CR500's + Belray MC1 = Rod thru' the case Yeeeiihhh!!!!!
Mark Cronk
of mine, who was informed by a shop that they have seen MC1 oil mixtures eat
open class Hondas while on dyno runs. I run mine on MC1 and I have been
playing with the jetting and the top end is fine, (I pulled it down) but I
always thought it was clanging more than it should. I now have to wonder
whether I have just been lucky, or someone has sent us on a wild 'duck'
chase.
Years ago Belray made an MC3 oil for the open classers, and as I understood,
it was formulated for higher combustion pressures but lower rev ranges (as
compared MC1 for the tiddlers). They seemed to have discontinued the line.
Please, please, please, I would really like to know if I am at risk of
chunking my 500 running MC1 at the recommended ratios (32-40:1). Has
anybody else come across this issue???
Mark
C5FltEngnr
I'm not real fond of MC-1. That said, I don't think that had anything to do
with the engine failure. I would think that it was due to any of the following:
Lean mixture, excessive tolorences, or excessive RPM's. If anything, a big
bore, low RPM enginge should be easier on an oil then a screaming 80-125cc
motor. Even though i don't care for Belray i have to think this would have
happened with any oil. I think you've been sent on a wild "duck" chase
Mark
>Subject: CR500's + Belray MC1 = Rod thru' the case Yeeeiihhh!!!!!
>From: "Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com>
>Date: 02/18/1999 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <7ahod9$e...@pike.ntnet.nt.ca>
C5FLTENGNR
Wishing i was half as good as I'd like to be!
Remove .nospam
fas...@my-dejanews.com
c5flt...@aol.com.nospam (C5FltEngnr) wrote:
> Mark
> I'm not real fond of MC-1. That said, I don't think that had anything to do
> with the engine failure. I would think that it was due to any of the
following:
> Lean mixture, excessive tolorences, or excessive RPM's. If anything, a big
> bore, low RPM enginge should be easier on an oil then a screaming 80-125cc
> motor. Even though i don't care for Belray i have to think this would have
> happened with any oil. I think you've been sent on a wild "duck" chase
> Mark
> >Subject: CR500's + Belray MC1 = Rod thru' the case Yeeeiihhh!!!!!
> >From: "Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com>
> >Date: 02/18/1999 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
> >Message-id: <7ahod9$e...@pike.ntnet.nt.ca>
> >
I agree. Only difference is I do use and like Bel-Ray. I think that when you
hear of a failure involving a dyno that there is another point of failure
other than the oil, unless of course it is a oil which is not made for
motorcycles two-stroke engines. But Bel-Ray? I have used Bel-Ray for 20
years and never had a failure related to Bel-Ray. I use Bel-Ray at 50:1 in
an open bike and a 250. The clanging you hear is probably the result of the
gas or jetting, not the oil. Bel-Ray is a very good oil. That said, I make
room for the Master... Tuner.
Freddie
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
MX Tuner
>I agree. Only difference is I do use and like Bel-Ray. I think that when you
>hear of a failure involving a dyno that there is another point of failure
>other than the oil, unless of course it is a oil which is not made for
>motorcycles two-stroke engines. But Bel-Ray? I have used Bel-Ray for 20
>years and never had a failure related to Bel-Ray. I use Bel-Ray at 50:1 in
>an open bike and a 250. The clanging you hear is probably the result of the
>gas or jetting, not the oil. Bel-Ray is a very good oil. That said, I make
>room for the Master... Tuner.
I agree. I've never heard of a lubrication related failure with
Bel-Ray. I would tend to think something else led to the failure.
MX Tuner
rur...@filenet.com
250s, and open bikes. Never had a problem. I'm sold on the stuff.
Ron Urman
rur...@filenet.com
95L...@my-dejanews.com
"Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com> wrote:
> Open classers - pay attention! I just had a frightening chat with a friend
> of mine, who was informed by a shop that they have seen MC1 oil mixtures eat
> open class Hondas while on dyno runs. I run mine on MC1 and I have been
> playing with the jetting and the top end is fine, (I pulled it down) but I
> always thought it was clanging more than it should. I now have to wonder
> whether I have just been lucky, or someone has sent us on a wild 'duck'
> chase.
