Urgent notice, CSM ICG 540 Gyro
in...@nhpltd.ns.co.uk
We have been informed by our PCB assembler of a component defect that
could
potentially affect the performance of some of the initial batch of
ICG540
gyros. Gyros purchased between 8th May 1999 and 20th May 1999 should
be
returned
for checking. This may be done by returning the unit to your supplier.
Replacement units are being shipped out now in order to minimise
delays.
This recall is precautionary and only affects the new ICG540.
The ICG360 and ICG180 units are unaffected.
If you need further information please contact us directly.
CSM would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused.
Best regards,
Colin S. Mill
Timothy Morris
Is there a way that those of us with multimeters can check for this defect
ourselves?
Tim.
<in...@nhpltd.ns.co.uk> wrote in message
news:37444631...@news.ftech.net...
VDeller
initially released the icg 360 gyro had a recall on that one also. The same
company that I thought would NEVER let that happen again, and then I bought
one of thier new 540 gyro's. Let's take a count of the number of recalls for
other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right, there have
been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge). This is my
first HH gyro that I have purchased, it is not turning out to be a pleasant
experience. Oh well, I guess it is time to go home and box it up and send it
back across the pond.
Vince D
Chris Young
Look at it this way. I am glad that Colin recalled it if he doesn't
feel comfortable with the quality of the unit. It would gladly send
it back rather than carry my bird home in a box or worse, be carried
home in a box myself.
As to the other vendors, I know alot of guys who have lost thousands
of dollars in machines in the last year because the gyro vendor didn't
think that it was worth it to notify the public when they knew there
was a problem.
And yes, I have one that I will be shipping back tomorrow.
Chris
RSchlen791
>other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right, there have
>been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge).
Vince,
You are right about the recalls! Other manufacturers just let us suffer and
silently update their products when we send in the remains for repair. Some
other products have problems that have never been repaired or upgraded.
What about all the pressure CSM was under to get the 540 released? I can
remember reading dozens of posts here in the NG, in various lists, etc about
when the 540 would be available. Come on Vince, give them a break.
Being involved with electronics as I am, I wouldn't buy the first production
run of anything! I know all too well the unexpected problems than can just
creep in no matter how hard one tries to prevent this.
I applaud CSM for announcing the problem and I will be buying my 540 a few
months down the road when I know those early production problems are ironed
out.
Roger Schlenker
aerogra...@my-dejanews.com
learn to live with the problem. I think that CSM did a very bold
gesture to recall knowing the bad rap they would get on this forum.
Roger
n article <19990520152821...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
vde...@aol.com (VDeller) wrote:
> OK- let me see if I got this straight. This is the same company that
when they
> initially released the icg 360 gyro had a recall on that one also.
The same
> company that I thought would NEVER let that happen again, and then I
bought
> one of thier new 540 gyro's. Let's take a count of the number of
recalls for
> other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right,
there have
> been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge).
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
MOTOMAN250
The Stockman
wrote:
I second the opinion below.
Most companies just keep quiet and say nothing about it.
BTW: After speaking with Quick UK (the supplier where I bought mine)
and as noted in Colin's note, the replacement units are being shipped
automatically (without waiting for the end user to return the
defective unit) AND (at least for Quick UK) they are reimbursing
for shipping cost required to ship the old ones back. Pretty fair
deal if you ask me.
Kudos to Colin Mill for his immediate response and honesty in this
matter. It will be a profitable move for him in the long run.
VDeller
several Arcamax and a JR 3000 gyro, and I haven't had, or am I aware of any
recalls on these gyro's. I certainly applaud the manufacturer for notifying us
early on of this defect, a couple of posts insinuated that another manufacturer
should have had a recall, who was this???? As to the "pressure" that CSM felt
to get the gyro out, well I think that would be incredibly stupid on thier part
to let pressure from anyone, especially a little newsgroup like ours affect
thier delivery date. And lastly, I would like to add that if no one complained
about this type of thing, the manufacturers wouldn't give a hoot, and put the
product out even earlier, with much less testing, with the attitude of "oh
well, if it is wrong, they'll let us know". I am sending mine back pronto, and
I will continue to buy CSM products.
