BALLS pictures
Jeff Taylor
that did not become part of the article. Enjoy.
http://www.lokiresearch.com/photos.asp
-JT
Jerry Irvine
Jeff Taylor <sp...@dev.null> wrote:
Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
Calvinball on rules.
BTW Nice flights!
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com
My articles valuable? Donate at iKobo.com c/o my email.
FlyEmFast
wrote:
>Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
>is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
>Calvinball on rules.
Every stinking thread on RMR gets ruined because of Jerry's personal
agenda.
No wonder you get blackballed Jerry. You're a pain in the ass.
Steve
Mfreptiles
>is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
>Calvinball on rules.
sigh....Loki sells motor hardware....not loads.
Mike Fisher
Jerry Irvine
FlyEmFast <jus...@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
No wonder I am a pain in the ass, I am blackballed.
Jerry Irvine
mfrep...@aol.com (Mfreptiles) wrote:
So you are saying Neil made the 152mm load for the Cow?
Jeff Taylor
>
> Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
> is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
> Calvinball on rules.
>
> BTW Nice flights!
Thanks Jerry!
By the way, the commercial sales were only hardware. I've never sold
any propellant. I did not make the load for The Cow Rocket. It's ok to
be a watch dog, but please check your facts before throwing out the
accusations. Not doing so makes you look simple.
-Jeff Taylor
Jerry Irvine
Jeff Taylor <sp...@dev.null> wrote:
> Jerry Irvine wrote:
> >
> > Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
> > is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
> > Calvinball on rules.
> >
> > BTW Nice flights!
>
> Thanks Jerry!
>
> By the way, the commercial sales were only hardware.
Your website seems to imply otherwise on first glance.
I see a lot of rocket liftoff images on the homepage and no hardware
images.
Jerry
Jeff Taylor
>>
>>>Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
>>>is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
>>>Calvinball on rules.
>>>
>>>BTW Nice flights!
>>
>>Thanks Jerry!
>>
>>By the way, the commercial sales were only hardware.
>
>
> Your website seems to imply otherwise on first glance.
>
> I see a lot of rocket liftoff images on the homepage and no hardware
> images.
>
> Jerry
>
apology for your false accusation ('cause I know that isn't coming).
- JT
FlyEmFast
wrote:
>I see a lot of rocket liftoff images on the homepage and no hardware
>images.
Actually Jerry you screwed up here and you owe Jeff an apology.
Thanks again for ruining yet another decent thread on RMR.
Steve
J.A. Michel
closer before you started the so-Jerry-typical-old-hat TRA flamejob, you
might have caught on to that.
--
Joe Michel
NAR 82797 L1
"Jerry Irvine" <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:01rocket-CDF2B1...@corp.supernews.com...
Bullpup
not sell reloads. Click on 'products' produces a list of what he sells.
You made a grossly inaccurate statement. Be a man and admit you were wrong.
"Jerry Irvine" <01ro...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:01rocket-4B173A...@corp.supernews.com...
Jerry Irvine
"Bullpup" <wa...@sunset.net> wrote:
> Be a man and admit you were wrong.
A forced apology is not a valuable apology.
The record was corrected by the principal and that should suffice.
There are plenty of examples of TRA-EX rule "jerry-mandering" without
relying on the one I attempted to raise (apparantly in error).
There still has not been discussion of where the loads DID come from
that are on the page at issue. For example are they ALL TRA members with
NO commercial activities including loaning propellant or renting it for
money?
Obviously that would not be illegal or even unadviseable, only against
TRA-EX calvinball rules.
> > > Jerry Irvine wrote:
> > > >
> > > > {potentially erroneous comments] ... more evidence of TRA
Phil Stein
be a lot more people than Jerry bitching.
Phil Stein
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:07:12 -0600, FlyEmFast <jus...@sbcglobal.com>
wrote:
Phil Stein
Jerry Irvine
Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> No - if you got blackballed for being a pain in the ass, there would
> be a lot more people than Jerry bitching.
Check the archives. There were but they got tired of inaction and left.
THEY voted with their feet.
Also when I was originally blackballed circa 1991-2 the internet was far
from popular. IIRC there effectively was not even a web yet.
Furthermore the very logic of your statement does not pass the smell
test.
And if you use Tripoli's own logic against them, where there's smoke
there's fire. Except against Tripoli there are records and proof.
Just Jerry
>
> Phil Stein
>
> On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 10:07:12 -0600, FlyEmFast <jus...@sbcglobal.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 07:46:14 -0800, Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Given those links clearly show commercial sales and that Loki Research
> >>is not a TRA approved manufacturer, this is yet more evidence of TRA
> >>Calvinball on rules.
> >
> >
> >Every stinking thread on RMR gets ruined because of Jerry's personal
> >agenda.
> >
> >No wonder you get blackballed Jerry. You're a pain in the ass.
> >
> >Steve
>
> Phil Stein
--
Bob Kaplow
> No - if you got blackballed for being a pain in the ass, there would
> be a lot more people than Jerry bitching.
Others have been blackballed for being a pain in the ass. Vosecek. Cato.
