Where to fly in SoCal without *hassle*?
Carl Hardwick
where I don't have to go through
a club who basically flys my rocket for me while I watch (why bother?) like
what happened at Mile High park in
Fountain Valley until recently. (They took rocket and airplane flying away
from us in Orange County to build
yet *ANOTHER* golf course.)
In Florida, you simply went to an empty field....here they have all of these
oppressive flying laws.
Can anybody help? All I want to do is set up my small launcher and fly
Estes-type rockets on the weekends.
Thanks!
Carl
David Weinshenker
Well, anywhere in California you need a permit from the local fire marshal's
office to fly even a model rocket, so club launches tend to be the way it's done
here... personally I like to be able to set up on a club pad and then choose a
place to stand for a better view of the ascent - which may not be at the same
position as the launch control panel.
-dave w
Fred Shecter
launch pad and controller and push the button or you can simply put it on a
club pad and go prep some other models or recover a rocket.
http://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/
The only difference between launching on your own and launching with us is:
1) We have the permit from the local Fire Authority Having Jurisdiction.
2) We have written permission from the property owner.
3) We have insurance.
4) We inspect your model for safety and to make sure it will not fly off the
flying field and into the little league field or golf course.
You are correct that it *sucks* that they built another golf course at Mile
Square Park (which is far less than a mile high....). There is still a HUGE
launch site at the Santa Fe Dam and in Fountain Valley at the recreation
center annex. (That last site should re-open again soon - they had it closed
for a couple of weeks during the trash strike and now they need to clean it
up and tell us it's good-to-go in the next few days, so stay tuned).
Other launch sites are possible as long as you get the required permits. See
this one for instance:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ideacity/
To do it on your own read through all the pages on the SCRA website and pay
particular attention to this one:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mebowitz/siteaid.pdf
If you get a site of your own and it's legal let the rest of the world know
about it!
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Carl Hardwick <NOSP...@keyway.net> wrote in message
news:9qe250$gu6$1...@madmax.keyway.net...
shrox
here that is convenient for testing new designs. This is a bit of a problem
since I design rockets. I send them to my wife's brother out in Iowa. He flies
them on his farm then reports back.
I am looking for a usable place near me. Shrockets always go higher and farther
than one might guess, so most parks and fields around here are just not quite
big enough. Any places near Concord to Antioch, Calif.? I usually find new home
developments are usable for a few weeks during the 'coming soon' sign phase.
Has anyone been able to get permission to use federal land? We have weapons
depot near by that is huge and has plenty of space away from the storage
bunkers. By huge I mean 5 miles square at least. It is the infamous Port Chicago
Weapons depot.
Shrox
----------------------------------------------------------------
David Weinshenker
> I live just outside San Francisco (north Cal), and there is no place to launch
> here that is convenient for testing new designs. This is a bit of a problem
> since I design rockets. I send them to my wife's brother out in Iowa. He flies
> them on his farm then reports back.
The nearest NAR sections seem to be LUNAR at Livermore and SARG south of Sacramento -
these are my usual "home" fields; for big stuff I head down to the TCC launches
near Fresno.
-dave w
(in Hayward)
shrox
LUNAR's field seems a little small to me, and there was ALWAYS a soccer game, soccer
practice, or a detachment of some soccer mom field security battalion patrolling "their"
field.
I've been wanting to go for a rocket road trip, is there good antique hunting for my
"ever rocket tolerant as long has she has something to do" wife in Fresno?
Shrox
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Weinshenker
> LUNAR's field seems a little small to me, and there was ALWAYS a soccer game, soccer
> practice, or a detachment of some soccer mom field security battalion patrolling "their"
> field.
Hmmm.... there was one time this year when there was a scheduling screwup with the
park department and there was a major soccer tournament at the same time as one
of our launches (we basically tried to accomodate them by aiming our trajectories
over the launch crowd instead of the soccer field itself (usually a prime recovery
area); there was one ambulance call for a soccer injury but no rocket-related accidents)
but usually we try to miss the soccer activity. (That's why so many of our launches this
year have been oddly scheduled - because of soccer activity on what would have been the
"usual" date.)
The field is a bit cramped, especially now that the former open space across the street
from the soccer area is being built over... we've put in a 1500 ft. altitude limit
to try to minimize problems with rockets landing on the neighbors.
> I've been wanting to go for a rocket road trip, is there good antique hunting for my
> "ever rocket tolerant as long has she has something to do" wife in Fresno?
I don't really know the area - the only place anywhere near there that I've ever been
is the Maddox Dairy Farm where the launches are held...
-dave w
Kevin Trojanowski
across the river from that state, in Nebraska...
