Need Hints/Tips/Help on Airbrushing...
Edward Hale
Hi... I've been an avid WWII plane model builder for many years
and, until recently (like until today) have always brush-painted my
models... I've always heard airbrushing is the way to go, and have
always liked the smooth airbrush look.
Well, after putting it of for years, I finally went out and bought a
$55 single-action airbrush, thinking it would be a good beginner
airbrush until I get the "finger dexterity" and a general feel for
airbrushing before moving up to a dual-action airbrush.
I'm basically looking for any words of wisdom from anybody who knows
how to airbrush. My first attempt, as expected, was a disaster, but I
never liked Me-262's much, anyway...
Thanks,
- Ed
John Beaderstadt
Edward Hale wrote:
>
> I'm basically looking for any words of wisdom from anybody who knows
> how to airbrush. My first attempt, as expected, was a disaster, but I
> never liked Me-262's much, anyway...
I don't know how "wise" this will be but, basically, just slam together
a couple of throwaway models and practice. My own practice model was/is
the Testors Area 51 UFO: lots of broad, flat space to practice with, and
no emotional involvement with the subject matter, whatsoever. I've used
it so much, now, that it looks downright psychedelic.
You're going to read an awful lot about which paint is best. I'm happy
with the Modelmaster water-based acrylic. One *big* advantage is that
you can keep a bowl of water nearby and throw in used brush tips and
empty paint jars and other items, and leave them for an indefinite
period until you're ready to clean them. My wife gave me a tupperware
bowl with lid for this purpose, and because of work commitments I
recently had to leave used implements in the sealed bowl for several
months before I could get to them; they cleaned right up, no problem.
Try doing *that* with enamel or laquer!
Thinning: Again, experiment. I've been using a 1:6 mixture (one
eyedropper of water, six of paint). However, clear matte is quite a bit
thicker and takes at least a 2:6 dilution; 1:6 leaves a sort of "pebbly"
finish that might be appropriate to some models (but not the kind I
build).
Future: I've become a Future floor polish fan. Used in place of clear
gloss, which suffers from the same thinning problems as clear matte, you
don't have to thin it at all. It provides a very hard, perfectly smooth
finish which is excellent for applying decals and protecting the paint
underneath. It dries in 30 minutes and can then be covered by another
coat of either more Future, or clear flat as desired.
Paint cups: Throw them away, unless self-flaggelation is your bag. I
hate the little suckers. Extra paint bottles are cheap; the paint can be
mixed directly in the bottle (avoiding at least one possible occasion
for spillage), and the siphon top can be easily replaced with the
regular screw-on cap. Again, I've saved thinned paint this way for
months with no apparent deterioration.
Hope this helps.
--
"The fortunate man knows how much he can safely leave to chance."
-- Lady Barbara Hornblower
George Holt
> I'm basically looking for any words of wisdom from anybody who knows
> how to airbrush. My first attempt, as expected, was a disaster, but I
> never liked Me-262's much, anyway...
>
> Thanks,
> - Ed
How so a disaster? Too much paint, too little paint, no paint, runny
paint, dry paint, paint on the walls none on the model? If you are more
specific people can give you specific help. In the meantime some
generalities.
Paint:
You can use any type of paint in an airbrush provided the pigment is
ground fine enough and the paint is diluted sufficiently. This includes
virtually all modelmaking acrylics and enamels, water colours, gouache,
and a lot of automobile finishes (although these can attack the plastic on
your model). Most paint needs thining (diluting) before airbrushing. You
need to use the correct thinner for your paint, basically this is white
spirit for oil based enamels and water for acrylics and water colours.
Haunt the group long enough and you'll find other things to thin your
paint with like alcohol mixes or windscreen washer for acrylics etc. (Im a
Humbrol enamel guy at heart and I use Hunbrol thinner or white spirit) If
the paint manufacturer makes a thinner for your paint use that initially.
