rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
Brooks Moses
OB wrote:
> Gee, why didnt you just sell our email addresses to SPAM companies, and
> save them the minute effort.
Well, actually, they _are_ "spam people".... They sent me a SPAM
message asking me to join them -- you see, they go around finding
newsgroup CFV's and vote yes on them, mostly just for the heck of it,
with some high-minded anti-tyrrany rhetoric thrown in for good measure.
Claimed "250 members" of their "yes-voting" organization, I think.
They apparently were ticked about some sci-fi games marketplace
newsgroup or somesuch (if I remember correctly, which I most likely
don't quite) that was recently voted on, because they also mentioned
that in their spam.
> Whoever published this list obviously has some sort of vindictive chip
> on his/her shoulder, and I for one think that, even including every single
> damn flame war, including those that I have been a part of, this is perhaps
> THE most immature thing I have ever seen someone stoop too.
Agreed -- particularly posting it to the alt.* . If I hadn't already
deleted the message they sent me, I would give them as much heck as
possible through their ISP.
PLEASE, people -- if you get this spam, report them to their ISP!
(Also, they couldn't count. Claimed we needed "6 more votes", not five
as was actually the case.)
> You are pitiful and pathetic to pull a stunt like this, and I think we
> all know who you are.
So how did they get access to a multimailer? Or were they really
retentive enough to type in all the addresses by hand? (probably....)
- Brooks
The YES.Org
news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
Voted No
---------------------------------------
a...@creighton.edu Alex M. Postpischil
brum...@selway.umt.edu Larry Brumback
BU...@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU
cala...@chass.utoronto.ca T.Calabrese
chr...@nortel.ca Chris Ebenezer
cip...@mindspring.com David A. Howard
Doug_Evans/CSN/UN...@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU Douglas J. Evans
eng...@galaxy.galstar.com Eric England
fr...@ucla.edu Frank Henriquez
gba...@pluto.cs.uah.edu Greg Bacon
GRBr...@aol.com G. Broman
jas...@fl.net.au Jasmine Taylor
jgr...@technologist.com Jon Gruber
loj...@almaak.usc.edu Brian Lojeck
lsh...@erols.com Lester D. Shubin
mk...@ix.netcom.com Mark Knowlton
na...@mips.rhein-neckar.de Christian Weisgerber
o...@bigfoot.com OB
ol...@viking.mv.com Olav Nieuwejaar
pa...@cag.lcs.mit.edu Patrick J. LoPresti
pbe...@earthlink.net Paul Bernhardt
ra...@nconnect.net Roger Aultman
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller
sa...@sprynet.com Steven Brooks
slje...@tac.com.au Shane & Lorna Jenkins
ssha...@lanshark.com Scott Sharkey
stai...@bga.com Dwight Brown
stei...@primenet.com Jason Steiner
TimTh...@aol.com TimTherese
vam...@access.digex.net Paul M. M. Jacobus
wa...@niakwa.com Wayne Morris
witt...@mc.duke.edu Kevin Witte
wm...@frii.com Bill Rogers
Clean Email List for Verification:
-------------------------------------------------
a...@creighton.edu
brum...@selway.umt.edu
BU...@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU
cala...@chass.utoronto.ca
chr...@nortel.ca
cip...@mindspring.com
Doug_Evans/CSN/UN...@UNebMail.UNeb.EDU
eng...@galaxy.galstar.com
fr...@ucla.edu
gba...@pluto.cs.uah.edu
GRBr...@aol.com
jas...@fl.net.au
jgr...@technologist.com
loj...@almaak.usc.edu
lsh...@erols.com
mk...@ix.netcom.com
na...@mips.rhein-neckar.de
o...@bigfoot.com
ol...@viking.mv.com
pa...@cag.lcs.mit.edu
pbe...@earthlink.net
ra...@nconnect.net
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu
sa...@sprynet.com
slje...@tac.com.au
ssha...@lanshark.com
stai...@bga.com
stei...@primenet.com
TimTh...@aol.com
vam...@access.digex.net
wa...@niakwa.com
witt...@mc.duke.edu
wm...@frii.com
OB
Gee, why didnt you just sell our email addresses to SPAM companies, and
save them the minute effort.
Whoever published this list obviously has some sort of vindictive chip
on his/her shoulder, and I for one think that, even including every single
damn flame war, including those that I have been a part of, this is perhaps
THE most immature thing I have ever seen someone stoop too.
You are pitiful and pathetic to pull a stunt like this, and I think we
all know who you are.
Grnbe21505
You can add my name to the list of people who voted "NO" if it'll make you feel
better about yourself.
It's better to have entered a model contest and lost, than to have collected
stamps.
Dan Winfield
Well you can add my "NO" to the list because I'm sick of seeing this crap continue,
"Who Cares!!!" Obviously he/she/it/they are convinced mistakenly that anyone
really gives a crap. Keep it up, and my Mon-key will have a three legged race
to the hospital with he/she/it/them. I remain.
MRLB DanĀ¹ "Did you know that Pinocchio is Italian for
Pine head?"
Andy Harman
On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 05:33:43 GMT, Vot...@USA.Net (The YES.Org) wrote:
<caca snipped>
Dear Anonymous Dillwipe:
Rarely has someone supporting a cause been so obnoxious as to make me
want to vote against it just because of the campaign. If one of my
arch competitors is ever in need of a publicity agent, I will highly
recommend you for the job... oh wait, I can't... you posted
everybody's name except yours...
Andy
Visit the Prototype Modelers Group Web Page at http://w3.one.net/~aharman/index.html
Sorry I must resort to anti-spam practice, reply to aharman at one (spelled out) dot net
Cathy/Andy Irving
The YES.Org wrote:
>
> news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
> Voted No
-- That's why you have a vote! The majority rules whether everybody on
the opposite side likes it or not.
Andy
P.S. Like most ,I imagine, I didn't care either way.
