[ALL] - hoping to get Amyl Nitrate - engine fuel?
lev muznik
because I have a custome designed engine called Oliver Tiger Major 3.47
which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
The factory discussed above was a private factory, and I bought the
engine in 1964. (the engine uses the variable combustion chamber method
known as Diesel engine).
The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
(chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
material, later I found that is a very strong drug also used to enrich
the sex-life of its users (not only the fuel for their model's engine).
therefore it is not being sold at "a shop close to your home".
I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
Walter Gomes
You are right in that it was an abused drug whenever.But your also wrong,
in that it is a legitimate additive to model diesel fuel (Not to be
confused with diesel from the pump).
As I understand it Amyl nitrate reduces the energy of activation (Ea) of
the of the ether (something else that could be abused) which reduces the
Ea of the kerosine (which I suppose you could abuse also). It's use is in
starting the reaction and it comprises only 1% to 3% of the mixture. One
of my good friends is a Ph.D in biophysical chemistry and if your really
interested I could get you a much better explanation.
I also race my volkswagon and again (in my limited understanding),
Nitrous oxide yeilds a huge performance boost by increasing the amount of
availably oxygen to the fuel/air mixture thereby increasing the amount of
energy in each combustion cycle.
NO2 can be and is abused, but the vast majority of racers who use it in
thier cars do not have the mental concentration to spare and get "high"
on the adrenalin of racing.
Be careful, your prejudice is showing
Walter
David A. Gell
# lev muznik (ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il) wrote:
# : I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
# : because I have a custome designed engine called Oliver Tiger Major 3.47
# : which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
#
# : The factory discussed above was a private factory, and I bought the
# : engine in 1964. (the engine uses the variable combustion chamber method
# : known as Diesel engine).
#
# : The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
# : (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
# : material, later I found that is a very strong drug also used to enrich
# : the sex-life of its users (not only the fuel for their model's engine).
# : therefore it is not being sold at "a shop close to your home".
#
# : I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
# : possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
#
# Shalom, y'all. I think that you may be thinking of nitromethane,
# not amyl nitrate. Nitromethane is commonly used as an additive in fuels
# for racing engines both large and small. During WWII, certain aircraft
# engines were boosted by injecting nitrous oxide into the fuel stream for
# a quick punch, a trick still used in some drag racing automobiles.
# Unfortunately, nitromethane has fallen into official disfavour in the US
# because some folks like to mix it with ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel
# and then blow up people and buildings with it. Not good for those of us with
# high-performance engines and otherwise peaceful attitudes. Come to think
# of it, depending on your political affiliations, the combination of
# remotely-piloted aircraft and ......
# Too bad I can't type Hebrew on this system. Bye. Sid Washer.
Actually, nitromethane is a common fuel additive. Most glow fuels sold in
the US have some in it. At low percentages, 5% to 10% it improves idling,
higher percentages provide much more power.
The additive that Lev Muznik is asking about, Amyl Nitrate, is commonly
used in model diesel engines. Try Davis Diesel as a source.
David A. Gell | Computers:
University of Michigan | Making difficult what was
Space Physics Research Lab | formerly impossible.
http://www.umich.edu/~gellda |
Bob Fogg
>
> lev muznik <ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
> >> The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
>
> You are correct about this supposed "fuel additive" being a controlled
> substance. It is both a legitimate medication for heart patients and an
> abused drug due to its effect on the circulatory system & increased blood
> pressure in certain areas of the body. Not to put too fine a point on it,
> this was apparently a popular black market drug in the seventies among
> males of "alternative" persuasions, that is until permanent physical
> damages were found to be a side-effect. The non-prescription compound
> which may or may not have the same basic chemical properties is butyl
> nitrate. I believe this is also a slow death for drug abusers.
>
> I think it is very suspicious that any engine manufacturer would specify
> that such an unusual and dangerous chemical compound be used as a fuel
> additive. Engines of all types from Wankel to pulse jet have operated
> successfully for years without such bizarre additives.
>
> This reminds me of the claims that nitrous oxide, as sold for use in
> racing engine performance "enhancement" systems, is only used for that
> purpose. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of all nitrous oxide sold
> for racing purposes ends up being inhaled, instead of being burned in an
> engine.
>
> Anyway, I think that someone's leg is being pulled here. I am posting
> this info in the hope that newsgroup readers will not unwittingly become
> involved in procuring dangerous and illegal controlled substances for
> illegimate purposes. Of, course, I could be wrong, and heart medicine
> could be just the thing to add to your fuel to win that next race.... ;)
> ;) ;)
>
> Any comments from others more informed on this particular subject?
