KTM Clutch shavings
DirtCrashr
fifteen turns on the lever-adjuster so there was finally some slack - maybe
time for a new cable or a juice retrofit?
Drained the very-burnt smelling tranny-oil (20/50 Silkolene) and had a look at
all the whiskers on the magnetic drain-plug. Chunky and hairy! (No, I'm not
tryign to arouse Brian's mom.) Isn't this just a KTM thing I can ignore? Damn
two-strokes.
Finally got the bash-plate off too, and now needed new screws as the heads were
less for the wear and effort. TrueValue has the right size for Works
Connection skidplates.
Got some Type-Fajita ATF at NAPA and dumped it it. Ran up and down the
driveway for a warm-up, shifting gears. Notes: worked fine if a bit clunky,
shifts drop with a bang, clutch-pull ok, front tire skids on wet asphalt...
After amusing myself like that for a while I drained the first-flush ATF -
still cherry-pink and still a bit whiskery... No more burnt-smell.
The clutch-cover has a green-colored gasket material that I'm not sure if it's
re-useable or not, so I didn't rip it off and get into looking at the plates or
the clutch-side for more chunks and whiskers.
I feel a bit like a primitive man throwing bones on the ground, swirling his
finger in chicken guts, sniffing sheep-poop, trying to see the future...
Anybody have a good KTM tranny horror-story?
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Geoffrey Anderson
you have a magnetic drain plug.
Now, if there are chunks (like teeth from gears) then you have something to
get anal retentive about.
Good to see that you can lock that front tire on the wet asphalt.
The cover gasket was (probably) assembled w/o sealer, so odds are good you
could re-use it. One re-use will likely be the maximum.
Geoff
DirtCrashr <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote in message
news:20000228145924...@ng-xe1.aol.com...
DirtCrashr
>you have a magnetic drain plug.
My XR400 had a magnetic drain plug and not very much stubble ever, less
whiskery but with more consequences I think on a 4-stroke.
>Now, if there are chunks (like teeth from gears) then you have something to
>get anal retentive about.
There was a hefty bit of a chunk stuck to the tip, besides the shavings, but it
wasn't a whole tooth or even half-a-dingleberry...
>Good to see that you can lock that front tire on the wet asphalt.
Heh, sorta like unlocking the rear eh? :-)
>The cover gasket was (probably) assembled w/o sealer, so odds are good you
>could re-use it. One re-use will likely be the maximum.
Dry assembled, ok, if it's like the ignition cover it wasn't "glued" and won't
be a problem, but I'm not going to fix what doesn't appear to be broke *now*.
I'll save the unpleasant surprises untill right before a race when I really
need an excuse! :-)
>Geoff
KTM shaving gristle, arrgh-be-garrh!
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Mark Nelson
Your XR most likely had shavings too. You just couldn't see them on the
magnetic plug because they were trapped in the oil filter.
I freaked the first time I saw my KTM oil drain plug. Only after many talks
with KTM owners did I come to realize that it was the norm to see some stuff on
the plug. I wouldn't sweat it.
Everytime you wash the bike pull the ignition cover of and let it dry out. They
ALWAYS leak! After getting sick of that routine I finally drilled 2 eigth inch
holes in the bottom and lived with it. It worked good. You won't believe how
corroded a flywheel can get if you don't. :0)
Mark
'99 YZ BIG
'96 yz small
#567 OCCRA
Geoffrey Anderson
Simmonsmc <simm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000228230045...@ng-fy1.aol.com...
> Kieth ya thier all right, my 99 has the same small amount of hairs on the
drain
> plug most every time the amount seems to be directly related to how ling
the
> oil has been in there.
> one side note I dont care what everyone in here says I will not save 2 or
3
> dollars and put some grand auto oil ATF in my 6000 dollar bike I suggest
> getting some good oil (I use dumonde tech DTP synthetic) I can almost
guarantee
> you will notice a difference in the way your bike shifts, I have also had
good
> luck with Maxima MTL.
Yep, you are right When I used $8.00 a quart gear oil, it shifted heavy and
the oil still had shavings in it. Now that I use type F ATF, I have butter
smooth shifting, and I only pay 1.29 a quart.
In a 2-stroke, the gear oil ain't that important. Period. Spend the money
if you want, but it isn't going to help the engine.
In a 4-stroke, a good oil is essential though.
Geoff
> Just my opinion
> Mike Simmons
> 99 KTM 300 MXC
> AMA Dist.36
DirtCrashr
>
>Your XR most likely had shavings too. You just couldn't see them on the
>magnetic plug because they were trapped in the oil filter.
Oh so that's where they were hiding...
>I freaked the first time I saw my KTM oil drain plug. Only after many talks
>with KTM owners did I come to realize that it was the norm to see some stuff
>on the plug. I wouldn't sweat it.
Little metal chocolate chips...Ok I won't freak, and that's the word I was
getting elsewhere - but why no strainer-screen at least?
>Everytime you wash the bike pull the ignition cover of and let it dry out.
>They
>ALWAYS leak! After getting sick of that routine I finally drilled 2 eigth
>inch
>holes in the bottom and lived with it. It worked good.
Me and Geoff filled the clutch-cable-thingy inlet hole with RTV and jammed the
cable back in there which seems to help a lot.
We ride in the wet when we can so I figured on having to take it off and clean
it every ride as normal maint. Hadn't thought about drilling a hole and makign
it less water-tight :-)
> You won't believe how
>corroded a flywheel can get if you don't. :0)
Woo-hoo, is your all yellowish-brown with white spots and covered with
mold-like rust-growth?
I was thinking of starting the bike up and putting a wirebrush on that part
while it spun, or a wire-brush on the end of my drill might be safer.
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Mark Nelson
I don't know how you would use a strainer screen on a 2 stroke gear box. The
oil is only splashed around. If it was pressurized you could do it. I think the
magnet is the only way to do it.
>Little metal chocolate chips...Ok I won't freak, and that's the word I was
>getting elsewhere - but why no strainer-screen at least?
The holes let the water drain out and dry. I figured if it didn't work I could
always plug it with RTV but never did. It seemed to work. I think old husky's
had drain holes too.
>
>Me and Geoff filled the clutch-cable-thingy inlet hole with RTV and jammed
>the
>cable back in there which seems to help a lot.
>We ride in the wet when we can so I figured on having to take it off and
>clean
>it every ride as normal maint. Hadn't thought about drilling a hole and
>makign
>it less water-tight :-)
Simmonsmc
plug most every time the amount seems to be directly related to how ling the
oil has been in there.
one side note I dont care what everyone in here says I will not save 2 or 3
dollars and put some grand auto oil ATF in my 6000 dollar bike I suggest
getting some good oil (I use dumonde tech DTP synthetic) I can almost guarantee
you will notice a difference in the way your bike shifts, I have also had good
luck with Maxima MTL.
David Jones
>Keith
>
>Your XR most likely had shavings too. You just couldn't see them on the
>magnetic plug because they were trapped in the oil filter.
>
>I freaked the first time I saw my KTM oil drain plug. Only after many talks
>with KTM owners did I come to realize that it was the norm to see some stuff on
>the plug. I wouldn't sweat it.
>
>Everytime you wash the bike pull the ignition cover of and let it dry out. They
>ALWAYS leak! After getting sick of that routine I finally drilled 2 eigth inch
>holes in the bottom and lived with it. It worked good. You won't believe how
>corroded a flywheel can get if you don't. :0)
Both the guys I ride with who have the 97 250s have problems with
water under the ign cover. My 99 200 has always been dry as a bone,
and seeing their problems I checked mine often.
