Zenoah gas motors ...?
Bernard
Heard anything good or bad about them?
Please tell me all.
Thanks
Bernard
Vince
You will absolutely not find a better engine for the money. The entire
Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
Vince
--
Nihil est veritatis luce dulcius
Stephen Faust
>Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
>> Heard anything good or bad about them?
>>
>> Please tell me all.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Bernard
>
>You will absolutely not find a better engine for the money. The entire
>Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
>
>Vince
Ditto.
You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
You can't find a better engine for the money.
Steve
Vince
Yep, I am looking closely at a G62 for my P47, but that 3w-60i is awful
tempting. $585.00 and it's already got electronic ignition on it, and
that rear mounted carb is a big plus.
Robert H. Klenke
|> Vince <aur...@iAmerica.net> wrote:
|>
|> >Bernard wrote:
|> >>
|> >> Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
|> >> Heard anything good or bad about them?
|> >>
|> >> Please tell me all.
|> >>
|> >> Thanks
|> >>
|> >> Bernard
|> >
|> >You will absolutely not find a better engine for the money. The entire
|> >Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
|> >
|> >Vince
|>
|> Ditto.
|>
|> You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
|> You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
|> You can't find a better engine for the money.
|>
|> Steve
I don't know Steve, my G23 is 6 years old, and its only quit
twice and both times were due to fuel problems (i.e., I didn't fill
the tank properly, and I ran out!) I don't know what engine you could
get that's more reliable than that! More powerful, sure, less weight,
sure, but in my experience, I've never seen anything more reliable -
which more than makes up for the power and weight issues in my book.
Bob
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Klenke, Associate Professor Dept. of Electrical Engineering
rhkl...@vcu.edu Virginia Commonwealth University
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr1Driver
>Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
I LOVE my G-38! Starts on the first or second crank. I haven't touched the
needles in 9 months. It will idle for 10 minutes and throttle up instantly.
It runs smooth and has a lot of pull. 16 ounces of gas will fly it 30 minutes.
Gas is cheap! Anything bad? Yea, they're addicting!
Dr.1 Driver
(the pilot formerly known as Gerald43)
"There's a Hun in the sun!"
Scott Yeo
Just my 2 pennys worth get a Zenoah you will not reget it.
Beam me up Scotty
Red Scholefield
> |> >>
> |> >> Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
> |> >
> |> >Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
> |> >
> |> >Vince
> |>
> |> Ditto.
> |>
> |> You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
> |> You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
> |> You can't find a better engine for the money.
> |> Steve
>
> I don't know Steve, my G23 is 6 years old, and its only quit
> twice and both times were due to fuel problems (i.e., I didn't fill
> the tank properly, and I ran out!) I don't know what engine you could
> get that's more reliable than that! More powerful, sure, less weight,
> sure, but in my experience, I've never seen anything more reliable -
> which more than makes up for the power and weight issues in my book.
>
> Bob
Bob, reread what Steve said. :-)
The G23 was my first gas engine. It is still flying my first bigbird, Lazy
Ace. It will not hover, it will not do unlimited verticle, it will not
give you much experience in engine maintance. All that it does is run. On
a bad day or when I forget to fuel the tank it takes 3 flips. 7200 on a
16 X 8 with 87 octane (1.08/gal) and Klots Lubriplate 2 cycle oil ( really
splurge here - $2.50/qt). I bought a replacement plug for insurance but I
can't remember where it is.
Red Scholefield - AMA 951 IMAA 18939 - red...@gnv.fdt.net
Peter Ashwood-Smith
>Heard anything good or bad about them?
They are simply fantastic engines. They run and run
and run with basically no real problems if you avoid
the temptation to fiddle with them. They do however
shake a bit.
I think the G45 is probably the best powerplant for
the money for 18-22lb models and the G62 for 20-25lb
models.
