Best Deal on Tubes, Rings, Etc ?
Bill Botook
my 2nd HP kit Im thinking Id like my next bird to be my own design. It
seems theres at least a decent variety of airframes out there. So , Im
asking ....where are the best deals on airframes etc found ? I guess Im not
necessary looking for the highest quality materials out there but the best
value and should be of at least "decent" quality. Anyone have any
recommendations ?
Thanks
Gene
"Bill Botook" <bookn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:NjSyc.41717$Sw.32690@attbi_s51...
Jerry Irvine
"Bill Botook" <bookn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
www.usrockets.com has a little known "seconds" lot sale. Tubes that are
structurally fine but have water damage or some other cosmetic defect.
Otherwise just buy new parts from one of many suppliers.
Rockets generally DO need rocket tubes.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Please bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Produce then publish. http://www.usrockets.com
My articles valuable? Donate http://tinyurl.com/2hmgv
Jason Toft
Hi Bill,
I have been quite impressed with LOC's paper body tubes for MPR and
HPR (when you glass it). They are quite strong. Although I've never
used them to date, I've heard nothing BUT good things about PML's
Phenolic tubing. This is the best overall tubing for HPR, IMHO. You've
got to glass it, though, since it can be quite brittle. I've heard
about, but never seen, fiberglass tubing. This tubing is only going to
cost you more $$$$, so, you might want to stay away from it until you
get into the more extreme projects.
Also, I'd like to invite you to join us at The Rocketry Forum,
www.rocketryforum.com , where you will find fully moderated,
rocketry-related discussion. You'd like it if you think all RMR is
good for is a laugh from time to time. Yeah...yeah...that was
cold...so what! RMR has gone from a helpful place for rocketeers on
the web to "The Jerry Irvine Show", IMO. Come check us out there -
over 1000 friendly members.
Jason
RayDunakin
Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
Scott D. Hansen
raydu...@aol.com says...
Nope. They still owe over $1400 plus interest. I've not dealt with
them since this incident. And here I thought Dave was a class guy, NOT!
--
Scott D. Hansen
Ye Olde Rocket Shoppe - Your One Stop BAR Shoppe!
http://www.rocketshoppe.com
WOOSH NAR Section #558 http://www.wooshrocketry.org
Jerry Irvine
raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:
> << http://www.redarrowhobbies.com >>
>
> Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
>
>
>
Aerotech Inc. didn't.
Jerry Irvine
Scott D. Hansen <sco...@execpc.com> wrote:
> In article <20040613103607...@mb-m20.aol.com>,
> raydu...@aol.com says...
> > << http://www.redarrowhobbies.com >>
> >
> > Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
>
> Nope. They still owe over $1400 plus interest. I've not dealt with
> them since this incident. And here I thought Dave was a class guy, NOT!
He is a class act.
ER has no (verry little) "pull" and the market is thin and shrinking and
being whipsawed by now RCS.
Jerry
David Weinshenker
>
> In article <20040613103607...@mb-m20.aol.com>,
> raydu...@aol.com says...
> > << http://www.redarrowhobbies.com >>
> >
> > Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
>
> Nope. They still owe over $1400 plus interest. I've not dealt with
> them since this incident. And here I thought Dave was a class guy, NOT!
I've never heard of this "incident" - what actually happened?
I've ordered from Red Arrow a couple of times and
consider them a good source for tubes and rings.
-dave w
Dave Grayvis
> In article <20040613103607...@mb-m20.aol.com>,
> raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:
>
>
>><< http://www.redarrowhobbies.com >>
>>
>>Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Aerotech Inc. didn't.
>
jerry irvine/us rockets hasn't.
Jerry Irvine
Dave Grayvis <davegr...@netscape.net> wrote:
Fully 100% paid-up to Extreme Rocketry magazine.
RayDunakin
<< ER has no (verry little) "pull" and the market is thin and shrinking and
being whipsawed by now RCS.>>
So what? If you take out an ad in a magazine, you have an obligation to pay for
it. But that's something I wouldn't expect YOU to understand.
Phil Stein
Looks like Aerotech screwed ER also. Why doesn't anyone complain
about that.
Phil Stein
Brucie credit for not whining about it.
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:28:50 -0700, Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net>
wrote:
David Weinshenker
>
> Are you a debt collector now?
>
> Looks like Aerotech screwed ER also.
I think that was sort of a side effect of the "all-or-nothing"
nature of the bankruptcy system. They had to include their
ordinary commercial accounts-payable (along with the claims being
pressed by other parties that were also damaged in the fire - which
were really the debts from which they needed relief) in their aggregate
statement of "total debts" for the bankruptcy filing.
-dave w
Phil Stein
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 08:30:54 -0700, Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net>
wrote:
>In article <MPG.1b362cd11...@news-server.wi.rr.com>,
David Erbas-White
Would it possibly be because they followed the legal mechanism of filing
for bankruptcy?
