NAR v Tripoli, What's the Logic?
quasar22
rocket launching. I have been reading this ng for a couple of months
trying to gain an understanding of the current state of the art for
rocketry. Like many other newsgroups, the signal to noise ratio here is
very high, and for a newbie it becomes a real challenge to find the
nugget of truth for some of the core issues.
Can somebody tell me (without flaming passion) the basic structure and
differences between Tripoli and NAR? Do they work together for common
good? Do their interests overlap? Do they compete against each other?
What's the Logic for all the hate and bad vibes I read between these two
organizations?
Bill Westfield
differences between Tripoli and NAR? Do they work together for common
good? Do their interests overlap? Do they compete against each other?
I would expect the important difference to be that Tripoli is essentially
HPR only, while NAR covers model rocketry as well...
What's the Logic for all the hate and bad vibes I read between these two
organizations?
AFAIK, there aren't "bad vibes" between the ORGANIZATIONS, or even in
general between members of one organization towards the other organization.
It's more along the lines of certain individual members who have strong
feelings against the group they decided not to be a member of...
BillW
--
(remove spam food from return address)
Peter Clay
>Can somebody tell me (without flaming passion) the basic structure and
>differences between Tripoli and NAR?
Here's my take. Others may tell you differently:
NAR is the bigger and older. NAR began to define and self-regulate "model
rocketry" as understood by G. Harry Stine and a few others, and always assumed
we would be dealing with single-use non-metallic motors smaller than 62.5 grams
of propellant. In other words, keep the hobby within the parameters of
(mostly) unregulated use.
By 1980, people were making bigger motors and finding out they were fun, and
the NAR was set to frown on that. Tripoli was formed to accomodate the bigger
stuff and to help rocketeers make their way through the legal process.
At first Tripoli was seen as an outlaw group. Gradually NAR's outlook has
broadened until Tripoli today is almost redundant. However, Tripoli still has
some value because they have the equipment and the range procedures in place to
handle much larger stuff than NAR traditionally prepared for. Tripoli also has
procedures in place for those who want to make their own experimental motors,
while NAR has always pretended that doesn't happen, or frowned on it.
NAR, on the other hand, remains the guardian of traditional "Model Rocketry"
and administers competition, insurance, and Sport Rocketry magazine. (Tripoli's
magazine, "High Power Rocketry," is a nice mag but the center of a political
turmoil I don't understand.)
Today the two work together a great deal. There is a reciprocal agreement so
that motors certified by either organization can be used by both, for instance.
Here in Oregon, our club is a loose mixture of NAR and Tripoli members and
both are fully accepted.
Some of the early Tripoli guys are colorful and controversial characters. You
will read occasionally of Jerry Irvine, Frank Kosdon, and Bruce Kelly. The
mention of any of these names on r.m.r is apt to start a flamefest. If I told
you why, I'd be passing along rumors; I've never had a problem with any of
them.
I hope this helps. I'm sure you will get other perspectives. (I'm afraid your
question may become a lightning rod for some of the "noise" you were concerned
about. I tried to send you email instead of posting here, but it bounced.) Be
nice, guys. ;-)
Peter W. Clay NAR 18619 SR L1
"Experience is a good teacher, but her fees are high."
Peter W. Clay NAR 18619 SR L1
"Experience is a good teacher, but her fees are high."
Jay Calvert
[snip]
> Can somebody tell me (without flaming passion) the basic structure and
> good? Do their interests overlap? Do they compete against each other?
Tripoli members drive pickup trucks and SUVs, because they are the only
vehicles big enough to transport their new rocket.
NAR members prefer the VW bug, since since it is economical and easily large
enough to transport their entire collection of 73 scale sounding rockets, 9
models of the Saturn IB (in 9 different scales), 6 Little Joes (I's and II's),
43 gliders, 17 egglofters (single and double), 13 helicopters, 5 stupid-rocs
(all slightly crimped), 8 downscales of Estes kits for Micro Maxx motors,
flying pencils, flying lamp shades, flying umbrellas, flying coat hangers,
flying pumpkins, flying badminton birdies, flying Barbies, flying Bunnys,
flying Happy Meals, etc...
Tripoli members wear torn bluejeans, black Metallica T-shirts, and your choice
of a cap advertising your favorite brand of farm tractor (East) or a cowboy
hat (West).