Vince D
RC Helis4
says one batch may have a problem. He mentioned nothing about the gyro being
designed wrong. I'm planning on buying one when they are available in the US
and I feel more relaxed knowing that the manufacture is proud of their product
and are proactive in gauranteeing we get a good product. THANKS CSM.
Dan
Gary Heath
given product, and appreciate any company not remaining silent about it. But
I 'much more' appreciate a company that has a better product design AND/OR a
better "beta test" design.
It is unfortunate that this particular company failed to do this right the
first time, both times out of the chute.
It's not like an ice cream scoop failed or is "problem prone", it's a device
that is an integral control to a potentially lethal machine.
In this case weather the problem is one that could, or could not cause loss
of control is a moot point, as the beta testing didn't catch it, and you
gotta ask yourself "do you feel lucky" when getting new products from a
company that screwed up at 'every' attempt to introduce the product.
I would do a recall if I thought my product might kill someone or lead to
litigation, but ......... I would also question my ability to play in a game
that I didn't get it right (like the big boys do) both times I tried.
On the other hand some companies seem to do their beta testing via customer
service.
Then again, some companies develop a product that doesn't work right (lets
say .... oh... it drifts) redesign the product, throw in a few bells and
whistles, undermine the value of the original product by dumping stocks of
the old product at half price, and reintroduce it as another model but screw
that up too.
How's it go ??? "fool me once, shame on you........fool me twice shame on
me"
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The Stockman wrote in message <37455107...@news.supernews.com>...
Timothy Morris
would be exposed in beta testing, simply that the manufacturers were
supplied with a faulty batch of components. It happens all the time in the
electronics industry. Sampling every single component would result in huge
delays, together with vastly increased manufacturing costs. The way all
manufacturing companies work is that they take random samples from each
batch they receive, and soak test them at tolerances well above their normal
use. If a component fails then the entire manufactured batch using those
faulty components has to be recalled and repaired. It may be that none of
the early batch will fail in normal use, but there is a chance that it
could, and as a reputable manufacturer CSM have issued a recall notice. The
initial batch was a run of 250, 100 of which were sold by Quick UK, so let's
keep things in perspective. Please, learn a little about manufacturing,
before you start spouting total bollocks.
As to the potential lethality of a model helicopter, think about the number
of recall notices issued by vehicle manufacturers over the years, some
through design flaws, and some through faulty components. It is a fact of
life that the manufacturing process is not 100% perfect for a number of
reasons. At least CSM made the issue public, probably to their detriment if
the posts on this newsgroup are a measure.
Also bear in mind that Budd Boulton (of Quick UK) is sending out replacement
gyros on Monday to ALL of his customers in advance of receiving the
replacements, and he will refund return shipping. There may have been a
small problem, but that in my book, is excellent customer service, and more
than makes up for cock-up.
Tim.
Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7i41j5$6...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
Gary Heath
Just bad luck?
The original gyro has no drift problem (as a result of design) throughout
the entire run of that model?
I own 4 of them and 4 Arcamax Pi's, my Pi's don't drift 2 of my CSM's do.
I guess the design of the original is not "component variation" dependent?
Wake up ands smell the roses, instead of where you evidently have placed
your nose.
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Timothy Morris wrote in message <7i43cn$85f$1...@news1.cableinet.co.uk>...
Timothy Morris
completely eradicated in the 540. Neither of us know what happened with the
first or the second problem, so we cannot speculate. Your comment about
"beta testing" was so flawed as to be total tosh. If you don't like it then
don't buy it. I am very happy with mine, more than anything because it is SO
simple to set up. For beginners it is fit and forget. It is easily
configurable for more advanced flyers. Are you telling me that Ford, or GM
have ever produced any car that has NO fualts out of the factory? It
happens, it is a fact of life. Whether the manufacturer has poor quality
control or not is anyone's guess. Needless to say, they are embarrassed
about it, and are men enough to admit that they have made a mistake, rather
than waiting to see if SOME of the 250 made so far do actually fail in use.
Tim.
Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7i4c0r$b...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
> Gee, I wonder why it keeps happening to them and their gyros.
> Just bad luck?
> The original gyro has no drift problem (as a result of design) throughout
> the entire run of that model?
> I own 4 of them and 4 Arcamax Pi's, my Pi's don't drift 2 of my CSM's do.