Amyl Nitrate was (maybe still is?) a common fuel additive for C/L
Team Race Diesel engines. I know of at least one who still uses it.
Bob Fogg
Corndogger
racing engine performance "enhancement" systems, is only used for that
purpose. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of all nitrous oxide sold
for racing purposes ends up being inhaled, instead of being burned in an
engine.>>
Actually, the nitrous oxide sold in automotive performance shops for
automotive use has an additive (unknown what exactly it is) that will make
an abuser *very* ill if they inhale it. FYI...
Chris Boultinghouse
Sid Washer
: I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
: The factory discussed above was a private factory, and I bought the
: engine in 1964. (the engine uses the variable combustion chamber method
: known as Diesel engine).
: The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
: (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
: material, later I found that is a very strong drug also used to enrich
: the sex-life of its users (not only the fuel for their model's engine).
: therefore it is not being sold at "a shop close to your home".
: I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
: possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
Shalom, y'all. I think that you may be thinking of nitromethane,
not amyl nitrate. Nitromethane is commonly used as an additive in fuels
for racing engines both large and small. During WWII, certain aircraft
engines were boosted by injecting nitrous oxide into the fuel stream for
a quick punch, a trick still used in some drag racing automobiles.
Unfortunately, nitromethane has fallen into official disfavour in the US
because some folks like to mix it with ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel
and then blow up people and buildings with it. Not good for those of us with
high-performance engines and otherwise peaceful attitudes. Come to think
of it, depending on your political affiliations, the combination of
remotely-piloted aircraft and ......
trent hare
>I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
>I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
> possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
>
Automobile parts stores have additives called "Cetane Booster" which has
the ingredients you are looking for. "Cetane" relates to Diesel, as
"Octane" relates to Gasoline. You may have to add up to 10% of the
"additive" because it is not pure amyl nitrate, but rather several
ignition enhancers suspended in a light oil.
Trent
Tim Jensen
> lev muznik <ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
> >> The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
> (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
>
> You are correct about this supposed "fuel additive" being a controlled
> substance. It is both a legitimate medication for heart patients and an
> abused drug due to its effect on the circulatory system & increased blood
> pressure in certain areas of the body. Not to put too fine a point on it,
> this was apparently a popular black market drug in the seventies among
> males of "alternative" persuasions, that is until permanent physical
> damages were found to be a side-effect. The non-prescription compound
> which may or may not have the same basic chemical properties is butyl
> nitrate. I believe this is also a slow death for drug abusers.
>
> I think it is very suspicious that any engine manufacturer would specify
> that such an unusual and dangerous chemical compound be used as a fuel
> additive. Engines of all types from Wankel to pulse jet have operated
> successfully for years without such bizarre additives.
>
> racing engine performance "enhancement" systems, is only used for that
> purpose. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of all nitrous oxide sold
> for racing purposes ends up being inhaled, instead of being burned in an
> engine.
>
> this info in the hope that newsgroup readers will not unwittingly become
> involved in procuring dangerous and illegal controlled substances for
> illegimate purposes. Of, course, I could be wrong, and heart medicine
> could be just the thing to add to your fuel to win that next race.... ;)
> ;) ;)
>
> Any comments from others more informed on this particular subject?
It is not at all suspicious that a diesel engine manufacturer would
reccommend amyl nitrate. It is a very common c-tane enhancer used by
many suppliers of diesel fuel. It is sold as a product known as powermaster
405 ( im not entirely sure of the number; it could be 205) and is available
in some truck stops. It is also available from good old Red Max in 1 gallon
quantities, for I believe about 30 bucks a gallon. Maybe a little cheaper.
When I called them I priced both ether and amyl nitrate and I may have the
prices mixed up. Better yet why not just purchase a commercially available
model diesel fuel such as Red Max or Davis Diesel. It already has amyl nitrate
in it, and should run your engine fine.
I don't mean to be presumptious reccommending only American suppliers. I am
just only familiar with them. With the popularity of diesels in Europe, I
can't imagine not being able to buy it from many suppliers all over the
world.
Michael Shellim
compression ignition. Amyl Nitrate was routinely put into diesel fuel in
the UK where diesels used to be quite popular in the sixties and
seventies, and in fact they are still popular for control-line
(U-control).
