What can I run thru gearbox to clean it?
MxPhlipper
something thru the gearbox to flush it clean. The clutch was
slipping and the oil is very black.
I'd like to flush it of used oil and contaminents. Seems I
remember using kerosene or diesel fuel in four strokes.
Thanx for any responses,
Phil
MxPhlipper
1991 YZ 250
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
The Doctor
John&Ilona Klosterman
run through all gears up and down a bazillion times...
modest throttle/rpm settings. Rinse and repeat until
perfectly clean.... probably OK to overfill about 10-20%
When done... fill with favorite gearbox oil.
JK
Peer Lovell
>I'm changing the cluch in my 91 YZ 250 and wanted to run
>something thru the gearbox to flush it clean. The clutch was
>slipping and the oil is very black.
>
>I'd like to flush it of used oil
Just getting the bike hot, and draining the oil while its thin and hot should
be enough.
If you want, you can buy a quart of Motor Flush at Walmart or any auto store
and run this for no more than five minutes, then drain and re-fill with your
usual oil.
Peer Lovell
'98 CR250
Dave Dude
<mxphlippe...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>I'm changing the cluch in my 91 YZ 250 and wanted to run
>something thru the gearbox to flush it clean. The clutch was
>slipping and the oil is very black.
>
>I'd like to flush it of used oil and contaminents. Seems I
>remember using kerosene or diesel fuel in four strokes.
>
>Thanx for any responses,
>
>Phil
>
>MxPhlipper
>1991 YZ 250
Dude! A simple fill with some kinda solvent might not get the all the
crap out. Nothing works to get hard-packed sludge out like pulling off
the entire right side cover and blasting the stubborn shit outta there
with brake cleaner. Be careful with that stuff, you know it's not good
for seals. Flush all that brake cleaner out of there with a kerosene
rinse, just lay the bike on it's side a fill er up, tip up to drain.
Use cheap motor oil(new) to flush the kerosene out. Reassemble
everything, fill with your fav fluid(I don't recommend ATF) and go.
Good luck
Dave Dude
96yz250
David Levy
wouldn't think it's necessary to get *all* of that crap out.
"MxPhlipper" <mxphlippe...@aol.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:1bdcc044...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com...
> I'm changing the cluch in my 91 YZ 250 and wanted to run
> something thru the gearbox to flush it clean. The clutch was
> slipping and the oil is very black.
>
> I'd like to flush it of used oil and contaminents. Seems I
> remember using kerosene or diesel fuel in four strokes.
>
> Thanx for any responses,
>
> Phil
>
> MxPhlipper
> 1991 YZ 250
>
MxPhlipper
and hot should be enough.<
This brings up another question. The capacity for this bike is
something like 700ml. But when I drain and refill it, it will
only take about 375ml, even when I tilt the engine side to side.
So I'm really only draining 1/2 the oil. I did the drain and
refill thing 5 times and it still lokked preety black, that's why
I was asking about a flush method.
Jim Cook
I would put in cheap type F atf and run about ten minutes and change
it. I would repeat this until the dumped out oil comes out clean.
Then, I would put in the new clutch. BTW, remember to soak the
friction plates in transmission oil before installing them.
>On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:00:44 -0700, MxPhlipper <mxphlippe...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>I'm changing the cluch in my 91 YZ 250 and wanted to run
>something thru the gearbox to flush it clean. The clutch was
>slipping and the oil is very black.
>
>I'd like to flush it of used oil and contaminents. Seems I
>remember using kerosene or diesel fuel in four strokes.
>
>Thanx for any responses,
>
>Phil
>
>MxPhlipper
>1991 YZ 250
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>
>Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
>Up to 100 minutes free!
>http://www.keen.com
>
Jim Cook / Wudsracer
Gas Gas EC 250
Smackover Motor Sports
870-725-3966
www.smackovermotorsports.com
Senior B - SMS Racing/Team LAGNAF
BJEC SERA AHSCS TSCEC AMA
WR400 Pilot
oil after every full days ride until you are happy with what
comes out. I'd use cheap oil (like Walmart Tech2000 for $.78)
Once it starts coming out clean (after 4-6 changes) you can
switch to a better oil, if that suits you, or just continue very
regular changes with cheap oil and it will never get truly nasty
again. :)
I'd avoid putting anything other than oil in the the crankcase.
Just my opinion...
Scot
WR400 Pilot
TSCEC #428
Dave Dude
wrote:
I would hesitate to spray brake cleaner into a four-stroke gearbox
too! On the stinkwheels you don't have to worry about messing up
crankshaft/rod bearings and piston/ring/bore lube. Mind you, when I
put the new clutch in the YZ, I wasn't about to leave all that sludge
in the bottom of the gearbox. As hard packed as it was I knew some of
it would come out into suspension to circulate around every time oil
was changed, contaminating my fresh oil with particles right from the
get go. Can't have that in my sweet baby stinker YZ, eh? And it took
quite a bit of blasting to clean all that sludge out-a couple cans of
brake cleaner and lots of tedious work.. Ain't no way just a flush
with ATF or motor oil was gonna get that crap out, it was in there
hard. I ended up with a gearbox so clean you could eat off of it. I
took special pains to flush out/displace all the solvents and get
proper lube into all the bearings there-can't have no screwed up
bearings in my sweet baby.
