JagdTiger-(Dragon)-how to Paint and other Questions.....
CYBER BORG
Please someone walk me thru painting
this tank. I'd like it to come out as close
to correct as possible. So I need to know
Camouflage colors and correct pattern if
any and also correct interior color. The
instructions say white , but weren't they
some color called "buff" on the inside.
Also - Enamels or Acrylics which is best.
Dumb Questions - # A1 all of them move
slightly what is the best way to get proper
alignment. # B1 this moves , what is best
placement for it and when. How good is the overall accuracy of this kit.
ALL , construction help & tips will be very
appreciated. I would really like this one to come out good. And I've
never worked on individual track links before either.
Please Help ......
Many Thanks in Advance......
......Cyber-Borg........
" RESISTANCE is FUTILE - your life as it has been is OVER from this
time forward --- YOU WILL SERVICE US..."
******* " YOU MAY SPEAK..." *******
WIT & WISDOM by -- *Locutus-of-BORG* from -- "THE BEST of BOTH
WORLDS"
________ " PART ONE " ____________
Hornet
roughly corresponds to the type of 'ambush' pattern used by the Germans. The
reason for this is that the vehicles were painted in the field (using petrol
as thinner) and were done anyway the crew felt would give the best scheme.
Everything got painted over and I mean everything, the crews didn't want
anything shiny on the vehicles at all, however, most modellers prefer to
pick out the tools etc. in metal as this adds some degree of 'relief' to an
otherwise plain model.
I used Xtracolour enamels on mine which worked very well, they market a
range of German armour colours. As for the track links, assemble them on the
unpainted model in two sections, upper and lower using liquid cement, it's
hard to get the correct 'droop' using superglue. remove them when dry and
paint and fit them back on using superglue for the final two connections.
Steve
--
"Find your enemy and shoot him down, everything else is unimportant"
Manfred Freiherr Von Richthofen
'Flights Of Fantasy' Scale Aircraft Modelling.
http://homepages.tesco.net/~hornisse/hanger.html
CYBER BORG <CYBER-...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3483-37E...@newsd-291.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
ASmith5532
>roughly corresponds to the type of 'ambush' pattern used by the Germans.
This is not exactly true.
The damn beast was too big.Plus by the end of the war the germans didn't have
materials to paint that much in camo.
There are references to sebveral very different schemes used. Dark Yellow
(yellow ocrhe) and Olive Green is one common color scheme. There were also some
painted all olive green. Of all the photos i have (mind you I don't have them
all) i have never seen abambush scheme on a Hunting Tiger.
My best suggestions is to check every possible reference on the market. Most of
the camo schemes I have seen have been the 2 color type yellow & green or
yellow & red bown..
As to construction tips the gun platform is the drawbacjk to the kit, It just
wasn't thought out to well. I suggest figuring oyut the angle you want the gun
to be and glue the cradle into place. The inside isn't detailed enough to want
to leave it open,. If you have the after maket insides, then I would suggest
Red oxide primer. According to my references the germans started poainting the
inside of their Tiger IIs this color near the end of the war. And since the
Hunting Tiger came out at the end of the qwar it stands to some reason that
they would've used the red oxide on these as well. Its a good quality kit. I
have one on the Virtual AMPS website. The camo pattern is accurate according to
the reference photos I have. Whuich is Panzer gray base with Dark Yellow and
Red Brown patches. No ambush dots. I got it out of the Schiffer publication on
the Jagdtiger, Strumtiger, and Ferdinand book. I highly recommend this book.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely;
Andy
David Byrden
<19990918153941...@ng-da1.aol.com>...
> If you have the after maket insides, then I would suggest
> Red oxide primer. According to my references the germans started
poainting the
> inside of their Tiger IIs this color near the end of the war.
Yes, but then they stopped. See my
page on panzer interior colours at http://byrden.com/panzers
(the page is down right now because the server crashed)
David
Lafimprov
camouflage regulations in their most recent books, though there were often
aberrations as paint supplies ran out.
There were two Jagdtiger Battalions. The 653rd and the 512th.