They have been undergoing something of a resurgence lately with engines
from Irvine and others - most of the old problems of poor throttle
response and vibration seem to have been overcome in the new engines. And
the fuel smells good, too...
==========================
Mike Shellim
msh...@cix.compulink.co.uk
==========================
Martin Usher
Goran Olsson, Plasma Physics, KTH
>lev muznik <ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
>>> The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
> (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
> material, later I found that is a very strong drug...<<
>
>You are correct about this supposed "fuel additive" being a controlled
>substance. It is both a legitimate medication for heart patients and an
>abused drug due to its effect on the circulatory system & increased blood
>pressure in certain areas of the body. Not to put too fine a point on it,
>this was apparently a popular black market drug in the seventies among
>males of "alternative" persuasions, that is until permanent physical
>damages were found to be a side-effect.
Here you are confusing amyl nitrate with amyl nitrite, with an 'i'.
The latter is the poisonous drug, while amyl nitrate is relatively
harmless.
>I think it is very suspicious that any engine manufacturer would specify
>that such an unusual and dangerous chemical compound be used as a fuel
>additive. Engines of all types from Wankel to pulse jet have operated
>successfully for years without such bizarre additives.
>
Amyl nitrate is the classical additive for diesel fuel, absolutely
essential for high rpm diesel running. The addition of to the fuel 3%
poses no hazard.
Many other organic nitrates (and nitrites, although they should be
avoided.) are also useful: Iso-propyl nitrate, hexyl nitrate and so on.
There is a commercial product from Ethyl Corp. "Diesel Ignition
Improver", which is a mixture of many nitrates. If you want less than a
barrel :-), you can get it from Nelson Competition Engines. (I'm afraid
I haven't the address right now.)
>Anyway, I think that someone's leg is being pulled here. I am posting
>this info in the hope that newsgroup readers will not unwittingly become
>involved in procuring dangerous and illegal controlled substances for
>illegimate purposes. Of, course, I could be wrong, and heart medicine
>could be just the thing to add to your fuel to win that next race.... ;)
Not so. Learn some about diesel engines.
A typical fuel for FAI Control Line Team Race, where .15 size diesels
are used at around 25,000 RPM is: Castor oil 8%, Diethyl Ether 35%, Amyl
Nitrate or DII 2%, remainder Kerosene.
The Nitrate works as an igniter and combustion catalyst, allowing high
RPM operation without a compression setting high enough to damage the
engine.
More C/L info on my www page.
=========================================================================
Control Line Team Racing: Fly as fast and far as possible on 7 cc of fuel
- then refuel and repeat until 10 kilometers is reached.
Goran Olsson, Stockholm, Sweden
ols...@plasma.kth.se
http://www.plasma.kth.se/www/info/al/alp/space/engr-gol.html
=========================================================================
Agust H. Bjarnason
> lev muznik (ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il) wrote:
>: I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
>: which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
>
>: The factory discussed above was a private factory, and I bought the
>: engine in 1964. (the engine uses the variable combustion chamber method
>: known as Diesel engine).
>
>: the sex-life of its users (not only the fuel for their model's engine).
>: therefore it is not being sold at "a shop close to your home".
>
>: possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
This is probably the substance I once bought from Davis Diesel in
the USA. If I remember correctly it was called Cetane Booster.
I used this as a fuel additive when I was experimenting with
a diesel conversion head from Davis about 10 years ago.
Regards
Agust
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
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Thytur, The Aeromodellers Club in Iceland:
http://rvik.ismennt.is/~agbjarn/thytur.html
Bruce Simpson
> Many other organic nitrates (and nitrites, although they should be
> avoided.) are also useful: Iso-propyl nitrate, hexyl nitrate and so on.
> There is a commercial product from Ethyl Corp. "Diesel Ignition
> Improver", which is a mixture of many nitrates. If you want less than a
> barrel :-), you can get it from Nelson Competition Engines. (I'm afraid
> I haven't the address right now.)
I seem to recall playing around with toluene, heptane and nitropropane
in my youthful attempts to extract more power from my diesel engines.
I expect that these are now considered carcinogenic and illegal by now.
:-)
+--[fixed-price specialist software development over the net]---+
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| Auckland, New Zealand | ph: +64 9 4202554 fax: +64 9 4202762 |
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Charlie Stone 619 262 5390
: lev muznik (ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il) wrote:
: : I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
: : because I have a custome designed engine called Oliver Tiger Major 3.47
: : which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
: : I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
: : possibly get this material or an authorized substance.