Only then was I satisfied the environment for my new clutch was
pristine and fresh. My oil changes tell me I did the right thing-oil
comes out as clean as it went in. Even after extended rides or two
rides on the same oil. It ain't never been like that before-it always
come out dirty before or real black when using ATF. Mind you I quit
the ATF shit too, cause that's what it is is shit-how come you don't
run it in a four stroke gearbox? Cause it will screw things up is why
and what if one of my crank seals goes and ATF sucks into the
crankcase? What if Mobil 1 sucks into the crankcase? Yeah I thought
so. Bow to the wisdom of it and your welcome. Losers.
Dave Dude
96yz250
MxPhlipper
Dave Dude almost sounds like Dave Levy.
Scary.
MxPhlipper
MxPhlipper
1991 YZ 250
Jay C
> the ATF shit too, cause that's what it is is shit-how come you don't
> run it in a four stroke gearbox?
I do run ATF in my 4-strokes on occasion. Not only in my XR400 but in my
Toyota too. The motors absolutely love it.
Jay
Uwe Hale
> . It ain't never been like that before-it always
> come out dirty before or real black when using ATF.
Gee, you think maybe the detergents in the ATF were getting all the
crap out that you were talking about?
> Mind you I quit
> the ATF shit too, cause that's what it is is shit-how come you don't
> run it in a four stroke gearbox?
Because ATF is not a good motor oil. A 4 stroke shares the oil with
the crankcase and gearbox. You really should have known this by now.
Many manual transmission cars specify using ATF in their gearboxes.
> Cause it will screw things up is why
> and what if one of my crank seals goes and ATF sucks into the
> crankcase? What if Mobil 1 sucks into the crankcase? Yeah I thought
> so.
What do you think would happen?
>Bow to the wisdom of it and your welcome. Losers.
LOL. Wisdom from a guy running 60:1 and who didn't know how to start
his bike for 3 years? Put down the booze.
Uwe
guary...@my-deja.com
ha...@texas.net wrote:
>
>
> LOL. Wisdom from a guy running 60:1 and who didn't know how to start
> his bike for 3 years? Put down the booze.
>
> Uwe
>
What about 60:1? I'm on 70:1, and that's because my piston and rings are
new.
Guaryzzzpode
KTM 300 exc 98
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
WR400 Pilot
>In article <398fdb8...@news.grlnd1.tx.home.com>, Dave Dude
wrote:
>
>> . It ain't never been like that before-it always
>> come out dirty before or real black when using ATF.
>
>Gee, you think maybe the detergents in the ATF were getting all
the
>crap out that you were talking about?
>
His description of crusted dirt inside the crankcase made me
shudder. I've bought used bikes that had not been treated the
way I like and had to do several oil changes, but I've never
opened one and seen what he described.
>> Mind you I quit
>> the ATF shit too, cause that's what it is is shit-how come
you don't
>> run it in a four stroke gearbox?
>
>Because ATF is not a good motor oil. A 4 stroke shares the oil
with
>the crankcase and gearbox. You really should have known this
by now.
>
>Many manual transmission cars specify using ATF in their
gearboxes.
>
>> Cause it will screw things up is why
>> and what if one of my crank seals goes and ATF sucks into the
>> crankcase? What if Mobil 1 sucks into the crankcase? Yeah I
thought
>> so.
>
>What do you think would happen?
>
It burns, just like the mobile 1... until your plugs fouls and
leaves you stranded.
>>Bow to the wisdom of it and your welcome. Losers.
>
>LOL. Wisdom from a guy running 60:1 and who didn't know how to
start
>his bike for 3 years? Put down the booze.
>
Ya know, it's hard to tell you guys are friends if I didn't
already know (or am I the one out of the loop?) ;-)
Scot
>
>Uwe
>
>
>
Scot
WR400 Pilot
TSCEC #428
-----------------------------------------------------------
Wazzup
it won't take out that sludge. If I understand your posting
correctly, tt depends on what your definition of clean is. To clean
your engine from particles and dirty oil, drain it and flush it. I
like the suggestion of getting cheap Walmart oil, especially if you
can get it less the 80 cents, wow! I wish we had that here. For a
quick rinse use Kerosene, but to get rid of that sludge, well the only
100% working method is unfortunatly the biggest pain in the butt and
may take a while. To clean your sludge, you'll have to take your
engine apart and clean it with a lot of rags and some elbow grease.
When the grime appear, it basically holds on for dear life. Once the
beasts gets on, the only to get ride of it is to physically clean it
off, chemicals cleaners are just a waste of your time and money. I
have the same problem in my VW Jetta, the engine is so old that there
is a sludge film on every component. I suggest that when you do get
it squeeky clean, replace your oil frequently. Like this, the sludge
will never have a chance to form in the first place. Here's a golden
rule to remember: It's never hurts to replace your engine'soil too
early, but it hurts to replace your oil too late.