Compaq
Aye, I didn't bother voting either...partly because I didn't
particularly care, and second because we get enough "for sale" item's here
and I don't think anyone would stop posting them here. We'd just end up with
pointless duplication.
--
The Black Cube Inc.
Webspace design
Network securities
t...@cryogen.com
http://www.geocities.com/paris/leftbank/4426
ICQ Network - 6169296
(416) 793-3712
Pursuant to USC 47, there is a $500 per incident charge for each and
every piece of Unsolicited Commercial Email (UCE) sent to this or any
of my other addresses. Sending UCE's to any of my addresses implys
general acceptance of these terms.
Cathy/Andy Irving wrote in message <352A27...@interlog.com>...
>The YES.Org wrote:
>>
>>
news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.m
David Outen
The YES.Org <Vot...@USA.Net> wrote in article
<6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>
news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.m
isc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
>
>
> Voted No
> Clean Email List for Verification:
> -------------------------------------------------
How considerate of you to post unmunged email addresses so that the
harvesters can pick them up. I hope that others will do as I am about to.
Let the abuse department at Worldnet know about your revenge posting. I
suspect it violates their TOS.
Dave
William Reece
I've been involved in rec.model.scale for about 3 years now. Until today I
didn't think that someone would go so low as to post a list of people who
voted NO on rec.models.scale.marketplace. This is reprehensible. The fact
is that it failed due to some of the following reasons:
1) You (the poster of this bile) failed to convince a majority of voters
that r.m.s.m was worthwhile. It failed due to your lack of an effective
campaign to gather enough support for your idea. This is like a politician
blaming his/her staff for failing to get enough votes.
2) Many of us like the diversity of r.m.s. just the way it is. This is why
attempts to split r.m.s. always seem to fail. Sometimes a bad idea is just
a bad idea.
3) This is a hobby. A serious one for many of us no doubt, but still a
hobby. It is not a lifestyle, a business, or a crusade. Many of us just
want to have fun. Remember that?
The arrogance of your posting the names and e-mail addresses is a most
vile thing to do. IÄ
m sure that you would never post those who voted Yes,
just as you would never post your name and e-mail address. It is a shame
that you think that you must retaliate against those who ÅwrongedÄ
you.
How childish. My 8 year old knows better.
The fact is that you blame others for failure and choose not to accept any
responsibility for it.
I will end here. I like r.m.s. just the way it is. Apparently so do many
of itÄ
s readers.
William Reece,
Fly Navy!
So many models, so little time
Allan Goodall
On 7 Apr 98 13:43:38 GMT, in message
<01bd622a$ffd8f900$982c...@chaos.mw.mediaone.net>, "David Outen"
<Zdou...@ibm.net> wrote:
>How considerate of you to post unmunged email addresses so that the
>harvesters can pick them up. I hope that others will do as I am about to.
> Let the abuse department at Worldnet know about your revenge posting. I
>suspect it violates their TOS.
The results of the vote were posted in the relevent groups a couple of days
ago. It included a list of all voters, those who voted yes and those who
voted no. I don't know if this is standard after a newsgroup vote, but I
didn't see anything mallicious in it. The "unmunged" e-mail addresses were
already available for e-mail harvesters.
This guy's post, however, was malicious (or seemed to be). By only posting
the "no" voters he's obviously trying to incite some sort of negative
reaction against them. I'm willing to bet that nothing happens at Worldnet,
though.
Allan Goodall agoo...@sympatico.ca
"Once again, the half time score.
Alien Overlords: 142,000. Scotland: zip."
- This Hour Has 22 Minutes
Allan Goodall
On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 10:31:48 -0400, in message
<William_Reece-0...@reece.hort.ncsu.edu>,
Willia...@server.hort.ncsu.edu (William Reece) wrote:
>I've been involved in rec.model.scale for about 3 years now. Until today I
>didn't think that someone would go so low as to post a list of people who
>voted NO on rec.models.scale.marketplace. This is reprehensible.
Actually, the list of "no" voters was already made available in the results
of the vote. I'm not sure if that was kosher or not, but it's already been
done.
>1) You (the poster of this bile) failed to convince a majority of voters
>that r.m.s.m was worthwhile.
According to the vote results, a majority of voters did think it was
worthwhile. What they didn't get was 100 more voters for the group than
against it (or they didn't get the requisite minimum number of voters, I
can't remember which).
>The arrogance of your posting the names and e-mail addresses is a most
>vile thing to do. IÄ
m sure that you would never post those who voted Yes,
>just as you would never post your name and e-mail address. It is a shame
>that you think that you must retaliate against those who ÅwrongedÄ
you.
>How childish. My 8 year old knows better.
The original vote result had the list of "yes" voters. Your points are
still valid, though. This guy is just being malicious.
Mike Tennent
I voted yes, but you may rest assured I won't do it again after this BS.
<List of No voters snipped>
Mike "TriBop" Tennent
http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/
WebRunner Running
My Model Railroad
'98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site
Nathan Beauheim
William Reece wrote:
>
> I've been involved in rec.model.scale for about 3 years now. Until today I
> didn't think that someone would go so low as to post a list of people who
> is that it failed due to some of the following reasons:
Unfortunately, this isn't confined to rec.model.scale.marketplace. The
same person also did this for rec.scouting.international and
sci.techniques.thermal. So we aren't the only lucky ones. However,
what I find interesting is how this person got this information.
Shouldn't only the votetaker know who voted and how? FWIW, the
votetaker for rec.models.scale.marketplace was: Jim Davis
j...@primenet.com
<snip>
--
Nathan Beauheim
beauheim@cae#$%^&*.wisc.edu (remove the #$%^&*)
Invest in America: Buy a Congressman.
CharlieH
Allan Goodall <agoo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in article
<352e41ae...@newsserver.rdcs.kodak.com>...
