ejection sequence of the A-7E??
Erik Peter Meijer
Is the canopy jettisoned or is the pilot going to be ejected through
the canopy??
Erik Peter Meijer
Steve Collins
Don't know about the E, but if I remember correctly, on the A-7D, the
canopy was _supposed_ to jettison prior to seat firing. However, just
in case, the seat had canopy breakers mounted to the top.
Steve
Michael Benolkin
the seat. If the canopy jams, there are breakers on the top of the ejection
seat to penetrate the canopy.
--
Respectfully,
Michael Benolkin
tac...@tacair-press.com
Owner, TacAir Publications
http://tacair-press.com/tacair.shtml
Webmaster, IPMS/Albuquerque Scale Modelers
http://tacair-press.com/asm.shtml
Webmaster, Military Aviation Research
http://tacair-press.com/research.shtml
Senior Editor, Internet Modeler
http://www.internetmodeler.com
.....
Robert Hughes
"through-the-glass" (no canopy jettison prior to seat firing) ejection method.
This included both ESCAPAC and later SJU-8/A versions. At some point in the
aircraft's development, a pigtail of det cord was fitted to the inner surface of
the canopy over and extending slightly forward of the headbox. This was fired at
the same time as the strap inertia reels and extendible canopy breakers (if
fitted), and was intended to make the breakout pattern somewhat more predictable
and reduce the chances of adverse loading to the head during the sequence.
This method saved 300 to 500 ms over the canopy-removal ejection systems, and this
was considered to have a very positive impact on survivability in shipboard
operations.
I vaguely remember flying some early A-7B's that must have used a canopy removal
system prior to egress... they had a "dongle" (a 2" gray ball on a slightly
flexible stalk) alongside the left headbox, and I believe this was intended to
disable the seat-canopy interconnect system, so in case of damage to the canopy or
failure of the jettison system to remove it, you could pull the dongle and then
fire the second initiator handle (either face curtain or lower handle, whichever
one you hadn't tried the first time) to then go through the glass as a backup
mode.
Hawkeye Hughes
Michael Benolkin wrote in message <7gsdgf$d2$1...@hume.nmia.com>...
Phil Brandt
<old...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Erik Peter Meijer wrote:
>>
>> Could anyone tell my how the ejection out of a A-7E Corsair II goes??
>>
>> Is the canopy jettisoned or is the pilot going to be ejected through
>> the canopy??
Don't know of any U.S. fighter which has the primary ejection mode
going through the canopy. Ahh, but then there's the Vark, where we get
to blow out "with" the canopy. Bondo sure liked not having to worry
about flailing or face injuries injuries during high speed ejections.
I'll never forget seeing a WSO friend during my recce days in Idaho.
He had stepped over the side high speed...in a hailstorm and still
walked with a cane two years later.
Bondo Phil
IPMS 14091
LCDR1635
>going through the canopy.
Ejection is through the canopy on the AV-8B Harrier. I was also that way on
the A-6 Intruder (no longer in service). The rationale for that mode of
ejection was the sliding canopy. The concern was that the canopy might not
jettison completely and the canopy bow (the steel front rim of the canopy)
would obstruct ejection.
John Eckhardt
MODEL HAWK
2. Oh s#*t
3. Pull lever
4. BANG!
5. Pop (if all goes right)
6. KaThunk, Ugh!
Sorry..........couldn't resist :-)
Happy modeling; Modelhawk
Noli non legitime carborundum est!
Wonder who Modelhawk is? Check out my HOME PAGE and find out:
http://members.aol.com/MODELHAWK/Modelhawk.index.html
K. Hagerup
> Don't know of any U.S. fighter which has the primary ejection mode
> going through the canopy.
In the EA-6B, immediate ejections (the most common kind) were through
the glass. Canopies were only jettisoned in controlled ejections.
Also, if anyone ejected throgh the glass, everyone had to, due to the
telescoping rod possibly fouling the canopy if the remaining crew tried
to jettison it.
