FIRE!
Scott...@webtv.net
because it was supposed to be extremely hot. Good thing, because the
area I planned to camp and ride in is very near the 30,000 acre wildfire
west of Colorado Springs!
Here in Denver, the smoke from the fire decended on the city around 11
am, limiting visibility to less than one mile. The smell of wood smoke
was very strong, and over the course of the afternoon, the hood of my
truck was covered in ash. The Sun was a red smudge in a brownish sky.
Very strange scene.
Scottysix9
Ryan Burnett
this must be a big fire..
Ryan Burnett
#224 98' Cr250
Mx-Pilot
I guess I don't get out much, never seen that..
<Scott...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4311-3D0...@storefull-2113.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Scott...@webtv.net
eerie, otherworldly experience of wandering through a car lot, a sick
yellow light reflecting off the cars, dark sky overhead, and a hot wind
from the southwest, bringing ash and the smell of burning timber.
Normally, I love the smell of woodsmoke, the way it saturates your
clothes on a cool night is one of my favorite aspects of being in the
woods. It's shocking to walk outside of my suburban home east of
Denver,and find that the fire is near enough to make my clothes stink,
and to make me taste smoke in my throat.
The area the fire is destroying is a place I visit twenty or so times
a year. It is an area I am intimately familiar with, so if it sounds
like I am lamenting the loss of a friend, I am.
Scottysix9
vlj
<snip>
> The area the fire is destroying is a place I visit twenty or so times
> a year. <snip>
That's the wrong way to view things. Fire is nature's way of renewal and
regeneration and folks have been fed a line with complete with hook and
sinker with this "Smokey the Bear" crapola.
In the arid west where things just don't decompose like they do in the wet
northwest, you don't prevent forest fires, you only postpone them. Then,
when they do go, they are a doozey.
It is simply an inconvenience to you that it won't "look pretty" again in
your lifespan but your children's children will enjoy it. In the mean time,
the new growth will feed an order of magnitude more wildlife that it has
been in recent years ... hunters are going to love it.
Cheers,
VLJ
Ryan Burnett
>regeneration
ya, but nature didn't start these fires.. campers did
AzJose
I don't know if anyone else was out there in the Divide Trail system Sunday
June 9th. But I was there trying to haul ass back to the friends cabin I was
staying outside of Deckers for the weekend up from Arizona.
I will say this, it was simply a very devastating scene. Needless to say
that we were turned back 3 miles from our cabin. Leaving all my clothes and
laptop and tools there to be left to fate. I still don't know yet if they
are still there or are molten hunks of junk.
We had seen the fire from the cabin Saturday evening and had ventured out to
see how far it was. We passed the volunteer fire station about 830pm June
8th and not a soul was in site. As we progressed further down the road we
figured it was way off and really had no worries. So Sunday morning smoke
still looks kinda the same, we load up and trailer to a staging area and
head south from the West Creek area. Had some great riding and met some cool
people out and along the way. Must say that riding in the Divide Trails is a
true blast. After a lunch break we starting heading back based on a rumour
from another passing rider that the West Creek area was being evacuated. So
5 of us are trying to haul ass back to the trucks as fast as we can. We get
back and the sun is just kinda like a glowing red dot in the sky, very
creepy looking. So we head back thry West Creek to find TONS of Sheriff cars
and volunteer fire fighters swarming about. Where were these guys about
24hrs prior when the fire was reported?? So we were told that we could head
back to the cabin and get our stuff. We get there and they say no way. You
have to leave. All my stuff and 4 other guys stuff, including thier cabin,
which was just threatned by the Schoonover Fire just 3-4 weeks ago are left
to fate. I was so upset and felt so helpless, it was a very bad feeling to
have to leave like that.
I have some photos I need to get downloaded from my camera, which when I do,
I will post them on a link for you guys to check out.
AzJose
<Scott...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:4311-3D0...@storefull-2113.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Mx-Pilot
take it easy,
"Ryan Burnett" <cr250r...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020611022712...@mb-df.aol.com...
Cliff Polston
> Hey Guys..
>
<snippage>
Hang in there guys. The fire fighters did some amazing things when the
fire blew through town a couple years back. Looking at the latest
perimeter maps, last night/today is the do-or-die time for Deckers.
While your praying for the cabin and your stuff, put a word in for
some rain.
For the Ride-the-Divide participants, the maps show the fire burned
right through this area. Remember Hackett Gulch and the South Platte
river -probably toast. Remember the camp area and Wilson's Lake -
toast. Save those memories. The area won't be the same again. Maybe
some of the east side was spared. It will be years before the west
side is rideable again. This is the area for the Divide Enduro. A few
months ago, the edges around the Mile High Enduro course burned. The
Calamity Pass National Enduro has been cancelled through mutual
agreement with the Forest Service. If this keeps up, the RMEC won't
have any mountain races left.