>
> Years ago Belray made an MC3 oil for the open classers, and as I understood,
> it was formulated for higher combustion pressures but lower rev ranges (as
> compared MC1 for the tiddlers). They seemed to have discontinued the line.
>
> Please, please, please, I would really like to know if I am at risk of
> chunking my 500 running MC1 at the recommended ratios (32-40:1). Has
> anybody else come across this issue???
>
> Mark
>
>
Bel-Ray. The KDX had bottom end seizes twice in the first 2 years, and the RM
once after approximately 2yrs. Both bikes were maintaned well and once he
switched to Motul, has not had any more problems and just sold both bikes in
the last few months. Don't know if it has to do with the oil or not, but
thought you might like to know. I believe he was running 40:1 or 45:1 ratio
with both oils. Personally I have no opinion on Bel-Ray 2 stroke oil and run
their gear saver in my transmission and it seems to work just fine.
Scott
TBob
I had a 88 yz 250 and ran MC-1+ It ruined my
motor. Let me tell you how. What it does is
crystallize on the top of the piston and eventually
the crystals break off and scratch your ring and
cylinder. Now here's the weird thing about the stuff
my buddy at the time was riding an 86 CR 500
we used the same mix out of the same can every
weekend but his top end was fine. Another friend
of mine had an 89 CR 500 and the crystallization
happened to him as well. So I wouldn't mess with
the stuff there are plenty of good premixes out there
I currently use Power Plus and have been really happy\
with it.
Good Luck,
TBob
MX Tuner wrote in message <36d788d0...@news.mindspring.com>...
Mark Cronk
If the oil itself is OK (I 've been using smellray for years so I thought
the rumor weird) let me go after my clanging issue. What are you guys
running for oil mixtures? I am at essentially stock jetting for alt & temp
and maybe down one on the needle. You enlightened guys will know that high
oil to gas mixtures result in overall lean combustion mixtures. With MC1
recommending 50:1 I am wondering if 32-40:1 (the standard for open class
engines) may be creating an artifically lean mixture.
What are you guys mixing MC1 at? I am using the bike as an enduro machine
(stop laughing!) so I am not too worried about seizing at prolonged WOF
conditions.
Humbly yours
Mark Cronk
Patrick Riley
TBob wrote in message <7ake0d$2...@news.or.intel.com>...
>Yes, It can and will cause engine damage!!!
>I had a 88 yz 250 and ran MC-1+ It ruined my
>motor. Let me tell you how. What it does is
>crystallize on the top of the piston and eventually
>the crystals break off and scratch your ring and
>cylinder. Now here's the weird thing about the stuff
>my buddy at the time was riding an 86 CR 500
>we used the same mix out of the same can every
>weekend but his top end was fine. Another friend
>of mine had an 89 CR 500 and the crystallization
>happened to him as well. So I wouldn't mess with
>the stuff there are plenty of good premixes out there
>I currently use Power Plus and have been really happy\
>with it.
>Good Luck,
> TBob
It seems to me that you made a case for the problem *not* being the MC1.
There are so many variables involved here that I think it is difficult to
point at the oil with so few data points.
Pat Riley
C5FltEngnr
I don't hate BelRay oil. I just never thought it burned very clean. I haven't
used it for some time due to this. I like to run 32:1 or 40:1 ratios, And at
these ratios it seemed like a dirty oil. Same thing for golden spectro. I use
YamaLube 2R now (it came with the bike) and it is pretty clean burning, But I
think that Champion WP2 (formerly Duralube water pumper) is the cleanest
burning oil I have used. Once I use my case of Y-2R I'll try it again in this
bike and see if its still the cleanest.
Mark
>I agree. Only difference is I do use and like Bel-Ray. I think that when you
>hear of a failure involving a dyno that there is another point of failure
>other than the oil, unless of course it is a oil which is not made for
>motorcycles two-stroke engines. But Bel-Ray? I have used Bel-Ray for 20
>years and never had a failure related to Bel-Ray. I use Bel-Ray at 50:1 in
>an open bike and a 250. The clanging you hear is probably the result of the
>gas or jetting, not the oil. Bel-Ray is a very good oil. That said, I make
>room for the Master... Tuner.
