Enterprise Grid Lines
NTRPRZ
How many grid lines (radiating and circular) are there on the upper saucer
section of the TOS Enterprise?
Please don't tell me there aren't any. There are. It's an old arguement,
but there are.
Trouble is, the photos I have don't show enough of the upper saucer
section for me to be sure. I want to add them onto my TOS Cutaway (the
non-cutaway version I'm making!), and so I need to be sure.
Can anyone help?
Ruediger Landmann
NTRPRZ (ntr...@aol.com) wrote:
: How many grid lines (radiating and circular) are there on the upper saucer
Sorry, but the best photos I have show no lines. Can you tell me which
pictures you're looking at? I'd be really interested in knowing the answer
to this one.
Otherwise, perhaps the original Tech manual is the way to go with this
one.
Why not also post this to rec.arts.startrek.tech ?
DMeriman
Gerry Kerr sent a bunch of prints of the broken down miniature while it
was undergoing restoration at Ed Meriaki's (spelling?) facillity for
restoration.
Ain't no 'grid lines'. They were on the Jefferies drawing which had other
detail goof's picked up by AMT
David Merriman, Jr.
p.s. I scratch built a 29" 1701 for a client and was very much into
documenting the beast at one time
Benjamin Cody Bailey
> Gerry Kerr sent a bunch of prints of the broken down miniature while it
> was undergoing restoration at Ed Meriaki's (spelling?) facillity for
> restoration.
> Ain't no 'grid lines'. They were on the Jefferies drawing which had other
> detail goof's picked up by AMT
The Smithsonian Enterprise and the model used for the DS9 "Tribbles" episode
both have grids on them, so I'm accepting the grid as canon. The Smithsonian
model shows what I call a 7 * 7 pattern, meaning 7 concentric circles with 7
radiating lines per quarter (or 28 altogether) when I started to scribe these
lines, I found that the 7 * 7 pattern would be difficult on a scale that
small. The angles are about 12.3 degrees. I went with a 6 * 6 pattern, which
is what most tech manuals show. The radiating lines are 15 degrees apart and
more manageable. This is an area where license can be taken. Suggestion: If
you want to use a 7 * 7 pattern, the AMT model has a 7 * 7 grid pattern. This
may help get your angles right.
Jamie Chen
From what I can see on my photos (and from what I heard from others),
the grid patterns seem to be a painted effect, not scribed into the
saucer. However, on the Phase II Enterprise, it is definitely engraved
into the saucer. I want to build my cutaway with the grid pattern
replicating the original (painted effect of engraved), so can any
clarify which method is used on the studio model?
Maskman
its my understanding that the grid lines in the original studio model
were added during its most recent restoration (defacement?) at the
smithsonian... I saw it there many years ago, when the n\museum first
opened, and there were no lines whatsoever......
the tribbilations model was beautiful, but i question the addition of
the lines...
its also my understanding that the weathering on the original studio
model was done with pencil and pastels.. this might be a way to go to
subtly indicate the grid
TrekFX
There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
The hobbyist would be best served by reproducing them as lightly penciled
lines, usig a sraightedge for the radial lines and a compass for the
concentric lines.
Not to start an argument, but I have seen them. They are there. I agree
that AMT people must have been drinking too much coffee when they did
their masters for the old kit...
Benjamin Cody Bailey
> From what I can see on my photos (and from what I heard from others),
> the grid patterns seem to be a painted effect, not scribed into the
> saucer. However, on the Phase II Enterprise, it is definitely engraved
> into the saucer. I want to build my cutaway with the grid pattern
> replicating the original (painted effect of engraved), so can any
> clarify which method is used on the studio model?
It's hard to say. The original in the Smithsonian looks like a paint job,
but the DS9 model looks like light scribing. I scribed mine in with a
sharp leather needle inside of a lead holder. This produced an extremely
thin line, but deep enough to see. After the scribing, I went over and
over it with very fine sanding film. This produced the effect of not being
able to see the grid unless the light is right, like I saw on the DS9
episode. Another idea I had was to draw them on with a silver pen, but
wasn't able to find one fine enough.
