Had to do it!!! 01 CR500 vs 01 XR650R
Dalon
and the 01 CR 500. I have owned an 84 CR 500 for a couple of years and
thought the bike was just the cats meow i.e. Power, Power and oh did I
mention Power. So my 84 is getting tired and time to replace it. I
find out Honda as well as others have discontinued or will discontinue
the 2-stroke open class bikes from there line. So I think about the XR
650R with mods could come close to the wrist twist power and thunder
of my old CR 500. Not so little grass hopper. The guys who ride the XR
650R love their bikes but it's no CR 500. Today my dealer after weeks
of trying to place me on the YZ or CR 250 finally says " I found an 01
CR 500 at $4199.00 are you interested!!!" Well duh I only been
reliving all my rides in the last 3 years boring this idiot to death.
I now the CR 500 is old technology and weights a ton, but I don't
care. I want the neck busting, arm socket tearing power I've become
used to. I like the KTM, but due to the price I stayed away. I liked
the YZ 426f but the 4 stroke isn't something I want to hear. O.K. My
point is....Why don't sales people listen, then respond. I've always
been told, find a need and fill it. Please all you sales people listen
to my last statement. I love sales and have done it for years, just
another reason I pass this along. Lets keep the sales industry top
shelf.
Jeff Bailey
They really aren't in the same catagory what-so-ever. The 650 is a great
bike, and has more power than anything out there once it's uncorked, but
it's not designed to compete with the CR line, YZ426's etc. I'm sure you
know this. Get an XR650 out in the desert or on an all day ride, and man
they are awesome though. Get into the tight trails, and slippery hillclimbs
through the trees and over wet roots, and you'll more than likely not be
smiling much ( unless your a Scott Summers clone. The man still amazes me).
What kind of riding do you do? You can't go wrong with a CR500R, great
machine, but if your not taking advantage of what it is capable of doing,
then why buy one? Just out of curiosity, why didn't you like the 426? I
own one, and personally have no desire to ever ride a 2 stroke again, just
because of the way a 4 stroke makes power, handles, and allowes me to get
away with so much on the track and trail. I feel more in control, and much
much less fatigued compared to what I did on a 2 stroke. But that's my
findings.
Have you had a chance to ride the 450F? It's pretty fast, light, easy to
start, and just a kick to ride ( Suspension was way too soft for me, but so
is a stock CR500R and that can be changed)
Jeff Bailey
www.motoview.com
'01 426F
"Dalon" <dwe...@pacificoffice.com> wrote in message
news:b0e95d52.02032...@posting.google.com...
cr500 cr500
The new CR500's weigh within 20 lbs of a CR250 I would defiantly go with the
cr500 if you do open class type of riding. If you do dunes then slap that
paddle on and hold on their a blast.
Max
"Dalon" <dwe...@pacificoffice.com> wrote in message
news:b0e95d52.02032...@posting.google.com...
john
are you still looking?" <pause to see how fast you respond>
.5 seconds <add $1000 to price> 1-1.5 seconds <500>
a drawl then a "well maybe" <let the negotiations begin>
but had you interrupted him mid sentence <$$$$$>
shish armatures.
john
still in the crate<prep charge> it's in Canada <import fee's ....>
"Dalon"
Dudley Cornman
"Jeff Bailey" <je...@motoview.com> wrote in message
news:u9l19gf...@corp.supernews.com...
> Comparing a CR500R and an XR650R is like comparing a Ski Boat to a Jet
Ski.
> They really aren't in the same catagory what-so-ever. The 650 is a great
> bike, and has more power than anything out there once it's uncorked, but
> it's not designed to compete with the CR line, YZ426's etc. I'm sure you
> know this. Get an XR650 out in the desert or on an all day ride, and man
> they are awesome though. Get into the tight trails, and slippery
hillclimbs
> through the trees and over wet roots, and you'll more than likely not be
> smiling much ( unless your a Scott Summers clone. The man still amazes
me).