>
>Freddie
Patrick Riley
C5FltEngnr wrote in message
<19990219171632...@ng-cg1.aol.com>...
>Freddie
> I don't hate BelRay oil. I just never thought it burned very clean. I
haven't
>used it for some time due to this. I like to run 32:1 or 40:1 ratios, And
at
>these ratios it seemed like a dirty oil. Same thing for golden spectro. I
use
>YamaLube 2R now (it came with the bike) and it is pretty clean burning, But
I
>think that Champion WP2 (formerly Duralube water pumper) is the cleanest
>burning oil I have used. Once I use my case of Y-2R I'll try it again in
this
>bike and see if its still the cleanest.
>Mark
>
I agree about the Yamalube, it seems to be a very decent oil. Another oil I
was very pleased with is Torco. It is harder to find, but I was very
pleased with the 'clean' top ends I had while using Torco.
Pat Riley
Dennis Mesward
MX Tuner wrote in message <36d788d0...@news.mindspring.com>...
>On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 13:42:15 GMT, fas...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
you
>>hear of a failure involving a dyno that there is another point of failure
>>other than the oil, unless of course it is a oil which is not made for
>>motorcycles two-stroke engines. But Bel-Ray? I have used Bel-Ray for 20
>>years and never had a failure related to Bel-Ray. I use Bel-Ray at 50:1
in
>>an open bike and a 250. The clanging you hear is probably the result of
the
>>gas or jetting, not the oil. Bel-Ray is a very good oil. That said, I
make
>>room for the Master... Tuner.
>
>Bel-Ray. I would tend to think something else led to the failure.
>
>MX Tuner
I'm sure you're right, but MC1+ is the only oil I've ever even suspected
oil failures from. I trashed a lower end on my '78 YZ125 & seized a top end
on my '85 Can Am both times using MC1+. I was suspicious enough that I've
never used a Bel-Ray premix oil since.
Denny
Leav Home
like 60 cents per pint. This is pretty cheap, and I could probably save a lot
of money buying this. Is this oil decent enough to be used in a 1984 KX80?
Thanks.
-Franky
98 XR400
84 KX80
>I agree. Only difference is I do use and like Bel-Ray. I think that when you
>hear of a failure involving a dyno that there is another point of failure
>other than the oil, unless of course it is a oil which is not made for
>motorcycles two-stroke engines. But Bel-Ray? I have used Bel-Ray for 20
>years and never had a failure related to Bel-Ray. I use Bel-Ray at 50:1 in
>an open bike and a 250. The clanging you hear is probably the result of the
>gas or jetting, not the oil. Bel-Ray is a very good oil. That said, I make
>room for the Master... Tuner.
>
>Freddie
JOKERKX250
>their gear saver in my transmission and it seems to work just fine.
>Scott
>
Hey...if your looking to save some $$..and very possibly end up with smoother
clutch action......get a bottle of type F trans fluid....it works fine. Even
the Mobile 1 is cheaper..and just as good. I always ran the gearsaver....went
to Type F....feels better...worth a try....wont hurt your wallet..for sure...
JOKER....(Steve)
'98KX250
'88KX250
Beelerrj
job of lubing the crank journal. I know this first hand!
Beelerrj
Bob
Bruce Eckler
more expensive stuff just because......??
Bruce
Leav Home wrote in message <19990219190015...@ng106.aol.com>...
Bruce Eckler
ends, but the truth is that this stuff has been around since YZs were
yellow. I know, I have used it since then, for no other reason than because
its been around for so long. I have NEVER(in 15+years) had a oil related
problem. Maybe I am just lucky. Bel Ray hasn't been around this long if its
not a effective lubricant. Don't be ridiculous!
Bruce
C5FltEngnr wrote in message
<19990218160559...@ng-fi1.aol.com>...