NAR members wear propeller beanies, pocket protectors, and have a 207-function
scientific calculator on their key chain (next to the VW keys). The NAR "old
timers" prefer a slide rule, because it's "more fun".
Tripoli members like their coffee black, their Marlboros red, and their Jack
Daniels straight up.
NAR members debate the relative merits of serving a Zinfandel or a
Liebfraumilch with the quiche and eggs benedict after the 1/4A DELD contest.
Unfortunately the point was moot, since heavy thermal activity prevented any
of the eggs from being returned.
>
> What's the Logic for all the hate and bad vibes I read between these two
> organizations?
Bad Vibes? To my knowledge nobody in either organization has ever said
anything negative or derogatory about the members or leadership of the other organization.
;-)
If you believe that, I have a bag of Aerotech igniters and some wonderful red
delay liners to sell you...
Jay
PS - All kidding aside, both organizations offer benefits to members and are
doing what they can to protect our hobby. Join both if you can.
--
Jay G. Calvert / jcal...@ctol.net / Gales Ferry, CT
NAR#71767 L2/ TRA #6100 L2/ CATO #4/ LEUP
Vice President of CATO (Tripoli SE Connecticut 27/NAR Section 581)
Jay's' Rocketry pages: http://www.ctol.net/~jcalvert/
CATO: http://www.catorockets.org
"My CG has moved aft of my CP. No wonder I'm unstable!"
Terry Moore-Read
T-shirt no baseball cap who drinks black coffee and owns a badminton birdie
rocket (and prefers a good merlot over a Zinfandel or a Liebfraumilch) ??
Jay Calvert wrote in message <386A5019...@ctol.net>...
Jerry O'Sullivan
Thank You Jay,
Jerry
Sue McMurray
too cramped with all of our more techie projects). Thanks for the laugh. Sue :)
John H. Cato, Jr.
Bob Kaplow wrote
>In the early 90s Bruce Kelly took over as editor of the TRA magazine, and
>put out a good product, but couldn't hold to a budget. Around 1994, he held
>the magazine hostage and ended up taking ownership of it,
It was 1991 or 1992 (can't remember any more) -- I was sitting in the 'bored'
meetings (and, later, membership meeting) when it 'went down'. It was more a
'blackmail', insofar as Kelly threatened to quit as voluntary editor if he
wasn't given 'ownership' of the magazine. He even had flyers already printed
up and sitting in his briefcase at this infamous 'bored' meeting. As I
recall, his words were along the lines of, "Give me the magazine or I'll quit
and do my own -- and put the 'Tripolitan' (the (TRA-owned) precursor to
'HPR') out of business." (this in the sparsely attended (i.e. just me) bored
meetings - not in the public membership meetings.) The man would never be
fool enough to exhibit such 'Husseinian' arrogance in a public meeting.
After a few years of a nice magazine (compared to the single color, xerox
machine quality that MAY have come out twice a year - as was the standard
prior to this), the members (at least the 'lackeys') freaked at the
possibility of losing the 'improved version' and was willing to give Kelly
anything he wanted. There were, of course, several others at that
'membership' meeting who, equally 'freaked' at the possibility of losing the
only real asset Tripoli had. (TRA prez) Chuck Rogers quelled the uprising by
(basically) just railroading the decision down the member's throats
(capitalizing on the member 'shock' at what was happening). When it was
beginning to get out of hand, he just announced that "The Member's meeting is
over." Actually, the "Member's" meeting never started (since everything that
transpired at this 'meeting' (i.e. motions, votes, the lot) had previously
transpired several days prior (at the 'private' bored meetings)). Of course,
since no member (outside myself and the 'bored' members) there at that
'public' meeting was aware of this fact, they wouldn't know that.
I would say probably fully 1/3 of the members there (several hundred) were
grumbling "blackmail!" while walking back to Bruno's Motel after the meeting
disbanded. Another 1/3 were quietly agreeing with them.
It was a sad day in Tripoli history.
Of course, Tripoli is noted for 'sad days'. Their growing (up) pains have
left several 'carcasses' on the side of the road.
> a violation of IRS 501C3 regs as I understand them.
