Hardener ( for painting )

[Joel R]

I am about to start painting my level 2 ( 5.5" Lil Nuke upscale ) I have a
gallon of acrylic enamel electric blue. My question is how much hardener do
I mix into it? The paint was some leftover my shop used to paint forklifts
with ( Automotive type paint ). I was told to thin it out then add the
hardener, but how much I do not know.

Thanks

JR
77267
L1 ( soon L2 )

[Hilty Information Systems]

Much of what I spray is 4:1, and Mark Simpson might be able to
enlighten us on what the most common ratio is, but I've seen 3:1, and
5:1 in the past.

Bottom line, contact the paint's manufacturer if you don't have the
instructions, and get that ratio right. Not enough hardener, and it
won't harden, too much, and it'll harden in about 1 minute!

You say it came from "your shop", so why not check with the guys
who've painted your forklifts? I'll bet they know...

Tod "Automotive RULZ!" Hilty

Tod A. Hilty NAR #72099
Hilty Information Systems

- replace ihrUnterhose with adelphia for reply
--
Member MTMA, NAR Section #606

Mantua Township Missile Agency
http://web.raex.com/~markndeb/rockets/mtma/

"I'm going to put the wheels of the bus back on... just in case"
- BlankReg, Max Headroom: 20 Minutes Into the Future

"I speak for myself _and_ my corporation! Deal with it!"
- blankreg

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <a2satm$ae6$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de>,
bah...@hotmail.nospam.com says...

What brand is the paint?

--
Kurt Kesler

[Hilty Information Systems]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:06:23 GMT, hil...@ihrUnterhose.net (Hilty
Information Systems) wrote:

>On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:16:54 -0500, "Joel R"
><bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>I am about to start painting my level 2 ( 5.5" Lil Nuke upscale ) I have a
>>gallon of acrylic enamel electric blue. My question is how much hardener do
>>I mix into it? The paint was some leftover my shop used to paint forklifts
>>with ( Automotive type paint ). I was told to thin it out then add the
>>hardener, but how much I do not know.
>
>Much of what I spray is 4:1, and Mark Simpson might be able to

Duh. That'd be 4 parts paint to 1 part hardener/activator, etc.
Anyway, verify that with the instructions...

Tod "Tylenol wearing off" Hilty

[David Takemoto-Weerts]

Try dissolving one Viagra pill per gallon... 8^) Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Mark Simpson]

Excellent question, Kurt. Not all paints are created equal. Brand, trade
name, grade, paint code.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

[John Grassi]

Hardener should be mixed in at a ratio of 8:1 meaning 8 parts paint one part
hardener. Anything more is a waste of hardener.

"Joel R" <bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a2satm$ae6$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de...

[John Grassi]

He specified Acrylic Enamel Electric blue then stated auto type being used
for fork lifts. That is about as specific as one can get. The answer is
8:1 paint to hardener.

"Mark Simpson" <mark.s...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3C51EC96...@home.com...

[Hilty Information Systems]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:12:48 GMT, "John Grassi" <1...@1.com> wrote:

>He specified Acrylic Enamel Electric blue then stated auto type being used
>for fork lifts. That is about as specific as one can get. The answer is
>8:1 paint to hardener.

Hmmm.. ya sure? I mean he should at least be able to tell if it's
Dupont, PPG, Sikkens, Spies-Hecker, etc..

FWIW, I have a gallon of Candy Apple Red Acrylic Enamel made by
Montana Products, Inc...

5:1 paint to hardener..

my $0.02..

tah

[John Grassi]

Are you talking about the base or the overcoat? Sounds like you are talking
about a two stage system whereas I doubt anyone is coating forklifts with
two stage enamels. I would say take a small amount of this paint and try it
with 8:1 and 5:1. Based on what you are saying about a your 2 stage candy
system and his single stage, I'll be the 8:1 is right.

My $.02

"Hilty Information Systems" <hil...@ihrUnterhose.net> wrote in message
news:3c535a9...@news1.news.adelphia.net...

[Mark Simpson]

Telling me the color and type of a paint doesn't help much. There are
lots of paint companies out there selling blue acrylic paint, including
the one that I work for, PPG. (There's no such thing as an automotive
acrylic laquer, BTW, so it's not necessary to specify enamel if it's an
acrylic)

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

[John Grassi]

Joel,

I would bet based on the fact that this is being used for fork lifts that
this is simple single phase paint although, the can should shed some light
on the amount of thinner and hardener to use but as I thought about this I
realized that the instructions for the hardener will be on the hardener. I
read the 8:1 I posted off the hardener I had in my garage. Actually I read
it off 3 different companies hardener so I would bet it is 8:1. Best thing
to do is try a small amount. I assume you have an airbrush or small gun
around. Mix up an ounce or two and see how it turns out. The specs off the
can are general estimates anyway. I use them as guidelines.

John

"Joel R" <bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a2satm$ae6$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de...

[Hilty Information Systems]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 04:09:38 GMT, "John Grassi" <1...@1.com> wrote:

>Are you talking about the base or the overcoat? Sounds like you are talking
>about a two stage system whereas I doubt anyone is coating forklifts with
>two stage enamels. I would say take a small amount of this paint and try it
>with 8:1 and 5:1. Based on what you are saying about a your 2 stage candy
>system and his single stage, I'll be the 8:1 is right.

It's a basecoat. Additionally, it *is* what the company calls
"industrial grade". Why anyone would want to paint a piece of
industrial equipment Candy Apple Red is beyond me. <g> That's probably
why I ended up with it in the first place. I'll try your suggestion
the next time I'm screwing around with the mixes, just to see what
happens.

[Kurt Kesler]

In article <3C538967...@home.com>, mark.s...@home.com says...