Jamie Chen
Hey Maskman,
I think you're right. After reading your post, I dug through my closet
and found some photos I took 11 years ago of the 'E' at the
Smithsonian. The original paintjob doesn't seem to have the grid
patterns, but I can't be certain because my prints were very
underexposed (forgot to bring the flash). The jpeg of the Smithsonian
model I recently downloaded, shows a grid pattern, and I recall hearing
someone mention that it was always on the studio model but didn't show
up the episodes due to the age/quality of the prints (the reason why the
'E' sometimes looks greenish). I know some details on the DS9 models
didn't show up on the old series. For example, there were dark grey
patches underneath the nacelles, in front of the pylons (which I never
noticed before). On a recent rerun of the old series (I can't remember
the episode), the grey patch were definitely there but it was so hard to
see that if you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't have noticed it.
So I'm thinking that might be the case with the grid lines, it might
have been there, but hard to see. I'm reluctant to go with the
"non-grid" first restoration paint job as being 100 percent faithful to
the original because I think I remember reading somewhere that when the
Smithsonian first got the model, the paint was so badly deteriorated and
faded that perhaps the grid pattern wasn't visible. So maybe for this
reason, their first restoration didn't include the grid pattern on the
saucer section. I just wish there was someone with real authoritative
knowledge (like Mr. Sternbach), that can give a clear and definite
answer and put this issue to rest.
cult...@aol.com
>
>its my understanding that the grid lines in the original studio model
>were added during its most recent restoration (defacement?) at the
>smithsonian... I saw it there many years ago, when the n\museum first
>opened, and there were no lines whatsoever......
>the tribbilations model was beautiful, but i question the addition of
>the lines...
>
>its also my understanding that the weathering on the original studio
>model was done with pencil and pastels.. this might be a way to go to
>subtly indicate the grid
>
>--
Damn grid lines....
The Enterprise as it sits in the Smithsonian today is no longer a good
referance for painiting. It has been extensively "restored" adding
detail that was not there originally.
The grid lines that are present on the AMT model may have been inspired by
the sketches in the book "The Making Of Star Trek". That book reproduced
some of Matt Jefferies diagrams of the ship, and we've suffered with grid
lines ever since.
The studio model did have some very, very, very faint grids. One person
suggested that this was where the seams of the plastic sheets that formed
the hull were joind. I also recently read somewhere that the main who
rebuilt the E had the best quality resources and was able to detect a
faint grid on the original model.
Whatever grid was there was nothing like what you see on the "restored"
Enterprise in the Smithsonian. The detail that has been added would have
been most noticable on the original series.
However the Klingon ship is another story. There were clearly grid lines
on the Klingon ship in Trials and Tribbulations. But there never was
gridlines on the original Klingon model. This ship was recently displayed
at the Smithsonian and it has not been restored.
If you wish to see photos of the TV enterprise, Movie Enterprise, TV and
Movie Klingon ships, and several other Trek vessels, visit my SF Modelers
Page at
http://members.aol.com/CultTVman/model.html
There are several pages of photos from the Smithsonian display.
HappySF Modeling
Steve
Steve Iverson
Cult...@aol.com
Visit my Cult Video page at http://members.aol.com/CultTVman/links.html
or visit CultTVman's Toybox at
http://members.aol.com/CultTVman/toys.html
or visit CultTVman's SF modeling at
http://members.aol.com/CultTVman/model.html
======================>my homepage http://members.aol.com/CultTVman
Jack Smith
In article <32EB17...@ix.netcom.com>,
Jamie Chen <jami...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Maskman wrote:
>>
>> its my understanding that the grid lines in the original studio model
>> were added during its most recent restoration (defacement?) at the
>> smithsonian... I saw it there many years ago, when the n\museum first
>> opened, and there were no lines whatsoever......
>> the tribbilations model was beautiful, but i question the addition of
>> the lines...
>>
>> its also my understanding that the weathering on the original studio
>> model was done with pencil and pastels.. this might be a way to go to
>> subtly indicate the grid
>
>
Here is the answer:
There WERE grid lines on the original Enterprise! I have photos
(supplied to me by another r.m.s.er) that shows the lines on the top saucer
section. These are clearly taken BEFORE the restoration of the model, as
parts of the bridge letters are flaked off!
