'87 CR forks "The Best"?
Mike McClendon
Time and time again I read about the '87 CR forks being the best front
suspension ever made, the standard to compare all others to. Read this
most recently from the r.m.d. contributors to "MX top ten," but the dirt
mags have long said the same thing for bikes not intended for supercross.
They are non-inverted forks, with a compression cartridge (not damper rods),
anything else that makes them magical? Aren't these the _same_ forks used
on newer XR's? Are they really that good?
Friend has his '87 CR500 for sale, so I took it for a test ride -- always
wanted to try a 500, plus check out these magic forks. Still don't know
how good those forks are -- after my first twist on the throttle, I don't
think the front tire ever came back to the ground . . .
Mike
Mike Baxter
>
>Time and time again I read about the '87 CR forks being the best front
>suspension ever made, the standard to compare all others to. Read this
>most recently from the r.m.d. contributors to "MX top ten," but the dirt
>mags have long said the same thing for bikes not intended for supercross.
>
>They are non-inverted forks, with a compression cartridge (not damper rods),
>anything else that makes them magical? Aren't these the _same_ forks used
>on newer XR's? Are they really that good?
My '87 CR125 had great forks. My '91 CR250's forks sucked really bad.
It's hard for me to compare the '87 CR forks to any others now that I
ride better/faster than I did when I owned it.
The forks on the newer XR's are cartridge forks, but I doubt they are
the same. Even if they are they have to support alot more weight than on
a CR. I would take a mint condition '87 CR250 over a mint condition '91
model anything, but that's as far as I would go.
>
>Friend has his '87 CR500 for sale, so I took it for a test ride -- always
>wanted to try a 500, plus check out these magic forks. Still don't know
>how good those forks are -- after my first twist on the throttle, I don't
>think the front tire ever came back to the ground . . .
Imagine that?!!
_____________________________________________________________________________
DoD #359 '94 YZ 250 | Mike Baxter
AMA #607249 BBCFORR #1 |
was TCCRA #P61 "Team D." | bax...@spdc.ti.com
Pro Class - Texas Cross Country Racing |
Thanks to: Acerbis & Two Wheel World | Texas Instruments, Dallas Tx.
_______________________________________|_____________________________________
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed above are my very own, becuase
if they were worth anything TI would patent them.
Thumper
> My '87 CR125 had great forks. My '91 CR250's forks sucked really bad.
> It's hard for me to compare the '87 CR forks to any others now that I
> ride better/faster than I did when I owned it.
I had an '87 500 for a while, and I just don't see where all the hype
comes from. YES, the forks are pretty darn decent, even now, for a
bike that's closer to being vintage than modern.
BUT, I don't think the forks can compare at ALL to the WP forks fitted
to my '92 KTM 250. Not even in the same ballpark for plushness, not
to mention total external adjustablility is nice when you are setting
things up.
And yes, although I know that magazine editors love to talk about
the '87 cartridge showas, when Tom Webb built that very trick XR 668
(that dual sport machine), he put on a set of '93 CR inverts.
And on his ISDE husaberg, he mounted Marzocchis, not old showas.
..just my two cents...
Lori Hansen
: My '87 CR125 had great forks. My '91 CR250's forks sucked really bad.
: ride better/faster than I did when I owned it.
: The forks on the newer XR's are cartridge forks, but I doubt they are
: the same. Even if they are they have to support alot more weight than on
: a CR. I would take a mint condition '87 CR250 over a mint condition '91
: model anything, but that's as far as I would go.
The forks from the '87 CR250 are the same as the forks on the recent-year
XR600s. Yes, you have to put stiffer springs in to make them work well
(even if you aren't a heavy guy like me the stock springs are too soft.)
On a different note, just came back from the San Francisco area (business).
Didn't enjoy it at all. Feinstein land. Yech. Good Lord, her name is
even plastered on Pier 39, a tourist attraction/shopping area. Couldn't
walk a block without a street person asking for money. And San Francisco
is supposed to be so Democratic and liberal, but I've seen more beggars there
than I've seen anywhere else I've gone. (Course, I'm probably pissing
someone off that lives there, but oh well.) Let's just say I'm happy to
be back in San Diego, where a study showed that 3% of the off-road
need is met in the county!