> On 7 Apr 98 13:43:38 GMT, in message
> <01bd622a$ffd8f900$982c...@chaos.mw.mediaone.net>, "David Outen"
> <Zdou...@ibm.net> wrote:
>
> >How considerate of you to post unmunged email addresses so that the
> >harvesters can pick them up. I hope that others will do as I am about
to.
> > Let the abuse department at Worldnet know about your revenge posting.
I
> >suspect it violates their TOS.
>
> The results of the vote were posted in the relevent groups a couple of
days
> ago. It included a list of all voters, those who voted yes and those who
> voted no. I don't know if this is standard after a newsgroup vote, but I
> didn't see anything mallicious in it. The "unmunged" e-mail addresses
were
> already available for e-mail harvesters.
>
> This guy's post, however, was malicious (or seemed to be). By only
posting
> the "no" voters he's obviously trying to incite some sort of negative
> reaction against them. I'm willing to bet that nothing happens at
Worldnet,
> though.
>
>
> Allan Goodall agoo...@sympatico.ca
>
> "Once again, the half time score.
> Alien Overlords: 142,000. Scotland: zip."
> - This Hour Has 22 Minutes
>
It is interesting that he e-mailed the "yes" voters soliciting them to sign
on with him for automatic yes answer the next time this CFV is raised on
the group.
Although I voted yes I feel that the posting of all the "No" voters names
etc not proper and if I knew how I'd like to take action against him.
Regards
Charlie
OB
The reason why this *person* got all the "No" voters and their email is that
the results were posted by the CFV, including all addresses, which, as I've
said before was a bonehead mistake. Both then, and more so now, since this
*person* went through the trouble of "cleaning up" the addresses, which was
intentionally done to signal Spambots, there will be a flux of spam to those
addresses posted. Also, it is rather evident that this *person* is someone
who has posted here in RMS before and decided to hide himself behind an
alias since the email address is bogus. Its one thing to be involved in a
flame war, its entirely different and inexcusable to hide oneself out of
pure malicious intentions. However, it seems it is rather obvious who this
person is, given the misguided passion he has shown over this topic before.
I have called AT&T Worldnet, which is where this post originated from, and
after giving them the rhetoric spewed out by our Supreme Court in recent
cases on newsgroup abuse and hate posts, and the liability likely to be
incurred upon the internet service providers who take no action, they were
all to happy to assure me they would find the person and TOSs them, as well
as let me know who the person was. Although I am still somewhat weary as to
whether AT&T will actually do this, I cannot wait to hear from them. If
anyone else, as some have posted, wish to also "do something", calling AT&T
worldnet about the post, when and where it was posted, is the best bet. The
more complaints they get, the sooner and more compelled they will be to take
any action.
I would very much hope that a very public appology would come from the
"Yes.Org" person ASAP, with the poster's real name. Let's see if he has any
cojones at all.
T. Walko
The YES.Org wrote:
>
> news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
Not that fact that the MAJORITY thought it wasn't warranted...oh
goodness no. It's the fact that another PROFESSIONAL VICTIM didn't get
his/her way. Do me and the rest of us a favor...get your coffee spilling
in the crotch friend, your kid in another persons yard and gets hurt
friend, your "but I didn't mean to speed officer" friend and go back to
Fantasy Land where mommy and daddy will wipe your ass after you go
poopies and wipe your runny nose.
Frickin whiners.......
T. Walko
ModelerAl
In article <3529AC...@stanford.edu>, Brooks Moses <bmo...@stanford.edu>
writes:
>Or were they really
retentive enough to type in all the addresses by hand?
If he/they had enough intelligence, which I doubt, the jerk(s) could have
"cut and pasted" from the vote results. Too bad it's too late to change my
vote to "No" just out of spite...
Al Superczynski, MFE
IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968
Check out my want and disposal lists at "Al's Place":
http://users.aol.com/modeleral
"Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to,
and the critics will flame you every time."
Alex M. Postpischil
The YES.Org wrote:
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
Cool! I'm finally at the top of the list for something!!! ;-)
Actually, I don't mind this list being made public, I'm willing to
share my opinion with anyone who asks nicely. Of course, I don't
really care for the "clean" list at the end - that only helps the
spammers...
-alex-
David Outen
Allan Goodall <agoo...@sympatico.ca> wrote in article
<352e41ae...@newsserver.rdcs.kodak.com>...
> On 7 Apr 98 13:43:38 GMT, in message
> The results of the vote were posted in the relevent groups a couple of
days
> ago. It included a list of all voters, those who voted yes and those who
> voted no. I don't know if this is standard after a newsgroup vote, but I
> didn't see anything mallicious in it. The "unmunged" e-mail addresses
were
> already available for e-mail harvesters.
It is standard procedure and some of the volunteer vote takers do munge the
addresses. The one who handled this vote doesn't. A good reason to not
vote IMHO.
>
> This guy's post, however, was malicious (or seemed to be). By only
posting
> the "no" voters he's obviously trying to incite some sort of negative
> reaction against them. I'm willing to bet that nothing happens at
Worldnet,
> though.
>
It is clearly malicious in intent. I wouldn't bet against action being
taken against the poster. Given the tone and content of the message
along with trying to hide behind another email address(is it valid?) may
just be enough to do the trick.
Dave
John Sheridan
Allan Goodall wrote:
>
>
> This guy's post, however, was malicious (or seemed to be). By only posting
> the "no" voters he's obviously trying to incite some sort of negative
> reaction against them. I'm willing to bet that nothing happens at Worldnet,
> though.
>
I've been having some pretty good luck with spammers v.s. Worldnet
lately.
--
John Sheridan @ Microscale Decals
http://www.microscale.com
Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! http://www.cauce.org
John Sheridan
Allan Goodall wrote:
>
>
> The results of the vote were posted in the relevent groups a couple of days
> ago. It included a list of all voters, those who voted yes and those who
> voted no. I don't know if this is standard after a newsgroup vote, but I
> didn't see anything mallicious in it. The "unmunged" e-mail addresses were
> already available for e-mail harvesters.