McLaughlin. Myself. And I'm sure plenty of others.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD"
>>> To reply, remove the TRABoD! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf
www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org
Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html
Jerry Irvine
kapl...@encompasserve.org.TRABoD (Bob Kaplow) wrote:
> In article <oblctvcnvb2bci8ts...@4ax.com>, Phil Stein
> <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> writes:
> > No - if you got blackballed for being a pain in the ass, there would
> > be a lot more people than Jerry bitching.
>
> Others have been blackballed for being a pain in the ass. Vosecek. Cato.
> McLaughlin. Myself. And I'm sure plenty of others.
>
Pain in the ass at TRA is not defined as rude or annoying per se. It
usually involves being witness to a crime or tort the result of which is
you are discredited with a monologue in the propoganda rag of TRA and
removed so you are allowed to be removed from meetings where you might
be so bold as to testify to your witness accounts of the crimes or torts.
Cato was removed and resigned simultasneously as the letters crossed in
the mail !!!
I was removed for approximately what I witnessed the TRA President
himself doing (TRA justice I presume). And he was also the prime
"prosecutor" on the tribunal to review my reinstatement request 10 years
later after my 3 year removal had long since ended. He of course
declined it. Conflicts of interest are a GOAL of TRA.
The removed people became rude YEARS after they were removed as a means
to force attention on the problem. As we now all know no amount of
attention brought on problems at TRA results in either addressing them
or of course solving them.
Vosecek was Treasurer (kiss of death).
Cato was the first accurate TMT chair AND personally got TRA listed as
an AHJ in NFPA-1127, etc. (kiss of death).
Founding Prefect Irvine was the largest launch host and member generator
(kiss of death).
Kaplow wasan early Prefect and rules nazi (kiss of death).
McLaughlin was a Prefect and actual RPIA by lawyerly informing TRA BOD
of all the laws and rules they were breaking with cites and evidence
(kiss of death).
Price was Kelly's neighbor and friend and witnessed skimming and other
alleged crimes and torts first hand (kiss of death).
One guy was removed for pipe bombs at Black Rock or something (the only
valid removal) He probably has been reinstated :)
Jerry
Brian Elfert
>There still has not been discussion of where the loads DID come from
>that are on the page at issue. For example are they ALL TRA members with
>NO commercial activities including loaning propellant or renting it for
>money?
Some of those pictures are from MDRA launches. They have their own
insurance, allow certified and EX at the same launch, and don't belong to
TRA or NAR. Their rules may very well allow an individual to make a motor
for someone else.
Doesn't Tripoli EX allow use of an EX motor if the person who made it is
part of the team launching the rocket? The person who made the motor does
not need to be the person who made the rocket.
Brian Elfert
David Weinshenker
> Doesn't Tripoli EX allow use of an EX motor if the person who made it is
> part of the team launching the rocket? The person who made the motor does
> not need to be the person who made the rocket.
No, but I think the person who made the motor has to be a TRA member.
That way, as long as TRA refuses to renew Jerry's membership, they
can keep everyone from using "Jerry motors" at "EX" launches. :)
-dave w
Phil Stein
You fail to realize that I live in the present. 10 years ago I was to
busy inventing the internet to be playing with rockets. Also things
at TRA have changed a little since your pal Brucie is no longer king.
Phil Stein
On Tue, 09 Dec 2003 16:16:49 -0800, Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net>
wrote:
Phil Stein
Jerry Irvine
David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
And the propellant? :)
>
> -dave w
Phil Stein
>
>Some of those pictures are from MDRA launches. They have their own
>insurance, allow certified and EX at the same launch, and don't belong to
>TRA or NAR. Their rules may very well allow an individual to make a motor
>for someone else.
>
>Doesn't Tripoli EX allow use of an EX motor if the person who made it is
>part of the team launching the rocket?
> The person who made the motor does
>not need to be the person who made the rocket.
True.
>
>Brian Elfert
One thing about MDRA is that they do not want motors used if they come
from a source that might be shipping improperly. The club officers
have been very clear about wanting everything being done properly.
Phil Stein
Phil Stein
RayDunakin
<< Doesn't Tripoli EX allow use of an EX motor if the person who made it is
part of the team launching the rocket? The person who made the motor does not
need to be the person who made the rocket. >>
That is correct. Also, all members of the team must be TRA members.
Jerry Irvine
Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> Jerry,
>
> You fail to realize that I live in the present. 10 years ago I was to
> busy inventing the internet to be playing with rockets. Also things
> at TRA have changed a little since your pal Brucie is no longer king.
Nobody can fight THAT logic :)
Brucie
King of HPR magazine
King of TRA HQ
King of NFPA committee TRA seat
King of lawsuit committee
Naaaaaaaa, he has no power now that he has been removed for his
financial and behavioral irregularities :)
From da King:
THICK OR THIN?
From Bruce Kelly
This will be a long editorial, but I hope you will take the time to read
it.
It is about this magazine and will answer questions you may have about
production, distribution, and content.