Look up Publication 556 (Tax Exempt Status for your Organization). There is
NO 'understanding' necessary -- as it is *explicitly* spelled out in that Pub
that "NO" asset shall (ever) inure to the benefit of "any" member of a
non-profit. Ever. That means, if Tripoli were to disband (or be disbanded)
all assets would have to roll over to some *other* non-profit -- they could
*never* legitimately end up in the hands of *any* private individual (whether
he was, or ever had been, a member of Tripoli or not).
> At least as of the time I was "unrenewed"
>in 1996, I never saw a clean financial report that didn't mingle TRA funds
>with Kelly's own HPR funds. Now that HQ has been assimilated into Orem, who
>knows where the membership money goes?
>
>Thus TRA no longer has a magazine, Kelly does. And lately the publication
>schedule has been as consistent as NASA MARS probes.
>
> Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
-- john.
Ted Cochran
pete...@aol.com (PeteAlway) wrote:
>Peter "Am I showing signs of going mad? Honest, you can tell me" Alway
Not nearly as mad as I was after reading the tripe about booster failures...
--tc
Not mad, but a little twisted, as always.
My opinions only.
PeteAlway
>NAR members prefer the VW bug, since since it is economical and easily
large
>enough to transport their entire collection of 73 scale sounding rockets, 9
>models of the Saturn IB (in 9 different scales), 6 Little Joes (I's and
II's),
>43 gliders, 17 egglofters (single and double), 13 helicopters, 5
stupid-rocs
>(all slightly crimped), 8 downscales of Estes kits for Micro Maxx motors,
>flying pencils, flying lamp shades, flying umbrellas, flying coat hangers,
>flying pumpkins, flying badminton birdies, flying Barbies, flying Bunnys,
>flying Happy Meals, etc...
I have never built a flying Bunny. I have built a flying bunny, the
Zvezdotchka Anti-Carrot Missile (plans available at the personal website in my
sig file; follow the Model Rocketry link, then plans) , but I have never done a
flying caricature of the NAR president. I leave that kind of modeling to Bob
Kaplow, and he has not done a Bunny to my knowledge. My interest in bunnies
springs from our furry little pets, Frida and Rudy (photos available at the
personal website in my sig file; follow the Rabbits link), and not an unhealthy
obsession with any member of the board of directors of either the NAR or
Tripoli (photos of none of which are available at the personal website in my
sig file), although many of them, Mr. Bundick included, are fine people.
Peter "Am I showing signs of going mad? Honest, you can tell me" Alway
Saturn Press
PO Box 3709
Ann Arbor, MI 48106-3709
http://members.aol.com/satrnpress/saturn.htm
Free scale data at:
http://personal.physics.lsa.umich.edu/alway/space_rocket.htm
Bob Kaplow
> NAR, on the other hand, remains the guardian of traditional "Model Rocketry"
> and administers competition, insurance, and Sport Rocketry magazine. (Tripoli's
> magazine, "High Power Rocketry," is a nice mag but the center of a political
> turmoil I don't understand.)
In the early 90s Bruce Kelly took over as editor of the TRA magazine, and
put out a good product, but couldn't hold to a budget. Around 1994, he held
the magazine hostage and ended up taking ownership of it, a violation of IRS
501C3 regs as I understand them. At least as of the time I was "unrenewed"
in 1996, I never saw a clean financial report that didn't mingle TRA funds
with Kelly's own HPR funds. Now that HQ has been assimilated into Orem, who
knows where the membership money goes?
Thus TRA no longer has a magazine, Kelly does. And lately the publication
schedule has been as consistent as NASA MARS probes.
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Ctrl-Alt-Del"
Kaplow Klips: http://members.aol.com/myhprcato/KaplowKlips.html (baffle too!)
NIRA: http://www.nira.chicago.il.us NAR: http://www.nar.org
SPAM: spamr...@ChooseYourmail.com u...@ftc.gov postm...@127.0.0.1
dunbar...@my-deja.com
quasar22 <quas...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I have recently become interested in following a childhood dream of
> rocket launching. I have been reading this ng for a couple of months
> trying to gain an understanding of the current state of the art for
> rocketry. Like many other newsgroups, the signal to noise ratio here
is
> very high, and for a newbie it becomes a real challenge to find the
> nugget of truth for some of the core issues.
