Glow Plug Thread Sizes
Mark_Balch
Tower and was happy to have an engine for my Super Sportster .40 in
progress. Everything looked great until I decided to swap the
included SuperTigre plug with one of my Fox's. I use the Fox plugs
with my OS .40FP and they work fine. The Fox plug would not
thread into the ST's head. Hmm... I tried an OS #8 (standard) and
had no luck. On close comparison, the included ST plug had a finer
pitcch than my Fox and OS plugs did. The ST plug would not thread
properly into my OS engine. All of a sudden, I decided to try a
brand X plug that I had bought from my hobby shop last year but
had never used. It threaded into my ST perfectly but, like the ST
plug, would not thread properly into my OS.
What's up here? I thought that all plugs were threaded the same way.
My R/C guru was also stumped and that means that things are weird!
[ :) Dave ] Does anyone know about a second "standard" plug thread
that is used in the US? I'm going to return my ST engine because
I don't want to bother with what I consider a non-standard thread.
However, I am still curious as to why ST ships with a different
pitch and why I was sold a matching plug at my hobby shop a year ago.
Thanks in advance for the help.
Iskandar Taib
Mark_Balch <ma...@alf.cooper.edu> wrote:
>What's up here? I thought that all plugs were threaded the same way.
>My R/C guru was also stumped and that means that things are weird!
>[ :) Dave ] Does anyone know about a second "standard" plug thread
>that is used in the US? I'm going to return my ST engine because
>I don't want to bother with what I consider a non-standard thread.
>However, I am still curious as to why ST ships with a different
>pitch and why I was sold a matching plug at my hobby shop a year ago.
I've always thought that glow plugs (except the Nelson plugs and the
ST Speed plugs and other weird kinds) were threaded 1/4-28. I've had
several ST motors and several OS motors and all the plugs I've had fit
all of them, including some weird Russian plugs I bought over the
summer and some ST Racing plugs I bought off Tower's inventory
reduction sale a year ago. (By the way.. Tee Dee .049 venturis are
threaded 1/4-28 too - make em out of burned out glowplugs)
Try this small experiment. Lay the threads of the Fox and ST plugs
together so that they interlock. Its an easy way to tell if the pitch
is the same.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib | The only thing worse than Peach ala
Internet: NT...@SILVER.UCS.INDIANA.EDU | Frog is Frog ala Peach
Bitnet: NTAIB@IUBACS !
bl...@inland.com
Stumped shmumped. There is only 1 standard glow plug thread size.
You obviously have the same threads as everybody else but there
must be a piece of metal on the threads that doesn't belong there.
If you doubt me, go take your plug to a hardware store that has a
thread gage and measure the threads per inch and diameter. Then
we can all go back to sleep. Get a glow plug tap and clean up the
threads in the head of your engine. They didn't ship you a Nelson
engine by mistake did they? If they did, well I'll be glad to
swap you for a new Supertigre.
Mark_Balch
> Stumped shmumped. There is only 1 standard glow plug thread size.
> You obviously have the same threads as everybody else but there
> must be a piece of metal on the threads that doesn't belong there.
Nope. I am not fooled by dirty threads. A brand new fox plug would
not thread into a brand new ST head and both threads were clean and
clear. The ST plug would thread into my OS head, but it was loose.
Obviously, this means that there was not an obstruction, but an
excessive gap due to mismatched threading.
> If you doubt me, go take your plug to a hardware store that has a
> thread gage and measure the threads per inch and diameter. Then
> we can all go back to sleep.
Well, I do have that brand-X plug with the "nonstandard" thread, but
I have neither the time nor the interest to verify my conclusion
at a hardware store.
Some other people think that I was shipped a metric threaded European
model by accident.
; Mark Balch The Future is MPP!
; The Cooper Union ma...@alf.cooper.edu [slow but reliable]
; (212) 353-4350 ma...@magnum.cooper.edu [fast but chancy]
Iskandar Taib
Mark_Balch <ma...@alf.cooper.edu> wrote:
>Nope. I am not fooled by dirty threads. A brand new fox plug would
>not thread into a brand new ST head and both threads were clean and
>clear. The ST plug would thread into my OS head, but it was loose.
>Obviously, this means that there was not an obstruction, but an
>excessive gap due to mismatched threading.