It has been several years since I have talked about this magazine, about
how readers can contribute articles, and what makes HPR what it is.
[ why would it be severalyearsifitispublished9 timesa yearfor10 years?]
I
received
some comments after the last two issues, best represented by three
letters
(or e-mail messages) directed to me. I will use those letters--unedited--to
help
explain what this magazine was, what it is, and what it may become. Since
the
authors of these letters did not give me permission to use their names, I
will
preserve their anonymity.
First Letter
Bruce,
I received the March issue of HPR magazine and please allow me to offer
my approval [for] a job well done. I renewed my subscription this year
after
a
one-year hiatus and I have not regretted it one bit. While any rocketeer
would
like a four hundred page issue every month, I realize being in the
graphic
arts industry myself, that it is, after all, a business.
More importantly, that content that I now see in your publication is more
poignant particularly when juxtaposed with the other HPR related
magazine.
Perhaps it always was. Maybe after all the distractions of the past year
or
two
that I've distilled what I want out of rocketry into its essence and
found
what it's really all about. We all like the flash, sound and fury of hot
projects
flying, but there's so much more to it than that. To paraphrase Vince
Lombardi, "The will to win is not nearly so important as the will to
prepare
to win."
What disturbs me is perhaps my perception of the hobby becoming "more
show and less go." We see lots of video and pictures of huge projects
going
up
only to lose arguments to the laws of physics. Sure it's great to be on
TV,
but
I somehow get the sense that there are some who feel that that is the
goal
rather than the product of a job well done. What makes for good video
doesn't
necessarily make for good rocketry.
Without being too melodramatic, I found this issue [March] to be
particularly well done. It lays it all out there--successes and failures
exposed for
all the world to see. So everyone thinks, "Geez these guys are
certifiably
dangerous!" Then you add your articles and snap everything back into
perspective.
Those among us who unfortunately came late into Tripoli are well advised
to
read the "Balls 101" article and take it to heart. Those among us who
actually
want to learn something would be well advised to pick apart the report
from
the
"Balls 2002" article (and the rest of it for that matter) and
respectfully
learn from those who dared to push it beyond the edge. Those who would
wish
to
see more regulation placed on this hobby we cherish--and the very
livelihood
of
several others who cherish it even more--are very well advised to read
your
follow-up article about the proper time and place for these types of
events.
Lastly, those who gave you so much grief in the past should recognize the
work you did on behalf of us all. As Tripoli grew and became more and
more
diverse, satisfying all the members must have been quite onerous. So the
issues
with the ATFE and insurance are thrown in on top of that and, well, I
feel
privileged that people such as yourself were running the show. So thanks.
It's
very good to see that you still have the passion.
Personally, I still have the dream to participate in Balls. I may have
come a long way, but there's still much to learn before I become a Les
Derkovitz. Maybe I never will be. You see, I have this strong desire to
get
my stuff
back, so it may be some time! Right now, I am working on perfecting the
structures and recovery systems of those 40,000-foot projects that
everyone
wants to
fly so that when you report my flight, it had better be good news! Hey I
made
it halfway so far...
So from a grateful rocketeer, thanks and keep it coming! (Subscriber from
Illinois)
[Excuse generator on full. Content weak at best. Frequency poor. Page
count irregular yet this moron finds it as good news? No wonder he is a
subscriber and Kellyball published this myopic letter!]
Second Letter
Bruce,
I just received the most recent HPR issue. Frankly, I am very shocked and
displeased with the last two HPR issues I have received. They are but a
skeleton of what the subscriber/members are due and should expect.
Through the years of getting too few monthly issues, I was somewhat
understanding due to all of your duties competing for your time. Being
[As if demands on time SHOULD effect the magazine schedule. Ever hear of
delegation?]
TRA
president, HPR publisher, LDS member, BATF dealings and a family man left
precious
little time for anything. How you even managed to get the issues out you
did,
I'll never know.
I listened (in one ear/out the other) as people ragged on about getting
shorted on HPR magazines. It is very admirable how you weathered all the
"garbage" that has been thrown at you the last couple of years. I would
have
thrown
my hands up years ago.
So, I tried [to] "cut you some slack" because of all I knew was demanded
of you. However, I feel that Club members did come out on the short end
of
the
stick. It was my hope that after you relinquished some of your duties the
HPR
magazine would get back on an even track.
I am usually one not to ever complain, even when it is blatantly clear it
is warranted. I have to speak out to you because of how strongly I feel
about
how anemic these issues are. They are barely a shadow of what they should
be.
Is this how future issues are going to be? If so, I will not renew my
subscription. If that means not renewing my TRA membership, so be it.
That
is a
very extreme statement for me to make.
I do feel that if you continue to only produce what is, in my opinion, a
substandard magazine, it might be advisable to let someone else tackle
the
job.
Bruce, I hope you take this letter with the intent it is written. I have
the utmost respect for you and what you have done for the TRA and the HPR
hobby. (Former (?) subscriber from Texas)
Third Letter
Dear Mr. Kelly,
I'm editor of education magazines: Teach! -- for professionals and Learn!
