KTM and Nazis
Tim Fulcher
govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
"all'you'all" feel.
Tim
PS read the story of Maicos demise at www.off-road.com. It's relevant.
Pekka Hänninen
>Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
>govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
>
>It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
>have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
>about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
>"all'you'all" feel.
That Jörg Haider is not a nazi. He's just a right-wing populist. There's no
way his party can actually practise their policy, because the labour unions
will start massive strikes. There have been big demonstrations in Vienna
already. Rowdy, were you there?
Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before the
delivery.
--
Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
N8
Weel, I won't be buying a bike anytime soon, but that's only cuz i'm a
cheepsk8. I just hope that KTM parts don't get any more expensive.
that's about it. Until the freedom party actually does more than be
politically incorrect I refrain from judging them. After all dirt bikes
aren't exactly PC...
Is KTM supporting Herr Haider?
Nate Littrell
96 ktm 360 exc
how does RMD feel about buying
KTMs?
>
> It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel
that we
> have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians).
I'm
> about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
> "all'you'all" feel.
>
> Tim
>
> PS read the story of Maicos demise at www.off-road.com. It's relevant.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
KTMNealio
"Tim Fulcher" <timjf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced
Austrian
I wondered where White Power got its name...
- Nealio
###################################################
##---------------- Aaron K. Neal ----------------##
##------ Software Engineer ** Boise, Idaho ------##
##------- Motocrosser - 1999 KTM 380 SX -------##
Wolfgang Neuwirth
stuff...good and not so good. The reality is that he has always known how to
stir up the country and sometimes he has gone pretty far, but he is in no way
describable as a Nazi. They have done what everybody always wanted "wake up the
socialists" and chop down their arrogance.
The "Nazi - Spin" on this issue is created by a party who is now desperate to
regain credibility and of course such a spin is extremly attractive to media and
worldpoliticians.
Let me add this: I did not vote for him....but I respect the man.
nuff said
wolfgang
"Pekka Hänninen" wrote:
> Tim Fulcher wrote in message <87f662$1k$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net>...
> >Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
> >govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
> >
> >It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
> >have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
> >about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
> >"all'you'all" feel.
>
Tim Fulcher
>Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before the
>delivery.
>--
politics. Like Italy. The govt sit there and look pompous. The rest of the
country gets on with life.
Ta Pekka
Tim
(suspicious of right wing politics..)
Rot 13
>govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
>
>It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
>have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
>about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
>"all'you'all" feel.
I dunno. Punishing all Austrians because some are Fascists is sort of
like punishing all Americans because some (and their government)
are assholes. Or punishing all South Africans because some were
rascists. There's a lot of oppressive governments in the world
and for some reason we keep trading with them (china is a good example-
a completely oppressive government, yet the US government is dying to
grant them most favored nation status in order for our big multinationals
to make more money selling stuff to them).
I was mildly against the boycott of south africa because I thought
it would hurt the economy which would hurt all the people there
more in the long run, and they were on the path to
integration anyhow. But I could understand why some people
would disagree.
>PS read the story of Maicos demise at www.off-road.com. It's relevant.
How so? Maico died because the two brothers Maisch fought
over control of the company and one had bikes sabotaged.
Mis-management due to unfighting and a sudden reputation for
poor quality will kill any company whether it's run by
a fascist or not.
--
Eric Murray www.lne.com/~ericm ericm at the site lne.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
<IMG LOWSRC="javascript:alert('Delete C: and install Linux?')">
Pete P.
turned out to be ex-SS).
Pete P.
Pekka Hänninen <pekka.h...@NOSPAMpp3.inet.fi> wrote in article
<JNFm4.368$7P3....@read2.inet.fi>...
\
> That Jörg Haider is not a nazi. He's just a right-wing populist. There's
no
> way his party can actually practise their policy, because the labour
unions
> will start massive strikes. There have been big demonstrations in Vienna
> already. Rowdy, were you there?
>
> Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before the
> delivery.
> --
DirtCrashr
>way his party can actually practise their policy, because the labour unions
>will start massive strikes.
>Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before the
>delivery.
>--
>Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
>97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
Pekka's right.
Even according to a leftist/marxist worker's group, Haider is only Austria's
answer to Pat Buchannen, because after all:
"The party's programmatic conceptions bear the imprint of big capital and
neo-liberal bourgeois social theories." Whatever :-)
and...
"In many ways the FPÖ is similar to the movement around right-wing populist
demagogue Pat Buchanan in the U.S."
(http://www.npns.org/news/worker/worker007-correction.html)
A lot of that region of the world, from what used to be Austria (lost to Italy
afer WWI) in the South Tyrol and even parts of Switzerland has been pretty damn
xenophobic since the Roman legions marched up there over two-thousand years
ago.
Who they fought tooth-and-nail...
The Roman Legions feared the "evil dwarfs" that lived in the high mountains and
thought they had magic powers. This is the region where the legendary
Troll-under-the-Bridge came from.
The xenophobia started possibly even earlier, maybe as soon as the 5,000 year
old Ice-Man was smelting his copper axe and grumbling about high-alpine
neighbors being too damn close...damn foreigners running sheep over his
pasture.
The xenoiphobic pressure is internal too, beause there's not much room for any
more people -- the available land's been locked up for centuries, even the
different provinces of Austria fight each other and look down on each other,
but they gang together if anyone presses in on the last remanent of the Holy
Roman Empire...
I believe the "Freiheit" or Freedom Party (FPÖ) has always been an
embarrassment to the intellectual and cultural elites of Austria, AND so was
another political party which sought to re-introduce and re-instate the ancient
Hapsburg Monarchy. <don't know if they're still active.>
HTH
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc
Special thanks to:
Jeff at MXSouth.com
and Phil Douglas' Aftershocks-suspension.com
and Jim Cook at Smackovermotorsports.com
Paul Mooney
Paul 91Husky610WXE
Tim Fulcher wrote:
>
> Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
> govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
>
> It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
> have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
> about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
> "all'you'all" feel.
>
> Tim
Dave Dude
wrote:
snip
>
>Who they fought tooth-and-nail...
>The Roman Legions feared the "evil dwarfs" that lived in the high mountains and
>thought they had magic powers. This is the region where the legendary
>Troll-under-the-Bridge came from.
>
>The xenophobia started possibly even earlier, maybe as soon as the 5,000 year
>old Ice-Man was smelting his copper axe and grumbling about high-alpine
>neighbors being too damn close...damn foreigners running sheep over his
>pasture.
>
Sorry but I gotta mutate this thread, I watched "The Thirteenth
Warrior" last night which was different from what I expected but still
kinda cool-Banderas is an arab embassador to the Norse-dudes who are
all bas-ass warrior types and they go on a misson to save the home
folk from the evil "bear-men" holed up in caves in the mountains that
rip the heads off their victims and eat the bodies....now I'm looking
for some chain-mail to decorate my chest protector with......any
leads?
Dave "need a broadsword too" Dude
96yz250
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Weel, I won't be buying a bike anytime soon, but that's only cuz i'm a
> cheepsk8. I just hope that KTM parts don't get any more expensive.
That could happen if Austria is banished from EC :-(
> that's about it. Until the freedom party actually does more than be
> politically incorrect I refrain from judging them.
Thats the correct attitude and not the complety paranoic attitude that
the other EC/USA/Israel gov.s are doing.
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
'96 KTM LC4 620
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> I wondered where White Power got its name...
Eheheheh...lets be honest...you are not wondering...you know the truth.
I bet that deep inside in the subconscious mind of someone when they
choosed
the name...
:-)
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
> govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
> It's nothing against KTM (or Austrians, well most of them), I feel that we
> have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians). I'm
> about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
> "all'you'all" feel.
Some points:
1- The man havent done anything wrong untill now and everybody is
jumping in
a pathetic panic.
2- '00 Austria is not '33 Germany.
3- I wonder where was the same critics when in Italy there was the same
type of gov. with a FASCIST party (with TRUE FASCIST traditions).
Maybe because (choose one):
a) Its a plot from BMW/Honda/Yamaha/Whatever to "kill" KTM <LOL>.
b) Italy population: ~60 million. Austria population: <10 million.
4- I wonder where was the same critics when in Italy there was the same
type of gov. with a FASCIST party (with TRUE FASCIST traditions).
5- I wonder where was the same critics when in the last dozens of years,
several EC gov.s was formed with members of communist parties that
said
that Stalin was a great guy (!)
6- I wonder where are the same critics when EC is more than happy
dealling (inc.weapons !) with Cuba, China, Indonesia, etc...
...yeah, "humam rights" my ass.
7- I wonder where are the same critics when USA is more than happy
dealling
with China, Indonesia, etc...yeah, "humam rights" my ass.
8- I wonder where are the same critics when ISRAEL is more than happy
dealling (inc.weapons !) with China, Indonesia, etc...
...yeah, "humam rights" my ass.
9- I wonder where are the same critics when ISRAEL helped the slaughters
in the
Palestinian refugee fields in Libanon...yeah, "colective memory",
"xenophoby",
and "war crimes" my ass.
10- This one is really "nasty"...
Deep inside, like it or not, dont care if you admit it or not,
WE ARE ALL RACISTS. Thats right !
Whites hate blacks/yellows/whatever,
Blacks hate Whites/Yellows/Whatever,
Yellows hate Whites/Blacks/Whatever, etc.
i.e. Do you know what Japanese call us ?
Somewhere in the past, present or future there was/is/will_be a
moment
in which you hate someone because of the color of the skin or
religion.
Just look deep inside you and be honest (im sure that there will be
plenty
of posts denying this...i say, LIARS )
11- Even more "nasty"...
Racism is a...NATURAL thing ! RACISM is what make us evolve from the
oceans
to what we are now.
Just look what happens to a Dog and a Wolf.
Just look what happens to a Lion and a Tiger.
Just look what happens to a Lion and a Leopard.
Put them togheter and they kill each other on the spot.
However, you can procriate Dogs with Wolfs, Lions with tigers
(true!)
and even Lions with Leopards (also true !).
RACISM is so NATURAL, that i even saw a
anti-NAZI/defender_of_racial_minorities
admit on the TV that he is RACIST !: 'Yes, im also racist....i guess
that we are
all to some degree racists...but i try to fight it'.
