Newbie question on dope, decals, and Guillows
Al
Hi all.
I am a newbie to this NG, and if I read it enough I'm afraid the RC
hobby might "get" me. But that's a risk I just gotta take. It's
interesting reading...
I have a question that shows my Rank Newbieness, but I would like an
answer before I mangle another Guillow's model. (I get the feeling that
Guillows is not a serious RC plane, but that's OK, I just build them for
the pleasure, the learning, and the "show piece".)
I don't really know what dope is. I figure it's a finishing thing, but
it seems to work as Glue and as Paint and as Gloss. I don't know. Since
I don't know, I've used only enamel paint on the last two Guillows
models I've built. It looks a little dull, and I'm not satisified with
it--particularly since the DECALS just wont stay on! I suppose that's
because I'm using a wrong type of paint and should use dope. Or is it
the poor quality of decals that come in the kit??
Advice on dope, paint, decals would be appreciated. My next Guillows
model, a WWI Nieuport, depends on it!
Thanks
Al
Gary
Al , I can't resist trying to help a beginner. 1) Guillows kits are not
really good rubber powered flying models ( too heavy) 2) If you a lot of
building and flying skill, a Guillows kit can be beefed up and successfully
adapted to rudder and elevator control, using micro mini R/C gear ( not
cheap) . ( Not for newbies , but a real challenge for fliers with good
reflexes and small plane experience). Cox TD .020 and .049 engines are very
powerful for their size, they are touchy in terms of plugged fuel passages,
build-up of varnish in the cylinder etc. (special maintenance skills
required). 3)Build the Guillows kits and hang ,em from your ceiling, they
are good building experience . 5) Important-Join an R/C club and get some
flying experience with a good instructor. Clubs usually bend over backwards
trying to help begineers sometimes donating used R/C gear, engines, kits
etc. If you find that you really want to commit to the hobby, save up $200
to $300, build a good 40-size, high wing, 3-wheel "trainer" All Ready to
Fly (ARF) kit with a popular brand engine and R/C system. You will also need
tools and support equipment and training in how to build, start and adjust
engines and fly safely.
P.S. Dope is like lacquer. it was the original real airplane paint. Dope is
getting hard to get, most builders are using iron-on plastic filmfor larger
size models so hobby shops often let their supplies of dopes and thinner
run out . For your Guillows kits try to get Sig brand clear "nitrate" dope
for sticking tissue to framework and for filling tissue and thinner ( for
cleaning brushes). For final colors you can use spray polyurethane paints or
dopes. If you want to try an engine, you will need to coat the engine
compartment with epoxy and paint the plane with "butyrate" dope (Aerogloss)
(otherwise the fuel will melt the dope).Guillows also has instructions for
using white glue for tissue covering.
Good Luck ,
ga...@quick.net
Al wrote in message <34FA21...@myhouse.atall>...
>Hi all.
>
>I am a newbie to this NG, and if I read it enough I'm afraid the RC
>I don't really know what dope is. I figure it's a finishing thing, but
>models I've built. . >
Al
Al wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am a newbie to this NG, and if I read it enough I'm afraid the RC
> interesting reading...
>
> I have a question that shows my Rank Newbieness, but I would like an
> answer before I mangle another Guillow's model. (I get the feeling that
> Guillows is not a serious RC plane, but that's OK, I just build them for
> the pleasure, the learning, and the "show piece".)
>
> I don't know, I've used only enamel paint on the last two Guillows
> models I've built. It looks a little dull, and I'm not satisified with
> it--particularly since the DECALS just wont stay on! I suppose that's
> because I'm using a wrong type of paint and should use dope. Or is it
> the poor quality of decals that come in the kit??
>
> model, a WWI Nieuport, depends on it!
>
> Thanks
> Al
Thanks for your inputs guys. Appreciate it!
Al
tail...@airnet.net
n article <34FA21...@myhouse.atall>,
Al <Donts...@myhouse.atall> wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am a newbie to this NG, and if I read it enough I'm afraid the RC
> hobby might "get" me. But that's a risk I just gotta take. It's
> interesting reading...
>
> I have a question that shows my Rank Newbieness, but I would like an
> answer before I mangle another Guillow's model.
If you can build a Guillow's kit - you are far above many of us who build/fly
RC! :-) I can't for the life of me manage to make one of those kits look
half-way decent and I believe take more patience than any R/C plane I have
ever built. Once you past Guillow's - you are a better man than before <g>
Jerry
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Richard Johnson
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They'll be happy to answer all your questions and there's some real
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RSabast
Dear Newbie:
Congratulations on your new hobby. I have built many Guillows kits and enjoy
them very much. They look great, but are not the best choice for r/c, although
it can be done. First, to build the Nieuport into a flyer (and I have done it
with that kit), go to the shop and replace the Guillow wood with good Sig or
Midwest balsa. You'll see the difference between that and the kit wood right
away. Enough wood will only cost a few dollars. You'll have to cut out the
parts per the plan and make a new "kit". Dope is available at a good hobby shop
too - use clear dope to seal the tissue and colors are available too. Your
Nieuport had a silver finish overall, silver dope will look great, especially
with the indian head decals. You are going to have real trouble fitting r/c
gear into one of those planes, they are not really designed for it. You might
have more luck with making this into a u-control model, the modifications are
on the plan. If you pick up any of the r/c magazines, they list a lot of plans
and kits that are expressly designed for r/c that you'll find easier going.
