"Miss Ashley II" destroyed
Skynight24
Roomstore and Levits Furniture chains was killed during the Saturday Gold Race
in his highly modified "Miss Ashley II". This aircraft had a new build P-51
fuselage with Learjet wings and tailplanes and a Griffon engine turning
contra-rotating props. I was told the aircraft came apart during the race.
Anyone have any further information?
Drewe Manton
>>Lemon Valley residents scrambled to safety Saturday afternoon when a
World War II-era fighter plane competing in the National Championship
Air Races north of Reno came apart, showering debris across a
residential neighborhood.
Veteran pilot Gary Levitz, 61, was killed when his highly modified
P-51 Mustang plane disintegrated as eight of the big racers began
their initial turn in the final race of the day.
No other pilots were hurt in the incident, and miraculously only two
minor injuries were reported on the ground.
"The nose buckled in and the right wing came off and went through the
tail section," said Mark Scheidecker, an airline transport pilot from
Corrales, N.M., who witnessed the crash through a telephoto lens while
taking pictures for the Aviator's Journal. "The whole plane exploded
like someone popping a balloon.''
Ten-year-old Jeremy Chatman was in his back yard on Ramsey Way,
playing with a folded-paper airplane, when he looked up and saw the
airplane roll onto its side, its wings vertical to the ground. The
plane, barely flying at rooftop level, was headed right for Chatman as
he sprinted toward his house.
"I saw an explosion in the air," he said. "Then I saw this big old
piece hit the trailer."
He herded 4-year-old brother Ivan and friend Isabelle , 5, into the
house as the cockpit and Levitz crashed into a motor home behind them.
A piece of debris or shrapnel hit Chatman in the left knee as he
reached the patio, he said.
"We all ran inside screaming and we woke (our mother, Fabiola) up,"
the fifth-grader said.
Fabiola Chatman said flying debris punched several fist-sized holes
into her home and broke two windows. But after seeing the damage to
the green motor home in the back yard, her primary concern wasn't the
house.
"My first thought was, `Thank God the kids weren't taken out by the
plane,' " she said.
The cockpit and pilot landed in Chatman's back yard, and the remains
of the fuselage littered her property. Engine parts severed a power
pole, cutting power to the neighborhood, and debris destroyed a
bedroom in a home.
The crash scene covered about a quarter-mile.
Police and firefighters scoured the neighborhood looking for remnants
of the plane. They asked residents to check their roofs for any parts.
Robert Downs and wife Shirley were playing cards in their house on
Salman Way when a chunk of engine skidded to a stop just a few feet
from their window.
"We looked around and saw our yard littered with engines parts," said
Robert Downs, who saw another plane crash a block away during last
year's races. "This one was way too close for comfort."
The crash did not involve any other aircraft, according to Reno Air
Races Association Chairman Jack Walther.
A young girl was treated after she was hit on the finger by flying
shrapnel, said Tom Medland, a spokesman for the Washoe County Airport
Authority.
Walther said the dead pilot, whose family once owned the Levitz
furniture chain, was killed instantly. An older son and daughter were
attending the races.
This was the first Unlimited fatality during a race in the 36 years of
the Reno event.
The propeller-driven plane was unique: The craft had a wing from a
Lear jet and a Rolls-Royce racing engine that powered two propellers
on the same hub in opposite directions.
Although the races will continue today as scheduled, the National
Transportation Safety Board, assisted by the Federal Aviation
Administration, is investigating the crash and will be issuing a
report on the cause. Investigation reports often take many months to
complete.
David Price, an Unlimited pilot, saw the accident from the top of a
viewing stand. He said Levitz was rounding Pylon No. 1 on the
racecourse when it looked like he encountered "dirty air" --
turbulence caused by aircraft ahead.
"I try to stay a little bit above the plane ahead to keep out of it,"
he said.
Matt Jackson of Calabasas, Calif. was piloting Rare Bear directly
behind Levitz. He said the plane's "elevator" on its tail section came
off first, "then the wing came off from the G forces."
But Walther said a KOLO-TV cameraman recorded a different story. A
review of the videotape shows a piece of the right wing came off and
knocked off the tail, causing the plane to disintegrate, Walther said.
"Both wings were off before it hit the ground," he said.
Scheidecker said the plane, Miss Ashley II, broke into four pieces at
the Plexiglas cockpit cover, or "canopy."
"She was straight and level and violently pitched down about 20
degrees," Scheidecker said. "Then the aircraft, right at the canopy,
broke in four pieces."
Eyewitness Ken Roark, watching the race from a nearby dry lake bed,
said he saw a wing come off and the tail disappear, then the remaining
cockpit and fuselage angle into the ground.
"It just looked like an arrow going into the ground," Roark said.
With other onlookers, Roark and wife Susan raced to a fire that burned
from a wing and jet fuel near a shed. They also traced the trail of
debris, looking for people injured by the wreckage or signs of the
pilot.
One man running up and down the line of wreckage was yelling, "I can't
find the cockpit. I can't find the cockpit," said Nick McGaffey, a
Lemmon Valley resident who saw just a cloud of dirt after the wreck.
The crash is the second in the Lemmon Valley neighborhood in as many
years. Last year, a pilot died when his plane lost power and crashed
into a yard a block east of Saturday's wreck.
Levitz, of Grand Prairie, Texas, was a veteran pilot flying the last
heat of the day.
"He was a friend I knew and liked a lot," Walther said. "He was very
helpful to us, trying to make this race better."
Walther said he expects Levitz's death will be recognized in some way
at the races today. The Thunderbirds performance was canceled as a
result of the crash. <<
regards
Drewe
Rama Lama Yip Diddley Aye
Temple of the Green Grass
"The stupidity of the action is directly proportional to the number of people
watching you"
Preserve wild life. . . pickle a Mon-key!