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:31:57 -0700, WR400 Pilot <fdsa...@techie.com>
wrote:
>Uwe Hale <ha...@texas.net> wrote:
Uwe Hale
wrote:
> Ya know, it's hard to tell you guys are friends if I didn't
> already know (or am I the one out of the loop?) ;
I rag on him BECAUSE we're friends. I wouldn't talk like that to
people I don't know.
Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
http://www.rrdr.org
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
Uwe Hale
> What about 60:1? I'm on 70:1, and that's because my piston and rings are
> new.
You're running 70:1 because you're pistons and rings are new???
I don't understand.
Dave Dude
>In article <398fdb8...@news.grlnd1.tx.home.com>, Dave Dude wrote:
>
>> . It ain't never been like that before-it always
>> come out dirty before or real black when using ATF.
>
>Gee, you think maybe the detergents in the ATF were getting all the
>crap out that you were talking about?
No I don't. If it were good for that then I'd a had a clean gearbox.
Weak.
>
>> Mind you I quit
>> the ATF shit too, cause that's what it is is shit-how come you don't
>> run it in a four stroke gearbox?
>
>Because ATF is not a good motor oil. A 4 stroke shares the oil with
>the crankcase and gearbox. You really should have known this by now.
That was the point I was making-are you okay? ATF is not good oil.
it's more like glorified hydraulic fluid. Something appears to be
wrong with you cognitive abilities. Weak again..
>
>Many manual transmission cars specify using ATF in their gearboxes.
Wonderful and weak..
>
>> Cause it will screw things up is why
>> and what if one of my crank seals goes and ATF sucks into the
>> crankcase? What if Mobil 1 sucks into the crankcase? Yeah I thought
>> so.
>
>What do you think would happen?
Degradation of lubrication if ATF is sucked in. No degradation of
lubrication if Mobil 1 is sucked in. Why do I have to spell this out
for you? Really weak today Uwe.
>
>>Bow to the wisdom of it and your welcome. Losers.
>
>LOL. Wisdom from a guy running 60:1 and who didn't know how to start
>his bike for 3 years? Put down the booze.
>
>
>Uwe
>
Damn, three more really weak stabs-Uwe, now I am getting concerned.
You are trying too hard to sound smart and ending up sounding really
stupid. Better put down the doobie.
Dave Dude
96yz250
Dave Dude
>In article <02c078a8...@usw-ex0103-018.remarq.com>, WR400 Pilot
>wrote:
>> Ya know, it's hard to tell you guys are friends if I didn't
>> already know (or am I the one out of the loop?) ;
>
>I rag on him BECAUSE we're friends. I wouldn't talk like that to
>people I don't know.
>
>
>Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
>http://www.rrdr.org
>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
>
>
Yeah, Ditto-you ignorant slut.<G>
Dave Dude
96yz250
WR400 Pilot
>In article <8msck3$6kp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, wrote:
>
>> What about 60:1? I'm on 70:1, and that's because my piston
and rings are
>> new.
>
>You're running 70:1 because you're pistons and rings are
new???
>
>I don't understand.
Gee Uwe, buy a clue (taking cues from Dave Dude <g>)
He just wants to BREAK them in. Truly, you should have known...
;-)
Scot
>
>Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
>http://www.rrdr.org
>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
>
>
>
>
Jeff Deeney
: That was the point I was making-are you okay? ATF is not good oil.
: it's more like glorified hydraulic fluid. Something appears to be
: wrong with you cognitive abilities. Weak again..
: Degradation of lubrication if ATF is sucked in. No degradation of
: lubrication if Mobil 1 is sucked in. Why do I have to spell this out
: for you? Really weak today Uwe.
I will have to vehemently disagree with the above slanderous statements.
ATF is designed to work in gears and clutches, without the compromises
required by motor oils to meet draconian emissions standards. ATF is a
great lubricant. I run either Bel-Ray Gearsaver in my 2-stroke, or
Dextron ATF. I can't tell any difference in oil color or performance.
The Dextron is 1/5 the price of Gearsaver.
I always thought you wanted to use Dextron, rather than type F ATF. The
type F has a friction modifier intended to prevent slippage of weak
clutches. It seems that this would reduce it's lubricating ability.
Any clutch that can withstand Mobile 1 will be able to handle Dextron.
Worrying about ATF coming thru a bad crank seal is downright silly.
From Daves' diatribe you would think that it will cause the lower end to
spontaneously disolve. It will still lubricate and foul your plug, just
like motor oil. How long are you really going to be able to ride with a
bad seal anyway? Much bigger problems will stop you long before you
could have any effect on the crank.
-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
j...@fc.hp.com '88 XR600-Shamu(4sale)
'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
Uwe Hale
> >Because ATF is not a good motor oil. A 4 stroke shares the oil with
> >the crankcase and gearbox. You really should have known this by now.