-Jeremy
jer...@amcc.com
--
Lori
Bob
>bax...@cauldron.spdc.ti.com (Mike Baxter) wrote:
>> My '87 CR125 had great forks. My '91 CR250's forks sucked really bad.
>> It's hard for me to compare the '87 CR forks to any others now that I
>> ride better/faster than I did when I owned it.
>
>I had an '87 500 for a while, and I just don't see where all the hype
>comes from. YES, the forks are pretty darn decent, even now, for a
>bike that's closer to being vintage than modern.
The point is that its one of the best 'production' years made. Sure,
you can take you stock boingers, send 'em off to race tech, spend $500
and have something that works a *whole* lot better, but, the '87s were
excellent out of the box. Honda seems to have dropped the ball on
production quality suspension, but at least it *can* be fixed.
>And yes, although I know that magazine editors love to talk about
>the '87 cartridge showas, when Tom Webb built that very trick XR 668
>(that dual sport machine), he put on a set of '93 CR inverts.
Probably because the triple clamps pretty much just bolt on from CR to
XR's of those years. Anyway, when you start to believe what magazine
editors say, beyond a grain of salt, you'll believe anything. They actaully
said that the '89 inverts were good, and you could only improve them
moderately aftermarket. They had to be the worst pieces of crap ever
delivered by honda.
>And on his ISDE husaberg, he mounted Marzocchis, not old showas.
Anyone ride the new Marzocchis yet?!!
Chaos
Jeff Dunham
|> >And on his ISDE husaberg, he mounted Marzocchis, not old showas.
|>
|> Anyone ride the new Marzocchis yet?!!
|>
|> Chaos
He actually pulled off the stock white power units which aren't
too shabby and put on the marzochi's.
I just sold my white power suspended XR250R to a friend so I am
in the market for a new XR and new suspension. I called up the
local suspension shop, Pro-Calibre and spoke to their suspension
tuner. He is riding a 95 ktm250sx, says he loves the forks but he
has blown out the fork seals twice doing some hard landings. He also
told me they are fully adjustable.
I am trying to decide between :
1. Marzochi's
2. White Power 4054 or 4057 IBS
3. Ohlins Conventional fork
Anyone know if I can get the ohlins fork cheaper in Europe. Noleen
wants $3000.00 for them. I don't think that they are worth that, especially
considering that I can get a set of Marzochi's or WP's for around $1300.00.
I have definitely decided on going for the Ohlins shock in the rear over
the white power unit. Any comments from '95 ktm owners on the difference
between the white power ibs shock and the new ohlins being supplied on the
ktm's? How 'bout a comparison of the Marzochi fork versus the white power
4057 IBS fork?
jeff
--
jeff dunham 1994 KX250-K1
jdu...@wv.mentorg.com 1993 XR250R (sold!)
(503)685-4835
David Wray
>From: jdu...@wv.mentorg.com (Jeff Dunham)
>Subject: Re: '87 CR forks
>Date: 16 Dec 1994 20:27:08 GMT
>jeff
Well lets see ... I had a 93 KTM 300 ... now I have a 95 KTM 300 ... but the
94s had the IBS feature, not the 93s ... but anyway time to spew some
comparisons...
First background ... I am an east coast tight woods junky ... live in NC, ride
in NC, VA, and SC mostly ... so all tight woods ... all enduro terrain. I
weigh 150 lbs and the AMA calls me an A rider (I do have a 1st place open A
thanks to the 93 KTM :-> , but I also had several mid pack placings too ...
if I don't like the course I don't ride fast enough :-(
I believe that you can set up almost any bike to have almost any kind of
suspension ... and it just happens that the 95 is more plush stock than the
93 ... maybe the 95 is too plush (don't know what the guys out west will do).