But ver few people are really going to love a CR500 in the tight/slippery
stuff either... :)
>
> What kind of riding do you do? You can't go wrong with a CR500R, great
> machine, but if your not taking advantage of what it is capable of doing,
> then why buy one? Just out of curiosity, why didn't you like the 426? I
> own one, and personally have no desire to ever ride a 2 stroke again, just
> because of the way a 4 stroke makes power, handles, and allowes me to get
> away with so much on the track and trail. I feel more in control, and
much
> much less fatigued compared to what I did on a 2 stroke. But that's my
> findings.
They are too tall for me, too heavy and too hard to kick (partially because
they are too tall for me). They make almost too much power when it's slick
and nasty. :)
>
> Have you had a chance to ride the 450F? It's pretty fast, light, easy to
> start,
Everyone keeps saying they are easy to start. But I watched a couple
brothers (twins actually) each kick theirh 450 at least 100 times before
they fired up for the first time that day.
These twins are good sized fellas in their early/mid twenties and have been
riding since they were ankle high to a baby grashopper. They have a large
family (about 4 generations currently riding) and they get about 2 new bikes
each per year. They have had or ridden just about every bike there is. Yet
they had great difficulty starting the 450s at times. MAN ARE THEY LOUD.
dsc
Jay C
>
> Everyone keeps saying they are easy to start. But I watched a couple
> brothers (twins actually) each kick theirh 450 at least 100 times before
> they fired up for the first time that day.
They were probably kicking them like they are used to kicking their old
2-strokes. That doesn't work with a 4-s. If you jump onto just about any
4-s and start stabbing at the kicker, you'll be there all day. Push through
to TDC then give a solid kick though, and the thing will usually fire right
up.
Jay
Dalon
> They really aren't in the same catagory what-so-ever. The 650 is a great
> bike, and has more power than anything out there once it's uncorked, but
> it's not designed to compete with the CR line, YZ426's etc. I'm sure you
> know this. Get an XR650 out in the desert or on an all day ride, and man
> they are awesome though. Get into the tight trails, and slippery hillclimbs
> through the trees and over wet roots, and you'll more than likely not be
> smiling much ( unless your a Scott Summers clone. The man still amazes me).
>
> What kind of riding do you do? You can't go wrong with a CR500R, great
> machine, but if your not taking advantage of what it is capable of doing,
> then why buy one? Just out of curiosity, why didn't you like the 426? I
> own one, and personally have no desire to ever ride a 2 stroke again, just
> because of the way a 4 stroke makes power, handles, and allowes me to get
> away with so much on the track and trail. I feel more in control, and much
> much less fatigued compared to what I did on a 2 stroke. But that's my
> findings.
>
> Have you had a chance to ride the 450F? It's pretty fast, light, easy to
> start, and just a kick to ride ( Suspension was way too soft for me, but so
> is a stock CR500R and that can be changed)
>
> Jeff Bailey
> www.motoview.com
> '01 426F
>
Dalon Wrote,
Jeff,
I do understand the difference in bikes and that is why the BRP was a
no-go. I will say in regards to the Yamaha that it's a great bike and
Yamaha thinks so to, maybe the reason for the cost. I like the Yamaha,
good power, snappy response and thunderous sounds. These are all
attributes I love in a bike. However, I thought the CR 500 would fit
my style of riding better. I like lighter bikes just not at the cost
of reliability. The CR 500 gets it's power down low to mid, quik shift
power. I dont ride the pipe, no need to. The Yamaha is a high rev,
maintainence intensive bike from what my friends tell me. Anyway,
what do I know I bought a CR 500?
Dalon
84 CR 500
01 CR 500
vlj
<snip>
> Everyone keeps saying they are easy to start. But I watched a couple
> brothers (twins actually) each kick theirh 450 at least 100 times before
> they fired up for the first time that day.
<snip>
I find 'em easy to start cold or hot ... but I "know" how to start a cold
XR400 in a couple 'o kicks too. Its a 4-stroke thing.
Cheers,
VLJ
--
If it has tits or tires, its trouble ...
Redden Crisp
Dudley Cornman
"vlj" <v...@vlj.com> wrote in message news:lxIm8.89039$Yv2.30145@rwcrnsc54...
> Dudley Cornman <Dudley....@eku.edu> sez:
>
> <snip>
> > Everyone keeps saying they are easy to start. But I watched a couple
> > brothers (twins actually) each kick theirh 450 at least 100 times before
> > they fired up for the first time that day.
