AIR: German pronunciation of aircraft names
FREEWHIP
This is not a true modeling topic, but it is a point I've wondered about.
How did the Germans pronounce their World War II aircraft names? For
example, we pronounce an ME 109 in English as
Emm Eee One-Oh-Nine (I'm ignoring the Bf versus ME controversy here)
Did the Germans call it:
(1) Messerschmitt Ein Oh Neun? (please ignore my massacre of the
spelling--I don't have a German dictionary around and my knowledge of the
language is based solely on one year of German in high school.)
(2) Emm Ayy Ein Zero Neun? (the Geman pronunciations of the letters M and
E)
(3) Messerschmitt Ein Oh Neun?
Similary, the ME 110 is usually called an Emm Eee One Ten (or sometimes
the One-One-Oh). What do Germans say? Another complication comes with
higher numbers. Did the Germans acknowledge the Stuka (Junkers JU 87) as:
(1) Yoonkers Acht Sieben or
(2) Yut Oooh Acht Sieben or (German pronunciation of J and U)
(3) Yoonkers Sieben und Achtsig? (Eighty seven in German)
And is the FW 190 called a One-Ninety in German, or is it usually
One-Nine-Oh? The question also extends to armour. Was a Panzer Mark IV
called a Panzer fier, or mark fier, or even something else?
Perhaps some of our modeling friends in Germany can help us ignorant
English-speaking types on this one...
Lee K.
SueSkipper
Wharever the pronunciation, zero would have been "Null." Even with a
degree in German I can't answer your question, but I have a feeling that
they didn't name their weapons exactly the way we did. Example: The V
series rockets, said to have stood for vengeance, could not have meant
that at all. Vengeance in German is "Rache." And what about NATO
designations for Soviet (Russian) aircraft, missiles, and armoored
vehicles? You're right, better to let the Germans (from that time period,
not now) enlighten us all. A very interesting question.
George G. Hopp
FREEWHIP (free...@aol.com) writes:
> This is not a true modeling topic, but it is a point I've wondered about.
> How did the Germans pronounce their World War II aircraft names? For
> example, we pronounce an ME 109 in English as
I have heard it called the Emm Eee Eine-hundred-Neun (one hundred nine).
> Similary, the ME 110 is usually called an Emm Eee One Ten (or sometimes
> the One-One-Oh). What do Germans say? Another complication comes with
> higher numbers. Did the Germans acknowledge the Stuka (Junkers JU 87) as:
The same for the Bf 110 -- Messerschmitt one hundred ten. Or, Emm Eee one
hundred ten. Depending on the individual talking about the a/c.
> (1) Yoonkers Acht Sieben or
> (2) Yut Oooh Acht Sieben or (German pronunciation of J and U)
> (3) Yoonkers Sieben und Achtsig? (Eighty seven in German)
I think it is #3.
>
> And is the FW 190 called a One-Ninety in German, or is it usually
> One-Nine-Oh?
Focke Wulf ein-hundred-ninety (whatever that is in German).
> Perhaps some of our modeling friends in Germany can help us ignorant
> English-speaking types on this one...
>
>
> Lee K.
All the best,
George Hopp
Douglas G. Devers
Example: The V series rockets, said to have stood for vengeance, could not
have meant
> that at all. Vengeance in German is "Rache."
Well, maybe it is, but the "V" stood for Vergeltungswaffe, meaning
literally "reprisal weapon" from the root verb "vergelten" meaning to
repay, reward, return, or retaliate.
Just my two cents worth,
Doug
SueSkipper
Thank you. I would publicly like to aknowledge learning that new fact
today. Always wondered about that.
Ulf Messner SMI European Software Centre
In article TAA0...@ladder02.news.aol.com, suesk...@aol.com (SueSkipper) writes:
> Wharever the pronunciation, zero would have been "Null." Even with a
That's right, but not in this context, because it's regarded as part of "hundertneun".
