Russian Aircraft - What Does BIS mean?

[WFAicklen]

What does this mean when you see it with MIG or other Soviet bloc aircraft?

Bill
Bill Aicklen

[EGMcCann]

IIRC (from the MiG-21 book by Gunston) it's roughly "Again" or "Encore." A
second series - though where they decide that starts, I don't know.

"WFAicklen" <wfai...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030413193611...@mb-ct.aol.com...

[Gaz]

It's kinda "Mark 2"!
Regards,
Gaz(48/m/uk)

Reply address is spam-guarded. Remove Pants to reply.

You know you're a real nurse when you wash your hands *before* going to the bathroom!

[Bill Banaszak]

I think it might have started in Italy. The second series of an
aircraft (and probably other items) being the 'bis', the third series
being 'ter', the fourth 'qater', etc. I guess others picked it up as
I've seen it used on French pre-war craft.

Bill Banaszak, MFE

[jerry 47]

It seems to me that every Russian aircraft I have seen that was listed as
"bis" was a two seater. Am I wrong?
Jerry 47

"Gaz" <g...@thedrummonds.plus.com> wrote in message
news:2a1k9vgv23h3tfr7p...@4ax.com...

[Ken Duffey]

jerry 47 wrote:

> It seems to me that every Russian aircraft I have seen that was listed as
> "bis" was a two seater. Am I wrong?
> Jerry 47

Yes.

The MiG-21bis was a complete redesign of the MiG-21 - in fact it was the LAST
in the series - an 'encore'.

And it was a single-seater.

Which Russian a/c listed as a 'bis' are two-seaters ??

The usual Russian suffix for a two-seat trainer is UM or US or UB - the U
standing for 'Uchebno' (Trainer) - the M & S is for the fighter it was based
on (e.g. MiG-21M, MiG-21PFS (S = blown flaps)) the B standing for 'Boyevoy'
(Combat).

eg The Su-27UB is a combat-capable trainer variant of the Su-27.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ken Duffey - Flanker Freak & Russian Aviation Enthusiast
Flankers Website - http://www.flankers.co.uk/
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[EGMcCann]

"jerry 47" <gaho...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:v9kcoq8...@corp.supernews.com...

> It seems to me that every Russian aircraft I have seen that was listed as
> "bis" was a two seater. Am I wrong?

The MiG-12 BIS wasn't - just (arguably) improved....

[Vodnik]

Yes, you are wrong. "Bis" means "second" or something like that and suggests
major improvement. And MiG-21bis is a single seater. Two seaters are usually
"UB" (e.g. MiG-29UB) and it means "uchiebno-boyevoy", or training-combat.

--
Regards,
Pawel

Visit my webpage: http://www.vodnik.republika.pl.
Model reviews, galleries etc.

"jerry 47" <gaho...@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:v9kcoq8...@corp.supernews.com...

[The Old Timer]

> I think it might have started in Italy. The second series of an
> aircraft (and probably other items) being the 'bis', the third series
> being 'ter', the fourth 'qater', etc. I guess others picked it up as
> I've seen it used on French pre-war craft.

France actually. The first successful European aircraft was Alberto
Santos-Dumont's 14bis. Translation: his fourteenth flying machine, second or
modified design. The other suffexes that you mentioned are French as well. It
all goes back to their being an early leader in the art of aircraft design and
construction.
Did I make that clear?
Regards,

-- John ___
__[xxx]__
(o - )
--------o00o--(_)--o00o-------

The history of things that didn't happen has never been written - Henry
Kissinger

[AMPSOne]

The best known one was more likely the MiG-15bis, which had a lot of redesign
over the original MiG-15. It had new guns (NR-23 and N-37 cannon vice NS-23 and
NS-37), stiffer wings, larger "Korea" air brakes, the VK-1 engine vice RD-45,
and most importantly power boosted controls.

It caused a lot of grief for the Soviet pilots as they weren't used to it and
many of the "old hands" lost control from time to time as the aircraft would
overreact to input!