Cheers,
Peter
--
+------------------------+-----------------------------------+
|Peter Ashwood-Smith | Email: pet...@nortel.ca |
|Northern Telecom | Work#: (613) 763-4534 |
|Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Home#: (819) 595-9032 |
| | Su26 : http://www.ibiska.com/orcc |
+------------------------+-----------------------------------+
Vince
> Thair is nothing wrong with the standard ignition!
> Think where it comes from . A guy stood in the rain forest cutting down
> balsa trees 12 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.
>
> He doze not wont to charge battery or wonder if the black boxes is
> working today.
> All the outer lower volume engines that use a standard pot but have a
> in house produced crank case have to use a add on electronic ign.
> because they can not mas produce a magneto Zenoh type. not because it is
> better.
>
> If you think you will never learn the slightly different starting
> tecnick, order one of the Jump start units with your engine. They add
> nothing to the weight.
>
> --
>
> Richard Crapp
I did not say that I would put an electronic ignition on a G62 if I was
to buy one, I was just making a comparison to the 3W-60i. And by the way
it is common knowledge that electronic ignition will make an engine
easier to start and will also cure the shakes at low idle. The spark
advance on an electronic ignition is retarded to about 4 degrees to
facilitate no kick back starts.
Vince
Richard Crapp
writes
>Stephen Faust wrote:
>>
>> Vince <aur...@iAmerica.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Bernard wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Heard anything good or bad about them?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >> Bernard
>> >
>> >Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
>> >
>> >Vince
>>
>> Ditto.
>>
>> You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
>> You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
>> You can't find a better engine for the money.
>>
>> Steve
>
>tempting. $585.00 and it's already got electronic ignition on it, and
>that rear mounted carb is a big plus.
Thair is nothing wrong with the standard ignition!
Think where it comes from . A guy stood in the rain forest cutting down
balsa trees 12 hours a day 7 days a week 365 days a year.
He doze not wont to charge battery or wonder if the black boxes is
working today.
All the outer lower volume engines that use a standard pot but have a
in house produced crank case have to use a add on electronic ign.
because they can not mas produce a magneto Zenoh type. not because it is
better.
If you think you will never learn the slightly different starting
tecnick, order one of the Jump start units with your engine. They add
nothing to the weight.
--
Richard Crapp
The older I get the better I was.
Stephen Faust
>In article <36139102...@news.ma.ultranet.com>, Xav...@ma.ultranet.com (Stephen Faust) writes:
>|> Vince <aur...@iAmerica.net> wrote:
>|>
>|> >Bernard wrote:
>|> >>
>|> >> Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
>|> >> Heard anything good or bad about them?
>|> >>
>|> >> Please tell me all.
>|> >>
>|> >> Thanks
>|> >>
>|> >> Bernard
>|> >
>|> >You will absolutely not find a better engine for the money. The entire
>|> >Zehoah line is legendary for it value and utter reliability.
>|> >
>|> >Vince
>|>
>|> Ditto.
>|>
>|> You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
>|> You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
>|> You can't find a better engine for the money.
>|>
>|> Steve
>
> I don't know Steve, my G23 is 6 years old, and its only quit
>twice and both times were due to fuel problems (i.e., I didn't fill
>the tank properly, and I ran out!) I don't know what engine you could
>get that's more reliable than that! More powerful, sure, less weight,
>sure, but in my experience, I've never seen anything more reliable -
>which more than makes up for the power and weight issues in my book.
>
>Bob
Bob,
I didn't mean to mislead you here.
Basically, I agree that the Zenoah is one good quality engine for the
money. I have a G62, and you couldn't pry it out of my hands. I haven't
touched the needle since the initial break in at the beginning of the
season. I had one deadstick, not because of the engine, but because the
fuel supply line detached from the fuel tank.
I run a C&H jump start on mine, and it fires up within a few flips. It has
never given me one problem, period.
If I didn't need the extra power of a 5.8 twin for my latest project, I
would just get another G62. Unfortunately, I need that little bit extra
that Zenoah doesn't have yet :-(
Read the last line of my statement, it sums up my feelings perfectly....
