Sleeving a nikasil cylinder
Tiago
never race MX again, I still love my limbs). Original cylinder is
badly scored. Replate company 1000km+ away from me said at least R
$800, or almost USD500, after shipping is added. Replate company also
doesn't promise it will be replateable (is there such a thing? I
thought it would be, every time), because really there is a huge
scratch on it after running out of coolant while wfo and they need to
see it to tell if it is replateable and I'd be paying at least
shipping both ways.
Lots of horror stories about "total lack of power" after resleeving,
but Wiseco sleeve from eBay, shipping and import taxes included will
run for only 160 USD and I could have it resleeved at a place that I
already know and trust and is local to me. Considering that I won't
race, just ride leisure trails, do you think it really worth spending
3 times more for replating?
For just 350 USD more, shipping and tax included, I can have all
bearings and seals from eBay, all Motion Pro (google tends to tell me
is a good brand). I think resurrecting good ol' RM will get me back on
trails much cheaper than if I attempt to rebuild the completely
destroyed engine from my XR250...
thanks for any insight! Of course I'd love to hear "go for it on
resleeving", but I won't do anything wrong to my dear RM, it is a
great bike to rip up and down zombie woods and scare the shit out of
XR250 riders ;) You should see their faces when I tell them "no, no,
this is not the 250, this is the 125" :D
-- T
HardWorkingDog
<2cac0bbc-a0f2-4ebb...@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
Tiago <diarioda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> thanks for any insight! Of course I'd love to hear "go for it on
> resleeving", but I won't do anything wrong to my dear RM, it is a
> great bike to rip up and down zombie woods and scare the shit out of
> XR250 riders ;) You should see their faces when I tell them "no, no,
> this is not the 250, this is the 125" :D
I would never resleeve a plated cylinder. But that's just me.
I've had 2 cylinders replated. And both times I've regretted it. For a
few dollars more you can buy an oem cylinder, brand new, no problems,
perfect fit and perfect condition. And you may be able to sell your
damaged cylinder to a replater.
Sorry about the world cup. Even though Brazil lasted one round longer,
it still would have been fun...
--
Charles
'99 YZ250
"It's bad luck just SEEin' a thing like that..."
Tiago
> In article
> <2cac0bbc-a0f2-4ebb-b780-289b0d974...@i28g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
<gasp> 700 USD plus shipping. It's more than the bike worth :)
http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm?gclid=CLG-063B5qICFUIf7god2G3Dkw
Any hints where I can check? eBay is useless, they only have for newer
models, mine is on the range 94..96. Only if this was ten years
older:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-RM125-Jug-Cylinder-Better-Than-New-Millenium-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b26dc9d0QQitemZ170497264080QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
btw, I won't be buying them right now. I'm on vacation next month and
traveling to Uruguay and Argentina, drown on medio y medio and stuff
on churrasco and dulce de leche. When I return, I was thinking about
rebuilding the XR, but I guess the RM will be cheaper, cheap is good,
all I want is ride...
brasil soccer team (they don't deserve uppercase) is the ongoing joke
of the year: first ever goal against own team for the entire story of
cup participations *and* first head goal on the career of that Dutch
(they *do* deserver uppercase) player.
-- T
Tiago
I posted that too fast! Found an used but allegedly good cylinder on
eBay....
thinking thinking...
:)
-- T
HardWorkingDog
<c0ee66d0-d98e-4f84...@z8g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
Tiago <diarioda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <gasp> 700 USD plus shipping. It's more than the bike worth :)
> http://www.alpha-sports.com/suzuki_parts.htm?gclid=CLG-063B5qICFUIf7god2G3Dkw
>
I could get it for $625...
No Brazilian dealer?
> Any hints where I can check? eBay is useless, they only have for newer
> models, mine is on the range 94..96. Only if this was ten years
> older:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Suzuki-RM125-Jug-Cylinder-Better-Than-New-Mille
> nium-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem27b26dc9d0QQitemZ170497264080QQptZMotorcycles
> Q5fPartsQ5fAccessories
>
> btw, I won't be buying them right now. I'm on vacation next month and
> traveling to Uruguay and Argentina, drown on medio y medio and stuff
> on churrasco and dulce de leche. When I return, I was thinking about
> rebuilding the XR, but I guess the RM will be cheaper, cheap is good,
> all I want is ride...
