The Quest for an Answer to Paint Application is Over!
Scott Haas
Local hobby shop: "Don't use laquer at all. Laquer wasn't made to coat plastic. Stick to acryllics or enamels." Was that a sales pitch (they didn't carry laquer)!!?
Other local hobby shop (BEST HOBBY SHOP IS SOUTHERN OHIO - Springboro Hobby!!!): "Never tried. But please let me know how it turns out and what you did to accomplish it. I would like to pass the information on to our modeling club."
Local auto parts place: "We don't mess with that stuff! You need to be callin' a body shop - CLICK!!!"
Local body shop: "Wouldn't recommend it. You'll just end up with jello!"
Local hardware store paint department (Lowe's): "No primer exists that will protect plastic while withstanding the harshness of laquer."
Local paint store (Sherwin-Williams): "We don't sell anything that would do the job but try our Commercial Center."
Sherwin-Williams Commercial Center: "Let me ask one of our reps............... We have a commercial primer that can do the job but it comes in 5 gallon drums and must be prepared before using." I told him I just wanted something in a spray can so I could coat a model kit. "Let me check on something else............... Our laquer paint says that it is possible to use an enamel primer as a base but according to our rep, it will not always work." He finished by saying that, in this situation, it will be hit or miss.
SUMMARY: I've come to 2 conclusions. First, the process itself is best performed by doing what most of you have said here before - try it on scrap plastic first! I will add to this by saying that, to get the best test results, try to use plastic from the same kit. Also, unless you really have to have that "Electric Blue" color that came out on the IROC Camaro, stick to enamels or acryllics (in fact, I think Boyd has a color similar to that "Electric Blue"!). Second...
AUTO PARTS PEOPLE ARE R U D E !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:SSH
dan...@airmail.net
AIRBRUSHED. It is the carrier that is harmful to plastics, and this
is mostly lost in airbrushing. I've used them often and have had no
problems at all.
Don_S...@transarc.com
of Scale Auto Enthusiast you'll find at least 10 awesome paint jobs done
with automotive lacquers. SAE had a how to article on doing this about a
year ago - I can dig it up if you like.
What I've heard/remember (I do stick to enamels, but only because I have
yet to master those):
- use a good primer. Plastikote and Krylon seem to be popular, and
are readily available.
- use a "barrier" over the primer. I think Floquil makes such a product
that is called "barrier". I think the speciality paint places that
advertize in SAE also sell similar products. Some people claim to
get away without using a barrier coat.
- If using an airbrush, thin the paint with a high volatility lacquer
thinner - I think this is refered to as a "cold" thinner.
- Spray mist coats to start and let them dry a long time between coats.
- You have to be really careful if you sand through the surface of the
plastic - ie. if you sand off chrome trim, door handles, etc. the
exposed inner plastic is more likely to be attacked by the lacquer.
- A suggestion for testing your plastic/surface prep was to take a piece
of sprue with a part number molded in, sand the number of flat, and
then prime/seal/paint as you would the model.
Don
Mmschatz
(Scott Haas) writes:
>SUMMARY: I've come to 2 conclusions. First, the process itself is best
>performed by doing what most of you have said here before - try it on
scrap
>plastic first! I will add to this by saying that, to get the best test
>results, try to use plastic from the same kit. Also, unless you really
have
>to have that "Electric Blue" color that came out on the IROC Camaro,
stick to
>enamels or acryllics (in fact, I think Boyd has a color similar to that
>"Electric Blue"!).
Here's a trick I learned years ago. If you DUST the first few coats of
laquer paint you can
apply it directly on styrene. The secret here is that the paint is
effectively dry when it hits
the plastic. It's the solvents in the laquer that attack the paint, not
the pigments. What you're
attempting to do is use the dry-misted laquer to provide a base coat.
Once you've got that,
you can apply laquer as heavy as you want. Just be sure there aren't any
bare spots of
plastic exposed after smoothing down the misted coats.
Mike
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Mike Schatz DISCLAIMER: All opinions are mine and
you can't have 'em!
mmsc...@aol.com
"Badges? We don' need no stinking badges!"
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Len Endy
Subject: Re: The Quest for an Answer t
Floquil used to make, maybe they still do, a product called "Barrier" that was
designed as a primer for plastic before applying lacquers.
Most lacquers, including Floquil, can be applied to plastic using an air
brush and misting on very light coats. Most of the solvent evaporates before
it hits the model and the results are great. Oops...I believe that Floquils
current line is enamel based, unlike the old line which was lacquer based.
I have painted four or five different models over the years with that method
and none of the lacquers ever crazed the plastic.
Len
_
Life is just a figment of my imagination...
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SC Lexicat
>AUTO PARTS PEOPLE ARE R U D E
>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yep!
I think a lot of the problem is that most people seem extremely reluctant
to admit they might not have total knowledge of everything. So they
bluster instead.