You have not made a mistake. Amyl Nitrate was routinely used as an
ignition improver for model diesel engines for many years. It is now
virtually unobtainable, and if available, no doubt the price would not
bear thinking about. Some form of ignition improver is necessary to
get the best out of any Diesel engine.
Chemicals that you may be able to get that can do the job are:
Amyl nitrite
Iso propyl nitrate
Hexyl nitrate
Stuff called by the generic name `DII' (Diesel Ignition Improver)
It can be bought from the engine manufacturer Henry Nelson - check
one of the current model magazines for the address of Nelson engines
as I dont have one by me at present. For a while there was also an
additive for truck diesels (full size) called `anti knock', it was
marketed by Wynns products. You might be able to locate some of that
but although I haven't used it myself, I hear that you may need 4% to 5%
to have any affect. The best option is to contact Henry Nelson.
Percentages for use will usually vary between 1% and 3%.
Charlie Stone
.............................................................................
: :
: :
: \--------------------------(^)--------------------------/ :
: ___|___ :
: :
: cst...@netbsd08.dn.itg.telecom.com.au :
:...........................................................................:
: Charlie Stone. : A Control Line modeller who has :
: Perth, Western Australia. : retired from flying full scale Gliders,:
: : prefers to use Imperial measurement, :
: : and likes the Australian flag as it is :
:..................................:........................................:
Bill Lee
>lev muznik <ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il> writes:
> (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
>
>You are correct about this supposed "fuel additive" being a controlled
>substance. It is both a legitimate medication for heart patients and an
>abused drug due to its effect on the circulatory system & increased blood
>pressure in certain areas of the body. Not to put too fine a point on it,
>this was apparently a popular black market drug in the seventies among
>males of "alternative" persuasions, that is until permanent physical
>which may or may not have the same basic chemical properties is butyl
>nitrate. I believe this is also a slow death for drug abusers.
>
>that such an unusual and dangerous chemical compound be used as a fuel
>additive. Engines of all types from Wankel to pulse jet have operated
>successfully for years without such bizarre additives.
>
>racing engine performance "enhancement" systems, is only used for that
>purpose. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of all nitrous oxide sold
>for racing purposes ends up being inhaled, instead of being burned in an
>engine.
>
>this info in the hope that newsgroup readers will not unwittingly become
>involved in procuring dangerous and illegal controlled substances for
>illegimate purposes. Of, course, I could be wrong, and heart medicine
>could be just the thing to add to your fuel to win that next race.... ;)
>
>Any comments from others more informed on this particular subject?
Sheesh!
Nothing to be suspicious of, Don.
Yes, Amyl nitrate is (was) used in small percentages in diesel model
engines. However, I think the problem drug is amyl nitrite. (Goran
Olsson can set this straight.)
A suitable relplacement is "Diesel Ignition Improver" manufactured
by the Ethyl corporation. The typical source in this country is
Henry Nelson. 1-1/2 to 2% is the typical amount.
Regards,
Bill Lee
Bruce Bennett
Lev: Henry Nelson carries this exact diesel ignition improver. Call him at (412)
538-5282
- Bruce
Iskandar Taib
DonCAyers <donc...@aol.com> wrote:
>I think it is very suspicious that any engine manufacturer would specify
>that such an unusual and dangerous chemical compound be used as a fuel
>additive. Engines of all types from Wankel to pulse jet have operated
>successfully for years without such bizarre additives.
You're forgetting one major class of engine - the model diesel. It is
indeed used as an anti-detonation additive in model diesel fuel. The
Oliver Tiger is indeed a diesel.
>This reminds me of the claims that nitrous oxide, as sold for use in
>racing engine performance "enhancement" systems, is only used for that
>purpose. I'd guess that a sizable percentage of all nitrous oxide sold
>for racing purposes ends up being inhaled, instead of being burned in an
>engine.
No, they add a tiny percentage of SO2 to the N2O to make it
unsniffable. Theres been quite a bit of talk about it on
rec.models.rockets.
>Anyway, I think that someone's leg is being pulled here. I am posting
>this info in the hope that newsgroup readers will not unwittingly become
>involved in procuring dangerous and illegal controlled substances for
>illegimate purposes. Of, course, I could be wrong, and heart medicine
>could be just the thing to add to your fuel to win that next race.... ;)
No, his leg isn't being pulled..