Albatrosdv
there at Reno, and he got in trouble for being a bit too close a friend of the
idiot Whittington brothers in the 80s when they got arrested for supplying the
Colombian Cartel with an air force. He was always, however, a nice guy and a
gentleman, two things you can't say about everyone who races up there. In
fact, he sort of started my career as an aviation photographer, because he
would buy prints of my photos of him in his airplanes coming around the pylons.
I know his sister here in LA, and when she discovered I was "the guy who took
all those pictures," we became friends.
Gary Levitz is the kind of guy there are too few of at the Reno Air Races any
more.
Tom Cleaver
mark johnston
watching the planes come around pylon 9, I heard a chorus of "Oh Shit!". In
the time it took me to turn my head to the right (one or two seconds) and
look, all I could see was the horizontal stabilizer and a few other parts
fluttering down and a column of smoke rising off the desert. At first,we
thought there was a collision based on the amount of debris in the air. It
wasn't until we counted the planes coming around on the next lap that we
realized that it was Miss Ashley II.
There are a number of conflicting eyewitness reports on what happened. But
one of the pilots following Gary and a video clip shown on the local news
suggest the following sequence of events: the tail separated from the
aircraft, it pitched up, lost a wing and then completely broke up. My
suspicion is that it may have been caused by control surface flutter.
On Sunday, Gary's crew had vacated the pits and a wreath of flowers were
left in their place. Prior to the introductions for the Unlimited Gold
race, four Mustangs flew a missing man formation in his honor. It was quite
touching. He is going to be missed.
Mark Johnston
mark.j...@mindspring.com
AeroServ
on the demise of MA2 and the extremely unfortunate loss of Gary.
First off, the Reno Gazette wins, hands down, the award for Poor Reporting of
the Decade. They focused on the home owners, there for *two* years, whining
about moving the races.
Secondly, MA2 was a new-build, purpose-built racer. *Not* a modified P-51.
I was at pylon 1 when MA2 broke apart. We heard absolutely *no* noise, sound,
whump, engine surge, airstream noise - nothing. Very peculiar...
From the video, it looked like the aircraft "bunted," which is a sharp nose
down pitch. This cause the failure of the horizontal stab *and* the elevators.
(Matt Jackson, flying Rare Bear right behind MA2, said he saw the elevator come
off, but that is disputed by the video...) At any rate, after the nose pitched
down, the tail came off, the rest of the aircraft pitched up and the wing
failed there.
This whole occurance took about four seconds.
I want to convey my sincere condolences to Gary's family and MA2's crew for
their, and our, great loss. Blue skies forever, Gary.
Scott Germain
GMcrorey
how i saw it and it is something i will never forget....i feel for the family
and i hope gary
has gotten is own set of wings.....
gary mcrorey
DMeriman
David D. Merriman, Jr.
r/c submarines, 'the only way to fly!'
"Barns! Cargrave!... Come back here!!!"
SStohr
More interesting then submarine races I guess...
Steve
KMartin512
>>why do people watch car and airplane races?
>>
>>David D. Merriman, Jr.
>>
>>r/c submarines, 'the only way to fly!'
>More interesting then submarine races I guess...
>
>Steve
>
>
You haven't been to any of the submarine races my girlfriends and I have been
too.
Kevin"sloppy joe face"Martin
Albatrosdv
>
>David D. Merriman, Jr.
>
>
I've been at Reno when friends of mine crashed and died, and yes, there are
sickos who came in hopes they'd see that.
In 1978, when two T-6s went down and both died, and I knew both, one of those
idiots had the bad luck to make a comment about it in my hearing down in the
pits. He got free dental work with a size 9, and hopefully he was never able
to lower his family jewels from his throat and propagate his low-life species.
Tom Cleaver
DMeriman
interesting response. Not far from the caves, are we, Tom?
David D. Merriman, Jr.
r/c submarines, 'the only way to fly!'
"Barns! Cargrave!... Come back here!!!"
Maiesm72
will crash and die he is mistaken.
Since the National Championship Air Races started, thirty-six years ago, this
was the first fatal crash during an unlimited race.
Must be some seriously bored sickos out there.
Tom
AIREXPRES1
I think the r/c subman makes an interesting point. No, not the "reason"
for attending various displays of dangerous sport, but the fact that you have
displayed a such a viscious attiude toward someone you claim to have beaten up.
We dont know if your version of what happened in the pits at Reno did/did not
infact occur . That's not what this is about. Can't even say that such a
fellow, as you mention, doesn't deserve a sound thrashing for making an unkind
joke. What bothers me is that you would feel that we need to hear of your
self confessed ( a little self righteous?) violent behavior. It seems that
your numerous posts, of late, have exhibited an increasing element of
intensity that is a "little over the top".
Normally I like your posts and well rounded display of aeronautica. But
you might sit back and ask yourself if the recent AlbatrosDV man is taking
himself a little too seriously? Please, no flame intended.
As for Gary Levitz, he has proven that old saying I learned as a kid
growing up around the old airplanes at Ried's Hillview Airport in San Jose CA
"There are Old pilots and ther are Bold pilots... however, there no OLD BOLD
pilots". Mr Levitz knew the risks of aircraft operation. He knew the risks of
racing. He knew the risks of racing in an experimental aircraft. It is indeed
a shame that he paid a rather high price for doing what many of us might give
our right arm to do. From the race car crowd I also learned the phrase,
"that's racing".
Charlie
Drewe Manton
(DMeriman) writes:
>Not far from the caves, are we, Tom?
>
And verily, the troll doth poke his head up over the bridge!<G>
An old troll though. . . the usual suspect you could say.
Kurt Laughlin
would gladly beat or even kill someone for joking about something they don't
think should be joked about. Witness the lynch mob going after a guy for
simply saying "That's the ugliest baby I have even seen." People on this
news group literally said they wanted him to die for that remark.
Absolutely fabulous.
I wonder what beaver cleaver would say if somebody burned his house down for
something he wrote in Internet Modeler? Somehow, I don't think it would be:
"Well, I guess I had it coming..."