--
for parents. I found (and bought) the February edition of High Power
Rocketry in Borders in Singapore. I really enjoyed reading it.
[One shot newsstand buyer insulated from the foibles of bad schedule
maintenaince and crappy content as they can leave those on the shelf if
they want, and do. This sort of buyer is happy to get ANY magazine on
the subject at all.]
Sadly I don't think anyone here could take up rocketry. Singapore is a
crowded city-state, about the same size as Rhode Island, that contains
Southeast
Asia's busiest hub airport plus a few military air bases.
But I still think our readers would be interested in reading an article
on the subject. Would it be possible to buy an article and photographs
from
your magazine on the Rockets for Schools meet in May?
Also, do you know of any scholarships that might allow students from Asia
to visit the United States and take part in such events?
Hope to hear from you soon. (From an educator in Singapore)
Valid Points
Each of these letters are different, however, they represent most of the
comments we have received these past few weeks. The first letter (from
Illinois) was very encouraging while the second letter (from Texas) was
personally
disappointing. The third letter (from Singapore) illustrates how far
reaching
around the globe we are and what impact the magazine has through this
kind
of
distribution. And, as we reach new readers, it also illustrates the need
for
very basic articles from time to time.
Each letter has validity, but I want to mainly focus on the first two
letters. Our friend from Illinois understands what I tried to accomplish
in
the
March issue. It's as if he read my mind. Conversely, our friend from
Texas,
obviously a long-time supporter of HPR magazine, understands why things
were
rough these past few years but he does not like the way things are right
now. As
you continue to read, you will see how he has the power to make HPR
magazine
what he wants it to be--and so do you!
HPR Magazine -- What It Was
In the beginning when founded, first as the Tripolitan and later as High
Power Rocketry, this has been a magazine about rocketry. It started as a
newsletter covering model and experimental activities of a small
Pittsburgh
club.
Then, as the hobby evolved, it grew from a four-page newsletter into a
magazine
with "high power" as its main focus. However, it was still about
rocketry--all
kinds of rocketry. For they are all related, one growing out of the
other.
Over the years the content evolved in other ways, to include several
"regular" columns, including Manufacturer's News, Product Reviews, and
Section
Soundings. Other "specialized" features followed, such as "Rocket Art"
which
we
ran for as long as the author could produce the articles for it. (He is
now
working on more!)
The first magazines also included many pages of ads, both paid and
donated space for launch ads.
Articles ran the gamut: low and hi-tech, construction, how-to, special
projects, aerospace, NASA, and high power launch coverage--a favorite.
HPR Magazine -- What It Is
In principal, HPR is still the same. I say in principal because some of
the things we have been used to in the magazine have been missing for a
while.
Let's review some of those things and I'll explain why they have been
absent
and my plan to bring most of them back.
Commercial Advertising--When I brought the magazine back onto a regular
publishing schedule last July,
[What? Basedon what criterion? "In principal"?]
I purposely kept advertising at a bare
minimum.
[Because nobody would send you their money. You know what real magazines
do when they have issues and problems? They run the ads gratis or "bill
on delivery" not eliminate them altogether. Advertisers same. If you had
no ads it is because vendors refused to advertise in a crooked operation
with bad public perception.]
After
being out of production for a while,
[Was this while, "When I brought the magazine back onto a regular
publishing schedule last July "?]
it was important for me to get some
"articles" out quickly. Since then, I have let advertisers know they are
welcome
to advertise.
However, as the number of paid ads continues to increase, we will be
limiting advertising to only eight pages per issue (not including
covers).
One
complaint we had over the last two years is that there were too many
ads, so
this
is why we've placed limits. The ad content right now has not reached this
limit.
Advertising is a matter of choice. If you want to see more of them in
HPR, you can encourage the people you do business with to run them. But
if
they
don't, it just leaves more space for articles. Either way, you win.
Launch Ads--After 9/11 and the AeroTech fire the following month, the
economy
was as bad for us as it was for most of you. The launch ads in past
issues
were "complimentary." They were run for free, at my expense. I had to cut
back to
keep the magazine in the black. This was a business decision. Last fall I
e-mailed Prefects telling them I would restore the service of running
free
launch
ads if someone would volunteer to collect and prepare them for each
issue. I
did not have any takers until recently. Dale Windsor has stepped forward
and
offered to do this job, so you can send your launch ads to him. In other
words,
this service is about to return, at my expense, and thanks to Dale's
volunteer efforts.
Prefecture Listing--It's back! Beginning with this issue, we have a
listing
of
all Prefects and their contact information (see page 7). It has been
reformatted to fit the new magazine size, but it's still free!
Manufacturer's News--This column has been put aside because the editor of
this
column has not sent us anything. We will eventually return MN, but I
cannot
tell you right now when that will be. When it does return, we will have
one
major policy change. Only those who advertise in HPR (even if
occasionally)
will
be allowed to have their products mentioned in this column.
Product Reviews--This column has also returned (see page 14). I had one
old
one in my files that we did not run. It has been updated and re-edited
for
this
issue. Bruce Kilby, the column editor, will have new items to review in
the
near future.