<snip>
>Mark
David
Email: djo...@cyberhighway.net
Home of the "The Very Unofficial RMD Page"
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~djones/
David Jones
wrote:
>>>Keith
>>
>>Your XR most likely had shavings too. You just couldn't see them on the
>>magnetic plug because they were trapped in the oil filter.
>
>Oh so that's where they were hiding...
>
>>I freaked the first time I saw my KTM oil drain plug. Only after many talks
>>with KTM owners did I come to realize that it was the norm to see some stuff
>>on the plug. I wouldn't sweat it.
>
>Little metal chocolate chips...Ok I won't freak, and that's the word I was
>getting elsewhere - but why no strainer-screen at least?
No pump? It's just a slosh feed system in there..........Chuck-A-Rama
as it were.......
<snip>
>DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
MXOldtimer
>and seeing their problems I checked mine often.
I drilled a small 1/16 hole on the bottom of my ign. after the ign. went sour
due to water on my 300. My 200 never had a water problem until a couple weeks
ago, the little limp rubber gasket dropped down the last time I installed the
cover and I got quite abit of water in the ign. so I got out the drill and
drilled the 200. Watch that gasket.
Doug
Mike Baxter
> one side note I dont care what everyone in here says I will not save 2 or 3
> dollars and put some grand auto oil ATF in my 6000 dollar bike I suggest
> getting some good oil (I use dumonde tech DTP synthetic) I can almost guarantee
> you will notice a difference in the way your bike shifts, I have also had good
> luck with Maxima MTL.
> Just my opinion
I can honor that. However, I have used ATF since the first oil change on my 1997
YZ250 and so far, I'm still on the stock clutch plates which measured in the middle
of the service range last time I checked. I have used oil twice. My bike shift
like a typical YZ250. If I run the ATF for more than 2 rides it get's a really
clunky. The oil only took about 1 hour to achive the really clunky notchy
shifting.
I have filed my clutch basket once and it needs to be replaced. However, this is a
universal Yamaha problem.
BTW Mike, When are we gonna meet and ride!
--
Mike Baxter
Dudley Cornman
> My XR400 had a magnetic drain plug and not very much stubble ever, less
> whiskery but with more consequences I think on a 4-stroke.
Your XR400 also has a very good paper oil filter that would catch and
hold alot of the whisker forming particles...
dsc - acssysdsc
DirtCrashr
>hold alot of the whisker forming particles...
>
>dsc - acssysdsc
Yes that's a good point, and I lked having it too. It makes me wonder why
there's not some kind of screen or something at least for catching the bigger
whiskers.
One of the chunky pieces was the size of this "D" including quotation marks,
and folded in around the edges where it had been beaten to a smaller size.
Maybe as thick as the "n" without the quotes...
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Simmonsmc
the wild boar on the 12th! look for the old bald guy!
DirtCrashr
>No pump? It's just a slosh feed system in there..........Chuck-A-Rama
>as it were.......
>
>David
>Email: djo...@cyberhighway.net
Ok I get it now, it's "elegant simplicity" as a sophisticated engineering
solution :-)
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Mike Baxter
OK, I'll be a the Wild Boar also. I'm skipping the Hare Scramble. I'm gonna take
Steven Bobic ridding this weekend.
--
Mike Baxter
Dudley Cornman
> Keith
>
> I don't know how you would use a strainer screen on a 2 stroke gear box. The
> oil is only splashed around. If it was pressurized you could do it. I think the
> magnet is the only way to do it.
XR200's have screens... they just splash the oil around too... don't
they?
dsc - acssysdsc
Rot 13
No, they have pumps. No filter though, just a screen.
"Spash lubrication" for four-strokes is only for lawnmower engines.
Jim Hall
>One of the chunky pieces was the size of this "D" including quotation marks,
>and folded in around the edges where it had been beaten to a smaller size.
>Maybe as thick as the "n" without the quotes...
Shouldn't have that.
Pull the clutch side cover and look around a bit. Pay attention to the
kickstart bits and pieces.
Jim Hall
380 EXC and others
turning Money into Noise...
Thank you Big Joe's Cycle; Plateau Engineering
DirtCrashr
>due to water on my 300.
You mean the cover right? Just on the bottom part?
Were you concerned that water might get up into it during creek or other water
crossings or washings, or is the benefit of drainage so much greater? Curious.
-k '97ktm300mxc
DirtCrashr
>>and folded in around the edges where it had been beaten to a smaller size.
>>Maybe as thick as the "n" without the quotes...
>
>Shouldn't have that.
Thanks!
Yeh it was kinda one helluva a whisker!
>Pull the clutch side cover and look around a bit. Pay attention to the
>kickstart bits and pieces.
To see if there is corresponding missing bits?
Probably I should I do it before I go riding again huh?
Are they easily visible underneath the clutch-cover or di I need to ynak the
clutch pack?
I ~REALLY~ really need to get a KTM workshop manual, the booklets you get with
the bike are great and all, but they don't offer an inside look...Know anywhere
to get 'em?
>Jim Hall
>380 EXC and others
>turning Money into Noise...
>
>Thank you Big Joe's Cycle; Plateau Engineering
Thanks Jim,
-keith
Wesley Grass
--
The XR200 has a centrifugal filter on the end of the primary drive side of the
crank. Oil is routed in and out of it through the side cover before it heads
for the crank. It's a pretty strange system, but you'd be surprised how much
garbage they collect over time.
Wes
Wesley Grass
|> dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud (DirtCrashr) wrote:
|>
|> >One of the chunky pieces was the size of this "D" including quotation marks,
|> >and folded in around the edges where it had been beaten to a smaller size.
|> >Maybe as thick as the "n" without the quotes...
|>
|> Shouldn't have that.
|>
|> kickstart bits and pieces.
|>
|>
--
Sounds a little odd to me too. Did it look like it had been hammered flat,
real smooth and shiny all over? That's a good sign it's been through the gears.
You may never figure out where it came from though, until .................
If it were a Beta, I could tell you exactly where it came from, and exactly
what it would cost to fix.
Wes
Wesley Grass
--
If you stick a glass upside down into water, does the water go inside? The
trapped air keeps it out, right? Of course, if the air's hot, and splashing
through the water cools the cases off, making the air contract ........... well,
hmm ......... oh well, it oughta get forced back out when the cases heat back
up, right?
Wes
Jim Hall
>>Pull the clutch side cover and look around a bit. Pay attention to the
>>kickstart bits and pieces.
>
>To see if there is corresponding missing bits?
>Probably I should I do it before I go riding again huh?
Yeah, I would. Also check out the clutch basket, plates and primary
gears. It could be a bit from inside the gear case, but my guess is
that it came out of the primary side somewhere.
>Are they easily visible underneath the clutch-cover or di I need to ynak the
>clutch pack?
To check everything out, you may need to ynak the whole clutch. There
is a special ynak-ynak tool to do this...<g>
Bianca's clutch basket disintegrated in her quad a couple of weeks
ago. Lots and lots of potmetal clutch basket bits all chewed up in
the gears. Luckily the basket is much softer than the gears, or it
would have been real spendy. As it is, she has a new Hinson basket.
And a new blown top end as of a week ago.....
>I ~REALLY~ really need to get a KTM workshop manual, the booklets you get with
>the bike are great and all, but they don't offer an inside look...Know anywhere
>to get 'em?
Not offhand. Check the KTM shops recommended online here. Seems to me
that my 380 came with a somewhat decent reference with some nice
exploded diagrams of everything.