Excuse the rant,
Cliff
Rex McKinney
"Cliff Polston" <ndro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> months ago, the edges around the Mile High Enduro course burned. The
Hey Cliff good to see your still hanging out here. Have you heard any
word on the Mile High status for this year?? Can't imagine its good.
Rex McKinney
02 Yz250
00 Wr400
01 Yz125 fer sale
DirtCrashr
>right through this area. Remember Hackett Gulch and the South Platte
>river -probably toast. Remember the camp area and Wilson's Lake -
>toast. Save those memories. The area won't be the same again.
Thanks for the update, I was watching it on TV last night going, "jeeze we were
right there..."
-k
Jen and Ken Murphy
> >That's the wrong way to view things. Fire is nature's way of renewal and
> >regeneration
It might be the "wrong" way in your thinking but I'd be willing to bet that
you haven't ridden that area. The area will never, at least in my lifetime,
recover to the point that it'll be useable. I've spent the last 15 years
working enduros, trail riding, organizing spodefests, camping, etc
in this area. I feel like I've lost a dear close friend because some
shithead
decided he couldn't camp out without a fire.
Merf
Dave Sparkman
Rand, CO is officially canceled. I was looking forward to going to that one.
-Dave-
YZ 125
WR 200
TSCEC # 432
RMEC # 3030
Dave Sparkman
>I've spent the last 15 years
>working enduros, trail riding, organizing spodefests, camping, etc
>in this area.
Organizing spodefests you say, I thought you were the official non-organizer.
vlj
> It might be the "wrong" way in your thinking but I'd be willing to bet
that
> you haven't ridden that area.
Dang Merf, your memory is getting as bad as mine, we wuz both there for CO
Spodefest '97 ... http://www.off-road.com/~spodeboy/spodefest/spode.html.
> The area will never, at least in my lifetime,
> recover to the point that it'll be useable. I've spent the last 15 years
> working enduros, trail riding, organizing spodefests, camping, etc
> in this area. I feel like I've lost a dear close friend because some
> shithead decided he couldn't camp out without a fire.
I think I need to clarify my position a bit. These catastrophic fires
happen for a reason and that reason isn't getting press with all the rest of
the crapola the talking heads are filling the airwaves with. If the
shithead hadn't started it off, dry lightning would have sometime,
somewhere.
If the ill-advised but gov agency popular "Only you can prevent forest
fires" hadn't been the mantra for decades, combined with the wilderweenies
virtually shutting down logging and filing lawsuits out the wazoo when a
management road is proposed for an area much less leaving the ones there
open for access, there wouldn't have been the accumulation of fuel or full
growth timber without many meadows or open areas. The result is
non-management of an ever-increasing fuel supply that, when finally touched
off for whatever reason, causes such a catastrophic fire that *everything*
is consumed. That's what is happening now ... and its too bad.
So, along with the shithead that started the mess with their campfire, I'd
like to see the USFS "Smokey Bear" along with the Sierra Club and *all the
rest of them* getting the blame they all deserve, not just the shithead.
Good ridin' to ya,
VLJ
--
When all else fails, vote from the rooftops ...
Brian McGarry
"vlj" <v...@vlj.com> wrote in message news:QgUN8.20712
> If the
> shithead hadn't started it off, dry lightning would have sometime,
> somewhere.
The first Europeans to immigrate to America noted the ability to walk
through some Eastern forests, unencumbered by under-brush. Indians managed
the forests with annual burns. They intentionally started fires to control
mosquitoes, increase game animal browse and hunting conditions.
Brian
Brian McGarry
"Jen and Ken Murphy" <thm...@codenet.net> wrote in message
> I feel like I've lost a dear close friend because some
> shithead
> decided he couldn't camp out without a fire.
>
> Merf
I feel your pain Merf, but as Victor has been posting, this wouldn't of
happen in the first place, if the forest had been properly managed.
Brian
Rex McKinney
"Brian McGarry" <sca...@execpc.com> wrote in message news:3d08c0b8$0$3577
>
> I feel your pain Merf, but as Victor has been posting, this wouldn't of
> happen in the first place, if the forest had been properly managed.
>
I am an advocate of the "let it burn" policy except when it threatens
homes or the such. Of course logging would have thinned the forest as well
as created jobs and resources. I would strongly believe Merf feels the
same way but the point is being lost. Look at it this way. Think of your
favorite riding area, got it pictured in your mind. Now you can't go back
there for 15 years, minimum, because some dip shit thought his common sense
and Jack Daniels could have a fire "Any damn time he wanted".
