Aerographics balsa/tissue flyable Swordfish?
John Halliwell
Aerographics balsa and tissue Swordfish (really a flying model)?
I just bought it out of interest mainly as a large scale model (26" span
which my maths equates roughly to 1/21). The balsa/tissue seemed
appropriate for the Stringbag in particular. It is intended to fly on
rubber power, although I'm not sure exactly what I'll do with it.
I'm thinking along a number of lines:
1) Build it just as a balsa skeleton
2) Build it as a static model (probably needs lots of detail)
3) Build it as flying model
If anybody has built and flown one, I'd be interested knowing if it
flies well enough to justify going down this road. As a static model
it's never going to be 'true scale' (always having that 'freeflight'
type look to).
I built a balsa/tissue free flight plane before (didn't fly too well!),
but after opening the box, just a few bits of wood, plans and a few
other bits and pieces was a bit of a shock to the system!
--
John
RC Boater
I haven't built that kit, but I've had my eye on it for a while. (I hope
you get some good responses!)
Over on Yahoo, there's a group called "Free Flight Cook Up" (FFCU). It is a
group of stick and tissue builders, mostly scale, who share tips and
techniques, and in theory we sometimes build the same model together.
Cookups are loosely organized to run run every It is a low-key group,
interested in building for fun. Some of the modelers there are both FF and
plastic builders (myself included)
You can find out how to sign up at Yahoo.com- just follow the groups link.
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
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Francis Marion
Most of these models, if built really lightly, no cute details added, this
includes no painting, will make a semi-controlled glide downward.
There are plenty of non scale balsa models that are built spicifically for
flying but they don't look like anything your likely to see at any airports
that I'm fimiliar with.
I generally build these as static display with half the skeleton showing and
half covered with Japan Silk Tissue. Detail out the covered half, leave the
uncovered half................ uncovered!
Good luck,
F Marion
RC Boater
tissue kits from Guillows, Sterling, etc.
This makes your observation pretty accurate. Guillows kits, for example are
generally very over-engineered, with too much structure to make a good
flying model. Built stock from the box, most Guillows and Sterling scale
models will be too heavy to fly well as a rubber powered free flight model.
Weight is the enemy of good flight performance, and these kits have a lot of
it. Too much structure, heavy plastic detail parts, and very heavy balsa
all add up!
Don' take this as a slam against these kits-- Guillows kits make nice
display models, and they can be converted to decent control line flyers.
They are also enjoyable to build. They are just designed to emphasize scale
appearance and ease of construction over flight performance. Guillows.
Sterling, etc. kits usually have die cut parts, with plastic pieces for the
detail parts, and the larger ones are designed to be converted to engine
power (for Control line flying) fairly easily.
There are many fine looking FF scale models from other companies (generally
smaller firms) that are also good flyers.
I am currently building a DPC 16" span Sopwith Triplane. It is a very nice
kit, with laser-cut parts. The kit has a much lighter structure, and it is
built with lightweight balsa. DPC kits have a good reputation as being
decent fliers. Other scale kits with similar reps as good fliers include
Golden Age Reproductions, Diels, and Dumas. I don't have any first hand
knowledge of the Aerographics kits, but I have heard that they are also
good, flyable kits. Keep in mind that a lot of these smaller firms' kits
are not precut, and include printwood. (A sheet of balsa with the parts
printed on it, and you have to cut each pice out.) Also, these lighter kits
typically have fewer detail parts, requiring the builder to scratchbuild
details out of balsa and other lightweight materials. Also, these kits
generally will need some beefing up before they can take the stresses of
motor-powered flight.
-Bill
"Francis Marion" <anthony....@comcast.net> wrote in message
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Don Stauffer
activity. If prototype is metal covered, one can cover with card stock
or sheet styrene. If fabric covered, as John writes, the results are
very nice. You need to do a lot of detailing, but the scales are large,
calling for lots of such detailing.
Guillows kits also make a nice build this way. Lots of neat subjects,
including multi-engine. One generally needs to find replacement resin
engines for the radials, since so much of the engine shows, but in the
right scale there are lots of engines available.
--
Don Stauffer in Minnesota
stau...@usfamily.net
webpage- http://www.usfamily.net/web/stauffer
John Halliwell
ve.earthlink.net> writes
> Keep in mind that a lot of these smaller firms' kits
>are not precut, and include printwood. (A sheet of balsa with the parts
>printed on it, and you have to cut each pice out.) Also, these lighter kits
>typically have fewer detail parts, requiring the builder to scratchbuild
>details out of balsa and other lightweight materials. Also, these kits
>generally will need some beefing up before they can take the stresses of
>motor-powered flight.
Yes, this kit contains printed but not cut parts along with strip balsa
and some un-printed balsa sheet (it's use yet to be identified). It
includes vac formed wheels and prop spinner and an overscale (flying
prop), if anybody knows of a scalish three blade prop for display I'd be
grateful.
--
John
Voigt Lander
Any one tried the "Easy Built Models" brand of rubber powered models?
I think they are only sold mail order, not over the counter...
$10-$20us generally
http://www.easybuiltmodels.com/
They are generally cheaper than the Gullows brand, so I wonder how
good they are?
I'm considering giving one as a stocking stuffer at Xmas...
Also if you are going to fly it, I take it you would need to 'dope'
the tissue to draw it up tight and make air tight... what would one
use for that???
Modeling shops are somewhat scarce in my area....
~Voigt
Don Stauffer <stau...@usfamily.net> wrote in message news:<3F3CF175...@usfamily.net>...