I wonder if you could find another used RM and salvage the cylinder?
> brasil soccer team (they don't deserve uppercase) is the ongoing joke
> of the year: first ever goal against own team for the entire story of
> cup participations *and* first head goal on the career of that Dutch
> (they *do* deserver uppercase) player.
Oh well, I guess expectations were pretty high. There were a lot of good
teams that didn't make the final...
mxphlipper
Go big bore! Opie had his RMX250 turned into a 280 with no issues.
Shipping, since they want the whole engine may be an issue, and you're
still exceeding the value of the bike probably. But hey, sounds like
you have an attachment. I understand, I poured way to much $$$ into my
82 maico 490. Finally let her go when I lost the rod bearings. Biggest
MC mistake I ever made.
HardWorkingDog
> On Jul 12, 9:32 am, Tiago <diariodastril...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Of my 94 RM125. I will never race it (as a matter of fact, I will
> > never race MX again, I still love my limbs). Original cylinder is
> > badly scored. Replate company 1000km+ away from me said at least R
> > $800, or almost USD500, after shipping is added. Replate company also
> > doesn't promise it will be replateable (is there such a thing? I
> > thought it would be, every time), because really there is a huge
> > scratch on it after running out of coolant while wfo and they need to
> > see it to tell if it is replateable and I'd be paying at least
> > shipping both ways.
Hmm, both the companies in the US i've used--Millenium Technologies and
Langcourt, Ltd., charge much less, around $200 USD plus shipping. Seems
like you could still be ahead even for shipping from Br to US. I'd be
willing to broker it if it would help. I wound up using a credit card to
pay for my Ozzie XT part, it arrived exactly one week after it was put
in the mail in Adelaide.
btw, without using google, does ANYONE on rmd know what an Australian
means by the word "arvo?"
sturd
> btw, without using google, does ANYONE on rmd know what an Australian
> means by the word "arvo?"
Sure, just don't use the word abo that afternoon. McGarry almost
got beat for it.
Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.
HardWorkingDog
<778d94f2-cf1f-4764...@w30g2000yqw.googlegroups.com>,
sturd <mikestur...@hotmail.com> wrote:
abo seems grokable. But arvo??? where did THAT come from.
sturd
> abo seems grokable. But arvo??? where did THAT come from.
No idea. Same place as calling the wild budgies "29's". I
researched (by asking everybody I came across) where that
came from but nobody had a clue.
Now that I think about it, maybe that number is wrong, been
a long time. But the budgies still get called by a number.
There are many mysteries in Aus.
Wudsracer
Here, in my situation, it's cheaper to have a 2-stroke cylinder
repaired/recoated than it is to have one sleeved. (Figuring in the
cost of the sleeve, and then labor costs to have a competent mechanic
bore the cylinder, and then match and chamfer the ports of the sleeve
and the cylinder.) Most scratches can be just coated over, and a deep
gouge can be welded (and rebored) before coating; although the welding
raises the repair extra.
If you have cheap (and good) labor available, the sleeve might be
less cost, overall. It will work fine.
The benefit of resleeving the cylinder will be that the sleeve can
be rebored to an oversize when the bore gets worn.
The drawback to resleeving is that (I was told) that the sleeved
cylinder has slower heat transfer. (longer warm-up time, and possibly
slightly hotter operating temps in extremely hot weather.)
I know from experience that a resleeved cylinder will work well.
Charles said that he would help you, and I am always glad to help
you. Just figure the costs, make your decision, and let one of us
know if you want to have the cylinder repaired/replated.
If you decide on replating, you will need to remove all studs,
manifolds, & etc. before you send the cylinder away for the work.
Think "Naked Cylinder".
I would advise against purchasing any used cylinder that you can not
have measured and inspected, if not personally, then at least by a
competent mechanic that you trust. (not on ebay, unless the feedback
is alls positive and you feel really good about the deal.)
It will most likely not save you money in the long run. Have your
cylinder repaired or resleeved, instead.