>
This luser was a troll.
John Sheridan
Nathan Beauheim wrote:
>
> same person also did this for rec.scouting.international and
> sci.techniques.thermal. So we aren't the only lucky ones. However,
> what I find interesting is how this person got this information.
> Shouldn't only the votetaker know who voted and how? FWIW, the
> votetaker for rec.models.scale.marketplace was: Jim Davis
> j...@primenet.com
>
It was spammed across the rec.models groups as well. You know the rule:
more than 5 groups is considered spam.
bChuck
Actually, it didn't fail because this SMALL handful of people (what 33 or
so) voted against it. It didn't fail because of the handful of people who
took the time to vote yes. It failed because you didn't have enough YES
votes. What you should do is blame the 23 million or so usenet users who
DIDN'T vote! It's their apathy that spoiled your little party! Post THEIR
email addresses! ALL of them. Get back to us in a year or 10 when you've
compiled the list, and let us tell you what to do with the list!
bChuck
The YES.Org wrote in message <6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.
misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
>rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
<<Malicious Poop Snipped.>>
TRrmin8r
I'm getting really tired of this crap.
It's not enough that we have been badgered for the last month by the proponents
of this split, now, we find that the 'sore losers' have taken the time out to
post the e-mail addresses of all the 'no' votes. Better yet, these enterprising
individuals have gone to the trouble to remove the spam traps from the
aforementioned addresses.
What a way to encourage people to vote the next time. Better yet, what a great
way to encourage the 'no' voters to change their minds the next time around. I
didn't vote, and I guess I should have (and I actually thought about voting
'Yes'), but you can count on this: I will vote 'NO' each and every single time
this drivel comes back up, and I will also solicit everyone I know to do the
same. You have not only made a fool of yourself, not to mention compromise the
integrity of your cause, but you probably have irreversibly corrupted the
voting process. Who the hell would want to vote now on the assumption that, if
their vote does not agree with yours, that their mailboxes will be filled with
crap every day from now til kingdome come?
I hope that you take great pride in your little sneak attack on other people's
right to a 'spam-free' internet experience. By the way, what's your name? I
see you conveniently left it out. What a brave soul.......
Split the group? HA!
Steve Filak,Sr.=RLWDH
Temple Northeast (of the Umpteenth Order)
Member-Hudson Valley Historical Miniatures Guild
Tim Culberson
In article <6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, Vot...@USA.Net says...
>
>news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.mi
sc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
>rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
>
>
That is the most coawardly, low down, idiotic no good display of poor ethics
and ettiquette I have seen in a very very long time. That is extremely
extremely low. That is lower than low...you're pathetic!
Casey Michael Littmann
From article <6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, by Vot...@USA.Net (The YES.Org):
> news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
Talk about tasteless...
How 'bout posting your real name and e-mail address so I know who
never to buy anything from?
Casey
Demetre Argiro
The YES.Org wrote:
>
> news.groups,alt.sf.scale-models,rec.arts.anime.models,rec.games.miniatures.misc,rec.models.railroad,rec.models.scale
>
> rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
> Voted No
I add my vote to those who said this was a CHICKEN S--T post. I missed the
vote this time, but you can bet your bootie that if it comes up again I will
vote no.
Christopher Lee Frame
Well, I'm against posting all the no voters email addresses even if I wanted them all to vote yes - it certainly won't
do any good for the establishment of RMSM It would be better to attempt to convince them nicely or by using logic.
However, if you people that now believe that you should vote no on RMSM just because of this happening you are just as
bad as the people that posted this message. You should vote for the establishment of a newsgroup based on its merits
and for no other reason.
Christopher Lee Frame
Brooks Moses
Allan Goodall wrote:
> The results of the vote were posted in the relevent groups a couple of days
> ago. It included a list of all voters, those who voted yes and those who
> voted no. I don't know if this is standard after a newsgroup vote, but I
> didn't see anything mallicious in it. The "unmunged" e-mail addresses were
> already available for e-mail harvesters.
>
> the "no" voters he's obviously trying to incite some sort of negative
> reaction against them.
It should be noted that that particular message was crossposted to a few
very notoriously spammed alt.* newsgroups. Care to guess why?
- Brooks
Christopher Lee Frame
William Reece wrote:
> I've been involved in rec.model.scale for about 3 years now. Until today I
> didn't think that someone would go so low as to post a list of people who
> voted NO on rec.models.scale.marketplace. This is reprehensible. The fact
> is that it failed due to some of the following reasons:
>
> 1) You (the poster of this bile) failed to convince a majority of voters
> that r.m.s.m was worthwhile. It failed due to your lack of an effective
> campaign to gather enough support for your idea. This is like a politician
> blaming his/her staff for failing to get enough votes.
Actually, I think that these people don't campaign for any newsgroups creation
individually - they just try to bulk vote for any newsgroups - no campaigning
whatsoever. I NEVER saw anything that said vote yes for RMSM from yes.org
until today and I disagree with their tactic also.
I think that you are jumping to conclusions that the "poster" be it a person
or group of persons did any campaigning whatsoever.
I did worked to try to establish the newsgroup and am annoyed as the rest of
you that this was posted (all the no voters email addresses).
CFrame
Brooks Moses
TRrmin8r wrote:
>
> I'm getting really tired of this crap.
>
> It's not enough that we have been badgered for the last month by the proponents
> of this split, now, we find that the 'sore losers' have taken the time out to
> post the e-mail addresses of all the 'no' votes. Better yet, these enterprising
> individuals have gone to the trouble to remove the spam traps from the
> aforementioned addresses.