Steve
Dno1939
>(Zenoah) gas engines?
>Heard anything good or bad about them?
Easy starting, good power for their size (and ignition type).
Scott Yeo
came with the engine never worked) for my 3W-80 . It is know wonder that
Desert Aircraft stop working with 3W . By the way the whole time I was
flying a giant scale Stinger with a G-62 and had no trouble with the engine.
It always started and ran great and still does.
Beam me up Scotty
Brent Hudson
1and 1/2 years now...Tha backplate was a bit tinny so I replaced it with a
new aluminum one..
..no mess...uses very little fuel and swings an 18/10 at 6000
all in all I will NEVER buy a big glow engine (20cc+) again (I have several
ST3000's)
Cheers
Brent
Bernard wrote in message <6uu1e4$8m5$1...@hermes.is.co.za>...
>Do you have any experience with (Zenoah) gas engines?
>Heard anything good or bad about them?
>
John Bogush
Brent Hudson wrote in message <6uvbq9$nhd$1...@hermes.is.co.za>...
>..no mess...uses very little fuel and swings an 18/10 at 6000
>
>Brent
I have been test running my G-45 with an 18-10 and 20-8 at around 8200-8400
rpm on the ground. Is this too little prop and too much rpm for the G-45?
John Bogush
Gordon_M...@my-dejanews.com
pet...@bnr.ca (Peter Ashwood-Smith) wrote:
>
> I think the G45 is probably the best powerplant for
> the money for 18-22lb models and the G62 for 20-25lb
> models.
>
>
Yeah, they're good... and if you convert the G62 to run on alcohol,
WOW !! Incredible power !
Gordon
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Brent Hudson
more rpm's on the G38 as far as your G45 goes I guess you would want your
revs at about 6500 to 7500 so maybe you should try a 20X10, but I'm not sure
as Ive never used a G45.
My Father-in-law has a 24X10 on a 60cc 3W and if I can recall correctly it
swings at about 6500....
Cheers
Brent
John Bogush wrote in message ...
Robert H. Klenke
|> rh...@hal.ee.Virginia.EDU (Robert H. Klenke) wrote:
|>
|> >In article <36139102...@news.ma.ultranet.com>, Xav...@ma.ultranet.com (Stephen Faust) writes:
|> >|> Vince <aur...@iAmerica.net> wrote:
|> >|>
|> >|> >Bernard wrote:
|> >|> >>
|> >|> >> Heard anything good or bad about them?
|> >|> >>
|> >|> >> Please tell me all.
|> >|> >>
|> >|> >> Thanks
|> >|> >>
|> >|> >> Bernard
|> >|> >
Steve,
I should have put a :) in my reply, because basically I agree with
everything you said except that I don't think you could get a more
reliable engine for ANY amount of money. All of the ignition engines
are inherently less reliable because of the ignition system (and its
battery), and of the magnito engines, I've never seen one (Quadra, US
Engines, any of the various conversions, etc.) that is any more
reliable than the Zenoah.
So I would say:
You can find more powerful engines, for more money.
You can find lighter engines, for more money.
but you can't find anything more reliable for ANY
amount of money (except MAYBE electric motors).
Now if I could just get my glow motors to be half that
reliable, but that's another story :)
jimmc...@my-dejanews.com
I run a 20X10 on my Syclone 38 (locally built) & get ~7k rpm. I tend to keep
her a little rich but, I really don't need more power in my 22lb Tigermoth,
wouldn't be very scale-like.
Jim McIntyre
|
-=======/===-
I -(*)- I
-===/uu===-
#/ \#
"Monoplane: (n) half a plane."
Peter Ashwood-Smith
>to buy one, I was just making a comparison to the 3W-60i. And by the way
>it is common knowledge that electronic ignition will make an engine
>easier to start and will also cure the shakes at low idle. The spark
>advance on an electronic ignition is retarded to about 4 degrees to
>facilitate no kick back starts.