> degree in German I can't answer your question, but I have a feeling that
> they didn't name their weapons exactly the way we did. Example: The V
> series rockets, said to have stood for vengeance, could not have meant
> that at all. Vengeance in German is "Rache." And what about NATO
True, but there's another, less colloquial German word which also means vengeance:
"Vergeltung". A V missile was a "Vergeltungswaffe".
Ulf
Ulf Messner SMI European Software Centre
In article SAA2...@ladder02.news.aol.com, free...@aol.com (FREEWHIP) writes:
> This is not a true modeling topic, but it is a point I've wondered about.
> How did the Germans pronounce their World War II aircraft names? For
> example, we pronounce an ME 109 in English as
>
We call it "Me Hundertneun" (= Me one nundred nine), pronounced
something like "May Hoondertnoin"
|
make this a short "oo" and pronounce "oin"
like "ointment".
> Similary, the ME 110 is usually called an Emm Eee One Ten (or sometimes
> the One-One-Oh). What do Germans say? Another complication comes with
"Me Hundertzehn" (= Me one hundred ten), pronounced like "May Hoondert tsayn"
> higher numbers. Did the Germans acknowledge the Stuka (Junkers JU 87) as:
>
> (1) Yoonkers Acht Sieben or
> (2) Yut Oooh Acht Sieben or (German pronunciation of J and U)
> (3) Yoonkers Sieben und Achtsig? (Eighty seven in German)
(3) is correct. This rule applies to pretty much all German
plus most non-German aircraft - and cars - (B17 = "Be Siebzehn"),
but there are a few exceptions: B-747 = "Boeing sieben vier sieben"
where the English speaking model is followed.
The Ju 88 mentioned in another posting may have been such an exception -
not sure because I've never met a Ju88 pilot. I doubt it though, because
"acht acht" was always associated with that anti aircraft gun.
> And is the FW 190 called a One-Ninety in German, or is it usually
"Focke-Wulf Hundertneunzig" ("Hoondertnointsick", short "oo" again)
> One-Nine-Oh? The question also extends to armour. Was a Panzer Mark IV
> called a Panzer fier, or mark fier, or even something else?
"Panzer vier".
> Perhaps some of our modeling friends in Germany can help us ignorant
> English-speaking types on this one...
You bet. For us, things like "Vickers Viscount" or "fuel gauge" tend
to be a problem...
Ulf
Martin Sczepan
You can use Messerschmitt as well as Me (pronounced 'mayy') and Junkers
as well as Ju (pronounced 'Yooh'). It makes no difference, both versions
were used. Since it were the first two letters of the manufacturers
name, they were normally pronounced this way (together). A exception
from this rule is FW which is pronounced 'eff wayy' - since 'F' and 'W'
are the first letters of Focke and Wulf respectiveley.
For the numbers
109 - einhundertneun or simply hundertneun is correct
87 - siebenundachtzig
110 - einhundertzehn or hundertzehn
Ich hoffe das hilft Euch weiter.
Gruss
Martin
Nicholas Berring
> > And is the FW 190 called a One-Ninety in German, or is it usually
>
> Focke Wulf ein-hundred-ninety (whatever that is in German).
>
Ein hundert neunzehn or hundert-neunzehn depending on convention and how
fast the guy was speaking. (just comments on the language, I have no
idea in hell what the German people called their stuff).
LAX ET
In article <33772A...@rz.hu-berlin.de>, Martin Sczepan
<scz...@rz.hu-berlin.de> writes:
> is FW which is pronounced 'eff wayy' -
I believe that is *eff VAYY*.
Dale G Elhardt
LA...@AOL.COM
You're only young once, but you can always be immature.
Cathy/Andy Irving
--
are you sure that it is not "Oi Vay!"
SueSkipper
Ulf Messner wrote:
"True, but there's another, less colloquial German word which also means
vengeance:
"Vergeltung". A V missile was a "Vergeltungswaffe"."
That's me! The speaker of less colloquial German. (and English as well!)
But as I've said, I do stand corrected. Now if only I could get the der
, die , das thing down....