-Kevin
shrox
wife called me while she was driving up to his house and was buzzed by a jet while I
was talking to her. I heard the boom. She didn't know what kind it was, but I'll bet
anything is a good excuse to go supersonic during current times, even a blue Saturn on
a dirt road...
Shrox
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RBrigham1
all of these
>oppressive flying laws.
>
>Can anybody help?
The fundimental problem with rocketry in California, be it central or coastal
southern California, is that for at least six months of the year, the landscape
is carpeted in hybrid fuel (dried grass and brush) mixed with an oxidizing
atmosphere. It only needs a relatively small rise in absolute temperature and
the equivalent of a Daveyfire to set it off. I now live in Calabasas, starting
point of the great3 day fire of '94 that burned up Malibu, and can only think
whistfully back at the times in my youth in Pennsylvania when we launched
anytime we wanted to in the field behind the house. Sigh.
Such is the price we pay for living in LaLa land, where the economy is strong
enough to for me to affort high power engines. I'm just greatfull that there
are any scheduled safe launches anywhere around here.
Anyway, just my penny-and-a- half's worth.
Robert Brigham
NAR 79579 L1
Words are your friends. Choose them carefully.
Kevin Trojanowski
serious lust for a girl who was from near there (Keosauqua).
I'm sure he has NO trouble flying the rockets around there -- wide open
spaces!
-Kevin
Les Bonser
I don't live in SoCal so I can't offer any more than my sympathies...
I am just appreciative that I live where I do. If you ever make it to Las
Vegas and want to go out and shoot off a few, let me know. I've got a friend
or two that are also into rockets and I'm at least one of us could find the
time to take you out to the dry lake. If necessary, I'd even lend you a
rocket or a motor or a pad....
Best of luck in your quest.
Les
On 10/15/01 12:13 AM, in article 9qe250$gu6$1...@madmax.keyway.net, "Carl
Dave/Kristin Hall
: As a BAR and living in Southern CA the past 10 years, I need to find a site
: where I don't have to go through
: a club who basically flys my rocket for me while I watch (why bother?) like
: what happened at Mile High park in
You probably won't like this answer, but I enjoy flying at Cuddyback Lake.
--
David Hall
- http://www.ridgenet.net/~thehalls
R. J. Talley
fire service. Their field office in Barstow loves to issue rocketry permits.
Give them two weeks lead time. They'll write you ar permit and mail it to
you. The wardens out on the dry lake are super great...they love to watch,
just like my uncle Bert, but I digress. Any way...El Mirage in the Mojave.
--
R. J. Talley
NAR 69594
"To do is to be"...Descarts
"To be is to do"...Voltaire
"Do be, Do be, do"...Sinatra
"Les Bonser" <lbo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:B7F0CD60.3BE9%lbo...@worldnet.att.net...
Carl Hardwick
I will investigate Fred's website suggestions. Maybe I'll try the alternate
"assisted" sites again. It was just a hassle at Fountain Valley when you had
to W-A-I-T forever with everybody there.
Thanks Les....I may take you up on that some day. I've never been to Las
Vegas.
But not in summer....I hate heat. :)
Thanks again to all!
Carl Hardwick
Carl Hardwick <NOSP...@keyway.net> wrote in message
news:9qe250$gu6$1...@madmax.keyway.net...
Fred Shecter
scout group shows up and they have no idea what they are doing, or if there
is a sudden influx of beginners who got starter sets as presents. Sometimes
they show up at the field with the Estes starter set still sealed in the
plastic clamshell package! Obviously they have no idea how it works and have
not read the instructions! Luckily many of them really appreciate the extra
attention and help that they get from several of our members who volunteer
to help beginners so that they do not feel like they're drowning on their
first day. (Yes, John Joseph, that's often you...) After one or two flights
they begin to feel like an old-timer and they watch other flights and ask
questions and begin the road to model rocketry addiction (hopefully).
Many groups have leaders who are prepared. We *love* them! They either have
taken one of our classes and then relay that info on to their kids and the
parents or they have the whole group take our class. They all have their
models glued together properly and we don;t need to delay check-in for
last-minute repair instructions. They also have the correct motors for the
field size or for first flight. Those groups can get in a lot of flights!
Then there are the unprepared youth groups.....We try and try to tell their
leader over and over that they need to get the information to the parents
and students *well* in advance of launch day, but sometimes they are
"control freaks" who want to keep all of the knowledge to themselves for
fear of losing control over their group. The poor parents and kids are
completely unprepared for launching and often have not even read their
rocket's instructions! They would just as soon sit in the car and read the
paper and are bothered by having to actually take time to actually learn
about their child's activity. Those leaders usually don't reveal much info
to the parents other than directions to the launch site and the date/time to
be there. We prefer they give them copies of all of the info sheets on our
website (days in advance of launch day) and we'll even copy them for them if
they can't do it. These unprepared groups are usually the source of the long
lines since we have to repair rockets for them and exchange motors and
explain how to fill in a flight card.....