Hmm..
I'll bet you're the victim of stacked tolerances. The plug is on the
large side and the head has a hole on the small side. Try a third
brand. Worse somes to worst, buy a tap and re-tap the hole. Or get
some machinist to cut you a head button and button clamp.
bl...@inland.com
>
> Nope. I am not fooled by dirty threads. A brand new fox plug would
> not thread into a brand new ST head and both threads were clean and
> clear. The ST plug would thread into my OS head, but it was loose.
> Obviously, this means that there was not an obstruction, but an
> excessive gap due to mismatched threading.
>
>> If you doubt me, go take your plug to a hardware store that has a
>> thread gage and measure the threads per inch and diameter. Then
>> we can all go back to sleep.
>
> Well, I do have that brand-X plug with the "nonstandard" thread, but
> I have neither the time nor the interest to verify my conclusion
> at a hardware store.
Ah, you'd make an excellent scientist! Make conclusions first, then
tell us you don't need any data since you already have a conclusion.
>
> Some other people think that I was shipped a metric threaded European
> model by accident.
Some other people don't know what the hell they are talking about.
The Europeans are not making a different glow plug for their own
markets! If you don't believe me, which you obviously don't, then
write to Clarence Lee at RCM magazine.
Steven W. Bixby
...
: Ah, you'd make an excellent scientist! Make conclusions first, then
: tell us you don't need any data since you already have a conclusion.
: Some other people don't know what the hell they are talking about.
: The Europeans are not making a different glow plug for their own
: markets! If you don't believe me, which you obviously don't, then
: write to Clarence Lee at RCM magazine.
Relax already! It's kind of hard to refute his evidence of a bad fit;
all he asked to begin with was "ever heard of this before?" - and you
blowtorched him. Why?
--
-swb- (Steve Bixby, sbi...@crl.com)
David Svoboda
Bad Hair Day, I suspect.
I'm the guy that doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. I was
the guy that suggested some sort of metric threading, at Marks conviction
that the threads had a different pitch. Since every motor I had ever
seen has 1/4-32 thread on the plug hole, I figured perhaps it was an
engine made to be marketed somewhere they didn't use that thread.
Marks unwillingness to fix a brand new engine is completely understandable,
in my view, especially when it was as expensive as a Supertigre. To me,
having an engine come out of the factory with a problem like that is
unacceptable.
Oh, and Michael, that attitude of yours is out of line, and exactly what
discourages beginners from the sport.
Dave Svoboda, Palatine, IL
Evil Engineer Doin' It The Cowboy Way
said:
[...]
Steven> all he asked to begin with was "ever heard of this
Steven> before?" - and you blowtorched him. Why?
True. (I imagine the guy is sorry now he asked.. )
But this is still an intriguing problem. I'm wondering now if metric glow
plugs really exist, or did someone "clean" out some sticky threads in a
head with the wrong die?
My Supertigres (.40, .46, .51, .56, and .60) all take the same glow
plugs as all the rest of my engines..
L.
"Yeh, Buddy.. | la...@psl.nmsu.edu (Larry Cunningham)| _~~_
I've got your COMPUTER! | % Physical Science Laboratory | (O)(-)
Right HERE!!" | New Mexico State University | /..\
(computer THIS!) | Las Cruces, New Mexico, USA 88003 | <>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed here are CORRECT, mine, and not PSLs or NMSUs..
The first time I had sex, I was terrified. I was alone..
Iskandar Taib
Iskandar Taib <nt...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
>I've always thought that glow plugs (except the Nelson plugs and the
>ST Speed plugs and other weird kinds) were threaded 1/4-28.
Actually, its 1/4-32. Sorry..
bl...@inland.com
> <1993Nov15.2...@alf.cooper.edu>
> <1993Nov16....@inland.com> <2cbgjq$5...@crl.crl.com>
> NNTP-Posting-Host: peak.nmsu.edu
> In-reply-to: sbi...@crl.com's message of 16 Nov 1993 13:27:22 -0800
>
>>>>>> On 16 Nov 1993 13:27:22 -0800, sbi...@crl.com (Steven W. Bixby)
> said:
> [...]
> Steven> all he asked to begin with was "ever heard of this
> Steven> before?" - and you blowtorched him. Why?