12- Hypocrisy smells like shit.
<sarcasm> Lets face it: Heil Hitler has almost a "musical tone" in it,
but...
...Heil Haider ?!? i dont think so </sarcasm>
OTOH, maybe i should start practice German... Sprechen Sie Deutsch ?
;-))
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> ...now I'm looking
> for some chain-mail to decorate my chest protector with......any
> leads?
Hmmmmm...Canibalism, Nazism, Racism...lets see what my sick mind can
imagine...
So, do you feel like a Warrior, huh ?
Human teeth.
Just remember to say with a casual tone , if someone asks,
that they are from a Christian/Jew/Muslin/Yellow/White/Black/Whatever
Pig if the
person that asks is a Christian/Jew/Muslin/Yellow/White/Black/Whatever
person...
...Total Mayhem !!! :-)))
> Dave "need a broadsword too" Dude
Do you feel lucky...Punk ? (from 'Dirty Harry')
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Dave Dude wrote:
> > ...now I'm looking
> > for some chain-mail to decorate my chest protector with......any
> > leads?
I forgot to put a :-) in the end.
:-)
Drehwurm
wrote:
>I wondered where White Power got its name...
When they started their company after WW1 or 2 they only paint they
could get their hands on was for hospital beds - and this was only
available in white!!! True or not, I don't know, but it is a good
story ;-)
Michael
************************
* nospam..mpetkov@ibm.net
*
* 98 Yamaha WR400
************************
Drehwurm
<timjf...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
>govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying KTMs?
My respect goes out to the people here on RMD!
When I first read the subject of the thread I feared the worst, but
most of the people here have been really unbelievably objective about
this topic. I know how hard it is to keep a clear view despite all
this media hype, but I can assure you that Austrians are no more
Nazi's than they have been a few weeks ago - and back then this was no
topic at all!
Neither has KTM or any other Austrian company anything to do with
Nazi's at all.
Mark S. Jennings
"Austria Throws Europe a Curve" if you want to know more about the politics
of this issue. It probably is NYT web site too.
- Mark
Rowdy
> That Jörg Haider is not a nazi. He's just a right-wing populist.
What do you mean by 'just'?
One has to admit, that most of the nazi minded people and the old
nazis still alive gather around Haiders party.
He still owns the Bärental, a small valley which had had others
land owners before the nazis took it from them.
More than once he was a keynote speaker at nazi SS meetings, publicly
acknowledged Hitler 'employment politics' (cynically referring to
concentration and labor camps) and so on.
But perhaps he really is *only* a populist, recruiting his voters
from truly any pool, among them people, the established parties never
would have tried to address.
> There's no way his party can actually practise their policy,
> because the labour unions will start massive strikes. There have
Fact is, the coalition between the FPÖ and the ÖVP is a truly
incompatible mix. The FPÖ (Haider) attracts the little (better
'simple') people while the ÖVP is the classic representation of
conservatives and capital. Go figure what had to be dropped from
their respective philosophies to enable a common government concept.
Thus the resulting government programe compromise is frightenly
sensible in a way.
> been big demonstrations in Vienna already. Rowdy, were you there?
Nope. Been teaching in Switzerland the last two weeks. It was _very_
interesting to see how this EU vs. Austria conflict was seen by the
Swiss. At least i can take pride in saying my colleagues in my
company were demonstrating in unity!
> Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before
> the delivery.
Uh oh. I'd call that very optimistic. (i'm a pessimist in case you
didn't notice) With all the announced cuts in spending and raised
taxes ('adjustments' in Haider-speak), they might even achieve some
good results (like getting the nation's debt under control like the
EU membership requires).
Furthermore, i'm afraid, the socialists (SPÖ) will need more time to
understand how and why they lost that much support among the working
class during the last 30 years.
They do need to get back to their roots of being a leftist group or
people will not believe that they'll fight for them against
capitalistic
EU/WTO et.al.
Back to Tim's question:
I would boycott a bike manufacturer only if he's using kids' labor
or is actively supporting dictatorships or facism/racism.
Until then i'd assume they are comprised of people as politically
mature as the dudes on RMD apparently are.
Quite an assumption, i know, but unless convicted they're innocent,
aren't they?
Rowdy
WRZ400F
PS: 'errare humanum est'
Greetings to Illinois! Finally, The Human Rights have landed, so it
seems.
Joseph Siegfried
in Austria is because they're SOCIALISTS!!!! Im afraid they'll never
figure it out either. The fact that they offer nothing more to the
average citizen than what amounts to social security in US probably
doesnt have anything to do with it LOL Nazi means national socialist so
Haider is nothing more than a socialist racist . He wont do anything any
different from the socialist party except send illegal aliens packing.
The US still has free market economy and its still the most powerful
nation ever. How could this be?
Joseph Siegfried
it means tyrany and oppression. The rightwing in a communist \ socialist
country wants communist \ socialist policies . Here in US it means
freedom. Its the "leftwing" thats imposing its morals or lack therof on
everyone here. Sounds to me that Haider is "leftwing" and KTM may suffer
serious problems. Hope not
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> More than once he was a keynote speaker at nazi SS meetings,
AFAIK, he talked about how they was bravery in combat.
FWIW, there are several myths about NAZI Germany forces:
1- SS and Gestapo was the bad guys and German Army the good guys.
There is the myth that all war crimes and the Jewish Genocide was
made by SS. The myth that the German Army was not involved in that
stuff.
2- Reality Check: Some years ago it was found proofs that many, many
conventional
German army members was envolved in the crimes. Infact, there are
even
pictures and movies showing how much fun they have doing it.
This myth was necessary for the Cold War needs in which there
was a need to present German Army as a honourable force.
This myth was even supported by many USA movies and politians.
3- Reality Check II: There was indeed *two* types of SS.
The guys allways using black uniforms which
made the genocide and was incharge of the fields and the Waffen SS
(or something
like that) that used a *Brown* uniform.
These last ones was the elite *combat* troops and, AFAIK, they wasnt
involved in the Jewish Genocide . They was the most brave and
ferocious
German combat troops and they was even proud about the big amount of
casualities in their ranks.
BTW, several members of these elite group was made off foreigners
including French, English and USA members.
So, the question is: what SS corp. was Haider supporting ?
The information that i have, which happeared on TV, is that he was
supporting the *Waffen* SS Austrian members.
> publicly
> acknowledged Hitler 'employment politics' (cynically referring to
> concentration and labor camps) and so on.
Thats a lie and you know it:
Everybody knows that Germany was in total colapse after WWI and the
Wall Street Crash made things even worse.
Indeed, the employment politics of Hitler when he reached to the power
in '33 made possible the economic recovery of Germany and a new age of
progress...
...of course that then he used it to another things but thats another
story.
It was about that employment politics that Haidler speaked.
(He also talked about the concentration camps but in another
speech/contest).
> Fact is, the coalition between the FPÖ and the ÖVP is a truly
> incompatible mix. The FPÖ (Haider) attracts the little (better
> 'simple') people while the ÖVP is the classic representation of
> conservatives and capital. Go figure what had to be dropped from
> their respective philosophies to enable a common government concept.
> Thus the resulting government programe compromise is frightenly
> sensible in a way.
Even more interesting and "frightning":
Do you know that the left wing Austrian party (SPO) that now protest
against Haider invited the FPO to make a coalition ?
Because that coalition negociations failed, it was time for OVP invite
the FPO.
"Left Wing" and "Working Class" my ass...what they wanted was to keep
the POWER
after ~30 years.
Dont get me wrong, im not a Neo-NAZI or something like that...
...infact, i piss on all Neo-NAZIs and right wing extremists.
They simply are morons and dont have any clue of what was really NAZIsm.
FWIW, NAZIsm wasnt even right wing (indeed some of the employment
politics
have even a *COMMUNIST* tone...thats right !).
There is even a famous Hitler speech that demonstrates that he liked as
much
right wing parties as left wing parties...explaining how he destroyed
both.
Neo-NAZIs and extremist right wing members are morons if they think
that if a true NAZI party rulled a country, they could worked with them
and be
best buddies.
They would be eaten alive...infact, they was prime targets for a true
NAZI party.
Do you know what means:
// //
// //
// //
// //
...in the SS uniform ? do you think that its a stylish double 'S' ?
Do you think that its a Stylish double Lightning ? Wrong and wrong...a
clue:
Its a *religious* thing...infact, all the NAZI theory, symbols and
the way to make a war is indeed a *RELIGION*.
How do i know these things ? Can i be a true NAZI ? nope, its simple,
i watch all the serious TV series about WWII and its origins.
Christopher E. Johnson
> The rightwing in a communist \ socialist country wants communist \ socialist policies . Here in US it means freedom.
Gotta call you on this one. Each wing in the US, left or right, doesn't
necessarily extend what it calls "freedom" to everyone.
Left: no freedom for business, gun ownership, OHV use, etc.
Right: no freedom for women seeking to end pregnancies, minorities
seeking the vote [historically], unions seeking to organize workers.
Both wings have good and bad points about their principles. Anyone who
believes life [and politics] is black and white isn't looking at the big
picture.
--
Christopher E. Johnson - Los Alamos NM - NMTA COG MSF VRUUM
Father O'Erin (GfNi) - http://www.cs.unm.edu/~ice/babyice.html
Guns for Nuns, inc. - http://www.mindspring.com/~dlorr
94 Kawasaki Concours "A. Tangent"
89 KX-250 for the dez
86 Yamaha TY-350 - extra neutrals at no extra charge
Pete P.
years back, turned out to be SS Lieutenant).
Pete P.
Pekka Hänninen <pekka.h...@NOSPAMpp3.inet.fi> wrote in article
all'you'all" feel.
>
>
> That Jörg Haider is not a nazi. He's just a right-wing populist. There's
no
> way his party can actually practise their policy, because the labour
unions
> will start massive strikes. There have been big demonstrations in Vienna
> already. Rowdy, were you there?
>
> Put down the deposit. Austria will have a new government before the
> delivery.
Jay C
news:87f662$1k$1...@ctb-nnrp2.saix.net...
> Touchy subject this. Now that the prospect of a nazi influenced Austrian
> govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying
KTMs?
Buying KTMs? Hell, this is the best excuse to get one that I've seen in
years.