If we lose the Rampart area or the Woodland Park area. This would
severely restrict my off road riding because of the increased drive. No
more afternoons of "Lets go for a ride after work" stuff, besides the
increase in cost of travel.
Eric
>
> "Brian McGarry" <sca...@execpc.com> wrote in message news:3d08c0b8$0$3577
>>
>> I feel your pain Merf, but as Victor has been posting, this wouldn't of
>> happen in the first place, if the forest had been properly managed.
>>
>
> I am an advocate of the "let it burn" policy except when it threatens
> homes or the such. Of course logging would have thinned the forest as
> well
> as created jobs and resources. I would strongly believe Merf feels the
> same way but the point is being lost. Look at it this way. Think of your
> favorite riding area, got it pictured in your mind. Now you can't go back
> there for 15 years, minimum, because some dip shit thought his common
> sense and Jack Daniels could have a fire "Any damn time he wanted".
Yah well it could be worse. At least you guys can point the finger at a
camper. Here in AZ we have a huge fire burning on Mt Lemmon, it is just
now getting contained. The investigators are at a loss on how it was
started, in the absence of any proof whatsoever they have decided it was
started by a dirtbike because "the fire originated near an area frequented
by dirtbike enthusiasts". This has prompted a move to close the entire
area to OHV's permanently. Now, I have never heard of a modern dirtbike,
with or without a spark arrestor, starting a fire. Yah sure, back in the
days of the Honda Elsinores with the pipe under the bike, but not now.
It's more likely that the cat on mom's minivan started the fire when she
pulled of the road to let junior hike.
Welcome to your National Forest
No hiking
No fishing
No hunting
No parking
No camping
No campfires
No smoking
No grills
Enjoy your stay!!!!
Eric
--
I'm not as fast as I once was, but I'm faster than I'll ever be again!
visit: http://www.nomadsmx.org/
Remove "spam" from reply-to
Jim Hall
Yeah Victor and Brian.. Gee I'm real sorry you lost your kid to that
drunken driver, but you know it wouldn't have happened if the
Emergency Room doctor hadn't been such a putz.....
Without getting into the fire management aspects of it, the area was
beautiful, and the riding was awesome.
The memories are forever, but It sucks that it's gone.
Damn Merf, I'm sorry.
Jim Hall
520 EXC and others
turning Money into Noise...
Jay C
> Without getting into the fire management aspects of it, the area was
> beautiful, and the riding was awesome.
>
> The memories are forever, but It sucks that it's gone.
Being an Easterner, I guess don't understand the finality of this
conversation. Once a fire burns up a forest around here, the growth
typically comes back (with a vengance) within a year or two. The trails are
dirt, so they'll obviously still be there. I'd figure giving it a year for
all of the ash to wash away or get absorbed into the ground, then it oughta
be good to go. Why is it going to be gone for 15 years? I don't get it.
Jay
vlj
> Yah well it could be worse. At least you guys can point the finger at a
> camper.
Well, maybe and maybe not. In yesterday's local rag, it was written:
"Authorities initially suspected the fire was
started by a campfire, but investigators said
Wednesday they were unsure of its origin
other than it was human-caused."
I'm actually somewhat surprised that they haven't blamed any of the fires on
"terrorists" yet ...
Good ridin' to ya,
VLJ
--
Take only pictures, leave only bullet holes ...
vlj
<snip> Why is it going to be gone for 15 years? I don't get it.
I'm with Jay here ... besides, with most if not all the undergrowth gone,
wouldn't this be a prime time to cut new trails?
Good ridin' to ya,
VLJ
--
If it has tits or tires, its trouble ...
Jim Hall
>Being an Easterner, I guess don't understand the finality of this
>conversation. Once a fire burns up a forest around here, the growth
>typically comes back (with a vengance) within a year or two. The trails are
>dirt, so they'll obviously still be there. I'd figure giving it a year for
>all of the ash to wash away or get absorbed into the ground, then it oughta
>be good to go. Why is it going to be gone for 15 years? I don't get it.
And I guess I don't get what you don't get. The area in question was a
lovely pine forest. Big trees. Now no pine trees, simply charred
charcoal spires.
Sure there will be regrowth. Some opportunistic ground cover will show
up almost immediately. Could you physically ride there in a year or
so? - certainly, if you don't mind bunny-hopping charred timber lying
every which way. Is it going to be the same riding experience? Of
course not. It will take well over 50 years for the forest to even
approach what it was. It takes a long long time for pine trees to grow
up. Reverting back to the fire management parts of the discussion:
pine cones (and actually a lot of pine trees) will survive a "natural"
fire, but are blown away by major events like this one. If the area
isn't artificially reseeded, it will take even longer to come back.