On the other hand, he probably didn't do anything at Reno (if he ever was
allowed in the pits in the first place), he's only saying what he WISHES he
could've done, in some sort of "Rambo Mitty" fantasy. Loudmouths like him
don't have the stones to stand up violently, nor the brains to stand up
civily.
KL
Kurt Laughlin
Your pal Beaver Cleaver writes this:
"one of those idiots had the bad luck to make a comment about it in my
hearing down in the
pits. He got free dental work with a size 9, and hopefully he was never
able
to lower his family jewels from his throat and propagate his low-life
species."
while Meriman writes this:
"Not far from the caves, are we, Tom?"
And you attack Meriman for being a troll?!?
Do you find ANYTHING wrong with what cleaver described? ANYTHING at all?
You didn't make a condescending post about him, so I guess it must be OK in
your mind. But Meriman quite rightly comments on beaver's Neanderthal
behavior, and you come flying out of the Test Post Crack Den, thinking this
your opportunity to carve up some common enemy to the cheers of The Ole
Gang. You are always making wisecracks. Any problem if somebody caves your
skull in for one of them?
You ought to reconsider your decision: Maybe it was better when you just
plonked everybody and the world went by without waking you up. . .
Dunderhead.
KL
Drewe Manton
Best way I find.
>Your pal Beaver Cleaver writes this:
Where'd the "Beaver" come from?
>And you attack Meriman for being a troll?!?
Absolutely. . .he's like you, rarely says anything to do with modelling (Oh
and before you start, yeah I guess that makes me little different from you as
well. . yawn!), I try to be funny (and occasionally succeed it must be said),
you just use this as a forum for your own vituperative outpourings against
anybody who doesn't match up to your exacting standards for usenet
participation
>Do you find ANYTHING wrong with what cleaver described? ANYTHING at all?
>You didn't make a condescending post about him, so I guess it must be OK in
>your mind.
I find his sentiment heartwarming if not his way of acting upon it.
>But Meriman quite rightly comments on beaver's Neanderthal
>behavior, and you come flying out of the Test Post Crack Den, thinking this
>your opportunity to carve up some common enemy to the cheers of The Ole
>Gang
I never even considered what you call "the ole gang" when I wrote that, and
you can belive that or not, frankly I care not one jot.
>You are always making wisecracks. Any problem if somebody caves your
>skull in for one of them?
I do it to raise laughs, and occasionally (as I said before) succeed. . .
admittedly I don't succeed in raising laughs nearly as often as you succeed in
being annoying and righteous to the point of making me want to puke, but that's
just life. . I'm a poorer comedian than you are a self centred and opinionated
waste of space, but then you appear to have had more practice than me in your
area of expertise.
>You ought to reconsider your decision: Maybe it was better when you just
>plonked everybody and the world went by without waking you up. . .
>
What, and miss the chance for this kind of fun and intellectual discourse? Not
bloody likely!
>Dunderhead.
>
Flattery will get you nowhere sweetie.
Hugs'n'kisses
your "special" friend
Drewe
Ed Arnold
>
> >
> >why do people watch car and airplane races?
> >
> >David D. Merriman, Jr.
> >
> >
> >"Barns! Cargrave!... Come back here!!!"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Steve
Not the "submarine races" that I have attended.
Ed Arnold
DMeriman
It was an 'interesting' reaction to a simple post.
Albatrosdv
>would gladly beat or even kill someone for joking about something they don't
>think should be joked about.
I wasn't talking about someone making an idiotic joke - those you just write
off as having never been civilized. I was talking about a f- - -king *ghoul*
who "got off" on what he saw, and the death was what he had come to see. BTW -
when he tried to make a case of it afterwards, he was told by the rest of the
people in the pits that he had gotten off lightly.
Tom Cleaver
Tom Cleaver
Rama Lama Aye Ara Riter
Keeper of the Sacred Modeling Texts
Temple of the Land of Fruits & Nuts
Internet Modeler
http://www.internetmodeler.com
Visit The Aeronut - see the P-40C & F3F
http://members.aol.com/aerialnut/index.html
Albatrosdv
>growing up around the old airplanes at Ried's Hillview Airport in San Jose CA
>"There are Old pilots and ther are Bold pilots... however, there no OLD BOLD
>pilots". Mr Levitz knew the risks of aircraft operation. He knew the risks
>of
>racing. He knew the risks of racing in an experimental aircraft. It is
>indeed
>a shame that he paid a rather high price for doing what many of us might give
>our right arm to do. From the race car crowd I also learned the phrase,
>"that's racing".
To which I would fully agree. As re-stated a moment ago, my little tale (and
it took all of about 30 seconds to happen in September 1978) was with regard to
the kind of ghoul who *does* go in hopes of seeing a crash.
Tom Cleaver
KMartin512
those kids playing in their back yards were killed when Miss Ashley came
plowing through. Way to go God! Real heads up play! I'm sorry somebody had to
die. But if you had to make a choice, you made the right choice.
Those kids may not grow up to be much of anything in life, let alone rich
airplane owners, of even richer parents, putting their lives on the line
delighting a few thousand spectators. But they will grow up.
Oh, and I'm wondering. With the huge investment these guys make in their race
aircraft, maybe in the area of close to half million dollars or more. Why don't
they fit the things with ejection seats? I may sound dopey, but I really think
it would be on my short list of "must have's". Before you flame me, keep in
mind I'm just a simpleton without a clue, who just happens to like kids more
then rich people.
Chris Bucholtz
"Oh, and I'm wondering. With the huge investment these guys make in their race
aircraft, maybe in the area of close to half million dollars or more. Why don't
they fit the things with ejection seats? I may sound dopey, but I really think
it would be on my short list of "must have's""
Because a bang seat would be too heavy and too big to fit inside an
aircraft of the type used for air racing. Ejection seats weigh on
the order of 200 pounds and require the proper mechanics (how do
you get the canopy out of the way?) and aerodynamics to work as advertised. In
Gary Levitz' case, it would not have mattered a bit,
since the fuselage came apart in mid air and he was likely dead
long before the plane hit the ground.