There are more groups in the springtime than in the summer or fall or
winter. Surge in beginners occurs throughout January and February, but there
is a trickle all year. It helps that we have good weather all year!
We have had virtually no lines since Spring. It helps that there is a launch
virtually every weekend and also launches with Alhambra and ROC. If Martin
knows of a youth group and if it is large, he will post that info on the
Yahoogroup (SoCalRockets) so that people who are worried about lines can
arrive early or skip that day.
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Carl Hardwick <NOSP...@keyway.net> wrote in message
news:9qgjtf$2aib$1...@madmax.keyway.net...
Les Bonser
Hardwick" <NOSP...@keyway.net> wrote:
> Thanks Les....I may take you up on that some day. I've never been to Las
> Vegas.
> But not in summer....I hate heat. :)
>
It's great right now. Cheap air fare, cheap hotel rates, calm air, daily
high temp in the low 80's, faint smell of burnt AP all over the valley...
;-)
Fred Shecter
;-(
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Les Bonser <lbo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:B7F241EA.41C7%lbo...@worldnet.att.net...
RocKiteman
years ago, and a gentlemen- either in government
or law enforcement (I don't remember which)- just
came right out and said:
"California is the home of the kook."
'Nuff said.
{Hope you get your launch problem settled.
-Allan "RocKiteman" Gaines
North Carolina, USA
--
===========================
Please remove the "xyz"
from the address if replying
by email. Thank you.
===========================
Dennis Bishop
I live in Rosamond,Calif. (Kern County) and has NO TROUBLES at all flying my
model rockets in the field next door to us.
RocKiteman <RocKitema...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:FweC7.100$7d.3...@newshog.newsread.com...
R. J. Talley
have found that the BLM in San Bernardino County has been 100% cooperative
in my requests for rocketry. Conversely, I've found that Pasadena, Burbank,
Glendale and Los Angeles city governments to be difficult if not down right
impossible. Especially the city of Burbank. Even schools cannot get
permission for launches..no exceptions! However, if you want to fly in the
desert on dry lakes, just ask the BLM and they will be more than happy to
grant you permission.
Likewise, the city of Santa Clarita is also cooperative but you need to give
them lead time of a week or two. The Hart school district and the Saugus
Union school district (both in Santa Clarita) are very open to "organized"
rocketry though they frown on and do not permit "casual" walk-on launching
on their grounds. If one asks for permission and can demonstrate competency
and insurance, permission will be granted.
LA County parks, of which there are several in Santa Clarita, are very
difficult places to gain access. I run a program for the elementary schools
in SUSD. Two of the school sites use contiguous parks as play fields. Even
with the school district's support and the assistance of the site
principals, I have had trouble getting the LA County Parks Dept. to give me
a permit. I have gotten them, but not without hassle. Last year, I even had
a parks rep try and shut me down while I was in the middle of a demo. She
would not accept that I had written permission, even when she saw the permit
she was not satisfied. Finally, her dept. boss showed up and I was permitted
to continue. Talk about bureaucratic BS!
So, that's my take on flying in the People's Republik of Kalifonia.
--
R. J. Talley
NAR 69594
"To do is to be"...Descartes
"To be is to do"...Voltaire
"Do be, Do be, do"...Sinatra
"Dennis Bishop" <hak...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:O1BC7.2871$I4.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Dave/Kristin Hall
: permission for launches..no exceptions! However, if you want to fly in the
: desert on dry lakes, just ask the BLM and they will be more than happy to
: grant you permission.
Realistically, you don't even have to do that. Many a time I've been
launching and had BLM folks drive up. Nope, I didn't have permission.
Nope, they didn't have a problem. They just saw what we were doing and
went about their business.
R. J. Talley
grab me by the short hairs and b*&ch slap me silly for spreading advice
that runs contrary to the law. He'd be right for doing so too. Our hobby
depends on responsible behavior and flying without jumping through all of
the hoops will eventually bite us in the butt. The anti-fun nazis are every
where!
--
R. J. Talley
NAR 69594
"To do is to be"...Descarts
"To be is to do"...Voltaire
"Do be, Do be, do"...Sinatra
"Dave/Kristin Hall" <theh...@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote in message
news:9rf23h$88l$4...@delphi.ridgenet.net...
Dennis Bishop
asked about any rules they had dealing with Model Rockets. The person asked
if I would be flying anything above the limits of the NAR safty code. I told
them no and also informed them that I was the leader of the SIAR which had a
like code too. They said fine, that as long as the area was big enough and
that it was all desert, I could fly them without troubles of any kind.
So I've done that and have a nice big field to do my launchs in too.
