Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss
How long to switch stick mode
5 views
Skip to first unread message
Robert Roland
Oct 30, 2011, 12:31:38 PM10/30/11
to
For years and years, I have been flying planes in mode 4 (aileron and
throttle on left stick) and helicopters in mode 2 (collective and tail
rotor on left stick). I have tried to convince myself that switching
from plane to heli (or back) was just a matter of five minutes of
getting adjusted. I am now starting to realize it is not that simple.
Or maybe I am just getting old.
For months now, I have been flying a plane (a PBY Catalina) that likes
lots of rudder, and a bit of *opposite* aileron in the turns. I am now
getting ready to fly heli again, so I hit the simulator to brush up on
the skills a little. To my amazement, I couldn't keep the damn thing
in the air, and I crashed it at least ten times before I realized what
was happening: In a left turn, my Catalina reflexes added lots of left
rudder and opposite aileron. This, of course, was in reality more left
bank and right tail rotor, resulting in a characteristic tail-first
crash every time.
So now I have decided to re-learn flying planes, this time in mode 2.
I am prepared to spend the necessary hours on the simulator before I
go fly a real plane again. I have already started practicing, and I am
now in a situation where I can fly just fine, but when something
unexpected happens, the old, incorrect reflexes kick in and make the
unexpected situation worse, in stead of resolving it.
Has anybody tried doing this switch before? How long should I expect
to have to practice before I get good enough to at least avoid
crashing. How long before I can start instructing again?
--
RoRo
throttle on left stick) and helicopters in mode 2 (collective and tail
rotor on left stick). I have tried to convince myself that switching
from plane to heli (or back) was just a matter of five minutes of
getting adjusted. I am now starting to realize it is not that simple.
Or maybe I am just getting old.
For months now, I have been flying a plane (a PBY Catalina) that likes
lots of rudder, and a bit of *opposite* aileron in the turns. I am now
getting ready to fly heli again, so I hit the simulator to brush up on
the skills a little. To my amazement, I couldn't keep the damn thing
in the air, and I crashed it at least ten times before I realized what
was happening: In a left turn, my Catalina reflexes added lots of left
rudder and opposite aileron. This, of course, was in reality more left
bank and right tail rotor, resulting in a characteristic tail-first
crash every time.
So now I have decided to re-learn flying planes, this time in mode 2.
I am prepared to spend the necessary hours on the simulator before I
go fly a real plane again. I have already started practicing, and I am
now in a situation where I can fly just fine, but when something
unexpected happens, the old, incorrect reflexes kick in and make the
unexpected situation worse, in stead of resolving it.
Has anybody tried doing this switch before? How long should I expect
to have to practice before I get good enough to at least avoid
crashing. How long before I can start instructing again?
--
RoRo
Tim
Nov 6, 2011, 12:22:12 PM11/6/11
to
Just pulling this out of my -- uh -- ear, but if you set up the simulator
for really, really, gusty conditions you'll get into more of those
unexpected situations, and have more practice getting out of them without
thinking.
Maybe put the simulator into "follow the plane" mode, and with the gusts
turned up and the plane way high, close your eyes for a time (count it
out, but I'm not sure if you want a ten-count or a two-count!). Then
open them and recover as fast as you can. The "follow the plane" mode
will make sure that you don't spend time finding the plane, so you'll be
practicing the hard part -- unthinking recovery of the plane ASAP.
--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com
Ed Anderson
Nov 7, 2011, 9:09:57 AM11/7/11
to
On Oct 30, 12:31 pm, Robert Roland <f...@ddress.no> wrote:
> For years and years, I have been flying planes in mode 4 (aileron and
> throttle on left stick) and helicopters in mode 2 (collective and tail
> rotor on left stick). I have tried to convince myself that switching
> from plane to heli (or back) was just a matter of five minutes of
> getting adjusted. I am now starting to realize it is not that simple.
> Or maybe I am just getting old.
>
snip....
> For years and years, I have been flying planes in mode 4 (aileron and
> throttle on left stick) and helicopters in mode 2 (collective and tail
> rotor on left stick). I have tried to convince myself that switching
> from plane to heli (or back) was just a matter of five minutes of
> getting adjusted. I am now starting to realize it is not that simple.
> Or maybe I am just getting old.
>
>
> Has anybody tried doing this switch before? How long should I expect
> to have to practice before I get good enough to at least avoid
> crashing. How long before I can start instructing again?
> --
> RoRo
How long does it take to learn something? Depends on you.
> Has anybody tried doing this switch before? How long should I expect
> to have to practice before I get good enough to at least avoid
> crashing. How long before I can start instructing again?
> --
> RoRo
How long does it take to unlearn something? Depends on you.
How did you end up learning to fly in Mode 4 on planes and mode 2 on
Helis?
Ed
Robert Roland
Nov 30, 2011, 5:43:14 PM11/30/11
to
On Sun, 06 Nov 2011 11:22:12 -0600, Tim <t...@seemywebsite.please>
wrote:
>Just pulling this out of my -- uh -- ear, but if you set up the simulator
>for really, really, gusty conditions you'll get into more of those
>unexpected situations, and have more practice getting out of them without
>thinking.