Having decided on paint and thinner you'll need some experiment for a good
mix. The standard rule of thumb is to thin the paint until it has the
consistency of milk, this is a good place to start with any paint, acrylic
or enamel. The amount of thinners you use will depend on the make of
paint, sometimes varying from colour to colour even jar to jar, but this
milk rule will get you started.
Air:
Initially you may start with cans of propellant. These are fine but will
prove expensive in the long term. They are also subject to some problems,
they run out :-), as you lower the pressure the cans cool and the pressure
lowers ..., and if you shake or invert them you can let out a stream of
ice cold liquid propellant (instant frostbite). In the long term a
compressor is useful. Its a bit of an expense initially but once purchased
you'll only go back to propellant in an emergency. The compressor doesn't
need to be very powerful, airbrushing for modelling only needs between 10
and 25 psi (pounds per square inch) and the throughput (the CFM, cubic
feet a minute, figure) is quite low. A resevoir tank is useful and a
regulator essential. Depending on the type of compressor you may also need
an oil and/or water trap. Again haunt the group and you'll find all sorts
of info on adapting scuba tanks and purchasing CO2 and compressed air
tanks as substitues for compressors. The important thing is to have a
cheap, constant pressure supply of water and oil free air (or other
propellant).
Cleaning:
You need to keep your airbrush spotlessly clean. Dried up paint can gum up
the works and block all the fine holes the paint passes through. Minimally
you'll need to spray thinner through your airbrush between colours and if
you're putting the airbrush down for any length of time you'll need to do
a clean up involving some degree of dismantling.
Technique:
Airbrushing is a skill, virtually anyone can learn it but it takes some
practice at first. Get a feel for your airbrush on scrap paper first, I'd
recommend using gouache from an art store (it is opaque water colour, it
covers well, dilutes with water and is easy to clean). Practice getting an
even finish by using long strokes and moving your arm from the shoulder
rather than the wrist. How close you have to be to the work depends on the
paint, its thickness, the compressor pressure etc., try and get a feel for
this. When the paint goes on it should be wet enough to be shiny but not
run and it should dry fairly quickly. You should use several light passes
rather than one heavy one.
G
George Holt, Deputy Head of Photography
Imperial Cancer Research Fund, London, UK
ho...@icrf.icnet.uk
georg...@cableinet.co.uk
http://wkweb4.cableinet.co.uk/george.holt/holtweb/index.html
Don Stauffer
Edward Hale wrote:
>
> Hi... I've been an avid WWII plane model builder for many years
> and, until recently (like until today) have always brush-painted my
> models... I've always heard airbrushing is the way to go, and have
> always liked the smooth airbrush look.
> Well, after putting it of for years, I finally went out and bought a
> $55 single-action airbrush, thinking it would be a good beginner
> airbrush until I get the "finger dexterity" and a general feel for
> airbrushing before moving up to a dual-action airbrush.
> how to airbrush. My first attempt, as expected, was a disaster, but I
> never liked Me-262's much, anyway...
>
> Thanks,
> - Ed
Three words- practice, practice, practice.
--
Don Stauffer in Minneapolis
home web site- http://home1.gte.net/stauffer/
home email- stau...@gte.net
work email- stau...@htc.honeywell.com
F. X. Kranick, Jr.
Don Stauffer wrote:
(snip)
>
> Three words- practice, practice, practice.
Concise for an answer, Don's advice is actually the best thing you
can do to get better at airbrushing. A few hours shooting different
types of paints can have a great benefit on your techniques. It's not
tough, just a skill you have to experience to experience, you know?
Books are great and offer good info but the best help is on-the-job
training. Best of luck.
--
Frank
IPMS 20352
"I'm a real boy!"