As for the kids playing nearby... We have yet another case on the
suburbs creeping up to the edges of established airports and areas
of air activity (see the aforementioned Reid Hillview Airport in
San Jose, where developers put houses all around the airport; now
the locals claim the airport is dangerous because of its proximity
to their homes and should be closed!). The wreckage of Miss Ashley II
came down near children because the local board of supervisors
allowed homes to be built there.
I enjoy racing because it allows mechanics and engineers to push
machines to new speeds and gives talented pilots and drivers the
chance to take these machines to their ultimate limits while still
showing that it's a human being that makes the ultimate difference.
I see a lot of acrimony targeted at the pilots of the Reno racers
because some of them are millionaires, but these are millionaires
who love airplanes. I can identify with these guys a lot more than
I can with millionaires who only love adding to their millions, and
should I stumble across a fortune I'd happily sink it into keeping
one of these brutes flying fast and turning left.
--Chris Bucholtz
(Who's flown in this year's third-place Gold entry!)
Matjaz
>those kids playing in their back yards were killed when Miss Ashley came
>plowing through. Way to go God! Real heads up play! I'm sorry somebody had
to
>die. But if you had to make a choice, you made the right choice.
I couldn't agree more. I can sympathize with Mr. Levitz's family and friends
for their loss but nobody here mentioned the innocent people who live there
and are in danger (during the races) of having their families killed and
their homes destroyed by crashing aircraft. People who race (aircraft,
Formula1 or any other types of racing) should be aware that, during a race,
they are pushing their machines and themselves to the limits and they are
always risking being killed or at least injured. It can happen to the best
(like Formula 1 driver M. Schumacher, although he only suffered minor
injuries during his crash this year) but that is the risk they chose.
However, care must be taken that people living nearby such events don't have
to face the same risk.
--
greetings, best wishes and happy modeling from
Matjaz
Slovenia
"Don't eat stuff off the sidewalk
no matter how good it looks "
****** The Cramps*************************
Matjaz
>In 1978, when two T-6s went down and both died, and I knew both, one of
those
>idiots had the bad luck to make a comment about it in my hearing down in
the
>pits. He got free dental work with a size 9, and hopefully he was never
able
>to lower his family jewels from his throat and propagate his low-life
species.
>
I wonder just what exactly did that guy say to make you so mad.
Although I can perfectly understand you were very upset at the moment I
don't approve such behaviour. If I had reacted in such a manner, I would try
to forget it later and certainly wouldn't brag about it.
No hard feelings Tom but that's how I feel about that.
Keep up the good (modeling) work.
Chun325
>Date: Thu, 23 September 1999 04:36 AM EDT
<<alot of good stuff snipped>>
>I see a lot of acrimony targeted at the pilots of the Reno racers
>because some of them are millionaires, but these are millionaires
>who love airplanes. I can identify with these guys a lot more than
>I can with millionaires who only love adding to their millions, and
>should I stumble across a fortune I'd happily sink it into keeping
>one of these brutes flying fast and turning left.
I agree with Chris!
If I had a million dollars, I'd buy a warbird and fly it around the country for
others to enjoy. Even if it meant I had to live in a cardboard box!
HAPPY MODELING, and BASICS FIRST!
Bradley Chun - IPMS #33945
IPMS/Silicon Valley Scale Modelers - 2nd V.P.
Invisible souls exit thru suppressed 9mm and .308 cal holes !
Check out North American Hobbies at:
http://www.astutetech.com/nahobbies/
DMeriman
>>because some of them are millionaires, but these are millionaires
>>who love airplanes. I can identify with these guys a lot more than
>>I can with millionaires who only love adding to their millions, and
>>should I stumble across a fortune I'd happily sink it into keeping
>>one of these brutes flying fast and turning left.
>
If I had a million dollars I would enjoy myself. Anything wrong with that?
HMills16
IF you had a Million, and IF you could get a P-51 for that ;
1. You couldn't fly it for long.
2. You'd need a second MIllion to store and maintain it.
3. You'd have to live in a box.
4. You'd most likely crash it anyway so why bother?
5. Or you could just give it to me and watch me fly it-yeah, that's the way!
Hugh Mills
Greg Fieser
AIREXPRES1 wrote:
> He knew the risks of racing. He knew the risks of racing in an
> experimental aircraft. It is indeed a shame that he paid a rather
> high price for doing what many of us might give our right arm to do....
And the individual who said something rude, inconsiderate and inappropriate
should know the risks of saying something rude, inconsiderate and
inappropriate.
Sounds like he paid the price too. Not condoning the actions of AIREXPRES1,
just saying we are all accountable for our actions (and words).
GregD
--
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
%% %%
%% Reality is for People Who %%
%% Can't Handle Simulation %%
%% %%
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
AeroServ
to face the same risk.>>
I'll argue on a few simple facts.
1. Stead Airport has been there so many years... WAY before houses were. Reno
began in 1964. I'm positive these houses were not there.
2. If the families are truly concerned, then they should go elsewhere during
the times the aircraft are flying.
I just don't have any simpathy for the homeowners. Not one damn bit. They
*knew* what goes on during the races, and I'm SURE they brag to their friends
about how the aircraft go right over their houses. (They don't...)
On the other hand, I also place a high value on human life, and I am glad only
two minor injuries were suffered. It could have been much, much worse.
Scott Germain
Kurt Laughlin
inappropriate
> should know the risks of saying something rude, inconsiderate and
> inappropriate.
> Sounds like he paid the price too. Not condoning the actions of
> just saying we are all accountable for our actions (and words).
Really. The price for rudeness, or better yet, "inappropriate behavior" is
a sound stomping with "new dental work"? What would you consider the
"price" someone should have to pay for being what I consider ugly? Or
having a funny looking hairstyle? Why not break the fingers of the contest
judge for giving you third when you clearly had the best model on the table?