DirtCrashr
>real smooth and shiny all over?
Flat yes with edges turned under and hammered flat, but not exactly shiny and
smooth all over.
>That's a good sign it's been through the gears.
Ok, it doesn't look like it's been sheared off but pounded a bit.
>You may never figure out where it came from though, until .................
I'm taking the cover off and having a look, which might mean no riding this
weekend... Dang!
>If it were a Beta, I could tell you exactly where it came from, and exactly
>what it would cost to fix.
>
>Wes
And how long...?
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
DirtCrashr
>Yeah, I would. Also check out the clutch basket, plates and primary
>gears. It could be a bit from inside the gear case, but my guess is
>that it came out of the primary side somewhere.
<snip>
>To check everything out, you may need to ynak the whole clutch. There
>is a special ynak-ynak tool to do this...<g>
I have a Unoi-versal Ynak-Ynak Vise-Grip tool, which should be good for bending
and rounding things off too!
>Bianca's clutch basket disintegrated in her quad a couple of weeks
>ago. Lots and lots of potmetal clutch basket bits all chewed up in
>the gears. Luckily the basket is much softer than the gears, or it
>would have been real spendy. As it is, she has a new Hinson basket.
>And a new blown top end as of a week ago.....
Ah!! The wonderful world of exotic two-strokes where clutch baskets are
considered mearly consumables. File 'em down a couple times and then toss. So
*that's* where they hide the powerbands, in the basket! :-)
Does the mild-power diesel-pig four-stroke with oil-filter and strainer allow
clutch baskets to work so much longer?
>>I ~REALLY~ really need to get a KTM workshop manual, <snip>
>Not offhand. Check the KTM shops recommended online here. Seems to me
>that my 380 came with a somewhat decent reference with some nice
>exploded diagrams of everything.
I have those "exploded" drawings (cue sinster music dum-de-dum-dumm...perhaps a
literary *foreshadowing* ??) with part-numbers and all, but there are very few
torque specs except in a kind of index. Spodely needs numbers and arrows :-)
>Jim Hall
>380 EXC and others
>turning Money into Noise...
>
>Thank you Big Joe's Cycle; Plateau Engineering
And thanks Jim!
-k '97ktm300mxc
Mark Nelson
I drilled mine in the bottom of the case near the ignition cover gasket. You
would have to be upside down to get much water in there. Then that would be the
least of your problems. :0) It allowed the water to drain to the lowest point
when on the stand or kick stand. It also keeps you from having to explain the
hole all the time. :0)
Also, once you get your fly wheel all clean you might want to spray it with a
clear varnish to help prevent future rust. The electrons can still penetrate
the coating.
Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every time
you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider it a
KTM thing. I figue if he sells them and gave up, I would too.
Good luck
>>I drilled a small 1/16 hole on the bottom of my ign. after the ign. went
>sour
>>due to water on my 300.
>
>You mean the cover right? Just on the bottom part?
>Were you concerned that water might get up into it during creek or other
>water
>crossings or washings, or is the benefit of drainage so much greater?
>Curious.
>
>-k '97ktm300mxc
>
Mark Nelson
In the front of the KTM manuals they give you torque specs based on the bolt
size. If the bolt in question has a different value than the "standard" torque
value it's listed in the R&R of the item. Hope this helps you out some.
Mark Nelson
I dont think so. They have to send the oil to the valve train and the rod and
crank bearings. It would be awful hard to splash it that far up and around
things. It might splash the bottom of the piston for coolil though.
>c5flt...@aol.com (Mark Nelson) writes:
>> Keith
>>
>> I don't know how you would use a strainer screen on a 2 stroke gear box.
>The
>> oil is only splashed around. If it was pressurized you could do it. I think
>the
>> magnet is the only way to do it.
>
>XR200's have screens... they just splash the oil around too... don't
>they?
>
>dsc - acssysdsc
MVCronk
"DirtCrashr" <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote in
message
news:20000229143537...@ng-xe1.aol.com.
..
| >I drilled a small 1/16 hole on the bottom of my
ign. after the ign. went sour
| >due to water on my 300.
|
| You mean the cover right? Just on the bottom
part?
| Were you concerned that water might get up into
it during creek or other water
| crossings or washings, or is the benefit of
drainage so much greater? Curious.
Try blowing in a coke bottle - get any more air
in? :-)
PS: this arguement is invalid if the bike is on
its side or upside down - and under water <g>
Mark 'drilled it good' Cronk
|
| -k '97ktm300mxc
Rot 13
DirtCrashr <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote:
>>If it were a Beta, I could tell you exactly where it came from, and exactly
>>what it would cost to fix.
>>
>>Wes
>
>And how long...?
That's easy-
1 day to figure out how to take the bike apart (most of that time is
figuring out the order to remove the bolts that hold the rear suspension
together, it's like one of those puzzles where you slide the blocks
around 47 times to get one block from one side to the other and of course
there's no manual-- manuals are for wimps and riders of Japanese bikes).
2 weeks for the parts to come from Cosmopolitan.
1 week to send the wrong parts back.
another two weeks for the right parts to come from Cosmo.
Another day to put it all back together, half of which is
doing the rear suspension puzzle bit again because you forgot
to take notes and it's been a month since you looked at it last.
Fortunately Betas don't break very often.
Simmonsmc
just for the record 2 strokes dont have valves and the rod and main bearing are
lubricated from the oil in the fuel not the tranny
Simmonsmc
to get the oil up to the top end!
Sorry
Wesley Grass
|> DirtCrashr <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote:
|> >>If it were a Beta, I could tell you exactly where it came from, and exactly
|> >>what it would cost to fix.
|> >>
|> >>Wes
|> >
|> >And how long...?
|>
|> That's easy-
|>
|> 1 day to figure out how to take the bike apart (most of that time is
|> figuring out the order to remove the bolts that hold the rear suspension
|> together, it's like one of those puzzles where you slide the blocks
|> around 47 times to get one block from one side to the other and of course
|> there's no manual-- manuals are for wimps and riders of Japanese bikes).
Suspension wasn't a problem ............. the friggin' wiring was!
|> 2 weeks for the parts to come from Cosmopolitan.
Actually, Cosmo's out of the picture. C&G is the new US importer.
|> 1 week to send the wrong parts back.
|>
|> another two weeks for the right parts to come from Cosmo.
The only parts delay I had was getting the ambition to take the thing apart,
and getting around to ordering the parts. If I would have put my ass in gear,
I could have had the thing running in a week, even with the milling I had to
do to get the cylinder to fit the new left case (they had the studs a little
off).
|> Another day to put it all back together, half of which is
|> doing the rear suspension puzzle bit again because you forgot
|> to take notes and it's been a month since you looked at it last.
Well, sorta ............ but I did test ride it with wires hanging out ;-)
I almost had to ride it over to a friend's house across the canyon, and copy
the routing on his.
|> Fortunately Betas don't break very often.
--
The new case looks a lot stronger. Still, my fingers are crossed.
Wes
Mark Nelson
I think you miss read it. Look again. :0)
>>Dudley
>>
>>I dont think so. They have to send the oil to the valve train and the rod
>and
>>crank bearings. It would be awful hard to splash it that far up and around
>>things. It might splash the bottom of the piston for cooling though.
>>
>>>c5flt...@aol.com (Mark Nelson) writes:
>>>> Keith
>>>>
>>>> I don't know how you would use a strainer screen on a 2 stroke gear box.
