DupliColor primer question.
NicsMonkey
answer some question. Thanks.
There are 4 different "primer" that DupliColor carries.
- Primer Surfacer
- Self-Etching Primer
- Primer Sealer
- Filler Primer
1. Which DupliColor primer do you guys use? and why?
2. On the instruction, it says these primer are ideal for metal, wood
and fiberglass...is it real safe to use it on plastic model kits?
3. Is there anything else I should know before I start using DupliColor
primer? I heard people mention about "decant" the primer and thin it
even more with lacquer thinner to give it more "bite" and spray with an
airbrush. Is this a better approach?
I tried Krylon white primer right out of the can just a few days ago,
it's not a bad primer, but I still find it too thick compared to the
Tamiya primer. ("Tamiya Fine Surface Primer White" is very good, but too
expensive) A thin coat was applied but it still cover a lot of the
surface details which no modeler would want to see. So I went and got
myself some DupliColor primers, but I hope to get more information
before I go crazy with it.
Please give me some feedback and experience on using DupliColor Primer.
I have heard good things about it, can't wait to use it.
Peter
Toronto, Canada
Norm Dresner
news:_7Bba.219451$UXa.1...@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
I've used the Testor's Model Master White Primer in the rattle-can for
years under DupliColor with no problems.
Norm
EmilA1944
I've used Duplicolor primer several times over the last year, the
primer-surfacer to be exact.
Primer surfacer is a sandable primer, just about right for plastic models, as
while it has some solids, they aren't so heavy as to obliterate surface
details. Filler Primers, on the other hand, have a lot of solids, and are
intended for deep scratch filling on real cars, but much too much for a model.
Self-etching primers are intended for use on metal, particularly the sheet
steel body panels of real cars, where they actually "bite" into the metal,
creating a much more durable interface between steel and paint. They do work
great when repainting diecast, which is particularly difficult to get ordinary
paints to bond to. The self-etch primer I have used also has the unique
characteristic (among lacquers) of not "ghosting" where body work has been
done, or even where details have been removed.
As for "decanting", I spray rattle can automotive touch-up paints into my
airbrush color jar, and add about 10% acrylic lacquer thinner to it. This is
so I can airbrush the primer in thin coats, with minimal build up, to preserve
surface details (actually, in my experience, it's more important to "shock
proof" the plastic surface, than to actually "prime" it).
Primer Sealer is used when the original paint is unknown, is it enamel, or
lacquer? Sealer will prevent lifting of enamels by lacquers, and probably
won't allow crazing of plastic (actually, I have almost no problem with
crazing!), but it is not sandable like primer-surfacer.
I prefer professional grade, or touch-up automotive primers for all my work.
Art Anderson
NicsMonkey
Thanks for your info Mr. Anderson. I got the Duplicolor Primer Surfacer. So
think I have the right one then. I also got the Primer Sealer, but now that
I know it's not sandable and since I'm not using it to protect any crazying
or lifting, I guess it's pretty much useless to me. Thanks again for the
information. You been very helpful.
PS. do you prefer spray right out of rattle can? or "decanting" it and
spray with airbrush?
Peter
Toronto, Canada
EmilA1944
>think I have the right one then. I also got the Primer Sealer, but now that
>I know it's not sandable and since I'm not using it to protect any crazying
>or lifting, I guess it's pretty much useless to me. Thanks again for the
>information. You been very helpful.
>
>PS. do you prefer spray right out of rattle can? or "decanting" it and
>spray with airbrush?
>
>Peter
>Toronto, Canada
Mr? You mean I have to put on a suit and tie, and be proper?
Yes, if you read up above in my post, you will see that I "decant" all rattle
can paints into my airbrush jar, then add acrylic lacquer thinner to it, to get
even better control over the spray pattern. This includes primers. After all,
why go to all the work of filing, sanding, puttying, and take all manner of
precaution to preserve, even restore surface details, only to "glop" them up
with the inevitable heavy coating of primer a spray can will put out?
I find automotive primers useful for the following:
1. It provides a "guide coat", so that after priming an area where putty work,
filing and sanding has taken place, I can lightly sand the work, leaving primer
in any low spots, file marks, etc. This makes followup filling of the surface
much, much easier.
2. Every putty I have ever used (and that includes most all kinds out there)
is porous to some degree. Primer will seal the sanded surface of putty, even
fill in the minute pores, leaving a surface comparable to the surrounding
plastic, essential for a good paint job, IMHO.
3. It's been my experience (discovered quite by accident) that acrylic lacquer
primers tend to "shock-proof" the styrene surface, by penetrating it slightly,
with only a minute amount of crazing, so fine that I liken it to a simple
"frosting" of the plastic surface, which the solids in the primer actually hide
after about 4-5 passes over the plastic with the airbrush. After the primer
dries, I simply polish it to a satin sheen with a Micro Mesh 3600 or 4000 grit
polishing cloth, using water to keep the cloth free of material. My theory as
to the very limited frosting of the plastic surface is that primer, having no
glossy carriers, dry much faster, so the solvents have less time to do the
dirty deed of crazing.