> I guess the design of the original is not "component variation" dependent?
> Wake up ands smell the roses, instead of where you evidently have placed
> your nose.
>
>
Chris Young
We are basically dealing with three things.
1. The original 360's do drift to some degree which varies from unit
to unit and environment to environment. This could possibly be
related to component selection and/or design. No one disputes that.
2. The issue with the 540 is not a design problem, it is a production
problem, which is an entirely different animal. A production problem
would only be discovered after production, ie. after the beta cycle.
I applaud Colin for standing behind his product and ensuring that the
customers are getting what they pair for, as opposed to the sell it
and forget it mental of some ofther vendors.
3. All vendors have problems at some point. What is at issue is what
they do about them. I for one am happy to send mine back and get one
that Colin feels is better. It is that, or the inane belief that you
should just fly it because it 'should' have worked. I'll take the
path of caution with these little gizmos everytime.
There are other vendors out there that I would not use if they gave
their gyros away for free. I am glad to see that at least one vendor
is willing to step up to the plate and take responsibility for
delivering a product that isn't up to snuff.
Chris
On Fri, 21 May 1999 22:03:50 +0100, "Timothy Morris"
<timm...@globalnet.co.us> wrote:
>I'll fully admit to the fact that the 360 had a design flaw. This has been
>completely eradicated in the 540. Neither of us know what happened with the
>first or the second problem, so we cannot speculate. Your comment about
>"beta testing" was so flawed as to be total tosh. If you don't like it then
>don't buy it. I am very happy with mine, more than anything because it is SO
>simple to set up. For beginners it is fit and forget. It is easily
>configurable for more advanced flyers. Are you telling me that Ford, or GM
>have ever produced any car that has NO fualts out of the factory? It
>happens, it is a fact of life. Whether the manufacturer has poor quality
>control or not is anyone's guess. Needless to say, they are embarrassed
>about it, and are men enough to admit that they have made a mistake, rather
>than waiting to see if SOME of the 250 made so far do actually fail in use.
>
>Tim.
>
>Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:7i4c0r$b...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
>> Gee, I wonder why it keeps happening to them and their gyros.
>> Just bad luck?
>> The original gyro has no drift problem (as a result of design) throughout
>> the entire run of that model?
>> I own 4 of them and 4 Arcamax Pi's, my Pi's don't drift 2 of my CSM's do.
>> I guess the design of the original is not "component variation" dependent?
>> Wake up ands smell the roses, instead of where you evidently have placed
>> your nose.
>>
>>
Gary Heath
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MOTOMAN250
Gary Heath
So I guess my only response can be "I know you are but what am I" or the
classic, Oh ya ...... says who?
Try to cut down on the coffee.
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Timothy Morris wrote in message <7i4r59$jsc$1...@news1.cableinet.co.uk>...
>What? Did I ever say that it didn't?
>
>If you think you can do better than CSM, design build and sell your own
>gyro.
>
>I still stand by my original comment. You know fuck all about
manufacturing.
>
>Tim.
>
>Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:7i4p31$h...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
>> Thank you Mr. Clinton
>>
>> --
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>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
Rockie Roper
Hats of to CSM.
I do not see any other vendors letting us know about any problems.
--
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oo0---(_)---0oo
Thanx Rockie.
Gary Heath wrote in message <7i4uff$k...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>...
>Your ability to switch hats is outdone only be your skill in debate.
>So I guess my only response can be "I know you are but what am I" or the
>classic, Oh ya ...... says who?
>Try to cut down on the coffee.
>
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>Timothy Morris wrote in message <7i4r59$jsc$1...@news1.cableinet.co.uk>...
>>What? Did I ever say that it didn't?
>>
>>If you think you can do better than CSM, design build and sell your own
>>gyro.
>>
>>I still stand by my original comment. You know fuck all about
>manufacturing.
>>
>>Tim.
>>
>>Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>news:7i4p31$h...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
>>> Thank you Mr. Clinton
>>>
>>> --
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Timothy Morris
If you think you can do better than CSM, design build and sell your own
gyro.
I still stand by my original comment. You know fuck all about manufacturing.
Tim.
Gary Heath <gar...@NoGreeenEggs-n-SPAMix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:7i4p31$h...@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com...