>
Well I'm Mr Blowtorch, and I didn't flame him for the innocent
question, but I did for the followup post which concluded that
that Supertigre markets a "European Engine" with a different glow
plug thread size. That conclusion is flat out wrong, and since this
is an information network the one thing that I don't tolerate is
bad information. It is easy enough to check the data before
posting, a thread gage would suffice.
> True. (I imagine the guy is sorry now he asked.. )
He shouldn't be sorry for asking, just for claiming there is another
thread size.
>
> But this is still an intriguing problem. I'm wondering now if metric glow
> plugs really exist, or did someone "clean" out some sticky threads in a
> head with the wrong die?
So you see that you were bitten by the bad information. You now wonder
whether metric plugs exist.
David Svoboda
Bill Webster
Better still, why not write to Super Tiger in Italy. I have in the past
and they respond very quickly. You can get their address from an Italian
Embasy. Just look up the Embasy in the phone book. And, if you talk to
the Embasy people, they will even Fax your message for you. Can't beat
that for service.
For my $0.02, I don't think you have a none standard thread either.
If anything, one bad thread, or as Iskandar mentioned, out of tolerance.
Bill Webster (WWEB...@BNR.CA)
Iskandar Taib
Bill Webster <wweb...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>Better still, why not write to Super Tiger in Italy. I have in the past
>and they respond very quickly. You can get their address from an Italian
>Embasy. Just look up the Embasy in the phone book. And, if you talk to
>the Embasy people, they will even Fax your message for you. Can't beat
>that for service.
Hmm!!
You know, I wonder if I can contact the people who make Leo engines by
calling the Taiwan embassy! It'd be interesting to see if they can
make a small number of Leo .28's bored out to a .32 or .36...
Richard C Trost
>
>Well I'm Mr Blowtorch, and I didn't flame him for the innocent
>question, but I did for the followup post which concluded that
>that Supertigre markets a "European Engine" with a different glow
>plug thread size. That conclusion is flat out wrong, and since this
>is an information network the one thing that I don't tolerate is
>bad information. It is easy enough to check the data before
>posting, a thread gage would suffice.
>>
>> plugs really exist, or did someone "clean" out some sticky threads in a
>> head with the wrong die?
>
>
I have it on good authority from a friend who races gas cars &
works part time at a local hobby shop that there are indeed two
glow plug sizes. The non standard plug he refers to as a `turbo plug'.
He doesn't know the thread size but believes it to be metric. It's
been popular in Europe for some time; just gaining acceptance here
in the U.S. It uses a tapered sealing system ala automotive plug
rather than the flat washer and is indeed LARGER than the std.
1/4-32 we're used to. They're used; so I'm told, in high performance
applications.
It would appear that someone owes someone an apology!
--
Richard C. Trost | `Hokey weapons and ancient religions are
Tektronix Inc. | no match for a good blaster at your side
rich...@tcsegp1.pen.tek.com | Kid.' -Han Solo-
----------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib
Richard C Trost <rich...@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM> wrote:
>I have it on good authority from a friend who races gas cars &
>works part time at a local hobby shop that there are indeed two
>glow plug sizes. The non standard plug he refers to as a `turbo plug'.
>He doesn't know the thread size but believes it to be metric. It's
>been popular in Europe for some time; just gaining acceptance here
>in the U.S. It uses a tapered sealing system ala automotive plug
>rather than the flat washer and is indeed LARGER than the std.
>1/4-32 we're used to. They're used; so I'm told, in high performance
>applications.
Wasn't the problem, though, that the ST's hole was too _small_? The
original messages have expired here so I can't go look.
If this larger size is popular in Europe, I wonder if Henry Nelson
just copied their specs for the large Nelson plugs that he sells for
use with his engines and others. These do use a tapered seat at the
bottom of the hole for sealing. Some Combat fliers have had heads made
for Fox combat specials which use these plugs and they're good for a
few extra hundred RPMs. I think KK also makes a head that fits the Cox
Tee Dee and reed valve motors that uses Nelson plugs - they supposedly
last forever in this application, produce more power and actually cost
less than than the Cox glowheads.