Since I own a G62 and two 70cc Sachs motors with electronic ignition
I feel competent to comment... not that incompetence ever stopped me
before ;)
If you need all out power to weight the electronic ignition has the
edge. It is easier to start like you said and is a bit smoother at
idle. BUT, and it is a big BUT, you have to charge batteries, keep an
eye on them, worry about the module not working etc. I have had an
ignition module stop working and had ignition batteries short (that was
not a pretty sight).
I think that for a warbird type of plane the G62 is perfect the
way it is but for the more aerobatic types a Sachs or 3W may be a
better choice. Mind you if you build the plane very light a G62 can
give sparkling performance.
One trick to lighten up the G62 is to cut the rear portion of the
crankshaft off. It just sticks out the back of the motor doing nothing
useful (unless you use a spring starter) and cutting it off will save
4 oz or so. Just take a Dremel cutoff wheel to it and go round and round
till it drops off.
My G62 with my home brew soft mounts and a firewall with muffler
weighs just slightly less than 5lbs. Over 3/4 lb lighter than my
previous installations. Now I just have to find a home for this nice
little motor. Any suggestions? I need a good winter project.
Peter Ashwood-Smith
>|> You can find more reliable engines, for more money.
>|> You can't find a better engine for the money.
>|>
>|> Steve
>
> I don't know Steve, my G23 is 6 years old, and its only quit
>twice and both times were due to fuel problems (i.e., I didn't fill
>the tank properly, and I ran out!) I don't know what engine you could
>get that's more reliable than that! More powerful, sure, less weight,
>sure, but in my experience, I've never seen anything more reliable -
>which more than makes up for the power and weight issues in my book.
>
>Bob
Exactly my experience. The G62 is the tops in reliability but not
power. My Sachs 4.2s are lighter and 20-30% more powerful but the
ignition has caused a couple of annoying problems and lost flying
days.
For a warbird or other plane where the extra 1lb in the nose is
not a problem the G62 is the way I'd go.
Richard Crapp
>I did not say that I would put an electronic ignition on a G62 if I was
>to buy one, I was just making a comparison to the 3W-60i. And by the way
>it is common knowledge that electronic ignition will make an engine
>easier to start
How can it be easier than one flip.
>and will also cure the shakes at low idle. The
> spark
>advance on an electronic ignition is retarded to about 4 degrees to
>facilitate no kick back starts.
>
>Vince
>Nihil est veritatis luce dulcius
So dose the standard magneto ignition.
Peter Ashwood-Smith
> pet...@bnr.ca (Peter Ashwood-Smith) wrote:
>>
>> I think the G45 is probably the best powerplant for
>> the money for 18-22lb models and the G62 for 20-25lb
>> models.
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, they're good... and if you convert the G62 to run on alcohol,
>WOW !! Incredible power !
>
> Gordon
That's something I may experiment with (herasy I know). I'd keep
the ignition/carb etc. just drill out the jets a tad and make up some
silicone gaskets. Does anybody know if there is a carb you can buy
already setup for alcohol?
Hey... the damn engine runs perfectly... time to fiddle with it
and make it less reliable ;)
Peter Ashwood-Smith
Definitely a weak point I agree. I keep a spare for my Sachs motors
and use the simple C&H unit. I figure I can easily make one if necessary
by reverse engineering the circuit, it has all of 10 simple components
on it, no CPU nothing, simplest system you can get and even they go T.U
every now and then. Good thing is that C&H fixes them for about $25 total
and 6-8 weeks turn around time.
Peter Ashwood-Smith
>rpm on the ground. Is this too little prop and too much rpm for the G-45?
The G45 really likes to spin. Most of the best installations I've seen
with this motor are also in the high 7 or low 8 grand range static. I've
even seen test reports showing it at 10 grand on a pipe so I don't think
you are under propping it. Certainly will not hurt it to prop it for
7-7.5 grand static but it will not be in its peak power band. There was
a review in MAN a few years ago and I believe the peak torque was in the
8 grand range.