- Pinocchio
*****************************
Frank Kranick
CAD Drafter/CAFM Administrator
University of Scranton
Scranton, PA
kran...@lion.uofs.edu
(717) 941-6267 - voice
(717) 941-6220 - facsimile
A.J. Madison
Edward Hale wrote:
> Hi... I've been an avid WWII plane model builder for many years
> and, until recently (like until today) have always brush-painted my
> models... I've always heard airbrushing is the way to go, and have
> always liked the smooth airbrush look.
> Well, after putting it of for years, I finally went out and bought a
> $55 single-action airbrush, thinking it would be a good beginner
> airbrush until I get the "finger dexterity" and a general feel for
> airbrushing before moving up to a dual-action airbrush.
> I'm basically looking for any words of wisdom from anybody who knows
> how to airbrush. My first attempt, as expected, was a disaster, but I
> never liked Me-262's much, anyway...
there's another posting that covers the technique in more detail, but here
is my short list of do's and don'ts.
o Never shoot straight from the bottle, always thin as appropriate. You
probably kept reading in FSM about shooting straight from the bottle for
this model or that. That's for experts. The only exception to this rule,
apparently, is Gunze Sangyo which is formulated for shooting straight from
the bottle, but I've never used Gunze, so I can't say.
o Shoot with between 10 and 25 PSI. Model Master recommends 20 psi. My
badger hobby compressor, unregulated produced 40 psi. I had to buy a
regulator and gauge before I got reasonable results from my airbrush. If
your pressure source is canned air, then take a break between long shooting
sessions to bring the pressure back to snuff. Canned air is a b*tch to use
for large coverage, as your shot gets longer, the can gets colder, and the
pressure drops off, and then your air supply is making your paint cold, so
between the drop in pressure, drop in volume, and chilled paint. Well you
get the idea. (Some guys recommend a warm water bath to slow the
canned-air drop in temp/pressure, but it only works so long, so far. . .)
o Mask as much as possible (as a beginner). For a feathered edge, use
paper or light cardboard masks that are held off the model by little rolled
up bits of tape.
o When masking with tape, seal your tape. Apply your "masking" tape, and
seal the edge with your fingertip. Then shoot the edges of the mask with
the same color under the tape. Allow that coat to try. Clean your
airbrush and prepare the second/contrast color. Shoot that color over your
sealed mask. Allow that paint a couple of minutes to dry, but BEFORE it
dries completely, pull the tape. That minimizes chipping.
Scott Ishiyama
George Holt <ho...@icrf.icnet.uk> wrote:
> Air:
> A resevoir tank is useful and a
> regulator essential. Depending on the type of compressor you may also need
> an oil and/or water trap. Again haunt the group and you'll find all sorts
> of info on adapting scuba tanks and purchasing CO2 and compressed air
> tanks as substitues for compressors. The important thing is to have a
> cheap, constant pressure supply of water and oil free air (or other
> propellant).
I'm just starting back into modelling again and have been soaking up the
tips here on r.m.s for the past few months. There have been a lot of
suggestions for inexpensive air supplies, but here's one I haven't seen
discussed. I was considering a recent suggestion to pick up a cheap 7
gal. tank, regulator, & moisture filter, & simply fill it at a service
station as needed. Then I remembered I have a spare propane tank from a
barbecue grill sitting around. Have you (or anyone else here) heard of
someone successfully converting such a tank for use as an air source?
Assuming the tank has enough capacity & the propane can be bled off, are
there regulators & traps that would fit this thing? Since the
suggestions range from 10-25 psi for airbrushing, I don't think it'll be
pushing the tank past its limits. Anyone give this a try & mind sharing
your experiences? Thanks.
--
Aloha,
Scott
Frank Tauss
Scott,
I don't know what it's going to cost to convert a propane tank, but the
7 gal tank I have only cost $30. The regulator, fittings, hoses, etc are
going to cost you the same either way.