> <snip>
>
> I find 'em easy to start cold or hot ... but I "know" how to start a cold
> XR400 in a couple 'o kicks too. Its a 4-stroke thing.
I don't think that was it. Maybe a jetting issue?
dsc
Dudley Cornman
"Jay C" <jwc.N...@sysmatrix.net> wrote in message
news:3c9b4f1f$1...@news.vic.com...
No, they were doing the drill... I suspect lean jetting + cold engine was
the problem.
Not sure though. They have had a good share of 4??YZFs in that family. In
fact their father (or is it uncle) prefers the 426 to the Honda or KTMs...
dsc
Mark Simpkins
the same sentence???
On the Honda website: 01 CR500 is 222.7 pounds, the '02 CR450f is 225 and
the XR650 is 277.
....and what is this old technology crap???? People, get over the CR frames
and take a look at a KX\CR500 frame...and then take a look at a new KTM MXC
frame.
The YZ490 and RM500 were assuredy old technology when they gave up.
These people who say they are old technology...where are these studs? and
why weren't they riding them when they were 'current' technology??? Actually
in my not-so-humble-opinion the CR and KX still are very current technology.
My guess is they are in Europe where I believe they still race open class MX
professionally.
The forks on these monsters are usually 1mm difference in size and usually
just as adjustable. The suspensions on these machines have kept up...if not
lead at some points.
Do you really want more power than these things offer stock? I don't but I
can see where a DEZ rider might, and that is probably why there have been no
major revisions; the majority of the riders don't need it.
The Brakes are the same as the 250's and 125's. Some people may think that
this borrowed technology from the smaller bikes and this is a
compromise...but it isn't. You still only have about the same sized tires
meeting the ground; which BTW is dirt and not asphalt.
I bleed green, there are only a couple of things I question about the CR.
The carb could have been updated and they lack a power valve. The CR also
had a $700 higher price tag than the KX???? The carb is no biggie, if you
really want to you can do something about it. From hearsay, the lack of a
powervalve on the CR500 made the transition from mid to upper more
explosive, so I can kind of understand why Honda wouldn't put on the 1.5mm
larger PWK carb alluded to above. I can't control my KX in the woods a fair
amount of time (this adds to the beauty of the thing in that it ads more
excitement) and if my KX has a smooth tranisition of power because of
KIPS....I don't want anything to do with violent. Don't forget though,
powervalves are power that come with maintenance.
If Kawasaki gave up on the KX500 first...I'ld have bought a CR500 in a
second. I don't hate red...I just like green much more.
The move to larger 4-strokes....with a few notable exceptions....is a
marketing miracle. The companies can let their open class 2-strokes
die-away and give the public less powerful, more friendly machines. A
person can now go buy a machine that is between 400-500cc's and say they
have a Flapjack 444 and the aura that goes with having a bike 'in the open
class' and still race and lose in the 250cc class due to lack of power.
The dummying up of the kindler\gentler American.
Think about it
-->Mark S
02 KX500
"cr500 cr500" <cr500...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qdxm8.97623$uA5....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Stan Blazejewski
>Dudley Cornman <Dudley....@eku.edu> sez:
>
><snip>
>> Everyone keeps saying they are easy to start. But I watched a couple
>> brothers (twins actually) each kick theirh 450 at least 100 times before
>> they fired up for the first time that day.
><snip>
>
>I find 'em easy to start cold or hot ... but I "know" how to start a cold
>XR400 in a couple 'o kicks too. Its a 4-stroke thing.
>
Yep, starting a 4s is a technique thing. I start my Yamy XT600 in 1
or 2 kicks & a budy does the same on his Honda XR600 but neither of us
can start the others' except by push starting.
--
'84 Yamy XT600, Still goin' strong!
stan...@netspace.net.au
www.netspace.net.au/~stanblaz/
www.cobracat.com (home of the Australian Cobra Catamaran)
bmusg
me to hear that people are considering both for purchase. I also
wonder how much experience folks have with either bike when the CR is
described as "heavy" and the XR is described as "the most powerful
dirt bike". Apparently, I've never been around a properly "uncorked"
XR because despite all the noise, I've never had one go around me
while I was still on my wheels.