Bill Schmidt
Martin Sczepan <scz...@rz.hu-berlin.de> wrote:
>You are right. And for the exceptions (German language consists rather
>of exceptions than rules):
>For Me-262 you can use "zwo-sechs-zwo" instead of
>"zeihundertzweiundsechzig".
>Martin
Not quite. Should be "zwei-sechs-zwei"
Bill Schmidt
Long Island Scale Model Society
Casey Armstrong
Martin Sczepan <scz...@rz.hu-berlin.de> wrote in article
<337853...@rz.hu-berlin.de>...
> LAX ET wrote:
> >
> > In article <33772A...@rz.hu-berlin.de>, Martin Sczepan
> > <scz...@rz.hu-berlin.de> writes:
> >
> > > is FW which is pronounced 'eff wayy' -
> >
> > I believe that is *eff VAYY*.
> >
> > Dale G Elhardt
> > LA...@AOL.COM
>
> of exceptions than rules):
>
> For Me-262 you can use "zwo-sechs-zwo" instead of
> "zeihundertzweiundsechzig".
>
> Martin
Well THAT is certainly good news!
Bill Paul
On 12 May 1997 23:24:14 GMT, la...@aol.com (LAX ET) wrote:
>In article <33772A...@rz.hu-berlin.de>, Martin Sczepan
><scz...@rz.hu-berlin.de> writes:
>
>> is FW which is pronounced 'eff wayy' -
>
>I believe that is *eff VAYY*.
>
>
>Dale G Elhardt
>LA...@AOL.COM
>You're only young once, but you can always be immature
*eff VAYY* ? is that German or Klingon? :)
-Bill
Dan Winfield
ATTA BOY CASEY!!!!!
SueSkipper
>For Me-262 you can use "zwo-sechs-zwo" instead of
>"zeihundertzweiundsechzig".
>Martin
>Not quite. Should be "zwei-sechs-zwei"
>Bill Schmidt
>Long Island Scale Model Society
Hmmm... Imagine telling a guy in Berlin how to speak German! In Berlin,
and probably elsewhere, "zwei" IS pronounced as "zwo." Probably to avoid
confusing it with "drei" like using "niner" instead of nine. The
Berliners are a funny lot anyway. Det jeht mir auf den Kecks, ee!
Legal. Illegal. Scheissegal!
Schoen Gruss, Martin.
Andres Valdre
> The Berliners are a funny lot anyway. Det jeht mir auf den Kecks, ee!
Just wondering... Does anybody happen to know how did the Swiss call the
Me 262 that they interned in April 1945 (and which is now in the
Deutsches Museum, Munich) ?
'Zwaiesachsizwaieli' ('a' as in 'cat'; 'ch' sounds like biting a hot
coal) seems a possible one for me ;-) - but does someone know for sure?
Andres
Burkhard Domke
suesk...@aol.com (SueSkipper) wrote:
> Det jeht mir auf den Kecks, ee!
>Schoen[en] Gruss, Martin.
Potzteifi no amol, so a grosskopferter Saupreiss ?!
In Bavaria muaß des hoißen
ZWOA-SECHS-ZWOA
hoaßt mi ?
Servus, Burkhard
;o) jetz hob' I di Musi dick, jetzt kauf' I mia a Moaß a g'scheits !
Marcus Hanke
In article <5lea1u$2fn$1...@news.cs.tu-berlin.de> domk...@mailszrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (Burkhard Domke) writes:
>From: domk...@mailszrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE (Burkhard Domke)
>Subject: Re: AIR: German pronunciation of aircraft names
>Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:22:38 GMT
>suesk...@aol.com (SueSkipper) wrote:
>>Schoen[en] Gruss, Martin.
>ZWOA-SECHS-ZWOA
>hoaßt mi ?
>Servus, Burkhard
FOISCH! Des hoaßt Zwoazwoarasechzg!!!!!