Basically, the Marzochi's win in ultra plushness (tight woods, 1st & 2nd gear,
leaning in turns that have bumps, root, rocks in them, front wheel tracking
better than anything I've ever been on) ... the Marzochi's win in taking out
the "sting" so to speak (no sharp jolts to the wrist (remember, though ...
this is east coast enduro like stuff ... haven't hit a cinder block at 60mph))
The Marzochi's lose in accurate precise feeling (the 93 felt more crisp, more
precise) ... they lose in confidence to smack stuff (I would jump more stuff
in the woods with the 93, not sure why yet).
Again, I'm not a *big* believer (maybe a little believer) in the USD vs.
convential fork thing ... a softer fork with less spring preload is going to
react to small bumps, but then be less precise sometimes because they stroke
through so much of their travel. I think I could set the Marzochi's up to be
stiff as crap and then set up a pair of White Power USDs to be nice, smooth,
and plush.
Let me know if you want more verbage ...
David
---- David Wray ---- 95 KTM 300 EXC ----- 94 Husky 610 ----- 92 VFR750 ---
Floris Bonthond
Hi, I live in france and here the Ohlins forks are available for
30000 French Francs which is roughly equal to 6000 USD. You are
lucky in the States, everything is a lot cheaper than in Europe.
Floris.
Merrill Hoekstra
>bax...@cauldron.spdc.ti.com (Mike Baxter) wrote:
>I had an '87 500 for a while, and I just don't see where all the hype
>comes from. YES, the forks are pretty darn decent, even now, for a
>bike that's closer to being vintage than modern.
>BUT, I don't think the forks can compare at ALL to the WP forks fitted
>to my '92 KTM 250. Not even in the same ballpark for plushness, not
>to mention total external adjustablility is nice when you are setting
>things up.
My 87 CR 500's forks were revalved for woods by White Bros and installed
progressive springs when I lived in New England. I have not ridden any
other bike where the forks responded better to small roots, rocks, etc.
These are the plushest forks ever. My 91 KTM is close, and more easily
maintained/adjusted, but for initial travel, the CR is the plushest.
>And yes, although I know that magazine editors love to talk about
>the '87 cartridge showas, when Tom Webb built that very trick XR 668
>(that dual sport machine), he put on a set of '93 CR inverts.
I figure Tom Webb probably got these forks for free from Bruce Oglvie (sp?),
former desert hero, now Honda USA representative. I doubt Honda is
interested in hyping 7 year old forks which would only serve to highlight
the deficiency they have had in their recent efforts.
>And on his ISDE husaberg, he mounted Marzocchis, not old showas.
Same here. I'm sure the Marzo rep gave them to him for a free test ride.
Why would any manufacturer want to see a bunch of pictures and plugs in a
magazine for a design they discontinued almost a decade ago? Those magazine
guys rarely publish any pictures of bikes more than a model year or two old.
[Unless you count crash and burn]
>..just my two cents...
Now my two cents. I went to the White Brothers "World 4 Stroke
Champoinships" at Glen Helen in 1992. Most of the builders of bikes in this
form of racing are not affiliated with the big factories, so they use what
works for them, not what they are trying to sell. Walking through the pits
on practice day, I ran into the builder/mechanic for "Rocket" Rex Staten,
who placed second the next day. He had an ATK frame, swingarm and 600+ cc
motor on a workstand. To the frame was connected a fork he said "came from
a Suzuki," an Ohlins shock, and brakes from a Honda. He had added an extra
rear brake to the countershaft one, a design which I think now comes on all
ATK's. He had several other parts cobbled from other bikes including the
wheels and carb.
Most bikes in the pits were of this conglomeratory nature. It was
interesting and educational to me since I get the same new bike fever
everyone else does when I read the latest magazines. In fact, anyone want
to trade my 250 and 500 for something made in 94 or 95?
__________________________
Merrill Hoekstra, Colorado Springs, CO | 91 KTM 250 Woods Bike
hoekstramc%df...@dfmail2.usafa.af.mil | 87 CR 500 Harmful Side Effects
voice: 719-472-3080 AMA #533375, RMEC, Racers Under the Son, COHVCO, BRC
Mike Baxter
>In article <thumperD...@netcom.com> Thumper <thu...@netcom.com> writes:
>
>>bax...@cauldron.spdc.ti.com (Mike Baxter) wrote:
>
>>I had an '87 500 for a while, and I just don't see where all the hype
>>comes from. YES, the forks are pretty darn decent, even now, for a
>>bike that's closer to being vintage than modern.
