Changing from 80wt Gear Oil to ATF or 15w50
bretb...@hotmail.com
The shifting on my 1983 YZ490 is rather notchy. I have searched this
group for hours and it seems as though the consensus is to use either
Type F ATF or Mobil 1 15w50. I am willing to try both to see which one
offers the smoothest shifting. My question concerns the switch to ATF.
How thoroughly do I need to flush the tranny out when I make the
switch to ATF? I was thinking about warming the engine, draining the
existing gear oil, filling with ATF, warm it up completely, drain, then
fill again. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Bret
HardWorkingDog
I just switched from Maxima 80wt (that I'd been using for some time)
and put in Shell Rotella T synthetic (can't remember the weight
rating) based on Jim Cook's recommendation. Put it in both yz's, have
about 75 miles on them now. I'm going to change the oil this weekend,
curious how it looks/feels. The bikes both seem quite happy with it so
far.
-Charles
Chris Buckley
with ATF, Torco makes 85w MTF and Maxima makes MTL-XL in
75w. I've used both of these for years with no problems.
Chris Buckley
> I would try a synthetic/blend transmission oil before going with ATF,
> Torco makes 85w MTF and Maxima makes MTL-XL in 75w. I've used both of
> these for years with no problems.
In my 4-stroke bikes I run Mobil1 15w 50. Since they do not
use a seprate transmission oil, the Mobil1 provides great
shifting and clutch action.
Wudsracer
That was Shell Rotella 5w40 synthetic. I really like the stuff.
Brett,
You won't need to purge the transmission oil. Just change it like
you would normally do. It won'[t clabber or break down or anything if
a little of the old gets mixed with the new.
Jim
PlowBoy
that tiny thread a while back, that I really wish I hadnt even mentioned it
in the group, anyrate the ATF recomendation, was in a TRIALS bike A GASGAS
trials bike to be specific.
IIRC It was pretty much felt that probably not a good idea on anything else,
especially a YZ or any other purpose motorcycle. Everyone agrees though,
which ever oil you use, go synthetic, it sticks and lubes better. As you
can see in this thread the rest have suggested Shell Rotella, which BTW we
use in our Agricultural Tractor engines (like 906 CU inch catapillar 300+ hp
diesels, 20 year old engines, with great success.
bretb...@hotmail.com enlightened us with:
MX Tuner
blathered:
>Bret,
>
>that tiny thread a while back, that I really wish I hadnt even mentioned it
>in the group, anyrate the ATF recomendation, was in a TRIALS bike A GASGAS
>trials bike to be specific.
>
>IIRC It was pretty much felt that probably not a good idea on anything else,
>especially a YZ or any other purpose motorcycle. Everyone agrees though,
>which ever oil you use, go synthetic, it sticks and lubes better. As you
>can see in this thread the rest have suggested Shell Rotella, which BTW we
>use in our Agricultural Tractor engines (like 906 CU inch catapillar 300+ hp
>diesels, 20 year old engines, with great success.
Not really. I've used Type F for years in two strokes with excellent
results. It'll last over 30,000 miles in moms Buick towing the
boat.It'll damn sure hold up in a two stroke bottom end. Plus it works
very nicely.
MX Tuner
'03 CRF480R
Sting32
thought "no" or idunno or whatever, yet I said yah... you know.
MX Tuner
>Thanks MX, I just didnt want him to do it when it seemed everyone else
>thought "no" or idunno or whatever, yet I said yah... you know.
Its funny going in to a bike shop and mention using ATF. Watch the
parts guys freak out. They're the best at buying into the gear lube
mentality. They've had it pounded into them by thier distributors.
MX Tuner
'03 CRF480R
Chris Buckley
> Its funny going in to a bike shop and mention using ATF. Watch the
> parts guys freak out. They're the best at buying into the gear lube
> mentality. They've had it pounded into them by thier distributors.
>
> MX Tuner
> '03 CRF480R
A semi neighbor of yours and old friend of mine by the name
of Barry Higgins used to swear by running ATF in his
2-stroke gear boxes., I knew it worked well for him but I
allways assumed he ran it because it was cheap.
Chris
dsc
Wudsracer wrote:
> Charles,
> That was Shell Rotella 5w40 synthetic. I really like the stuff.
I didn't know Rotella came in synthetic?
I used Rotella for several years in my Chevy diesel and in my bike's
gear box... I never noticed the word synthetic on it anywhere? That's
the main reason I stopped using it.
Wudsracer
At Wal Marts, it is in dark blue one gallon plastic jugs. $13+.
dsc
Okay... what I used was in white... I'll check into that.