>>>The
>>>> oil is only splashed around. If it was pressurized you could do it. I
>>think
>>>the
>>>> magnet is the only way to do it.
>>>
>>>XR200's have screens... they just splash the oil around too... don't
>>>they?
>>>
>>>dsc - acssysdsc
>>Mark
>>'99 YZ BIG
>>'96 yz small
>>#567 OCCRA
>>
>just for the record 2 strokes dont have valves and the rod and main bearing
>are
>lubricated from the oil in the fuel not the tranny
>Mike Simmons
>99 KTM 300 MXC
>AMA Dist.36
Mark Nelson
Your forgiven. I'm a little educated on the subject. <VBG>
>WOOPS I think your talking about the XR 200 yes it does have some sort of
>pump
>to get the oil up to the top end!
>
>Sorry
Marty Wicks
> >> Keith
> >>
> >> I don't know how you would use a strainer screen on a 2 stroke gear box. The
> >> oil is only splashed around. If it was pressurized you could do it. I think the
> >> magnet is the only way to do it.
> >
> >XR200's have screens... they just splash the oil around too... don't
> >they?
>
> "Spash lubrication" for four-strokes is only for lawnmower engines.
or pre '99 or '98 Husqvarna thumpers
Cheers,
Marty
'98 KTM 250EGS
Marty Wicks
>
> Keith
>
> I drilled mine in the bottom of the case near the ignition cover gasket. You
> would have to be upside down to get much water in there. Then that would be the
> least of your problems. :0) It allowed the water to drain to the lowest point
> when on the stand or kick stand. It also keeps you from having to explain the
> hole all the time. :0)
>
> Also, once you get your fly wheel all clean you might want to spray it with a
> clear varnish to help prevent future rust. The electrons can still penetrate
> the coating.
>
> Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every time
> you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider it a
> KTM thing. I figue if he sells them and gave up, I would too.
I had this problem with my '97 KTM 400SC.. the stator rusted out. I was
told (after forking out $300 for a newie) that I should've been taking
off the cover every once in a while, allowing things to dry out and to
spray some WD-40 around things. It had a drain, but it was clogged.
I now regularly check my 250
Dudley Cornman
> Dudley
>
> I dont think so. They have to send the oil to the valve train and the rod and
> crank bearings. It would be awful hard to splash it that far up and around
Someone else said they had some kind of pump. I dunno...
dsc - acssysdsc
Dudley Cornman
>
> Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every time
> you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider it a
> KTM thing. I figue if he sells them and gave up, I would too.
I know it is generally frowned upon by all mechanics, but I can't
imagine that you couldn't seal it if you used a little RTV silicone on
each side of the gasket...
dsc - acssysdsc
Mark Nelson
I don't know where the moisture would come from. I RTV'd the crap out of the
seal, ignition wires, clutch cable. You name it, I slathered it in RTV. I would
still accumulate water in there. Maybe it was coming from the tranny side
through the clutch actuation rod hole. I don't know. It seemed like too much to
be condensation to me.
Another thing for Keith to think about when spraying a bunch of clutch cable
lube on the cable is it runs into the ignition housing and stays there if
sealed up good. I remember opening it up once and having a lot of WD-40 and
Chain Wax in there.
>In article <20000229173820...@ng-xe1.aol.com>, c5flt...@aol.com
>(Mark Nelson) writes:
>>
>> Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every
>time
>> you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider it
>a
>> KTM thing. I figure if he sells them and gave up, I would too.
>
Dudley wrote:
>I know it is generally frowned upon by all mechanics, but I can't
>imagine that you couldn't seal it if you used a little RTV silicone on
>each side of the gasket...
>
>dsc - acssysdsc
>
Mark Nelson
That was Wes Grass talking about the XR200 4 stroke I believe. The 2 strokes
don't work that way.
A two stroke gearbox is lubricated on thesplash oil around method. The engine
is lubricated from oil mixed with the gas. A four stroke circulates the oil
through the engine via an oil pump(s) Much like a car does.
>> Dudley
>>
>> I dont think so. They have to send the oil to the valve train and the rod
>and
>> crank bearings. It would be awful hard to splash it that far up and around
>> things. It might splash the bottom of the piston for coolil though.
>
>Someone else said they had some kind of pump. I dunno...
>
ted
Ted
Marty Wicks <bo...@qonline.com.au> wrote in message
news:38BCF530...@qonline.com.au...
> Mark Nelson wrote:
> >
> > Keith
> >
> > I drilled mine in the bottom of the case near the ignition cover gasket.
You
> > would have to be upside down to get much water in there. Then that would
be the
> > least of your problems. :0) It allowed the water to drain to the lowest
point
> > when on the stand or kick stand. It also keeps you from having to
explain the
> > hole all the time. :0)
> >
> > Also, once you get your fly wheel all clean you might want to spray it
with a
> > clear varnish to help prevent future rust. The electrons can still
penetrate
> > the coating.
> >
> > Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every
time
> > you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider
it a
Simmonsmc
>imagine that you couldn't seal it if you used a little RTV silicone on
>each side of the gasket...
>
something I've done is use a little grease on both (or one really) sides of the
gasket, it seals very well and will allow you to remove it anytime without
damaging the gasket.
Mark Nelson
Consider yourself one of the fortunate ones!
Mark
>Every time I have checked mine (96 259 EXC), it has been perfectly dry!
>
>Ted
>
>> > Mark Zoller of Z-Racing was the one who told me to pull the cover every
>time
>> > you clean it. He said that most will never seal right and just consider
>it a
>> > KTM thing. I figue if he sells them and gave up, I would too.
>>
>> I had this problem with my '97 KTM 400SC.. the stator rusted out. I was
>> told (after forking out $300 for a newie) that I should've been taking
>> off the cover every once in a while, allowing things to dry out and to
>> spray some WD-40 around things. It had a drain, but it was clogged.
>>
>> I now regularly check my 250
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marty
>> '98 KTM 250EGS
>
>
>
>
Mark
#567 OCCRA
MXOldtimer
Hummmmmmmmmmmmm
Doug
Dudley Cornman
> Dudley
>
> I don't know where the moisture would come from. I RTV'd the crap out of the
> seal, ignition wires, clutch cable. You name it, I slathered it in RTV. I would
> still accumulate water in there. Maybe it was coming from the tranny side
> through the clutch actuation rod hole. I don't know. It seemed like too much to
> be condensation to me.
>
> Another thing for Keith to think about when spraying a bunch of clutch cable
> lube on the cable is it runs into the ignition housing and stays there if
> sealed up good. I remember opening it up once and having a lot of WD-40 and
> Chain Wax in there.
WD-40 (Water Displacement-40) probably won't hurt anything and may
actually be good for it. I'd avoid the chain wax for cable lubing
though...
Seems like the clutch cable entrance should incorporate an o-ring
(assuming it doesn't) to help keep water out...
dsc - acssysdsc
Dudley Cornman
> don't work that way.
>
dsc - acssysdsc
Dudley Cornman
>>I know it is generally frowned upon by all mechanics, but I can't
>>imagine that you couldn't seal it if you used a little RTV silicone on
>>each side of the gasket...
>>
>
> something I've done is use a little grease on both (or one really) sides of the
> gasket, it seals very well and will allow you to remove it anytime without
> damaging the gasket.
That's teh main reason I use the RTV. It keeps paper gaskets from
sticking and it just peels off the parts.
dsc - acssysdsc
DirtCrashr
Clutch-side/transmission side:
I got the clutch cover off and the plates out and everything looked pretty good
- not glazed-over or blackened at least. The basket had some light marks of
where the plates rested but no notching or feel of indentations - the fingers
felt smooth and the plates slid back and forth ok.