If anyone is interested in the true nature of the lines, email
me for a copy of the pics.
Jack Smith
-----------------------------------------------------
While you're on the Web, check out the Millennium Falcon accessories at:
Spot's Rock:
http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~achine/default
TrekFX
This is a great debate!
Ok, here's some more!
After the original series ended, the E model went into storage at
Paramount. It was much later (in the late '70's) donated to the
Smithsonian. The ol' gal was in bad shape, so at that time they did an
*initial restoration* at their in-house facilities.
What people saw hanging from the ceiling from that point until the 1992
restoration was a *repainted* but *not weathered* or otherwise detailed
Enterprise. Essentially, the good ship Enterprise was only partially
dressed. And she had a salad bowl for a main deflector dish. (Oh, the
public humiliation...)
As part of their policy, Smithsonian restorations always try to leave a
portion of an item all-original, that is to say untouched, unrestored or
otherwise tampered with. In the case of the original '70s restoration and
the '92 restoration, the upper saucer surface is the original; paint,
weathering, et al. The sad part is, the way they chose to display it was
not really conductive to examining the upper saucer (if you ever visited
the Smithsonian to see the original E, after either restoration, you'll
know what I mean). The bridge and upper "teardrop" section were restored
as part of the '92 effort, but they were in really bad shape physically.
They are constructed of wood, and it didn't age particularly well, with
some cracking evident prior to restoration.
I feel Ed Miarecki did a good job on the '92 restoration. At the same
time, I think that some, not all, of the weathering is just a *little*
strong, specifically the grid on the *underside* of the saucer. There
should be one there....my references do indicate their presence...
Oh well, what's perfect after all? If everything was, we wouldn't have as
much to talk about!
About those Klingon grids...
I heard somewhere, don't ask me where, that Greg Jein and friends decided
that since the Klingon ships were never actually shown in the original
"tribbles" episode that they would, for the sake of being more visually
interesting to depict a ship of a different "class." Same basic design,
just a little extra "stuff". Kinda the same way they explain the
difference between original series (smooth-headed) Klingons and the new
(prune-headed) Klingons!
Maskman
i agree its facinating...
it aws really tough to see the upper saucer surface when it was
originally displayed.. i had to see it from the vantage point of the
escalator, and shoot as fast as hell with the camera!
i was under the impression that the original saucer was vaccum molded...
(hey is this ng the proper forum for this debate?)
Kevin
On 26 Jan 1997 00:24:01 GMT, tre...@aol.com (TrekFX) wrote:
>There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
>I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
>
Now to burst all the balloons
If you all read the CINEFANTASTIQUE July 97 article on special visual
effects, you will see that the builder of both the 3ft and 12ft models
says and I quote:
"The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks
except for the lettering and numbers. The NCC 1701 number originally
came from Matt Jeffries 1935 Waco airplane that he owned. The
Smithsonian had scribed lines to indicate panels, chanding the
character of the whole model."
This can be found on page 68 along with close up photos of the bridge
area that clearly shows no grid lines on the upper section of the
saucer section.
If what the orginal builder says isn't good enough for everyone then
go back to your dreams and do what ever you like, if you put grid
lines on it, it won't be accurate.
TrekFX
>If what the orginal builder says isn't good enough for everyone then
>go back to your dreams and do what ever you like, if you put grid
>lines on it, it won't be accurate.
If you have a pretty good monitor, check out "Tholian Web". In some of the
shots , you can just discern that saucer topside grid. If you can get
through the layers of optical goo. Let them say what they may. If it's
there and you see it, it's there. Enjoy your balloons...I have all the
evidence I need to feel comfortable! I look at the actual miniature and
there are lines. What can I say beyond that?
By the way, the original builders are refering to the model as delivered
for the first pilot. I agree, no weathering or anything...at that time. It
*was* subsequently weathered during the shooting of the series.
DMeriman
Warning, Warning, Will Robinson.....
some of the ST episodes were shot using the AMT kit as an effects
miniature!
....them pesky grid line!
David Merriman, Jr.