He should know the risks of bad judging, shouldn't he?
Since the loudmouth apparently "had it coming" in your mind, would you have
any problem with the party giving the beating spending 3 to 5 years in
prison, plus maybe the loss of all possessions in a civil judgement? How
about putting a slug in the brain of the judge who would sentence him?
After all, "hizzoner" should realize there might be a price to pay for
sentencing somebody who doesn't want to go to jail.
My, what a wonderful world that would be. . .
KL
William H. Shuey
>
> >From: buch...@aol.com (Chris Bucholtz)
> >Date: Thu, 23 September 1999 04:36 AM EDT
> <<alot of good stuff snipped>>
> >because some of them are millionaires, but these are millionaires
> >who love airplanes. I can identify with these guys a lot more than
> >I can with millionaires who only love adding to their millions, and
> >should I stumble across a fortune I'd happily sink it into keeping
> >one of these brutes flying fast and turning left.
>
>
> If I had a million dollars, I'd buy a warbird and fly it around the country for
> others to enjoy. Even if it meant I had to live in a cardboard box!
>
> HAPPY MODELING, and BASICS FIRST!
> Bradley Chun - IPMS #33945
> IPMS/Silicon Valley Scale Modelers - 2nd V.P.
Brad:
An Uncle of mine summed it up very well many years ago:
They keep telling us money won't buy happiness, But Brother! You
can sure pick your favorite brand of misery".
Nelson Shuey, 1975
William H. Shuey
FWIW This is about the same situation as those fools who retire to Florida and set
up houskeeping in a glorified housetrailer. When a Hurricane comes through and blows
their home away they all scream for the taxpayers to pick things up and buy them a
new home. Why?? If you are dumb enough to set up housekeeping in "Hurricane Alley"
you are responsible for your own actions.
Bill Shuey
Albatrosdv
>>
>>
>> I'll argue on a few simple facts.
>>
>> 1. Stead Airport has been there so many years... WAY before houses were.
>Reno
>> began in 1964. I'm positive these houses were not there.
>>
>> 2. If the families are truly concerned, then they should go elsewhere
>during
>> the times the aircraft are flying.
>>
>> I just don't have any simpathy for the homeowners. Not one damn bit. They
>> *knew* what goes on during the races, and I'm SURE they brag to their
>friends
>> about how the aircraft go right over their houses. (They don't...)
>>
>> On the other hand, I also place a high value on human life, and I am glad
>only
>> two minor injuries were suffered. It could have been much, much worse.
>>
>> Scott Germain
Quite frankly, there should be a requirement that idiots who buy houses near an
airport should have to sign the following statement upon close of escrow on
said house:
"I know there is an airport near this house I am buying, and by signing this I
surrender my rights to complain about said airport in perpetuity."
It's always the idiots who buy houses near the airport and then go (whiners
tone) "oh, those airplanes, they make noise, why can't you just shut it down?"
Of course, the cheap politicians who can have their land-use decisions bought
for a mere $1,000 "campaign contribution" by some scumball developer are in
there, too. Like the idiots who okayed putting an ice cream parlor across the
street from the end of runway 29 at Sacramento Executive Airport and were then
dismayed when an F-86 lost an engine and crashed into it in 1972. I'm sure the
developers and the politicians weren't standing around in there at the time.
Here in LA, we have this idiot "retired sh - t disturber" aka law professor,
Gerald Silver, and his "Homeowners of Encino" giving crap to everyone at Van
Nuys every time somebody flies within a mile of his back yard, the guy is a
royal pain.
The airports were there first.
(Rant mode off)
Tom Cleaver
Jeff J
> "I know there is an airport near this house I am buying, and by signing this I
> surrender my rights to complain about said airport in perpetuity."
>
> It's always the idiots who buy houses near the airport and then go (whiners
> tone) "oh, those airplanes, they make noise, why can't you just shut it down?"
>
> The airports were there first.
>
> (Rant mode off)
>
> Tom Cleaver
Yes! The same thing has happened and/or is happening at El Toro MCAS,
Tustin MCAS, John Wayne in Orange Co. in California and O'Hare is a
constant source of complaint here in Chicagoland even though the people
surrounding it knew full well what they were getting into. Years ago at
El Toro, I remember seeing an F-4 Phantom crashed in a field where a 28
screen theater and shoppping complex now are. A few miles away from
there, I remember looking at an A-4 that had crashed on a empty hillside
where there are now thousands of cookie-cutter tract homes.....the
sprawl closed in and now El Toro is gone for noise and crowding reasons
among several others. Suburbia gets what suburbia wants.....
Jeff
jimmc...@my-deja.com
Of course a bang seat would weigh too much for a P-51 to lug around the
pylons. But a properly designed rocket extraction seat would weigh
little more than the seat it replaces. That would be a welcome
innovation in unlimited air racing.
The problem with ‘modern’ unlimited air racing is that it is nothing of
the sort. The airframes and engines date from the ‘40s and there has
been very little real innovation. Imagine a ‘40s-era race car and
engine meticulously restored and tarted up for next year’s Indy 500. I
cringe every time I read about those airplanes pulling Gs at low
altitude around pylons. Of course they are capable of it but that
isn’t the point. Should airplanes that rare be subjected to such
abuse? I don’t know any owners or pilots but I suspect there is more
ego than a need to race involved here.
I must admit, though, that the airplanes are beautiful and it is
exhilarating to see them at speed. Guess you could say I’m conflicted
on this subject. It would be great to see someone come along with a
good design backed by lots of money and just blow the warbirds away.
That would bring unlimited air racing into the modern era and turn it
into a true sport.
And Tom, while I admire your views on a lot of things, a distasteful
comment by a stranger in a crowd should never be a reason to hit
someone. You’re lucky he didn’t press charges, regardless of the
sentiment of the crowd.