I couldn't get the hub-nut off.
Using my Motion Pro universal clutch-bashing vise-grip rounder-offer tool I
held the basket and slipped a 22mm nut on the end of a 24-inch braker bar with
a the half-inch drive - and couldn't move the nut.
Instead the Universal Tool slipped with a bang and took out a gouge or two on
the basket though I filed the dings smooth.
Also with a torque setting of 110 or so on the nut and my wrench only going up
to 80 I wouldn't be able to "properly" put it back on, once I got it off until
I bought a bigger torque wrench. But first I had to get it off and I just
couldn't. I didn't want to risk (further and likely) damage to the basket so I
stopped what I was doing.
So, no go on the clutch hub nut, so I don't know what the transmission behind
it looks like, but there's not much stubble or chunkiness in the ATF I dumped
out... Ignorance is bliss. I put the clutch back together and torqued
everything down properly, and put the cover back where it belongs, and the
clutch safely beyond my reach :-) For now anyhow.
Onto the flywheel and ignition cover-side:
I don't lube my cable with chain wax, I use Tri-Flo and there was evidence of a
goodly pool down in there under the ignition cover the first time I went to
check last month - also some other unidentifiable greenish-brown glop.
Geoff and I spooged RTV over and into the hole where the Clutch cable goes into
the cover (no o-ring) and that seemed to help a lot after the extremely wet
Quicksilver ride, and washing and every thing.
After removing the cover I hosed the brown rust and dirt down with
brakecleaner. I got the flyhweel nut off, since it's only a measly 40-lbs
torque, and had to clean out the insides to get at the inside threads.
At first it didn' look like there were any threads because there was so much
mud-rust fillig the cavity, but I got it cleaned so I could thread-in the KTM
flywheel puller I bought for $17.95 at Zoom.
The threads were wrong. Since it's a '97 I don't know, maybe they went to
Japanese-style fine-threads that year...
It is a reverse thread right?
At least I washed it down real good and cleaned off the flywheel. I had the
bike in neutral and revving it while I held a wire brush against the spinning
flywheel and sprayed WD40 on it too. Now it's a metal color again.
Unable to remove the flywheel also meant that I couldn't drill weep-holes from
the inside at an angle that appealed to me, and with the bash-plate's little
ears on the botom sticking out I couldn't come at it from the outside either...
Nevermind it's easy to get the cover on and off and the silicone we spooged up
around the cable entry seems to keep it pretty dry. I'd like to clean out the
rust and mud and muck from the inside of the flywheel and polish it up proper
all around.
I need to get a puller that actually works with the threads, maybe I'll take
the dan bike with me next time in the back of the truck so I can see how the
applications match-up.
So, so far so good!! We're having fun here.
k '97ktm300mxc
Mark Nelson
Chain wax works great for lubing cables. It's even on the can for such use. It
works much better than WD-40 or any other oil.
There is an "O" ring on the cable housing. I RTV'd it out of desperation.
>WD-40 (Water Displacement-40) probably won't hurt anything and may
>actually be good for it. I'd avoid the chain wax for cable lubing
>though...
>
>Seems like the clutch cable entrance should incorporate an o-ring
>(assuming it doesn't) to help keep water out...
>
>dsc - acssysdsc
>
Mark
#567 OCCRA
Wesley Grass
|>
|> <snip familiar story about clutch holding tool>
|>
|> Onto the flywheel and ignition cover-side:
|>
|> I don't lube my cable with chain wax, I use Tri-Flo and there was evidence of a
|> goodly pool down in there under the ignition cover the first time I went to
|> check last month - also some other unidentifiable greenish-brown glop.
Yummy.
|> Unable to remove the flywheel also meant that I couldn't drill weep-holes from
|> the inside at an angle that appealed to me, and with the bash-plate's little
|> ears on the botom sticking out I couldn't come at it from the outside either.
|>
|> k '97ktm300mxc
--
I may be wrong, but I think the idea was to drill the hole in the cover, and
not the main case?
Wes
Jim Hall
>Also with a torque setting of 110 or so on the nut and my wrench only going up
>to 80 I wouldn't be able to "properly" put it back on, once I got it off until
>I bought a bigger torque wrench. But first I had to get it off and I just
>couldn't. I didn't want to risk (further and likely) damage to the basket so I
>stopped what I was doing.
Think about purchasing a hammer impact driver for about 20 bucks or
so. Then all you have to do it toss the special Motion Pro tool, snick
the bike into gear, and beat on the impact driver with a big hammer
four or five times.
I would likely put the nut on the same way, and not mess with the
torque reading.
Jim Hall
380 EXC and others
turning Money into Noise...
Thank you Big Joe's Cycle; Plateau Engineering
Dudley Cornman
What are you doing for a gasket... reusing, new one or RTV?
dsc - acssysdsc
Dorothy
DirtCrashr wrote:
> Onto the flywheel and ignition cover-side:
>
> At least I washed it down real good and cleaned off the flywheel. I had the
> bike in neutral and revving it while I held a wire brush against the spinning
> flywheel and sprayed WD40 on it too. Now it's a metal color again.
Keith, I'm proud of you, excellent problem solving skills. I hoped you
held a match to the WD to help dry things out also. I would suggest
that running the bike with the cover off and holding a wire brush to the
flywheel could be dangerous. The wire brush could somehow turn
into a projectile. We had a mechanic at our shop adjusting the timing on a bike
when it was running. The screw driver some how propelled itself
into his eye. Lucky for him that God had the foresight to give us two eyes.
I don't allow any work done on the ignition or flywheel anymore with the engine
running. Instead to clean and remove rust from the flywheel we now use
a belt sander. The belt sander spins the flywheel the same as if the engine
was running. I require safety goggles also, because sometimes those little
welded on pieces of metal on the flywheel, that seem to serve no purpose, fly off.
Dorothy
DirtCrashr
>from
>|> the inside at an angle that appealed to me, and with the bash-plate's
>little
>|> ears on the botom sticking out I couldn't come at it from the outside
>either.
>|>
>|> k '97ktm300mxc
>
>--
>I may be wrong, but I think the idea was to drill the hole in the cover, and
>not the main case?
>
>Wes
Uh, that might work as well, but via-email both c5fltengnr-Mark and
MXOldtimer-Doug said they did it in the lowest part, through the case
actually...
One report is that Honda drilled the cases for weep-holes on purpose because of
water ingestion.
Anyhow, my cleaning/drying routing should be sufficient.
-k '97ktm300mxc
DirtCrashr
>so. Then all you have to do it toss the special Motion Pro tool, snick
>the bike into gear, and beat on the impact driver with a big hammer
>four or five times.
I do have one of those, I guess I need a bigger hammer is all, and maybe an
impact-proof 22mm socket...
When I had the bike in gear to hold it still, turning the dangerous Pro-Motion
tool resulted in bike motion back and forth...Should I put it in 6th gear?
>I would likely put the nut on the same way, and not mess with the
>torque reading.
That's similar advice I got last night, It'll probably tighten itself up
anyhow, right?