Other systems I've seen: an unthreaded plug + retainer arrangement
that was used in Supertigre X-40s. I've seen these on early, light-
weight Cipolla .15s that Doc Passen was selling. The Russians also use
a variety of glowheads and glow buttons on their Combat motors.
bl...@inland.com
> stuff deleted;
>
> I have it on good authority from a friend who races gas cars &
> works part time at a local hobby shop that there are indeed two
> glow plug sizes. The non standard plug he refers to as a `turbo plug'.
> He doesn't know the thread size but believes it to be metric. It's
> been popular in Europe for some time; just gaining acceptance here
> in the U.S. It uses a tapered sealing system ala automotive plug
> rather than the flat washer and is indeed LARGER than the std.
> 1/4-32 we're used to. They're used; so I'm told, in high performance
> applications.
>
> It would appear that someone owes someone an apology!
> --
> Richard C. Trost
My apology will come only when I see some data! So far, so nothing.
The original questions were: Does Supertigre manufacture engines with
2 different glow plug thread sizes? Did this fellow in the original
post actually get an engine with a glow plug thread size that is
unconventional? According to my authorities, Clarence Lee and Mike
Billington, who don't work part time at a local hobby shop, the
answers are no and no. Perhaps the information from my authorities is
out of date if there have been some recent developments in glow plugs,
but I really doubt it. Who is the manufacturer of these "Turbo Plugs"
and for which specific models and brands of engines are they designed?
The original poster was concerned with his airplane motor from Supertigre.
I will check my local hobby store to see if they have any "special"
plugs. A thread gage would certainly answer all questions, but
instead I keep reading about urban legends.
Bill Lee
>
>My apology will come only when I see some data! So far, so nothing.
>The original questions were: Does Supertigre manufacture engines with
>2 different glow plug thread sizes? Did this fellow in the original
>post actually get an engine with a glow plug thread size that is
>unconventional? According to my authorities, Clarence Lee and Mike
>Billington, who don't work part time at a local hobby shop, the
>answers are no and no. Perhaps the information from my authorities is
>out of date if there have been some recent developments in glow plugs,
>but I really doubt it. Who is the manufacturer of these "Turbo Plugs"
>and for which specific models and brands of engines are they designed?
>The original poster was concerned with his airplane motor from Supertigre.
>I will check my local hobby store to see if they have any "special"
>plugs. A thread gage would certainly answer all questions, but
>instead I keep reading about urban legends.
Well, here's some real data. (I'm sitting here with examples of a
standard plug, a Nelson -see below- plug, a thread gauge, and
a micrometer.)
The "standard" plug we've all come to expect is a 1/4-32 thread.
You don't see this combination very often in the tool catalogs or
at the local hrdware stores, but it is listed as an "NEF" (National
Extra Fine) thread.
Over the years, thare have been other variants available. A notable
example was the Super Tigre plug which raised such a ruckus many
years ago when it was introduced with their (then) new X-40 pylon
racing engine. It was banned in Pylon racing, and, to my knowledge,
was produced only very briefly by Super Tigre.
In the last few years, Henry Nelson has begun producing a different
style of glowplug (which Henry calls the "Dodge plug" since he got
the design from Carl Dodge, 1990 FAI CL Speed World Champion) which
is MUCH larger in diameter. It, too, is a 32 tpi thread but is an
11/32-32 yielding a plug about .1" larger in diameter across the
threads. The plug seal is at the face of the plug adjacent to the
glow element instead of up on top of the threads using a copper
washer. The plug is good for a several hundred RPM increase (all
else staying the same) due to the fact that there is no unwanted
combustion occuring in the thread area of the plug. It does require
a cylinder head specially produced to accept the plug. All of the
engines Henry produces are manufactured for this plug, and there
are many conversions out there for other brands.
There is NO chance that anyone will confuse a Nelson plug with a
standard plug: they are just too different in size to mix up.
Regards,
Bill Lee
Richard C Trost
> According to my authorities, Clarence Lee and Mike
>Billington, who don't work part time at a local hobby shop, the
>answers are no and no.
>and for which specific models and brands of engines are they designed?
Gee; I thought the pony was pretty well dead by now but a couple more
whacks won't do major damage.
The Turbo plug is real. Anyone with $7 in their pocket can walk into
"Kit Car" here in Portland and buy one .. even Clarence Lee. True it's
expensive and won't fit your engine but hey, how many of us can own a
legend for $7.00 (plus shipping)?