My $.02,
Frank
jsh...@ptialaska.net
Obviously you build WW2 German aircraft. If you build any quantity of
airplanes with complicted schemes like the Luftwaffe is so fond of you'll
want to move up to a double action airbrush immediatly. You probably can't
but I would suggest trying to exchange the brush you just bought for a double
action model.
For some reason people insist on continuing the myth that double action
brushes are hard to use and that single action brushes are a good place to
learn. They aren't. Double action airbrushes are not hard, they're just
different. Different enough that you'll have to un-learn most of the habits
you'll develop using the single action brush.
Now to answer your question;
There are several things you should do that apply to just about anything
you're painting and any type of airbrush you're using
1. PRACTICE, a lot. And when you're done practicing, practice some more.
2. Keep you pressure relatively low (I like to spray thinner based paints in
the 12-15psi range).
3. Mix your paint with thinner until it's the consistency of milk. THis means
that it is watery and when you swirl it around in the bottle it leaves a thin
film of color on the sides (just like when you do the same thing with a glass
of milk). I use a paintbrush handle to transfer paint to my color jars. I
count drops as they drip from the handle to mix colors. I usually only
transfer about 20 to 30 drops for any color and then add thinner until it
looks right. If you get it too thin it's easy to add a couple more drops of
paint.
4. Like using a can of spray paint, don't start the paint flow on the model.
Start away from the model, move across the area to be painted and don't stop
the paint flow until you are passed the model. This is the biggest advantage
of a double action airbrush, you can point the brush at the spot you want to
paint, start the airflow, and then slowly add paint to the mix. It's just
like moving the brush across your work without having to move your brush
(great for painting all those spots the Germans are so fond of).
5. Keep your airbrush clean. It is usually fine to run thinner through the
brush between most colors but you should take it apart and clean it
completely when you're done for the evening.
6. Practice
That should be enough to get you started. Just remember that if you talk to
10 modelers about their airbrushing techniques and secret formulas for mixing
paints you'll get 10 different (and often conflicting) answers--even if they
own the exact same equipment.
Jeff
IPMS something or other
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Trevor C Thomas
Scott Ishiyama wrote:
>
> George Holt <ho...@icrf.icnet.uk> wrote:
>
> > Air:
>
> > A resevoir tank is useful and a
> > regulator essential. Depending on the type of compressor you may also need
> > an oil and/or water trap. Again haunt the group and you'll find all sorts
> > of info on adapting scuba tanks and purchasing CO2 and compressed air
> > tanks as substitues for compressors. The important thing is to have a
> > cheap, constant pressure supply of water and oil free air (or other
> > propellant).
>
> tips here on r.m.s for the past few months. There have been a lot of
> suggestions for inexpensive air supplies, but here's one I haven't seen
> discussed. I was considering a recent suggestion to pick up a cheap 7
> gal. tank, regulator, & moisture filter, & simply fill it at a service
> station as needed. Then I remembered I have a spare propane tank from a
> barbecue grill sitting around. Have you (or anyone else here) heard of
> someone successfully converting such a tank for use as an air source?
>
> Assuming the tank has enough capacity & the propane can be bled off, are
> there regulators & traps that would fit this thing? Since the
> suggestions range from 10-25 psi for airbrushing, I don't think it'll be
> pushing the tank past its limits. Anyone give this a try & mind sharing
> your experiences? Thanks.
>
> --
> Aloha,
> Scott
Scott, you can use an LP tank but the problem is the leftover rotten egg
smell, it is VERY hard to get rid of. You can remove the fittings from
the tank and wash it out with hot soapy water repeatedly but then you
must let it air out for quite some time.
The very best source of propellant for airbrushing is a CO2 cylinder,
never a moisture prolem and not much refill cost, this is what I use and
then have a regular air tank as backup in case I run out.
Trev
cbl...@re.ra.rockwell.com
In article <6h3lgi$4ft$1...@gte2.gte.net>,
hardware store, or in a MSC Catalog(you can order the catalog at
www.mscdirect.com). A filling station can provide about 60-100psi which
lasts for about an hour. Also in a pinch if you can't get to the filling
station 2 or 3 minutes with a tire pump can give you enough pressure to last
about 10 min.
