Troubles with washes!
Scott Patten
I did my first wash last night. I thought I did everything you all told me.
I coated the model in Future. Used artist oil paint (Raw Umber) mixed with
Testor's Thinner. When i did the wash all it did was leave what looks like
powder chunks in the cracks and all over. It gave a great dirty effect but
it just doesn't look like "paint". Was the paint just not mixed enough with
the thinner? Should i use something else other than thinner? When i looked
at the wash fluid this morning, it had separated. On the bottom was a layer
of paint that looked like coffee grinds. I noticed those clumps when i did
the wash also. Overall it looks more like pastel work than painting.
Another thing, when i put the wash on, the color was much deeper than when
it dried. Thanks for any suggestions.
Scott
RLobinske
First off, artists oils are not compatable with Testers thinner, as evidenced
by the "coffee ground" effect, so you also probably had this separation as the
wash dried. Overall, I prefer not to do all over washes, but targeted washes.
For things like panel lines, apply a wash of a dark shade of the base color to
the recessed line with a liner brush and allow capillary action to pull the
paint in, you may need to help it along a bit. For areas with an actual
separation, like ailerons and wings, I use black for the wash. For working
with things like figures, I make a wash of a dark shade of the base color and
flow it into the folds only.
Richard Lobinske
Mjrudymodl
>I did my first wash last night. I thought I did everything you all told
>I coated the model in Future. Used artist oil paint (Raw Umber) mixed
>Testor's Thinner. When i did the wash all it did was leave what looks
>powder chunks in the cracks and all over. It gave a great dirty effect
>it just doesn't look like "paint". Was the paint just not mixed enough
>the thinner? Should i use something else other than thinner? When i
>at the wash fluid this morning, it had separated. On the bottom was a
>of paint that looked like coffee grinds. I noticed those clumps when i
>the wash also. Overall it looks more like pastel work than painting.<BR>
>Another thing, when i put the wash on, the color was much deeper than
>it dried. Thanks for any suggestions.<BR>
Sounds to me like you used a thinner not exactly compatible with the paint you
used. I say "not exactly" because it may be compatible enough in smaller
quantities (such as to make a thick paint thin enough to brush without marks)
but not in that high a concentration. My advice is to use the same brand of
paint and thinner and try again.
M. J. Rudy
mjrud...@aol.com
Have you checked here lately?
http://members.aol.com/MRudyruthl/rudymodl.html
Charles Metz
Scott Patten wrote:
> I did my first wash last night. I thought I did everything you all
> Umber) mixed with Testor's Thinner. When i did the wash all it did
> was leave what looks like powder chunks in the cracks and all over.
--snip--
You used the wrong thinner: artists' oil paints are linseed-oil based,
so they don't dissolve in Testor's Thinner (or in mineral spirits,
etc.). You could use turpentine, but I recommend "Turpenoid", a
proprietary synthetic turpentine that's less hot and doesn't smell quite
so bad.
Charles Metz
PSC
Turpenoid is the best - but I've tried Naptha ( lighter fluid ) as well,
for a very fast dry. Parks Odorless Mineral Spirits will work - but it's
a bit too "Hot", IMHO.
One thing you didn't mention is how long you let the "Future" cure. I
found that it appears hard almost immediately, but takes a few days to
dry hard enough to always withstand an artists oil / Turpenoid wash. You
can melt it if you "wash" too soon. Polly Scale acrylic Gloss thinned &
airbrushed also works well, and cures quicker. You also should wait a
few days after painting your colors before applying Future.
Also, use only the best "artists" quality oils - for example, use
Windsor & Newton Artists, not "Winton", which is their "student"
quality. A bit more expensive, but the pigments are finer and they seem
to just work better.
Also, you really must have a VERY THIN mix, and apply only to the panel
lines where you want it with a very small brush ( I use a 5/0 or smaller
for 1:48 acft. ) Let it flow along the lines and dry fairly thoroughly -
so that the wash has a "flat" appearance. I then use a Q-tip wet with
water to remove any "overage" - this sometimes requires a bit of
rubbing, but I prefer it to a Turpenoid Q-tip since the oils will not go
back into solution with water.
Finally, when you get it to work ( take your time & practice), be
subtle. Raw Umber or Charcoal Grey or your own lightened mix is better
than black - which is too contrasty, IMHO.
Another nifty effect using oils - paint your exhaust stacks a very dark
brown and then use (seperately) Burnt Sienna, Purple, and Light grey
washes very thinly "puddled" and removed using a small brush to give a
very realistic oxidized look.
Pete Chalmers
Paolo Pizzi
Scott Patten wrote:
>
> I did my first wash last night. I thought I did everything you
> all told me. I coated the model in Future. Used artist oil paint
> (Raw Umber) mixed with Testor's Thinner.
Try with acrylic washes, much easier to undo if you screw up.
Something like 5% paint and 95% Windex or rubbing alcohol.
Yes, it's normal that the wash looks much darker when wet and
much more subtle once it dries, that's what's supposed to look
like.