> Thank you Mr. Clinton
>
> --
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VDeller
Quick UK are a bunch of good stand up people, they are handleing this matter
very well in my opinion, and I wish more companies in the USA,( in particular
the contractors working on my house) would be as easy to deal with.
Vince D
Chris Young
WILLB33345
I think its fair to say that cussing CSM is silly. Look where this man has got
all of us. Without Colin we'd still be farting around with non HH gyro's. What
a fantastic design he's come up with. Understand that it's not Colin who is at
fault on this matter it was the manufacturer and most likely the
manufacturer's supplier was at fault too. I think it is most definateley wrong
to blame the DESIGNER for a manufacturing fault. Thats just like blaming the
Electricity company for a burst water pipe!!! OK so the first 360's DID drift a
bit and some spoilt pussies whinge and whine about it getting on their high
horse shouting about FA. It takes two clicks on the trim and you're done. Cant
you live with that?? Another thing to remember is that Colin Mill bought out
his gyro featuring all this new HH technology at a SENSIBLE price. Now when I
first heard of the CSM 360 I was expecting a price tag close to £300 along the
lines of the JR 3000. No, not even close. Colin smashed prices, kicked all the
other manufacturers in the balls and made things more affordable for all of us.
Not only has he revolutionised model heli flying giving all of us many more
opportunities then we had previously but he's not charging megabucks for his
technology. CSM have handled the matter in a very professional way. I'm sure
Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day it was
a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!! I just got my new (
fault free ) ICG 540 back from Bob J. One day turn around isn't bad is it?? In
fact I call that pretty good service. So I'm off to fly it and I'll let ya know
how it flies later!
Will Beasley,
in hot and sunny Oxford UK.
Gary Heath
you.
Such is their nature......
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WILLB33345 wrote in message
<19990522042234...@ng-ck1.aol.com>...
BF
I have missed the initial message of this thread and all the follow
ups.
Could somebody please tell me what the problem is with the ICG 540.
Regards
Barry
Beavis
<vde...@aol.com> writes
>OK- let me see if I got this straight. This is the same company that when they
>initially released the icg 360 gyro had a recall on that one also. The same
>company that I thought would NEVER let that happen again, and then I bought
>one of thier new 540 gyro's. Let's take a count of the number of recalls for
>other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right, there have
>been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge). This is my
>first HH gyro that I have purchased, it is not turning out to be a pleasant
>experience. Oh well, I guess it is time to go home and box it up and send it
>back across the pond.
Well that's about THE pissiest response I have EVER had the misfortune
to read on this NG. Here we have a company that's discovered a problem,
and had the idea that informing people and doing something about it
would be a good idea, or to put it another way, had balls to come hear
and tell the world. Now what do we get? A whining wussy response from
someone who OBVIOUSLY prefers to know nothing.
Vince I know you know more about helicopters and flying than some on
here, but for Christs sake man, get a grip! I say when a company finds a
problem it SHOULD "report" it and re-call possible faulty items, and
this is exactly what CSM has done, but STILL you're not satisfied. Maybe
you'd prefer it if your gyro went tits up and caused your heli to pile
in so you could have a REALLY good cry?
What is it that you REALLY want? Don't answer.
Beav
--
Beavis
You can E-MAil me at the usual place (Beavis at nachos dot demon dot co dot uk)
Or you can visit my website (although why you'd want to I have NO idea) at
Pat Leong
> all of us. Without Colin we'd still be farting around with non HH gyro's.
> first heard of the CSM 360 I was expecting a price tag close to £300 along the
> lines of the JR 3000. No, not even close. Colin smashed prices, kicked all the
> other manufacturers in the balls and made things more affordable for all of us.
Will, I didn't recognize you with your lips that far away from Collin's
rear. If I recall, Arcamax came up w/ a cheaper HH gyro at about the
same time the CSM 360 was launched. Quit giving all the credits to CSM.
Personally, for the price range, I prefer the Helimax HH, no drift.
I'm sure
> Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day it was
> a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!!
I think that's what Bill Gates say about the 100 patches required
for any new Microsoft operating systems. The truth is we have to hold
manufacturers to a higher standard of quality control. Just because
CSM admits to the problem does not make them less accountable. I don't
buy the crap about them not being responsible because its the suppliers'
fault. CSM is ultimately responsible becuse THEY chose the supplier,
perhaps due to cheap labor or lower cost.