>
> That was the point I was making-are you okay? ATF is not good oil.
> it's more like glorified hydraulic fluid. Something appears to be
> wrong with you cognitive abilities. Weak again..
Automatic transmissions have gears and wet clutches JUST LIKE A 2s
GEARBOX. ATF can handle 1000s of horsepower. I'm sure it'll survive
40hp.
> >Many manual transmission cars specify using ATF in their gearboxes.
>Wonderful and weak..
Couldn't think of a counterpoint, eh?
If motor oil is so good in a gearbox environment, why don't car
manufacturers put it in their automatic transmissions or their
gearboxes?
Dave Dude
nos...@thank.you@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Jeff Deeney) wrote:
>Dave Dude (davey...@home.com) wrote:
>: That was the point I was making-are you okay? ATF is not good oil.
>: it's more like glorified hydraulic fluid. Something appears to be
>: wrong with you cognitive abilities. Weak again..
>
>: Degradation of lubrication if ATF is sucked in. No degradation of
>: lubrication if Mobil 1 is sucked in. Why do I have to spell this out
>: for you? Really weak today Uwe.
>
>I will have to vehemently disagree with the above slanderous statements.
Friends of ATF, stand up and be counted!<G>
>ATF is designed to work in gears and clutches, without the compromises
>required by motor oils to meet draconian emissions standards.
When was Type F designed? You might could say its "precambrian" or how
about "jurassic juice". Mobil 1 15w 50 still has the good stuff in
it-hasn't been removed yet like the other weights. Unless MXTUNER and
RR have been fillin me fulla sh*t. There is a difference in labeling.
> ATF is a
>great lubricant.
It is amazing stuff-Type F currently circulates thru my power steering
system in my old station wagon and also the transmission. Hydraulic in
nature, yes? Both systems involve pumps, the fluid circulates under
pressure. Does a good job in there and never comes out black.
> I run either Bel-Ray Gearsaver in my 2-stroke, or
>Dextron ATF. I can't tell any difference in oil color or performance.
>The Dextron is 1/5 the price of Gearsaver.
Interesting. I ran belray gear saver in both my YZ, DT and my son's
KX60-both our clutches would lock up and not disengage from time to
time when cold. That never happened with type F. Shifting was poor
with the bel-ray, better with type F and flat awesome with the Mobil
1. Getting to neutral on the Dt was always a bee-atch with bel-ray,
now with Mobil 1 it just "snicks" in there ever sooooo smoooth. Big
difference in performance. Seems like the bel-ray was a sorta clear
fluid-type-f is definitely red. When drained both were heavily
discolored or more usually plain black. Lots of particles held in
suspension. With the Mobil 1 there is only a slight discoloration at
best. Almost no particles in held in suspension. Quite obviously a
superior lubricant for the application. Then there is the noise
factor-With ATF the gearbox noise was highly noticeable and
disconcerting . Much quieter with mobil 1.
>
>I always thought you wanted to use Dextron, rather than type F ATF. The
>type F has a friction modifier intended to prevent slippage of weak
>clutches. It seems that this would reduce it's lubricating ability.
>Any clutch that can withstand Mobile 1 will be able to handle Dextron.
Jeff I can remember seeing gobs of references to using Type F instead
of Dextron here. "Withstand Mobil 1"? What do you mean by that? It's
not grinding compound. Do you allude to its superior slickness? If so
then I "gotcha".
>
>Worrying about ATF coming thru a bad crank seal is downright silly.
>From Daves' diatribe you would think that it will cause the lower end to
>spontaneously disolve. It will still lubricate and foul your plug, just
>like motor oil.
I disagree. I'm not so worried about the bearings as I am the
piston/rings. There is a reason ATF is not used to lubricate pistons
and rings-like seizure perhaps? Just how long will a ATF lubricated
piston last? I'm not sure. How long will a Mobil 1 lubricated piston
last? About a gazillion miles-for sure.
> How long are you really going to be able to ride with a
>bad seal anyway? Much bigger problems will stop you long before you
>could have any effect on the crank.
Assuming a seal goes immediately from a perfect seal to a huge leak is
just not totally realistic-sure things can change quickly enough to
wear a seal out real fast but its just as possible to be a more
gradual process. Most folks will assume a smokey exhaust to be a
jetting problem before a crank seal going bad. A slightly bad crank
seal may only let fluid leak by when cold, (smokey startups) but seals
better when warm. Any way you look at it, gradual or catastrophic
ingestion of crap like ATF into the bore of any motor will compromise
proper function to some extent. Just my layman opinion.
>
>-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
>j...@fc.hp.com '88 XR600-Shamu(4sale)
>'99 ATK 260LQ-Stink Wheels '94 XR650L-DreamSickle
>We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding.
Dave "always in trouble about oil" Dude
96yz250
Sadfer
<snip>
>
>
> Automatic transmissions have gears and wet clutches JUST LIKE A 2s
> GEARBOX. ATF can handle 1000s of horsepower. I'm sure it'll survive
> 40hp.