Jay
Joseph Siegfried
that? It was mainly southern democrats fighting integration.As for labor
unions I think Benjamin Franklin (you may have heard of him) summed it
up best when he said ,"Any man that would sacrifice freedom for security
is deserving of niether",
WINGNUT
>
> AFAIK, he talked about how they was bravery in combat.
> FWIW, there are several myths about NAZI Germany forces:
>
> 1- SS and Gestapo was the bad guys and German Army the good guys.
> There is the myth that all war crimes and the Jewish Genocide was
> made by SS. The myth that the German Army was not involved in that
> stuff.
>
> 2- Reality Check: Some years ago it was found proofs that many, many
> conventional
> German army members was envolved in the crimes. Infact, there are
> even
> pictures and movies showing how much fun they have doing it.
> This myth was necessary for the Cold War needs in which there
> was a need to present German Army as a honourable force.
> This myth was even supported by many USA movies and politians.
>
>
etc..etc.........
Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your
relative illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
Uwe Hale
> etc..etc.........
> Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
> write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your
> relative illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
Chill out. Look at his name, Hint, Hint!!! He writes better english
than many Americans.
Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250
http://www.rrdr.org
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
Mike Baxter
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2000 02:11:49 -0800 "Amandio J.S. Bacalhau" <
> >
> > AFAIK, he talked about how they was bravery in combat.
> > FWIW, there are several myths about NAZI Germany forces:
> >
> > 1- SS and Gestapo was the bad guys and German Army the good guys.
> > There is the myth that all war crimes and the Jewish Genocide was
> > made by SS. The myth that the German Army was not involved in that
> > stuff.
> >
> > 2- Reality Check: Some years ago it was found proofs that many, many
> > conventional
> > German army members was envolved in the crimes. Infact, there are
> > even
> > pictures and movies showing how much fun they have doing it.
> > This myth was necessary for the Cold War needs in which there
> > was a need to present German Army as a honourable force.
> > This myth was even supported by many USA movies and politians.
> >
> >
>
> etc..etc.........
> Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
> write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your
> relative illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
I think he does pretty good for someone who lives in another country where
english is not the native language. Get a clue!
--
Mike Baxter
WINGNUT
> In article <0vAn4.4824$OA2.2...@c01read04.service.talkway.com>,
> Wingnut wrote:
> > Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
> > write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your
> > relative illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
>
> than many Americans.
>
> Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250
>
>
was torching may not be a primary user of english. I'm the goon if
thats the case! My reaction was spurred by the fact that many of the
people who speak out about these type of issues, are very poor
communicators and therefore hold little credibility in public comment.
I am of the personal opinion that the liberal media in this country
has duped most people, and far too many people take whatever CNN says
as absolute gospel. I advocate people looking into the facts of these
politically taboo topics and speaking out! It is the citizens who make
the most noise who influence the lawmakers, NOT necissarily the
majorities. Look to this whole roadless/ wilderness thing as an
example. BUt the fact is those of influence will react like I did,
although it may not be right it will happen.
I stand corrected.
Wingnut
Jon Biegbootee
Austrian
> govt is looming (large) on the horizon how does RMD feel about buying
KTMs?
>
that we
> have to make a stand somewhere (and that excludes stoning Austrians).
I'm
> about to put down my deposit on an exc400 and would like to know how
> "all'you'all" feel.
>
How do all you folks riding Tojo Riceburners feel about how the
Japs treated Koreans,Chinese,Filipinos,allied service men and millions
of others during a war THEY started.
Don't forget the Japanese still haven't appologized (as a country) for
all their heinous war crimes.
My grandfather has stories about fighting Japs in the Filipines during
the war that should make anyone's skin crawl.
--
I don't make the rules.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> etc..etc.........
> Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
> write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your
> relative illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
Let me cooldown before i kill...errrr....answer you...
...im not a USA Citizen. Im a Citizen from Portugal. Im a Portugese and
like all the other Portuguese, our natural Language is Portuguese.
Any questions about Portugal that you have, feel free to ask.
( Hint , Hint ! )
| |
V V
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
'96 KTM LC4 620
PS: Not only English isnt my natural language but also i usualy make
most of
my posts between 2-4 a.m. which doesnt help ;-)
Rowdy
>
> Amondio Dont confuse everyone by using the term "rightwing" . Over there
> country wants communist \ socialist policies . Here in US it means
> everyone here. Sounds to me that Haider is "leftwing" and KTM may suffer
Yikes!
Haider is definitely right wingTIP:
- more law and order
- zero tolerance
- kick out the foreigners (unless we need cheap, disposable workers)
- no integration of different races/beliefs/places of birth in schools
(he truly demands apartheit nowadays!)
- tight rules for granting political asylum
(raped by military/law-enforcement? doesn't qualify)
- women back to the kitchen (Haider never talks about 'single
parents',
only about families: husband deserted you? your problem.)
don't forget: left is good and right is bad :)
examples from recent Austrian incidents:
leftist extremists
- occupy empty houses
- support gay/lesbian minorities
- bomb power lines as sign of protest (got themselves killed in the
act!)
- oppose to inviting the Chinese Government to Austria (in vein)
- attack exploiters/job killers á la WTO/Nike/McDonalds
right groups kill people and love the death penalty:
- by using pipe bombs against ethnic minorities
- they blew away Vienna Major's right hand using a letter bomb!
- in Germany they set fire to a crowded fugitive house with
the police watching
So unless you're really rich, enjoy killing jobs, ruining the
environment, lowering peoples' standard of living and make them
compete with third world wages you've got nothing to fear from left
extremists, especially if you're part of a minority, a simple
worker or support civil rights and 'power to the people' philosophies.
Test:
to which side belong the club swinging, boots wearing skinheads
crushing the mexican immigrant?
Got black hair, a good sun tan and speak spanish fluently?
Watch out! (better wear an 'i love Buchanan' T-shirt) :-)
HTH
Rowdy
WRZ400F
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Sure, he's not a Nazi. Neither was Kue\rt Waldheim (Austrian Pres a few
> years back, turned out to be SS Lieutenant).
> Pete P.
Yes, BUT:
1- Lieutenant of the Waffen SS or of the SS with black uniforms ? There
is
a important point.
2- USA Gov. knew it long before he was President of Austria.
Infact, they knew it even before they supported him for...UN General
Secretary !!!
3- That reminds me...Von Braun ! He was "deNAZIfied" !...ROFLMAO, Yeah
right, and im
from Mars :-)
For USA gov., he could even be the son of S***N that they dont give a
damn about it !
They need him for the Space Program, so, who cares, right ?
BTW, One small fact about the leftwing Austria main party (SPO):
The socialist candidate to Austria presidency in '57, Adolf Scharf,
choosed as
slogan for the campaign something like...
...'Who already once was by Adolf (Hitler) , also chooses Adolf this
year'.
This a leftwing party candidate talking...BTW, he won and was President
for 8 years.
USA/Israel/Whatever havent care about it...but now Cold War is finished
(really ?!?)
and now they care (i say again, hypocrisy smells like shit).
<sarcasm>
Hey, look to it this way: Haidler is just using what is indeed
a kind of Austrian folclore !
</sarcasm>
Rowdy
<snip>
> 3- Reality Check II: There was indeed *two* types of SS.
> The guys allways using black uniforms which
> made the genocide and was incharge of the fields and the
> Waffen SS (or something like that) that used a *Brown* uniform.
I see.
While it's bad to kill according to the belief of the victim, it's
okay if you are merely starting a World War.
> These last ones was the elite *combat* troops and, AFAIK, they
> wasnt involved in the Jewish Genocide . They was the most brave
> and ferocious German combat troops and they was even proud about
Similar to the french combat troops that blew up the Rainbow Warrior
in Auckland, taking down a photographer in the course. Truly brave.
<snip>
> So, the question is: what SS corp. was Haider supporting ?
The answer is: it's irrelevant.
Killing is always bad (except for imminent self defense), no matter
what.
There is no such thing as a holy war.
> > publicly acknowledged Hitler 'employment politics' (cynically
> > referring to concentration and labor camps) and so on.
>
> Thats a lie and you know it:
Amandio, ask anyone here in Austria how he meant it or why he
apologized for that statement later and you will see exactly what he
was referring to. I never said, he was bad in double talk, did i?
> Even more interesting and "frightning":
> Do you know that the left wing Austrian party (SPO) that now
> protest against Haider invited the FPO to make a coalition ?
Thirty years ago.
Before the recent election, they declared never to collaborate with
him, no matter what. Seems it was this election's only promise kept to
date.
<snip>
> Do you know what means:
> // //
> // //
> // //
> // //
Death for 6 million jews, thousands of mentally or physically
handicapped, political misfits, pacifists and simple people trying to
defend their home country against a crazy Austrian's ideology.
<snip>
> How do i know these things ? Can i be a true NAZI ? nope, its simple,
> i watch all the serious TV series about WWII and its origins.
Better ask survivors, they won't be interrupted by commercials ;-)
Col. Hogan
WRZ400F
Doug Hunter
buying KTM's in the first place right? And our Japanese bikes? Well ask a
Bataan death march survivor or Hong Kong veteran about what he thinks of
them! Husqvarna's are made in Italy now, and remember Moussolini? There's
always a "made in USA" ATK, but not after the way the US treated the
American Indians? How about a late 70's CAN-AM? Of course Canadians were
slugging cute little baby seals over their heads then weren't they.
I'd walk, but I think my Nikes shoes were built with east -Indian child
labourers!
Doug Hunter
Jon Biegbootee <baj...@mailexcite.com> wrote in article
<87nhdb$a8n$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
DirtCrashr
<>snip
>Sorry but I gotta mutate this thread, I watched "The Thirteenth
>Warrior" last night which was different from what I expected but still
>kinda cool-Banderas is an arab embassador to the Norse-dudes who are
<snip>
>now I'm looking
>for some chain-mail to decorate my chest protector with......any
>leads?