Jim McLaughlin
In article <19990923043639...@ng-fk1.aol.com>,
> I see a lot of acrimony targeted at the pilots of the Reno racers
> because some of them are millionaires, but these are millionaires
> who love airplanes. I can identify with these guys a lot more than
> I can with millionaires who only love adding to their millions, and
> should I stumble across a fortune I'd happily sink it into keeping
> one of these brutes flying fast and turning left.
>
> --Chris Bucholtz
> (Who's flown in this year's third-place Gold entry!)
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Chris Bucholtz
"Like the idiots who okayed putting an ice cream parlor across the
street from the end of runway 29 at Sacramento Executive Airport and were then
dismayed when an F-86 lost an engine and crashed into it in 1972."
That one hits close to home. I was five then, living in Sacramento,
and we went to that Farrell's every Saturday afternoon. If my sister
had awakened from her nap on time, I would have been in there. TINS!
--Chris Bucholtz
Russel Osborne
wrote:
The same thing is going to be happening to Luke AFB here near Phoenix.
Their flight paths are so restricted now that the Air Force is about
ready to give up and leave. Some of the local govt's here that benefit
from the base are talking about trying to buy land around the base to
keep it out of the developers hands, but I seriously doubt if that
will happen, and even if it does it is likely to be too little too
late.
Course the rash of crashes there lately isn't helping matters much.
Fortunately no one has been killed yet(not even much serious injuries)
but with jets impacting on busy roads or going through the fence and
crossing a busy road after the pilot couldn't stop the plane on
landing and ejecting, I don't know how much longer before civilians
casualties occur.
russ
actually being serious for once
GMcrorey
down.
the thing that i remember most was the overwhelming urge that a navy flight
instructor and myself were fighting off. there was a press guy just as happy
as could be because he got photos of the crash as it happened and just knew he
was going to make alot of money. but with total disreguard for the life that
was lost.
i really believe they guy deserved a good beating... but i was not the guy to
do it
as much as i wished i could have..
fly fast and turn left
gary mcrorey
Albatrosdv
>comment by a stranger in a crowd should never be a reason to hit
>someone. You’re lucky he didn’t press charges, regardless of the
>sentiment of the crowd.
That's not quite the way it was, Jim. I knew both of the T-6 pilots, one a
newbie racing for the first time that year (who I knew at air shows in
California for a couple previous years), one a veteran I'd known for about 5
years. You know how the T-6s used to race - with everybody in one big gaggle
and about 1mph diference between #1 and #6 in any given heat - dangerous all
the way around. So, anyway, the new guy pulled way tight going around Pylon 3
of the inner course, went wings-vertical, and pulled a high speed stall-spin.
Fell out of the sky on top of Don, (the vet), striking the airplane with his
wingtip at the fuselage-wing junction of the lower plane. The new guy went
straight in and was killed instantaneously. When Don struck ground, the wing
and fuselage separated. His legs were then traumatically amputated (as in
pulled out of their sockets) since a T-6 has no floor. He came to a stop
halfway to Pylon 4. I was at Pylon 1. You could hear his screams in the pits
like he was two feet away. The chopper got there fast, but it was too late; he
died of blood loss as they flew over the stands.
What specifically, the dork said was "Wow, that was almost as cool as Cape
May." I don't know if you know what "Cape May" is, but it was the worst racing
disaster ever, in 1971, the only time they have had air races on the east coast
since 1949. There were several T-6s involved in one crash, and then again
later that day there were two unlimiteds that collided. There were about three
people killed. You had to see the look on the guy's face as he said that.
This was about 20 minutes after Don had died, and as they were bringing in the
other body.
Tom
Chun325
>Date: Thu, 23 September 1999 03:12 PM EDT
Hugh,
You'd literally fly circles around me in your Loach,
blind-folded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stay safe buddy!
HAPPY MODELING, and BASICS FIRST!
Bradley Chun - IPMS #33945
IPMS/Silicon Valley Scale Modelers - 2nd V.P.
Chun325
>Date: Thu, 23 September 1999 06:51 PM EDT
> An Uncle of mine summed it up very well many years ago:
>
> They keep telling us money won't buy happiness, But Brother! You
>can sure pick your favorite brand of misery".
>
> Nelson Shuey, 1975
Bill,
So true, so true!
AeroServ
pylons. But a properly designed rocket extraction seat would weigh
little more than the seat it replaces. That would be a welcome
innovation in unlimited air racing.>>
Uh... No it wouldn't... Bail-out's in racing are extremely few and far between,
and as somebody else pointed out, not viable at 450+ mph 50 feet off the deck.
Then you have the problem of another racer hitting you.
<< The problem with ‘modern’ unlimited air racing is that it is nothing of
the sort. The airframes and engines date from the ‘40s and there has
been very little real innovation.>>
Now you have let us all know you're about as uninformed as they come about the
unlimiteds. Yeah, they look like Mustangs but they're just look-alikes. And
don't go with the "Cutting up a warbird" argument either. Strega and Dago were
basket cases.
These "1940's" aircraft have been modified to the point where they are no
longer near the original configuration. The engines are a blend of several
technologies, car parts, and new ideas. We have telemetry, special fuels and
racing systems. These aircraft are about as far from 1940 as you can get.
Scott
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
> street from the end of runway 29 at Sacramento Executive Airport and were then
> developers and the politicians weren't standing around in there at the time.
He didn't lose an engine. He didn't know what he was doing and killed people as a
result.
Jeff
Drewe Manton
chu...@aol.com-eatspam (Chun325) writes:
>You'd literally fly circles around me in your Loach,
>blind-folded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd only get *really* worried if Mr Mills is flying those circles one
handed, hanging out the door with a Colt Python in his hand. . . . <G>
regards
Drewe
Rama Lama Yip Diddley Aye
Temple of the Green Grass
"The stupidity of the action is directly proportional to the number of people
watching you"
Preserve wild life. . . pickle a Mon-key!
DMeriman
Well... in that case, Tom, you have all the license you need to beat people up.
I stand corrected.
Feel free from this point on to exact such 'justice' anytime you feel the need.
Your quite a man!