Paolo Pizzi
http://navismagazine.com
Andy Macrae
Hi Guys,
I've read with interest all these postings about washes. I'd tried all
the turpentine/oil paint and acrylic/thinners mixes and never been that
succesful. Then I discovered that Citadel Miniatures had some washes in
their acrylic paint range, designed for use on wargaming figures. These
come in black, dark brown, chestnut brown and "armour" wash. A 50/50
mixture of the dark brown and black is great for panel lines on aircraft
and the armour wash is great for radial engines etc. The washes are ready
thinned and any overspill can be cleaned off easily using a damp tissue
(before it dries). I apply them to a gloss enamel finish (Xtracolor) or
to gloss coated acrylics (Aeromaster) and have had no problems. The brush
that you use can simply be cleaned in soapy water. I don't know how
availible these are in the USA, I suggest you try wargaming suppliers,
but I can recommend them. No mess, no fuss. I only wish they did more
shades.
Hope this helps,
Andy "FREEDOM" Macrae
DonSS3
To add to the question on washes:
I've used Turp/Oil washes and have been generally successful (landing gear
bays, legs, cockpits, etc) but the one place where I do have problems is around
decals. Now, decals also need to be part of the weathering process, but I have
problems with the wash sneaking under the decals and creating a "spiderweb"
effect, very noticable under light (ie, Stars 'n Bars, Roundels) decals and
stencilling. Do I need to put my overcoat on a little heavier?
TIA
Don
According to Hemingway:
"There are only three true sports; Auto Racing, Bullfighting and Mountain
climbing. All the rest are children's games at which men play."
PSC
DonSS3 wrote:
>
> To add to the question on washes:
> I've used Turp/Oil washes and have been generally successful (landing gear
> bays, legs, cockpits, etc) but the one place where I do have problems is around
> decals. Now, decals also need to be part of the weathering process, but I have
> problems with the wash sneaking under the decals and creating a "spiderweb"
> effect, very noticable under light (ie, Stars 'n Bars, Roundels) decals and
> stencilling. Do I need to put my overcoat on a little heavier?
> TIA
>
Yes, at least over the decals. Also, use a gloss overcoat ( obvious with
Future ) as this lets you more precisely control the "thickness" of the
wash - you can remove pretty much all of it if you have to, whereas if
you put the wash over Polly Scale Flat, for example, it gets in all the
"pores" in the flat finish, resulting in a dirty appearance which is
hard to correct - OK for armor and in some cases on aircraft, if that's
what you want.
For 1:48 aircraft, I glosscoat, decal, closscoat again over decals,
wash, clean & remove wash as necessary, and final coat with a very thin
airbrushed mix of Polly Scale Flat:Gloss 3:1 to 5:1 depending on the
"sheen" I want, which gives a very smooth coat. Again, it's very
important to give the acrylic gloss coats plenty of time to cure before
washing - 48 hours is my usual wait.
Pete Chalmers
Paolo Pizzi
DonSS3 wrote:
>
> To add to the question on washes:
> I've used Turp/Oil washes and have been generally successful (landing gear
> bays, legs, cockpits, etc) but the one place where I do have problems is around
> decals. Now, decals also need to be part of the weathering process, but I have
> problems with the wash sneaking under the decals and creating a "spiderweb"
> effect, very noticable under light (ie, Stars 'n Bars, Roundels) decals and
> stencilling. Do I need to put my overcoat on a little heavier?
> TIA
Two things:
1. use a setting solution to make sure that decals adhere perfectly.
2. weather your model only AFTER you have dullcoted and restored a
flat finish. Besides, the dullcote will make decals waterproof.
Paolo Pizzi
http://navismagazine.com
Andy Macrae
DonSS3 wrote:
Now, decals also need to be part of the weathering process, but I have
> problems with the wash sneaking under the decals and creating a "spiderweb"
> effect, very noticable under light (ie, Stars 'n Bars, Roundels) decals and
> stencilling. Do I need to put my overcoat on a little heavier?
Hi Don,
This is not a problem I've come across. I'm assuming that you use some
form of decal solvent to ensure that the decals are pulled tightly down
onto the surface and into any panel lines. I sometimes find I have to
"encourage" large decals to conform to deep panel lines with careful use
of a blunt cocktail stick. I have to say that I apply the washes before
any topcoat and as yet have had no trouble. It may well be that the
turps/paint mixture is a acting as solvent on either the topcoat or decal
itself. You don't say what topcoat you use but you may have to apply
a couple of coats and leave them to dry for a couple of days. I would
reccomend the use of Kleer (called Future in the U.S. I believe) as this
gives a nice gloss finish which takes washes well and is used by many
modellers to seal decals.
DonSS3
Thanks for all the info. It sounds like I just need to apply a heavier topcoat
over the decals. I use one of Floquil's Crystal Cote that gives a real nice
semi-gloss (but very smooth) finish.
Thanks again,
PSC
DonSS3 wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the info. It sounds like I just need to apply a heavier topcoat
> over the decals. I use one of Floquil's Crystal Cote that gives a real nice
> semi-gloss (but very smooth) finish.
I would recommend against Crystal Cote or any solvent-based coating - it
will soften or melt when washed with Turpenoid ( as will Testor's
Dullcoat - Oh, the horror !!!)
Clear coat with a WATER-BASED ACRYLIC ONLY - Future, Polly Scale,
Aeromaster, Pactra, etc, and let it cure !! I've tried Crystal Cote and
washed, and to quote John Candy, "It blowed up good !".
Pete Chalmers
Tim and Deb Hogan
First thing try using more paint in wash,also try to find better quality
mineral spirits. T Hogan
Scott Patten wrote in message <354f6...@news1.ibm.net>...
>I did my first wash last night. I thought I did everything you all told
me.
>I coated the model in Future. Used artist oil paint (Raw Umber) mixed with
with
looked
layer
>
>
>