTS!
> > You can just put my CC# on file.
> You know, there's just no arguing with someone who's nailed it on the
> head like that. And no, um, undergarments. And all the shelves are
> really high. And free beer and roast beef sammiches. Or even
> reasonably priced beer and roast beef sammiches. But no friggin
> undergarments.
*scribble scribble scribble* NO undergarments... OK, got it.
How do you want your roast beef? *LOL*
Bruce
Dirt Crashr
>whatever, I'll hear this guy saying (in an authoritative and firm tone)
>"Sir, I'm only trying to help you." and shivers run down my spine. It's
>like the disco lights are flashing in my mirrors all over again!
Yikes!!!
>Bruce
-k
MX Tuner
<scr...@mindspring.com> spewed forth:
>>The Mobil 1 synthetic sells for $4.79 a quart around here at Wal-Mart.
>>I'll have to check Advance.
>That's about what it was at Advance. Is there a general consensus on
>Castrol or should I just shut up and start trying Mobi-1 again?
I haven't seen the Castrol tested but I'd imagine it is close to the
Mobil 1. Are the non-energy conserving weighs available?
MX Tuner
scrape at mindspring dot com
wrote:
>>>The Mobil 1 synthetic sells for $4.79 a quart around here at Wal-Mart.
>>>I'll have to check Advance.
>
>>That's about what it was at Advance. Is there a general consensus on
>>Castrol or should I just shut up and start trying Mobi-1 again?
>
>I haven't seen the Castrol tested but I'd imagine it is close to the
>Mobil 1. Are the non-energy conserving weighs available?
All the ones I picked up and looked at were non-energy conserving SL
rated oils.
Brian McGarry
news:3f317979....@news.comcast.giganews.com...
God I luv Tuna.....Sticking it out year after year on RMD, among all the
Lewzers to gleam a grain techno talk. He is Spode of the Year!
Hang in there Mark,
From your Number Fan
Brian McGarry
"Brian McGarry" wrote about MX Tuner:
>
> From your Number Fan
s/b Number 'One' Fan
MX Tuner
spewed forth:
>God I luv Tuna.....Sticking it out year after year on RMD, among all the
>Lewzers to gleam a grain techno talk. He is Spode of the Year!
>Hang in there Mark,
Thanks. With days like today at work, RMD is a nice vacation from
reality for a few minutes.
MX Tuner
Truespode
"MX Tuner" <mxt...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
> Thanks. With days like today at work, RMD is a nice vacation from
> reality for a few minutes.
>
> MX Tuner
Hey, Mark... you making the benefit race next weekend? Gomer and I are
planning on it. We'll probably come down Saturday and want to ride
somewhere. Do you think Diomondback will be open?
Hope to see you at the race.
Ivan
MX Tuner
<iv...@dotgoesafterTRUESPODEbutbeforethe.NET> spewed forth:
>Hey, Mark... you making the benefit race next weekend? Gomer and I are
>planning on it. We'll probably come down Saturday and want to ride
>somewhere. Do you think Diomondback will be open?
>Hope to see you at the race.
I should be at the race. I'm trying to get info about that weekend.
I'll e-mail you when I get it.
MX Tuner
Anssi Lehtinen
news:pODWa.369$ug.336@lakeread01:
> Is there anything else I can use w/out wrecking my engine? I would
> like to use a synthetic... What code is safe?
Sheesh, a lot of posts on the subject, again. I use Mobil Delvac 1300
Super 15W-40. It fills ALL the requirements for my bike and boy does it
come inexpensive when you get it by the drum for a fleet of lorries.
--
Anssi
YZ450F