Marcus
Torsten Wendt
Hi,
At *15.05.97* from *Mo 12.05.97*, *08:34*, *337738...@umr.edu*,
*Nicholas Berring* wrote *Re: AIR: German pronunciation of aircraft*
*names*:
NB> > > And is the FW 190 called a One-Ninety in German, or is it usually
NB> > > One-Nine-Oh?
NB> >
NB> > Focke Wulf ein-hundred-ninety (whatever that is in German).
NB> >
NB> Ein hundert neunzehn or hundert-neunzehn depending on convention and how
NB> fast the guy was speaking. (just comments on the language, I have no
NB> idea in hell what the German people called their stuff).
In words "Einhundertneunzig" (190), because "Einhundert-neunzehn" is 119.
I hope it helps.
Greetings from Berlin, Torsten Wendt
IPMS Germany
secretary for email affairs
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*TOBEORNOTTOBE*
## CrossPoint v3.11 R ##
d.f...@virgin.net
Hey everyone, welcome to rec.linguistics.clever-buggers : )!!!
-Mayo,H.H.
>Hmmm... Imagine telling a guy in Berlin how to speak German! In Berlin,
>and probably elsewhere, "zwei" IS pronounced as "zwo." Probably to avoid
Ask yourself, how many people do you know who are clueless about
proper English?
Larry
Larry
Not quite an apt analogy. This assumes that Hochdeutsch is "proper"
German. Dialects abound in Germany, where the language has been spoken
in a large area for roughly two millenia without the homogenizing
influence of TV or radio. In Berlin, "zwo" IS two (it's pronounced
"tsvo"). That's Plattdeutsch for ya. A southern Gentleman in the U.S.
may say "suh" instead of "sir". What we call potato chips are "crisps"
in England. Nicht wahr?
Another Larry
SueSkipper
Certainly not I! However, an unfortunate reality is that many Americans
are ignorant of so many things. My teaching colleagues for example: A
science teacher who does not know that snowflakes have six sides, let
alone know that the the reason for this phenomenon lies in the fact that
two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom always combine to form a 60 degree
angle. Or our school nurse who told me the blood I suspected on the floor
was soda. Just as I said it looks like a mix of blood and snot the donor
ran back by with blood running out of his nose. Or our U.S. History
teacher who (I swear with God as my witness, all of these are true) posted
pictures of Civil War troops carying M-16s on the wall. No wonder the
kids are clueless. The teachers are no better in many instances. I could
go on all day abut the lack of qualified teachers in the education system
but would rather not take up modeling bandwidth here. Instead, find
someone with Tenet. The stories will scare you worse any rolling x-acto
blade story ever would. Oh, then there was was the Mass. National Guard
Bimbette I dated while stationed at Ft. Devens. After telling her about
my deployment to DENMARK, she said, "Oh, that's near New Jersey, isn't
it?"
Burkhard & Birgit Domke
On Sat, 07 Jun 1997 16:07:00 -0700, Larry <du...@idt.net> wrote:
> snip
>
> In Berlin, "zwo" IS two (it's pronounced
>"tsvo"). That's Plattdeutsch for ya.
>
> snip
>
>Another Larry
IMHO, Plattdeutsch is a very different tongue spoken in northwestern
Germany (Schleswig Holstein, Lower Saxony), with many regional
sub-dialects.
"Zwo" is widespread and not unique to Berlin native speakers. For
example, I'm from a small town east of Hamburg, and I usually would
say "zwei", but I'd alwayys say "Messerschmitt Zwo-sechs-zwo".
There is no perfect standard.
Happy Modeling :-)
Burkhard
RAY MEHLBERGER
Yes, and we all know that Brassiere in German is
SCHTOPEMPHRUMPHLOPPIN!:-> Now let's get back to modeling. God, I had
enough language in high school!
Ray
P.S. How bout a crotch grab here Dan?
SueSkipper
Hey, these postings have as much validity in modeling as any others! With
a knowledge of other languages, you open yourself up to a whole new world
of expressions when you drop a piece of photo-etch into your shag
carpeting, or drop your gas station diorama on the floor. See, cardude?
We read YOUR stuff.
R.