R. J. Talley <om...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:oIMC7.7063$2K5.6...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Dave/Kristin Hall
: grab me by the short hairs and b*&ch slap me silly for spreading advice
: that runs contrary to the law. He'd be right for doing so too. Our hobby
: depends on responsible behavior and flying without jumping through all of
: the hoops will eventually bite us in the butt. The anti-fun nazis are every
: where!
hoops to ask permission to fly a lousy Estes rocket is the day I give up
rockets. Seriously.
OBTrueHorrorToTheLikesOfFred: Gee, and just think, every year I take over
one of the local parks for a launch with the local high school...and beyond
the first year, we've yet to ask for permission.
Jerry Irvine
(Dave/Kristin Hall) wrote:
> I know, I know. But on a personal level, the day I have to jump through
> hoops to ask permission to fly a lousy Estes rocket is the day I give up
> rockets. Seriously.
> --
> David Hall
> - http://www.ridgenet.net/~thehalls
I'm still trying to get beyond "David Hall, the China Lake guy" actually
flying mere model rockets :)
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to:01ro...@gte.net>
Bring common sense back to rocketry administration.
Jerry Irvine
"Dennis Bishop" <hakaida@<*>earthlink.net> wrote:
> When I 1st moved up here to Rosamond, I called the Kern County grovement and
> asked about any rules they had dealing with Model Rockets. The person asked
> if I would be flying anything above the limits of the NAR safty code. I told
> them no and also informed them that I was the leader of the SIAR which had a
> like code too. They said fine, that as long as the area was big enough and
> that it was all desert, I could fly them without troubles of any kind.
>
> So I've done that and have a nice big field to do my launchs in too.
>
Big is an understatement.
Dave/Kristin Hall
: I'm still trying to get beyond "David Hall, the China Lake guy" actually
: flying mere model rockets :)
What? Are you saying they're not fun? I like 'em too!
OBBigStuff: Last week we shot off at Trident D-5 booster. I was about
4 miles away(*) and the windows were rattling pretty good.
(*) You know you're lazy when you can't be bothered to get off your ass and
go to the control room to watch something like that.
Fred Shecter
development has occurred. AND you should make sure you talk to the correct
person when you call. Often the person that answers the phone at many
city/county fire agencies or parks departments gives out bogus advice
because they are just the receptionist. When you finally talk to the actual
inspector who issue permits and they actually read the State regulations,
you often get a different answer. Then they either give you your permit for
free or charge you a fee or say "no".
After the wildfire is not the time to find out that you talked to the wrong
person or got bogus info. That is why Sacramento (CSFM) advises to get the
permit or permission IN WRITING. Of course for the dry lakebeds they seldom
give written permits for Model Rocket launching, only for HPR, but at least
you should get the verbal OK for the MR.
-Fred "just trying to be helpful" Shecter NAR 20117
Dennis Bishop <hak...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:YnVC7.5459$I4.4...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Fred Shecter
County areas (that are densely populated).
They are far too close to just banning the sale of Model Rockets to avoid
the hassle of people flying them illegally. They have had their share of
fires caused by kids and adults launching where they should not have.
Just like with the effort to swamp the BATF with LEUP applications to help
the HPR effort people should try to develop a helpful relationship with
their local fire authority to show them how safe Model Rocket flying can be
for the average citizen and to help establish regular launch sites at parks
or schools that are not only recognized by the local Fire AHJ but that are a
resource that they can point people to when they call up to ask!
-Fred Shecter NAR 20117
Dave/Kristin Hall <theh...@ridgecrest.ca.us> wrote in message
news:9rhgm8$b02$2...@delphi.ridgenet.net...
Jerry Irvine
(Dave/Kristin Hall) wrote:
I'm beginnig to know that feeling. I MUST be geting old :(
cool firings at www.v-serv.com/-upload
no new stuff lately.
>
> --
> David Hall
> - http://www.ridgenet.net/~thehalls
--
Jerry Irvine
<fred.e....@boeing.com> wrote:
> You should check again periodically as years have gone by and more
> development has occurred. AND you should make sure you talk to the correct
> person when you call. Often the person that answers the phone at many
> city/county fire agencies or parks departments gives out bogus advice
> because they are just the receptionist. When you finally talk to the actual
> inspector who issue permits and they actually read the State regulations,
> you often get a different answer. Then they either give you your permit for
> free or charge you a fee or say "no".
>
> After the wildfire is not the time to find out that you talked to the wrong
> person or got bogus info. That is why Sacramento (CSFM) advises to get the
> permit or permission IN WRITING. Of course for the dry lakebeds they seldom
> give written permits for Model Rocket launching, only for HPR, but at least
> you should get the verbal OK for the MR.
I think Dennis' site is wildfire proof. Heck Firestarter there would be a
walk in the park.
--