>
> differences between Tripoli and NAR? Do they work together for common
> good? Do their interests overlap? Do they compete against each other?
>
two
> organizations?
>
Hi,
Here is the straight truth:
NAR: Safe and sane class C fireworks rocketry. Has/had political clout
through the 60s and 70s (von Braun was NAR member #18). NAR was an
alternative to dangerous amateur rocketry. Pretty good in its
beginning, but not as powerful as it used to be.
TRA: Formed in the late 70s (Jerry Irvine influenced; he is another
story all together, but that is for another posting.) as an alternative
to the "safe and sane" fireworks rocketry. Promotes all rocketry
related activities from 1/4 A to "space shots".
The two organizations were "Kane and Able" from the beginning. NAR
looked down its nose at TRA as a cocky organization that had no place in
the national forum. TRA viewed NAR as nerdy "pencil neck geeks" with
slide rulers and pocket protectors. NAR viewed TRA as "redneck
rocketry" and TRA viewed NAR as "NERD rocketry". Both were correct.
Now while both were fighting and bickering about who was wrong, instead
of bickering about WHAT was wrong, they have both had the carpet pulled
from beneath them by the federal government. NAR banked that the
government would crack down on TRA, and leave NAR free and untouched.
They figured wrong. The government has started to crack down on ALL
rocketry, NAR and TRA alike.
Now are in a truce and joining forces to sue the federal government to
regain their member's personal freedoms and rights. "A house divided,
will not stand". Now who said that? Snoop Doggie Dog? Madonna? Oh, I
know Rosie O'Donnell. :)
Jonathan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Art Malin
<snip>
>"A house divided, will not stand". Now who said that?
>
IIRC, JC
Art Malin
NAR #76426
Bob Kaplow
> Here is the straight truth:
????? From Jon ?????
> NAR: Safe and sane class C fireworks rocketry. Has/had political clout
> through the 60s and 70s
NAR had enough clout in the 80s to sue the FAA and get the regs changed so
now we can fly 454-1500g rockets without needing waivers. Hopefully they
still have enough to deal with the BATF.
> NAR was an
> alternative to dangerous amateur rocketry. Pretty good in its
> beginning, but not as powerful as it used to be.
Membership is currently at levels on par with the peaks of the 70s. Several
times it looked like it might hit an all time high, but it's always fallen
just short.
> TRA: Formed in the late 70s (Jerry Irvine influenced; he is another
> story all together, but that is for another posting.)
Boy you got that right. Lots of folks were involved more than Jerry.
Probably Steele and Pearson in hosting the first LDRSs.
> as an alternative
> to the "safe and sane" fireworks rocketry.
Here I have to agree with Jon. Tra *WAS* founded as an alternative to the
NAR. It is truely one of the mistakes the NAR made in the early 80s. They've
definitely learned their lesson and changed for the better.
But I have to ask what is the alternative to "safe and sane"? "Unsafe and
Insane"? I can't argue with Jon over that!
That would certainly match with some of the early TRA events. But they have
made a lot of progress since that rough beginning. Then the management took
giant leaps back to the dark ages. One of these days the "experimental"
rocketry, which is closer to basement bomber than real amateur rocketry, is
going to catch up with TRA and bit them in the a$$.
Many years ago, when TRA finally implemented a safety code (refered to as
guidelines instead of rules by several board members), started certifying
motors, etc. I predicted that shortly they would become as regimented as the
hated NAR, and the outlaws would again leave the organization. I freely
admit I was wrong. The outlaws have taken over, and it is my belief that TRA
is trying to promote amateur to basement bomber activities, and pass them
off to regulatory agencies as nothing more than big model rockets.
> Promotes all rocketry
> related activities from 1/4 A to "space shots".
I've never seen any encouragement for anything short of maybe F and above in
TRA. I've been to TRA launches when anything less than an F was outright
prohibited. There is only one organization that truely supports 1/4A-N
today, and that is the NAR. I think this will become more obvious over the
next year or so, as the NAR continues to roll out both its RSO training
program, and its level 3 program.
> NAR banked that the
> government would crack down on TRA, and leave NAR free and untouched.