I have now tried the gusty conditions a bit. It does have value, but
mainly during landing. In the air, there is just too much time to
think before something goes wrong.
>Maybe put the simulator into "follow the plane" mode, and with the gusts
>turned up and the plane way high, close your eyes for a time (count it
>out, but I'm not sure if you want a ten-count or a two-count!). Then
>open them and recover as fast as you can.
I have not tried this, but I imagine it won't be effective. Not
knowing *what* will happen is not so bad when you exactly *when*
something is going to happen.
I have now practiced quite a bit with the "Yak 54 3D" (In Realflight
G5). It is set up with extreme control sensitivity and is quite tail
heavy. This seems to be good, as even the slightest subconscious
mistake becomes obviously visible. I am struggling a lot with
hovering. Earlier, that was a breeze, as the controls in mode 4 were
exactly the same as a helicopter in mode 2, so my helicopter reflexes
worked "out of the box". Hovering seems to be a good exercise, since
it requires extremely quick and accurate corrections to maintain
balance.
All in all, it seems there is no quick and easy way. The only thing
that works is to put in the hours. Also, it seems the reflexes to some
degree are separate for each different maneuver. I can now maintain a
reasonably stable hover, but if I transition from level flight into a
vertical climb, the tiny rudder corrections needed to keep the climb
vertical are still often done with the right hand.
Maybe slow rolling circles will be my next exercise. That requires
good rudder control, and combined with lots of elevator work, it adds
to the workload.
--
RoRo
wrote:
>Just pulling this out of my -- uh -- ear, but if you set up the simulator
>for really, really, gusty conditions you'll get into more of those
>unexpected situations, and have more practice getting out of them without
>thinking.
mainly during landing. In the air, there is just too much time to
think before something goes wrong.
>Maybe put the simulator into "follow the plane" mode, and with the gusts
>turned up and the plane way high, close your eyes for a time (count it
>out, but I'm not sure if you want a ten-count or a two-count!). Then
>open them and recover as fast as you can.
knowing *what* will happen is not so bad when you exactly *when*
something is going to happen.
I have now practiced quite a bit with the "Yak 54 3D" (In Realflight
G5). It is set up with extreme control sensitivity and is quite tail
heavy. This seems to be good, as even the slightest subconscious
mistake becomes obviously visible. I am struggling a lot with
hovering. Earlier, that was a breeze, as the controls in mode 4 were
exactly the same as a helicopter in mode 2, so my helicopter reflexes
worked "out of the box". Hovering seems to be a good exercise, since
it requires extremely quick and accurate corrections to maintain
balance.
All in all, it seems there is no quick and easy way. The only thing
that works is to put in the hours. Also, it seems the reflexes to some
degree are separate for each different maneuver. I can now maintain a
reasonably stable hover, but if I transition from level flight into a
vertical climb, the tiny rudder corrections needed to keep the climb
vertical are still often done with the right hand.
Maybe slow rolling circles will be my next exercise. That requires
good rudder control, and combined with lots of elevator work, it adds
to the workload.
--
RoRo
Robert Roland
Nov 30, 2011, 6:13:19 PM11/30/11
to
On Mon, 7 Nov 2011 06:09:57 -0800 (PST), Ed Anderson
<AE...@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
>How did you end up learning to fly in Mode 4 on planes and mode 2 on
>Helis?
When I started with planes, I had heard someone say (and it seemed to
<AE...@OPTONLINE.NET> wrote:
>How did you end up learning to fly in Mode 4 on planes and mode 2 on
>Helis?
make sense) to have the main controls on separate sticks, so that it
would be easier to adjust one without disturbing the other. That was,
of course, with slow, stable trainers that mostly fly themselves, so
that only occasional inputs are necessary.
When I got to try helicopters, it seemed to make sense to control the
rotor disc (cyclic) with one stick, visualizing the transmitter stick
was mounted on top of the rotor head. I tried it and it felt right.
I never had an instructor. It was just me and a couple of equally
inexperienced friends trying to figure it out as we went along.
--
RoRo
denni...@gmail.com
Dec 22, 2011, 4:55:17 PM12/22/11
to
Mode 1 is rudder/elevator on left, throttle/ailerons on right
Mode 3 is opposite of that.
Mode 4 is ailerons/elevator on left, throttle/rudder on right.
Opposite of Mode 2.
Robert Roland
Dec 22, 2011, 8:34:06 PM12/22/11
to
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 13:55:17 -0800 (PST), denni...@gmail.com wrote:
>Actually, you are flying Mode 3 for airplanes.
Not according my transmitter (JR 9x2) software or its manual. A quick
>Actually, you are flying Mode 3 for airplanes.
search gets this page that also disagrees with you:
http://www.rc-airplane-world.com/rc-transmitter-modes.html
Here's another link of interest:
http://mnewell.rchomepage.com/Techniques/Tx_Modes.pdf
This paper also discusses which mode is best and why. Quite
interesting. It does, however, not consider pilots who fly both helis
and planes.
--
RoRo
0 new messages