<snip>
It needs to be noted that the posters of that annoying message are NOT
from rms and have no affiliation with it, and have done the same thing
for several other newsgroups. Consider the DejaNews arcived message at:
http://x9.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=341595006&CONTEXT=891987992.1436156293&hitnum=4
Please do not hold the work of these creeps against the supporters of
rmsm!
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
William Reece wrote:
> 1) You (the poster of this bile) failed to convince a majority of voters
> that r.m.s.m was worthwhile. It failed due to your lack of an effective
> campaign to gather enough support for your idea. This is like a politician
> blaming his/her staff for failing to get enough votes.
<snip>
> The arrogance of your posting the names and e-mail addresses is a most
> vile thing to do. Ié sure that you would never post those who voted Yes,
> just as you would never post your name and e-mail address. It is a shame
> that you think that you must retaliate against those who "wronged" you.
> How childish. My 8 year old knows better.
I agree that this was incredibly vile and reprehensible. However, it
needs to be noted that the posters of that annoying message are NOT from
rms and have no affiliation with it, and have done the same thing for
several other newsgroups. Consider the DejaNews archived message at:
Christopher Lee Frame
All the yes and no voter email addresses where posted on the original message
that stated that RMSM failed and was posted on alot of newsgroups by the
votetaker as per standard procedure (I assume).
CFrame
Nathan Beauheim wrote:
> William Reece wrote:
> >
> > I've been involved in rec.model.scale for about 3 years now. Until today I
> > didn't think that someone would go so low as to post a list of people who
> > voted NO on rec.models.scale.marketplace. This is reprehensible. The fact
> > is that it failed due to some of the following reasons:
>
> Unfortunately, this isn't confined to rec.model.scale.marketplace. The
> same person also did this for rec.scouting.international and
> sci.techniques.thermal. So we aren't the only lucky ones. However,
> what I find interesting is how this person got this information.
> Shouldn't only the votetaker know who voted and how? FWIW, the
> votetaker for rec.models.scale.marketplace was: Jim Davis
> j...@primenet.com
>
Christopher Lee Frame
Apparently not ALL the yes voters, as I didn't get anything (not that I want it
either because I won't join). I vote based on merits.
CFrame
Brooks Moses
OB wrote:
>
> The reason why this *person* got all the "No" voters and their email is that
> the results were posted by the CFV, including all addresses, which, as I've
> said before was a bonehead mistake.
And _required_ by newsgroup voting procedure.
> Both then, and more so now, since this
> *person* went through the trouble of "cleaning up" the addresses, which was
> intentionally done to signal Spambots, there will be a flux of spam to those
> addresses posted. Also, it is rather evident that this *person* is someone
> who has posted here in RMS before and decided to hide himself behind an
> alias since the email address is bogus.
Actually, they did this exact same posting of naysayer's addresses to
several other groups, as I mentioned in my reply to Rudiger's reply to
one of your other messages.
> Its one thing to be involved in a
> flame war, its entirely different and inexcusable to hide oneself out of
> pure malicious intentions. However, it seems it is rather obvious who this
> person is, given the misguided passion he has shown over this topic before.
Are you still sure of this? Read the other posts of this same nature in
other completely unrelated groups.
> I have called AT&T Worldnet, which is where this post originated from, and
> after giving them the rhetoric spewed out by our Supreme Court in recent
> cases on newsgroup abuse and hate posts, and the liability likely to be
> incurred upon the internet service providers who take no action, they were
> all to happy to assure me they would find the person and TOSs them, as well
> as let me know who the person was. Although I am still somewhat weary as to
> whether AT&T will actually do this, I cannot wait to hear from them. If
> anyone else, as some have posted, wish to also "do something", calling AT&T
> worldnet about the post, when and where it was posted, is the best bet. The
> more complaints they get, the sooner and more compelled they will be to take
> any action.
>
> I would very much hope that a very public appology would come from the
> "Yes.Org" person ASAP, with the poster's real name. Let's see if he has any
> cojones at all.
Well, umm, in one of the early pages about this organization, the name
"l...@io.com (Lee M. Latham)" was used to sign the message, and the
implication was that one could join by _either_ e-mailing Mr. Latham
_or_ the Join@ address. Go to:
http://x3.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=329051129.2&CONTEXT=891988311.860094576&hitnum=4
for details.
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
Casey Michael Littmann wrote:
> How 'bout posting your real name and e-mail address so I know who
> never to buy anything from?
>
> Casey
Well, go to the main page of the server on which their web page is
hosted. Yes, their web page -- it's at http://VoteYes.Org/Yes/ -- if you
voted yes, you got a spam message asking you to join their
organization.
Now, if you go to http://VoteYes.Org/ you will find that they are stamp
collectors.... I doubt you have to worry about buying from them.
This reminds me of a certain tag line -- "It's better to have entered a
model contest and lost, than to have collected stamps".... :) Now we
know why.
- Brooks
Brooks Moses
Mike Tennent wrote:
> I voted yes, but you may rest assured I won't do it again after this BS.
Why? As proven in several other posts, that particular underhanded
trick was not the work of anyone involved with rms or the creation of
rmsm. They just have a bone to pick with anyone who votes "no" for any
newsgroup.
- Brooks
Christopher Lee Frame
I just saw this nasty thread. I read the newest postings first and then get to
the older ones - so I'm reading this after all the other details. Hope everyone
doesn't think I did this because I didn't.
Also, I'm not so sure it is just one person as this yes.org could be a group of
people. I know you are all pissed (I hate spam email that I get), but I don't
think you should take it personally - they probably just rate you all as another
batch NO voters. I realize that some of you have legitimate reasons for voting
NO for RMSM and although I don't agree with them and will email battle with you
on the net about the pros and cons to RMSM, I'm not the type to post all the
email addresses to the net as I could predict this type of negative backlash.
I hope that people will vote for any newsgroup based on its individual merits
and not on some "slick willy" campaigning scheme.