>
>
> <snip>
> If motor oil is so good in a gearbox environment, why don't car
> manufacturers put it in their automatic transmissions or their
> gearboxes?
I don't know the answer to that but my first guess would be concerns of
longevity & ability to resist contaminants.
Conversely - why don't bike manufactures use/recommend ATF for gearbox
environments.
I've tried it & didn't see improvements, same for GearSaver et al and also
Mobil 1. Because I'm frugal (cheap) and that its recommended by bike
manufactures I use motor oil & change it often.
The Deeneys
Dave Dude wrote in message <3993cb4f....@news.grlnd1.tx.home.com>...
>On 10 Aug 2000 17:03:13 GMT,
>nos...@thank.you@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Jeff Deeney) wrote:
>
>When was Type F designed? You might could say its "precambrian" or how
>about "jurassic juice". Mobil 1 15w 50 still has the good stuff in
>it-hasn't been removed yet like the other weights. Unless MXTUNER and
>RR have been fillin me fulla sh*t. There is a difference in labeling.
Newer isn't always better. I would not use anything SJ rated in a
transmission
and clutch. From SH to SJ, they removed some of the anti-wear components.
BMW did a study that seems to point to increased pitting and wear in
transmissions with SJ rated oils. If you want to use Mobile 1, you'll
have to go to the specialty 4S motorcycle oil. It's a couple buck more.
This is what I run in my 4-strokes.
>>I always thought you wanted to use Dextron, rather than type F ATF. The
>>type F has a friction modifier intended to prevent slippage of weak
>>clutches. It seems that this would reduce it's lubricating ability.
>>Any clutch that can withstand Mobile 1 will be able to handle Dextron.
>
>Jeff I can remember seeing gobs of references to using Type F instead
>of Dextron here. "Withstand Mobil 1"? What do you mean by that? It's
>not grinding compound. Do you allude to its superior slickness? If so
>then I "gotcha".
Here's what I was trying to say. I'm seeing a lot of recommendations
for type F, rather than Dexton. Many people seem worried that Dextron
ATF will be too slippery for their clutches. I do not contest that Mobile
1 is more slippery than either type F or Dextron. I was suggesting that
if Mobile 1 isn't too slippery for clutches, than Dextron should be fine.
Based on your testimonial, I'll give Mobile1 a try in my StinkWheels.
I won't be using the car formulation tho.
>I disagree. I'm not so worried about the bearings as I am the
>piston/rings. There is a reason ATF is not used to lubricate pistons
>and rings-like seizure perhaps? Just how long will a ATF lubricated
>piston last? I'm not sure. How long will a Mobil 1 lubricated piston
>last? About a gazillion miles-for sure.
I still find your arguement specious. Regardless what oil is leaking
into the crank, you will still have your 2S oil in the fuel. Regardless
of quality of lubrication, I don't see how additional oil can degrade
things. Perhaps there's some chemical reaction between ATF
and 2S oil? Do they spontaneously turn into a gummy abrasive?
-Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR UTMA BRC COHVCO AMA
dee...@frii.nospam.com '88 XR600(4sale)-Shamu
David Jones
wrote:
<snip>
>>Worrying about ATF coming thru a bad crank seal is downright silly.
>>From Daves' diatribe you would think that it will cause the lower end to
>>spontaneously disolve. It will still lubricate and foul your plug, just
>>like motor oil.
>
>I disagree. I'm not so worried about the bearings as I am the
>piston/rings. There is a reason ATF is not used to lubricate pistons
>and rings-like seizure perhaps? Just how long will a ATF lubricated
>piston last? I'm not sure. How long will a Mobil 1 lubricated piston
>last? About a gazillion miles-for sure.
Remember the story around a year ago about the guy who was in a hurry
at the gas station. He ended up putting in fork oil instead of premix
oil. Said he couldn't notice the diff.......
<snip>
>
>>
>>-Jeffrey
>
>Dave
David Y2KTM2E
Email: djo...@cyberhighway.net
http://www.cyberhighway.net/~djones/
Home of the "The Very Unofficial RMD Page"
Mike Baxter
>
> Dave "always in trouble about oil" Dude
> 96yz250
And you should be stooge boy! :-) ATF has worked great for me in my '97 YZ250.
It has no sludge in the cases. My YZ has had mobil 1 in it exactly one time.
The shifting did not improve 1 little bit. So, I will continue to use my stock
clutch plates that I abuse to no end, letting them bathe in ATF.
I can't wait to abuse the cltch on my new bike!!!
--
Mike Baxter
David Jones
wrote:
<snip>
>I can't wait to abuse the cltch on my new bike!!!
Hmmmm, now we just have to figure out what kind of new bike comes with
a "cltch".............<G>
Mike Baxter
> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:30:01 -0700, Mike Baxter <mba...@cybeq.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
> >I can't wait to abuse the cltch on my new bike!!!
>
> Hmmmm, now we just have to figure out what kind of new bike comes with
> a "cltch".............<G>
My new bike has a clutch pull that's so easy it doesn't even need a vowel!