Chris Blank
Scott Ishiyama
Trevor C Thomas <tho...@inav.net> wrote:
> Scott, you can use an LP tank but the problem is the leftover rotten egg
> smell, it is VERY hard to get rid of. You can remove the fittings from
> the tank and wash it out with hot soapy water repeatedly but then you
> must let it air out for quite some time.
Hi, Trevor. I won't be painting for awhile so timing isn't an issue,
but I don't think the smell of rotten eggs will do much to enhance the
realism of my Star Fury. Maybe if I was modelling the trash compactors
on the Death Star.... or some really ripe troops for a diorama. <g>
> The very best source of propellant for airbrushing is a CO2 cylinder,
> never a moisture prolem and not much refill cost, this is what I use and
> then have a regular air tank as backup in case I run out.
This is going to be my first time using an airbrush, and from what I've
read moisture may be a particular problem since I live in a humid area
(Hawaii). Is it moisture accumulating in the tank & fittings that I
should be most concerned about, or does an appreciable amount accumulate
in the air hose & brush during use? That is, does CO2 chill the hose &
airbrush the way canned propellant would?
--
Aloha,
Scott
Trevor C Thomas
Scott, the main problem with an air tank is accumlated moisture over the
course of several fillings, if you are careful to use a water trap in
your air hose and you remove the fitting on the tank and empty the
moisture often then it wont be a problem.
Also if the airhose connection is at the top of the tank, it'll be a
long time til you'd have to worry about accumulated water in any case.
CO2 is the best all around because of the LONG life of a 20 lb cylinder
which I have plus the benefit of always dry propellant and no there is
no apreciable cooling of the hose that I have noticed. The only drawback
to the CO2 cylinder is the high pressure 800 PSI which mandates the use
of a good 2 stage regulator, I use one which is a spare for one of our
wire welders.
Trev
Scott Ishiyama
<cbl...@re.ra.rockwell.com> wrote:
> I currently use a similar setup. Most supplies needed can be found at a local
> hardware store, or in a MSC Catalog(you can order the catalog at
> www.mscdirect.com). A filling station can provide about 60-100psi which
> lasts for about an hour. Also in a pinch if you can't get to the filling
> station 2 or 3 minutes with a tire pump can give you enough pressure to last
> about 10 min.
Hi, Chris. Did you have a problem getting the odorant smell out of the
propane tank, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread? If not, what did
you do to get the tank clean & odor-free?
--
Aloha,
Scott
Scott Ishiyama
Trevor C Thomas <tho...@inav.net> wrote:
(Good info on avoiding moisture problems deleted)
> CO2 is the best all around because of the LONG life of a 20 lb cylinder
> which I have plus the benefit of always dry propellant and no there is
> no apreciable cooling of the hose that I have noticed. The only drawback
> to the CO2 cylinder is the high pressure 800 PSI which mandates the use
> of a good 2 stage regulator, I use one which is a spare for one of our
> wire welders.
Yeeps-- 800 psi? Well, maybe I'll try the air tank route first. Until
I know I'm sticking with the hobby I want to start off cheap, and the
CO2 tank + high quality regulator sounds like a bit much to start with.
CO2 sounds like a good long-term solution, though. Thanks for the
advice, Trevor. I appreciate it!
--
Aloha,
Scott
Rommel1234
>UntilI know I'm sticking with the hobby I want to start off cheap, >and the
CO2 tank + high quality regulator sounds like a bit much >to start with.
>CO2 sounds like a good long-term solution, though. Thanks for the
>advice, Trevor. I appreciate it!
>Aloha,
>Scott
If you can work a deal like I did, a CO2 cylinder is cheap. Since soda
fountains (at convenience stores, etc.) and bars (to charge the draft beer
kegs) all use CO2 bottles and high quality regulators, they're pretty common.