Maskman
i think it is easier than that to settle... in the pilot episode the
camera zooms right in over the saucer to the bridge.... it seems quite
smooth
(yeah i know that the model was slightly modified between the pilot and
series....... but i still never saw a grid..... )
David Christy
Kevin wrote:
>
> On 26 Jan 1997 00:24:01 GMT, tre...@aol.com (TrekFX) wrote:
>
> >There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
> >I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
> >
>
> Now to burst all the balloons
>
> If you all read the CINEFANTASTIQUE July 97 article on special visual
> effects, you will see that the builder of both the 3ft and 12ft models
> says and I quote:
>
> "The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks
> except for the lettering and numbers. The NCC 1701 number originally
> came from Matt Jeffries 1935 Waco airplane that he owned. The
> Smithsonian had scribed lines to indicate panels, chanding the
> character of the whole model."
>
> This can be found on page 68 along with close up photos of the bridge
> area that clearly shows no grid lines on the upper section of the
> saucer section.
>
> go back to your dreams and do what ever you like, if you put grid
> lines on it, it won't be accurate.
Kevin,
Are sure the issue is June 1997? I'd be interested in seeing it, but
your publication date is still in MY future...:)
David Christy
Wayne C. Morris
In article <32EB08...@ili.net>,
Maskman <mas...@ili.net> wrote:
>its my understanding that the grid lines in the original studio model
>were added during its most recent restoration (defacement?) at the
>smithsonian... I saw it there many years ago, when the n\museum first
>opened, and there were no lines whatsoever......
>the tribbilations model was beautiful, but i question the addition of
>the lines...
I believe Rick Sternbach has stated in this newsgroup that, when preparing
for that episode, they took some old master footage from the original
series and used computers to enhance the images. He said that after being
computer-enhanced, the panels were visible, so that's why they put panel
lines on the new model they made for "Trials and Tribble-ations".
On looking at my tape of "Where No Man Has Gone Before", I found that
panels are _barely_ visible on the saucer top during a close-up about 10
minutes into the show. However, they aren't actually lines, they're more
like edges between areas that aren't quite the same color. Looks to me
like they masked around individual panels and airbrushed the edges so as to
get some variation between panels. But compared to the other markings on
the ship that were clearly visible in this and other scenes, the paneling
was very subtle.
In my opinion, Rick Sternbach et al overestimated how prominent the panels
were on the original Enterprise, and in trying to make the panels more
visible they ended up exagerating them too much.
On the other hand, I think the T&T version was better than the
Smithsonian's recent restoration of the original studio model. At least
two people who worked on the original series have also expressed
displeasure with the Smithsonian's restoration job.
Wayne C. Morris
In article <32eb872b...@news.dc.infi.net>,
ad...@dc.infi.net (Kevin) wrote:
>On 26 Jan 1997 00:24:01 GMT, tre...@aol.com (TrekFX) wrote:
>
>>There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
>>I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
>>
>
>Now to burst all the balloons
>
>If you all read the CINEFANTASTIQUE July 97 article on special visual
You mean July 1996.
>effects, you will see that the builder of both the 3ft and 12ft models
>says and I quote:
>
>"The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks
>except for the lettering and numbers. The NCC 1701 number originally
>came from Matt Jeffries 1935 Waco airplane that he owned. The
>Smithsonian had scribed lines to indicate panels, chanding the
>character of the whole model."
>
>This can be found on page 68 along with close up photos of the bridge
>area that clearly shows no grid lines on the upper section of the
>saucer section.
There's a minor flaw in that argument: Those photos do not accurately
reflect the state of the model when it was filmed. This can be proved by
comparing the photo on page 68 of that magazine to the opening shot of the
original pilot episode, "The Cage", which is available on videotape.
Furthermore, the remarks of Mr. Datin, whom you quote, must be taken with a
grain of salt. He may be exagerating his involvment with the filming of
the Trek sfx; he may not have been around when other people made later
changes to the sfx model; and after so many years, he simply might not
remember some of the changes that were made to it after he first built it.
The aforementioned photo and videotape both clearly show the high-domed
bridge of the original version of the Enterprise as it appeared in "The
Cage". But where the photo shows a plain surface with a large rectangular
window, the videotape shows no such window and several other markings in
its place. It is obvious that the model must have been modified between
the time the photo was taken and the time they started filming the sfx for
"The Cage"; it is therefore at least plausible that other details were
added after the photo was taken.