--
Mike Baxter
Cliff Polston
> On 10 Aug 2000 17:03:13 GMT,
> nos...@thank.you@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE (Jeff Deeney) wrote:
>
> >: That was the point I was making-are you okay? ATF is not good oil.
> >: it's more like glorified hydraulic fluid. Something appears to be
> >: wrong with you cognitive abilities. Weak again..
> >
> >: Degradation of lubrication if ATF is sucked in. No degradation of
> >: lubrication if Mobil 1 is sucked in. Why do I have to spell this out
> >: for you? Really weak today Uwe.
> >
> >I will have to vehemently disagree with the above slanderous statements.
>
> Friends of ATF, stand up and be counted!<G>
Type F works well in the old air cooled KDX. Shifting is much smoother than
anything else. However when we've used Type F in any water cooled bike
('97CR250 and 99GGEC200), it degrades quickly. Didn't even last long
enough to finish the short loop of an enduro. Still the best for the KDX
though.
Tried Mobil 1 and didn't see a difference over non-synthetic motor oil.
Scored some Elf Moto-T from contengency drawings on the RMEC. Now that
stuff is the sheee-ite. Very smooth shifting in both the CR and the EC. The
clincher for us was with the '97CR. That model has aluminum clutch plates
stock. With other oils, the oil was always grey from aluminum
contamination. We're not seeing the aluminum contamination with the Moto-T.
The down side is that the clutch is a little sticky until the oil warms up.
Moto-T for us until something better comes along.
YMMV
Cliff
David Jones
wrote:
>David Jones wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 11 Aug 2000 08:30:01 -0700, Mike Baxter <mba...@cybeq.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>> >I can't wait to abuse the cltch on my new bike!!!
>>
>> Hmmmm, now we just have to figure out what kind of new bike comes with
>> a "cltch".............<G>
>My new bike has a clutch pull that's so easy it doesn't even need a vowel!
And the smoke clears! This, and another hint I got today, leads me to
believe one of my two guesses was correct. Congrats!
David & Lori
8/10/00 8:05 PM:
> If motor oil is so good in a gearbox environment, why don't car
> manufacturers put it in their automatic transmissions or their
> gearboxes?
>
>
> Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
Actually Uwe in the mid-1980's GM recommended 5/30 motor oil in most of the
Borg Warner five speed and some manual Trans axles used in there cars and
light trucks. Now most GM manual transmissions do use ATF or $25. a quart
syncro-mesh fluid ( it looks like 5/30). I still say use what the
manufacturer recommends and change it often for many trouble free motoring
miles.
David Tharp
00 WR 400
Uwe Hale
> When was Type F designed? You might could say its "precambrian" or
> how about "jurassic juice".
When was your 2stroke designed? When did gas come around? What about
spark plugs? 2 centuries ago!!! With your time table it would have been before
the big bang. Get rid of that ancient motor. Buy the nuclear powered
dirtbike.
> It is amazing stuff-Type F currently circulates thru my power steering
> system in my old station wagon and also the transmission.
It not only runs through it, it also lubricates the gears and wet clutches in
your transmission. It cleans and suspends clutch particles and carries them
to the filter too.
> Hydraulic in
> nature, yes?
Isn't every liquid?
> 1. Getting to neutral on the Dt was always a bee-atch with bel-ray,
> now with Mobil 1 it just "snicks" in there ever sooooo smoooth. Big
> difference in performance.
When did they start having races to see how quickly you can get into neutral?
Did you get a trophy? Where's the race report? <g>
> suspension. With the Mobil 1 there is only a slight discoloration at
> best. Almost no particles in held in suspension. Quite obviously a
> superior lubricant for the application.
Is it obvious? Or does it just not clean and hold particles in suspension as
well?
> Then there is the noise
> factor-With ATF the gearbox noise was highly noticeable and
> disconcerting . Much quieter with mobil 1.
Hitting that 99DB limit and not letting you enter? Add sawdust, it'll make it
even quieter.
> I disagree. I'm not so worried about the bearings as I am the
> piston/rings. There is a reason ATF is not used to lubricate pistons
> and rings-like seizure perhaps? Just how long will a ATF lubricated
> piston last? I'm not sure. How long will a Mobil 1 lubricated piston
> last? About a gazillion miles-for sure.
Let me know when you reach a gazillion miles on your 60:1 Mobil 1 lubed
piston. Just so we'll be for sure. Then I'll do the same with ATF and run a
infizillion miles more.
Actually, ATF breaks down from heat quickly. But like the other poster said,
you still have your premix coming in. Plus, the oil from the seal is
constantly refreshed.
> better when warm. Any way you look at it, gradual or catastrophic
> ingestion of crap like ATF into the bore of any motor will compromise
> proper function to some extent.
Any extra oil will compromise proper function. I wouldn't be surprised if
Mobil 1 would stop the bike due to a fouled plug before ATF would.