Simon Craven
Lexicat Ltd
England (also scr...@delphi.com)
Simon Craven
Lexicat Ltd
England (also at scr...@delphi.com)
Stanley Olson
>Some of you may know that I have been asking about how to protect a styrene body from laquer paint. Well, I contacted 7 different sources this afternoon and the answers I received were interesting at best. If you have ever wanted to know how to use laq
uer automotive paint on styrene but were afraid to ask, here are the responses you can expect to get:
>SUMMARY: I've come to 2 conclusions. First, the process itself is best performed by doing what most of you have said here before - try it on scrap plastic first! I will add to this by saying that, to get the best test results, try to use plastic from
the same kit. Also, unless you really have to have that "Electric Blue" color that came out on the IROC Camaro, stick to enamels or acryllics (in fact, I think Boyd has a color similar to that "Electric Blue"!). Second...
>:SSH
Try using a flat white or flat black Water Based
Acrylic Enamel spray paint (ICI is a good brand)
... as a "primer" coat you leave to dry over night .
Given the opportunity to cure completely, it (the primer) should not
be affected by Laquer applied in Thin coats, that are themselves
allowed to cure completely before the next thin coat ...
Use of a Water Based flat Acrylic paint also protects
Vinyl models from being effected by non-waterbased paints
ie. Laquers, Enamels and Oils
--
Stan Olson, Convention Vendor : MOTO MODELS
in...@MOTO.mb.ca : 23-845 DAKOTA STREET
Retail Sales of Resin Cast : SUITE # 272
Vinyl Model Kits & Accessories : Winnipeg, MB R2M 5M3 Canada
Don_S...@transarc.com
William Just replied >
>> - use a good primer. Plastikote and Krylon seem to be popular, and
>> are readily available.
>beware: ive had these primers krinkle the plastic if applied too heavily...
Never seen it happen, but could be... I think these are both actually
lacquer based primers with very volatile solvents. They do seem to lightly
etch styrene, although you can only tell if you strip the paint off.
>> - If using an airbrush, thin the paint with a high volatility lacquer
>> thinner - I think this is refered to as a "cold" thinner.
>i think its a HOT thinner when it is highly violatile...
I just checked the magazine article I pulled most of this info from,
(SAE #88). I remembered right - it is "cold" thinner. I think this
refers to the ambient temperature the thinner is intended for: you use
a more volaitle "cold" thinner when its "cold" in the spray booth, so it
still dries in a reasonable time.
>> - Spray mist coats to start and let them dry a long time between coats.
>lacquer dries almost instantly...thats one reason its so easy to use. its
>enamel that requires long dry time between coats (measured in days rather
>than minutes or hours for lacquer)
The article claims that lacquer dries from the outside in, so even though
the surface looks dry there are still solvents trapped between the surface
and the plastic. Supposedly you can put down a beautiful finish, and
have it go to hell hours later when the trapped solvents make it through
to the paint.
There are two schools of thought on how long to let the lacquer dry
between coats:
- apply about 10 total coats, starting with mist coats about 30 min.
apart and working up to wet coats about 90 min. apart
- apply 10+ total coats, starting with mist coats and working up to
wet coats, but only apply 2 coats/day, about 4 hours apart. After
5 or 6 coats are on, sand with 6000 grit cloth between each days
painting. Keep painting until you're about to lose your mind or
you get the gloss you're looking for.
Personally, I think the later is a bit extreme, but this is what is
recommended by some of the best model car painters - Bob Koronou I think.
Don
William Just
In a previous article, Don_S...@transarc.com () says:
> - use a good primer. Plastikote and Krylon seem to be popular, and
> are readily available.
beware: ive had these primers krinkle the plastic if applied too heavily...
>
> - use a "barrier" over the primer. I think Floquil makes such a product
> that is called "barrier". I think the speciality paint places that
> advertize in SAE also sell similar products. Some people claim to
> get away without using a barrier coat.
never used one. in fact, might use the barrier between the plastic and
the primer, but dont know why youd use it between primer and laquer, since
the primer should serve to protect the plastic from the lacquer.
>
> - If using an airbrush, thin the paint with a high volatility lacquer
> thinner - I think this is refered to as a "cold" thinner.
i think its a HOT thinner when it is highly violatile...
>
> - Spray mist coats to start and let them dry a long time between coats.
lacquer dries almost instantly...thats one reason its so easy to use. its
enamel that requires long dry time between coats (measured in days rather
than minutes or hours for lacquer)
>
> - You have to be really careful if you sand through the surface of the
> plastic - ie. if you sand off chrome trim, door handles, etc. the
> exposed inner plastic is more likely to be attacked by the lacquer.
true. re-seal with barrier and or primer by brush over the exposed
plastic...hopefully this exposed section will be small...
this has been my experience, anyway...
--
one love
rasta4I
jah bill