HardWorkingDog
I think the key identifier is the "T"; the full name is Rotella T
Synthetic. As far as I can tell, the 5w40 is the only grade available
(makes it easier to decide, at least).
-Charles
IdaSpode
wrote:
Can't say about the synthetics, but in regular oil, the blue jugs are
Chevron Delo 400, Rotella T is in a white jug.
Both are 15W-40, diesel rated oils.
I happened to get a deal on a few gallons of Delo, so I've been using
it in my Chevy, will probably switch to Rotella when the Delo is gone.
I started using Rotella in my 200 when Al at Rekluse recommended it.
I've noticed a marked reduction in the "mud" stuck to my magnetic
drain bolt since I've been using it.
In a 2S, unless you are really abusing the clutch, I see no need for
more expensive synthetic oils. I don't leave it in there long enough
to "break down" and the temps in the tranny/clutch are nowhere near
those seen in a 4S.
I tried ATF once, made for notchy shifting, took it out after one
ride, YMMV with another brand of bike.
>-Charles
David - 05 KTM 200EXC
djones<at>LSidaho.com
http://www.spodefest.net/rmd
HardWorkingDog
>
>In a 2S, unless you are really abusing the clutch, I see no need for
>more expensive synthetic oils. I don't leave it in there long enough
>to "break down" and the temps in the tranny/clutch are nowhere near
>those seen in a 4S.
At $3.25/qt., why not use the best oil possible? (Not saying Rotella
is better than any other synthetic, but that synthetic is better than
just about any other non-synthetic.)
It has worked great so far, running in a YZ125 through 2+ hare
scramble races, and a 30 mile trail ride by a hard-riding kid who
likes to abuse clutches.
I wasn't quite right about the "T" part. But the only synthetic
Rotella is 5w40, in a blue jug.
http://www.rotella.com/products/
-Charles
JayC
>it in my Chevy, will probably switch to Rotella when the Delo is gone.
You may want to stick with the Delo, especially if you save dough doing
it - if memory serves, it is a pretty good oil. Although it seems to
have a good rep, Rotella T is actually a fairly crappy oil - it's a
bottom of the barrel brand, on par with the WalMart Tech stuff. That
being said, I don't think there really is too much of a difference
between oils anyway, and Rotella T is what I put in my diesel tractor
when I changed it the last time.
Jay
Mike W.
In my street bike, which sees severe duty and where clutch feel matters a
ton in my particular application, I've settled on the Mobil 1 solution.
Best clutch feel from maybe a dozen different mostly-MC oils tried.
Fantastic shifting. Pricey. Might seep on you after you've been using it a
while and this can be significant seepage too. But it's my choice. I hear
excellent things about ATF in 2 strokes. Good luck.
M
--
Mike W.
96 XR400
70 CT70
71 KG 100 (Hodaka-powered)
99 KZ1000P
dsc
> In a 2S, unless you are really abusing the clutch, I see no need for
> more expensive synthetic oils.
Well, they are thinner and flow better when they are really cold. Not
sure how important that is. But I agree doesn't need to be high $
stuff... I often buy the cheapest synthetic at the parts store for
tranny oil. It's a couple bucks per quart.
Rotella synthetic would be for my truck...
IdaSpode
>
>> In a 2S, unless you are really abusing the clutch, I see no need for
>> more expensive synthetic oils.
>
>
>Well, they are thinner and flow better when they are really cold. Not
>sure how important that is.
Probably much more important in a pressurized lubrication system (4S)
than in a 2S tranny/clutch. The low viscosity might make a bike a bit
easier to turnover/start when extremely cold, still seems more
critical in a 4S than a 2S.
MX Tuner
<cnbu...@less.spam.earthlink.net> blathered:
>A semi neighbor of yours and old friend of mine by the name
>of Barry Higgins used to swear by running ATF in his
>2-stroke gear boxes., I knew it worked well for him but I
>allways assumed he ran it because it was cheap.
>Chris
KTM recommended it for years a couple decades ago. In the late '70's,
I worked at a local Kawasaki shop that put ATF in all the two stroke
gearboxes with never a problem.
MX Tuner
'03 CRF480R
bretb...@hotmail.com
this weekend. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense. A
two-stroke motorcycle transmission has more in common with an automatic
automobile transmission than a standard automobile transmission. The
Torqueflite 727 behind the 440 in my '67 Coronet seems to be just fine
with ATF. We launch the car off the starting line at 4000 RPM and
never have a problem. I will let you know how it worked out after the
races this weekend.
//Bret
Dean H.
<bretbonham sez:
> A
> two-stroke motorcycle transmission has more in common with an automatic
> automobile transmission than a standard automobile transmission.