Let see: Your ideal oil runs quiet, doesn't clean, doesn't suspend particles,
and lets you shift into neutral quickly and will let the bike run for a
qazillion miles with a blown crank seal? Does that sum it up?
<VBG>
Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
Uwe Hale
> Actually Uwe in the mid-1980's GM recommended 5/30 motor oil in most of the
> Borg Warner five speed and some manual Trans axles used in there cars and
> light trucks.
I'll believe that. Chrysler/Dodge used ATF in some of their 1960's muslce
cars.
>I still say use what the
> manufacturer recommends and change it often for many trouble free motoring
> miles.
Can't go wrong there, but you might do better.
Uwe Hale
> My new bike has a clutch pull that's so easy it doesn't even need a vowel!
TM?
Dave Dude
jumped on DD's ass and tried to stick it in:
>In article <3993cb4f....@news.grlnd1.tx.home.com>, Dave Dude wrote:
>
>> When was Type F designed? You might could say its "precambrian" or
>> how about "jurassic juice".
>
>When was your 2stroke designed? When did gas come around? What about
>spark plugs? 2 centuries ago!!! With your time table it would have been before
>the big bang. Get rid of that ancient motor. Buy the nuclear powered
>dirtbike.
You bastard. Made me laugh. But stick to the subject-or I'll get Jeff
to get "vehement" with you.
>
>> It is amazing stuff-Type F currently circulates thru my power steering
>> system in my old station wagon and also the transmission.
>
>It not only runs through it, it also lubricates the gears and wet clutches in
>your transmission.
Its supposed to. It works under pressure there too, which helps. Water
under pressure will lube better than non pressurized water.
I must make a correction, Type F is only used in the power steering
system on my old wagon. Definitely a hydraulic application. Maybe you
and Baxter can save even more money and run cheap pump jack fluid in
your gearboxes. Don't get any on painted surfaces-it will eat the
paint off. Sounds like a good "lube", eh?<G> I use Dextron II in the
AOD. Supposedly if I run type f in the AOD it will screw it up. Mr.
Deeney may be using a more suitable ATF fluid in his stinkwheels after
all..
> It cleans and suspends clutch particles and carries them
>to the filter too.
And you never ever found any sludge at all in the bottom of all the
transmission pans you've pulled? yeah-right. I can't recall ever
seeing a recommendation to clean parts in ATF-a "suitable solvent" is
called for. But perhaps you allude to the "solvent" like nature of
type F and I agree it is more of a solvent than Mobil 1.
>
>> Hydraulic in
>> nature, yes?
>
>Isn't every liquid?
Some more so than others.
>> 1. Getting to neutral on the Dt was always a bee-atch with bel-ray,
>> now with Mobil 1 it just "snicks" in there ever sooooo smoooth. Big
>> difference in performance.
>
>When did they start having races to see how quickly you can get into neutral?
> Did you get a trophy? Where's the race report? <g>
Bastard. Made me laugh again. Where that(finding neutral easily) helps
is out marking trail where I am constantly stopping and starting and
yes I did get a trophy for that(Outstanding Contributor-Red River AMA
National Enduro) at the last RRDR meeting for spending so much time
working on the trails and have posted about trail marking experiences
plenty of times. Getting to neutral easily is a general indicator of
improved overall shifting performance. Poon.
>
>> suspension. With the Mobil 1 there is only a slight discoloration at
>> best. Almost no particles in held in suspension. Quite obviously a
>> superior lubricant for the application.
>
>Is it obvious? Or does it just not clean and hold particles in suspension as
>well?
I think less particles are being generated.
Ask your boys with the "clean" gearboxes what color their ATF comes
out. I'll bet it's black. That's alot of particles from somewhere. Is
that normal or a good thing? I would venture to say-not. What is the
peak temperature your dirtbike clutch gets to? Depends on how you ride
of course but I'll bet it can easily get hotter than the temp limit on
type F or dextron. Normal operating temps for the AOD are from 150 to
170 F. Other automobile transmissions will have similar operating
temps. That's pretty low temperature.
Do you run to your neighbors to show off the black oil you just
drained? (Uwe runs to his next door neighbor with a pan of oil and
proclaims-"Gee this oil is soooo black it must be cleaning everything
good" The neighbor calls the mental hospital and has Uwe committed)
Mobil 1 will handle friggin combustion chamber temps so it's
damn sure gonna handle high clutch temps better than ATF.
>
>> Then there is the noise
>> factor-With ATF the gearbox noise was highly noticeable and
>> disconcerting . Much quieter with mobil 1.
>
>Hitting that 99DB limit and not letting you enter? Add sawdust, it'll make it
>even quieter.
Noise is bad. Quiet is good.
>
>> I disagree. I'm not so worried about the bearings as I am the
>> piston/rings. There is a reason ATF is not used to lubricate pistons
>> and rings-like seizure perhaps? Just how long will a ATF lubricated
>> piston last? I'm not sure. How long will a Mobil 1 lubricated piston
>> last? About a gazillion miles-for sure.