>
Now don't go putting words in my mouth. I never owned a '87 CR500, but instead
just a little ole '87 CR125 that spanked most '89 and '90 models except for the
newer CR's.
Jeff Dunham
|> In article <3cst6s$n...@hpbab.wv>
|> jdu...@wv.mentorg.com (Jeff Dunham) writes:
|>
|> > in the market for a new XR and new suspension. I called up the
|>
|> buy a NEW XR + suspensions + engine kit, wouldn't you be better out
|> considering a Husky or Husaberg (350 or 501/600/610)? You can probably
|> find some rel deal on new '94 models these days. You'ld get a solid
|> (read flex free) frame, good suspensions out of the box and more HP for
|> about the same weight and probably only a few $$$ more. I've heard
|> only good things from Mazzafero kited Husky 420's for example (but
|> unless you start with a used bike, the price is getting up there!).
|>
Yeah, Yeah, I know, and I keep telling you I want a bike with an oil
pump not a reed valve... :-) I did look at the husaberg; but the cost
was $6600.00, and I can build a helluva XR for *alot* less (mainly because
I get all my parts at near dealer cost these days).
The frame doesn't flex on the XR all that much. They stiffened the chassis
and the swingarm in '91 but noone noticed because the triple clamps are
so wimpy. With white powers on an XR it is rock solid.
|> Now, you're probably like me and like to tinker, so no stock bike is
|> good enough for us! That's why I am currently considering building my
|> own 80cc framed XR120 (or 160)... Do you know anybody selling a late
|> model 80 cc MX rolling chassis or an XR100 engine?
|>
Sounds like fun. The price for a used XR100 is pretty stable around here
at about 900 to 1000 dollars.
|> BTW, I was in Seattle early this week (Monday), and while we landed at
|> Tacoma, I was wondering where the good riding areas are. IS it a 3+
|> hour drive to get to anything decent like in the Bay Area?
|>
It is about an hour and half to a good riding area. Where you can put
in a 60 to a 100 mile loop.
--
jeff dunham 1994 KX250-K1
jdu...@wv.mentorg.com 1993 XR250R
Thumper!
: >And yes, although I know that magazine editors love to talk about
: >the '87 cartridge showas, when Tom Webb built that very trick XR 668
: >(that dual sport machine), he put on a set of '93 CR inverts.
: I figure Tom Webb probably got these forks for free from Bruce Oglvie (sp?),
: former desert hero, now Honda USA representative. I doubt Honda is
: interested in hyping 7 year old forks which would only serve to highlight
: the deficiency they have had in their recent efforts.
According to what he said, he BOUGHT those forks. In addition, given that
it was personal bike, why would he change the forks at all? Remember, XR's
come with the exact same Showa Cartridge forks that '87 CRs did. And to
throw a piece more fuel on the fire, why does Scott Summers replace HIS
Showas for WP units it the Showas are better?
: >And on his ISDE husaberg, he mounted Marzocchis, not old showas.
: Same here. I'm sure the Marzo rep gave them to him for a free test ride.
: Why would any manufacturer want to see a bunch of pictures and plugs in a
: magazine for a design they discontinued almost a decade ago? Those magazine
: guys rarely publish any pictures of bikes more than a model year or two old.
: [Unless you count crash and burn]
Here, you may correct that he got the forks for free. But he was also
competeing in the ISDE qualifiers which are bad enough as it is. There were
lots of opportunities to test out the Marzocchi units at other races not
nearly as hardcore as the ISDE.
Again, I had an '87 CR500 and I don't think those forks compare in any way
to the WP forks on a '92 KTM (especially once revalved).
--
Thumper! Leporidae Extraordinhare
thu...@netcom.com
"The point of life is to achieve the impossible."