That is pure BS. The NAR HAS worried that TRA will rock the boat and sink
the whole hobby. TRA has now put themselves in a position of supporting
sport rocketry along with amateur rocketry, a position that some day WILL
create problems for both "them and us" if it is not rectified. Soon.
I've seen a lot of good things come out of TRA in its 15 years, and a lot of
good people do a lot of very creative things. But I've also seen a lot of
stupidity. Sadly, most of it comes from the management, not the membership.
There is a lot the TRA board could learn from the NAR. And it has nothing to
do with flying rockets. And EVERYTHING to do with flying rockets.
JDcluster
As a matter of fact our club ( METRA) a TRA club launches everything from 1/4 A to K (which is
what our field will allow) .
It seems that you have such a narrow mined view on TRA actions . Yeah , TRA might not of made the
best decisions in the past , but You are still shooting them down one way or another .
You speak of TRA as an illegitimate child of the NAR .
NAR has had their problems too. It may not involve these basement bomber conventions that you
speak of ,but If the NAR was "ALL THAT " than why are they trying to follow TRA with a L3 program
???
Let's stop the bickering & just get along ,
JD
Bob Kaplow wrote:
> I've never seen any encouragement for anything short of maybe F and above in
> TRA. I've been to TRA launches when anything less than an F was outright
> prohibited. There is only one organization that truely supports 1/4A-N
> today, and that is the NAR. I think this will become more obvious over the
> next year or so, as the NAR continues to roll out both its RSO training
> program, and its level 3 program.
>
> > NAR banked that the
> > government would crack down on TRA, and leave NAR free and untouched.
>
> That is pure BS. The NAR HAS worried that TRA will rock the boat and sink
> the whole hobby. TRA has now put themselves in a position of supporting
> sport rocketry along with amateur rocketry, a position that some day WILL
> create problems for both "them and us" if it is not rectified. Soon.
>
> I've seen a lot of good things come out of TRA in its 15 years, and a lot of
> good people do a lot of very creative things. But I've also seen a lot of
> stupidity. Sadly, most of it comes from the management, not the membership.
> There is a lot the TRA board could learn from the NAR. And it has nothing to
> do with flying rockets. And EVERYTHING to do with flying rockets.
> --
"If it doesn't fly straight: stick a bigger motor in it we'll make it fly straight "
Don't forget to remove:"spambuster" from reply Address .
Mailto:jdcl...@nac.net
Jeff Davenport
TRA: 4486 L2 LEUP
METRA: TRA #94
NAR: 63238 L2
jdcl...@nac.net
My web page: http://www.users.nac.net/jdcluster/JDindex.html
Metra Web Page: http://www.users.nac.net/jdcluster/Metra.html
Norman Heyen
news:1999Dec30.142005.1@eisner...
> I've never seen any encouragement for anything short of maybe F and above
in
> TRA. I've been to TRA launches when anything less than an F was outright
> prohibited. There is only one organization that truely supports 1/4A-N
> today, and that is the NAR. I think this will become more obvious over the
> next year or so, as the NAR continues to roll out both its RSO training
> program, and its level 3 program.
Those hated TRA folks up at Bong would disagree with that statement. While I
am an NAR member, I include myself with this bunch of folks. We fly 1/4A to
M as often as possible. Typically about half the flights are Estes. The
prefect calls the Estes pads what gets the next generation of HPR fliers
ready. And is a lure for Dad to bring Junior along, so they can both fly
what they want. And it is not just kids flying Estes.
Norman
Mike Pearson <see .sig>
<quote from a Dunbar message...>
> >"A house divided, will not stand". Now who said that?
> >
>
> IIRC, JC
Which message thread?
I read almost all of his posts, but don't remember seeing John Cato say
any such thing, at least recently....
;-)
--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr/Insured/Level-1 ~ SeaNAR - The Seattle NAR Section #568
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] blarg [dot] net.
<WARNING: Do not look into laser beam with remaining eye!>
Alan
news:19991229200306...@ng-fs1.aol.com...
Top secret NAR archives hint that Estes once had a kit originally called
Astron Bunny but changed to Astron Space Man to avoid lawsuits from the
NAR president in the far future. Click the link below to see a photo of
this rocket. Is this a striking resemblence to anyone you know? :-)
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Station/8452/spaceman.html
Estes was certainly innovative in those days! :-)
--
Alan Bland
gordo[at]pcisys.net
Former NAR member 70's-80's
Former Lord of the Universe
Dale Greene
>
> NAR members wear propeller beanies, pocket protectors, and have a
207-function
> scientific calculator on their key chain (next to the VW keys). The
NAR "old
> timers" prefer a slide rule, because it's "more fun".
