Wadding (Please read)
Ben Newham
estes ?, I ask this because I have just run out and the nearest estes dealer
is miles away, I was thinking that fibreglass loft insulation might be good.
The Rocket Scientist
I use cellulose attic insulation. It is flameproof, biodegradeable,
and cheap. I bought a bale of the stuff about 4 years ago and I am
still using it.
--
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Bill Sullivan
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shire/2351/
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Bob Chmara
upon as a wadding substitute. Pick up a bag of cellulose insulation. I
think mine was a 25lb bag, it's cheap, IIRC mine was under $10.00, a single
bag will probably last you 10 years if you fly a lot, and it's
biodegradable. Any home improvement store should carry it.
Best of all, it's commonly referred to as dog barf.
--
Bob Chmara
NAR, HUVARS, TRA, Team1, L2, http://www.chmara.com/bt/rocketry
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Ben Newham <be...@newhamb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:7qk0tr$evf$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
Kevin Drayson
<be...@newhamb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Does anyone have any ideas for a substitute for the wadding supplied by
>estes ?, I ask this because I have just run out and the nearest estes dealer
>is miles away, I was thinking that fibreglass loft insulation might be good.
>
>
The fibreglass would work, but isn't recommended. It's bad for the
environment.
Two alternatives (and I use both) are Nomex chute protectors
(available from Pratt Hobbies, and maybe other sources too) and
cellulose insulation (aka "Dog Barf").
The nomex is nice, because it's reusable (you tie it to the shock
cord) and you don't have to bother with stuff handfuls of wadding into
larger-diameter body tubes. The sheets are also inexpensive, so losing
one won't bankrupt you.
The cellulose is cheap as dirt- you can get a bag about 4' x 3' x 1'
(guessing at dimensions here) for about $10 Canadian (probably about
$5-$7 US). You'll be able to pass it on to your kids, and they'll be
able to pass it on to theirs. I cannot imagine ever using a full bag
of this stuff. It's also environmentally friendly- being cellulose, it
will break down over a relatively short time, and won't be nearly as
harmful to any animals that might eat it as fibreglass would.
I use the nomex in bigger rockets, and save the wadding and cellulose
for the very small ones, where having the nomex tied to the shock-cord
may cause binding (resulting in the chute not being ejected).
Kevin Drayson CAR #S369
kdra...@nbnet.nb.removethis.ca
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/kdrayson
Rick Dickinson
<be...@newhamb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Does anyone have any ideas for a substitute for the wadding supplied by
>estes ?, I ask this because I have just run out and the nearest estes dealer
>is miles away, I was thinking that fibreglass loft insulation might be good.
>
>
Unfortunately, fibreglass is not biodegradable, so you will be littering
the ground with every ejection charge.... Try crepe paper (party
streamers). It's biodegradeable, and, at least in the USA, required by law
to be treated with flameproofing. Get a roll, and test a small piece of it
with a match or cigarette lighter. If it immediately self-extinguishes
after removing the flame source, it's OK to use.
Since crepe is not as soft as Estes wadding, you may need more of it to
ensure a good seal against the body tube (fill the tube with loosely packed
crepe wadding for 2-3 diameters, rather than 1-2 diameters of Estes
wadding).
I use it in all of my rockets, and it's a good, cheap substitute.
- Rick "Blowing my wadding" Dickinson
SirWmOsler
biodegradeable so it will be floating around forever. Lots of other
options....
Cellulose insulation is popular but hard to find. Try hardware stores. It is
shredded, treated paper.
For Estes size rockets, crepe paper is a good alternative (you know, the stuff
used for party streamers). Be sure it is the flame retardant kind. It is sold
in party stores, card shops, craft shops, actually alomst anywhere in rolls.
Here in the states it is about $0.50 a roll. It can also be found in sheets.
lettuce works well, jut remember to remove it after you fly.
Good luck!
Art
NAR# 34201 L1
TRA # 6821 L1
Bill Guy
Ben Newham wrote in message <7qk0tr$evf$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>Does anyone have any ideas for a substitute for the wadding supplied by
>estes ?, I ask this because I have just run out and the nearest estes
dealer
>is miles away, I was thinking that fibreglass loft insulation might be
good.
>
Lots of people have replied:
Don't use fibreglass. It's Environmentally Rude!
Cellulose insulation should probably be considered as
"regionally challenged." ;-) In Northern US states, (& Canada)
where the winters are cold enough to freeze hot coffee in mid-pour,
I've seen it readily available in nearly all hardware stores.
In warmer climes, (or even in the UK ;-) )
you may not be able to find it.
Crepe paper works very well. Some people use it in streamer form.
I find it at the local Party store in sheet form. I cut it
into strips that are roughly twice the width of Estes wadding.
By doing this, I think that I've experienced a lot less "burn-through"
than I did using the Estes paper.
On my way to each launch, I usually pick up a loaf of bread.
I dry out a couple of pieces and use bread crumbs for wadding.
I don't think that you can get any more environmentally friendly.
If you try this, I think that fresh bread may add too much weight,
too far back. I think that I caused a rocket to become unstable
from using too much bread that was still too fresh.