Vince
> My G62 with my home brew soft mounts and a firewall with muffler
> weighs just slightly less than 5lbs. Over 3/4 lb lighter than my
> previous installations. Now I just have to find a home for this nice
> little motor. Any suggestions? I need a good winter project.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter
How bout you sell it to me Pete?
Vince
--
Gordon_M...@my-dejanews.com
pet...@bnr.ca (Peter Ashwood-Smith) wrote:
>
>
> That's something I may experiment with (herasy I know). I'd keep
> the ignition/carb etc. just drill out the jets a tad and make up some
> silicone gaskets. Does anybody know if there is a carb you can buy
> already setup for alcohol?
>
Holy cow Peter... I didn't expect that from you...
A few of our club members have done the conversion (not me yet... mine's
still on gas). If you want, I can ask them for details.
While my post about the alcohol convesrion was done partly to see if you'd
bite my head off, I really did mean it too... the difference is amazing.
One of our members has the larger of the Ohio Ultimates (I forget the size),
and the gas powered G62 flew it "okay". (I love Ohio kits, but they can be
quite heavy if you don't replace the lead planks that you often get disguised
as balsa).
Anyway, the engine was converted to run on alcohol, and the difference was
stunning. It's a whole different aircraft now! (By the way, the engine had
already been running very well on gas, so it's not just that he ran it poorly
on gas and well on alcohol.)
It can be quite interesting to see the difference a conversion can make...
one of the race teams I used to be in had a guy who converted a 280cc
Herbanson to run on alcohol. I think the term "ohmigod" was on everyone's
lips when Rusty first unleashed that beast ! The only problem was finding
somewhere to put a 1-gallon fuel tank. That seems to be the main downside
of the conversion... higher fuel consumption rate, so less flying time or
more space & weight for a larger tank.
Later,
Gordon
Brent Hudson
1: the plug has been thrown out and a brass (retains heat) spacer has been
screwed in its place with a tapped hole to fit a standard glow plug ( I run
now a Enya 3 on someones advise on this NG)
2: the original carb has been replaced by a normal OS carb, fitted by means
of a spacer.
3: All ignition stuff has been removed
works well
Brent
Peter Ashwood-Smith wrote in message <6v0rpu$4...@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com>...
>>In article <6uu9fh$q...@bcarh8ab.ca.nortel.com>,
>> pet...@bnr.ca (Peter Ashwood-Smith) wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the G45 is probably the best powerplant for
>>> the money for 18-22lb models and the G62 for 20-25lb
>>> models.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, they're good... and if you convert the G62 to run on alcohol,
>>WOW !! Incredible power !
>>
>> Gordon
>
> That's something I may experiment with (herasy I know). I'd keep
>the ignition/carb etc. just drill out the jets a tad and make up some
>silicone gaskets. Does anybody know if there is a carb you can buy
>already setup for alcohol?
>
> Hey... the damn engine runs perfectly... time to fiddle with it
>and make it less reliable ;)
>
Vince
> That's something I may experiment with (herasy I know). I'd keep
> the ignition/carb etc. just drill out the jets a tad and make up some
> silicone gaskets. Does anybody know if there is a carb you can buy
> already setup for alcohol?
One has to wonder how well the Zenoah lower end will hold up to an
alcohol conversion.
Michael Brooke
Gordon- Were you racing model airplanes or full scale motor cycles? Two
hundred eighty cc ?? On a model airplane??
Mike
Gordon_M...@my-dejanews.com
<A668DB5AFE0A65E2.1EF9B455...@library-proxy.airnews.net
>, "Michael Brooke" <mich...@dhc.net> wrote:
>
> Gordon- Were you racing model airplanes or full scale motor cycles? Two
> hundred eighty cc ?? On a model airplane??