By airbrushing primer, I control very tightly the amount of primer used, and
the thickness of each coat (BTW, I prefer to spot prime just the areas I've
done any sort of "body work" on, until those areas are sanded and primed to my
satisfaction). I hold off priming the entire model (car bodies, mostly) until
I have finished all body work, so as not to diminish or soften any surface
details. Then, I prime the entire body with the airbrush, again, thinning the
decanted spray-can primer with about 10% acrylic lacquer thinner.
Primer sealers, I think, should prevent crazing on the older plastic kits,
which tended to be made from much harder grades of styrene, also clear styrene,
again which is harder, and very prone to crazing. Also, I've discovered that
some of the Japanese model car kits have bodies made from some grade of styrene
that is very craze-happy, so when I tackle another one of those, primer-sealer
first, then primer surfacer, then finish, and I'd be willing to bet it will
work just fine.
I've used self-etch primer once in the past 6 months, on a diecast model truck,
with a kitbashed closed cab from a styrene kit. There's some JB-Weld Epoxy on
the surface of the model, where plastic and diecast are joined, and catalyzed
putty, both of which are not affected at all by lacquers, thus tending to leave
ghosted lines where styrene ends, and dissimilar materials begin. The self
etch was needed for paint adhesion on the diecast portion, but I sprayed the
entire cab on a whim, and no crazing, no ghosting, and fantastic adhesion all
the way around. I expect the same result when I hit this one with gloss red
Duplicolor acrylic lacquer as well.
Hope this helps!
Art Anderson
Scott Truesdell
NicsMonkey <1...@222.com> wrote:
> There are 4 different "primer" that DupliColor carries.
>
> - Primer Surfacer
> - Self-Etching Primer
> - Primer Sealer
> - Filler Primer
(1) DPP 108 Weld-Through/Cold Galvanized Primer
and
DPP 101 Self-Etching Primer
are for metal. They etch into metal giving superior adhesion to subsequent
primer and color coats. This is not needed for plastic and doesn't adhere
to plastic as well as the sandable filler primers.
(2) The Filler Primers -- DPP 104 Gray, DPP 105 Red, DPP 106 Black -- are
your sandable primers and for plastic they are probably your first coat
over plastic and putty.
(3) DPP 103 (Non-sanding) Primer Sealer is you last coat after the filler
is smooth and before the color coats go on. DupliColor color coats are
"hot" compared to model paint and the underlying plastic and putties need
to be sealed against the melting effect of the hot carriers and solvents.
> 1. Which DupliColor primer do you guys use? and why?
I occasionally use the DPP 103 sealer, but when I want to make sure the
work is perfect (isn't this always?) I use DuPont Vari-Prime.
> 2. On the instruction, it says these primer are ideal for metal, wood
> and fiberglass...is it real safe to use it on plastic model kits?
Seems to be.
I was on a mission to find the best inexpensive primers and paints but I
gave that up. The time and effort expended on a good finish are just not
worth jeopardizing with cheap products. I now use Mr. Surfacer 500 by
Gunze Sangyo as a filler primer. If you buy it direct from Japan it is
cost effective. It sticks VERY well, dries fast and hard, and is very
opaque. Because of its superior qualities it ends up costing me the same
per model as Krylon but is much easier to use and yields superior results.
If I am going to be spraying Tamiya synthetic lacquers for color coats, I
will finish off the priming with Mr. Surfacer 1000, 1000 white, or 1200.
If I am going to be spraying automotive lacquers, I seal with VariPrime.
Another cool thing about Mr. Surfacer is that you can get it in jars and
can thin and airbrush this or even brush it on. Brushing is a perfect way
to spot prime areas you are in the process of working on.
Speaking of color coats, I decant my Tamiya colors so I can airbrush them.
The rattle cans come out too coarse and fast to build up good coverage
without either the color pulling off of the highlights or building up
orange peel. Rattle cans result in about 50% of your cost in paint being
lost to overspray and another 25% lost to sanding off orange peel. When I
am satisfied with the coverage and smoothness (these two are more-or-less
in opposition) I go for one final wet coat. In contrast to the build-up
coats, the wet coat is often sprayed right out of the can. By using a
fast-drying lacquer (Tamiya, DupliColor, House of Kolor, etc.) you can lay
on a ton of paint, then, by keeping the workpiece moving, prevent sags and
runs while the paint flows out smooth and skins over. This technique
minimizes the amount of polishing required to get a mirror finish thus
minimizing the risk of sanding through to the next layer.
> Please give me some feedback and experience on using DupliColor Primer.
> I have heard good things about it, can't wait to use it.
It's OK, but Mr. Surfacer or Tamiya primer is better.
--scott
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