The only engines I can say for sure using this plug are Nova Rossi,
RB Concept and TOP. All three are built in the Nova Rossi factory
which also holds the patent on the turbo plug. The original patent
runs out in about a year and creeping technology being what it is
you can bet on seeing this plug type in more mainstream engines. As
I mentioned before the present application is in specialty, high
performance engines for the go fast crowd; the kind of folks who
don't mind putting $7 plugs in $400 20 sized engines and hoping like
heck to finish the race before it all blows! Interestingly, the engines
mentioned above are also available with conventional plug heads.
The idea behind this plug is that no part of the plug actually enters
the combustion chamber to distort it's shape. The plug nose is tapered
and mates with a taper in the bottom of the plug hole. Only a small
(about 3/16") hole enters the combustion chamber. In effect it's a Cox
glow head with replaceable element. Smoother/more complete combustion
and MORE POWER are the claimed benefits.
The original post said that the mystery Tigre plug was a loose fit
when threaded into another engine. This would seem to rule out gunked-up
Tigre threads and definitely rules out the turbo plug which is bigger.
(we're still working on the thread size). Point being that if there's
one relatively unknown plug size there might be another.
--
R. C. Trost | `Hokey weapons and ancient religions are
Iskandar Taib
>The Turbo plug is real. Anyone with $7 in their pocket can walk into
>"Kit Car" here in Portland and buy one .. even Clarence Lee. True it's
>expensive and won't fit your engine but hey, how many of us can own a
>legend for $7.00 (plus shipping)?
The big question is: Are these "Turbo Plugs" the same size as Nelson's
racing plugs? Both use the same principle: a tapered seat at the
bottom of the plug. The idea, as I've mentioned, has been kicking
around for years and years - the earliest versions of these things
(eg. in the Super Tigre X-40 pylon racing motors) used a seperate
locking ring on a non-threaded plug body.
I think Nelson charges quite a bit less than $7 a plug..
Bill Lee
>In article <12...@tekig7.pen.tek.com>,
>Richard C Trost <rich...@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM> wrote:
>
>>The Turbo plug is real. Anyone with $7 in their pocket can walk into
>>"Kit Car" here in Portland and buy one .. even Clarence Lee. True it's
>>expensive and won't fit your engine but hey, how many of us can own a
>>legend for $7.00 (plus shipping)?
>
>The big question is: Are these "Turbo Plugs" the same size as Nelson's
>racing plugs? Both use the same principle: a tapered seat at the
>bottom of the plug. The idea, as I've mentioned, has been kicking
>around for years and years - the earliest versions of these things
>(eg. in the Super Tigre X-40 pylon racing motors) used a seperate
>locking ring on a non-threaded plug body.
>
>I think Nelson charges quite a bit less than $7 a plug..
>
>
"Turbo" and see if it's the same as a Nelson. However, one attribute
is more difficult to measure and is absolutely critical: what is
the angle of the tapered "nose" of the plug? Since this is where
the seal is made, it MUST be the same as the head it's being screwed
into.
As an historical note, Henry's first plugs were also a two-part
design. He used the GloBee 1/2A racing head, machined all of the
"head" off, leaving only the central part, and then used a clamp
to thread into the engine. At a later time, he designed and produced
the one-piece plug with a conventional glow element in it. I believe
he still makes the two-piece version since many high performance
applications still would rather have the GloBee plug than the usual
style.
And, yes, quite a bit less than $7 (although I don't know what the
price is right now).
Regards,
Bill Lee
Iskandar Taib
Bill Lee <bi...@leeweyr.sccsi.com> wrote:
>As an historical note, Henry's first plugs were also a two-part
>design. He used the GloBee 1/2A racing head, machined all of the
>"head" off, leaving only the central part, and then used a clamp
>to thread into the engine. At a later time, he designed and produced
>the one-piece plug with a conventional glow element in it. I believe
>he still makes the two-piece version since many high performance
>applications still would rather have the GloBee plug than the usual
>style.
Do the two piece and one piece versions fit in the same head? I always
thought Glo Bee OEM'ed his plugs, so I thought the new ones also used
the flat Glo Bee element, but I guess not..
>And, yes, quite a bit less than $7 (although I don't know what the
>price is right now).