Section Soundings--This column as presented before will never return. We
are
in the process of redesigning SS to focus on Prefecture activities. Look
for
it
in the near future.
Articles--Now we are getting to the heart of the matter. Even in the
so-called
"glory days," some people complained about the articles. They would say,
"not
enough" tech articles, or "not enough" launch articles, or "not enough"
of
this or of that.
Not everyone will be pleased with every article we produce. That is just
the way it is. We are a multi-faceted hobby, where each member is
attracted
by
a particular aspect of Rocketry. That is what makes us so exciting and so
unique, and that is why every article cannot appeal to everyone.
There are some who complain about the NASA reprints we occasionally
produce. But hold on! We get as much praise for running them. Critics of
those
reprints say, "I already know about that stuff," or, "Those [articles]
are
available on the Internet."
Good grief, if we use that logic, we would only publish one article ever
about rocket construction and tell everyone who wants a construction
article
to refer to the one we ran five years ago! And what about our readers who
are
not on the Internet? Should they be excluded from learning what some of
you
already know just because of their unfortunate circumstances of not
having
Internet access or who might be new to the hobby?
This magazine is about education. Don't we have an obligation to educate
another generation of rocketeers? Sure, the "old timers" know it, but the
age
group of our readers is also changing. And if we are allowing them to
make
their own motors, we darn well better educate them about what they are
getting in
to! Heck, why don't you contribute some of your knowledge? Make a
difference
and help others!
These articles may be on the Internet, but they are not all accurate.
I'll let you in on a little secret. Most of those older NASA documents
have
technical errors which have been corrected in the versions we publish,
along
with
some additional technical updates. For example, I cannot remember the
exact
article, but before press time Chuck Rogers called to make one of those
technical
corrections. He said, "Yes, what you have is what was originally
published
but it is wrong. If people use that equation, they'll have a major cato
when
their motor ignites."
The NASA reprints will continue to run, from time to time. We have people
who like them, because they are one of those many facets of rocketry. We
will
probably run another one in the next issue. It is a rare document about
liquid engines. We have had requests for liquid propellant and liquid
engine
articles.
Now most of you are probably saying, "OK, I can live with that--as long as
the content in the other issues is good and interests me."
Issue Content
OK, how can it be good and interest you? Since the beginning, the content
has been controlled by our readers, and mostly by members of Tripoli. No
kidding! Editors usually do that control thing, but not this one. I have
only
out-right rejected one article. I print the articles people send me.
Therefore, if
you don't like the content of HPR, don't blame me, I'm just an editor. I
write something occasionally, but my job is to lay out the magazine, get
it
to
press, and get it sent to our subscribers.
Right now, we have a shortage of articles. I have a few that were sent to
me that were not published due to my involvement with regulatory issues,
but
I'll eventually publish them even though they may be old. Right now,
however,
my priority is to get the new stuff published, as it comes in, within a
reasonable amount of time. Printing the newest stuff first is a major
part
of the
recovery process of this magazine as well as the hobby.
If we produced a couple of thick magazines right now, I would not have
enough material to run others until late in the fall. We are going to
have a
few
thin ones until more articles start rolling in.
Contributors
Without contributors, we would have nothing. Some contribute more than
others and go well beyond the "second mile." Take, for example, Ed
Miller.
Ed
has contributed articles in 13 out of the last 24 issues. He is the sole
author
of 16 articles and co-author of one more.
Les Derkovitz has also become a regular contributor. In this issue he
gives us insight into why we have had deployment problems at high
altitudes
and
provides a solution. Can you imagine what this magazine would be like,
what
this hobby would be like, if everyone contributed even one time to this
cause?
These two people have complained about things, but they have always
backed
it up
with a willingness to be a part of the solution rather than to further
"fester" the problem. Talk is cheap. Ed and Les are movers and
shakers--men
of action--
in the HPR hobby today.
We are looking for more people like them, but thankfully there are
others--
too many more to mention. I salute all of you.
Why Not Pay For Articles?
Some think that if we paid for articles we might get more of them. Maybe
so, but we are not going to go down that road. There are two reasons we
will
not pay for articles.
First, we are not big enough to make a significant payment for articles.
We already donate (or contribute) generously to the hobby and to Tripoli.
For
example, just this past month we gave away over 3,000 copies of HPR to
help
prefectures grow the hobby in their area. We have donated many, many
issues
over
the years. At LDRS last year we donated over 2,500 copies of various
issues.
(If you are keeping track, that is over 5,500 issues contributed in less
than
a year.)
I have already mentioned, above, our complimentary launch ad program. We
have donated this space for many years, along with Prefecture Listings
and
TRA
Membership Applications. The full color LDRS ad in this issue? That is
donated space worth $345.00 every time we run it. It is my understanding
that our
competition charges for those ads. We never have and (as long as we can
afford
it) never will charge for an LDRS ad.
In the past ten years, we have run over 116 full-page ads, 91 half-page
ads, and over 584 quarter-page ads for free.