Ken (VAQ-138, VAQ-129, and VAQ-139)
Michael Nott
buddy store. The Viking crew goes through the canopies because they
don't open. A length of SMDC encircles the fronts and loosens them
before the seats go through. A piece of SMDC also blows the leading edge
fillet of each wing over the back seat canopies, but the crew goes
through the plastic with no other assist than the "ears" atop the seats
and thigh supports.
Mike Nott
Never had to, thankfully.
Phil Brandt wrote:
>
> On Thu, 06 May 1999 06:55:34 -0700, Steve Collins
> <old...@primenet.com> wrote:
>
> >Erik Peter Meijer wrote:
> >>
> >> Could anyone tell my how the ejection out of a A-7E Corsair II goes??
> >>
> >> Is the canopy jettisoned or is the pilot going to be ejected through
> >> the canopy??
>
> Don't know of any U.S. fighter which has the primary ejection mode
David Campbell
is a story of a nugget who was qaulifying in the A7 and had to do an
UNDERWATER ejection!
that site is definitely worth bookmarking
David
Phil Brandt
>>Don't know of any U.S. fighter which has the primary ejection mode
>>going through the canopy.
>
>Ejection is through the canopy on the AV-8B Harrier. I was also that way on
>the A-6 Intruder (no longer in service). The rationale for that mode of
>ejection was the sliding canopy. The concern was that the canopy might not
>jettison completely and the canopy bow (the steel front rim of the canopy)
>would obstruct ejection.
Thanks for the update. I'm sure the through-the-canopy scheme has
worked lotsa times, but there's just something makes this WSO's neck
hairs stand on end when I think about punching through that hard
stuff.
Bondo Phil
IPMS 14091
John Alger
both the TA-7C and the A-7E, the primary ejection was through the canopy. There was
nothing to "blow the canopy". This was a result of lessons learned with the A-4 series
in which the canopy had to depart prior to ejection (particulary in the TA-4). If the
canopy did not depart there was no way out. I know at least three guys personally who
did not make it because of this method.
When the ejection handle was pulled in the A-7, the first thing which happened was the
canopy breakers extended (either side of the headrest). The rocket fired and the seat
went throught the glass. In the TA-7, there was a shaped charge which shattered the
canopy first. This can be seen in photos as a jagged line around the top of the
canopy.
I have mentioned before in this group that the resin ESCAPAC seats are the A-7
variety. They have the canopy breakers on the headrest. If you use these seats in ANY
A-4, you need to file these off. NO A-4 had canopy breakers. EVER!
John Alger
CDR USNR(ret)
TA-4J/A-7E/TA-7C
Michael Benolkin
ANG A-7D that lost a canopy in-flight during a low-level training mission.
At that time, they still had not determined what had caused the canopy to
leave the aircraft, but according to the after-action summaries, (if I
recall correctly) an unrelated malfunction caused the egress system to
continue and fire the ejection seat. According to the pilot, one moment he
was doing his low-level profile and the next he was in the chute. I had
assumed (keyword here) that the egress systems in the A-7D and A-7E were
similar. Of course what John Alger points out makes perfect sense because
every second counts when trying to get out of an airplane that is (for
whatever reason) about to go off the deck and into the water.
WSchurr
early 70s (I think), the USAF removed the face curtain handle on the Escapacs
on it's jets leaving the slot in the front of the seat where the assymbly was
housed. I was told by one of my egress specialists that some guy initiated
ejection accidently when he got entangled with it. The Air Force never liked
the face curtain idea anyway and only used the face curtain as a secondary
method of initiating ejection on F4s too.
Bill
Michael Benolkin
That AZ ANG A-7D lost the canopy (cause unknown) but the slipstream nabbed
the face curtain and ejected the pilot. It was soon afterwards that AZ, NM
and other A-7D units removed the face curtains from their seats to prevent
the loss of another perfectly good aircraft. As I recall, the pilotless A-7D
remained airborne for several minutes before impacting some rising terrain.