If this is true I'd love to understand better. I'm a little dopey about
automatics though.
-d
dsc
Dean H. wrote:
> <bretbonham sez:
>
> > A
> > two-stroke motorcycle transmission has more in common with an automatic
> > automobile transmission than a standard automobile transmission.
Doesn't actually have about the same amount in common with each?
It has wet (oil batch) clutch mechanisms like an automatic and it has
straight gears like a standard transmission.
What if a lightweight dirt bike tranny was invented that used a
planetary gear set (but not necessarily a torque converter and pump)?
Would that be good... bad... or just ugly?
Murray
>Thanks for the information everybody. I have decided to go with ATF
>this weekend. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense. A
>two-stroke motorcycle transmission has more in common with an automatic
>automobile transmission than a standard automobile transmission.
Huh?
AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
Good luck with the ATF. I have had the best luck with simple 10w40
dyno oil.
Murray
spodely
wrote:
Unless it's an old TT600 that has a leaky oil tank lid that leaks oil
onto the chain (automatic chain oiler) Several hard rides and there's
no need to change oil, it's just time to add more. She's a cannibal.
Dinosaur oil for the dinosaur.
John
bretb...@hotmail.com
Now that you mention it, I would have to agree that a motorcycle
transmission is half and half.
//Bret
bretb...@hotmail.com
>AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
>I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
You are correct. I was focusing too much of my comparison on the wet
clutch. I think a better analogy would be that a motorcycle
transmission is half and half (standard/auto).
//Bret
Chris Buckley
> Huh?
> AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
> I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
FYI Murrman, Back in the mid 70s to mid 80s Husqvarna made
some bikes with auto transmissions, there were no torque
converters, pumps, or valves. Come to think of it they
didn't use ATF either, some special hydraulic oil.
Pekka Hänninen
> Huh?
> AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
> I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
Automatic transmissions have gears and wet clutches just like your
bike.
Pekka Hänninen,oh7xc
ktm400sx/ktm200sx
Ken Shackleton
Murray wrote:
> On 13 Feb 2006 23:23:55 -0800, bretb...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> >Thanks for the information everybody. I have decided to go with ATF
> >this weekend. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense. A
> >two-stroke motorcycle transmission has more in common with an automatic
> >automobile transmission than a standard automobile transmission.
>
> Huh?
> AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
> I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
AT's also have wet-clutches and gears....those are the parts we have in
common.
ATF type F in the 2-stroke bike trans is the way to go for me....shifts
nice...and cheap enough to change often without undue financial stress.
MX Tuner
blathered:
A motorcycle gearbox has gears, bearings and a wet clutch.
An automotive automatic transmission has gears, bearings and wet
clutches (with a few other moving parts to boot).
MX Tuner
'03 CRF480R
dsc
Pekka Hänninen wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 06:28:03 -0700, Murray <mur...@work.com> wrote:
>
> > Huh?
> > AT's run off torque converters, pumps and valves, no?
> > I don't recall any of these in my bikes gear box.
>
> Automatic transmissions have gears and wet clutches just like your
> bike.
Well technically, the gears are very different...
Murray
I remember those. Never got to ride one, you?
How well did they work?
Wudsracer
The Gas Gas clutch has very close tolerances. It works best with a
light viscosity oil that also has a high shear strength.
Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com
Once you're Over the Hill, You just pick up Speed!
Wudsracer
Very well, until they went to a 3 speed. That diminished the
reliability.
Jim
spodely
"Murray" <mur...@work.com> wrote in message
news:rkb5v1p0caan6c7ik...@4ax.com...
>>
>>FYI Murrman, Back in the mid 70s to mid 80s Husqvarna made
>>some bikes with auto transmissions, there were no torque
>>converters, pumps, or valves. Come to think of it they
>>didn't use ATF either, some special hydraulic oil.
>
> I remember those. Never got to ride one, you?
>
> How well did they work?
I have a riding buddy that has one. It's very reliable. Think 2-stroke no
engine braking...squared.
I don't know what he uses in it, though.
John
Chris Buckley
>
> I remember those. Never got to ride one, you?
>
> How well did they work?
>
I never rode one either, but I have a friend that qualified
for and won an ISDE gold medal on one. Mat Cullins is his
name, he told me that he liked riding it, you were either
throwing up roost or off the gas.
Chris
Ken Shackleton
Ours are straight cut...the AT uses helical cut gears in a planetary
arrangement. They are still cogs pushing against one another....so how
are they different in any meaningful way?
bretb...@hotmail.com
enough people showed up because it was, get this, raining. Damn
sissys! Next weekend is the Adelanto Grand Prix so I will have to wait
until next weekend to see how the new lube worked.