I was able to pick up a regulator cheap at a flea market ($5) and was lucky
enough to run into an associate who owned a bar in days past and still had 2
bottles in his shed. I traded a nearly worn out heavy duty drill (he wanted
the Jacobs chuck off of it, mostly) that had been _given_ to me for one of the
bottles. The last obstacle was the fact that the bottle hadn't been pressure
tested in a while, which many suppliers charge to do. While calling around
checking fill prices, I found a supplier that just did a straight swap, a full
for an empty. They didn't care if the bottle needed testing. So for about
thirty bucks, I got a bottle and regulator. Not the most convenient way, but
it just came together without any real effort. Point is: there are a lot of
bottles and regulators out there that are just right , so any one who wants
one, keep your eyes open and be patient and you can do it on the cheap. I love
mine.
James B
Trevor C Thomas
Scott Ishiyama wrote:
Hi Scott,
I think there are also lower pressure CO2 cylinders available, they are
like the ones used to power soft drink or beer dispensers, of course
they dont need a 2 stage regulator and they may even be cheaper. We
usually buy the high pressure type because they last longer on our wire
welding machines.
I dont think you have to buy the cylinder either as we do, at a welding
shop you can rent them and it isnt very expensive. A fill up is $12.00
and thats probably a years worth of spraying for a high pressure bottle,
I'm not sure how long the low pressure ones would last but I think you
could be set up for the cost of a compressor, moisture trap etc.
I'd suggest you go to your local welding supply store and talk to them,
they can fill you in on what you'd need.
Trev
Scott Ishiyama
Rommel1234 <romme...@aol.com> wrote:
James: Great story. That's one thing I like about reading this group;
people never lack for ingenuity! After what you & Trevor suggested, I'm
going to check a local industrial supply shop as it sounds like there
are lower-priced alternatives off-the-shelf. I like bargain shopping,
but frankly wouldn't trust myself to buy a good used regulator, tank,
etc., as I have never used these things. Thanks!
--
Aloha,
Scott
Scott Ishiyama
Trevor C Thomas <tho...@inav.net> wrote:
Hmm. I'd just about written off CO2 for now, but this is more food for
thought. There's an industrial supply store I'm thinking of that sells
welding & other gases, and no doubt the regulators & other doohickeys as
well. I'd never thought about renting the cylinder, but it's probably a
good idea for someone like me. We rent a couple of propane cylinders
for our stove and thus don't have to worry about the pressure testing
that James B (Rommel1234) mentioned-- something I'd never considered.
Thanks again to you & everyone else for all the great advice!
--
Aloha,
Scott
Paolo Pizzi
Trevor C Thomas wrote:
> CO2 is the best all around because of the LONG life of a 20 lb cylinder
> which I have plus the benefit of always dry propellant and no there is
> no apreciable cooling of the hose that I have noticed. The only drawback
> to the CO2 cylinder is the high pressure 800 PSI which mandates the use
> of a good 2 stage regulator, I use one which is a spare for one of our
> wire welders.
Well, actually there's another drawback: if somehow the 800 PSI's
break loose, you end up with a mad torpedo wrecking your house :-)
Paolo Pizzi
http://navismagazine.com
Monthly E-Magazine for Air&Sea enthusiasts and modelers
Largest model gallery in the world
Only $1.66 per issue.