>Mark
> I'm not real fond of MC-1. That said, I don't think that had anything to
do
>with the engine failure. I would think that it was due to any of the
following:
>Lean mixture, excessive tolorences, or excessive RPM's. If anything, a big
>bore, low RPM enginge should be easier on an oil then a screaming 80-125cc
>motor. Even though i don't care for Belray i have to think this would have
>happened with any oil. I think you've been sent on a wild "duck" chase
>Mark
>>Subject: CR500's + Belray MC1 = Rod thru' the case Yeeeiihhh!!!!!
>>From: "Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com>
>>Date: 02/18/1999 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
>>Message-id: <7ahod9$e...@pike.ntnet.nt.ca>
>>
>>Open classers - pay attention! I just had a frightening chat with a
friend
>>of mine, who was informed by a shop that they have seen MC1 oil mixtures
eat
>>open class Hondas while on dyno runs. I run mine on MC1 and I have been
>>playing with the jetting and the top end is fine, (I pulled it down) but I
>>always thought it was clanging more than it should. I now have to wonder
>>whether I have just been lucky, or someone has sent us on a wild 'duck'
>>chase.
>>
>>Years ago Belray made an MC3 oil for the open classers, and as I
understood,
>>it was formulated for higher combustion pressures but lower rev ranges (as
>>compared MC1 for the tiddlers). They seemed to have discontinued the
line.
>>
>>Please, please, please, I would really like to know if I am at risk of
>>chunking my 500 running MC1 at the recommended ratios (32-40:1). Has
>>anybody else come across this issue???
>>
>>Mark
>
JForc500
88 kx500 right til today. Same on my 97 cr500. top ends look fine. If your
not a AAA rider , save your money.
Jack Forcier
97 CR500
88 KX500
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
seldom the real culprit. In this day and age of lawsuits every time a
plastic spork breaks, no major company is going to sell an oil for $5500
bikes that grenades the engines. Rather than unfairly trashing the reputation
of a company based on speculation, I recommend calling the company and asking
them about the problem. You might even find them willing to examine the
remains to determine the cause of the failure. If there is a problem with
their oil, I think that they will want to fix it.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
In article <19990218160559...@ng-fi1.aol.com>,
c5flt...@aol.com.nospam (C5FltEngnr) wrote:
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mark Cronk
objective about these things.
I needed to get a jump on what I thought might very well be a potential
problem so I asked the NG what they knew. My need for a quick answer was
driven more by the fact that MC3 was no longer available, and I was truly
unsure if MC1 was an appropriate oil - not a substandard product. I was
under the impression that MC3 was specially formulated for open class (I
later found out from BelRay that I was misinformed and MC3 is petroleum
based and recommended for ratios around 32:1, while MC1 is synthetic and
should be run at 50:1. Is was the recommended ratios that led me to believe
20 years ago that MC3 was formulated for open class) I was wrong, but I know
better now.
The Bel-Ray tech rep and I had a good chat with no hard feelings. In my 20
years around 2 strokes I can't recall a motor chunkin' itself if
air/fuel/oil and maintenance were all properly observed.
It was interesting to note that a few NG replies from older riders remember
certain oils doing nasty things to certain engines - rightly or wrongly. Old
habits/thoughts die hard I suppose.
I have the unfortunate duty to report that my source on this perceived
incompatibility has since turned out to be a dud, and I now regret my shoot
from the hip approach. I'd like to think I didn't smear Bel-Ray too badly -
I have, in my own measely defence, used their products faithfully for over
20 years, without incident.
I currently run MC1 at 50:1 not 32:1 as I did previously, and I have not,
nor do I expect any problems.
Your comments were well founded. I appreciate your candor.
Mark Cronk
Humbled, once again but smarter for it.
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com
"Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com> wrote:
> Your comments were well founded. I appreciate your candor.
Thanks Mark. Your reply was a lot better than the "keep your ****ing opinions
to yourself" answers that most people send.
I didn't mean to suggest that you did a hatchet job on Belray. You just
expressed a concern, but the snowball was growing as it rolled downhill.
Regards,
Fred Maxwell
'89 CR500
Chris Pratz
oil problems. He assumed as per the previous owners statement that it ran on 32:1
mix like most other 250s etc. The owners manual clearly states a 20:1 mix, and I
can't help but wonder if other people have made the same mistake. Needless to say
the top end got lunched.