Timothy Morris
Pat Leong <patl...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:374A2F...@ix.netcom.com...
> Will, I didn't recognize you with your lips that far away from Collin's
> rear. If I recall, Arcamax came up w/ a cheaper HH gyro at about the
> same time the CSM 360 was launched. Quit giving all the credits to CSM.
> Personally, for the price range, I prefer the Helimax HH, no drift.
>
DRIFT, and built in auto trim for the tail rotor. While most will fly with
default settings, advanced pilots can adjust it using included PC
interface.>
> I'm sure
> > Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day
it was
> > a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!!
>
> I think that's what Bill Gates say about the 100 patches required
> for any new Microsoft operating systems. The truth is we have to hold
> manufacturers to a higher standard of quality control. Just because
> CSM admits to the problem does not make them less accountable. I don't
> buy the crap about them not being responsible because its the suppliers'
> fault. CSM is ultimately responsible becuse THEY chose the supplier,
> perhaps due to cheap labor or lower cost.
You need to remove your head from your ass here. Normal QC wouldn't pick it
up. None of the current gyros have failed. There is a component in there
that MAY fail in the future, and would give rise to a loss in performance,
not a failure in the gyro. Only continuous soak testing of samples out of
the batch that was used would show this up, and then only when one of the
faulty components was sampled. This is a fault that might have NEVER shown
up. If they tested every component to this level, before fitting them, they
wouldn't be able to make any gyros because all the components would have
exceeded their "usable lives". As to cheap labour, have a look at the board.
All the components are surface mounted to a double sided board, which means
that they have invested in a fully automated production line, which is the
most reliable way of manufacturing PCBs. Perhaps you should learn a little
about the discrete manufacturing process before you shout off your mouth.
They could have kept their fingers crossed, and mouths shut, not issued a
recall notice, and hoped that if any of the 250 that had been made failed,
they were being flown by pilots that wouldn't notice, or simply done things
on a "fix on fail" basis. This is how most manufacturers in the consumer
electronics business work.
I can't believe that a manufacturer has gone to the expense of issuing a
recall notice because a handful of gyros out of 250 MAY fail, and there is
so much whining going on. You are so full of shit. Try doing something like
this yourself, and then come back and complain.
Tim.
MArmitstead
> Will, I didn't recognize you with your lips that far away from Collin's
> rear. If I recall, Arcamax came up w/ a cheaper HH gyro at about the
> same time the CSM 360 was launched. Quit giving all the credits to CSM.
> Personally, for the price range, I prefer the Helimax HH, no drift.
>
Pat,
I thought Arcamax just copied the HH idea,the same as evry f****r
else is now doing.
Martin
Beavis
<patl...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>> I think its fair to say that cussing CSM is silly. Look where this man has got
>> all of us. Without Colin we'd still be farting around with non HH gyro's.
>> his gyro featuring all this new HH technology at a SENSIBLE price. Now when I
>> first heard of the CSM 360 I was expecting a price tag close to £300 along the
>> lines of the JR 3000. No, not even close. Colin smashed prices, kicked all the
>> other manufacturers in the balls and made things more affordable for all of
>us.
>
>rear. If I recall, Arcamax came up w/ a cheaper HH gyro at about the
>same time the CSM 360 was launched. Quit giving all the credits to CSM.
>Personally, for the price range, I prefer the Helimax HH, no drift.
Well there's your answer Pat. Buy the Arcamax and have fun.
>
>
>I'm sure
>> Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day it was
>> a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!!
>
>I think that's what Bill Gates say about the 100 patches required
>for any new Microsoft operating systems. The truth is we have to hold
>manufacturers to a higher standard of quality control. Just because
>CSM admits to the problem does not make them less accountable. I don't
>buy the crap about them not being responsible because its the suppliers'
>fault. CSM is ultimately responsible becuse THEY chose the supplier,
>perhaps due to cheap labor or lower cost.
Yeah, they get 'em made in your back yard!
Beav
WILLB33345
Some asshole wrote....
>>Will, I didn't recognize you with your lips that far away from Collin's
> rear. If I recall, Arcamax came up w/ a cheaper HH gyro at about the
> same time the CSM 360 was launched. Quit giving all the credits to CSM.