As far as the 400-450cc 4S mxer's, the guys I mostly see riding these
are looking for an "easier" ride than a 250 2S. They can certainly
beat a 500 in all the areas a 250 2S but they're really no match in
hills, sand or desert type racing. The only 4S that has tempted me is
the 520 Katoom. Unfortunately, they are still about 50cc and $1000
off of the mark.
Brad
2000 K5
"Mark Simpkins" <simp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<v40n8.7940$8%1.41...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>...
Anssi Lehtinen
news:b150c20c.02032...@posting.google.com:
> The only 4S that has tempted me is
> the 520 Katoom. Unfortunately, they are still about 50cc and $1000
> off of the mark.
But next year, they will probably be 540 off-the-shelf and the factory kit
will be 570 ;)
The 520 is the best bike I've ever ridden for me. I've had two CR5s and a
YZ250.
--
Anssi
520 SX
Mark Simpkins
...Of course, that is the real trick isn't it?
The KX\CR 500.....Kinda crazy, kinda wild, a whole lot of fun, and you
aren't gonna ask for more.
Jeff Bailey
it's uncorked" is pretty much spot on. ( heck.. it has beat a heavily
modified KX500 in the Baja a few times now in virtually stock form. ) I'm
not swearing it has more power than a modified KX500 etc.. but It's a mighty
powerful bike. And as far as experience I can back it up. I've been riding
for over 20 years, and also worked in a Honda/Kawasaki dealership, and
personally rode the bikes I talk about here. We did quite a few modified
XR650's and they are pretty awesome engines. Would I race on? Only if I was
racing a long desert race. I said powerful, not light and flickable. They
aren't total pigs, but It wouldn't be my first choice for a motocross track,
or tight woods.
"bmusg" <bmusg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:b150c20c.02032...@posting.google.com...
bmusg
> My description of an XR650R as "has more power than anything out there once
> it's uncorked" is pretty much spot on. ( heck.. it has beat a heavily
> modified KX500 in the Baja a few times now in virtually stock form. ) I'm
> not swearing it has more power than a modified KX500 etc.. but It's a mighty
> powerful bike. And as far as experience I can back it up. I've been riding
> for over 20 years, and also worked in a Honda/Kawasaki dealership, and
> personally rode the bikes I talk about here. We did quite a few modified
> XR650's and they are pretty awesome engines. Would I race on? Only if I was
> racing a long desert race. I said powerful, not light and flickable. They
> aren't total pigs, but It wouldn't be my first choice for a motocross track,
> or tight woods.
>
airbox and swapping exhausts, I've yet to see these modification
results in a bike that strikes fear into any CR/KX 5 rider. Now if
we're talking $1500+ of HRC engine kit plus exhaust and head mods,
we're not exactly apples for apples. But, we are now at about the
same hp as a basically stock KX/CR 500.
I don't have any argument with XR's or people who like XR's. If I
were mostly riding terrain that could comfortably be driven by a 4wd
pickup, it would be near the top of my list. I've ridden 2 XR's, one
completely stock and one louder than a YZF. So I don't pretend to
know how the HRC spec race models run. But I do know that Honda
didn't have much fun at Baja until Kawasaki quit going.
Brad
2000 KX5
Redden Crisp
trouble with and cover single track trails at impressive speed.
Dalon
> I've seen the XR easily take terrain that a 4WD rock crawler would have
> trouble with and cover single track trails at impressive speed.
Dalon Wrote,
Yes it may be true that the XR has manners that the CR does not, but
that is why we ride the CR and such. "Impressive speed" I love that
line, but really are we talking about the same thing here? I want to
rip a corner, throw alot of rocks, and flat out fly, yano grin factor
stuff. Not just putt around at your"impressive speed". But what do I
know?
Dalon
84 CR500(then)
01 CR500(now)
Dudley Cornman
news:<ipJo8.1815$BT6.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
> > I've seen the XR easily take terrain that a 4WD rock crawler would have
> > trouble with and cover single track trails at impressive speed.
>
>
>
> Dalon Wrote,
>
> Yes it may be true that the XR has manners that the CR does not, but
> that is why we ride the CR and such. "Impressive speed" I love that
> line, but really are we talking about the same thing here? I want to
> rip a corner, throw alot of rocks, and flat out fly, yano grin factor
> stuff.