Bonscai
Scott, Just about every angle has been covered in this discussion, but I
wanted to concur with one of the posts suggesting a flea market as a source of
stuff. I was all set to buy a small air tank for about $25, which I thought
was reasonable. Then I got lucky and found a used tank from a compressor/tank
setup. Somebody had fitted it with a manifold and guage and plugged the other
hole with a fitting, so it could be used as a simple tank. I paid $4 for it,
gave it a fresh coat of paint and it looks great. I found a nice regulator
for $1 ( I couldn't believe it either.) . I fill the tank with a car tire
inflator that I had already- the kind that plugs into the cig. lighter. The
system works great. I plan to buy a moisture trap, about $20 at Wal-Mart and
maybe one day I'll get lucky and find a better compressor or just buy a new
one. It would be easier to have AC power rather than the car DC, but it's used
infrequently, the setup works, is safe, and was definitely cheap. I considered
the propane tank route, but feel better with a tank that was manufactured and
intended to withstand air pressure. One thing I learned was that there's alot
of air tool related equipment out there. ( Pawn shops are a good source also)
It can be bought new, but as a previous poster stated, with some patience, luck
and negotiating , air on the cheap is possible for us amateurs. For me it
became a little project that I enjoyed.
Seth, Bon...@aol.com
Chris Blank
Scott Ishiyama wrote in message <6h67ri$37u$1...@gte2.gte.net>...
Sorry but I'm responding from a different location Scott.
The propane tank I had was an older one that had not been used for many
years and did not have a noticable smell. If your propane tank has a
noticable smell, I can't tell you how to get rid of it. An alternative that
will be just as cheap(I have 2 tanks)is an old freon tank. If you know
someone in the HVAC field, or just check with a local auto repair shop that
does air conditioning work, they might give you one. I don't believe they
recycle these and even if they do, they don't exchange them. This tank
works just as well and is lighter than the propane. I wouldn't put much
more than 200 psi in the freon tank because I'm not sure what they are rated
at. If I can be of any other assistance let me know.
Chris Blank
This is also a permanant e-mail address for me.
Scott Ishiyama
Chris Blank <chris...@eurekanet.com> wrote:
> An alternative that
> will be just as cheap(I have 2 tanks)is an old freon tank. If you know
> someone in the HVAC field, or just check with a local auto repair shop that
> does air conditioning work, they might give you one. I don't believe they
> recycle these and even if they do, they don't exchange them. This tank
> works just as well and is lighter than the propane. I wouldn't put much
> more than 200 psi in the freon tank because I'm not sure what they are rated
> at. If I can be of any other assistance let me know.
Hi, Chris. I'm not sure how much of a smell my spare propane tank has.
A friend who moved away left it with us, and I haven't bled the propane
off yet. Part of my asking on the newsgroup was to avoid venting
perfectly good propane if the tank wasn't suitable for air brushing--
and of course, to help explain the venting to my wife. <g>
Given my complete ignorance of what a "good" used tank & accessories
look like, how much to pressurize it, etc., I'm leaning toward either
buying a small air tank or renting a CO2 tank. Initially I was looking
for the rock-bottom "el cheapo" solution, but some of the issues raised
have made me consider the safety issue a bit more. I have a toddler &
would hate to see her injured if she accidentally wanders into my
workspace, knocks over an over-pressurized tank & it ruptures.
Thanks very much for the constructive feedback, Chris, and for the offer
of assistance. I appreciate it very much!
--
Aloha,
Scott
Scott Ishiyama
Bonscai <bon...@aol.com> wrote:
<Neat story about finding an air supply on the cheap deleted for
brevity.>
Hi, Seth. I wish I knew what to look for, but alas I'm a complete
greenhorn w.r.t. air tanks & supplies so I've concluded that rummaging
around for used equipment probably isn't the route for me. The great
replies I've gotten (like yours) make it clear that there are many good
and creative approaches, all of which I've noted & saved. Who knows,
maybe one of these options for a used tank will pop up when I start
questioning the gas dealer or filling station, and I'll be able to add
my own advice! Thanks for the encouragement. <g>
--
Aloha,
Scott
Michael Robinson
You can simply check the rating of a pressure vessel on the neck, it
should be stamped in it (in psi), I don't think a propane tank is
rated very high as these is little need for a great deal of pressure n
a BBQ (someting like only 30-40 psi at the gas regulator I believe
(Note: I am not a BBQ repair-guy or anything, but do Scuba dive)
There will probably also be a lot of other numbers there too (serial
number, mfg date, etc...) Failing this you could simply call the
propane dealer and ask them....