The 653rd was organized like a Tiger Battalion (45 vehicles in three companies)
but the 512th had to be organized around 30 guns, due to shortages. The 653rd
was equipped first, in December and January. Ten of the first 11 vehicles built
had the Porsche suspension, and were finished in overall sand (most with
zimmerit), and the 653rd got seven of them. Red-brown and olive green
oversprayed stripes were seen on some vehicles. Then the factory retooled for
the Henschel suspension, and there was additional disruption due to air
attacks, so deliveries didn't resume until December 1944. By that time zimmerit
was discontinued, and vehicles were painted in overall red-brown primer with
bands of the Sand, Olive green and (possibly) red-brown (though this was very
similar to the primer), and primer was allowed to show in some areas as a
camouflage color. At the end of December the regulations again changed to
overall olive green, with bands of sand and red brown. However, the factories
had until March to comply. Both late war schemes were supposed to include small
disruptive spots of contrasting colors on the larger bands of color (the
so-called "ambush scheme"), but photos show this last step was often skipped.
It seems likely that the 653rd vehicles were mostly in the red-primer scheme,
while the 512th vehicles were probably in the olive green scheme. Some of the
512th vehicles were overall olive green with no other colors applied. Panzer
Gray was authorized as a substitute for sand if sand was unavailable, but it
was in even shorter supply, so this seems unlikely.
For reference, see the two hardcover books on the Jagdtiger just published by
Schiffer (particularly Vol. 2), and "The History of the 653rd Schwerer
Panzerjager Abteilung" by Karlheinz Munch published by Fedorowicz in Canada for
dozens of Operational photos.
ASmith5532
I have seen the two JagdTiger books. I want them.
In any of these was there any Hunting Tigers with the ambush scheme. I'll admit
my collection isn't a complete one. But the photos I have don't shown any type
of ambush pattern in use. Just stripe or bush/blotch camo.
Just curious.
Andy
Herbert Ackermans
Hornet <hor...@ic24.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
gnIE3.1622$68.45227@news2-hme0...
> Well, basically you can paint the model anyway you feel so long as it
> roughly corresponds to the type of 'ambush' pattern used by the Germans.
Not. Ambush was not applied to the JagdTiger. I think mainly due to the fact
these beasts were difficult to conceal under trees.
> The
> reason for this is that the vehicles were painted in the field (using
petrol
> as thinner) and were done anyway the crew felt would give the best scheme.
> Everything got painted over and I mean everything, the crews didn't want
> anything shiny on the vehicles at all, however, most modellers prefer to
> pick out the tools etc. in metal as this adds some degree of 'relief' to
an
> otherwise plain model.
Duh... there are a lot of pictures of Tigers being painted where tools have
been stripped off of the vehicle. Do you want your jack to be clogged with
paint? The scissors? Tracks, yes, these were mainly painted in the
camo-paint. But not the tools. Check pictures, you can easily spot the
hammers, scissors, jacks etc.
>
> I used Xtracolour enamels on mine which worked very well, they market a
> range of German armour colours. As for the track links, assemble them on
the
> unpainted model in two sections, upper and lower using liquid cement, it's
> hard to get the correct 'droop' using superglue. remove them when dry and
> paint and fit them back on using superglue for the final two connections.
Or use Modelkasten or Friulmodelismo. A sort of cheat... don't glue 'em at
all, just snap-fit the tracks. The fit is snug enough.
Herbert Ackermans
ASmith5532 <asmit...@aol.com> schreef in berichtnieuws
19990919142130...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
I have seen a lot of JagdTiger pictures, and none so far have had JagdTigers
with Ambush camouflage. As matter of fact, I can only think of 1 picture of
a King Tiger in ambush camouflage and also, none of the Tiger-E in ambush.
There's plenty of Panther in ambush, especially JagdPanther, but Tiger.... I
can honestly say, I have seen only 2 Tiger-variants with ambush, a Tiger-B
and a SturmTiger.
Intriguing... was ambush used primarily on the JagdPanther?
Herbert Ackermans
> >Well, basically you can paint the model anyway you feel so long as it
> >roughly corresponds to the type of 'ambush' pattern used by the Germans.