And of course we know that further changes were made sometime after filming
of "The Cage", such as the flattening of the bridge dome and the removal of
the nacelle dome spikes, so the photo is even less useful for constructing
the final version of the classic Enterprise.
For proof that there _were_ panel markings of some kind, check a videotape
of the second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before". About 10 minutes into
the show, there's a closeup shot of the top of the Enterprise's saucer.
The panel edges are faint but definitely there.
However, I do believe that the Smithsonian's recent restoration of the
original model left it with panel lines that are grossly exagerated.
NTRPRZ
Subject: Re: Enterprise Grid Lines
From: ad...@dc.infi.net (Kevin)
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:25:32 GMT
Message-ID: <32eb872b...@news.dc.infi.net>
On 26 Jan 1997 00:24:01 GMT, tre...@aol.com (TrekFX) wrote:
>There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
>I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
>
Now to burst all the balloons
If you all read the CINEFANTASTIQUE July 97 article on special visual
effects, you will see that the builder of both the 3ft and 12ft models
says and I quote:
"The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks
except for the lettering and numbers. The NCC 1701 number originally
came from Matt Jeffries 1935 Waco airplane that he owned. The
Smithsonian had scribed lines to indicate panels, chanding the
character of the whole model."
This can be found on page 68 along with close up photos of the bridge
area that clearly shows no grid lines on the upper section of the
saucer section.
If what the orginal builder says isn't good enough for everyone then
go back to your dreams and do what ever you like, if you put grid
lines on it, it won't be accurate.
********************* I apologize for the above, but I don't know how to
copy stuff ***************
Yes, the ORIGINAL model of the Enterprise had no such detailing. I have
slides of it which I bought from Lincoln Enterprises eons ago and they do
NOT show grid lines. However, this is the ORIGINAL version, used for the
first pilot. When Star Trek went into production, the model was altered
(removed spikes from warp domes, lowered the bridge, added a hanger bay,
etc) and then the grid lines were added. I have photos from 1977 of the
unrestored top of the saucer section and the lines are there. Or to
paraphrase Galileo, 'But it does move!"
Absolutely no doubt, folks. The grid lines on the upper saucer are there.
I've seen them, I have proof and that is good enough for me.
Jeff
LeeToon
We *do* realize we're talking about a fictional construct, do we not?
Don Lee
Sandusky, Ohio
Opinions are my own. If you agree with me, that is your problem.
Roger Sorensen
LeeToon wrote:
>
> We *do* realize we're talking about a fictional construct, do we not?
The Enterprise as a starship may be an object of fiction, but it's also
a real object in the sense that there is an original (in this case, a
studio miniature) that we're trying to accurately emulate. We just don't
have the luxury of scads of "... In Action" publications that provide
photographs of every square foot of the real thing's surface. Hence
discussions like this thread arise.
Potayto
Potahto
Since the grid is virtually undetectable from all but point-blank
viewing distances, I'll probably leave it off my uncutaway.
--
Roger Sorensen / rsor...@csbsju.edu
http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~rsorense/
If Star Trek IS a franchise, how does one become a franchisee?
Robert Beach
Well, all I can say is, the Trekkie modelers are having *way* too much
fun! Not has an Enterprise 1701 Detail and Scale is really a
blessing...do what you like! [Although I've got to admit, I'll probably
scrap the cutaway interior as being too "inaccurate" HaHaHa....no
really!] '^D
--
Respectfully Yours in Glue,
Robert Beach
Norfolk, VA USA
*************************
Jack Smith
In article <19970128075...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
ntr...@aol.com (NTRPRZ) wrote:
>Subject: Re: Enterprise Grid Lines
>From: ad...@dc.infi.net (Kevin)
>Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 19:25:32 GMT
>Message-ID: <32eb872b...@news.dc.infi.net>
>
>On 26 Jan 1997 00:24:01 GMT, tre...@aol.com (TrekFX) wrote:
>
>>There absolutely *are* grid lines. Subtle to be sure, but they are there.
>>I have photos of the original FX model to prove it.