Another idea you may consider is renting a C02 cannister (like for the
mixing of pop / syrup) they are realitively cheap to rent and hold
quite a bit of pressure, from what I understand they will last the
average modeller 1-2 years + with average - moderate ammouns of
airbrushing...
Best of luck...
On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 22:56:24 -1000, sco...@gte.net (Scott Ishiyama)
wrote:
Michael Robinson ICQ# 8252934
My Personal ICQ World Wider Pager is located at:
http://wwp.mirabilis.com/8252934
Ontario - CANADA
mailto:robi...@niagara.com
Chris Blank
Scott Ishiyama wrote in message <6hcdtk$g8c$1...@gte1.gte.net>...
I understand the concern over safety. The freon tank has a higher pressure
rating than the propane tank. Almost all tanks I have(unless from a propane
exchange dealer) have a pressure relief built in the valve stem, this
includes the freon. I use both and have never set off the relief valves(I
knock mine over all the time). On the other hand a cheap 20 gallon tank is
usually advertised at Hills, K-Mart, Wal-Mart, and Quality Farm and Fleet
for around $20. These are extremely adaptable to what you want do and
designed for compressed air storage(they'll also last longer than the
propane and freon tanks). This may be the route to go.
Chris Blank
Joe Reid
I was at my local welding supply shop Friday and was quoted a price of
about $250 for a tank with regulator (tank size was said to be 160, is
the lbs, or gallons of gas?) The tank is about 6-8 inches in diameter,
and about 4-4.5 feet tall. The way that shop does busienss is when you
empty it you take it back and they trade you for a new one. They have
all returned tanks sanded and re-painted if necessary, recertified,
and filled. Pretty good deal, basically you always have a recently
rectified tank at home. And nitrogen does not cost any more than CO2,
and it drier too.
I'll be heading back in a few weeks to get mine.
--
Joe Reid
jr...@vnet.net
Tactical Solaris Systems Engineering and Administration
Carlos Farias
Howdy from Texas:
The "160" means POUNDS! That's 160lbs the tank will weigh when filled
(and tipping over). That's alot to lug around. Try a 50lbs bottle,
it's the same diameter, but 2-1/2 to 3 feet in height and can be moved
around somewhat. A 50lbs bottle will last about a year, so there is no
real worry about this smaller bottle running out prematurely.
A CO2-system is the way to go. Mine has been working flawlessly for
2-1/2 years and I've only re-filled it once.
Happy Modeling!!!
Carlos Farias
IPMS 35500
Austin Model Cars
Joseph
Joe-
160 refers to the number of cubic feet of gas compressed into the
cylinder.
Consider this- a 5 lb. CO2 cylinder is much smaller and holds 40 cf of
gas. (CO2 liquifies under pressure and a small amount of liquid makes a
lot of gas.) Your big N2 tank is going to be filled to over 2200 PSI.
VERY dangerous if you have no experience working around CGCs (compressed
gas cylinders). The cylinder MUST be firmly secured at all times when
its cap is off. Be VERY careful moving it around.
I urge you to reconsider and go CO2. The regulators are (should be)
the same price, and N2 is no "drier" than CO2- they are both devoid of
moisture.
Joseph
Jerry Gardner
In article <3537EE63...@earthlink.net>, timee...@earthlink.net
says...
> Well, actually there's another drawback: if somehow the 800 PSI's
> break loose, you end up with a mad torpedo wrecking your house :-)
That's why you're supposed to chain the cylinder to a solid object, such
as a workbench or wall.
--
Jerry Gardner | Bill Clinton has all the steely resolve of
| a kamikaze pilot on his 37th mission.