If you add up the complimentary advertising HPR has donated to Tripoli,
it totals over $78,500.00. In addition, the complimentary issues sent to
prefectures, trade shows, and to those requesting copies from the TRA web
site, far,
far exceeds this number in total value. Again, this has been donated from
the
beginning of independent ownership. It was not a demand of Tripoli for
me to
run free launch ads. It was my own choice.
I did not say any of this to boast, but for your education. I doubt if
more than five people are even aware of the level of donated materials
and
donated time we have given to Tripoli and to this hobby.
Want to see all of this go away? It will if we open Pandora's box and
start paying for articles. I cannot afford to do both. My decisions have
been to
do what is best for the hobby and I think our contributors feel the same
way.
Only one person has ever asked to be paid for a submission and we did not
publish it.
Secondly, I believe donated articles are better, higher quality articles.
They come from the heart and are not produced or motivated from the
wallet.
Let me explain it with this story, paraphrased from the teachings of Zig
Z
iglar.
There were two men--friends--who went looking for work together in the
1800's. They were hired by a railroad company. Many years later, while
one
of
them was working in the hot sun, a company train approached. One of the
rail
cars
was the Presidential car owned by the railroad. Inside, the
Vice-president
looked out the window and recognized someone familiar, so he left the
comfort of
his rail car to visit his old friend. They had not seen each other in
many
years, so it was a pleasant visit for both of them. As the car pulled
away,
another worker asked,
"So you know the Vice-president?"
"Yes, I do. We were hired together on the same day."
"How is it, then, he is Vice-president of the railroad and you are just a
rail man?"
"The reason he is Vice-president and I am not is simple. The day we were
hired, I went to work for a dollar-twenty-five a day. My friend went to
work
for
the railroad."
So I put this question to you. As readers of this magazine what do you
want, articles written for twenty bucks, or articles written for you and
for
the
sake of the hobby? I think our company position on this issue is clear.
We
will not be paying money, any amount, for articles. There may come a time
when
we will offer annual awards for the "best of" in a category, but not
until
we
are standing on more solid ground.
"OK, if I send you something, what's in it for me?"
One important lesson from the story above is that a worthy contribution
to a good cause has its own reward. Take the first and third letters for
instance. They were addressed to me, the editor, but they are really a
compliment to
the authors of the articles in those issues!
The greatest reward for any contribution is the respect of your peers.
Just think how grateful you are for the articles you enjoy reading. Now,
imagine
a few thousand people like you feeling the same way about something you
contributed! The heartfelt gratitude you will feel from your friends
outweighs and
outlasts the temporary value of twenty bucks! Just imagine how you will
feel
when they call you all excited and say, "Hey, just got my HPR in the
mail,
and
you're in it!"
"I'm convinced! Tell me what to do!"
Submitting something to HPR is simple. The first thing you need to do is
to decide what you can contribute. (Everyone can contribute something.)
Are
you good at rocketry construction or design? If so, the next time you
build
a
project, take photos during the construction process and then write a
story
to
fit the photos you took. Are you technically inclined? If so, what are
you
doing with your rocketry projects to include your technical talents? When
you
figure that out, write something about it. Have you ever bought a kit
that
you
found a way to improve upon while building it? Take pictures during
construction
and tell us about it. And have you attended a launch lately? Did you take
any
pictures or do you know someone who did? All you need now is to borrow
the
flight cards, obtain some photos, and you are ready to tell the rest of
us
about
the launch.
There is almost no end to what can be put in print about this hobby. All
we need are those willing to share their experiences with everyone else.
Are you concerned that you are not a good writer? Don't sweat that. Write
what you can and leave the rest up to us. That's what editors are for.
You
don't have to worry about the article layout. Just send raw text,
digital or
paper photos, drawings, etc. and we'll take care of everything else.
If you need help, give me a call or drop me an e-mail. I'm here almost
every day.
Some Projects Put On Hold
Before I move on to my closing thoughts, I would like to mention some
things we were working on before 9/11. We had two special issues planned.
The
first was a "Buyer's Guide." Almost every industry has produced an annual
Buyer's
Guide except for our industry. I had several commitments to produce the
issue. Then, a week or so after 9/11, the key participants dropped out.
Perhaps as
the rocketry economy improves we can attempt to do this again.
The second project put on hold was an "international" issue. We will get
this project rolling again soon. Anyone wanting to contribute to this
issue,
please let me know. We want to know what rocketry activities you are
involved
with in your country.
The third thing to go after 9/11 was hobby store distribution. We had
that going pretty good, but the economy has made it difficult. (Many
stores
went
out of business.) It became too difficult to manage and to produce
magazines
at the same time, so hobby stores are still off line for now.
One piece of good news was the reacquisition of a distributor who sends
magazines all over the world. The third letter from our Singapore friend
illustrates this.
[blah, blah, blah about issues not relevent to a magazine that IS NOT
COMING OUT and not DELEGATED to a competent person capable of doing it.]
