Building a BTE Venture 60
DaveH
not yet opened.
I've read extensively through the various build threads and posts in
RCU regarding this plane, so I'm aware of typical mods--Clipping the
wing by one bay and using dual aileron servos, for example.
Despite this research, I've come to respect the quality of thought in
this group and simply ask for hints, suggestions, experiences,
ruminations--anything.
I will be using a Tower 75 with and Kangke SK90 carb, though I see
that Saitos seemed to preferred for this model. Just a note. Not
worried about engines right now.
Any comments at all guys! I always enjoy your input and reiterate my
appreciation for your help with my now deceased Superhots.
Regards,
Dave
Bill Fulmer
in thickness than the standard ribs OUTSIDE the planked center section. I
then sheeted the wing forward of the main spar and cap-stripped the ribs,
using 3/32" balsa. This gave me a "D-tube" wing with the same airfoil as
the original design. I feel this is much stronger than the "turbulated
spar" design, at very little cost in weight. It flies with a Futaba 9C w/
dual aileron servos and it's powered with an OS Surpass .91.
It's the best sport flyer I have ever owned.
Here it is:
http://www.customcutgrafix.com/venture1.jpg
Bill
http://www.customcutgrafix.com/
.
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hmh7a35mnrse93inv...@4ax.com...
H Davis
Bill and a few others provided comments when I posted the same request
several months back. I also did a search, as you did, and read everything on
the web about the Venture 60. Its still sitting here in the box, since I
decided to build a less expensive Uproar first in order to learn how modern
glues and building methods differed from the stuff I used 45 years ago. I'm
glad I did, because I made some errors and learned a bunch about building.
I've been busy flying this summer, so I haven't yet covered the Uproar yet.
I still have things to learn (but don't we all).
In any case, I won't be starting the Venture 60 until late fall, so I'll be
interested in how you are progressing. Like you, I have been planning on
putting a new Tower 75 on the plane, but I also have a .91 Surpass that I
may use. I'm not sure if I will clip the wing or not.
Harlan
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hmh7a35mnrse93inv...@4ax.com...
DaveH
>I left my wing at full length, but I made a formica rib pattern 3/32" less
>in thickness than the standard ribs OUTSIDE the planked center section. I
>then sheeted the wing forward of the main spar and cap-stripped the ribs,
>using 3/32" balsa. This gave me a "D-tube" wing with the same airfoil as
>the original design. I feel this is much stronger than the "turbulated
>spar" design, at very little cost in weight. It flies with a Futaba 9C w/
>dual aileron servos and it's powered with an OS Surpass .91.
>
>It's the best sport flyer I have ever owned.
Bill,
The D-tube mod is interesting indeed. But I must ask if you think such
a mod has tangible benefits for the Venture 60? I've not heard, for
example, of problems with structural weakness of the V60's wing in its
stock form. Anyway, interesting and challenging mod.
Gratifying to hear that it is the best sport flyer you've ever owned.
Apparently its characteristics do favor a 4-stroke. Bruce is
unambiguous about this. I should say that I've already pestered Bruce
with multiple calls and he is the best, bar none. Thanks for your
input.
Oh yes did you use dual Aileron servos?
Dave
DaveH
>Dave:
>
>Bill and a few others provided comments when I posted the same request
>several months back. I also did a search, as you did, and read everything on
>the web about the Venture 60. Its still sitting here in the box, since I
>decided to build a less expensive Uproar first in order to learn how modern
>glues and building methods differed from the stuff I used 45 years ago. I'm
>glad I did, because I made some errors and learned a bunch about building.
>I've been busy flying this summer, so I haven't yet covered the Uproar yet.
>I still have things to learn (but don't we all).
>
>In any case, I won't be starting the Venture 60 until late fall, so I'll be
>interested in how you are progressing. Like you, I have been planning on
>putting a new Tower 75 on the plane, but I also have a .91 Surpass that I
>may use. I'm not sure if I will clip the wing or not.
Harlan,
Very interesting and somewhat coincidental that you decided to build
the less expensive Uproar first for use as a re-acclimation step. I've
built about 5 kits but it has been a while--not nearly as long as
your 45 years, about 15 years in my case. But in any case, memory of
technique fades, especially in the adhesives area.
For these reasons, just like you, I've considered building a less
expensive -- essentially more expendable--model just as you have
before tackling the Venture 60.
It is a consideration, but something I'll probably not do. I'll just
dive into the V60. My initial problem is constructing a new building
surface. The initial one is shot.
Dave
H Davis
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
>
>>>
> Harlan,
> Very interesting and somewhat coincidental that you decided to build
> the less expensive Uproar first for use as a re-acclimation step. I've
> built about 5 kits but it has been a while--not nearly as long as
> your 45 years, about 15 years in my case. But in any case, memory of
> technique fades, especially in the adhesives area.
>
> For these reasons, just like you, I've considered building a less
> expensive -- essentially more expendable--model just as you have
> before tackling the Venture 60.
>
> It is a consideration, but something I'll probably not do. I'll just
> dive into the V60. My initial problem is constructing a new building
> surface. The initial one is shot.