>
>Dave "need a broadsword too" Dude
>96yz250
You go search on "chain-mail" and you'll get a glimps of the faintly-kinky and
always sullen side of Gothwannabee. Do yourself a favor and skip the
bikini-brief chain-mail...or wear it on your helmet :-)
Heh, interesting - the movie was an adaptation of a Michael Crichton novel
"Eaters of the Dead" which was a play on the most ancient English or
Anglo-Saxon heroic legend of Beowulf, as seen from the perspective of an Arab
who winds up "North by Norsemen" along with a group of warriors to fight the
monster named Wendel (too bad I had a buddy named Wendel -- or Grendel), which
may harken back to an era when the Cro-Magnon and Neanderthan coincided...etc.
The Arab is used as a device in the novel to paint a pespective of the
northern-european's relative cultural backwardness, showing how the Arab world
was more clean and civilized and advanced in math and hygine by comparison.
http://www.wyrdweavers.com/beowulfproj/eodnorthmen.html
"He noted that they don't wash after relieving themselves or when dirty. An
example of their disgusting cleansing habit, is their daily wash. Every morning
a slave girl would bring a tub of water to her master. Her master would wash
his face and hands, and comb his hair. After, he would blow his nose and spit
into the tub. When he was finished, the girl would bring the tub to the next
person until everyone has finished using the tub."
It took a long time before they invented indoor plumbing, or considered a need
for it...
:-)
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc
Special thanks to:
Jeff at MXSouth.com
and Phil Douglas' Aftershocks-suspension.com
and Jim Cook at Smackovermotorsports.com
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Haider is definitely right wingTIP:
Are you sure ? or is just the same thing with a diferent color ? lets
see...
> - more law and order
If crime is ( i dont know if it is) increasing in Austria that its
natural.
Just look what is happening in UK cities, TV cameras whatching everybody
!!!
In USA, restrictive laws against personnal weapons, Police using
extreme force in ridiculous situations !!! So, whats diferent ?
> - zero tolerance
About what ? speed limits ? We have now that here in some roads. So,
whats diferent ?
> - kick out the foreigners (unless we need cheap, disposable workers)
Allô !?! Just see USA and Mexicans ! ALL the other EC members and
East_Europe/Africa/Asia/whatever people ! So, whats diferent ?
What great cause is indeed the EC members and USA defending ? The 'Big
Lie' ?
> - no integration of different races/beliefs/places of birth in schools
> (he truly demands apartheit nowadays!)
In France, its the muslin minority that asks that.
<sarcasm>
Well, Haidler is a dream come true for Muslins !...
...and there are people that dont understand the Man !
</sarcasm>
> - tight rules for granting political asylum
Why not ? nowdays, people ask political asylum many times w/o a true
reason.
> (raped by military/law-enforcement? doesn't qualify)
Actually it doesnt. That can happen in any democratic country, even USA
!
So, if someone asks *political* asylum because he was *raped* in a USA
Prison
should anyone give it ? No.
*Political* IS *Political*. Rape by itself is NOT political. There must
be
background events/situations of *political* nature beyond the rape to
consider
any chance of giving political asylum.
> - oppose to inviting the Chinese Government to Austria (in vein)
IIRC, the Chinese also gonne to UK, USA, France, etc. and their
leftwing gov.s seem very happy negociating with them..
...and Chinese militars gonne to Israel to buy new "toys" to "play" with
Taiwan.
<sarcasm>
Aaaah yes ! Who cares if China gov is what it is ? they are 1.2 billion
and
their econonmy is developing real fast, lets the cash rool in !
Who cares about the prisioners shoot in the head and opened in the spot
to remove
the internal organs for transplants ? They have the money, they are
tolerable ! Shit, i bet that they could even make gas chambers if they
wanted !
...But a rightwing gov. in Austria that still havent done nothing to
really
decrease Human Rights in Austria ? Watchout ! Sandman is here to take
you all !
Mean Gene
Cristopher E.Johnson wrote:
Gotta call you on this one. Each wing in the US, left or right, doesn't
necessarily extend what it calls "freedom" to everyone. Left: no freedom
for business, gun ownership, OHV use, etc. Right: no freedom for women
seeking to end pregnancies, minorities seeking the vote [historically],
unions seeking to organize workers.
Both wings have good and bad points about their principles. Anyone who
believes life [and politics] is black and white isn't looking at the big
picture.
Gene
99 KLX300R
Mean Gene
well.How well do you write in portugese?
Wingnut wrote:
etc..etc.........
Hey man I have some advice for you. You need to learn how to spell and
write properly. You bring up some interesting points, but your relative
illiteracy takes away ALL of your credibility!
Gene
99 KLX300R
Mean Gene
and let Hitler take over the world during WW2
until such time as he actually invaded the US
and started killing Americans("imminent self
defense".)
Rowdy wrote:
Killing is always bad (except for imminent self defense), no matter
what.
There is no such thing as a holy war.
Gene
99 KLX300R
Mean Gene
killed,or Montagnards who were destroyed by
the Vietnamese,or Cambodia,or the Shining Path in Peru.Guess he's
correct nobody has anything to fear from leftist extremest.
Gene
99 KLX300R
Tim (fusion1)
Japanese bikes and Pearl Harbor were the first things that popped into
my mind, too. There are a couple of vets in my family, including a
WW2 vet (2nd Air Commando Group, Buhrma). Like you, I've heard some
stories.
You have to realize though, that the generation responsible for that
is no longer in control.
Most are long dead (they were 50+ when WW2 started).
Basically, what I'm saying is forgive, but never forget.
I saw a special on the History Channel about how horribly the Japanese
treated their prisoners. They were ruthless.
I can also remember my buddies grandfather showing us pictures he
brought (read: smuggled) back from WW2.
Mostly pictures of artillery someplace that looked like it would be
paradise at any other time. I can't even remember where he was
stationed.
One picture shows an unarmed Japanese soldier sitting on a tree stump,
smiling.
The picture seemed odd to me, and I asked what the story was behind
it. He proceeded to tell me about how they had captured the soldier.
He was separated from his unit, out of ammo, dehydrated and hungry.
He was smiling because he was glad to have a drink.
My buddies grandfather then told me that 10 seconds after the picture
was taken, one of the soldiers in his unit put his sidearm to the
Japanese soldiers head and pulled the trigger.
The picture haunts me to this day. It's way worse than if I just saw a
picture of him already dead.
War crimes are part of war. I guess it's hard to fathom the hate and
coldness you can feel unless you've experienced it.
Tim
Wesley Grass
|>
|>
|> One picture shows an unarmed Japanese soldier sitting on a tree stump,
|> smiling.
|>
|>
|> was taken, one of the soldiers in his unit put his sidearm to the
|> Japanese soldiers head and pulled the trigger.
|>
|> The picture haunts me to this day. It's way worse than if I just saw a
|> picture of him already dead.
|> War crimes are part of war. I guess it's hard to fathom the hate and
|> coldness you can feel unless you've experienced it.
|>
|> Tim
--
My father told me a story from a book he read (he served post war). Some
soldiers found a Japanese soldier who'd been hit by shrapnel, that'd taken
the top of his head off. He was leaned against a tree, and his empty skull
cavity was filled with rain water. They were standing around seeing if they
could throw pebbles into the "pot".
I guess you eventually get desensitized to it. In a way, I'm glad the only
stories my uncle told me about the Pacific Islands were the warehouses full
of brand new tires they burned before coming home, and the brand new bulldozers
they ran into the ocean.
Wes
Joe Rooney
writes:
>My father told me a story from a book he read (he served post war). Some
>soldiers found a Japanese soldier who'd been hit by shrapnel, that'd taken
>the top of his head off. He was leaned against a tree, and his empty skull
>cavity was filled with rain water. They were standing around seeing if they
>could throw pebbles into the "pot".
>
"Goodbye Darkness" by Manchester.
Joe
Rowdy
>
> So,your saying we should have just rolled over
> and let Hitler take over the world during WW2
> until such time as he actually invaded the US
> and started killing Americans("imminent self
> defense".)
Of course not. Countries can self defend too.
(When attacked physically, that is)
I was saying, that in an attack war, there is no bravery to be admired
in the storm troops, just slaughtering innocent people by 'merely
following orders'.
'Preventive war' or war instead of economic sanctions or war to
enforce local law upon foreign countries is a bad crime.
just my view, ya know.. :-)
Rowdy
dirt dejavu
Joseph Siegfried wrote:
> Chris,what do you mean freedom to end pregnancy, what kind of freedom is
> that? It was mainly southern democrats fighting integration.
Its called freedom from excessive government control over the lives
of all ordinary citizens, Especially when it is better left up to an
individual's religious beliefs / teachings, or a general consensus of
the particular family involved.
> As for labor
> unions I think Benjamin Franklin (you may have heard of him) summed it
> up best when he said ,"Any man that would sacrifice freedom for security
> is deserving of niether",
As a labor activist-organizer-webmaster going back and forth between
this odd thread and my page editing for the union local here in
New Mexico, I am glad to see that you have some common sense
at least. I sacrificed my security in order to have true freedom
in my job. The only people who would fit your quote from Franklin
would be the ones who chose not to fight the issues. They are stuck
without freedom. Ass kissing is the best they can do now.
I am a member of an organization where we get to make our own
agenda by democratic vote on issues, and by democratically electing
our own representatives, and officers.
DD '99 XT350
Dave Dude
wrote:
>
>Japanese bikes and Pearl Harbor were the first things that popped into
>my mind, too.
snip
Pearl Harbor? That was bad but Japanese killed 20 million chinese!
Incredible! Two Japanese officers had a contest to see who could cut
off more heads before they got too tired-this in a chinese city where
everyone was killed. One of my uncles was killed on the Bunker Hill by
a kamikaze. The Japanese are still one of the most closed and arrogant
people on the planet-never forget. But every country that manufactures
bikes has some bad juju associated with them so what are you gonna do?
Not ride?
Dave Dude
96yz250
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> The picture haunts me to this day. It's way worse than if I just saw a
> picture of him already dead.
> War crimes are part of war. I guess it's hard to fathom the hate and
> coldness you can feel unless you've experienced it.
Thats the truth about war:
Every side involved gets their hands dirty sooner or later.
Pete Plassmann
nations have the right to re-elect their own Hitler if they want to. My
point was that right-wing politicians are nothing new to Austria. Hitler was
widely cheered when he entered Austria after the "Anscluss" of 1938. If
that's the way the Austrian people want their country to be, so be it! Just
don't expect the rest of the world to agree. That doesn't mean that I'll give
up my KTM, either!