> Personally, for the price range, I prefer the Helimax HH, no drift.>>
Look I dont care who came up with the idea first. I think this arguamnet is
straying into an arguament between British VS American Technology. Thats not
what I was trying to do. All I was saying was that its just a minor glitch for
CSM. I'm not forcing you to fly CSM. You seem like an opinionated person to me
so go and buy and fly with what the fuck you like... at the end of the day
what do I care? I'm not in any way connected with CSM.... I am a customer just
like yourself. All I was trying to do was to put a more balanced side to the
arguament instead of weenies like yourself saying " ohhh we made this we made
that and its better than your crap that came from England and we're more
perfect than you are". Frankly ....what do I care? I got a GY 501 and thats
made in Japan and its fine for me I have no problems BUT other people have had
problems with it such as full tail lockout on stall turns etc..... If you were
even half as intelligent as Colin Mill you'd get off your opinionated ass and
show the rest of us that you have got the balls to put your money where your
mouth is and try satifying someone like yourself by making the PERFECT gyro
instead of writing a oad of shite about a product that you have absoluteley no
experience with. However I can appreciate from your writings on this newsgroup
that you've got no more intelligence than a single celled organism, and until
you can appreciate that mistakes can and will happen in everything in life,
take a back seat, shut up and do everyone a favour please.
Yours with venom
Gary Heath
Also (while on the subject) the original problem with the 360 as I recall,
was explained as a "selection" problem with the element, that CSM needed to
refine in their receiving inspection process, and 'not' a problem with the
component not meeting the supplier's specification. In other words, CSM
needed to "cherry pick" the elements to make the gyros work. The rejected
elements 'did' meet the manufacturer's specifications.
Please (someone with first hand knowledge) correct me if this is in error.
I 'believe' Colin explained that in the various heli forums on the net just
after the original CSM's were sold at the price of ~$175 packaged in a zip
lock baggie with an apology for the "amateurish attempt to get the product
to market".
It seems to me that if all the players have the same opportunity to develop
a professional product, and all the players are getting the same components
or have access to the same quality of components, and all the players don't
have the same degree of problem, all the players are not created equal.
I guess somebody 'has' to be British!!! <BG>
I will say that from the vast majority of posts from the CSM home 'boys',
tells the entire story.
Just reading the comments from this CSM fan club, would be enough to make me
stay away. Heck......I fully expect a cyber "drive by" from the likes of
some of these foul mouthed authors.
If this conclusion does not meet with your approval then curb your dogs, as
'their' recent posts IMO make Brit's look like stiletto packing, back alley
punks........with bloody big brown noses!!! <G>
Gary " having fun yanking your collective chains" Heath
--
To Reply, Remove "NoGreenEggs-n-SPAM" From Address
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Beavis wrote in message ...
<SNIP>
Chris Young
Gary Heath
Gary
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Dave Raines wrote in message <374B7AD7...@fuse.net>...
>FYI, Arcamax has packaged their HH gyros in the same manner.
Dave Raines
GianMarco Rizzo
>
> >Let's take a count of the number of recalls for
> >other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right, there have
> >been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge).
>
CSM did the right thing. i can understand that some user would have been
happier not knowing it
if our wife is cheating us we live happily as far as we ignore it right?
hehe
anyway i don't know if anyone here has ever been testing something like
a software or hardware product. there is NO feasible way to 100% test a
sophisticated thing like software running on hardware.
the only reasonnable thing is do a "good enough testing" and release the
product knowing it will have some flaw. then some manufacturer have the
balls to recall or fix the product after the flaws are discovered. other
almost everybody here is using the most flawed product in the world that
is a pc running windows OS and software and nobody complains so much
think about it: what if your gyro every now and then stops working
without apaprent reason and giving some exotic error message.
if any of the guys here have time have a look at
http://www.esrin.esa.it/htdocs/tidc/Press/Press96/ariane5rep.html
and see how an army of well payed engineers and contractors can turn a
$500 million rocket and payload into an expensive firework due to a flaw
in a piece of software
ciao
gianmarco
Enter your name here
>
>Well there's your answer Pat. Buy the Arcamax and have fun.
I did and I do!