> Telling me the color and type of a paint doesn't help much. There are
> lots of paint companies out there selling blue acrylic paint, including
> the one that I work for, PPG. (There's no such thing as an automotive
> acrylic laquer, BTW, so it's not necessary to specify enamel if it's an
> acrylic)
>
> Mark Simpson
> NAR 71503 Level II
>

This group beats all I have ever seen, Mark. It is pretty much an
exercise in futility to try and help someone.

--
Kurt Kesler

[John Grassi]

Tod,

I am not an expert on paint but I have sprayed a lot of enamel and lacquer.
I would say pick up a can of hardener and see what it says and follow that.
I looked at three different cans I had and they all said 8:1 so this is
where I got the figure from. This is a guideline for the most part. I
generally have to use more thinner than prescribed so who knows. The
hardener is quite pricey so I would advise anyone to use as little as
possible to get the effect you desire. I would estimate that more would
produce a much harder and glassier finish but I have not experimented with
more than prescribed hardener because of the expense of it Around me an 8
oz can runs about $15.00. I think this works out to be enough for a gallon
of paint. It's been a while since I sprayed a car though so this works out
to be an estimate of how many rockets I can spray.

John

"Hilty Information Systems" <hil...@ihrUnterhose.net> wrote in message

news:3c54128...@news1.news.adelphia.net...

[Sams Family]

Tod waxed rhetorically:

>
> Why anyone would want to paint a piece of industrial
> equipment Candy Apple Red is beyond me.

I had the fortune of spending my last college summer in the paint shop at the
local Coca-Cola plant. ('Course, if I'd had my feces aggregated, I'd have been
co-oping somewhere instead of digging bondo out of my nose.). We painted road
rigs, route trucks and pop machines. The vehicles got Imron while the machines
got Centauri. One local mechanic who was also an accomplished rodder, and quite
talented with a spray gun, made the comment one day that whoever it was we had
sure did put down the prettiest coat of Imron. I haven't seen the painter in
nearly 20 years, but I always thought it was quite a high compliment.

OTOH, I prefer my forklifts Petty blue.

Doug

--
samily at flash dot net

[John Grassi]

That is a good compliment!

"Sams Family" <sam...@flash.net> wrote in message
news:3C543B0C...@flash.net...

[Hilty Information Systems]

On Sun, 27 Jan 2002 15:35:33 GMT, "John Grassi" <1...@1.com> wrote:

>Tod,
>
>I am not an expert on paint but I have sprayed a lot of enamel and lacquer.
>I would say pick up a can of hardener and see what it says and follow that.

Yep. Plus, since I work as a consultant for the company, I usually
check in with one of their chemists in QC if things don't seem right,
or I don't have the instructions. Also, that's why I mentioned to the
original poster to check with the guys who actually painted the
forklifts. You'd figure that they ought to know the correct ratio..

>I looked at three different cans I had and they all said 8:1 so this is
>where I got the figure from. This is a guideline for the most part. I
>generally have to use more thinner than prescribed so who knows.

Interesting, that.. I've sprayed this stuff before, and I've never had
to reduce (thin) it. This goes for both my detail gun, and my
airbrush. Primer, I'll reduce occasionally, because I use the highest
solids stuff I can get (30 lbs/gallon!)..

>The
>hardener is quite pricey so I would advise anyone to use as little as
>possible to get the effect you desire. I would estimate that more would
>produce a much harder and glassier finish but I have not experimented with
>more than prescribed hardener because of the expense of it

*Technically*, you can spray the stuff straight out of the can,
without hardener, and it'll dry. Problem is, what you end up with is
known as a "lacquer cure" which is dry to the touch, but you can
usually scrape it off with your fingernail. Obviously, hardener
causes a chemical reaction in the paint which makes the coat more
durable. There must be a point of diminishing returns tho', like
epoxy, where more hardener just won't do any good. Figuring out what
that point is, is a job I usually trust the chemists in R&D to deal
with..

<g>

>Around me an 8
>oz can runs about $15.00. I think this works out to be enough for a gallon
>of paint. It's been a while since I sprayed a car though so this works out
>to be an estimate of how many rockets I can spray.

Well, there again, it's nice to be a consultant for the company, and
just happening by the mixing room when they're ready to scrap a batch
of mis-matched paint!

"Uh, guys? Might I have a quart or two of that Komatsu Green before
y'all dump it into the scrap barrel?"

<vbg>

[Joel R]

First off I want to thank everybody for their input, it has helped a lot, to
answer Marks question the paint is made by PPG ( Delstar ). The back of the
can does not say anything about hardener ( it lists 2 reducers DTR 80 and
DXR. 1 pint for each gallon of paint ) The hardener I will be using is PPG
MH202. There are no instructions on the hardener ( Just precautions ) I will
try to find a website.

Thanks again
See ya all at NYPOWER 2002

JR
77267
L1

"Joel R" <bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:a2satm$ae6$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de...

[Mark Simpson]

Joel,
Try
http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmProductInfo.asp?Cat=10
as a starting point.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

"Joel R" <bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a33d3l$qq0$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de>...

[Joel R]

Thats what I was looking for, a spec sheet on the entire line of Omni
coating products.

Thanks again ( Mark )
JR
77267
L1
Cant wait to see thr FTOD fly again

"Mark Simpson" <mark.s...@home.com> wrote in message

news:2ada0da.02012...@posting.google.com...

[Mark Simpson]

No problem, Joel. And it's FT"B"OD. ;-) It may not fly again at
NYPOWER2002 depending on whether or not I build and fly the GF Clock
instead and motor availability. "M" motors may still be like hens
teeth in July.

Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II

"Joel R" <bah...@hotmail.nospam.com> wrote in message news:<a348g8$g6$1...@www.flugmodellbau.de>...