WSchurr
I knew it was because of a real bizzar occurence!!! I just couldn't bloody
remember. That's what happens when you pass 40 and sniff resin dust, thinner
and Lord knows what else when assembling models!!!
Cheers
Bill
Frank Tauss
me a story about when he was in the service during Vietnam. It seems
that some of the aircraft techs liked to toke up in the cockpit with the
canopy closed, either to contain the smell or to trap the smoke plus the
O2 for an enhanced high. One of these chuckleheads apparently tripped
the ejection seat in his stupor. He went through the canopy, not
strapped in, no helmet. Very messy.
Frank Tauss
ALKMSK
ejects are for going through the perspex without canopy eject! A6"s still do
it, because of the side by seating.
With Respect James @ The vilege Hobby Shop
Village Hobbies
2011 Genesee Street
Utica NY 13501
Ph:315-733-0611
Fax:315-738-9478
E-mail:VilHo...@aol.com
"Experienced hobbiest offering exceptional service and quality merchandise."
Michael Nott
refreshers (Navy, BTW) I was told that the upper ejection handle, or
face curtain, was the primary method for two reasons. First, it helped
position the neck and spine correctly to better take the G forces from
the onset of the ejection, and secondly, the face curtain helped prevent
the initial wind blast as you entered the slipstream from taking your
helmet off. The lower handle was always referred to as the secondary
handle, to be used as a quick response method. Obviously this advice was
more for pilots whose hands were usually closer to their laps, for one
reason or another.
Mike Nott
Michael Benolkin
strange ejection seat accident. The WSO was strapping into the seat, the
crew chief perched over the side helping him. The pilot climbed the ladder,
straddled the cockpit, then stepped down on the seat. The seat went off.
What saved the pilot's life was that the canopy did not budge (at first). As
the seat lofted him (still standing on it), the canopy deflected him forward
and he landed 50 or so feet ahead of the aircraft. The crewchief and WSO
received major burns as the seat continued up and through the canopy. All
three guys were pretty badly messed up and were airlifted to a properly
equipped hospital. They all made it okay, but that incident was a major
reinforcement of the dangers of ejection seats!
Phil Brandt
<tac...@tacair-press.com> wrote:
>The pilot climbed the ladder, straddled the cockpit, then stepped down on the seat. The seat went off.
Hmmmm......as I recall from twenty-seven years ago, the interdictor
block's gotta be gone--it's connected by cable to the canopy, for you
non-Fox Four folks--before the banana links can pivot to strike the
initiator. All I can say is that moi and lotsa other F-4 crews
routinely stepped on the seat before stepping down to the cockpit
floor. Of course, before you even think about entering, you're
supposed to check (RTFCL!) a bunch of items ....such as drogue gun
safety pin, interdictor block in place and banana links clear.
Bondo Phil
IPMS 14091
WSchurr
over the life of the Phantom.
OXMORON1
>The Air Force killed over 110 people in ground accidents related to the MB
>seat
>over the life of the Phantom
The Air Farce may have lost 110 people killed in ground accidents with the MB
seat, but the Air Force didn't kill them. Most of the cases can be traced to
carelessness or other forms of stupidity. Failure to RTFCL got a bunch of
people in all types of seats.
Oxmoron1
Captain OD
F-4 pukes, I agree the seat was the "step-ladder" in and out of the beast. You
may have been "fast" in the rest of the pre-flight, but you always made certain
it was "seat-safe" if your butt was crossing the rail to get i, even more so in
the A-4. Until you were secure in it, it was treated like a fully loaded gun
in a game of Russian Roulette. Bob O'Donovan.
captain OD
DangerAtom
reason on an F-15A. A/C was parked and no one was anywhere near it. Canopy
just popped and the separation rod extended, but the seat didn't go. Really
strange. Don't know if they ever found out a cause.
In the words of Fred Ward (as Gus Grissom) "The hatch just blew".
--
D.A.
Rama Lama Chug-a-Lug
Keeper of the Temple Keg Tap
Phil Brandt <f1...@prismnet.com> wrote in message
news:373edf3c...@news.prismnet.com...