What goes around comes around, I guess.. supposedly KK now makes a
head for the Cox .049's that takes the Nelson plug. I'm not sure what
the advantage is - it might be price, or performance. The older heads
that took regular glowplugs sucked as far as perfomance went...
Bill Webster
nt...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Iskandar Taib) wrote:
>
> In article <1993Dec5.1...@leeweyr.sccsi.com>,
> Bill Lee <bi...@leeweyr.sccsi.com> wrote:
>
> >And, yes, quite a bit less than $7 (although I don't know what the
> >price is right now).
>
A person from Nelson's shop attends the Canadian Nats (Gary Gowe?) each
year.
Last year, he was selling Nelson plugs for $2.5 and $3.25 (the more
expensive plug had a tougher element).
> What goes around comes around, I guess.. supposedly KK now makes a
> head for the Cox .049's that takes the Nelson plug. I'm not sure what
> the advantage is - it might be price, or performance. The older heads
> that took regular glowplugs sucked as far as perfomance went...
>
Gary mentioned that the Nelson plugs stood up better to the
swirling gases which means the element keeps its shape longer. You
mentioned
the KK adaptor, there is also one for the Fox .36 for combat. You
probably already know this.
BTW, the Rossi 'turbo' plug is the same thread and diameter as a
regular plug. It's used extensively in R/C gas car racing. Since these
motors generally have a huge, deep heatsink, attaching a plug clip
could become a problem. But, as Rossi used the standard plug hex shape,
a long reach glow plug clip works well.
Bill Webster (WWEB...@BNR.CA)
Iskandar Taib
Bill Webster <wweb...@bnr.ca> wrote:
>Gary mentioned that the Nelson plugs stood up better to the
>swirling gases which means the element keeps its shape longer. You
>mentioned
>the KK adaptor, there is also one for the Fox .36 for combat. You
>probably already know this.
For the Fox you simply buy a different head button - I think several
people make them, as its a simple machining task. I imagine one could
make head buttons for just about any make of motor (I guess you'd take
the existing head and make a head clamp out of it - in fact theres no
reason one can't machine the existing head to take the plug, though
the tapered seat might prove to be a challenge - you'd have to add
metal there). The place where I can see these becoming useful would be
those big R/C fan motors. They're using expensive Rossi R8s as it
is.. the Nelson would likely be faster and stand up better, as well as
being cheaper.
>BTW, the Rossi 'turbo' plug is the same thread and diameter as a
>regular plug. It's used extensively in R/C gas car racing. Since these
>motors generally have a huge, deep heatsink, attaching a plug clip
>could become a problem. But, as Rossi used the standard plug hex shape,
>a long reach glow plug clip works well.
Any "R" number associated with the plug?
Bill Lee
>In article <1993Dec5.1...@leeweyr.sccsi.com>,
>Bill Lee <bi...@leeweyr.sccsi.com> wrote:
>
>>As an historical note, Henry's first plugs were also a two-part
>>design. He used the GloBee 1/2A racing head, machined all of the
>>"head" off, leaving only the central part, and then used a clamp
>>to thread into the engine. At a later time, he designed and produced
>>the one-piece plug with a conventional glow element in it. I believe
>>he still makes the two-piece version since many high performance
>>applications still would rather have the GloBee plug than the usual
>>style.
>
>Do the two piece and one piece versions fit in the same head? I always
>thought Glo Bee OEM'ed his plugs, so I thought the new ones also used
>the flat Glo Bee element, but I guess not..
Yes, the two styles are interchangeable.
The one-piece plug is a standard glow element although I believe Henry has some
design in the size of the hole the element is in (quite small compared to most
standard 1/4-32 plugs).
>
>>And, yes, quite a bit less than $7 (although I don't know what the
>>price is right now).
>
>What goes around comes around, I guess.. supposedly KK now makes a
>head for the Cox .049's that takes the Nelson plug. I'm not sure what
>the advantage is - it might be price, or performance. The older heads
>that took regular glowplugs sucked as far as perfomance went...
>
The Nelson plug yields improved performance when compared to a standard
plug given the head shape and volume being otherwise equal. A Cox head
drilled and tapped for a standard plug combined with small engine displacement
exaggerates the negative effects of the threaded plug. The Nelson plug seals at
the face of the plug and keeps combustion out of the thread area. That's
the trick to this style of plug.