Denis Concordel
jdu...@wv.mentorg.com (Jeff Dunham) writes:
> Yeah, Yeah, I know, and I keep telling you I want a bike with an oil
> pump not a reed valve... :-) I did look at the husaberg; but the cost
> was $6600.00, and I can build a helluva XR for *alot* less (mainly because
> I get all my parts at near dealer cost these days).
> The frame doesn't flex on the XR all that much. They stiffened the chassis
> and the swingarm in '91 but noone noticed because the triple clamps are
> so wimpy. With white powers on an XR it is rock solid.
>
I am sure that you can pick a '94 350 Husqvarna or Husaberg for less
that $5000 (could be a lot less for the Husky). If you are going to
buy a NEW XR ($3500?), NEW WP + triple clamp ($1000?), a good rear
shock (Ohlins? $500), a big bore kit ($500)... you are getting pretty
damn close to the price of a ready to race NEW bike! But hey, some
people just can't deal with reed valves on a 4 stroke =8-{>}
> |> Now, you're probably like me and like to tinker, so no stock bike is
> |> good enough for us! That's why I am currently considering building my
> |> own 80cc framed XR120 (or 160)... Do you know anybody selling a late
> |> model 80 cc MX rolling chassis or an XR100 engine?
> |>
>
> Sounds like fun. The price for a used XR100 is pretty stable around here
> at about 900 to 1000 dollars.
For what years? They seem a lot less $$$ than around here. I a
looking for a KX80 big wheel framer and a XR100 engine. Any leads? I
might consider buying a whole KX and sell the engine to one of the
go-kart guys. Any isea how much an engine would go for?
> |> BTW, I was in Seattle early this week (Monday), and while we landed at
> |> Tacoma, I was wondering where the good riding areas are. IS it a 3+
> |> hour drive to get to anything decent like in the Bay Area?
> |>
>
> It is about an hour and half to a good riding area. Where you can put
> in a 60 to a 100 mile loop.
Next time I'm around Seattle I'll give you a buzz, maybe you can
introduce me to your garage!
Happy new year,
Denis (who still can't believe he's at work today!)
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Denis Concordel - de...@apldbio.com - AMA#674858 Dist36#308T |
| Don't need no stinking DoD# |
| XT 600 Superbiker - Husaberg FE501 - YZinger50 - XR80 |
| and still looking for a real cheap 80cc MX bike... |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disclaimer: Opinions expressed above might not ,,, |
| reflect the one of my employer. (o o) |
+____________________________________________oOO__( )__OOo___________+
Jeff Dunham
|> jdu...@wv.mentorg.com (Jeff Dunham) writes:
|>
|> > Yeah, Yeah, I know, and I keep telling you I want a bike with an oil
|> > pump not a reed valve... :-) I did look at the husaberg; but the cost
|> > was $6600.00, and I can build a helluva XR for *alot* less (mainly because
|> > I get all my parts at near dealer cost these days).
|> > The frame doesn't flex on the XR all that much. They stiffened the chassis
|> > and the swingarm in '91 but noone noticed because the triple clamps are
|> > so wimpy. With white powers on an XR it is rock solid.
|> >
|>
|> I am sure that you can pick a '94 350 Husqvarna or Husaberg for less
|> that $5000 (could be a lot less for the Husky). If you are going to
|> buy a NEW XR ($3500?), NEW WP + triple clamp ($1000?), a good rear
|> shock (Ohlins? $500), a big bore kit ($500)... you are getting pretty
|> damn close to the price of a ready to race NEW bike! But hey, some
|> people just can't deal with reed valves on a 4 stroke =8-{>}
|>
You are really close on the price on the XR ($3600.00 - I bought one on
friday. Almost had buyers remorse that I didn't get the husaberg. But then
I started looking at the CR nissin brakes, quality welds, wheels, controls,
Honda detailing... umm good.) I rode it up and down the street once after
I got it home. I've got to admit a stock XR is a *dog*.
|> > |> Now, you're probably like me and like to tinker, so no stock bike is
|> > |> good enough for us! That's why I am currently considering building my
|> > |> own 80cc framed XR120 (or 160)... Do you know anybody selling a late
|> > |> model 80 cc MX rolling chassis or an XR100 engine?