Christopher Lee Frame
Still a proponent of RMSM
Christopher Lee Frame
You forgot about calling them whiners too. I saw a better message that REALLY
called them whiners a few messages ago. Yes, these people are definitely cowardly
for not posting their email address(es).
CFrame
Tim Culberson wrote:
> In article <6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>, Vot...@USA.Net says...
>
> >rec.models.scale.marketplace : fails due to these people
>
Brooks Moses
Christopher Lee Frame wrote:
> You forgot about calling them whiners too. I saw a better message that REALLY
> called them whiners a few messages ago. Yes, these people are definitely cowardly
> for not posting their email address(es).
Oh, look for the "Re: The "YES" group" thread in Deja News on the
news.groups newsgroup.... You'll find that they once listed their names
and e-mail addresses, although I'm not too sure the e-mail addresses are
still valid.
On the other hand, this certainly hasn't changed: Their names are
(allegedly) Lee and Greg, they are (allegedly) ISP operators of some
form, and one of them (allegedly) is a stamp collector who has
(allegedly) been known to forge new-group creation control messages.
Also, they have allegedly called and griped "net abuse! hacking!
illegal activity!" to the employer of one person who suggested
complaining to their ISP and posted the e-mail address to do so. I have
informed my university that they may get some gripes about me -- it
might be some prudent for others to do this too.
- Brooks
OB
>I agree that this was incredibly vile and reprehensible. However, it
>needs to be noted that the posters of that annoying message are NOT from
>rms and have no affiliation with it, and have done the same thing for
>several other newsgroups.
Dont you think though that at the very least, someone from RMS "tipped them
off" about those who voted no? Or perhaps, someon on RMS is also a member
of Yes.Org? If they emailed everyone who voted "yes" to join their group, I
get the feeling that there was at least one taker, and he was most likely
the one that was involved in posting the message here.
Christopher Lee Frame
OB wrote:
> Dont you think though that at the very least, someone from RMS "tipped them
> off" about those who voted no?
No, all they have to do is keep scanning news.groups to get the results for ALL
the voting for ALL the new newsgroups and hammer the no voters. Why should
anyone have to tip them off? Common sense dictates that keeping an eye on
news.groups would allow them to see that rec.models.scale.marketplace failed AND
get the email addresses. BUT, although I don't THINK it happened doesn't mean
it didn't. There is a possibility, but to me it is not probable.
> Or perhaps, someon on RMS is also a member
> of Yes.Org?
That is certainly possible. But it isn't me.
> If they emailed everyone who voted "yes" to join their group, I
> get the feeling that there was at least one taker, and he was most likely
> the one that was involved in posting the message here.
>
> OB
> o...@bigfoot.com
Well good luck in finding that person or persons. If you do, I will help you in
removing their email address if it is really illegal to do this sort of thing
(and it seems that it is although I don't know the actual law).
Incidently I am a Constable of Walker Township (part time) and have a
responsibility to maintain peace at the voting polls in the township (only two
polls). So I am interesting in the breach of net nicities and possible
illegality.
Christopher Lee Frame
Jay Adan
ModelerAl wrote:
>
> In article <3529AC...@stanford.edu>, Brooks Moses <bmo...@stanford.edu>
> writes:
>
> >Or were they really
> retentive enough to type in all the addresses by hand?
>
> If he/they had enough intelligence, which I doubt, the jerk(s) could have
> "cut and pasted" from the vote results. Too bad it's too late to change my
> vote to "No" just out of spite...
> Al Superczynski, MFE
> IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968
What the HECK are you all talking about?
--
T A N G E N T S
Your US Source for:
Sci-Fi & Fantasy Models Magazine
&
Science Fiction Modeller
http://tangents-sf.com
Be Sure to check out the new SF modeling Newsgroup - alt.sf.scale-models
Shane Weier
am...@acpub.duke.edu wrote:
>
> agoo...@sympatico.ca (Allan Goodall) wrote:
>
> >Actually, the list of "no" voters was already made available in the results
> >of the vote. I'm not sure if that was kosher or not, but it's already been
> >done.
>
> I guess it is "kosher" as about 18 months ago there was a call for vote to
> split out tinplate from the rec.models.railroad newsgroup. That attempt
> too was voted down and the vote taker posted the complete results including
> those who voted "yes" and those who voted "no".
>
It always happens, and should. The purpose is to allow those who voted
to check for themselves that their vote was counted and that no
irregularities occur - like votes being made to dissappear, non voters
mysteriously appearing in the list and so on. It protects the vote taker
against accusations of impropriety by allowing the process, like
justice, to be seen as well as to be done
OTOH, pulling the results apart to badger NO voters or solicit YES
voters to post illegal votes at some future poll is NOT normal and
should NOT happen
regards
Shane Weier
Penmod
Jeez...I voted "yes" but I am physically ill just thinking that someone would
pull a stupid little stunt like publishing the names of those who voted "no".
What was their intention...start a flame war between the folks who voted "yes"
and those who voted "no"? I don't think that's gonna happen...thank GAWD we
here on RMS are MUCH too emotionally mature to fall for that sort of thing! As
far as the little imp who posted the list "anonymously"...well, you can crawl
back under your rock now...you failed miserably!
(Voting "no" to trolls),
MRLMMD:
Marty Oberman, Jr.
(Pen...@aol.com)
"To strive for progress, not perfection."
Rommel1234
>Actually, I think that these people don't campaign for any newsgroups
>creation
>individually - they just try to bulk vote for any newsgroups - no campaigning
>whatsoever. I NEVER saw anything that said vote yes for RMSM from yes.org
>until today and I disagree with their tactic also.
>CFrame
This whole mess is screwy. What sensible person would do something that
antagonizes so many people that he wants to influence? It's kind of like
punching someone in the kidney to get their attention to, say, ask for
directions. If someone wanted to get the opposite of the results stated, this
stunt would fit the bill. There are too many unknowns about this whole
deal.... It smells fishy. Almost as if the swine wanted folks to vote "no".