> Dave
Dave:
The building surface was another problem I had when I decided to start
building again. I have a pool table in my basement that hasn't been used
since the kids grew up and moved out, so I put a piece of 8' x 4' x
3/4"plywood over it. Its just big enough. Then I bought a 4' x 4' piece of
gypsum board, cut it in half and laid that on the plywood. So far its been a
really great building board that doesn't warp. The only problem is that the
table is just slightly lower than I would prefer. Obviously two sides of the
gypsum board were cut, so I covered that raw "gypsum" with duct tape.
Perfect! You might want to give it a shot. Its cheap and holds pins very
well.
Harlan
Bob Cowell
wrote:
Ok, I'm gonna stick my $0.02 in here.
I built a Sig 4-star 60 (Which was actually an earlier Bruce Tharpe design)
I kept the turbulator design, but put shear webs on the back of the main spars,
and inserted some thin balsa sheeting between the top spar and the back of the
leading edge, and between the bottom spar and the leading edge.
not a "D" tube, but a triangular "tube" the length of the wing,
I did it NOT because the wing needed more structural strength, but to improve
the torsional stability of the wing so that the covering was not so big a factor
in keeping the twist out of the wing.
I used two servos for the ailerons, and left the trailing edges perfectly
square,
IF memory serves, the Venture 60 has pre-machined tapered aileron stock, so
that is not an issue.
The thing was a SWEET flyer, I flew mine with a Saito .91,
I finally killed it (DUMB thumbs) one day when I didn't do the proper spin
recovery technique,
bob
DaveH
>Ok, I'm gonna stick my $0.02 in here.
>
>I built a Sig 4-star 60 (Which was actually an earlier Bruce Tharpe design)
>I kept the turbulator design, but put shear webs on the back of the main spars,
>and inserted some thin balsa sheeting between the top spar and the back of the
>leading edge, and between the bottom spar and the leading edge.
>not a "D" tube, but a triangular "tube" the length of the wing,
>
>I did it NOT because the wing needed more structural strength, but to improve
>the torsional stability of the wing so that the covering was not so big a factor
>in keeping the twist out of the wing.
>
>I used two servos for the ailerons, and left the trailing edges perfectly
>square,
>IF memory serves, the Venture 60 has pre-machined tapered aileron stock, so
>that is not an issue.
>
>The thing was a SWEET flyer, I flew mine with a Saito .91,
>I finally killed it (DUMB thumbs) one day when I didn't do the proper spin
>recovery technique,
>
>bob
Yes...yes of course. These are things one forgets: torsional stability
and twist avoidance while covering. It does look like the V60's wing
could be quite susceptible to this. Blast. A decent covering job is
hard enough without having to strategically heat various sections to
pull out twist.
Welp...This is why I started this thread. Such mods would not have
occurred to me.
I must say I don't recall any RCU posts complaining of twist problems
on the V60 wing. I'll have to take another look. Nevertheless.
improving torsional rigidity does significantly reduce some anxieties.
Thanks Bob,
Dave
DaveH
>Dave:
>
>The building surface was another problem I had when I decided to start
>building again. I have a pool table in my basement that hasn't been used
>since the kids grew up and moved out, so I put a piece of 8' x 4' x
>3/4"plywood over it. Its just big enough. Then I bought a 4' x 4' piece of
>gypsum board, cut it in half and laid that on the plywood. So far its been a
>really great building board that doesn't warp. The only problem is that the
>table is just slightly lower than I would prefer. Obviously two sides of the
>gypsum board were cut, so I covered that raw "gypsum" with duct tape.
>Perfect! You might want to give it a shot. Its cheap and holds pins very
>well.
>
>Harlan
building board consisted of a 20" x 40" 1/4' thick mirror to which I
glued some sort of fibrous (insulation?) board. Don't know what is or
where I got it. It worked but is too fibrous and is now shredded and
cratered. Useless.
I thought I covering the other side of that mirror with a pin-able
board of some type. There are the usual suspects: cork, homosote,
drywall. Drywall may be your gypsum board. Not sure. Taking a trip to
Lowes.
I really wish I could simply dive in and start building, but after so
long--much longer in your case--a lot of re-tooling is necessary, and
building board seems to be modelers perpetual dilemma.
I also wonder if there is a readily available substitute for T-pins?
Probably not.
I've considered using the steel plate/magnet arrangement, but simply
don't know if I'll do enough future building to warrant the work that
entails. Rumour suggests the Great Planes system is junky, so
perfectionist me would insist on building my own.
Dave
H Davis
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
>
>>Harlan
> Interesting solution Harlan. You used Gypsum board. My original
> building board consisted of a 20" x 40" 1/4' thick mirror to which I
> glued some sort of fibrous (insulation?) board. Don't know what is or
> where I got it. It worked but is too fibrous and is now shredded and
> cratered. Useless.
>
> I thought I covering the other side of that mirror with a pin-able
> board of some type. There are the usual suspects: cork, homosote,
> drywall. Drywall may be your gypsum board. Not sure. Taking a trip to
> Lowes.