I remember getting stopped by the Austrian cops in a small town outside of
Innsbruck. They were stopping all the bikes that day. They took my last $70
in lira, and really pissed off this German guy I was following. He stopped in
the middle of an intersection and shouted "F**K to Austria!" when we entered
Innsbruck.
The Austrian border guards still wear old Wermacht uniforms.
Pete P.
"Amandio J.S. Bacalhau" wrote:
Pekka Hänninen
<snipeti-snapeti>
>- women back to the kitchen (Haider never talks about 'single
>parents',
> only about families: husband deserted you? your problem.)
>
> don't forget: left is good and right is bad :)
We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
-female
-lawyer
-pacifist
-human rights activist
-left-wing social democrat
-ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
-single mother
-not a member of church
-not married, lives with her boyfriend
She got my vote!
--
Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
Jay C
news:01bf71c1$a2cc7b80$f3a294d1@default...
> Well Hitler himself was an Austrian so I guess no one should have been
> buying KTM's in the first place right? And our Japanese bikes? Well ask a
> Bataan death march survivor or Hong Kong veteran about what he thinks of
> them! Husqvarna's are made in Italy now, and remember Moussolini? There's
> always a "made in USA" ATK, but not after the way the US treated the
> American Indians? How about a late 70's CAN-AM? Of course Canadians
Crap - I don't know what to do. I've always wanted a KTM, and could give a
damn about the Hitler thing, but now that's politically incorrect (thanks
for nothing). I hate the Japs as much as the next guy, but I own a couple
of their bikes - I guess they are headed for the dumpster. I DO have a
CanAm ('84 vintage - kicks ass) but I hate the Canadians too, goddamn
obnoxious frogs with hockey sticks hanging out of their noses. I refuse to
buy anything made by inbred sleezy greaseballs, so Husky and Cagiva are
definatley out. I'd look into ATK, but they are based in Utah and I've had
those PITA mormans beat on my door and harass the hell out of me so screw
ATK. Anybody know when that Cannondale is coming out? Oh wait...
Cannondale is from Pennsylvania, and we all know that Pennsylvania is
populated by the Dutch, who are actually German, which makes the Cannondale
as taboo as the friggin KTM!! GAAAAA!
Maybe it's time to take up fishing.
Jay
DirtCrashr
>-female
>-lawyer
>-pacifist
>-human rights activist
>-left-wing social democrat
>-ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
>-single mother
>-not a member of church
>-not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
>She got my vote!
>--
>Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
>97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
Yeh, but was she cute?
;-)
Jay C
>
> We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
> She got my vote!
Well then, you definately deserve what you get!
Jay
DirtCrashr
>You have to realize though, that the generation responsible for that
>is no longer in control.
>Most are long dead (they were 50+ when WW2 started).
>Basically, what I'm saying is forgive, but never forget.
That's the sad thing about History and the great thing about Time.
Alongside the caveat about learning and knowledge and "those who are condemned
to repeat it" History teachs us what to remember and regret, while Time teaches
us that new possibilities exist forward and we are not bound to the same path
-- at least in Western non-fatalist non-cyclical philosophy where redemption is
possible, and even necessary.
ben walker
>
> Rowdy wrote in message <389F426A...@gmx.net>...
> <snipeti-snapeti>
> >- women back to the kitchen (Haider never talks about 'single
> >parents',
> > only about families: husband deserted you? your problem.)
> >
> > don't forget: left is good and right is bad :)
>
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
> She got my vote!
> Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
> 97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
ben walker
leftist. Right to freedom in your job? Where is my right as a business
owner to set wages.If you dont like it go work for someone else. I am a
proponent of freedom.Freedom in all aspects of life not just those that
I benifit from. Wages should be set by market forces and the relative
value of the job being done not by some union. Btw look at what unions
have done to Us MFG in the last 15 years.Sent it to mexico and god knows
where else. Also getting back to the Hitler thing. The Japanese in ww11
murdered A lot more Chinese than the Germans killed jews.Not that both
were not bad, but you only seem to hear about the Germans not the
Russians, Japanese, etc.
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> Yeh, but was she cute?
> ;-)
She's uggly :-))
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
GEEEEEEEZ ! How much worse could she be ?!
> She got my vote!
Pekka, Pekka, what have you done ?! its the end of Finland !!!
I allready see the Muslins, Jews, Zimbabwe, etc. boycotting Nokia !!!
She represents all the decay in Western Societies !!!
Down with Finland !
PS: How much worse could she be ?!...well...she's also ugly !
BWAAAAAAAAAHHH !
:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
:-) :-)
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> > She got my vote!
> may God have mercy on Finland
...and on Pekka to ! What he was thinking when he done that ?!!? :-)
Anssi Lehtinen
> ben walker wrote:
> > > She got my vote!
> > may God have mercy on Finland
>
> ...and on Pekka to ! What he was thinking when he done that ?!!? :-)
I voted for her too. Or, rather, against the guy that did his best to
please the infamous average voter.
--
Anssi
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> The Arab is used as a device in the novel to paint a pespective of the
> northern-european's relative cultural backwardness, showing how the Arab world
> was more clean and civilized and advanced in math and hygine by comparison.
<sarcasm>
Oooh great ! if it was a guy from Austria called Haidler talking about
Muslins
i bet that everybody call him NAZI and burn him...
However, its a Muslin putting white guys down
and thats allways political correct ! its even...cultural correct !
...and of course, there is no racistic connections !
</sarcasm>
> "He noted that they don't wash after relieving themselves or when dirty. An
> example of their disgusting cleansing habit, is their daily wash. Every morning
> a slave girl would bring a tub of water to her master. Her master would wash
> his face and hands, and comb his hair. After, he would blow his nose and spit
> into the tub. When he was finished, the girl would bring the tub to the next
> person until everyone has finished using the tub."
Well...actually...that is really disgusting :-)
No wait ! its a tribal thing ! The Leader gets pure water and the one in
the lower
rank gets the shaft...nothing new, its still the same all over the
World.
Pekka Hänninen
>
>Pekka, Pekka, what have you done ?! its the end of Finland !!!
>I allready see the Muslins, Jews, Zimbabwe, etc. boycotting Nokia !!!
>She represents all the decay in Western Societies !!!
Actually, that would describe her opponent on the last round, the candidate
of the "peasant union". Their party is centrist, but in reality they are a
bunch of arrogant selfish opportunists, who were the most eager sovjet ass
kissers during the cold war.
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> -- at least in Western non-fatalist non-cyclical philosophy where redemption is
> possible, and even necessary.
...for the ones that believe that. I believe that when we die, its all
over.
No sound, vision, taste, smell, pressure, up, down, left, right, heat,
cold, etc, etc.
...and no stupid white lights.
The big and eternal void.
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
It seems that way.
In special, we can consider Cambodia killing fields the Asian version of
what
was done by Germany agains the Jews,etc.
...and Stalin and Mao ! any of them murdered much more people than
Hitler !
DirtCrashr
>of the "peasant union".
Pesant Union?
ROFL "We stand for ignorance, illiteracy, backbraking labor, working barefoot
in muddy fields, intransigient traditionalism, unwashed food and communicable
diseases!" What a slogan ;-)
>Their party is centrist, but in reality they are a
>bunch of arrogant selfish opportunists, who were the most eager sovjet ass
>kissers during the cold war.
"The Bendover Party, we're here to please!"
>--
>Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
>97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
I don't mind lesbians running for office, they sell a lot of flannel. I wish
we had politics like that here :-)
IRKurt
Nope, I'm going to "Moto-heaven..." Where your bike never needs a spark plug,
your air filter is alway clean and your cooler is always full. All riding
areas are ten minutes from home. Oh yeah, there's Pop-Tart trees along the
trail.... Oooh, blueberry!
Non cyclical because the track never ends... mmmmmm
Kurt the non-fatalist western redemptive.
'99 KX250
In article <38A0F6...@yahooCUT.comCUT>, "Amandio J.S. Bacalhau"
<kronkCU...@yahooCUT.comCUT> writes:
> I believe that when we die, its all
>over.
>No sound, vision, taste, smell, pressure, up, down, left, right, heat,
>cold, etc, etc.
>...and no stupid white lights.
>
> The big and eternal void.
>
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
>
> "Amandio J.S. Bacalhau" wrote:
> <snip>
> > 3- Reality Check II: There was indeed *two* types of SS.
> > The guys allways using black uniforms which
> > made the genocide and was incharge of the fields and the
> > Waffen SS (or something like that) that used a *Brown* uniform.
> I see.
> While it's bad to kill according to the belief of the victim, it's
> okay if you are merely starting a World War.
When it started it wasnt a WW...and since when just because you start a
war you
are a war criminal ?!?
Using that logic, USA Army is a bunch of war criminals !...and how about
the rest of the World ?!?
> > These last ones was the elite *combat* troops and, AFAIK, they
> > wasnt involved in the Jewish Genocide . They was the most brave
> > and ferocious German combat troops and they was even proud about
> Similar to the french combat troops that blew up the Rainbow Warrior
> in Auckland, taking down a photographer in the course. Truly brave.
...which was Portuguese, FWIW. That was a true State Terrorist Act.
You are mixing all togheter.
We can consider the Waffen SS the same as the
USA Navy Seals + Rangers + Marines + US Whatever.
(Actually Waffen SS was more like a kind of assault troops used against
very
dificult *military* targets ...thats why they usualy have a very high
rate of
casualities... they could not have that high rate of casualities if they
was
murdering defendless civilians, could they ? ;-)
Are you saying that these USA special forces members are War Criminals
just
because they are better than normal USA troops and fight for what they
believe and
because they attack 1st ?
You can consider the reasons why Waffen SS soldiers fighted completly
wrong...but you cant call them War Criminals unless that there are
proofs
against the specific elements of that corp. of war crimes and even then,
only in a individual basis.
i.e. After all, there are several US Marines that made war crimes in
Vietnam...
...should we call all USA Marine members,
'Baby Killers' because of what some have done ? Of course not !!!!
The same rules should apply to ex-Waffen SS members.
> > So, the question is: what SS corp. was Haider supporting ?
> The answer is: it's irrelevant.
> Killing is always bad (except for imminent self defense), no matter
> what.