Don't pick a complex scale kit for your first effort, like a plain jane
trainer like the Sig Kadet Senoir or Seniorita, or LT-40, or LT-20 will fly
really well, and if you can build a Guillow kit, they will be no problem. Plus,
they come with a lot of r/c info too.
Good luck. Bob
Ken Bird
AL
Dope is generally a cellulose based material, similar to laquer type
materials. It does posess both adhesive characteristics and those of a
finish. If you're using an adhesive like Sigment or Ambroid, you will
probably find the smell to be similar but they are not the same as dope.
Clear dope is typically used to adhere the tissue or silkspan to the model,
followed by a couple of coats of clear on the tissue itself once the tissue
is on the model and shrunk (with water or rubbing alcohol). The pigmented
(color) dope is then used, followed by a clear topcoat of dope. Prior to
applying the clear topcoat would be the time to apply your decals but be
careful. The clear has a tendancy to eat into decals so a very light coat
just on the decals before going over the whole model with the clear will
help prevent your decals from being ruined. If you are trying to save
weight, think about using colored tissue instead of colored dope as the
pigments in the dope are heavy. If it is just a static display type model,
weight will not be a factor. Another thing to consider is to not mix
different types of finishing materials together. Dope will not adhere
properly to an enamel base for example. The enamel is likely the reason your
decals won't adhere. I have a significant amount of experience with dope and
other finishes, if you have any more questions, feel free to contact me.
Hope this helps.
Ken Bird
Al wrote in message <34FA21...@myhouse.atall>...
Paul Ryan
Al:
I was there once myself, let me fill you in a little.
Guillows kits fly okay as free-flight (no control other than your
pre-set adjustments) and are really best kept as showpieces to hang in
your living room (the girls will love that idea) or shop.
They actually take quite a bit of skill to make well, and even more
to get them to fly free flight. The wood in them is not as heavy as it
was years ago, and with judicious sanding will often work just fine,
even for flying.
Dope is the adhesive used to stick the tissue to the framework, then
after watershrinking, is used to fill the grain, and seal that tissue
covering. In the interest of better adhesion, first pre-dope and
lightly sand all structure to which the tissue edges will be sealed.
All coats except the last color coats should be clear dope, thinned a
little, about 30%-50%. These days the dope comes so thin this may not
be necessary. Dope will shrink and draw the covering tight, as well as
protect and strengthen the covering job. Too much dope, however, can
shrink so much that it warps the surfaces, so be careful.
Enamel is heavy, slow drying and is rarely used in model airplanes
Al
Al wrote:
>
> Hi all.
>
> I am a newbie to this NG, and if I read it enough I'm afraid the RC
> hobby might "get" me. But that's a risk I just gotta take. It's
>
> I have a question that shows my Rank Newbieness, but I would like an
> Guillows is not a serious RC plane, but that's OK, I just build them for
> the pleasure, the learning, and the "show piece".)
>
> I don't really know what dope is. I figure it's a finishing thing, but
> it seems to work as Glue and as Paint and as Gloss. I don't know. Since
> I don't know, I've used only enamel paint on the last two Guillows
> models I've built. It looks a little dull, and I'm not satisified with
> it--particularly since the DECALS just wont stay on! I suppose that's
> because I'm using a wrong type of paint and should use dope. Or is it
> the poor quality of decals that come in the kit??
>
> Advice on dope, paint, decals would be appreciated. My next Guillows
> model, a WWI Nieuport, depends on it!
>
> Thanks
> Al
Thanks again guys. You've really helped me. Anybody know some good
mail-order place for the dope? I'm in the sticks here and the only hobby
shop around is pretty poor. (I've looked).
Tom
My son and I are currently finishing up a Guillows Typhoon in which he built
the airframe and I opted to cover with tissue. I have built all sorts of
Guillows models ove the past 25 years, but this time I opted to adhere the
tissue with a 50/50 mixture of elmers white glue and water brushed on to the
edges of the frame where the tissue is to stick. It has worked out
exceptionally well and the dope over top doesn't affect it at all. I would
recommend the glue mixture to anyone. Dope has a tendency to be a little
difficult to stick the tissue at times. And the white glue washes off your
fingers and brush without solvent.
Give it a try.
(Sure wish I could get my dope in quart jars for $1.25 like I used to when I
was a kid instead of paying through the nose like we have to now).