>
> Mike
Mike - yes, it was for model aircraft. The Herbranson engine started out as a
military drone engine, but in the quest for "more power" we ended up putting
them on 1/4 scale Lancair and P51 models. Pretty awesome, especially after
our engine experts did a few mods.
I have no idea what horsepower it was developing... but I can tell you that
our FIRST Herbranson powered Lancair did a qualifying lap at Madera, at over
200 mph at HALF throttle. (Ken couldn't open the throttle any further, as we
had problems with the rudder moving slightly and causing fishtailing.) It
really annoyed the competition that we took fastest qualifying lap without
even opening the throttle fully ;-)
Robert H. Klenke
|> >I have been test running my G-45 with an 18-10 and 20-8 at around 8200-8400
|> >rpm on the ground. Is this too little prop and too much rpm for the G-45?
|>
|> The G45 really likes to spin. Most of the best installations I've seen
|> with this motor are also in the high 7 or low 8 grand range static. I've
|> even seen test reports showing it at 10 grand on a pipe so I don't think
|> you are under propping it. Certainly will not hurt it to prop it for
|> 7-7.5 grand static but it will not be in its peak power band. There was
|> a review in MAN a few years ago and I believe the peak torque was in the
|> 8 grand range.
|>
|>
|> Peter
|> --
|> +------------------------+-----------------------------------+
|> |Peter Ashwood-Smith | Email: pet...@nortel.ca |
|> |Northern Telecom | Work#: (613) 763-4534 |
|> |Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Home#: (819) 595-9032 |
|> | | Su26 : http://www.ibiska.com/orcc |
|> +------------------------+-----------------------------------+
I put a G45 on my 1/3 scale Sopwith Pup. I initially tried a
20X6 Zinger, and the RPM was in the 7200 range (I'm still running it a
bit rich of peak). Climb performance was not so great, so on the
theory that more prop sticking out beyond the Pup's HUGH cowling would
be better, I tried a 22X6 Zinger. With this prop, RPM was down into
the 6700 range, but climb performance was much better (speed of the
Pup never varies, even when they are powered by G62s, they always fly
at the same speed). My next experiment, after I save up the money, is
to try a 22X6 prop besides a Zinger, like a Top Flight or Menz, to see
if the more efficient prop will make the climb even better.
The point is, the G45 will swing a bigger prop if need be, and
depending on the aircraft, may result in better performance.
Jeremy Randle
We have an Aerrow 70cc engine which is similar to Sachs or Zenoah. After some
problems with the ignition lead we converted it to Methanol. Made an adapter
to fir the spark plug hole and hold an OS glow plug. Removed magneto etc.
Removed flywheel and made our own prop driver with integral spinner backplate.
Saved a heap of weight.
We obtained another identical carb. Then, with the help of a friend who had
done it all before, bored out the fuel jets. We did this in steps until we
could get the engine to run too rich with the needle wide open, then closed
the needle to the desired mixture position.
As I think Gordon said, weight of engine comes down, power goes up, fuel
consumption goes up, fuel weight goes up, fuel cost goes up.
All depends what you want and what the available ways of getting it are.
Hope this helps,
Jeremy Randle
PS/ Would love to see this plane with the 280cc engine fly :)
Gordon_M...@my-dejanews.com
j...@aero.usyd.edu.au (Jeremy Randle) wrote:
>
> PS/ Would love to see this plane with the 280cc engine fly :)
>
The one that we had with the converted engine (Nelson/Pennzoil race #007)
is sadly no longer with us. The engine is still around, and may race again
if Rusty gets enough time to build a new aircraft, and is not put off by all
the politics that have pretty much decimated the giant-scale race circuit.
Several of the gas powered 280cc Herbranson's are still racing, but right
now the engine of choice seems to be the A-cubed. I don't have all the details
on it, as I gave up the race circuit - I believe it's a smaller displacement
(about 200cc ?) engine, but it's lighter and easier to fit into some of the
more compact aircraft such as the Lancair, and way more power than the Aerrow
200 can deliver.