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: nt...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu | Frog is Frog ala Peach
Home page: http://bigwig.geology.indiana.edu/iskandar/isk2.html
Iskandar Taib
>Please note that the engine is Europeon. I'll bet therefore that it is a
>diesel. I know several people who fly C/L team race and Amyl Nitrate was
>a required part of their fuel. I don't know if that is what they are
>still using, but I could find out for you if you are really interested.
>Actually, I would try Davis Diesel fuel first.
The Oliver Tiger was the "Nelson" of the pre-1976 British Combat
scene. Very rare. I think they were hand-made, or at least
hand-fitted.
Martin Usher
nitrate.
2) This stuff was not controlled a few years back (but I suspect it
should have been).
3) People are going to get off on all sorts of odd things - even model
glue (the toluene in old solvent glues was a favorite, I believe).
Whatever a persons' opinion is of these practises its inappropriate to
try to supress knowledge 'just in case'. "Does it really matter?"
4) The most reliable source of nitrous oxide for the sniffing brigade
used to be the propellant in aerosol dairy products - cream toppings and
the like. Burying one's face in a pile of cream in the hope you get a
whiff of N2O certainly plums new depths in grossness, but people have
been known to do it!
(PS The author, while an avid observer 'in the old days' never quite got
that low........)
Ken Fong
in the same percentages as amyl nitrate. I used to run team-race
diesels in my control-line days and this worked very well.
You could also try Davis Diesel developments or Nelson Competition
Engines as they both have lots of experience in diesels.
Ken Fong
lev muznik <ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
> because I have a custome designed engine called Oliver Tiger Major 3.47
> which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
>The factory discussed above was a private factory, and I bought the
> engine in 1964. (the engine uses the variable combustion chamber method
> known as Diesel engine).
>The particular engine requires a special add - 3% or Amyl Nitrate
> (chemical formula - C5H11ONO2), alas - I couldn't get hold of such a
> material, later I found that is a very strong drug also used to enrich
> the sex-life of its users (not only the fuel for their model's engine).
> therefore it is not being sold at "a shop close to your home".
>I would very much appreciate it if someone here could tell me where I
xno...@levels.unisa.edu.au
> lev muznik (ta...@www-mail.huji.ac.il) wrote:
> : I've looked around the world for a fuel enricher called Amyl Nitrate
> : because I have a custome designed engine called Oliver Tiger Major 3.47
> : which was manufactured by J.A and J.S Oliver in frendown Dorset UK.
>
> not amyl nitrate. Nitromethane is commonly used as an additive in fuels
amylnitrate is the correct stuff for Diesels ... Have you tried a local
chemist.
It is also known as Rush (a sniffing drug :-) and Banana Flavor (Essence)
Talk to a food industry Chemist.
regards, Kym
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Iskandar Taib
Bruce Simpson <br...@qnx.nacjack.gen.nz> wrote:
>I seem to recall playing around with toluene, heptane and nitropropane
>in my youthful attempts to extract more power from my diesel engines.
>
>I expect that these are now considered carcinogenic and illegal by now.
>:-)
What, no nitrobenzene? ^_^;;;
(I messed with nitrobenzene in my youth and lived to tell about it.. )
Iskandar Taib
Martin Usher <PFB...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>4) The most reliable source of nitrous oxide for the sniffing brigade
>used to be the propellant in aerosol dairy products - cream toppings and
>the like. Burying one's face in a pile of cream in the hope you get a
>whiff of N2O certainly plums new depths in grossness, but people have
>been known to do it!
^O^
Actually, no.. the way they did it was to buy the little bulbs that
contained the N2O. These bulbs were like the ones you use in BB guns,
or the "Sparkletts" bulbs used in CO2 Power (which were really for
making home-made soda). The bigger confectioners, bakeries, etc. had
machines that took the bulbs and made whipped cream.
The N2O for automotive use has been denatured with SO2 (which makes it
unsniffable).
Iskandar Taib
Michael Shellim <msh...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
>They have been undergoing something of a resurgence lately with engines
>from Irvine and others - most of the old problems of poor throttle
>response and vibration seem to have been overcome in the new engines. And
>the fuel smells good, too...
I've heard that the main problems with the old motors was simply
because they were _old_ motors - the designs dated back to god knows
when...
Apply modern schnuerle porting, tapered sleeves, ABC piston/liners,
etc. to diesels and they run and throttle very well indeed, more like
a modern glow. The newer ones can also run well at high RPM - the old
ones supposedly liked big props and low RPMs.
But the fuel smelling good?? One of the main complaints about diesels
was that they STANK. On the other hand, the exhaust supposedly does
smell just like a jet...