>
> I really wish I could simply dive in and start building, but after so
> long--much longer in your case--a lot of re-tooling is necessary, and
> building board seems to be modelers perpetual dilemma.
>
> I also wonder if there is a readily available substitute for T-pins?
> Probably not.
>
> I've considered using the steel plate/magnet arrangement, but simply
> don't know if I'll do enough future building to warrant the work that
> entails. Rumour suggests the Great Planes system is junky, so
> perfectionist me would insist on building my own.
> Dave
>
Yep, drywall and gypsum board are the same thing in my mind, but a pro might
prove me wrong.
I haven't found a substitute for T-pins that I thought was better, so far.
I've heard about the magnet thing, but it sounds like too much trouble as
well as being expensive. I like the option of being able to buy enough
T-pins at a wide variety of places or , in a pinch, using my wife's sewing
pins. (Just don't tell her.)
I also bought a 25 lb. bag of lead shot some time back. I used a very small
portion of the bag to swingweight some golf clubs I was making, and recently
learned that little bags (old socks) of lead shot were kind of handy when
building. That blue paint tape that 3M sells is also handy. Then there are
those little plastic clamps that you can purchase for a few bucks for a bag
of them. Those black, springy paper clips are almost as handy although they
tend to make an indentation on balsa.
Harlan
Fubar of The HillPeople
dual aileron servos and use a Magnum .91FS. I doubt I will cut the wingspan
down.
On a side note, the Uproar is a fun little plane. Its pretty durable too
unless you go in full throttle. Apparently the rubberbands holding the foam
around the batt pack vibrated thru the foam, got to one of the straps
connecting the batt cells and shorted it against the cell case.
When I build another, I will mount the engine sideways to put the muffler
under the plane and modify the rudder to make it counter-balanced.
Engine was an OS .32SX. A real screamer.
Man, I miss that plane.
--
Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
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Fubar of The HillPeople
thats the brand. They are thinner than T pins. I highly recommend em.
--
Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
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Fubar of The HillPeople
The Pelikan Pins are better than the Modela pins IMHO. Ive used both.
--
Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply
"H Davis" <hda...@REMOVEwowway.com> wrote in message
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Morgans
"Fubar of The HillPeople" > wrote
> I, too, have a Venture 60 waiting to be built. When it happens it will have
> dual aileron servos
Just curious, but I am wondering if you all are talking about dual aileron
servos as in one on each side, or two on each side? (4 servos total for all of
the ailerons)
--
Jim in NC
MJKolodziej
board as we speak(type). I aslo still hve 60 size Hots to be repaired.
Small world(news group).
mk
"Fubar of The HillPeople" <fub...@trashsocal.rr.com> wrote in message
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MJKolodziej
"Morgans" <jsmo...@charterJUNK.net> wrote in message
news:a%xpi.64$TH6...@newsfe03.lga...
Speaking for myself, one on each side, OR, two in the center, one for each
aileron. As long as I have an aileron working if one servo fails. We used
one servo for ailerons for centuries(ok decades) and it worked fine. One
reliable servo would reduce weight.
mk
Bill Fulmer
I did use dual aileron servos, and had noted that fact in my commentary....
ALL the servos I used in the ship are ball bearing S3001 Futaba....
If I recall, Bruce made a serious recommendation in his manual to cover the
wing with MonoKote because of the open spar design. With light covering,
the wing WILL flex
I've known Bruce for many years, and we have had our booths close together
at many trade shows...
He opted for the turbulated spar because of the weight savings, and told me
he would rather see me use a .70 Surpass rather than the .91....
I wanted the strength of the D-tube wing, and I don't dispute the fact my
wing is a bit heavier than the original. The .91 Surpass, though, gives me
unlimited vertical, and the d-tube wing lets me have some rather wicked snap
rolls and directional changes without the fear of folding the wing, and the
V-60 still lands at a walk
My mods accomplished exactly what I wanted of the ship, and I thought long
and hard before I made them...
I'd do it again...
Bill
"DaveH" <ddhar...@FUTILITYearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6h7aa391677mmgtuq...@4ax.com...
H Davis
It appears that Bruce has discontinued production of the Venture 60. "All
accessories and some replacement parts remain in stock."
Sorry to see it go. Its out of production and I haven't even started mine
yet. Guess I got on the wagon a little late. Ah, heck, it'll make building
and flying it that much more special.
Harlan
"Bill Fulmer" <graf...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:OLPpi.14247$5y.1...@newsfe18.lga...
Fubar of The HillPeople
--
Dan
AMA605992
KE6ERB
http://www.fubar1.net
"I've heard the screams of the vegetables..."
Take out the "trash" to reply
"H Davis" <hda...@REMOVEwowway.com> wrote in message
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H Davis
The website indicates he has permanently ended production of the kit.
Harlan
"Fubar of The HillPeople" <fub...@trashsocal.rr.com> wrote in message
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Fubar of The HillPeople
Sure glad I jumped when they became available last time.
C'mon, autumn! Too hot to build right now.
"H Davis" <hda...@REMOVEwowway.com> wrote in message
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Mbart99
--
For full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/air/building-a-bte-venture-60-55256-.htm