>Jim Hall
>380 EXC and others
Thanks Jim and y'all, it's been fun! Just don't bring a camera round when I'm
wrenching :-)
-k '97ktm300mxc
Wesley Grass
|> dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud (DirtCrashr) wrote:
|>
|> >Also with a torque setting of 110 or so on the nut and my wrench only going up
|> >to 80 I wouldn't be able to "properly" put it back on, once I got it off until
|> >I bought a bigger torque wrench. But first I had to get it off and I just
|> >couldn't. I didn't want to risk (further and likely) damage to the basket so I
|> >stopped what I was doing.
|>
|> so. Then all you have to do it toss the special Motion Pro tool, snick
|> the bike into gear, and beat on the impact driver with a big hammer
|> four or five times.
|>
|> torque reading.
|>
|>
--
That might be really hard on the mainshaft bearings. A real pneumatic impact
wrench is the way to go, lacking a decent tool to hold the clutch hub.
Wes
Jay C
> Using my Motion Pro universal clutch-bashing vise-grip rounder-offer tool
I
> held the basket and slipped a 22mm nut on the end of a 24-inch braker bar
with
> a the half-inch drive - and couldn't move the nut.
> Instead the Universal Tool slipped with a bang and took out a gouge or two
on
> the basket though I filed the dings smooth.
Do yourself a favor - if you are dead set against buying an air compressor,
buy yourself an electric impact wrench... about $100 from Sears or Home
Depot or wherever. You're gonna need one when you rip apart your forks the
next time anyway.
Jay
DirtCrashr
>
>dsc - acssysdsc
On the ignition-cover I'm just reusing the original one. The weak point (that
Gander pointed out from his '97KTM360 was the clutch-cable entry ferrule...
-k
DirtCrashr
>spinning
>Keith, I'm proud of you, excellent problem solving skills. I hoped you
>held a match to the WD to help dry things out also.
Uh-oh. Damn good idea! That would have gotten the excess muck and
rust-goobers behind the flywheel - but I forgot. :-(
<SAFETY WARNING STICKERS>
>I would suggest
>that running the bike with the cover off and holding a wire brush to the
>flywheel could be dangerous. The wire brush could somehow turn
>into a projectile. We had a mechanic at our shop adjusting the timing on a
>bike
>when it was running. The screw driver some how propelled itself
>into his eye. Lucky for him that God had the foresight to give us two eyes.
<SAFETY WARNING STICKERS>
I was going to use a chisel against the flywheel rust, but couldn't find one
small enough...
<SAFETY WARNING STICKERS>
Alternatively I was going to chuck up a wire cup-brush in my 3/8" drill, but
since I had the bike out I wanted to see if the clutch was working...
<SAFETY WARNING STICKERS>
Fortunately I was standing above and behind it and holding the brush away from
the direction of rotation so it scrubbed the going-away side...
<SAFETY WARNING STICKERS>
>I don't allow any work done on the ignition or flywheel anymore with the
>engine
>running. Instead to clean and remove rust from the flywheel we now use
>a belt sander. The belt sander spins the flywheel the same as if the engine
>was running.
I got's me a belt sander, but one of the issues was that I didn't want to
damage the magnetic properties of the weight ( ? ) and thought a wire-brush
would be the least invasive - to the flywheel.
Also I've left over-enthusiastic, good-sized belt-sander grooves in stuff
before, including the belt sander itself... Don't ask.
But again I didn't think of the belt sander and would need to run out and some
new belts too.
>I require safety goggles also, because sometimes those little
>welded on pieces of metal on the flywheel, that seem to serve no purpose, fly
>off.
My 20/500 perscription-lensed glasses generally have lots of divots in them by
the time I need a new pair :-)
Maybe I should be more worried about my exposed forehead. Picking tool-things
out of the cranium can be equally bad, and a backwards ball-cap doesn't prevent
much high-velocity penetration.
>Dorothy
Dorothy dearest darling, your demonstrations get me ~HOT~.
I really do apreciate being the safety-dummy example in this lecture, KIDS
DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!
Do as I say not as I do, do do the Dew though.
DewCrewWannabee - '97ktm300mxc
MVCronk
"DirtCrashr" <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote in
message
..
In such an involved and convoluted thread, it was
only a matter of time before someone stepped over
the line. Dirtcrashr gets the geeky word of day
award for the ingenious use of "ferrule".
Damn fine effort Keith! <G>
Mark
I had to look it up........
|
| -k
Wesley Grass
|>
|> Dirtcrashr gets the geeky word of day
|> award for the ingenious use of "ferrule".
|>
|> Damn fine effort Keith! <G>
|>
|> Mark
|>
|> I had to look it up........
--
fer·rule A metal ring or cap placed around a pole or shaft for reinforcement
or to prevent splitting. 2. A bushing used to secure a pipe joint.
As opposed to:
fe·ral Existing in a wild or untamed state. b. Having returned to an untamed
state from domestication. 2. Of or suggestive of a wild animal; savage
A good description of the average RMD'r, I'd say.
Wes
Uwe Hale
> When I had the bike in gear to hold it still, turning the dangerous Pro-Motion
> tool resulted in bike motion back and forth...Should I put it in 6th gear?
Yes, top gear and stick a long extension through the rear sprocket and across
the swingarm for flywheel stuff with the clutch still together.
For the clutch nut, stick a rag in the gear.
Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250
http://www.rrdr.org
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
Rot 13
DirtCrashr <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote:
>After further and varous work attempts here's the on-going story.
>Clutch-side/transmission side:
>
>I got the clutch cover off and the plates out and everything looked pretty good
>- not glazed-over or blackened at least. The basket had some light marks of
>where the plates rested but no notching or feel of indentations - the fingers
>felt smooth and the plates slid back and forth ok.
>I couldn't get the hub-nut off.
>held the basket and slipped a 22mm nut on the end of a 24-inch braker bar with
>a the half-inch drive - and couldn't move the nut.
>Instead the Universal Tool slipped with a bang and took out a gouge or two on
>the basket though I filed the dings smooth.
Save yourself the hassle and get an impact wrench and impact sockets.
Either air or electric- air impacts are cheaper but you also need the
compressor. A compressor and impact wrench and sockets cost me
about $260 from Harbor Freight and they've been worth it just for
loosening ignition rotor nuts and countershaft nuts... not to mention
useful stuff you can do with a compressor like sand blasting and painting.
>After removing the cover I hosed the brown rust and dirt down with
>brakecleaner. I got the flyhweel nut off, since it's only a measly 40-lbs
>torque, and had to clean out the insides to get at the inside threads.
>At first it didn' look like there were any threads because there was so much
>mud-rust fillig the cavity, but I got it cleaned so I could thread-in the KTM
>flywheel puller I bought for $17.95 at Zoom.
>The threads were wrong. Since it's a '97 I don't know, maybe they went to
>Japanese-style fine-threads that year...
>It is a reverse thread right?
Look real close for where the thread groove comes out. You can see if
it's left or right handed there. A small thread gauge can be used to
determine the pitch of the threads so you can find the right puller- the
Rocky Tucker catalog lists them by diameter and thread pitch. I've bought
Beta and Maico pullers at Redwood City Honda by going in there with the
pitch and diameter (on a slow day) and just ordering from the catalog.
--
Eric Murray www.lne.com/~ericm ericm at the site lne.com PGP keyid:E03F65E5
<IMG LOWSRC="javascript:alert('Delete C: and install Linux?')">
Mark Nelson
Do you have a Harbor Freight store near you? Go pick yourself up a 1/2"electric
impact wrench for $69.00 + free shipping. (or call 1-800-423-2567 Item
31877-4BGA) Over 240 pounds of torque! It's not Snap-On quality but I've used
mine for 2 years plus. I use it for removing: Fork base valves, axle nuts,
steering stems nuts, ROTOR NUTS, CLUTCH BASKET nuts, counter shaft sproket
nuts, and just about anything else that is tight. That doesn't even include the
auto uses. Very handy indeed.