> NAR members debate the relative merits of serving a Zinfandel or a
> Liebfraumilch with the quiche and eggs benedict
Yes I wear a pocket protector - and eggs benedict is infinitly better
that an egg McMuffin. But "real NAR menbers don't eat quiche!"
God did I date myself with that one!
--
Dale Greene - President
Southern Pennsylvania Area Association of Rocketry Section 503
http://www.cyberia.com/pages/feveryear/spaar/index.htm
"willing to make mistakes if someone else is willing to learn from them"
Jackbearjr
>> >
>>
>> IIRC, JC
>Which message thread?
>
>I read almost all of his posts, but don't remember seeing John Cato say
>any such thing
He didn't.
Jesus Christ; The Sermon on the Mount started the initial thread, then it was
changed to Re: Pharisees.
Jack W. Kale, Jr. NAR #70384 Insured, Tripoli #5798 Level 2
Timmy, you can't take it with you, so if you have a sandwich and your blue
jeans, chill. Your old man, Paul. (1st century, paraphrased)
JPSARTRE12
>From: pete...@aol.com (PeteAlway)
>Date: Wed, 29 December 1999 08:03 PM EST
>Message-id: <19991229200306...@ng-fs1.aol.com>
>I have never built a flying Bunny. I have built a flying bunny, the
>Zvezdotchka Anti-Carrot Missile (plans available at the personal website in
>my
>sig file; follow the Model Rocketry link, then plans) , but I have never done
>a
>flying caricature of the NAR president.
I can attest to Peter's skill at building an anti-carrot rocket. In drag races
against my carrot, Peter's rabbit is 2-0. The carrot, taking one look at the
rabbit on the pad next to it, typically became an ICBC and planted itself in
the dirt hundreds of yards downrange. But when the carrot flew without the
rabbit's influence, the flights were usually nominal.
Mark Simpson
NAR 71503 Level II
Bob Kaplow
> Top secret NAR archives hint that Estes once had a kit originally called
> Astron Bunny but changed to Astron Space Man to avoid lawsuits from the
> NAR president in the far future. Click the link below to see a photo of
> this rocket. Is this a striking resemblence to anyone you know? :-)
To me, the original art always looked a bit like G. Harry. Many years back I
scaled one of these up and put J. Pat Miller's face on it.
As to faces on rockets, I also at the instigation of an RMR post, built
"Ayatolah Potatoe Head" with Bruce Kelly's mugshot on it.
Bunny's probably been shaking his rabbits foot hoping I don't get around to
him!
Bruce Kirchner
>Those hated TRA folks up at Bong would disagree with that statement. While I
am an NAR member, I include myself with this bunch of folks. We fly 1/4A to M<
Ditto, the evil Michigan Team 1 Prefecture # 9 locates the "Estes Pad" right in
front of the spectator line to discourage young fliers by making them walk 15'
to the pads. I must admit it, we are so prejudiced against low power that we
don't even charge launch fees for anything under an F. We allow, fly and enjoy
rockets powered by 1/4 A and up.
On the other hand, my NAR club won't let me fly a J motor at their launches!
:-)
--
Bruce Kirchner
TRA L2 #5888 NAR #69850
Michigan Team 1 HUVARS
Visit My Rocketry Home Page - http://members.aol.com/balthezar/index.html
Proud Gun Owner!
Dean Roth
> On the other hand, my NAR club won't let me fly a J motor at their launches!
> :-)
Which of the options listed below are the reasons?
1. The club does not have equipment suitable for that rocket/motor size.
2. The club does not have a sufficiently sized field.
3. Outside of yourself the club does not have experience with larger
rockets/motors
and does not want a flier to safety inspect their own rockets.
4. Club officers have seen you fly rockets and have wisely limited motor
size.
:-)
--
dean _ roth at yahoo dot com
Bruce Kirchner
>Which of the options listed below are the reasons?