That's pretty much how 8(?) time GNCC Champion Scott Summer's rides... even
today in retirement after a couple bad crashes and injuries. He still
travels a notch or two above "Impressive speed". :)
> Not just putt around at your"impressive speed".
Scott rode an XR600 (with stock performing engine) to all of those wins...
:)
Then along comes Shane Watts on his little KTM 200 and kicks everyone's
butt.
It's not so much the bike that determines how impressive your speed is...
it's the rider.
But what do I know? :):):):)
dsc
DirtCrashr
>:)
>Then along comes Shane Watts on his little KTM 200 and kicks everyone's
>butt.
>It's not so much the bike that determines how impressive your speed is...
>it's the rider.
>But what do I know? :):):):)
>
>dsc
It's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know.
If you knew Shane Watts you'd be that much faster already. ;-)
'97 KTM 300 MXC, Diadora gear, Suomy Helmets
D36, BRC, CERA, COHVCO, CORVA.
Dudley Cornman
"DirtCrashr" <dirtc...@aol.comMacaroni> wrote in message
news:20020329125510...@mb-fc.aol.com...
> >Scott rode an XR600 (with stock performing engine) to all of those
wins...
> >:)
> >Then along comes Shane Watts on his little KTM 200 and kicks everyone's
> >butt.
> >It's not so much the bike that determines how impressive your speed is...
> >it's the rider.
> >But what do I know? :):):):)
> >
> >dsc
>
>
> It's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know.
> If you knew Shane Watts you'd be that much faster already. ;-)
So let me re-phrase...
So WHO do I know...
I think the results are the same... :)
dsc
Tami Rowell
It's not WHAT you know it's WHO you know. If you knew Shane Watts
you'd be that much faster already. ;-)
Um, I sorta rode with Rodney Smith up
at Stonyford a few months ago. So how come I'm not faster now,huh?
And riding on the same MX track with
Sheena Patterson only made me slower!
What gives?!? Am I doin' it wrong or what?
It may be time to trade that 70hp WR250F in for a faster 125. Oh,
wait...
it's a 4-stroke...twice as many cycles...
twice the horsepower? Is that how it works? I'm confused now...
Tami-
WR125
CR250F
FZXR750/400
GSZR600
Dudley Cornman
> twice the horsepower? Is that how it works? I'm confused now...
Oh the tasteless one liners that could be born of this statement... :)
dsc
Jeff Bailey
have to agree a little with your thoery, I rode with Tyson and Tallon
Vohland, Steve Lamson, and Dave Coupe when I was a kid, and it never made me
any faster. Sitting down and listening to Dave and Tyson however did. It's
only worthwhile if they are trying to help you.
Have fun in Stonyford. If you ever make it up to Oregon you're going to
have to check out some rides here. I was amazed to discover that I live
within 10 miles of a "mini" Stonyford. Awesome stuff.
As soon as I'm done with the rebuild of my website I'll get some pictures of
riding near the scenic Rogue River
Jeff Bailey
www.motoview.com
'01YZ426F
"Tami Rowell" <TamiR...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:16019-3CA...@storefull-2175.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Tami Rowell
...twice as many cycles...
twice the horsepower? Is that how it works? I'm confused now...
Then Dudley wrote:
Oh the tasteless one liners that could be born of this statement...
:)
dsc
Hey! Bring `em on Dudley! I'm not afraid to laugh at myself :-) Really
though, if I didn't already know my ass from a hole in the ground, I
would be seriously confused
by all the crap that's been flying about in here lately.
Tami-
WR250F
CR125
FZR600/400
GSXR750
(the real list. I'm not confused anymore)
Tami Rowell
Would Dave Coupe be the guy the Coupe Classic is named for up in
Marysville? Yeah, I love Stonyford. I've
ridden in the Tillamook area before and it was pretty neat, other than
some of the seriously whooped-out trails and the mystery trails that
dead-end for no apparent reason. I will be in Southern Oregon in May and
am kinda looking for a cool place (places?) to ride. I will be about 25
miles south of Grant's Pass. Any ideas? We have plates on the WR's so
getting from point A to point B is not a problem should we need to be
street-legal. I'll check out the site and
would appreciate any info you can give me!