Don Stauffer
Guillows. The Guillows models are heavy and loaded with plastic
detailing, so they were never intended to be good flyers. The EB models
are lighter and less detailed, and are reasonable flyers, but you need
to do more work to make them a good exhibition model. Certainly not
impossible, just a bit more work. About the only thing you need to do
on Guillows models is to replace engine on radial engined planes, and do
minor cleaning up and altering of vacuformed cowlings and fairings.
AND, of course, replace tissue with card or plastic on metal surfaces
for which no vacuform pieces provided. You will need to do a bit more
on EB models.
On the other hand, if you are after flying models, the EB models are far
superior.
--
John Halliwell
Lander <voig...@netscape.net> writes
>Also if you are going to fly it, I take it you would need to 'dope'
>the tissue to draw it up tight and make air tight... what would one
>use for that???
Yes, you'd have to do something like that. I was planning to use good
old fashioned 'dope' (assuming it is still available and hasn't been
banned).
The instructions recommend clear dope with colour from Humbrol enamels,
preferably sprayed.
--
John
Don Stauffer
nitrate, others don't. It is used for rubber and electric, since it is
not 'hot' fuel proof.
--
Voigt Lander
in a role of tin foil and is procured from a dubious looking character
in the last washroom stall of a dingy bar after 11pm) :-) Not that I
know anything about these matters of course..
Is it some kind of laquor (sic) ???
~V
John Halliwell <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<NYYTOFAegpP$Ew...@photopia.demon.co.uk>...
John Halliwell
>in a role of tin foil and is procured from a dubious looking character
>in the last washroom stall of a dingy bar after 11pm) :-) Not that I
>know anything about these matters of course..
>
>Is it some kind of laquor (sic) ???
Dunno exactly, to me it's just liquid stuff that shrinks, seals and
glues tissue to the balsa frame. Others probably know a lot more about
it than me, I just bought some of the stuff years ago from a model shop
(asking for 'dope').
--
John
William H. Shuey
>
> SO what exactly is dope (besides a herbal product-extract that comes
> in a role of tin foil and is procured from a dubious looking character
> in the last washroom stall of a dingy bar after 11pm) :-) Not that I
> know anything about these matters of course..
>
> Is it some kind of laquor (sic) ???
>
Testor's "Dope" was a form of lacquer used by modellers more years ago
than those of us who remember it care to admit. I've still got a box
full of the small bottles that I acquired when a small local hobby shop
folded many years ago. It was used on Balsa wood "solid" models and on
the stick and tissue paper flying models as well.
The tissue paper was glued to the flying model frame with clear Dope,
and then the tissue paper was sprayed with water to cause it to shrink.
After it was dry, a coat of clear or colored Dope gave it some extra
strength and moisture resistance. You didn't get too elaborate with the
colored Dope because more coats added weight.
Bill Shuey
RC Boater
covering/finishing method was:
1.Put a coat of full strength clear dope on the wood structure, everywhere
the covering would later be touching. Let dry.
2. Apply the tissue using dope thinned 50% with thinner. Let dry.
3. Use a fine water mist to moisten the tissue. When it dries, the tissue
would shrink tight.
4. Seal the tissue with several coats of the 50% clear dope.
5. Use colored dope sparingly-- it adds a lot of weight.
I've recently returned to stick and tissue modeling, thanks in large part to
the Yahoo groups "Free Flight Cookup" and "Guillowsbuilders". Last winter,
I built my first stick and tissue model (Guillows Fairchild F-24), and I
tried th "new" techniques that folks are using these days:
1. Use better quality tissue. There are two types of tissue available-
doemestic(US) and Japanese tissue. Domestic tissue is inexpensive and
available in lots of colors. It is also heavier, and has very little
strength when wet, which can be a problem when covering and shrinking.
Serious free flight modelers looking for maximum flight times use Japanese
tissue. (You can get it in the US from Peck-Polymers, and other FF
suppliers.)
2. Apply the tissue using a glue stick. (Elmer's, etc., found in the
school supplies section.)
3. Shrink the tissue with a fine water mist. (Some folks use rubbing
alcohol to lessen the shrink, some pre-shrink the tissue before applying,
and then shrink it a second time on the model, to protect against warping
delicate structures.)
4. Seal the tissue with Krylon clear spray paint. Krylon does not have the
shrinking power of dope, so you're less likely to overshrink the tissue and
introduce warps.
5. For color, airbrush with hobby acrylics. Use sparingly, as color coats
will add weight.
I've found that the new techniques work as well or better thant the old, and
are a LOT less nasty in terms of fumes and odors.
If you're looking for more info about this, I strongly recommend joining one
(or more) of the yahoo groups....
-Bill
-- Check out my USCG Model Kit list at
http://home.earthlink.net/~billkaja/kitlist.htm
"John Halliwell" <jo...@photopia.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
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Don Stauffer
similar. Banana liquid (amyl acetate?) is also very similar, generally
hard to find and available only as clear. BL used by some for covering,
and for initial coat after covering, then dope used.
--
Don Stauffer
covering. One can use full size aircraft dope on models. I used to buy
dope thinner at airport 'cause I used so much of it and it was much
cheaper by gallon at airport.
Testors was one major brand, Aero Gloss was another. I think finally
Testors bought Aerogloss. Sig still sells their own brand of dope.
--
e
>
>> SO what exactly is dope
>
>The original dope was cellulose dissolved in acetone or in some similar
>solvent.
>HIGLY FLAMMABLE. Really. I'm NOT kidding.
>
one pint of dope with a cherry bomb taped to it could clear
almost a quarter acre of weeds. an dlooked really awesome at
night.
bawoosh!