HPR Magazine -- What It May Become
I may be the editor, but remember the content is up to you. Don't like
what you see? Then do something about it. When one issue goes to press, I
fire
up the computer, open a new Quark document, and behold! a new canvas is
presented to me. It is clean and bright waiting for someone to lay
something
on it.
That someone is you!
If you send nothing, then nothing of yours will get published. And, since
this is Tripoli's Journal and we are preparing a detailed compilation of
the
journal activities of Tripoli, you may come and go and no one will even
know
you were here. You will be surprised how soon you'll be forgotten.
Relying
on
someone else to write an article and mention your name? Don't count on
it.
How
many articles have you seen lately--in any magazine--covering East coast
launches? Hey, East coast people! I'm calling you out! Is rocketry dead
back
there?
Does Size Matter?
I believe most people feel it was the content that made HPR magazine
great and not the physical size. The physical size of HPR was changed,
like
the
Tripoli Report, to meet the demands of the economy. However, the magazine
can
still be what you want it to be if you will allow it.
It's ironic. I have a set of books that are considered the "greatest
classics in literature." HPR magazine is about a quarter-inch taller and
a
full
inch wider than The Red Badge of Courage. It is a little larger than
Melville's
Moby Dick and Defoe's Robinson Crusoe. And, more ironic still--HPR is
larger
than Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities. The irony is that for rocketry it
really
is
"the best of times" or "the worst of times." It depends on your point of
view.
Recent discussions about magazine size reminds me of the little boy in
the park who watched a man selling balloons. To attract attention, the
man
with
the balloons would let one go occasionally. First there was a red one,
then
later a yellow one. Finally he released a white balloon which, like the
others,
reached high into the sunny, blue sky. The little boy was concerned
because
he
did not see a balloon his own color. So he tugged on the man's
shirtsleeve.
"Hey, mister," the boy asked pointing to the sky. "If you let go of a
brown
balloon would it go as high as those?" The man looked at the boy and
wisely
said,
"Of course it would. It's what's on the inside of the balloons that makes
them rise."
When people "praised" the great issues of the past, they were not
referring to the physical size of the magazine. No one ever said, "Hey,
great issue!
And I especially love the size."
Perhaps this is what our friend from Illinois had in mind when he said,
"More importantly, that content that I now see in your publication is
more
poignant particularly when juxtaposed with the other HPR related
magazine.
Perhaps
it always was. Maybe after all the distractions of the past year or two
that
I've distilled what I want out of rocketry into its essence and found
what
it's really all about."
Conclusion
Our friend from Texas asked an important question, referring to his point
of view about the content of the last two issues, "Is this how future
issues
are going to be?" My response to him was, "The answer is up to you and
other
readers. If you don't like something, you have the power to make changes.
All
you have to do is to contribute something you feel is worthwhile for our
readers."
So this issue is off the press and in your hands. Having an opportunity
to make an impact on the future is exciting. It is a challenge and an
awesome
responsibility. My computer is on, and I have a blank page in front of
me.
Are
you ready to become the artist for the next issue? The canvas is waiting.
-- B Kelly
[
"You can look for this."
- Larry Brown in the 1972 Enerjet catalog
]
==
Jerry
Jerry Irvine
Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> One thing about MDRA is that they do not want motors used if they come
> from a source that might be shipping improperly. The club officers
> have been very clear about wanting everything being done properly.
Oh? So how do they determine the legality of each individual EX'er?
Jerry
>
> Phil Stein
> Phil Stein
Brian Elfert
>Naaaaaaaa, he has no power now that he has been removed for his
>financial and behavioral irregularities :)
How was Bruce "removed"? Didn't he voluntarily step down as president?
Did he even run for the board in the last election?
Brian Elfert
Brian Elfert
If Jerry showed up at BALLS and somehow became a TRA member, could people
launch USR motors simply because he is there?
A number of Kosdon O10000s went up at BALLS 2002. Was Frank a team
member for every one of those launches?
Brian Elfert
Jerry Irvine
Brian Elfert <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
He ran and was BARELY defeated.
W. E. Fred Wallace
Fred
Brian Elfert
>> How was Bruce "removed"? Didn't he voluntarily step down as president?
>> Did he even run for the board in the last election?
>>
>> Brian Elfert
>He ran and was BARELY defeated.
I remember now. He announced he didn't want to be president before the
elections, but still ran for BOD. The board picks the president and maybe
he was told he wouldn't be picked, so he retired instead.
He still wasn't "removed" as you say.
Brian Elfert
Phil Stein
for BoD. He was not elected to the BoD. SO, Jerry if he ran
everything & fixed the vote, how did this happen?
Phil Stein
Phil Stein
RayDunakin
<< If Jerry showed up at BALLS and somehow became a TRA member, could people
launch USR motors simply because he is there? >>
The only limitations are that the maker of the motor is present, is a current
TRA member, and is certified to the proper level. There's nothing limiting a
person to a single team, so one individual could provide motors for several
teams.
Jerry Irvine
Jerry Irvine
Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> He said he wouldn't be president beofre the election but, still ran
> for BoD. He was not elected to the BoD. SO, Jerry if he ran
> everything & fixed the vote, how did this happen?