You handle stress well.
I'll be more careful what I say here. You might beat me up.
Dave Pride
purchase property near an airport. For whatever reason the
purchase/development was done willingly. Why should the original
occupant (the airport) be villainized for someone else's stupidity. I
mean other than lining some lawyer's pocket.
This same thing is happening to farmers. Many farms have been in family
hands for generations, but when developers build right up to the farm's
edges, all hell breaks loose. Then the poor farmer cannot harvest late
at night because the noise and lights disturb the newcomers. And he
cannot use certain fertilizers because the smell offends the idiot's
senses. Why should the original occupant pay for others stupidity?
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
Dave Pride wrote:
> The point is that "Doodoo Occurs". Those people were not forced to
> purchase property near an airport. For whatever reason the
> purchase/development was done willingly. Why should the original
> occupant (the airport) be villainized for someone else's stupidity. I
> mean other than lining some lawyer's pocket.
>
> This same thing is happening to farmers. Many farms have been in family
> hands for generations, but when developers build right up to the farm's
> edges, all hell breaks loose. Then the poor farmer cannot harvest late
> at night because the noise and lights disturb the newcomers. And he
> cannot use certain fertilizers because the smell offends the idiot's
> senses. Why should the original occupant pay for others stupidity?
I agree entirely. In Ontario, we now have (or soon will have) the "Right to Farm Act"
which will protect farmers from such nonsense. I think there should be something
similar for airports. Anyone buying a home within X distance of an airport knows it's
there and should have no right to complain about it being there.
A friend who works in an aviation supply store in Toronto told me they sell more than a
few scanners to real estate agents. They use them to find out which runways are active
and take that into account when scheduling appointments to show houses near the
airport. Buyer beware.
Jeff Rankin-Lowe
HMills16
seat in the Spads worked just fine and might have saved a life here. This ship
came apart in flight and a bang seat is the only way out at that altutude,
speed and g force. Perhaps it will come to pass.
Hugh Mills
KCMO
Maiesm72
Long time.
The weight factor has always been the bugaboo.
Perhaps once the 500 mph race record falls the various competitors will have a
new perspective.
In the mean time, I'm stocking up on appropriate 1/72 bang seats.
Tom Young
HowCutNC
To quote someone from another newsgroup:
"If this was a perfect world there would be no humans."
Howard Cutcher
Sanford NC
Kurt Laughlin
Hear, hear. Something for the Neanderthals to think about before they break
someone's jaw.
I'm content with the imperfect version where the lunkheads are jailed and
their families turned into paupers because they can't control their tempers.
KL
tbird88
> "And don't go with the "Cutting up a warbird" argument either. Strega and
Dago were
> basket cases."
to an extent...if it's worth racing, it's worth restoring.
> "These aircraft are about as far from 1940 as you can get."
because of the 'car parts' or the paint job ? I claim ignorance, for I did
not know that they do not use original airframes...
tbird88
AeroServ
one who comes up with a percentage of what makes a warbird? 50% original parts?
Miss Ashley II was not a Mustang. It had a fuselage built from plans from the
Smithsonian. It was modified from original, too.
I'm not trying to argue. It comes down to the people with the $$$. We don't
have it, and we don't own the aircraft, so it's really not up to us.
Race on.
Scott
Michael Luvara
from.The jig has already been used to create 2 other p-51 fuselages, with at least
one for a *stock* p-51. If that's not for preservation, I don't know what is.
Here's what's quoted from their site at: http://www.missashleyii.com/news&facts.htm
"The jig, foundry and tooling that was used to produce the MA2 remains in Texas at
RB
airframes. This tooling has since been used to produce two other fuselages. One
of these
fuselages is being used to restore a stock airplane while the second is the
beginnings of a
rebuilt Red Baron."
Also, the ntsb has posted the *preliminary* report on the crash at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/LAX/99A311.htm
It basically says the tail came off first, the airplane pitched down, and the wing
folded.
-Michael Luvara
TCBURNS
lightweight ejection seat just a year or so ago. The Zvesda SKS-94 Escape
System weighs only 40 pounds, and though it isn't a true zero-zero seat (BTW
The Yankee Extraction System, made right here in Denver by Stanley Aviation,
was the world's first true zero-zero system!), it's advertised as being
effective at altitudes between 33 feet and 18000 feet. It is offered as
optional equipment on the Sukhoi Su-29 and Su-31 aerobatic planes, and Zvesda
claims it can be made available for other applications as well. A snip at $35k!
(Hey, what is your life worth?) If it works even half as well as the seats
the Russians keep demonstrating at the Paris airshow it should be very good
indeed!
BTW - Tom: I read your harrowing account of the T-6 accident at Reno. Frankly,
though you did put yourself in legal jepoardy, and it's unfortunate that you
lost your temper, I think what you did was OK. Call mea philistine, but under
the circumstances, anyone who would make such a tasteless, crass, small-minded,
juvenile, twisted, insensitive, nasty, cruel, tacky, sick, asinine, stupid,
ignorant, thoughtless comment probably was lucky to leave the pits with only a
poke in the nose. I was in attendance at a vintage race in Copper Mountain
years ago when we lost a driver in a tragic accident. I happened to overhear a
couple of jackasses at the scene make similar comments: "Wicked, dude!", said
with obvious relish, was the one I recall. I regret that I didn't say
anything, but several other spectators, as well as a couple of cornerworkers
and drivers, quickly made it clear to them that it would be best if they left
while they could still do so under their own power. I believe the ambulance
which took away the unfortunate driver was offered as an alternative means of
transport.It's sad that there are some people (can I call them that?) who
attend auto races, air races, football games, and perhaps even polo matches in
the desperate hope of getting a glimpse of mayhem, accident, injury, and death.
It sullies these events for those of us who appreciate competition, courage,
risk, endeavour, achievement, and sport.
If this makes me an insensitive, intolerant, knee-jerk barbarian, then just
tell me where I can pick up my Viking helmet, spear, and pelts.