Regards,
Bill
Wes Zook
>> stuff deleted;
>>
>> I have it on good authority from a friend who races gas cars &
>> works part time at a local hobby shop that there are indeed two
>> glow plug sizes. The non standard plug he refers to as a `turbo plug'.
>>
>> It would appear that someone owes someone an apology!
>> --
>> Richard C. Trost
>
>My apology will come only when I see some data! So far, so nothing.
>Billington, who don't work part time at a local hobby shop, the
>answers are no and no. Perhaps the information from my authorities is
>out of date if there have been some recent developments in glow plugs,
>but I really doubt it. Who is the manufacturer of these "Turbo Plugs"
>and for which specific models and brands of engines are they designed?
>instead I keep reading about urban legends.
NO, NO and NO.
You and your authorities need to wake up and smell the nitro. The 'turbo'
plug is real and has been for almost seven years.
The 1/8 scale gas car 4wd world championships were won in 89-90, 91-92 and
93-94 by the Italian Lamberto Collari using a NovaRossi engine equipped with
a 'turbo' plug.
NovaRossi currently holds the patent on the 'turbo' plug. That patent will
expire in less than one year. At that time you can expect more engines to
use the 'turbo' plug and head.
All engines out of the NovaRossi factory (Rex, Top, RB concept and NovaRossi)
are available with the 'turbo' head and plug configuration. I personaly
run the RB concept circuit engine and the Top TQ8 engine both using the
'turbo' head and plug. I also run (club racing) the RB concept and Top
engines with the standard glow plugs and heads. I do know the difference.
If a thread gage will answer all of your questions then here we go.
NovaRossi 'Turbo' plug -- Thread size M8x1.25mm. Diameter .315in.
(Sounds pretty metric to me)
Standard plug -- Thread size 1/4x32. Diameter .250in.
The 'turbo' plug is larger in diameter and has a little coarser threads.
NovaRossi markets 8 versions of the 'turbo' plug. The most common ones are:
NovaRossi P/N C7Tf, C6Tf and C8Tf. The only thing common from the 'turbo'
to the std. plug is the hex head. They are the same size and shape.
I know you probably won't take my word for it. I can see your affection for
name dropping. So, here are some names, call them if you like.
JR owner of Ace hobbies in Berlingame CA. Phone (415) 697-6099. Ace is the
largest retailer of 1/8 gas in the U.S. Ace sells Top and RB concept engines.
Mike Queller owner of Speedline Distributing in Austin TX. Phone
(512) 327-8485. Speedline distributes Top and NovaRossi.
Dave Bressel of Kit Car of Oregon in Portland. Phone (503) 257-9541. Kit
Car is the largest retailer of 1/8 gas west of the Mississippi. They sell
Top, RB concept, NovaRossi and Rex.
Imagine that, an urban legend winning the world championships 6 years
in a row.
--
Wesley D. Zook |
Tektronix Inc. | .sig. under construction, please be patient.
we...@tcsegp1.pen.tek.com |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Iskandar Taib
Wes Zook <we...@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM> wrote:
> NovaRossi currently holds the patent on the 'turbo' plug. That patent will
> expire in less than one year. At that time you can expect more engines to
> use the 'turbo' plug and head.
Why wait? Getting a head button made for any motor is an easy
proposition. There are lots of engine reworkers out there with
lathes.. However, if the NovaRossi plugs are $7 a shot the Nelson
plug may be the better deal. The guy who does the C/L speed column in
Model Aviation - Gene Hempel? - recently did a series of articles on
the NovaRossi Top .21 car motor - he's trying it out in Formula .21
Speed. I'll scan it to see if he mentions the NovaRossi Turbo plug.
These guys get more out of a motor than anyone else.
By the way - the reason there is now a NovaRossi company and a Rossi
company was because the Rossi brothers had a disagreement... the Rossi
.15 used to be a premier engine for FAI Combat. No longer. The Nelsons
are far faster and the Russian motors far lighter.
> If a thread gage will answer all of your questions then here we go.
>
> NovaRossi 'Turbo' plug -- Thread size M8x1.25mm. Diameter .315in.
> (Sounds pretty metric to me)
Interesting. Anyone know what Nelson Plug dimensions are?
bl...@inland.com
> You and your authorities need to wake up and smell the nitro. The 'turbo'
> plug is real and has been for almost seven years.