>>I'm sure
>>> Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day
it was
>>> a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!!
>>
CSM is ultimately responsible becuse THEY chose the supplier,
>>perhaps due to cheap labor or lower cost.
>
>Yeah, they get 'em made in your back yard!
>
>Beav
I fail to understand how my living in Minneapolis have anything to do w/
it butt head...I mean Beavis.
Pat L
Beavis
<patl...@ix.netcom.com> writes
>
>>
>>Well there's your answer Pat. Buy the Arcamax and have fun.
>
>
>I did and I do!
Well what the fuck are you whinging about then? Just go flying.
>
>
>>>I'm sure
>>>> Colin didn't want to have to recall the 540's but at the end of the day
>it was
>>>> a matter out of his control and after all he's only human!!
>>>
>CSM is ultimately responsible becuse THEY chose the supplier,
>>>perhaps due to cheap labor or lower cost.
>>
>>Yeah, they get 'em made in your back yard!
>>
>>Beav
>
>I fail to understand how my living in Minneapolis have anything to do w/
>it butt head...I mean Beavis.
Many have tried and meant have failed. Welcome to the list
Beav
Patrick Leong
Beavis <Bea...@nachos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>Well there's your answer Pat. Buy the Arcamax and have fun.
>>
>>
>>I did and I do!
>
>Well what the fuck are you whinging about then? Just go flying.
>>
>>
I see you're familiar w/ net discussion rule no. 1: always resort to profanity
when all else fail.
Beavis
<patl...@ix.netcom.com> writes
FailSSSSSSSSSSSS
Beav
Rudy
for the Arcamax PI. It would lose the end points in FLIGHT, the new
software fixed this. Anybody can have a bug, while it's a problem what's
important is what they do once they know it.
Rudy Ackerman
Houston TX
VDeller wrote in message <19990520152821...@ng-fu1.aol.com>...
>OK- let me see if I got this straight. This is the same company that when
they
>initially released the icg 360 gyro had a recall on that one also. The
same
>company that I thought would NEVER let that happen again, and then I
bought
>one of thier new 540 gyro's. Let's take a count of the number of recalls
for
>other companies, Arcamax-0, futaba gy-501-0,oh yeah that's right, there
have
>been no recalls by other HH gyro manufacturers( to my knowledge). This is
my
>first HH gyro that I have purchased, it is not turning out to be a pleasant
>experience. Oh well, I guess it is time to go home and box it up and send
it
>back across the pond.
> Vince D
>
>>CSM ICG540 GYRO RECALL
>>
>>We have been informed by our PCB assembler of a component defect that
>>could
>>potentially affect the performance of some of the initial batch of
>>ICG540
>>gyros. Gyros purchased between 8th May 1999 and 20th May 1999 should
>>be
>>returned
>>for checking. This may be done by returning the unit to your supplier.
>>Replacement units are being shipped out now in order to minimise
>>delays.
>>
>>This recall is precautionary and only affects the new ICG540.
>>
>>The ICG360 and ICG180 units are unaffected.
>>
>>If you need further information please contact us directly.
>>
>>CSM would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Colin S. Mill
>
>
Chris Young
Fly what you like!!!
Personally, I'd sooner fly no gyro at all than an arcajunk, oops,
arcasmack, I mean Arcamax.:) I thought it was maybe just me having a
prejudice against the company at first, but having watched the other
flyers around me for the last year and a half or so has convinced me
otherwise... Put it this way, of ALL of the people who have tried
them, ALL have had failures and only one of them is willing to keep
flying them, but then again, he really doesn't care if he puts a bird
in or not. He just gets a new one.
I have heard that some people have had good success with them, I hope
so, because here, we have had nothing but failure. Case in point,
last weekend one guy tried his 2700G model that he got replaced by
them (Due to the last one going south and totalling the machine and it
in turn was a replacement for yet another one that had stopped
working). Guess what, it was dead right out of the bag. Needless to
say, he is considering a particularly spectacular 'return' at IRCHA
that I think involves a 'new broken' gyro and a sledgehammer. :)
I am not an alarmist, but I believe in the once bitten twice shy
ideaology. To this whole aregument, I say, if you have something you
like and it WORKS, keep it. If it doesn't get rid of it.
Simple, eh?
Chris