Cookie Sewell
AMPS

[Riccardo Cibeu]

Bill Banaszak wrote:
> I think it might have started in Italy. The second series of an
> aircraft (and probably other items) being the 'bis', the third series
> being 'ter', the fourth 'qater', etc. I guess others picked it up as
> I've seen it used on French pre-war craft.
>
> Bill Banaszak, MFE

Almost perfect.
It's Latin, actually: bis=twice (second in this context) ter=three times
(or third) quater=four times (or fourth) etc.

Riccardo

[Bill Perez]

Ken,

Does this mean a 27UB can be made combat-ready in a crunch or that it
has a dedicated secondary combat role? I'm not terribly familiar with
Soviet air war doctrine but I don't recall ever seeing them develope a
dedicated two-seater. Did they believe in RIOs (ala F-4, F-14)? I
thought their thinking was to direct fighters from the ground.

TIA,

Bill
"Poyekhali!" (Lets Go!) -Yuri A. Gagarin, shouted as Vostok 1 lifted
off, 12 April 1961

Ken Duffey <kend...@flankerman.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message

[Ken Duffey]

Bill Perez wrote:

> Ken,
>
> Does this mean a 27UB can be made combat-ready in a crunch or that it
> has a dedicated secondary combat role? I'm not terribly familiar with
> Soviet air war doctrine but I don't recall ever seeing them develope a
> dedicated two-seater. Did they believe in RIOs (ala F-4, F-14)? I
> thought their thinking was to direct fighters from the ground.
>
> TIA,
>
> Bill
> "Poyekhali!" (Lets Go!) -Yuri A. Gagarin, shouted as Vostok 1 lifted
> off, 12 April 1961

I suppose its a matter of definition - the Su-27UB can carry the same air-to-air
weapons as the single-seater and has the same systems - radar, ESM etc. In that
respect it is 'combat capable' - but it is used to train pilots.

Sukhoi then developed a dedicated two-seater based on the Su-27UB - the Su-30.
This was a true two-seat fighter in the mould of the F-4/F-14 etc.

From the Su-30 they have gone on to evolve the Su-30MK series - with added
air-to-ground capability, along the lines of the F-15E.

These are the a/c supplied to India (as the Su-30MKI with canards and TVC) and
China (as the Su-30MKK) - both variants are to be built under licence in those
respective countries.

The cash-strapped Russians meanwhile, are upgrading their fleet of Su-27UB's with
some of the systems developed for the export Su-30's.

They are to be called Su-27UBM's.

It's all explained in the brochure ..........
http://www.duffeyk.fsnet.co.uk/su-27_variants.html

(some of my links are missing - I am busy re-building my web pages)!!

PS - "Poyekhali!" (pronounced Pie-akali) is what we say to our Russian coach
driver when we are all aboard and ready to leave the hotel on a trip to the
airshow in Moscow!

[Claus Gustafsen]

Aren't the BIS series all two seat trainers?

"EGMcCann" <egmc...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:b7ct62$db597$1...@ID-160738.news.dfncis.de...

[e]

>
>Aren't the BIS series all two seat trainers?
>
>

nope. many bis in the red ladies in waiting book and none
are two seaters, unless originally so.

[Stephen FPilot Bierce]

"Bis" means "again" (from Latin). Basically a second major run after a
redesign.

Stephen "FPilot" Bierce/IPMS #35922
{Sig Quotes Removed on Request}

[EGMcCann]

Nope.

Photos of Bis's(esseses.)
http://domino.kappa.ro/paginivirtuale/aerostar.nsf/4e9dcbc9cdd2c02cc22568710
039248e/0e6797c9fc01a43dc22568790040d7bc?OpenDocument

http://www.aerolubes.com/mig21.asp

http://domino.kappa.ro/PaginiVirtuale/aerostar.nsf/Toate/noi/$File/news1-2.j
pg (interesting camo scheme, IMHO)

http://www.ratol.fi/~jrautio/MG.HTML

http://croatian-air-force.freeyellow.com/

All BIS, and not a single family model in the bunch.

"Claus Gustafsen" <cl...@gustafsen.nu> wrote in message
news:3e9b1cae$0$42588$edfa...@dread11.news.tele.dk...