>
>Let me know when you reach a gazillion miles on your 60:1 Mobil 1 lubed
>piston. Just so we'll be for sure. Then I'll do the same with ATF and run a
> infizillion miles more.
>
>Actually, ATF breaks down from heat quickly. But like the other poster said,
>you still have your premix coming in. Plus, the oil from the seal is
>constantly refreshed.
I think it's more like your premix oil is getting displaced by a
fluid(ATF) that will not lubricate well in a combustion environment.
Anywhere the ATF is in the bore proper lube is not. That means
unnecessary wear or premature failure. I can't see where adding a poor
lubricant to a good one makes a better lubricant.
Why don't you mix up some ATF with some gas and run it through your
GAGGAS? Bet you don't get a infizillon miles or even a couple. Hey
maybe you could save money by "refreshing" your premix oil with some
ATF before mixing it with gas- use the good black stuff you drain from
your gearbox.
>
>> better when warm. Any way you look at it, gradual or catastrophic
>> ingestion of crap like ATF into the bore of any motor will compromise
>> proper function to some extent.
>
>Any extra oil will compromise proper function. I wouldn't be surprised if
>Mobil 1 would stop the bike due to a fouled plug before ATF would.
Hey man, lets race identical bikes with identically blown crank seals.
Yours sucks ATF, mine sucks Mobil 1 through the seals. Should be
interesting.
>
>Let see: Your ideal oil runs quiet, doesn't clean, doesn't suspend particles,
>and lets you shift into neutral quickly and will let the bike run for a
>qazillion miles with a blown crank seal? Does that sum it up?
Uwe you are such a goof. I want to give you a big hug. Man I just read
yet another article in a dirt bike magazine that says don't use
slippery automotive oils in dirtbike gearboxes. That's about five
anti-synthetic automotive oil slams I've read this year. They didn't
come out and say Mobil 1 specifically, but you know its that class of
oils they are talking about. General consensus here is to take what
the rags say with a grain of salt, too. The Mobil 1 15w-50 I use was
recommended by MXtuner when he used to post here because it still had
the additives removed from the other weights of Mobil 1 and I think
there were other reasons but I forgot. It appears to work better than
anything I've used so far and I can rationalize its use(in my mind)
better than anything I've tried also. There might indeed be problems
with using Mobil 1 15w-50 but I have yet to encounter any. I'm not
about to get militantly brand-loyal or vehement about its use-should
something else come along that can be proven better to me I would
consider using it.
>
><VBG>
>
>Uwe Hale - 99 GasGas EC200, 89 YZ250WR
>http://www.rrdr.org
>http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
>
>
Dave " Specious Oil Stooge" Dude(shincter muscle clamped shut-no
penetration allowed)
96yz250
David & Lori
davey...@home.com wrote on 8/12/00 11:11 AM:
> Uwe you are such a goof. I want to give you a big hug. Man I just read
> yet another article in a dirt bike magazine that says don't use
> slippery automotive oils in dirtbike gearboxes. That's about five
> anti-synthetic automotive oil slams I've read this year. They didn't
> come out and say Mobil 1 specifically, but you know its that class of
> oils they are talking about. General consensus here is to take what
> the rags say with a grain of salt, too. The Mobil 1 15w-50 I use was
> recommended by MXtuner when he used to post here because it still had
> the additives removed from the other weights of Mobil 1 and I think
> there were other reasons but I forgot. It appears to work better than
> anything I've used so far and I can rationalize its use(in my mind)
> better than anything I've tried also. There might indeed be problems
> with using Mobil 1 15w-50 but I have yet to encounter any. I'm not
> about to get militantly brand-loyal or vehement about its use-should
> something else come along that can be proven better to me I would
> consider using it.
Ok! while you are giving Uwe a hug I will be riding my WR with the oil
Yamaha recommends..... And you know what my clutch works ( as long as I keep
my son off of my bike)
David T
00 WR 400
Cliff Polston
Uwe Hale <ha...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:VA.0000106d.00834915@uwe98...
> In article <39942A6B...@cybeq.com>, Mike Baxter wrote:
>
> > My new bike has a clutch pull that's so easy it doesn't even need a
vowel!
>
> TM?
>
>
DirtCrashr
>And the smoke clears! This, and another hint I got today, leads me to
>believe one of my two guesses was correct. Congrats!
>
>David Y2KTM2E
Actually it needs a vowl, but only one - the same one twice. :-)
DirtCrashr - '97ktm300mxc '95cb1000
D-36 BRC COHVCO HHORA...and AMA
Pekka Hänninen
<20000814125001...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
>>>My new bike has a clutch pull that's so easy it doesn't even need a
vowel!
>
>
>Actually it needs a vowl, but only one - the same one twice. :-)
Praga?
--
Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
DirtCrashr
>
>
>Praga?
>--
>Pekka Hänninen, OH7XC
>97 KTM125EXC, 95 RM125
Sure looks like it - even has Brembo brakes and Paioli forks! :-)
http://www.praga.cz/moto/moto-brzdy.htm
zwge...@gmail.com
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