1. The club does not have equipment suitable for that rocket/motor size.
2. The club does not have a sufficiently sized field.
3. Outside of yourself the club does not have experience with larger
rockets/motors and does not want a flier to safety inspect their own rockets.
4. Club officers have seen you fly rockets and have wisely limited motor size.
:-) <
Numbers 1 and 2 for sure!
OK...maybe number 4 also!
Still mad at me about 3 Oaks eh?
Jack Wiker
Jack Wiker
Bob Kaplow wrote:
> In article <3870DEB3...@see.below.com>, Dean Roth <spam...@see.below.com> writes:
> > Bruce Kirchner wrote:
> >> On the other hand, my NAR club won't let me fly a J motor at their launches!
> >> :-)
> >
> > Which of the options listed below are the reasons?
> >
> > 1. The club does not have equipment suitable for that rocket/motor size.
> > 2. The club does not have a sufficiently sized field.
> > 3. Outside of yourself the club does not have experience with larger
> > rockets/motors
> > and does not want a flier to safety inspect their own rockets.
> > 4. Club officers have seen you fly rockets and have wisely limited motor
> > size.
>
> I can't speak for other clubs, but NIRAs regular site is limited to LMR (FAR
> 101.22 because of both the size of the site and the minor detail that we are
> UNDER the O'Hare controlled airspace. We do notification to 3000' only.
>
> At the sod farm, we've been getting a mile waiver, and given sufficient
> launch system wire, can handle anything that stays under that limit. We've
> also not got any L3 fliers, yet...
Mark B. Bundick
Kaplow) wrote:
>Bunny's probably been shaking his rabbits foot hoping I don't get around to
>him!
Whatever.
Once you've been sued for anti-trust actions, nothing else can hurt
you.
============================================================================
Mark B. Bundick 1350 Lilac Lane !7015...@notspamto.compuserve.com!
NAR President Carol Stream, IL 60188 http://www.nar.org
Bob Kaplow
Bob Kaplow
> Once you've been sued for anti-trust actions, nothing else can hurt
> you.
Is this the bank, or the NAR???
Fred Shecter
We trust you.
-Shread Vector NRA#1 Paramount Leader
"Mark B. Bundick" <7015...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:38715895....@news.earthlink.net...
> On Fri, 31 Dec 1999 19:31:03 GMT, kapl...@eisner.decus.org (Bob
> Kaplow) wrote:
>
> >Bunny's probably been shaking his rabbits foot hoping I don't get around
to
> >him!
>
> Whatever.
>
> Once you've been sued for anti-trust actions, nothing else can hurt
> you.
>
>
Bob Kaplow
> Bob...can I get directions, and times...for the sod farm flights?
We've not yet planned anything for Y2K. Come to the NIRA meetign Friday and
we'll see what we decide.
Bob Kaplow
> "Anti-trust"????
>
> We trust you.
Say, what happens if you combine trust and anti-trust. Is there a big
explosion? Maybe we better keep Bunny and Jerry Irvine apart :-)
--
Joe Pfeiffer
sort of follow-on project to the Flying Barbie...
--
Joseph J. Pfeiffer, Jr., Ph.D. Phone -- (505) 646-1605
Department of Computer Science FAX -- (505) 646-1002
New Mexico State University http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~pfeiffer
VL 2000 Homepage: http://www.cs.orst.edu/~burnett/vl2000/
Sue McMurray
Dan Schneider
>
>Say, what happens if you combine trust and anti-trust. Is there a big
>explosion? Maybe we better keep Bunny and Jerry Irvine apart :-)
Unless you're talking about magnetic properties. Opposites attract. In that
vane, it brings up some pretty scarry metal imagery.
:-)
Dan Schneider
Poseidon@Rocketryonline
http://home.postnet.com/~poseidon
Darren J Longhorn
Joe Pfeiffer wrote in message <1b9025x...@viper.cs.nmsu.edu>...
>Whenever I see this subject line, my first thought is that it is some
>sort of follow-on project to the Flying Barbie...
We had a flying bunny at the International Rocket Week in Largs, Scotland.
Space Bunny ( May he rest in peace) was a true adventurer, made from The
Right Stuff. Unfortunately we didn't have any of the right stuff to patch
him up with after his last adventure. We tried fibre glass, but sadly he
passed away during the night. :-(