David Erbas-White
Phil Stein
bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
David Erbas-White
>Oh so, they couldn't have paid their bills before they filed for
>bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
>
>
>
>
Please don't misunderstand me. I don't condone bankruptcy. I've been
in severe financial straits myself, and bankruptcy would have been the
'easy' solution, but it's not the one I took.
My point is that there IS a legal mechanism in place that they
followed. Was it ethical? No. Was it legal? Yes. Was what RAH
(apparently) did ethical or legal? No to both.
As long as the mechanism for bankruptcy is part of the legal system,
people will take advantage of it. Don't like it? Vote for legislators
who will change it.
Do I think the employees got the raw end of the deal? Yes, certainly.
However, there may be some mechanisms in place that protect them more
than other creditors (I don't know). Frankly, though, the employees
have a better 'window' on what's going on than outside vendors did, and
thus have the ABILITY to protect themselves a little bit better. If
Aerotech was paying on a Net30 basis, for example, they easily had 30
days before any vendors would have even become suspicious (and in
reality it would have been more like 60-90 days). The employees were
probably (assumption here) paid on a bi-weekly basis, and if they missed
a paycheck, that's one heck of a "heads up" that financial problems are
looming.
In the longer term, the employees (if they don't get fully paid) also
have the future option of not working for the new, re-branded Aerotech
if they feel that any 'new' terms are not acceptable to them (such as a
'bonus' that might reimburse them, etc.). Given current economic
conditions, the 'price' of maintaining their job might have been to
simply go forward and forget the back pay (again, this is all pure
speculation).
David Erbas-White
Jerry Irvine
David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Phil Stein wrote:
> >
> > Are you a debt collector now?
> >
> > Looks like Aerotech screwed ER also.
>
> I think that was sort of a side effect of the "all-or-nothing"
> nature of the bankruptcy system. They had to include their
> ordinary commercial accounts-payable (along with the claims being
> pressed by other parties that were also damaged in the fire - which
> were really the debts from which they needed relief) in their aggregate
> statement of "total debts" for the bankruptcy filing.
Taking the logic of this statement one step further, you will note
certain suppliers were "paid in full" prior to filing to keep their
names off the BK papers.
So ER was obviously of low priority despite the debt being relatively
small.
Jerry
>
> -dave w
>
>
>
>
> Why doesn't anyone complain
> > about that.
> >
> > On 13 Jun 2004 14:36:07 GMT, raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:
> >
> > ><< http://www.redarrowhobbies.com >>
> > >
> > >Have they ever paid their debt to ER?
> > >
> > >
--
Jerry Irvine
raydu...@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:
Why wouldn't you expect me to understand that?
I/we obviously run ads.
Over and over.
Phil Stein
(appearence of) disregard toward the people that trusted him.
Phil Stein
friends are for.
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 13:19:13 -0700, Jerry Irvine <01ro...@gte.net>
wrote:
>
Jerry Irvine
Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> Agreed. I just have issues with the ethics & especially the
> (appearence of) disregard toward the people that trusted him.
>
Ever since the rise of tripoli there has been a precipitous drop in
industry ethics generally.
Jerry
Dave Grayvis
> In article <13arc0pgn01p36e3c...@4ax.com>,
> Phil Stein <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Agreed. I just have issues with the ethics & especially the
>>(appearence of) disregard toward the people that trusted him.
>>
>
>
> Ever since the rise of tripoli there has been a precipitous drop in
> industry ethics generally.
>
> Jerry
>
Do you think that it is ethical to ship over two hundred pounds of
rocket motors as, "model aircraft parts"?
Phil Stein
Rick Dickinson
<PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
>Oh so, they couldn't have paid their bills before they filed for
>bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
Unfortunately, the way the bankruptcy laws are structured, it can
actually be illegal to pay off debts before the bankruptcy. So-called
"Preferential Transfers" are illegal (and can be voided by the courts)
if done within 90 days of a bankruptcy filing. A preferential
transfer occurs when 1) a debtor transfers property to a creditor
within 90 days before wthe filing of a bankruptcy petition, 2) the
transfer is made for a preexisting debt, and 3) the creditor receives
more from the transfer than it would from Chapter 7 liquidation.
So, if he paid off a preexisting debt to ER during the 3 months prior
to the bankruptcy filing, and the amount he paid them was any more
than they would have received from the bankruptcy (which it would have
been), the courts have the discretion to *reverse* the payoff, and
force ER to pay the money *back* into the bankruptcy estate, to be
distributed along with all of the other assets.
So, it may not have been morally *right* to avoid paying that debt,
but it may have been the legally required thing to do.
- Rick "Fun with the legal system" Dickinson
--
I've always quite liked the idea of prison ships.