>
> The damn beast was too big.Plus by the end of the war the germans didn't
have
> materials to paint that much in camo.
Correct. Huge bands of red-oxide with small bands of camo-collor.
> There are references to sebveral very different schemes used. Dark Yellow
> (yellow ocrhe) and Olive Green is one common color scheme. There were also
some
> painted all olive green. Of all the photos i have (mind you I don't have
them
> all) i have never seen abambush scheme on a Hunting Tiger.
Correct, although the most seen scheme is Dunkelgelb and Rotbraun.
> My best suggestions is to check every possible reference on the market.
Most of
> the camo schemes I have seen have been the 2 color type yellow & green
or
> yellow & red bown..
Right.
> As to construction tips the gun platform is the drawbacjk to the kit, It
just
> wasn't thought out to well. I suggest figuring oyut the angle you want the
gun
> to be and glue the cradle into place.
Stuff the breech with milliput, the weight perfectly counterbalances the
barrel, sits at any angle.
> The inside isn't detailed enough to want
> to leave it open,.
There's detail in the JagdTiger kit...?
> If you have the after maket insides, then I would suggest
> Red oxide primer.
Bzzzzzt, not. Elfenbein was reintroduced as crews complained about the
darkness inside. Also, a blue was used for the gunmount.
> According to my references the germans started poainting the
> inside of their Tiger IIs this color near the end of the war. And since
the
> Hunting Tiger came out at the end of the qwar it stands to some reason
that
> they would've used the red oxide on these as well.
The JagdTiger was first produced February 1945, and Jentz states in his
PAnther book that Elfenbein was to again be used on the interior as of 15
februari 1945. Granted this is related to the PAnther G turret, but it seems
likely, this effected all panzers in production.
> Its a good quality kit. I
> have one on the Virtual AMPS website. The camo pattern is accurate
according to
> the reference photos I have. Whuich is Panzer gray base with Dark Yellow
and
> Red Brown patches. No ambush dots. I got it out of the Schiffer
publication on
> the Jagdtiger, Strumtiger, and Ferdinand book. I highly recommend this
book.
Argh... Panzer grey again...
CYBER BORG
I would like to say a very big thank you
to all for your kind help to me with this.
And if anyone has any other construction
tips or hints about this kit , would they please let me know. Also -
how in the world co you put on all those tiny photo
etch -grab handles- or whatever they are
without leaving any glue spots or marks.
Yes , I know that's a dumb question.
But I've done very little PE and nothing
this small. And I'd like this one to Look
as good as possible..........
Thanks again....
anyone who would like to send things
directly to me can do so........
Cyber-Borg.........
Rackrent2
one of the best models I've ever built. With it's photo-etch and link tracks
it builds into a real beauty right out of the box. The fit and details are
great. A common scheme for the Jagdtiger seems to have been overall dark
yellow with broad soft or hard-edged brown bands.
Use just a tiny spot of super glue for the photo-etch tie-downs. After
painting the glue isn't visible. Try picking each tie-down up with a damp
paint-brush. It's not as hard as it seems. Good luck and have fun.
Herbert Ackermans
CYBER BORG <CYBER-...@webtv.net> schreef in berichtnieuws
19128-37...@newsd-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
> I would like to say a very big thank you
> to all for your kind help to me with this.
> And if anyone has any other construction
> tips or hints about this kit , would they please let me know. Also -
> how in the world co you put on all those tiny photo
> etch -grab handles- or whatever they are
> without leaving any glue spots or marks.
These are tie-downs for camouflage-nets, found around the fighting
compartment and the engine deck. The way I applied them was to put a little
blob of plastic-glue on the spot, wet a fingertip, pick up the etched part,
place it on the dot/now soft plastic and let it cure. Worked very well
without any damage to the kit, ie glue marks or what else.
> Yes , I know that's a dumb question.
Not. It's a trick, and if you don't come up with it, there's nothing wrong
with asking. How'd you think modelers get their techniques? Form their
genes?
> But I've done very little PE and nothing
> this small. And I'd like this one to Look
> as good as possible.
Ever tried Aber PE-sets...?
MAn, detail is stunning, but it's impossible to construct.