?!
So, if Japan havent done what they did in Pearl Harbour, you simply let
them
invade Australia,etc. ?
Now tell me...when Germany and Japan have invaded all the other
Countries in the
world, *who* will help you ?...and do you think that they let you alone
?!?
> There is no such thing as a holy war.
<sarcasm>
Tell that to the muslins ! im sure they will agree with you !
</sarcasm>
> Amandio, ask anyone here in Austria how he meant it
Thats not the info that i have.
> or why he
> apologized for that statement later and you will see exactly what he
> was referring to.
Not exactly. It seems that no matter what he says, some people allways
try
to find a dark meaning and so, at that moment, he was hopping that he
could
smooth things so there was no boycot against Austria.
> I never said, he was bad in double talk, did i?
Hey, he's just like any politician ;-)
> > Do you know what means:
> > // //
> > // //
> > // //
> > // //
> Death for 6 million jews, thousands of mentally or physically
> handicapped, political misfits, pacifists and simple people trying to
> defend their home country against a crazy Austrian's ideology.
Nope...thats the final result not the meaning of the symbol.
...and BTW, where are the international courts that judged Stalin/Mao
war crimes ?
( any of the two killed much more than Hitler !)
...and where is EC/USA when China continues to have such a "good" human
rights ?
BTW, just because Japanese made war crimes that could not be a excuse
for the War
Crimes that some USA soldiers made against Japanese soldiers (and even
civillians !)
Was they ever judged ? i dont think so.
<sarcasm>
...or what is hapenning is that deep down you are all jealous of the
killing machine made by Germans ? or the will to really do it at cold
blood just
like we can see in 'Apocalypse Now' when Kurtz talks about the will of
the VCs ?
Whats happing is that you dont have the organization capacity of Germans
!
What you are is a bunch of jealous Amateurs !
</sarcasm>
What really happens is that...
History is allways written by the Winner.
The looser is allways shafted.
The Winner is allways the good guy.
The looser is allways the bad guy that deserved everything that he got
and then some.
<sarcasm>
Remember: It doesnt matter how much and/or how you kill them as long as
you are the winner !
</sarcasm>
dirt dejavu
> >
> > Its called freedom from excessive government control
> > As a labor activist
> > The only people who would fit your quote from Franklin
> > would be the ones who chose not to fight. They are stuck
> > Ass kissing is the best they can do now.
> > I am a member of an organization where we get to make our own
> > agenda by democratic vote on issues, and by democratically electing
> > our own representatives, and officers.
> >
> > DD '99 XT350
>
> What do labor unions have to do with freedom? I see them as almost
> leftist. Right to freedom in your job? Where is my right as a business
> owner to set wages.If you dont like it go work for someone else. I am a
> proponent of freedom.Freedom in all aspects of life not just those that
> I benifit from. Wages should be set by market forces and the relative
> value of the job being done not by some union. Btw look at what unions
> have done to Us MFG in the last 15 years.Sent it to mexico and god knows
> where else. Also getting back to the Hitler thing. The Japanese in ww11
> murdered A lot more Chinese than the Germans killed jews.Not that both
> were not bad, but you only seem to hear about the Germans not the
> Russians, Japanese, etc.
In a perfect world or even a slightly better working environment
there will be no need for labor unions.
> You have the same right as I do: to negotiate a fair price.
In the past many corrupt and/or incompetent companies have destroyed
their business and contacts just by force of habit.
In these situations it is most frequently the regular working guys
who see the problem first. In the case of the company I have
been working for, management was fully out of control on the
denial side of things.
How about freedom to match the corrupt company lawyers with
YOUR OWN?
I hope you are honest and fully expect that you are.
happy rides and sales dude!
DD XT350
MrB1G
--
MrB1G
95 CR500
****************************************************************************
*****
Pekka Hänninen <pekka.h...@NOSPAMpp3.inet.fi> wrote in message
news:y1Xn4.273$5x2....@read2.inet.fi...
> Rowdy wrote in message <389F426A...@gmx.net>...
> <snipeti-snapeti>
> >- women back to the kitchen (Haider never talks about 'single
> >parents',
> > only about families: husband deserted you? your problem.)
> >
> > don't forget: left is good and right is bad :)
>
>
> We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
> She got my vote!
Rowdy
>
> Rowdy wrote:
<snip>
> When it started it wasnt a WW..
In my book of morale, yes. Who else, the victim??
> Using that logic, USA Army is a bunch of war criminals
True, if they are the aggressor.
First they support some dictators and then, when the country might
turn to a political direction they dislike they invade it. As seen in
Grenada (or was it Panama, or both? :)
> ...and how about the rest of the World ?!?
Same goes for Japan, the Austrian Monarchy starting WW1...
> > Similar to the french combat troops that blew up the Rainbow Warrior
> > in Auckland, taking down a photographer in the course. Truly brave.
>
> ...which was Portuguese, FWIW. That was a true State Terrorist Act.
> You are mixing all togheter.
Nope. Commited by top notch 'navy storm troops' similar to US Navy
Seals, nazi-SS, Green Barets(sp?) or whatever those government paid
terrorists are called.
<snip>
> Are you saying that these USA special forces members are War Criminals
> just because they are better than normal USA troops and fight for what they
> believe and because they attack 1st ?
Of course! The same type of lunacism the Moslems use to justify their
holy war. The same action doesn't become a good one only because 'we'
are doing it to the others for the sake of national security or world
commerce (the US Holy Topics), does it?
Imagine me sneaking down into Portugal and burning down your house
because your ideas appear threatening to my visions and endanger 'what
i believe in'. Brave defender of 'Rowdy's ideals' or cheap criminal
attacking innocent Amandio?
<snip>
> i.e. After all, there are several US Marines that made war crimes in
> Vietnam... ...should we call all USA Marine members,
> 'Baby Killers' because of what some have done ? Of course not !!!!
I don't admire groups, that can get that much out of control that they
deliberately kill babies, do you? NOTHING justifies violence against
defenseless people.
<snip>
> > There is no such thing as a holy war.
>
> <sarcasm>
> Tell that to the muslins ! im sure they will agree with you !
> </sarcasm>
Makes no sense, they're idiots, just like the catholics!
'Religion' is the number one cause of war (tightly followed by money)
Or do you believe the US 'helped out' in south east asia because of
the people there? The military didn't give a s**t for anything else
than pushing back Russian influence. Nice trick, if you can do it
claiming to protect freedom.
<snip Haider praising Nazi 'employment politics'>
> Not exactly. It seems that no matter what he says, some people
> allways try to find a dark meaning and so, at that moment, he
> was hopping that he could smooth things so there was no boycot
> against Austria.
That had happened a couple of years ago, not related to any election.
He had to apologize for a lot of things he said in relation to nazi
times.
<snip>
> <sarcasm>
> ...or what is hapenning is that deep down you are all jealous of the
> killing machine made by Germans ? or the will to really do it at cold
> blood just like we can see in 'Apocalypse Now' when Kurtz talks about
> the will of the VCs ?
> Whats happing is that you dont have the organization capacity of Germans!
> What you are is a bunch of jealous Amateurs !
> </sarcasm>
<snip>
> <sarcasm>
> Remember: It doesnt matter how much and/or how you kill them as long as
> you are the winner !
> </sarcasm>
You ain't hiding you true beliefs from public attacks by declaring
them as sarcasm, do you?
Rowdy
WRZ400F
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
> > When it started it wasnt a WW..
> > and since when just because you start a war you are a war criminal ?!?
> In my book of morale, yes. Who else, the victim??
You mean that if a Country knows that another one is preparing an attack
it should wait or else it will be a war crime attack 1st to prevent
its own defeat and destruction ?!?
...or if another Country decides to cut your watter supply you just let
it be and do nothing ?!?
Your morale is indeed diferent from mine...and im proud of it ! :-)
> > Using that logic, USA Army is a bunch of war criminals
> True, if they are the aggressor.
> First they support some dictators and then, when the country might
> turn to a political direction they dislike they invade it. As seen in
> Grenada (or was it Panama, or both? :)
Both...but again that doesnt mean that the soldiers made war crimes.
(however, i know that some done them in Panama invasion and Somalia)
Again, you judge individual soldiers acts allways as a war crime no
matter what
they for the simple reason that they start a war or belong to
a specific type of militar unit...and thats completly
ridiculous ! you know whats a war crime ?:
Killing with intention unarmed civilians,
killing with intention unarmed militars that surrendered,
torture, rape, mutilation, use of mass destruction weapons against
defendless civilians, etc.
*Thats* the kind of stuff that can be considered war crimes.
Any other individual action of a soldier is not a war crime and its
justified.
Why do you thing that nobody asked the judgement of Kurt W. ? not even
Israel
dared to ask that because he havent done *nothing* that can be
considered a
war crime.
> > ...and how about the rest of the World ?!?
> Same goes for Japan, the Austrian Monarchy starting WW1...
One thing is the decisions of the Leaders, another is the acts of the
individual soldiers.
Thats why many NAZI/Japan leaders was judged (they gived the orders).
Thats why many ex-SS members never was/gonna_be judged (like Kurt W.)
because
they `*never* done war crimes.
You cant call someone war criminal if he havent done them.
Thats the type of attitude like yours, that many people of leftwing
have.
Its a atitude that only shows how blind and prejudiced they are.
"Democracy defenders" my ass. More like Red guards.
> Nope. Commited by top notch 'navy storm troops' similar to US Navy
> Seals, nazi-SS, Green Barets(sp?) or whatever those government paid
> terrorists are called.
The french that done it was of their secret services and not of any
French
militar special force. Again, you cant even consider everybody in the
French
secret services guilty of that attack.
<sarcasm>
Do you also include the cleanning woman ?
</sarcasm>
> > Are you saying that these USA special forces members are War Criminals
> > just because they are better than normal USA troops and fight for what they
> > believe and because they attack 1st ?
> Of course! The same type of lunacism the Moslems use to justify their
> holy war. The same action doesn't become a good one only because 'we'
> are doing it to the others for the sake of national security or world
> commerce (the US Holy Topics), does it?
Again, you can only consider war crimes
Killing with intention unarmed civilians,
killing with intention unarmed militars that surrendered,
torture, rape, mutilation, use of mass destruction weapons against
defendless civilians, etc.