I could take you through the old Kendrick fire burn North of the San
Francisco Peaks here. About 5 years old, and nothing like the forest
surrounding.
Jay C
> lovely pine forest. Big trees. Now no pine trees, simply charred
> charcoal spires.
>
> Sure there will be regrowth. Some opportunistic ground cover will show
> up almost immediately. Could you physically ride there in a year or
> so? - certainly, if you don't mind bunny-hopping charred timber lying
> every which way. Is it going to be the same riding experience? Of
> course not.
Oh, OK. I thought you guys meant that you couldn't go there at all for the
next umpteen years. No, it won't be the same experience or the same views
for 50 years, but think of it this way... it'll be a whole NEW place to go
that you've never been before in a year or two! It's merely a natural
evolution of the area. Besides, 50 years is barely a tick of the clock as
far as the state of the Earth goes (not that you'd ever be able to convince
the Sierra club of that...)
Jay
David Jones
wrote:
Western forests, in the arid states, take much longer to regenerate
than the "typical" eastern forest that receives much more
precipitaton.
Yes. 50 years is but a gnats hair in the earth's evolution, but I'd
venture a guess that most of us are more concerned with what happens
ot our own litle corner of the world, in our own little time frame
called a lifespan.
>Jay
David - '02 KTM200 EXC
djo...@lsidaho.com
http://www.motosports-boise.com/rmd
"The Very Unofficial RMD Homepage"
DirtCrashr
>venture a guess that most of us are more concerned with what happens
>ot our own litle corner of the world, in our own little time frame
>called a lifespan.
In 50 years I'll be like all dead and all.
DirtPushin'Daisy
Scott...@webtv.net
Colorado woods don't recieve the annual rainfall you enjoy back East.
The two riding areas in jeopardy may be "Closed Untill Further Notice"
because without plants to diffuse water runoff, many trails will be
subject to massive and rapid erosion, creating unrideable gullies, among
many other problems.
The good news is that so far, it appears that little of either trail
system has been damaged, according to available maps.
Scottysix9
Jen and Ken Murphy
> "Authorities initially suspected the fire was
> started by a campfire, but investigators said
> Wednesday they were unsure of its origin
> other than it was human-caused."
I thought I heard on the radio this morning that they'd found the
"campfire ring" where the fire was started.
Merf
Jen and Ken Murphy
"DirtCrashr" <dirtc...@aol.comMacaroni> wrote in message
news:20020612191647...@mb-cu.aol.com...
> >For the Ride-the-Divide participants, the maps show the fire burned
> >right through this area. Remember Hackett Gulch and the South Platte
> >river -probably toast.
Hacketts, Longwater, and Metberry are toast.
> Remember the camp area and Wilson's Lake -
>toast. Save those memories. The area won't be the same again.
At this time, from looking at the topo maps, the camp area *may* be
OK. I'm sure it'll burn in the next 60-90 days though. (estimated
containment
forecast)
> Thanks for the update, I was watching it on TV last night going, "jeeze we
were
> right there..."
Yea, but ya know? It'll make my Ride the Divide T-shirt worth just a little
more...
Merf
Jen and Ken Murphy
> Rex McKinney wrote:
> I would strongly believe Merf feels the
> > same way but the point is being lost. Look at it this way. Think of
your
> > favorite riding area, got it pictured in your mind. Now you can't go
back
> > there for 15 years, minimum, because some dip shit thought his common
> > sense and Jack Daniels could have a fire "Any damn time he wanted".
Yup, exactly. It was ironic that Bob and I discussed that very thing
on Memorial Day. Bob said "Ya know, if this place burns, it's
gone for our lifetime. Most of these trees are a hundred years old"
Oh well, I'll be planting trees next year. They're estimating 60-90
days before they can get it contained. I can't comprehend that
yet.
> started by a dirtbike because "the fire originated near an area frequented
> by dirtbike enthusiasts". This has prompted a move to close the entire
That's just FU. They should be made to produce PROOF. Contact
the Blue Ribbon Coalition.
Merf
Jen and Ken Murphy
> "Jay C" <jwc.N...@sysmatrix.net> wrote:
>
> >Being an Easterner, I guess don't understand the finality of this
> >conversation. Once a fire burns up a forest around here, the growth
> >typically comes back (with a vengance) within a year or two. The trails
are
> >dirt, so they'll obviously still be there. I'd figure giving it a year
for
> >all of the ash to wash away or get absorbed into the ground, then it
oughta
> >be good to go. Why is it going to be gone for 15 years? I don't get it.