>>
>
>Now to burst all the balloons
>
>If you all read the CINEFANTASTIQUE July 97 article on special visual
>effects, you will see that the builder of both the 3ft and 12ft models
>says and I quote:
>
>"The original model was smooth and didn't show any lines or marks
>except for the lettering and numbers. The NCC 1701 number originally
>came from Matt Jeffries 1935 Waco airplane that he owned. The
>Smithsonian had scribed lines to indicate panels, chanding the
>character of the whole model."
>
>This can be found on page 68 along with close up photos of the bridge
>area that clearly shows no grid lines on the upper section of the
>saucer section.
>
>If what the orginal builder says isn't good enough for everyone then
>go back to your dreams and do what ever you like, if you put grid
>lines on it, it won't be accurate.
Quite a few people responded to my post about seeing the pictures of the
Enterprise (prime) with its true grid lines. The response was so great in
fact, that in the interest of time/money, I have just posted them on my web
page. The direct URL is:
http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~achine/grid.html
but if that doesn't work, go to
http://funnelweb.utcc.utk.edu/~achine/
and follow the link.
Thanks!!
.
Benjamin Cody Bailey
I think nobody wants to take the time to do a good detailing job.
YER ALL YELLA!!!!
Love and kisses.
John J Fleming
LeeToon wrote:
>
> We *do* realize we're talking about a fictional construct, do we not?
Who told you that Don?? Just where do they come up with such silly
ideas?? Fictional construct!! Ha!! Shows what you know. :-)
______________________________________________________________
John J Fleming - Jo...@COLDNORTH.Com - Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
COLD NORTH Publishing - 1349 Leaside Avenue, Unit #3 - K1Z 7R2
------------------- http://www.coldnorth.com -----------------
Wayne C. Morris
In article <5cctnb$c36$2...@nargun.cc.uq.oz.au>,
s30...@student.uq.edu.au (Ruediger Landmann) wrote:
>Sorry, but the best photos I have show no lines. Can you tell me which
>pictures you're looking at? I'd be really interested in knowing the answer
>to this one.
>
>Otherwise, perhaps the original Tech manual is the way to go with this
>one.
No, unfortunately Franz Joseph's "Star Fleet Technical Manual" isn't a
reliable source. There are a lot of inaccuracies in his work. Fascinating
material, but not much good as a modelling reference.
Likewise his blueprints of the U.S.S. Enterprise may contain errors in the
exterior views, and the deck plans are 99% his own invention.
TrekFX
"...fictional construct..."
There *is* a real ship...it just happens to be 11' long, that's all.
That is to say, there is a prototype to be followed in the effort to
create an accurate replica of a fictional spacecraft...Oh, heck, you know
what I mean!
Happy modelling, subtle panel lines and all.
Wayne C. Morris
In article <19970126225...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
dmer...@aol.com (DMeriman) wrote:
>some of the ST episodes were shot using the AMT kit as an effects
>miniature!
>
>....them pesky grid line!
Only when they needed a battle-damaged Constitution-class starship (eg USS
Constellation in "The Doomsday Machine"), or when they needed a much
smaller model for something special where it wouldn't been close up.
If it's the Enterprise herself (not a sister ship), and the shot is close
enough for you to see a grid pattern, it has to be the main sfx model. The
genuine article. When they used an AMT kit as a stand-in, the camera never
got close enough to pick up the grid lines.
LeeToon
John J Fleming wrote:
< Who told you that Don?? Just where do they come up with such silly
ideas?? Fictional construct!! Ha!! Shows what you know. :-)>
dad with the breathing problem, and their friends the big hairy guy and
the nice lady with the cinnabons on the sides of her head told me so.
LeeToon
Hmph.
Well, if the *original* in this case is the studio model, do we duplicate
the mounting posts and the ripped up side where lighting and wiring was
installed later?
Or do you do like me, take your ERTL the Turtle original Enterprise, which
has fallen off the TV too many times, scrap the secondary hull, streamline
the backs of the nacelles into some interim step between the TOS nacelles
and the TMP nacelles, build a much more robust hull/nacelle unit and add
some real cargo space to the primary saucer, use your birthdate for the
NCC number and name it after a big radio telescope, and tell people that's
how the durn thing shoulda' looked in the first place? Panel lines and
all?
jeffrey w. larue
DMeriman wrote:
>
> Warning, Warning, Will Robinson.....