The only difference between the standard version and mine, of course,
being that with mine you sail the ship out to some nice, deep bit of
ocean and then scuttle it. -- Alistair J. R. Young, in the Monastery
Jerry Irvine
Rick Dickinson <r...@notesguy.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:38:33 -0400, Phil Stein
> <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
>
> >Oh so, they couldn't have paid their bills before they filed for
> >bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
>
> Unfortunately, the way the bankruptcy laws are structured, it can
> actually be illegal to pay off debts before the bankruptcy. So-called
> "Preferential Transfers" are illegal (and can be voided by the courts)
> if done within 90 days of a bankruptcy filing. A preferential
> transfer occurs when 1) a debtor transfers property to a creditor
> within 90 days before wthe filing of a bankruptcy petition, 2) the
> transfer is made for a preexisting debt, and 3) the creditor receives
> more from the transfer than it would from Chapter 7 liquidation.
>
> So, if he paid off a preexisting debt to ER during the 3 months prior
> to the bankruptcy filing, and the amount he paid them was any more
> than they would have received from the bankruptcy (which it would have
> been), the courts have the discretion to *reverse* the payoff, and
> force ER to pay the money *back* into the bankruptcy estate, to be
> distributed along with all of the other assets.
>
> So, it may not have been morally *right* to avoid paying that debt,
> but it may have been the legally required thing to do.
>
> - Rick "Fun with the legal system" Dickinson
Point.
Lawyers and rocketeers do mix :-(
Phil Stein
statements made in the past about how only the lawyers got screwed.
Don't take this a me minimizing the lawyers loss. I'm not the one
that said 'only'.
On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:20:58 -0700, Rick Dickinson <r...@notesguy.com>
wrote:
David Weinshenker
>
> On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:38:33 -0400, Phil Stein
> <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
>
> >Oh so, they couldn't have paid their bills before they filed for
> >bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
>
> Unfortunately, the way the bankruptcy laws are structured, it can
> actually be illegal to pay off debts before the bankruptcy. So-called
> "Preferential Transfers" are illegal (and can be voided by the courts)
> if done within 90 days of a bankruptcy filing. A preferential
> transfer occurs when 1) a debtor transfers property to a creditor
> within 90 days before wthe filing of a bankruptcy petition, 2) the
> transfer is made for a preexisting debt, and 3) the creditor receives
> more from the transfer than it would from Chapter 7 liquidation.
>
> So, if he paid off a preexisting debt to ER during the 3 months prior
> to the bankruptcy filing, and the amount he paid them was any more
> than they would have received from the bankruptcy (which it would have
> been), the courts have the discretion to *reverse* the payoff, and
> force ER to pay the money *back* into the bankruptcy estate, to be
> distributed along with all of the other assets.
Hmmm.... I was wondering if there were some such constraint.
Does this apply only if you were anticipating the bankruptcy
filing, or in all cases? Suppose you had been going along
paying your commercial accounts in the ordinary fashion,
and were then rendered insolvent by an emergent circumstance
that forced you to file bankruptcy: would last month's phone,
electric, etc. bill payments be considered "preferential transfers"
to be reversed in the bankruptcy filing?
-dave w
Phil Stein
Jerry Irvine
David Weinshenker <daz...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Rick Dickinson wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 14:38:33 -0400, Phil Stein
> > <PSt...@ArielSystems.spamsks.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Oh so, they couldn't have paid their bills before they filed for
> > >bankruptcy? They owed employees money too.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the way the bankruptcy laws are structured, it can
> > actually be illegal to pay off debts before the bankruptcy. So-called
> > "Preferential Transfers" are illegal (and can be voided by the courts)
> > if done within 90 days of a bankruptcy filing. A preferential
> > transfer occurs when 1) a debtor transfers property to a creditor
> > within 90 days before wthe filing of a bankruptcy petition, 2) the
> > transfer is made for a preexisting debt, and 3) the creditor receives
> > more from the transfer than it would from Chapter 7 liquidation.
> >
> > So, if he paid off a preexisting debt to ER during the 3 months prior
> > to the bankruptcy filing, and the amount he paid them was any more
> > than they would have received from the bankruptcy (which it would have
> > been), the courts have the discretion to *reverse* the payoff, and
> > force ER to pay the money *back* into the bankruptcy estate, to be
> > distributed along with all of the other assets.
>
> Hmmm.... I was wondering if there were some such constraint.
> Does this apply only if you were anticipating the bankruptcy
> filing, or in all cases? Suppose you had been going along
> paying your commercial accounts in the ordinary fashion,
This is why the enforcement of the provision is subject to judicial
review and not automatic. If errortech had paid ER the judge would not
have reversed that.
Heck she didn't even reverse a $2.4m insurance transfer.
> and were then rendered insolvent by an emergent circumstance
> that forced you to file bankruptcy: would last month's phone,
> electric, etc. bill payments be considered "preferential transfers"
> to be reversed in the bankruptcy filing?
>
> -dave w
--
Dave Grayvis
It's up to the Judge.