And why were you turning the MP tool. It's to hold the clutch basket or rotor
and use your wrench to turn the nut. If you flip the thing over the little pegs
fit in the rotor holes and hold it too.(I had to file mine down a tad to fit
the Yamaha) I have one and it's worked well. You can also put it over the
counter shaft sprocket teeth and hold it there.
The older KTMs used a 1.25 mm thread pitch. Maybe when the switched to the "K"
ignition (japanese) they went to the jap 1.00 MM thread pitch? If any of your
buds have one try it.
For a guy with such a big vocabulary you sure are letting the machinery kick
your ass! :0)
>I do have one of those, I guess I need a bigger hammer is all, and maybe an
>impact-proof 22mm socket...
>
>When I had the bike in gear to hold it still, turning the dangerous
>Pro-Motion
>tool resulted in bike motion back and forth...Should I put it in 6th gear?
>
>>I would likely put the nut on the same way, and not mess with the
>>torque reading.
>
>That's similar advice I got last night, It'll probably tighten itself up
>anyhow, right?
>
>>Jim Hall
>>380 EXC and others
>
>Thanks Jim and y'all, it's been fun! Just don't bring a camera round when
>I'm
>wrenching :-)
>
>-k '97ktm300mxc
>
Mark
#567 OCCRA
Wesley Grass
|> In article <20000302155917...@ng-de1.aol.com>, DirtCrashr wrote:
|>
|> > tool resulted in bike motion back and forth...Should I put it in 6th gear?
|>
|> the swingarm for flywheel stuff with the clutch still together.
|>
|> For the clutch nut, stick a rag in the gear.
|>
|>
|> Uwe Hale
--
Doesn't that leave the inner hub free to turn?
Wes
MVCronk
"Uwe Hale" <ha...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:VA.000009c5.365ac131@uwe98...
| In article
<20000302155917...@ng-de1.aol.com>,
DirtCrashr wrote:
|
| > When I had the bike in gear to hold it still,
turning the dangerous Pro-Motion
| > tool resulted in bike motion back and
forth...Should I put it in 6th gear?
|
| Yes, top gear and stick a long extension through
the rear sprocket and across
| the swingarm for flywheel stuff with the clutch
still together.
I would have thought 1st gear a better choice.
Typically 1st gears are more robust and the ratio
tends to reduce strain on the gears sets.
My logic faulty here?
Mark
|
| For the clutch nut, stick a rag in the gear.
|
|
Jay C
Hmm, I always thought it was, "For clutching nuts, stick a rag in your
rear."
Live and learn.
Jay
DirtCrashr
>Either air or electric- air impacts are cheaper but you also need the
Thanks, Eric, both you and c5fltengnr-Mark have recommended this route, so I'm
looking at an electric impact wrench. After years of spraying paint on theater
scenery the on-off clank and rumble of an air-compressor is just annoying -
that and our small one-car garage limits space for most any activity. I looked
at one before when doing the XR400 fork-job but it was easier to take it to
Aftershocks and use Phil's tools to get the nut off. This is different :-)
One thing is that with electric ones, you can't set the torque on them right?
It's 200+ft/lbs, on or off. Makita makes a cute little 1/4" drive inch-pound
one, though I'm not sure how useful that would be except for stripping JayC's
axle clamping nuts. They also have one that does have a high/low setting of
either 109ft./lbs or 145ft/lbs. Huh.
>>The threads were wrong. Since it's a '97 I don't know, maybe they went to
>>Japanese-style fine-threads that year...
Doh! Yes they did (to answer myself).
>>It is a reverse thread right?
>Look real close for where the thread groove comes out. You can see if
>it's left or right handed there.
It actually *looked* right-handed, but that didn't make sense, I need to look
again.
I bought the stupid puller before I'd cleaned it up to even SEE the threads, so
that was just stupid on my part, but hopefully I can take it back...
If I can't, anybody want a motoplatt flywheel puller? It's yours.
>A small thread gauge can be used to
>determine the pitch of the threads so you can find the right puller- the
>Rocky Tucker catalog lists them by diameter and thread pitch. I've bought
>Beta and Maico pullers at Redwood City Honda by going in there with the
>pitch and diameter (on a slow day) and just ordering from the catalog.
Heh, I have a friend who works at a tool supply place, sometimes that helps and
sometimes it doesn't!
But the best news was from Mike Simmons who said that the puller is the same as
the Japanese ones Honda used on Kokkusan ignitions (that KTM's now have), at
least one that works on a Honda CT70... He said his brother had the same
problem I came across.
Thanks all you guys for following this ham-fisted exchange and offering great
ideas and help!
-k '97ktm300mxc
DirtCrashr
> Do you have a Harbor Freight store near you? Go pick yourself up a 1/2"
> electric impact wrench for $69.00 + free shipping.
There's one here in Fremont a couple miles from where I work. I looked at them
before when I was doing the XR400 forks but balked, because I could easily take
the forks over to Phil's (Aftershocks) and use his air-impact to get 'em apart.
I guess now is the time though!
> And why were you turning the MP tool. <snip>
Doh! I wasn't actually, it was the breaker-bar that moved the MP tool that
then let go and jumped of the basket and put a few gouges in non-critical
places... I also figured out how to use it to hold the flywheel, turning the
wrench against it while the footpeg held the MP tool in place.
> You can also put it over the
> counter shaft sprocket teeth and hold it there. <snip>
Hmmm, hadn't thought of that!
> The older KTMs used a 1.25 mm thread pitch. Maybe when the switched <snip>
Yeh Mike Simmons reports that the flywheel puller that works on his Honda also
works on his KTM, so the new ignitions (Kokkusan?) are a match. I can return
this and get the right one
> For a guy with such a big vocabulary you sure are letting the machinery kick
> your ass! :0)
And on my hands and knees in a cold dimly-lit one-car garage no less! :-) I
should know better, my dad was a shop teacher!
Tanks for all the support!
-k '97ktm300mxc
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
Uwe Hale
> I would have thought 1st gear a better choice.
> Typically 1st gears are more robust and the ratio
> tends to reduce strain on the gears sets.
There is more torque applied to the drivetrain in 1st gear. That's why
you start off in 1st gear instead of 6th - more torque to the rear
wheel.
Put the bike on a stand, in 1st gear, and have a buddy push the
kickstarter while you try to hold the rear tire still with your hands.
Hard to do. Try it in 6th and you should be able to keep him from
pushing down on the kickstart lever.
Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
http://www.rrdr.org
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
Dave Dude
>Keith
>
>Do you have a Harbor Freight store near you? Go pick yourself up a 1/2"electric
>impact wrench for $69.00 + free shipping. (or call 1-800-423-2567 Item
>31877-4BGA) Over 240 pounds of torque! It's not Snap-On quality but I've used
>mine for 2 years plus. I use it for removing: Fork base valves, axle nuts,
>steering stems nuts, ROTOR NUTS, CLUTCH BASKET nuts, counter shaft sproket
>nuts, and just about anything else that is tight. That doesn't even include the
>auto uses. Very handy indeed.