IMHO, the best course of action is to ignore the swine, ignore distraction and
make objective choices.
James B
Christopher Lee Frame
Rommel1234 wrote:
> This whole mess is screwy. What sensible person would do something that
> antagonizes so many people that he wants to influence? It's kind of like
> punching someone in the kidney to get their attention to, say, ask for
> directions. If someone wanted to get the opposite of the results stated, this
> stunt would fit the bill. There are too many unknowns about this whole
> deal.... It smells fishy. Almost as if the swine wanted folks to vote "no".
>
> IMHO, the best course of action is to ignore the swine, ignore distraction and
> make objective choices.
>
> James B
First, thanks for this neat idea Rommel, now to play on it instead of painting my
Me163 model that I should be doing.
Oh my gosh, I just can't resist this.
If I was a presumptuous person, WHO would I believe that voted NO for RMSM that
might underhandedly scheme to post the names of all the no voters (including
himself or herself) and then whine REALLY loudly about the whole matter to attract
attention in an attempt to doom RMSM's future.
Well it doesn't matter because I'm not presumptuous and I reserve judgement for
when as many of the facts are in as possible. I despise "mob rules" mentalities
and have seen disasterous results of such actions (an innocent boy almost lynched
to death in Philadelphia for example after a female falsely accused him of rape -
an intentional lie as it became to be known in the aftermath - and a bunch of
presumptuous idiots ended up in jail).
Of course your last sentence is the best - vote based on merit. I feel like a
rhino in afrika with alot of fires to put out and stomp I will....
Well, back to my Me163 Komet.
Christopher Lee Frame
ModelerAl
In article <352ABB...@stanford.edu>, Brooks Moses <bmo...@stanford.edu>
writes:
>if you
voted yes, you got a spam message asking you to join
>their
organization.
Whew! I didn't get one (yet - knock on wood). Guess I'm either lucky, or
AOL's SPAM filters are even better than I thought...
Al Superczynski, MFE
IPMS/USA #3795, continuous since 1968
Check out my want and disposal lists at "Al's Place":
http://users.aol.com/modeleral
"Build what YOU like, the way YOU want to,
and the critics will flame you every time."
F. DABNEY
On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Christopher Lee Frame wrote:
> You forgot about calling them whiners too. I saw a better message that REALLY
> called them whiners a few messages ago. Yes, these people are definitely cowardly
> for not posting their email address(es).
In particular, I despise those twits and twats that send loaded political
messages where the senders don't have the courage of their convictions,
and use phony names and addresses. Such people are beneath contempt, and
aside from the gratification they get from the electronic equivalent of
scrawling obscenities on the church wall, I can't see what they get from
doing it. Cowards all.
Most of those who use this list, at least do use their own names and
addresses, even if they are embedded in various anti-spam decoys.
Listen to something obscure from the world of early blues and jazz with
host Fred Dabney at 9 pm on Friday and Saturday nights on KRWG, 90.7 FM,
Las Cruces, NM. <fda...@nmsu.edu>
Paul M. M. Jacobus
On 7 Apr 1998, CharlieH wrote:
> It is interesting that he e-mailed the "yes" voters soliciting them to
> sign on with him for automatic yes answer the next time this CFV is
> raised on the group.
This legal?
> Although I voted yes I feel that the posting of all the "No" voters names
> etc not proper and if I knew how I'd like to take action against him.
I sent my note to worldnet also; everyone else should do the same.
Spammers cannot be tolerated.
JD
Paul M. M. Jacobus
From: "The YES.Org" <Vot...@USA.Net> Reply-To: Joi...@USA.Net
[text snipped]
Dear anonymous poster: if you have something to say about it, say it. If
not, then quit being a spammer and hiding behind anonymous addresses. I
voted against it, and I'd do it again. But either way, quit the pointless
posting to the newsgroups.
JD
Dan Winfield
talley me banana's cause me wants to go homeeeeeee.
MRLB DanĀ¹
Dan Winfield
Christopher
Accept it, it's over, chin up, stiff upper lip and all that rot, you've
rode this one into the ground, crawl off the carcass and walk away.
MRLB DanĀ¹
Mike Tennent
Christopher Lee Frame <fr...@essc.psu.edu> wrote:
>
>However, if you people that now believe that you should vote no on RMSM just because of this happening you are just as
>bad as the people that posted this message.
In a word - no. I'm not as bad as them. Not even close. And frankly I resent
your implying that.
>You should vote for the establishment of a newsgroup based on its merits
>and for no other reason.
>
People vote for or against something for a variety of reasons, including an
evaluation of the people supporting an issue. In this case, some of the
supporters of the issue have demonstrated a lack of ethics combined with a
boorish attitude. That will influence my future vote.
Is that fair? Hey, the only thing in life really fair is a baseball hit between
the 1st baseline and the 3rd baseline.
Mike "TriBop" Tennent
http://www.gate.net/~wbrunner/
WebRunner Running
My Model Railroad
'98 Ironman Canada IronVirgins Site
AFisherJr
>It is clearly malicious in intent.
Oh come now! Self-serving perhaps, but hardly malicious!
Al Fisher
13217 Deron Ave.
San Diego, CA 92129-2511
Phone: (619) 484-2816; email: afis...@aol.com
POS
you forgot to list me as a no voter.
ScottK
The YES.Org wrote in message <6gcai9$c...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
>news.groups,alt.sf.scale-
Lane Shutt
Rommel1234 wrote:
>
> > This whole mess is screwy. What sensible person would do something that
> > antagonizes so many people that he wants to influence?
> > stunt would fit the bill. There are too many unknowns about this whole
> > deal.... It smells fishy.
If the Yes Group wanted to accurately place the blame
on someone they should have listed the names/ email of
all those who "did not vote".