(A theory that I have yet to prove.
The evidence: 8 launches on the same exact model.
The model simulations consistently
indicate adequate margins of stability.
All Launches using Estes D12's, 3 with -5 sec delays, 5 with -7 sec
7 Perfect flights: 1 unstable loop-de-loop.
Absolutely, nothing changed between launches, except the wadding.
(and, of course, the engine.) )
---
Bill Guy Internet:: wg...@kodak.com
"In statu quo ante bellum." - J. Caeser, 44 BC
"Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose." - F. M. Voltaire, 1778 AD
"Meet the new Boss! 'Same as the old Boss!" - P. Townshend, 1971 AD
Bruce Levison
Paper based materials are probably not the best substances to use for
recovery wadding. There are better inexpensive alternatives available;
try the permanent Teflon wadding that I invented! Permanent wadding can
be made from a body tube wide "pompom" constructed from the standard 1/2
or 3/4 inch wide Teflon Pipe Thread sealing tape. Lay a few strands
(about 4 inches long) of Glide dental floss or thin Kevlar line along
the end of the rocket's body tube and loosely wrap around 20 to 30 turns
of Teflon pipe thread sealant tape over the lines at the edge of the
tube. Tie the heat resistant shroud line around all the wraps of Teflon
tape and slide the bundle of wrappings off the end of the body tube.
Cut through all the Teflon layers in the loop directly opposite this
knot and spread out the strands to feather out a pompom. Tie the pompom
of wadding to the shock cord near where it exits the rockets body tube.
Dust this Teflon pompom with powdered Talc to help prevent the pieces of
Teflon from sticking to themselves.
Teflon pipe thread sealant tape is ideal for use in this
application, it is readily available, cheap (at most a few dollars for a
100 foot roll), and has a useful temperature range that extends to 500
degrees F. Glide dental floss, which is also Teflon (or PTFE), should be
available
from your local discount store; it costs around $3.50 for 100 yard roll
and makes great heat resistant shroud lines.
Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055
Author of the Teflon Rocketry article from Nov/Dec 1997 issue of "Sport
Rocketry" that details the suggestions above!
This article is available on pages 3 and 4 of the May/June 1998 issue of
NIRA's newsletter "The Leading Edge" at:
http://www.nira.chicago.il.us/Leading_Edge/may_jun.pdf
Jamey #5295
to pick it up) and some livestock/wildlife will try to eat it, which isn't
good either, most launch sites are now "fiberglass free".
Buy some cellulose insulation (aka, blown in cellulose insulation) from Home
Depot or the like, comes in a bale about ~30"x 16"16" in size, ~$7 or so,
use liberally and will still last years for most flyers.
Jamey #5295
Ben Newham wrote in message <7qk0tr$evf$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>...
DDavis6747
PAPER. I buy the birthday table size(about $1.50 per pack) and cut it into
desired size.
Remember. THE PACKAGE MUST SAY 'FLAME-PROOF' ON IT.
Beat buying Estes Wadding all the time and goes a long ways.
-dan-
Lewis Garrow
Zuni01
>estes ?, I ask this because I have just run out and the nearest estes dealer
>is miles away, I was thinking that fibreglass loft insulation might be good.
I'd steer away from the fiberglass insulation since it's not biodegradable -
not to mention you wouldn't want this stuff falling on you.
Many building supplies sell cellulose which is an insulating material made from
recycled ground up newspapers that have been treated to be fire resistant. It's
safe and biodegradable. Usually you can only buy a sizeable cube of it, but the
last one I bought was $3 and lasts me longer than I can get rid of it. Once the
package is opened, I put the package in a plastic garbage bag so it doe not dry
out too quickly. This stuff is great.
zun...@aolsansspam.com(remove sansspam for email addr)
Stephen DeArman
snip
>I sure hope his little beak itches so much it falls off.
Maybe it does and he's coming back to scratch.
Trust No One
Randy
Bob Kaplow
> Don't use fiberglass...it works but birds eat it and get sick,
Sadly, this is a false tale spread by old sick dogs that grow tired of
vomiting just so we can fly rockets.
That @!*# woodpecker has pulled bunches of this out of my house after making
swiss cheese of my siding, and I've yet to find a sick or even better dead
woodpecker from the fiberglass exposure. I sure hope his little beak itches
so much it falls off.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips: http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
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Mark Johnson
Bob Kaplow wrote in message <1999Sep2.213053.1@eisner>...
>That @!*# woodpecker has pulled bunches of this out of my house
after making
>swiss cheese of my siding, and I've yet to find a sick or even
better dead
>woodpecker from the fiberglass exposure. I sure hope his little
beak itches
>so much it falls off.
You should look into steel siding for your house. I hear it's
absolutely impeccable.
<grinning, ducking, and running like heck>
mj
Bob Kaplow
> You should look into steel siding for your house. I hear it's
> absolutely impeccable.
>
> <grinning, ducking, and running like heck>
Just wait until my next shampoo bottle flys at NARAM...
Mark Johnson
Bob Kaplow wrote in message <1999Sep3.131008.1@eisner>...
>Just wait until my next shampoo bottle flys at NARAM...