Because he couldn't even get magazines out to fix the vote as usual. Not
even that many magazines:)
Also when was the last time the ballots arrived less than 2 weeks late?
Jerry
>
> Phil Stein
>
> On 11 Dec 2003 01:46:00 GMT, Brian Elfert <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
>
> >Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net> writes:
> >
> >>> How was Bruce "removed"? Didn't he voluntarily step down as president?
> >>> Did he even run for the board in the last election?
> >>>
> >>> Brian Elfert
> >
> >>He ran and was BARELY defeated.
> >
> >I remember now. He announced he didn't want to be president before the
> >elections, but still ran for BOD. The board picks the president and maybe
> >he was told he wouldn't be picked, so he retired instead.
> >
> >He still wasn't "removed" as you say.
> >
> >Brian Elfert
>
> Phil Stein
--
Jerry Irvine
Brian Elfert <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
> raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) writes:
>
> >Brian E. wrote:
> ><< Doesn't Tripoli EX allow use of an EX motor if the person who made it is
> >part of the team launching the rocket? The person who made the motor does
> >not
> >need to be the person who made the rocket. >>
>
> >That is correct. Also, all members of the team must be TRA members.
>
> If Jerry showed up at BALLS and somehow became a TRA member, could people
> launch USR motors simply because he is there?
>
somehow? never-impossible-how!
> A number of Kosdon O10000s went up at BALLS 2002. Was Frank a team
> member for every one of those launches?
Hmmm. And if his motors were decertified for "cause", how come that
cause also didn't result in his membership being removed for cause?
Just Jerry
>
> Brian Elfert
Brian Elfert
>> A number of Kosdon O10000s went up at BALLS 2002. Was Frank a team
>> member for every one of those launches?
>Hmmm. And if his motors were decertified for "cause", how come that
>cause also didn't result in his membership being removed for cause?
Was the O10000 ever certified? Frank's membership was suspended for a
time.
Brian Elfert
Jerry Irvine
Brian Elfert <bel...@visi.com> wrote:
> Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net> writes:
>
> >> A number of Kosdon O10000s went up at BALLS 2002. Was Frank a team
> >> member for every one of those launches?
>
> >Hmmm. And if his motors were decertified for "cause", how come that
> >cause also didn't result in his membership being removed for cause?
>
> Was the O10000 ever certified?
I thought it was.
> Frank's membership was suspended for a
> time.
>
> Brian Elfert
--
W. E. Fred Wallace
restrictive trade lawsuit.
Fred
Jerry Irvine
"W. E. Fred Wallace" <wall...@olg.com> wrote:
> Oh no!!, I guess that makes me a candidate for another imaginary
> restrictive trade lawsuit.
No Fred. You indicated to somehow "vette" the process of transportation.
So I asked the reasonable and obvious question, "Oh? So how do they
determine the legality of each individual EX'er?"
You replied,"We know who you are...(;-)", which stinks of typical TRA
Jerry-mandering". Somethhing MDRA has represented to me in the past is
not the case, when INVITING me to come and BRING MOTORS and fly.
I was hoping for an answer that would encourage me to FLY back east and
GO TO A LAUNCH for FUN at MDRA.
Some of us fly rockets for fun still.
Jerry
>
> Fred
>
> Jerry Irvine wrote:
>
> > In article <3FD7C491...@olg.com>,
> > "W. E. Fred Wallace" <wall...@olg.com> wrote:
> >
> > > We know who you are...(;-)
> > >
> > > Fred
> > >
> > > Jerry Irvine wrote:
> > >
> > > >Oh? So how do they determine the legality of each individual EX'er?
> > > >
> > > > Jerry
> > >
> >
> > This is a board ember of MDRA posting this shit.
>
--
W. E. Fred Wallace
As anyone else, you are welcome to join MDRA; and use high power rocket
motors that meet the following criteria, within your TRA/NAR HPR certification
level:
1. Commercial motors known to be legally manufactured. We obviously know whom
the legal manufactures are.
2. Motors, you indicate as an individual and/or group of individuals present
at the launch have made. We may ask an individual and/or group the question;
"who made the motor?", However and for the most part, our RSO will not
question the registered flyer's answer and will allow the motor to be used if
the answer is; "I made it or we made it".
Notice, there is no (:-) or (;-) at the end of any sentence...
Fred Wallace.
MDRA BOD, and unapologetic "Chief Worry Wart"
FlyEmFast
wrote:
>A forced apology is not a valuable apology.
>
>The record was corrected by the principal and that should suffice.
You pulled this crap when you trashed Jim Turner after his death.
You never change Jerry.
Steve
Jerry Irvine
FlyEmFast <jus...@sbcglobal.com> wrote:
> You pulled this crap when you trashed Jim Turner after his death.
You mean when I reported what he said and did and it was so offensive to
some reactionary rmr posters they forwarded the obscure inaccessable rmr
posts to the greiving widow?
I heard no apology for that insensitive madness!!!