|> > |>
|> >
|> > Sounds like fun. The price for a used XR100 is pretty stable around here
|> > at about 900 to 1000 dollars.
|>
|> For what years? They seem a lot less $$$ than around here. I a
|> looking for a KX80 big wheel framer and a XR100 engine. Any leads? I
|> might consider buying a whole KX and sell the engine to one of the
|> go-kart guys. Any isea how much an engine would go for?
|>
No idea what an engine would go for. I'll keep an eye out for both the
KX and the XR here for you here. The xr100 is the same from about '87 on,
I think I have seen models around 1990 in vintage for around $1000.
|> > |> BTW, I was in Seattle early this week (Monday), and while we landed at
|> > |> Tacoma, I was wondering where the good riding areas are. IS it a 3+
|> > |> hour drive to get to anything decent like in the Bay Area?
|> > |>
|> >
|> > It is about an hour and half to a good riding area. Where you can put
|> > in a 60 to a 100 mile loop.
|>
|> Next time I'm around Seattle I'll give you a buzz, maybe you can
|> introduce me to your garage!
|>
Actually, I live in Portland which is about 3-4 hours drive south
of Seattle. I moved down from Seattle five years ago. If you are
ever headed this way, drop me some e-mail and we can hook up. I'll
give you "the tour". I bought a big three car garage with a house
attached last year...
|> Happy new year,
|>
And a very happy new year to you as well!
--
jeff dunham 1994 KX250-K1
jdu...@wv.mentorg.com 1995 XR250R (three days old!)
(503)685-4835
Dope-On-A-Rope
>|> > |> Now, you're probably like me and like to tinker, so no stock bike is
>|> > |> good enough for us! That's why I am currently considering building my
>|> > |> own 80cc framed XR120 (or 160)... Do you know anybody selling a late
>|> > |> model 80 cc MX rolling chassis or an XR100 engine?
>|> > |>
>|> >
>|> > Sounds like fun. The price for a used XR100 is pretty stable around here
>|> > at about 900 to 1000 dollars.
>|>
>|> For what years? They seem a lot less $$$ than around here. I a
>|> looking for a KX80 big wheel framer and a XR100 engine. Any leads? I
>|> might consider buying a whole KX and sell the engine to one of the
>|> go-kart guys. Any isea how much an engine would go for?
>|>
>
Somebody has a 92 KX-80 big wheel for sale at $1400. I'm in Florida.
My brother picked up an 87 YZ80 for $300 in need of a bore and top-end.
Everything else was in great shape. He put about $100 into it and it runs
great. Even us big guys had a blast on it. Damn thing almost shot out
from under me when it the powerband.
I saw Ricky Carmichael on his KX-100 dust off a bunch a guys on 250's
including our local hot shot who gets his CR's for free. He was riding
his brand new 95 CR250R. He likes his 92 better. Funny considering
Dirt Rider just unanimously picked the CR the best in there 250 shoot
out.
|
- Mike | 95 KTM 300 E/XC ???
ges...@bugs-bunny.ncsc.navy.mil | 87 RM 250 "The Anti-Christ"
_|_
These are my views and in no /___\
represesnt the Department of /_____\ Dope-On-A-Rope
Navy or the US Government. /oo oo\ PCH3
\___________________________\ /___________________________/
`-----------|------|--------\_____/--------|------|-----------'
( ) ( ) O|OOo|oOO|O ( ) ( ) On-On
Lori Hansen
: According to what he said, he BOUGHT those forks. In addition, given that
: it was personal bike, why would he change the forks at all? Remember, XR's
: come with the exact same Showa Cartridge forks that '87 CRs did. And to
: throw a piece more fuel on the fire, why does Scott Summers replace HIS
: Showas for WP units it the Showas are better?
Gotta stick my nose in here and say that Summers only uses the WP units where he
feels the no-underhang qualities of the inverted WP forks are advantageous.
Otherwise he does use the Showas.
-Jeremy
jer...@amcc.com
--
Lori