Long as it's only sham-poo and not *real* poo!
:-)
Jim Kerns
>
> Go to Wall Mart, Michaels, Art Store, whatever and buy FLAMME-PROOF CREPE
> PAPER.
< . . . >
>
> Beat buying Estes Wadding all the time and goes a long ways.
And, if you attach it to your shock cord with a dab of tape, you can
re-use it many times as well as reducing litter.
--
Jim K. !When Great Britain changed to the Gregorian calendar in
Ji...@ili.net !1751, the day following Sept. 2 was declared to be
-- !Sept. 14. Thinking that somehow they were being cheated
out of 11 days, people rioted. Slightly more than 248 years later,
people celebrated Jan. 1 2000 as the start of the new millennium.
DDavis6747
Thanks for the thought about using crepe paper for a streamer.
However, we have found better stuff. Mylar works great. Especially
when used in contest configuration.
Also,I found some plastice 1" wide ribbon spool at Home Depot that
beats what Estes uses for its plastic streamer material.
-dan-
Paul Diming
DDavis6747 wrote in message
<19990910010107...@ng-ci1.aol.com>...
>9/10/99 - 00:00cst
>
>Thanks for the thought about using crepe paper for a streamer.
>
>However, we have found better stuff. Mylar works great. Especially
>when used in contest configuration.
Mmm lots of opportunities here. Have you experimented with different
textures??? It is possible to control the amount of drag required by
varying the width, length, size and texture of the streamers. Many
variables to play with. Texture is real interesting. The rougher (and I
mean ROUGH) they are the more drag results. But sometimes, you can end up
with too much drag such that you have the same effect as you would if you
had chosen a chute. Other times, the streamer is so smooth and so small
that you simply don't have enough drag. Mylar is an excellent choice.
But... It is easily burned/melted by burning engine particles. I pick up my
streamer material from fabric stores.
>
>Also,I found some plastice 1" wide ribbon spool at Home Depot that
>beats what Estes uses for its plastic streamer material.
>
I buy a lot of streamer material from the hardware store. I use the 1"
stuff for very small model rockets. I also found the yellow caution tape to
be extremely useful for larger rockets! Fun !
Paul.
dcast...@my-deja.com
kapl...@eisner.decus.org (Bob Kaplow) wrote:
> In article
<19990901164554...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
sirwm...@aol.com (SirWmOsler) writes:
> > Don't use fiberglass...it works but birds eat
it and get sick,
>
> Sadly, this is a false tale spread by old sick
dogs that grow tired of
> vomiting just so we can fly rockets.
>
out of my house after making
> swiss cheese of my siding, and I've yet to find
a sick or even better dead
> woodpecker from the fiberglass exposure. I sure
hope his little beak itches
> so much it falls off.
>
"Ctrl-Alt-Del"
>
> Kaplow Klips:
http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html
> NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us
NAR: http://www.nar.org
> SPAM: spamr...@ChooseYourmail.com
u...@ftc.gov postm...@127.0.0.1
>
Bob :
He's probably using it as nesting material instead
of eating it...
Just think, he might be itching all over all the
time without a clue of why...that's your best
revenge :-)
mark mullins
Lowes or Home Depot.
It makes excellent wadding and is the cheapest stuff known to man for
the purpose.
mark mullins
David Stribling
stuff, about $4.
David Stribling
NAR 18402 Sr.
But it *is* rocket science!
<http://www.texhoma.net/~dstrib/rocket.htm> remove "nospam." to reply
mark mullins wrote in message
<28367-37...@newsd-241.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Mike Pearson <see .sig>
> Is this stuff they advertise as "blown in" insulation? I see an ad for that
> stuff, about $4.
>
Yep, that's the stuff. A $4 bale will last a lifetime...for a club!
You can do what one of the local rocket guys has done, and repackage it
into smaller, more manageable tubs...which he sells for a couple of
bucks, with a lifetime refill of the tub. Good deal all around; I don't
have to keep a bale around, I get a handy tub to carry the stuff in, and
he just keeps it coming!
--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr/Insured/Level-1 ~ SeaNAR - The Seattle NAR Section #568
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] blarg [dot] net.
<WARNING: Do not look into laser beam with remaining eye!>
Paul Diming
David Stribling wrote in message <7rhkjj$en7$1...@ionews.ionet.net>...
>Is this stuff they advertise as "blown in" insulation? I see an ad for
that
>stuff, about $4.
>
Not sure. But if you check the bale, it will say it is made of cellulose.
Recycled newspapers frequently. About $4-6 a bale. Great stuff ! Not
perfect mind you. But good for wadding. Cheap. Recyclable. Safe for the
environment. Effective. Burn resistant.
Messy, yes. Unattractive, yes. IMHO, the pros outweigh the cons...
Paul.
Fred Shecter
discussions about this material, and noone has found any in the Los
Angeles area since Home Depot and Home Base do not carry it here.
I will attempt to visit or call the Brand New LOWES that just opened (at
least I think they are already open) down the street from where I work.
They are just entering our area, so they are unexplored territory for
me.
If I find any, I will report (and Skip, if your listening, I can let you
have some...).
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117