I used to watch Tyson and Tallon Vohland ride when they were "local
boys"
and Rodney Smith,too, back when he was a MX'r out at Sandhill Ranch.
The fast guys sure make it look easy.
Tami-
WR250F
CR125
FZR600/400
GSXR750
Dudley Cornman
> Tami wrote:
> ...twice as many cycles...
> twice the horsepower? Is that how it works? I'm confused now...
>
>
> Then Dudley wrote:
> Oh the tasteless one liners that could be born of this statement...
> :)
> dsc
>
> Hey! Bring `em on Dudley!
lines of...
Twice the cycles - means twice the pms, twice the bitching & moaning, twice
the mooooood swings... and of course... 1/2 the sex. :) I'm not for that
many cycles.
dsc
Matt
race was at Sand Hill Ranch and ....
<warning: highly pathetic, back-in-the-day, brush-with-fame prattle>
...included a moto-long back and forth battle with Rodney (I think
it was for 3rd place), I might have even gotten him in the end, can't
remember for sure. Needless to say he got faster and I, well... didn't.
<warning off>
I also remember watching Tallon Vohland motoring around the track
at Fremont Raceway all by himself on his little 50 because there was
no one for him to race against (while his older brother ruled the 80
class). And watching Dave Coupe school the big dogs at Argyll Park
and Marysville on countless occasions.
--
Matt
02 RM-250 (me)
02 TT-R125L (wife)
02 TT-R90 (son)
"Tami Rowell" <TamiR...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21013-3CA...@storefull-2171.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Tami Rowell
Tami Rowell
Matt wrote:
"I also remember watching Tallon Vohland motoring around the track at
Fremont Raceway all by himself on his little 50 because there was no one
for him to race against (while his older brother ruled the 80 class).
Would that be Baylands Raceway?
I never raced moto-cross there but I would do the Night Drags on my
streetbikes.
Man, that was a cool place. I used to go
watch the MX races all the time, wishing I had the guts to get out
there. By the time I decided I was good enough (heh...was I ever good
enough?) it was getting ready to shut down. I still get pissed off every
time I drive by there and see all the car
dealerships sitting out in that beautiful
field. What a waste...Are you still in the
Bay Area? Did you ever race at Altamont?
Ever do the Hangover Marathons out at
Sandhill Ranch on New Year's day? The
last one I did (`01) was a bit bizarre.
Seems the owners of Sandhill (there's a whole `nother story there!) sold
half the
land so the track is alot shorter. It doesn't have that "cross country"
feel anymore.
It'll probably be gone in a few years,too.
Lots of developement out there.
Tami-
Tami Rowell
"Well, I'll stop short of being totally crude, but I was thinking
along the lines of...
Twice the cycles - means twice the pms, twice the bitching & moaning,
twice the mooooood swings... and of course... 1/2 the sex. :) I'm not
for that many cycles."
Hee-hee! I was counting on something along those lines! Very funny! I
guess I
shoulda said "twice the strokes", eh?
That woulda been more fun...ya know,
strokes and all...I'm not for "twice the
cycles" either! I'm a 2-stroker at heart.
By the way, this may be news to you but not all women get PMS. Most of
`em, but not all, thank god. I used to work with a
woman that would burst into tears for
(seemingly) no reason at all. I felt really
sorry for her. I couldn't imagine living my life like that.
Tami-
Matt
Yup, I'd forgotten they renamed it to Baylands. The friday night
motocrosses were wild; often there would be 3 fully packed
classes of 125 Novices. There was nothing like blasting out
of the gate with 25-30 trophy-crazed novies onto a dimly lit
track. I felt so much safer after I moved up to Intermediate.
Sorry to hear Sand Hill isn't what it used to be, it was one
of my favorite tracks. We also used to race at Watsonville,
Argyll Park (Dixon) Knob Hill Ranch (Pescadero), Marysville
(can you still ride/race at both locations?), Hollister, Prairie
City, Sears Point Raceway, Gamboni Ranch (the one next
door to the wacky cult :-), and a bunch of others I can't remember.
I grew up in the Bay Area, but now live in Nevada City, CA.