>
> The 1/8 scale gas car 4wd world championships were won in 89-90, 91-92 and
> 93-94 by the Italian Lamberto Collari using a NovaRossi engine equipped with
> a 'turbo' plug.
>
> NovaRossi currently holds the patent on the 'turbo' plug. That patent will
> expire in less than one year. At that time you can expect more engines to
> use the 'turbo' plug and head.
>
> All engines out of the NovaRossi factory (Rex, Top, RB concept and NovaRossi)
> are available with the 'turbo' head and plug configuration. I personaly
> run the RB concept circuit engine and the Top TQ8 engine both using the
> 'turbo' head and plug. I also run (club racing) the RB concept and Top
> engines with the standard glow plugs and heads. I do know the difference.
>
> If a thread gage will answer all of your questions then here we go.
>
> NovaRossi 'Turbo' plug -- Thread size M8x1.25mm. Diameter .315in.
> (Sounds pretty metric to me)
>
> Standard plug -- Thread size 1/4x32. Diameter .250in.
>
> The 'turbo' plug is larger in diameter and has a little coarser threads.
>
> NovaRossi markets 8 versions of the 'turbo' plug. The most common ones are:
> NovaRossi P/N C7Tf, C6Tf and C8Tf. The only thing common from the 'turbo'
> to the std. plug is the hex head. They are the same size and shape.
Thanks for the information! But, back to the original question.
Which plug was in that fellows's SuperTigre airplane engine?
He is the only one that can provide the data for thread size on
that engine. I'd make a wager that it wasn't a Turbo plug
with threads of M8x1.25 with a diameter of .315 inch, or a Nelson
plug, but in fact the standard 1/4x32 glow plug. So far, nobody
has provided any information on any alternative plug size that could
have possibly been screwed into his engine. It's very difficult,
if not impossible, to prove that something does not exist:
For example, go prove that Bigfoot doesn't exist (no, no, you haven't
looked everywhere, have you?).
Bill Lee
>In article <12...@tekig7.pen.tek.com>,
>Wes Zook <we...@tcsegp1.PEN.TEK.COM> wrote:
>
>> NovaRossi currently holds the patent on the 'turbo' plug. That patent will
>> expire in less than one year. At that time you can expect more engines to
>> use the 'turbo' plug and head.
>
>Why wait? Getting a head button made for any motor is an easy
>proposition. There are lots of engine reworkers out there with
>lathes.. However, if the NovaRossi plugs are $7 a shot the Nelson
>plug may be the better deal. The guy who does the C/L speed column in
>Model Aviation - Gene Hempel? - recently did a series of articles on
Knowing Hempel, he would take credit for it, but he didn't write
the column and hasn't been the MA CL Speed columnist for many
years. The current CL Speed columnist is Glenn Lee (no relationshiop).
>the NovaRossi Top .21 car motor - he's trying it out in Formula .21
>Speed. I'll scan it to see if he mentions the NovaRossi Turbo plug.
>These guys get more out of a motor than anyone else.
>
>By the way - the reason there is now a NovaRossi company and a Rossi
>company was because the Rossi brothers had a disagreement... the Rossi
>.15 used to be a premier engine for FAI Combat. No longer. The Nelsons
>are far faster and the Russian motors far lighter.
>
>> If a thread gage will answer all of your questions then here we go.
>>
>> NovaRossi 'Turbo' plug -- Thread size M8x1.25mm. Diameter .315in.
>> (Sounds pretty metric to me)
>
>Interesting. Anyone know what Nelson Plug dimensions are?
>
ARRGH!
As I said in my posting several days ago, the Nelson plug is
11/32-32. another VERY important characteristic that must be
determined is the angle of the seal area at the nose of the plug.
I do not have the tools to measure it accurately although I have
heard that it is 37 degrees.
Regards,
Bill Lee
Iskandar Taib
Bill Lee <bi...@leeweyr.sccsi.com> wrote:
>ARRGH!
>
>As I said in my posting several days ago, the Nelson plug is
>11/32-32. another VERY important characteristic that must be
>determined is the angle of the seal area at the nose of the plug.
>I do not have the tools to measure it accurately although I have
>heard that it is 37 degrees.
Heheh..
What was that you were saying about blind pigs a few days ago?
^_-