Kurt Laughlin
> compartment and the engine deck.
Actually, they were for simple tarps as the roofs of SPGs were prone to
water leakage because they had many bolted covers. You'll note that they
are on other vehicles with flat superstructure roofs such as Jagdpanzer IV
and Bummbar. That is why they are near the edge of the superstructure roof
rather than down on the perimeter of hull - a position much more conducive
to camouflage.
I don't think the Germans were frequent users of camouflage nets. Even in
field artillery positions, where the Allies invariably set up nets, the
Germans used natural foliage. The only photos I recall of German camouflage
nets were in emplacements along the Atlantic Wall. I don't think I ever saw
one carried on an AFV.
KL
Bev Clark/Steve Gallacci
to stick branchs or other folage into. The loops were towords the tops in
order to have any bits well up the sides and over the top to break-up the
silliouhet (I can never spell that right) or even cover the tops, as the
primary concern was being spotted by Jabos. I've seen a few photos of
rolls of cammo netting on German AFVs.
The simple tarp tie-down explaination doesn't wash well, considering the
appearence and pattern of loops on vehicles that don't need them or lack
of loops on those that did, and the extensive pattern of loops that
begain appearing on all kinds of vehicles after Normandy with the
increased need for cammo against Jabos.
Kurt Plummer
> I would like to say a very big thank you
> to all for your kind help to me with this.
> And if anyone has any other construction
> tips or hints about this kit , would they please let me know. Also -
> how in the world co you put on all those tiny photo
> etch -grab handles- or whatever they are
> without leaving any glue spots or marks.
> Yes , I know that's a dumb question.
> But I've done very little PE and nothing
> this small. And I'd like this one to Look
> as good as possible..........
> Thanks again....
> anyone who would like to send things
> directly to me can do so........
> Cyber-Borg.........
>
> " RESISTANCE is FUTILE - your life as it has been is OVER from this
> time forward --- YOU WILL SERVICE US..."
>
> ******* " YOU MAY SPEAK..." *******
>
> WIT & WISDOM by -- *Locutus-of-BORG* from -- "THE BEST of BOTH
> WORLDS"
> ________ " PART ONE " ____________
Hey Cyber-B,
You might also check out the Hyperscale Site. I know, I know, but 'once
upon a time' TrackLink went down for awhile and they hosted an armor
group discussion board.
Somewhere in this time frame they also had an article with an /uber
deutsche/ painting and dirtification guide on 'How To Do Big Targets'.
The subject may have been a Morser but I think it was a JT and it took
you from the basics of a too-new factory scheme to a fully 'worked in'
field service model; all in a minimal number of airbrush steps. If it's
not there now, ask Brett, he's pretty good about reposting articles.
Sorry if this has been mentioned already but my server is playing funky
chicken with the message list /again/.
KP
LINKS-
Hyperscale
http://www.hyperscale.com/
Paul A. Owen
> You might also check out the Hyperscale Site. I know, I know, but 'once
> upon a time' TrackLink went down for awhile and they hosted an armor
> group discussion board.
Track-Link is very much alive and well. I am the 'They' you refer to, I
have severalNNTP groups for AFV modelling and soon a new HTTP-NNTP
interface for the NNTP impaired.
Paul.
CYBER BORG
(Paul A. Owen) wrote:
" Track-Link is very much alive and well.
Thank you for posting in on this.
The camouflage colours for this are listed
as the following Italeri Paint #'s
wood brown #1735
khaki green #1710
RLM-79 #1706
Could you tell me if these are correct if
not what should they be. And what are
the model-master equivalencies for the
Enamels and the Acrylics.
CYBER BORG
Thank you for posting in on this I will ask you the following as
well........
(Kurt Plummer) wrote:
" Somewhere in this time frame they also had an article ...on 'How To Do
Big Targets'. "
The camouflage colours are listed as being
the following Italeri Paint #'s
wood brown # 1735
khaki green # 1701
RLM#79 sandy brown # 1706
Are the correct and what are the Model
Master equivalencies for the Enamels
and the Acrylics. And could you tell me how do get in "Brett" to ask
him about the article you mentioned......