Anything else is justified.
You know, using your logic, USA was still a colony of UK. :-))
People have the right to *start* a war and *kill* their *opressors* to
be *free*.
Many muslins fighters are true war criminals but some of their wars
*and*
the way they done them was justified just like many other wars made by
people of other religions.
> Imagine me sneaking down into Portugal and burning down your house
> because your ideas appear threatening to my visions and endanger 'what
> i believe in'. Brave defender of 'Rowdy's ideals' or cheap criminal
> attacking innocent Amandio?
<sarcasm>
Neither...
...because 1st, i blow your balls, then i ask you to look in my eyes,
and then i blow your brain, all this
even before you start the fire and will i use
your remains to feed my dogs ! BTW, how much do you weight ?
</sarcasm>
*Thats* what we can consider a war crime :-))
> > i.e. After all, there are several US Marines that made war crimes in
> > Vietnam... ...should we call all USA Marine members,
> > 'Baby Killers' because of what some have done ? Of course not !!!!
> I don't admire groups, that can get that much out of control that they
> deliberately kill babies, do you? NOTHING justifies violence against
> defenseless people.
Who says that i admire USA Marines ? Believe me, i dont (low standards
for
a true elite troop ;-)
...but again, you cant condemn a group just because some bad apples.
> That had happened a couple of years ago, not related to any election.
> He had to apologize for a lot of things he said in relation to nazi
> times.
All the things for which he apologized was only related with
declarations allready with some years.
> <snip>
> > <sarcasm>
> > ...or what is hapenning is that deep down you are all jealous of the
> > killing machine made by Germans ? or the will to really do it at cold
> > blood just like we can see in 'Apocalypse Now' when Kurtz talks about
> > the will of the VCs ?
> > Whats happing is that you dont have the organization capacity of Germans!
> > What you are is a bunch of jealous Amateurs !
> > </sarcasm>
> <snip>
> > <sarcasm>
> > Remember: It doesnt matter how much and/or how you kill them as long as
> > you are the winner !
> > </sarcasm>
>
> You ain't hiding you true beliefs from public attacks by declaring
> them as sarcasm, do you?
Well, sometimes "Democratic" govs/leaders act like they was jealous for
not have the guts to do it and they really wish they have ;-)
I dont need to hide anything, i believe that:
Its a fact that Austria new gov. was judged and isolated w/o facts to
support it,
only because of the party is rightwing and because some speechs made by
its
leader in the past.
Its a fact that in the past the same type of speechs was made by Austria
leftwing members (and a future leftwing Austria President) and nobody
give damn.
Its a fact that several communist parties that admired Stalin also in
the past,
participated in EC gov.s and no one give a damn.
These preconceptions shows that deep inside the so called liberals are
indeed as much FASCISTS as the NAZIs.
Deep down, WE ARE ALL RACISTS. Some more than others, but we all are.
This includes *all* skin colors and religions.
Anyone that says diferent, its a LIAR and i piss on them.
So, any boycot against Austria new gov. only because of old *words* and
only *words*,
its completly hypocritic and i piss on all that defend the boycot and at
the same
time "forget" Stalin/Mao/Cuba/China/whatever_just_because_is_leftwing
*ACTS*.
Its a fact that History is allways written by the winners.
That same History puts the winner on top of the hill and the looser
deep down in shit. The winner done it allways for good reasons,
the looser for the bad ones and he made a pretty good number of war
crimes.
Its a fact that if you win a war, everything bad that you done is
"forgiven".
Just look to this century history, the only leaders judged for war
crimes
are the loosers.
In the end, we must agree in disagree.
aix
"Amandio J.S. Bacalhau" wrote:
>
>
> was done by Germany agains the Jews,etc.
> ...and Stalin and Mao ! any of them murdered much more people than
> Hitler !
You are right! Hitler is zero vs. Stalin and Beria gang
Aix
MrB1G
them to.
2. The US Military attacked Grenada because they had taken US citizens as
hostages.
3. The US Military attacked Panama because they had taken US citizens
hostage AND were smuggling cocaine into the US AND Noriega was thumbing his
nose at our President George Bush.
There is a message in there somewhere... Hmmmm let's see what could it be...
Ahhh I got it, don't mess with US citizens overseas or you might get
attacked...
I kind of like that message myself. As my daddy used to say, "Mess with the
Bull and you're gonna get the Horns".
--
MrB1G
95 CR500
****************************************************************************
*****
Rowdy <peter....@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:38A17BDD...@gmx.net...
Dudley Cornman
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
Hey, it's not nice to call people lawyers!
dsc - acssysdsc
Rowdy
> We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
> -female
> -lawyer
> -pacifist
> -human rights activist
> -left-wing social democrat
> -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> -single mother
> -not a member of church
> -not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
Yeah, it IS time for a change.
Someone had to pose a counterweight to all those
Haiders, LePens, Buchanans or Gingrichs!
My hat is off to Finland!
Sounds like a great place to live,
except for the winter temps and the summer mosquitoes ;-)
Rowdy, stress testing his soap box
Steven Eric Romer
>dirt dejavu wrote:
>>
>> Joseph Siegfried wrote:
>>
<snip>
. I am a
>proponent of freedom.Freedom in all aspects of life not just those that
>I benifit from. Wages should be set by market forces and the relative
>value of the job being done not by some union. Btw look at what unions
>have done to Us MFG in the last 15 years.Sent it to mexico and god knows
>where else. Also getting back to the Hitler thing. The Japanese in ww11
>murdered A lot more Chinese than the Germans killed jews.Not that both
>were not bad, but you only seem to hear about the Germans not the
>Russians, Japanese, etc.
HEY ALL,
This is a phenomena I have often thought about--why all the publicity
for the German atrocities and not the greater Russian atrocities? I
think about 3 times as many were systematically murdered in Russia to
"collectivise" the nation. For political ends. All their property was
forfeited--same story as with the persecuted groups in Germany.
Murdering and looting for political ends.
In fact, it might be hard to find a country where one group or another
was NOT persecuted and even murdered at one time or another for
political ends. Even here--look at the indians, and the Japanese
Americans during WW2. The largest danger of focussing on one group as
a perpetrator of this type of behavior is that we tend to create a
group to persecute out of them instead of looking at ourselves as part
of the problem. Humankind has a long history of doing atrocious
things. It is a potential in our nature. Ignorance and fear feed this
beast. The need to control others arises out of this ignorance and
fear. To question ourselves is to show the love of truth. There is no
greater love.
The way we align our minds with culture or leaders unquestioningly is
a dangerous state of affairs built into our genes after thousands of
years of murderous tyrants and political machinations. Good thing we
are human and can question our own behaviors and their origins, eh?
Animals attack, or bees sting, when certain things happen in the
environment that trigger these responses. Humans can see through these
types of built in tendencies if they try. Walk through the valley of
the shadow of death and all... the shadow of death being the fears
and behaviors inscribed on our genes from past murderousness, and
expressed as a tendency to fear of political powers, etc. now. In an
evolutionary sense--where all features of creatures are selected for
by death--it is interesting to consider man's overwhelming fear of
political hierarchies. There have always been survival benefits from
belonging to a political system if you go along. This has affected our
brains profoundly. If you pay attention, your own brain and body can
teach you a great many things. To question is to show the love of
truth. Being human is all about the love of truth. There is no greater
love.
Let's not be so quick to point our fingers--unless of course we want
to point them at ourselves... That is the only way we can see the
full magnitude of the problematic tendencies built into our brains.
Even religions--which are supposed to "reconnect" us to higher realms
and aspirations--have been twisted into political machines and reasons
to self-aggrandize, persecute, and destroy. In my view, religions are
God's bookmarks. To save his place while he decides if humanity is
worthy of being united in his glory. Religions can remind us of great
spiritual themes and truths, but the real work in every case is done
within. It is a function of the individual will. FEAR is the root of
all evil--and is the primary wall between heaven, Nirvana, Valhalla,
Enlightenment, Zion, unity, etc. and ourselves. Fear is built into our
brains, but is a mountain that can be moved with faith and love of
truth. Pure truth--unmuddied by some half-hearted attempts at
spirituality by the fundamentally flawed throughout history. When will
humanity ever learn? When will we be worthy of leaving the prisons we
have built for ourselves. When will we see the power of belief? Soon
enough--if we can put truth above all pursuits.
Intelligence is NOT the greatest function of a human mind. It is a
tool that can be bent to both good and evil at times. What is best in
man is more spiritual and all about the ability to resist fear and
thus see truth! LOVE truth. THAT is the root of all human spiritual
striving. Compared to this, intelligence (in the popular sense of
remembering facts, solving equations) is nothing--although
intelligence can be a great tool of truth finding, and resistance to
fear.
Truth is a great solvent for the animal passions. Walls, borders, hate
and fear all dissolve in the bright light of truth. With truth, we
will no longer flail in the dark in our cultures and religions. We
will see the Pin`ata that all religions have been whacking at without
our blindfolds. We will see that the spirit is the strongest thing in
the universe--not the edifices and battlements of great political
powers.
Anyway, my 2c here is getting a bit long, and I am pretty much
thinking out loud, so I better stop. One last thing, the best thing a
person can do is to NEVER stop thinking. Always look farther even if
something rings true because you may not have found a great truth
yet--perhaps just a roadsign to it! Wouldn't it be a shame to camp out
at the city limits by a roadsign that tells of your destination, when
the journey has only just begun? Simply because the sign reminds you
of your great destination? Stay on the road to truth. "Keep going."
That is the best advice I think I could ever give anyone who is wading
through issues and theories of his day (or trying to finish an
enduro).
Happy trails!
Steve A-#1 rider in the world
94 XR650L dream cycle
Rowdy
>
> 1. The US Military only attacks a country because our President
> has ORDERED them to.
A weak excuse, so did the SS back then. They were completely innocent,
good soldiers, it's only Hitler's fault, all the others just couldn't
do better than follow orders, personally they didn't want to harm jews
or invade anybody, the public really didn't support his ideas, the
German forces were kind, and if not, the others were at least as bad,
bla, bla ,bla..
Hey, next time the nazi veterans hold one of their meetings over here,
perhaps you might want to do the support speech, now that Haider is
watched by EU and US so closely?