--
Lane Shutt <lms...@hiwaay.net>
ModelerAl
In article <352ABC7E...@tangents-sf.com>, Jay Adan <J...@tangents-sf.com>
writes:
>What the HECK are you all talking about?
It's been a pretty long thread, Jay. Why not pick it up off Deja News?
Rommel1234
>If I was a presumptuous person, WHO would I believe that voted NO for RMSM
>that
>might underhandedly scheme to post the names of all the no voters (including
>himself or herself) and then whine REALLY loudly about the whole matter to
>attract
>attention in an attempt to doom RMSM's future.
Not what I meant at all. I wondered if some party or other might wish to limit
expansion of NG's, for whatever reason. A little far fetched but not
impossible.
>Well it doesn't matter because I'm not presumptuous and I reserve judgement
>for
>when as many of the facts are in as possible. I despise "mob rules"
>mentalities
Me too.
> and a bunch of
>presumptuous idiots ended up in jail).
How long did they keep you locked up? :<p
>I feel like a
>rhino in afrika with alot of fires to put out and stomp I will....
Lighten up, will you? Those aren't fires, they're mole-hills, and definately
not mountains.
Part of the thought behind first post is that actually finding out exactly who
and why (especially why) that BS got posted probably ain't gonna happen.
Probably aint worth the effort, either.
BUT, seems like acceptance of RMSM has been damaged by the "NO" vote posting.
So is someone stupid, or smart? Which?
BTW, my name is James, not rommel. Rommel is part of my email address.
James B
Jay Adan
OB wrote:
>
> Dont you think though that at the very least, someone from RMS "tipped them
> off" about those who voted no? Or perhaps, someon on RMS is also a member
> of Yes.Org? If they emailed everyone who voted "yes" to join their group, I
> get the feeling that there was at least one taker, and he was most likely
> the one that was involved in posting the message here.
>
> OB
> o...@bigfoot.com
OB,
Don't you think that if somebody who wanted RMS to pass had been
involved in YES then the newsgroup would have passed? That's the whole
point of YES.
BTW - I first heard of YES about the time the vote was coming to a close
because at the time I was still reading the NEWSGROUP.NEWSGROUPS. It
seems like YES was spawned by an angry stamp collector who was unhappy
with the way the voting process worked.
Brooks Moses
Rommel1234 wrote:
> Part of the thought behind first post is that actually finding out exactly who
> and why (especially why) that BS got posted probably ain't gonna happen.
> Probably aint worth the effort, either.
Actually, for what it's worth, it's not that hard to find out. My sysop
knew immediately who I was talking about when I mentioned the group to
him.... They apparently are well known for various and sundry
activities -- of which this is only a small part....
- Brooks
Art Murray
The idiot who wrote this has just assured that RMSM will never pass.
Sorry now that I didn't vote. When (if) it comes up again I'll be sure
to vote "NO".
Art
C.L.Zeni
Done and did. Somebody with the skills to do it ought to find out who
this clown is for us.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html
No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats,
approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less.
Eric Schilling
Christopher Lee Frame <fr...@essc.psu.edu> wrote:
>Well, I'm against posting all the no voters email addresses even if I wanted them all to vote yes - it certainly won't
>do any good for the establishment of RMSM It would be better to attempt to convince them nicely or by using logic.
IIRC, In order for the vote to be valid, the vote results *have* to be
posted. At least that way, there are less arguments about "fraud".
Maybe the expectation of a "secret" ballot (like in the USA) is what
is at work here. To me, this is completely different. I think it
should be public.
>However, if you people that now believe that you should vote no on RMSM just because of this happening you are just as
>bad as the people that posted this message. You should vote for the establishment of a newsgroup based on its merits
>and for no other reason.
I happen to agree completely. However, just as in any democratic
process, people will have their own agendas. That's life.
>Christopher Lee Frame
Eric
Eric Schilling
gan...@msen.com
Russel Osborne
On 8 Apr 1998 21:43:47 GMT, romme...@aol.com (Rommel1234) wrote:
>>If I was a presumptuous person, WHO would I believe that voted NO for RMSM
>>that
>>might underhandedly scheme to post the names of all the no voters (including
>>himself or herself) and then whine REALLY loudly about the whole matter to
>>attract
>>attention in an attempt to doom RMSM's future.
>
>Not what I meant at all. I wondered if some party or other might wish to limit
>expansion of NG's, for whatever reason. A little far fetched but not
>impossible.
>
>
Not that far fetched. Contrary to what some people think, everybody on
the usenet is entitled to vote for or against any new group, or even a
major change to an existing one, (for example a change to a groups
charter) for this exact reason. Unfortunetly, the alt. groups don't
seem to have to comply with these rules. :-( Even though we all now
make jokes about bandwidth, back when these rules were devised, that
was a legitimate concern( and still may be, according to some). I
learned all this after asking who died and made some people God on
another group one time. I was educated quickly and firmly in the ways
of the usenet hierarchy. Not that I necessarily agree with all of it,
but violating it enough times can get your ISP to cancel your account,
so I decided to live with the ways of the world here.
And like others have mentioned before, all votes, for or against were
posted with complete addresses, so whoever posted the names here
really didn't do any damage that hadn't already been done. Any spam
bot could have gotten all the info it needed way before the names were
posted here.
russ
ThomasV12
On Thu, Apr 9, 1998 8:26 AM
Art Murray <amu...@mindspring.com>
Art<<<
Art,
Your reaction shows the same emotional pathos as the guy your railing against.
How 'bout weighing the benefit/detriment, and then making a decision. Hmmmm.
Regards,
Thomas
FDameronUT
In all actuallity, it also failed due to the people who didn't vote (myself
included.) I personally don't have anything for it or against it. Just the post
that started it all. When rec.models.sf was shot down did anyone do anything
like this? The only thing I saw that was something like this was a post of all
the people who voted yes and no and nothing that pointed fingers.
Later...
PINK FLOYD
THE WALL