JVT7532
>
>John Alger
>CDR USNR(ret)
>TA-4J/A-7E/TA-7C
You are right there CDR, as a seat mech. on the A-4C to the A-4M I can tell
everyone that all the big changes where in zero zero capabilities. The scooter
was the best damned plane I ever worked on.
All the Best
Jon Theisen
SGT USMC 67-71
John Alger
JVT7532 wrote:
> everyone that all the big changes where in zero zero capabilities. The scooter
> was the best damned plane I ever worked on.
>
And the best I ever flew! Mr. Heinemann knew his stuff when he drew this one. Was a
damn fun bird.
John
Joe Hegedus
the A-4? Seems that we could use a bit of that type of common sense now!
I trust you know that VT-7 is standing down and getting out of the
Scooter business at the end of September? That will leave VC-8 as the
last USN A-4 operator.
Joe
Bob LaBouy
I am a rank amatuer on this newsgroup thing. I saw both your notes and
couldn't see that they actually were directed to the "ejection sequence
of the A-7" ? Did I miss the original notes/questions?
However, I am a reasonably interested modeler and especially interested
in the A-7 and actually have a rebuilt ESCAPE seat from one sitting
about 10 feet from me. I went to the work of preparing an article on
the ejection seat and some other related infor a few years ago in the
thought that some other deranged modeler might be interested. I have
only met one other person so delighted. I did an article which I ran in
the Seattle Chapter Newsletter and if you'll tell me what you're
interested in, I can possible supply you with a copy of that rag or
shoot you some of the drawings I worked up (mostly scanned and
shamelessly stolen from NAVAIR pub's)?
As a further aside. The word "never" is pretty strong. While
rebuilding a TA-4J a few years ago at the Arlington Field facility north
of Everett. The crew who did that job, chose to leave the canopy
breakers active (or at least in place) on the ESCAPAC seats they
installed in that a/c. Both seats were rebuilt by off duty types from
the AIMD shop at Whidbey Island. I really don't know why, but they were
on the seats when I visited and saw the seats just prior to installation.
Just in case someone is interested.
Bob LaBouy
DangerAtom
> I am a rank amatuer on this newsgroup thing. I saw both your notes and
> couldn't see that they actually were directed to the "ejection sequence
> of the A-7" ? Did I miss the original notes/questions?
Bob, that's a common anomaly with this newsgroup. After the first two or
three replies to the original post, we tend to wander off in a different
direction, without changing the subject line.
> As a further aside. The word "never" is pretty strong. While
> rebuilding a TA-4J a few years ago at the Arlington Field facility north
> of Everett. The crew who did that job, chose to leave the canopy
> breakers active (or at least in place) on the ESCAPAC seats they
> installed in that a/c. Both seats were rebuilt by off duty types from
> the AIMD shop at Whidbey Island. I really don't know why, but they were
> on the seats when I visited and saw the seats just prior to installation.
BTW: could these seats have been pulled from a different type aircraft,
cause I've never seen A-4's with breakers on the seats either. And was this
on an active aircraft or on a museum/static display aircraft?
(See what I mean about not changing the subject line? {well, a minor change}
But we're still not talking about the ejection sequence of the A-7E.) :-)
--
D.A.
Rama Lama Chug-a-Lug
Keeper of the Temple Keg Tap
IPMS(USA) #34139
Joe Hegedus
>
> John & Joe,
>
> I am a rank amatuer on this newsgroup thing. I saw both your notes and
> couldn't see that they actually were directed to the "ejection sequence
> of the A-7" ? Did I miss the original notes/questions?
>
Yes, the original question was about whether or not the A-7 ejected the
pilot through the canopy or if the canopy was jettisoned first. The
content morphed to A-4's somewhere along the way. We're funny that way
here at times, the subject often has no relevance to content after the
first several posts on a subject. Of course, there are exceptions, and
at times the subject gets changed to reflect divergence. Not in this
case, though. :-)
Joe