For the best results on a repair/recoat job, buy the piston kit from
the repair company; so that they can precision hone the bore to
perfectly match the piston (.015" to .002") clearance between piston
and bore).
If you can really save some money on the piston kit locally, then I
would get it locally, and just measure everything before reassembly.
(to have as a reference for later inspection and work)
Upon reassembly, warm the engine thoroughly by gently riding the
bike around at low rpms and low loads. Then, run it at high loads up
to 50-60% rpms for 20 minutes or so. After that, run it at high loads
for a few more runs up to top rpms. The high loads (not rpms, but
engine load caused by full throttle) will raise compression, which
will get behind the rings and force them to wear into and mate with
the cylinder bore.
Shut the engine down and check for leaks, loose bolts, or problems.
If you find none, you should be good to go. Just warm the engine
thoroughly before riding it, each time.
Take care, and let us know what you decide to do.
Take care,
Jim (leaving for BMMP in NC in a few hours. (850 miles east northeast)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiago
Hi Jim!
I ended up buying one used on eBay. It will cost less than half of the
cost of having it replated and about the same as if I had it
resleeved. I already bought the piston about six months ago. I'm
slowly buying parts for this bike - I don't see myself riding it
before 2011 though, car need parts, other bike need parts, little
CG125 commuter need parts and my wallet isn't bottomless <vbg>. The
guy I bought from (posted link on this same thread) seems to be honest
and I will take the chances, for the price I will be paying it will
worth it: about the same as a sleeve, slightly costlier shipping, but
I guess it worth the try. Every used part I bought from eBay until
today was so new and clean that I wonder if these bikes were ever
ridden! I can have the sleeving done cheaply, for about only 50 USD.
The problem I see is that two strokes are a dying breed, I am not 100%
sure if the guy (owner who I know) on the machine shop will do it
himself or let the trainee who never ever saw a hi-performance two
stroke in his life. That, really, is my biggest concern now. Well,
since I had bought the cylinder from eBay I will have two cylinders. I
might, in the future, have the badly scored one resleeved and keep the
one that I just bought on the nikasil plating.
After this, all I will need to make to bike run is cables (throtle and
clutch) and fork seals and *all* bearings, linkage, shock, wheels...
About more 350USD in bearings/seal. When finished, I will have three
times what the bike worth just in small parts... It will worth it. Two
nights ago, while riding the little CG back home, I had a "a-ha!"
moment. My XR250 features what Honda calls "Double High Sus" meaning
that it has a way to considerably lower it. All it takes is to slid
the forks down and reposition the shock on an already provided lower
(actually higher, making it go lower) bolt hole. So, I already have
bikes for both me & wife. She's not very thrilled, because biggest
bike she ever rode was a 150cc dual sport but she says she will go for
it. Which is great. I hope to get back on the trails by the end of
this year, at maximum. I blew both fork seals on the CG jumping it on
a "shortcut" through an unpaved road while commuting to work. Bike is
wife's, she's disgusted by the overall condition of the bike: dirt,
with fork oil splattered all over it... <g> Can't help! I'm working
10hrs/day + school at night, I arrive home 11pm and wake up 5am, no
time to wash... Bike was mint, like it belonged to a museum, before I
put my dirt hands on it. Vacations coming in 2 weeks, or, 11 more
riding days. Will fix it after I return.
Thanks Jim! Have a safe and pleasant trip!
-- T
David Kelly
> The benefit of resleeving the cylinder will be that the sleeve can
> be rebored to an oversize when the bore gets worn.
Catch-22 is that if its a plated cylinder one won't find much in the way
of overbore pistons.
> The drawback to resleeving is that (I was told) that the sleeved
> cylinder has slower heat transfer. (longer warm-up time, and possibly
> slightly hotter operating temps in extremely hot weather.)
> I know from experience that a resleeved cylinder will work well.
The problem is making full contact all the way around the sleeve. Any
place the sleeve fails to contact, or contacts lightly, will run hotter
than others. Sleeve will distort when heated unevenly. Maybe this will
be a problem, maybe not. No matter, sleeves were better for aluminum
block Chevrolet Vegas than the factory's bare aluminum cylinder because
the block was such a sorry design in the first place. Cast iron cylinder
head only made matters worse.