You have water and a long growing season. We have neither. A tree in
Divide may be 60' tall but it'd be close to 100 years old. This area is
approximately 8600' ASL and is covered in snow (most years) from
late October to mid-May. Stuff just doesn't grow very fast here. I've
seen forests in Oregon that are 15 years old that have trees that are easily
as big or larger, than just about any tree in the mountains. My sister in
law lives in Corvallis and every time she comes here, she says "What's
wrong with your trees?"
Merf
john
seems one of the "good" folks at U.S. Forest Service
was burning letter's from her EX hubby
so i guess not enough sex caused the fire
not poor management skill, or wait never mind
guess that is still poor management skills.
john
going back to take home ec course...
"Jen and Ken Murphy" <@.net> wrote
DirtCrashr
>> by dirtbike enthusiasts". This has prompted a move to close the entire
>That's just FU. They should be made to produce PROOF. Contact
>the Blue Ribbon Coalition.
>
>Merf
FU'd and slander - but now we know who really started it.
'97 KTM 300 MXC, '99 Beta Techno 280 - D36, BRC, CERA, COHVCO, CORVA. etc.
john
something like I'm not resting till the person that did this is charged....
LOL
john
it's amazing, how much damage well intentioned folks can do
"DirtCrashr" > wrote in message
news:20020617121859...@mb-ch.aol.com...
DirtCrashr
>something like I'm not resting till the person that did this is charged....
What amazing gall.
No wonder these people don't hesitate to salt their samples with imported Lynx
hair and everything else, they're above suspicion.
>LOL
>john
> it's amazing, how much damage well intentioned folks can do
Burning an letter to a crisp - what was the real intention besides an emotional
catharsis?
TrailCrashr
scr...@mindspring.com
>http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/US/Wildfires_and_Forest_Fires/
>seems one of the "good" folks at U.S. Forest Service
>was burning letter's from her EX hubby
>so i guess not enough sex caused the fire
>not poor management skill, or wait never mind
>guess that is still poor management skills.
>john
> going back to take home ec course...
Here's another article on it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64471-2002Jun17.html
Who wrote that they suspected dirt bikes?
Jen and Ken Murphy
"DirtCrashr" <dirtc...@aol.comMacaroni> wrote in message
> Burning an letter to a crisp - what was the real intention besides an
emotional
> catharsis?
There's been some speculation that she actually started the fire, so she
could
"discover" it, put it out, and be a hero.
Flamers note: s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n
> TrailCrashr
Merf
PS, my ISP sucks and has dropped probably 80% of this thread. If anyone
asked a
question I didn't answer, I didn't see it... :(
scrape at mindspring dot com
<thm...@codenet.net> wrote:
>PS, my ISP sucks and has dropped probably 80% of this thread. If anyone
>asked a
>question I didn't answer, I didn't see it... :(
$50.00 says you're a Mindspring/Earthlink customer.
W.B.Lyttle
94 Husaberg FE350
02 Yamaha TT-R125L (youngun's)
88 F-150 (POS)
BRC, ARRA, USA-ALL and like that
Izzy
the granite, making the soil sterile and the surface hard as glass. There
is then nothing to prevent erosion of the trails when it rains. Rains can
be very heavy washing out these burned up trails completely. The sterile,
topsoil-less ground is slow to grow anything in that condition. Dozers are
brought in to break up the surface and replant things that can grow in such
conditions. It's not looking too good right now, but about a 3rd of the
Woodland Park Trails on the west have burned and not much, if any of Rampart
Range has been affected, but I heard this morning that the fire has jumped
highway 67 about where Forest roads 323, 343, 344, 347 and 348 are, which is
the southernmost part of the Rampart Range trail system just south of
Denver. So let's hope for the best.
"Jay C" <jwc.N...@sysmatrix.net> wrote in message
news:G9nO8.11272$7Q4.4...@news.webusenet.com...
Izzy
setting another big one in that area, people who ride will keep the trails
clear. But it sure will get hot in the summer, and the snow will melt
really fast in the warm winters.
"David Jones" <djo...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:j5fkgugv9act120la...@4ax.com...
DirtCrashr
>the granite, making the soil sterile and the surface hard as glass. There
>is then nothing to prevent erosion of the trails when it rains.
After they fix the problem with the air-tankers that they grounded following
the accident in CA, maybe they can fly in dirt instead of water and
fire-retardant.
:-)
There's tons of topsoil washed down the Mississippi every day - hey doesn't
Levy have a 'plane? He lives down there...