Chris
fred_m...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
>
> I
> > >Subject: CR500's + Belray MC1 = Rod thru' the case Yeeeiihhh!!!!!
> > >From: "Mark Cronk" <mcr...@yk.com>
> > >Date: 02/18/1999 12:44 PM Central Standard Time
> > >Message-id: <7ahod9$e...@pike.ntnet.nt.ca>
> > >
> > >Open classers - pay attention! I just had a frightening chat with a friend
> > >of mine, who was informed by a shop that they have seen MC1 oil mixtures eat
> > >open class Hondas while on dyno runs. I run mine on MC1 and I have been
> > >playing with the jetting and the top end is fine, (I pulled it down) but I
> > >always thought it was clanging more than it should. I now have to wonder
> > >whether I have just been lucky, or someone has sent us on a wild 'duck'
> > >chase.
> > >
>
>
JOKERKX250
>under the impression that MC3 was specially formulated for open class (I
>later found out from BelRay that I was misinformed and MC3 is petroleum
>based and recommended for ratios around 32:1, while MC1 is synthetic and
>should be run at 50:1. Is was the recommended ratios that led me to believe
>20 years ago that MC3 was formulated for open class) I was wrong, but I know
>better now.
stuff...
JOKER....(Steve)
'98KX250
'88KX250
dirt...@arkansas.net
jetting for the bikes application or just incorrect jetting.
Long term wear is another issue. In the above statement, I'm talking about
piston melt-downs, rod seizures, etc.
I was unhappy with Golden spectro (Gas Gas recommended oil at 50-1) for two
reasons.
1.engine wear experience with big bore Yamahas in the past.(new bore every 6
months max, new piston every 3 months, new rings every month)
2.excessive spooge producing characteristics.
I have had good experiences with DuraLube (now called Champion) Water Pumper
at 40-1. I started using it in my Huskys in the '80s and still use it today
in my EC 250 (at 40/1). I just tore down the top end of my EC for the first
time in preparation for my first race of the year. This is the same bike I
brought to the TX Spodefest last October. The piston had 1/32" of carbon
build-up on the head and 1/64" build-up on the piston. Other than a little
black glaze in two spots below the rings (this washed off with carb cleaner
spray), the piston was in new condition. The rings had a .006" end gap, and
the cylinder walls looked new. This is consistant with the wear
characteristics I experienced with the '87 Husky 430. I am going to try some
Yamaha-Lube R and see how it does. I have been impressed with the reports
that I have heard from friends, both in person, and here on RMD. Does anyone
have any jetting suggestions for the change-over (from Champion WP at 40/1 to
Yamalube at 32/1)? I have my bike jetted very crisp at the bottom and
mid-range, and a little rich on top (to protect my engine if I get crazy and
run wide open down a right of way or fire road. I don't mind the exhaust
packing catching fire, as long as the engine stays healthy.).
Jim Cook - Wudsracer
Gas Gas EC 250
Team Cheesy Poof
http://www.smackovermotorsports.com
C5FltEngnr
I am glad to see that someone besides myself ; thinks Champion is an
excellent oil. My friends and i have used it with the same kind of results you
speak of. I am currently using the Y2-R that i recieved with my new YZ, but i
will see how Champion works in the YZ once this case of Yamalube is gone. I
also like the price per gallon of champion! Inexpensive, but good stuff
Maynard!
As for the jetting i would just see how it runs, if your lean on the pilot
you may be able to get away with just an airscrew adjustment. I wouldn't think
it would need but one bigger on the pilot if anything. Sounds like you would be
OK on the main jet.
Thanks for the fanny pack info.
See you at Jimmy Jack
.>Most so called "oil related" engine failures are the result of incorrect
Mark
'99 YZ 250
#567 OCCRA
Dan Williams
because it seemed to burn cleaner then MC1. The newer trials bike (13.5:1) runs
just fine on MC1 though I've noticed over the years that MC1 tends to pool in the
crankcase more then some other oils and might carbon the pipe a little more.
Dan