> 2. The US Military attacked Grenada because they had taken US
> citizens as hostages.
> 3. The US Military attacked Panama because they had taken US citizens
> hostage AND were smuggling cocaine into the US AND Noriega was thumbing
> his nose at our President George Bush.
- a couple hostages do not justify a war.
- Cocaine is bought by free americans using their free will and their
hard earned money. Panama was only filling a commercial need of US
citizens, that's called balancing demand and supply. Seems US
authorities have a problem with their citizens' way of life.
(Hi, Fro!)
- Well Bush is a Republican, isn't he? :-)
<snip>
> Ahhh I got it, don't mess with US citizens overseas or you might
> get attacked...
More like:
Screw national laws, what is right on this planet gets defined by the
US?
<snip>
> "Mess with the Bull and you're gonna get the Horns".
A sound concept, if only the bull would stick to its genuine
territory, but what's its business (no pun intended) on Pearl Harbor,
Panama, Grenada, South East Asia, Cuba or The Emirates?
BullTeaser
Pekka Hänninen
>
>Yeah, it IS time for a change.
>
>Someone had to pose a counterweight to all those
>Haiders, LePens, Buchanans or Gingrichs!
>
>My hat is off to Finland!
Funny thing is that socialist parties usually get only 1/3 of the votes in
parliamentary elections, but for the last 18 years we have had a socialist
president.
>Sounds like a great place to live,
>except for the winter temps and the summer mosquitoes ;-)
This winter has not been as cold as last year. Only in few mornings the
temps have fallen down to -20C. Last year we had long periods below -30C,
the lowest temp being -40C.
The mosquitos and gnats are not a problem, if you ride with mouth and eyes
shut.
Joseph Siegfried
Brian
Yo, SER Dirt Bike Dude
When does humanity change, not just for a few enlighten souls that understand
self
truth? I agree that truth is from within. As we survey our present world
situation
in a historical context has humanity really changed? The evil replays
itself in perpetuity. I question when will self truth become prevail to the
multitude, not just the reflective esoteric mediators.
I maintain that it never will, the control, hate, fear, cycle will continue
unabated until the end. Our individual demise or humanities the results are
the same spiritually.
In this anti-religious western culture I found your, " religion is Gods
bookmarks"
very helpful and will use it.
Brian
Do a Dew Dude
Kevin Black
discussion has zilch to do with dirt bikes and the antagonists are the same
idiots that get our riding areas closed down because of their
irresponsibility.
SO There
Rowdy
Ha! How about a swedish(?) 900cc Highland Enduro?
Neutral country, nice girls, too.
Aww shucks, i forgot their Secret Service killed their socialist
President Olaf Palme and the Police didn't investigate like they
should.
Last chance: a swiss army off road bicycle.
It's a very rugged construction: they drop it from helicopters and it
has to stay intact before you get the contract for producing for their
army.
Rowdy
Rowdy
<snip>
>
> This is a phenomena I have often thought about--why all the publicity
> for the German atrocities and not the greater Russian atrocities? I
> think about 3 times as many were systematically murdered in Russia to
> "collectivise" the nation. For political ends. All their property was
> forfeited--same story as with the persecuted groups in Germany.
> Murdering and looting for political ends.
Steven, that's an easy one:
Hitler was the first one in a 'modern western' country to kill because
he wanted them dead and gone.
All the other incidents you mentioned were done to achieve a 'higher
goal' like stealing land/wealth or suppress the opposition and
therefore were, as Amandio would put it, 'justified wars'.
Hitler just wanted to swipe a certain religious group from this earth.
They wouldn't have survived they, per his definition, couldn't
surrender or convert to his religion.
The only similar thing that i know of, was the british Governor of
Tasmania requesting (and rewarding!) the extinction of the locals.
After a decade long bounty hunters' season, they even recorded the
exact day the last Tasmanian native was executed. The first and only
completed human genocide.
One can't merely compare the number of casualties, the important thing
is the reasoning behind the killing.
HTH
Rowdy
Rowdy
<snip>
> votes in parliamentary elections, but for the last 18 years we
> have had a socialist president.
While i do like the outcome <G>, unless this 1/3 of the votes was more
than any other party received, the system seems to have a similar flaw
as the american, where the party the majority of people had voted for
not necessarily supplies the President.
A third world country, democracy wise. ;-)
Rowdy
Pekka Hänninen
>
>While i do like the outcome <G>, unless this 1/3 of the votes was more
>than any other party received, the system seems to have a similar flaw
>as the american, where the party the majority of people had voted for
>not necessarily supplies the President.
I don't see it as a flaw. The president and the parliament have different
tasks. If the president was picked out from the biggest party in parliament,
people's will would be satisfied only indirectly.
MrB1G
If you wanted one of those you could have at least drafted our Attorney
General Janet Pruno...
--
MrB1G
95 CR500
****************************************************************************
*****
Dudley Cornman <acss...@acs.eku.edu> wrote in message
news:H2K$KjtZ...@acs.eku.edu...
> > We had presidential election in Finland on sunday. And the winner is:
> > -female
> > -lawyer
> > -pacifist
> > -human rights activist
> > -left-wing social democrat
> > -ex-leader of a gay/lesbian organization
> > -single mother
> > -not a member of church
> > -not married, lives with her boyfriend
>
Jay C
> Jay C ruled out Japs,KTM,Italo bikes,ATK and CanAm:
>
> Ha! How about a swedish(?) 900cc Highland Enduro?
> Neutral country, nice girls, too.
You mean that country that just allowed women the right to vote 20 years
ago. Too PC for me! ;)
Jay
(Nice bikini team though)
Steven Eric Romer
have genetic tendencies to go along with one group or another, or to
become embroiled in a culture inextricably. Basic temperament
(including fearfulness, and other personality factors) is heavily
genetically influenced. It has been shown that even folks that work in
the same job are more genetically similar than the general population.
We certainly do not all have to be the same, and we all have different
things we are good at--all I am saying is maybe the Nazis were just
more honest and full of hubris about what they were doing. When we
were wiping out the indians, we just put it in terms of "savages and
civilized folk at war" and carried on... As I said, mankind can
rationalize just about any atrocious behavior. The reasons that are
apparent for things happening on the surface are often not real. Look
at politics. Everyone knows this about politics. It is accepted fact.
(shouldn't be) From speechwriters to spin doctors, we really don't
know what the real agendas of these people are that run our country.
All we can say for sure is that they hunger for power. That's why the
constitution and it's limits on this power is so important. First time
in history people were able to acknowledge the dangers of force and
power over others (after the Magna Carta of course) and act to
fundamentally change the location of all power to the people, which WE
dole out to the government as WE the PEOPLE see fit. This is a
monumental acheivement--greater than the pyramids in egypt or anything
before it. Thanks for the reply and happy trails!
Steve A-#1 and all...
Rowdy <peter....@gmx.net> wrote:
>Steven Eric Romer wrote:
><snip>
>> HEY ALL,
>>
>> This is a phenomena I have often thought about--why all the publicity
>> for the German atrocities and not the greater Russian atrocities? I
>> think about 3 times as many were systematically murdered in Russia to
>> "collectivise" the nation. For political ends. All their property was
>> forfeited--same story as with the persecuted groups in Germany.
>> Murdering and looting for political ends.
>
Amandio J.S. Bacalhau
Rowdy wrote:
> Steven, that's an easy one:
> Hitler was the first one in a 'modern western' country to kill because
> he wanted them dead and gone.
> All the other incidents you mentioned were done to achieve a 'higher
> goal' like stealing land/wealth or suppress the opposition and
> therefore were, as Amandio would put it, 'justified wars'.
Not true ! again, you are mixing it...or maybe its my English.
You are talking about the Leaders reasons to make a war.
I was talking about the *individual* soldiers responsibilities.
A soldier can only be responsible by its own acts.
If he kills a defendless civilian, he is a war criminal;
If he torture militars/civilians, he is a war criminal;
If he rapes, he is a war criminal; etc; etc.
However, if he simply kills enemy soldiers and/or enemy guerrillas in
combat,
he isnt a war criminal even if the its country was the 1st to start a
war.
BTW, Steven was correct:
Soviet power was the 1st one that made war crimes in large scale.
Popular belief is that the October Revolution of '17 was a true
revolution...
...not so ! Its was more like a coup d'etat, like recent KGB
documentation
revealed some time ago. After the Red Coup d'etat there was a civil
between
the Red Army and the White Army (the supporters of the Czar Family).
That civil war last for many years in which *millions* died for lack of
food
after Red Army soldiers destroyed the food of the pesants "suspected" of
supporting the White Army .
There was also plenty of slaughters of civilians "suspected" of
supporting
the White Army and executions by firing-squads or by hanging
of White Army soldiers after they surrendered.
All this is considered war crimes, all this was made by Red Army
soldiers
and Soviet Leaders.
> Hitler just wanted to swipe a certain religious group from this earth.
OTOH, before that, Soviet leaders almost exterminated several ethnic
groups
sending them to Siberia and other places in very poor conditions (w/o
food and water)
killing millions. Yeap, they havent the guts to make gas chambers and
extermination
fields like NAZIs,
they just forced them to walk w/o food and watter till they almost all
drop dead...
...and then forced the survivours to work until even more died.
<sarcasm>
What a significant diference !
</sarcasm>
I guess i was right about the 'Jealous Amateurs' syndrome ;-)
FromVentersd
Jay C <stu...@tp.net> wrote in message
news:ATXn4.32387$ox5.7...@tw11.nn.bcandid.com...
> Doug Hunter <dough...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
> news:01bf71c1$a2cc7b80$f3a294d1@default...
> > Well Hitler himself was an Austrian so I guess no one should have been
> > buying KTM's in the first place right? And our Japanese bikes? Well ask
a
> > Bataan death march survivor or Hong Kong veteran about what he thinks of
> > them! Husqvarna's are made in Italy now, and remember Moussolini?
There's
> > always a "made in USA" ATK, but not after the way the US treated the
> > American Indians? How about a late 70's CAN-AM? Of course Canadians
So go with the Swedes. HUSABERG!!!
Endurosport
I惴 from Austria and i惴 not a nazi!!!!
In Austria we don愒 kill people by law!!!!
USA do it.