'Nuf said. My $0.02. And that's probably about all it's worth, too.
HowCutNC
Following the Cubs- Cardinals game tonite, WGN News reported yet another
Air Tragedy which occurred today near Chicago.
The Lima Lima ( not sure of spelling) was practicing for an upcoming Air
Show. While flying in the close formation they are noted for, apparently two
planes touched and one dove into the ground, catching fire on impact and
killing the Pilot, Keith J. Evans, age 61, of nearby Wheaton, Illinois.
According to the WGN report, the Planes the Team flies are Modified T-34's
and are painted Bright Yellow with LL on the Vertical Tail Section.
Perhaps someone from the Chicago area can provide more info.
I believe I speak for all on this Group when I say our heartfelt condolences
are extended to the Family of Mr. Evans.
Howard Cutcher
Sanford NC
Stephen
albat...@aol.com (Albatrosdv) wrote:
<snip>
> It's always the idiots who buy houses near the airport and then go
> (whiners
> tone) "oh, those airplanes, they make noise, why can't you just shut it
> down?"
Actually that reminds me of a similar situation here in the UK. There's an
ex-RAF station near the coast where they now have a few gliders and an
aerobatics team who practice at weekends. Heigh-ho, what happens? Someone
builds a load of houses beside the airfield. I read a few letters in the
local paper from people living in those houses who are bitching to the local
council about the aerobatics team flying their prop-driven stunt planes for
a few hours at weekends, mainly over the sea but occasionally they have to
fly over the houses in order to land the planes, which is kind of necessary.
Honestly. The stupid sods in those new houses want to shut down another
airfield (there can't be that many left in the UK these days, they've all
been built over...) and get rid of an aerobatics team who only fly
occasionally. Look at it this way: They get to see the team flying for free
instead of having to go to an airshow to see them. Also they're quiet planes
(I'd hate to see how many complaints the council would get if they were
using jets...) and they're only flown occasionally. So why on earth are they
complaining? Actually, I live under a fairly busy air route and we have
passenger aircraft flying over all the time, along with some private planes
which fly a bit lower. They wouldn't divert an air route if I started
complaining, would they. Also Heathrow airport - everyone's suddennly
figured out that it's the airplanes which have been making all that noise
and they're all howling for restrictions on flying. You wait, in 10 years
time we'll all be grounded because everyone's complaining about the noise...
> Here in LA, we have this idiot "retired sh - t disturber" aka law
> professor,
> Gerald Silver, and his "Homeowners of Encino" giving crap to everyone at
> Van
> Nuys every time somebody flies within a mile of his back yard, the guy is
> a
> royal pain.
One of the main reasons they shut down RAF West Malling (at one time this
place was the biggest and most important post-war RAF airfield in the
country) was that the Maidstone MP lived a mile away from the end of the
runway and had planes taking off and landing over his house. DURH if you
don't like the planes then you should MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE. I think the
defense of our respective countries is more important than a few people
complaining about a bit of noise. Particularly in the 60's, if the defences
hadn't been there then I'm sure they'd have heard some real noise - probably
something along the lines of an atomic explosion or two... Personally I'd
love to live near an active airfield (I live near the ex-RAF West Malling
but unfortunately I was born 20 years too late to see anything flying from
it except gliders...). People in general are too intolerant of noise these
days: In Maidstone, a town a few miles away, the residents have started
complaining about the noise from the church bells being rung on Sunday
mornings!!! If I could swear I would. Ah whatever: I'll be subtle. :) These
type of f*****g b******s should all be f*****g well thrown into a f*****g
mine then they'd hear some Real noise. :) <calming down...>
>
> The airports were there first.
Hear hear. Particularly RAF/USAF airfields. Developers who build houses near
airfields are either asking for the houses to stay empty or want the
airfield shut down - probably so that they can build on that too.
>
> (Rant mode off)
>
> Tom Cleaver
>
-Steve
BTW sorry for the long post. This subject is a bit close to me. :)
--
Stephen Pearson rpea...@argonet.co.uk
Back from Universty for a few months... Kent, England
University E-mail address: cv7...@surrey.ac.uk
"It's a mother beautiful tank!!" - Oddball, "Kelly's Heroes"
inverte...@gmail.com
> I don't want to stir any pots here, but I was at Reno and I have a few comments
> on the demise of MA2 and the extremely unfortunate loss of Gary.
>
> First off, the Reno Gazette wins, hands down, the award for Poor Reporting of
> the Decade. They focused on the home owners, there for *two* years, whining
> about moving the races.
>
> Secondly, MA2 was a new-build, purpose-built racer. *Not* a modified P-51.
>
> I was at pylon 1 when MA2 broke apart. We heard absolutely *no* noise, sound,
> whump, engine surge, airstream noise - nothing. Very peculiar...
>
> From the video, it looked like the aircraft "bunted," which is a sharp nose
> down pitch. This cause the failure of the horizontal stab *and* the elevators.
> (Matt Jackson, flying Rare Bear right behind MA2, said he saw the elevator come
> off, but that is disputed by the video...) At any rate, after the nose pitched
> down, the tail came off, the rest of the aircraft pitched up and the wing
> failed there.
>
> This whole occurance took about four seconds.
>
> I want to convey my sincere condolences to Gary's family and MA2's crew for
> their, and our, great loss. Blue skies forever, Gary.
>
> Scott Germain
I also saw the event. I was watching her as she flew past the Home pylon, then started pulling up to get out of the race, and then I saw the nose like crumble, and it seemed to me like a prop had fractured and tore off, slicing through the side of the aircraft and chopping off the right horizontal stabilizer. From there it nose-dived and broke apart piece by piece. The ntsb has even reported chop marks in the the vertical stab, I believe in the accident report. But I don't think anyone watched the nose like pop right before it all went to hell... I bet he pulled up to get out of the race from either a prop runaway or a vibration he was having.
Hope this can add to the entire conclusion of why this aircraft crashed.