Keith-try to avoid the cheep bastard(like MARK) route and just pop for
the 5hp compressor /30gal tank and a set of air tools. It wont help
much if your a procrastinating slacker like me but when you do get
around to it chucking up the impact socket and spinning off the hub
nut in about 2 sec is sooooo cool. Without even holding the hub! Then
you have the air gun for blowing shit out of tiny crevices and the die
grinder for massacre on metal and the air hammer will shoot tools
great distances-pinning big roaches to the wall......and how bout
overinflating tires faster than you can blink? That electric thing
cannot do all of that...you KNOW you want the air thing---and who
knows there maybe air attachments guys like Freddie use to "help"
that we don't know about...:-0
>
>For a guy with such a big vocabulary you sure are letting the machinery kick
>your ass! :0)
Mark cut him some slack-he's a left brainer :-)
Dave "slacker" Dude
96yz250
Mark Nelson
If space were no object I would go that route. Once I move out of the slums
I'll have both. The electric is so much quicker. Plug in and take it off. No
waiting for compessors to fill tanks and all that crap. They both have their
place.
Why don't you come out and race with the cheap bastard Mark this weekend at
Murray. We'll see if your as full of air as the compressor you speak of. :0)
Happy trails
>Keith-try to avoid the cheep bastard(like MARK) route and just pop for
>the 5hp compressor /30gal tank and a set of air tools. It wont help
>much if your a procrastinating slacker like me but when you do get
>around to it chucking up the impact socket and spinning off the hub
>nut in about 2 sec is sooooo cool. Without even holding the hub! Then
>you have the air gun for blowing shit out of tiny crevices and the die
>grinder for massacre on metal and the air hammer will shoot tools
>great distances-pinning big roaches to the wall......and how bout
>overinflating tires faster than you can blink? That electric thing
>cannot do all of that...you KNOW you want the air thing---and who
>knows there maybe air attachments guys like Freddie use to "help"
>that we don't know about...:-0
>
>
>
>>
>>For a guy with such a big vocabulary you sure are letting the machinery kick
>>your ass! :0)
>
>Mark cut him some slack-he's a left brainer :-)
>
>Dave "slacker" Dude
>96yz250
>
>
Mark Nelson
#567 OCCRA
Oklahoma Cross Country Racing Association
Rot 13
DirtCrashr <dirtc...@aol.comNoCrud> wrote:
>>Save yourself the hassle and get an impact wrench and impact sockets.
>>Either air or electric- air impacts are cheaper but you also need the
>>compressor. <snipplet>
>
>Thanks, Eric, both you and c5fltengnr-Mark have recommended this route, so I'm
>looking at an electric impact wrench. After years of spraying paint on theater
>scenery the on-off clank and rumble of an air-compressor is just annoying -
>that and our small one-car garage limits space for most any activity. I looked
>at one before when doing the XR400 fork-job but it was easier to take it to
>Aftershocks and use Phil's tools to get the nut off. This is different :-)
I used to live pretty close to Phil's...
I put my compressor in a closet in the garage, so it's not quite as
loud. When I build my shop, the compressor will go in an insulated
shed outside the shop.
>One thing is that with electric ones, you can't set the torque on them right?
>It's 200+ft/lbs, on or off. Makita makes a cute little 1/4" drive inch-pound
>one, though I'm not sure how useful that would be except for stripping JayC's
>axle clamping nuts. They also have one that does have a high/low setting of
>either 109ft./lbs or 145ft/lbs. Huh.
Suck. It's nice to have different torque settings. Low settings
are good when you're using it on smaller nuts or bolts or on
something with aluminum threads.
>It actually *looked* right-handed, but that didn't make sense, I need to look
>again.
>I bought the stupid puller before I'd cleaned it up to even SEE the threads, so
>that was just stupid on my part, but hopefully I can take it back...
>If I can't, anybody want a motoplatt flywheel puller? It's yours.
Why not keep it? You never know when you're going to need a
tool like that.... I have four flywheel pullers in my m/c tool drawer now.
DirtCrashr
I'm about a mile. Orchard Supply is right down there around the corner too,
and now there's an In-and-Out burger at the strangest corner... ;-)
>I put my compressor in a closet in the garage, so it's not quite as
>loud. When I build my shop, the compressor will go in an insulated
>shed outside the shop.
Ideally that is *really* the way to go, put that sucker 10-feet down the
hillside in an insulated underground bunker with the extra 210 amp shop service
panel!
I live in Condo-Bondage so while I can rennovate bits of the interior and do
strange things in front of the window, the garage is limited to paint and
shelves ;-)
>>One thing is that with electric ones, you can't set the torque on them
<snip>
>Suck. It's nice to have different torque settings. Low settings
>are good when you're using it on smaller nuts or bolts or on
>something with aluminum threads.
...and and electriocj with 240ft/lbs will spin an nut onto aluminum at about
60mph?
While searching the web for electric impact wrenches I read this little
cautionary tale from some lineman web-page:
"Our foreman was using an electric impact wrench to remove the nuts off the
retaining bolts to a tap changer on a substation transformer.
When a nut got stuck inside the driver, he tapped it several times on the
concrete then stuck his right index finger into the driver to wiggle the nut
and free it.
As he was doing this, he hit the trigger and
drove the nut past the second joint of his finger.
By the time they figured out how to cut the nut off his finger, the lack of
blood past the nut ended up costing our foreman his finger."
http://www.powerlineman.com/safety_meeting/safetypostings/impact_wrench.htm
So everybody keep your fingers out of that thing!
<snip other stuff>
>>If I can't, anybody want a (KTM etc.) motoplatt flywheel puller? It's yours.
>Why not keep it? You never know when you're going to need a
>tool like that.... I have four flywheel pullers in my m/c tool drawer now.
I was thinking that someone on RMD who was restoring an older KTM or Euro-bike
might have more difficulty finding and perhaps more need of this particular
puller than I do...
>--
> Eric Murray www.lne.com/~ericm ericm at the site lne.com PGP
>keyid:E03F65E5
> <IMG LOWSRC="javascript:alert('Delete C: and install Linux?')">
C-ya!
-k '97ktm300mxc
Jay C
news:20000304134036...@ng-xe1.aol.com...
> Dave
>
> If space were no object I would go that route.
That's crap. I have a small compressor made by Cambell Hausfield (sp?).
The whole thing is only about 2 1/2' long, 2' high and about 1 1/2' wide.
It is on wheels so it is easy to drag around and stuff into a corner or
under a table for storage. All of the air tools are smaller than the
equivalent electric tools and there are no cords to get tangled up. Just
toss them all into a drawer.
Jay
Mark Nelson
understand. To get my truck out of the hail and T-storms I have to load my
bikes in the truck and put the truck in the garage. Of course to do that I have
to stack all my junk on top of the washer and drier. It's white trash heaven
baby! :0)
>> Dave
>>
>> If space were no object I would go that route.
>
>That's crap. I have a small compressor made by Cambell Hausfield (sp?).
>The whole thing is only about 2 1/2' long, 2' high and about 1 1/2' wide.
>It is on wheels so it is easy to drag around and stuff into a corner or
>under a table for storage. All of the air tools are smaller than the
>equivalent electric tools and there are no cords to get tangled up. Just
>toss them all into a drawer.
>
>Jay
Wesley Grass
|> Like I said Jay, if I had the space. If you saw my so called garage you would
|> understand. To get my truck out of the hail and T-storms I have to load my
|> bikes in the truck and put the truck in the garage. Of course to do that I have
|> to stack all my junk on top of the washer and drier. It's white trash heaven
|> baby! :0)
|>
|>
|>
|>
--
Hey, fellow white trash,
What the hell are your bikes doing in the garage? Don't you have a living room?
Wes
MXOldtimer
>
>What the hell are your bikes doing in the garage? Don't you have a living
>room?
>
>
That is his living room LOL
Doug