>
> some of the ST episodes were shot using the AMT kit as an effects
> miniature!
>
> ....them pesky grid line!
>
Yup, the episodes 'The Trouble With Tribbles' and 'The Doomsday Machine'
come readily to mind......
-Jeff
--
.---------------------------------------------------------------.
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Matthew Y. Hayashibara
lee...@aol.com (LeeToon) wrote:
>We *do* realize we're talking about a fictional construct, do we not?
Hey, models are REAL, even if the *subjects* aren't!!! :-)
People can strive for accuracy in making models of special effects
models if tha's what they wanna do. And there's nothing stopping you
from painting your Trek ship purple.
There is room for all of the kinds of models that modelers make, just
as there should be room for all kinds of modelers.
MadMat
Matthew Y. Hayashibara
Robert Beach <rbea...@norfolk.infi.net> wrote:
>Well, all I can say is, the Trekkie modelers are having *way* too much
>fun! Not has an Enterprise 1701 Detail and Scale is really a
>blessing...do what you like! [Although I've got to admit, I'll probably
>scrap the cutaway interior as being too "inaccurate" HaHaHa....no
>really!] '^D
Sorry, but we're suspending your artistic license...
MadMat
Donald L. Matthys
I painted my panel detail on with a slight grey hull variation of
Testers Aircraft grey. (in the tiny bottles) The shade has a 'o so
light twenge of green'. Post-it note paper and friscut was used as
masks. It is painted as the original is now in the Smithsonian Air
and Space Museum. But my weathering is more subtile unlike the last
restoration which I think was a little overdone. But remember the
show was shot in the 60's and those details have to be
overemphasized to make it onto film.
Don
Donald L. Matthys
Mike,
I do concure with your theory on the "Grid Line" debate. When I
put out my resin update kit for the model I left it up to the
modeler to decide for themselves on the panel line issue in the
paint instructions. I went with a subtle painted on grid as the
original now. But I do like the DS9 effect of fine etched lines.
Good discusion however.
Don
Jack Smith
In article <5coctv$k...@hacgate2.hac.com>,
Just as a follow up note...I just saw the TOS Trek episode with the "salt
sucking monster". In it they do a VERY close fly-by of the upper saucer, and
just like the photos at my page show, there are definitely grid lines.
Anybody know the name of the episode so I can refer others to it?
Jack
David Christy
"Mantrap"....
David Christy
Ruediger Landmann
Jack Smith (ach...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu) wrote:
: Just as a follow up note...I just saw the TOS Trek episode with the "salt
: sucking monster". In it they do a VERY close fly-by of the upper saucer, and
: just like the photos at my page show, there are definitely grid lines.
: Anybody know the name of the episode so I can refer others to it?
"The Man Trap"
Andrew Madison
Wayne C. Morris (junk....@just.say.no) wrote:
: In article <5cctnb$c36$2...@nargun.cc.uq.oz.au>,
: s30...@student.uq.edu.au (Ruediger Landmann) wrote:
The confusion probably stems from the fact that several recent books and
the Enterprise-D blueprints were authored by senior members of the Art
Department staff for "ST:xxx" namely Mike & Denise Okuda and Rick
Sternbach. Those materials, which are derived from or created by the
folks charged with designing the art materials for Star Trek are
considered by many in trekdom as having at least a semi-canonical
status.
However, the Franz Joeseph materials, the original _Tech Manual_, and the
"classic Enterprise Blueprints," started their life as fan produced art,
published in fanzines and what not. Now I forget, I think Franz Joeseph
had a tenuous connection to the original art department, but he wasn't a
dept. head like Mssr.s Okuda & Sternbach. For those who are fussy about
such things here's one version of the cannonical heirarchy (but its an IMHO):
Cannon: Televison Episodes of Classic ST & ST:TNG.
Cannonical as long as it makes for a good script: ST Films
Semi-Cannonical: The Animated Series, Paramount Licensed materials by
the Okudas &/or Sternbach
Partially Cannonical: Franz Joeseph materials (for example, the Enterprise
Deck plans appear on a monitor in ST:TMP.)
Nice to look at: many fan produced technical materials, other
publications.
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