Goldberg Tiger 2 - Aileron Frustration
SPuck99
tough and simple. (Exposed engine, fuel hatch). So I built a Tiger 2 exactly
as per the plans (well OK I beefed up the landing gear mounts) and I used the
hardware that was in the kit. Plane built easily and was covered in Ultracote.
An OS .46FX was installed along with a Futaba 6XA.
First take-off was smooth. I climbed to altitude and with a few clicks of trim
it was flying straight and level and could have flown around the world, hands
off. About four minutes into the flight I heard some "flutter" so I
immediately chopped the throttle and made a smooth but sluggish landing. I
taxied back and discovered that only my right aileron worked. When I took off
the wing I discovered that the "snap nut" that the instructions said to use on
the aileron servo horn had come off.
Ok, my stupidity. I knew that was a bad setup. While someone watched my stuff
I went to the hobby shop and got some Great Planes Faslink Pushrod Keepers.
Back at the field all controls were treated to a round of "keepers".
Second flight was 8 1/2 minutes of rich 1/2 to 2/3 throttle (new engine) and
final trim. Great landing.
About 4 minutes into the third flight (just a little leaner so just a little
faster) but still 2/3 throttle there was "loud flutter". I chopped the
throttle, fought for control and made a heroes landing. :-)
Once on the ground and out of the porta-potty I discovered the left aileron
ripped almost off with two of the barb type (kit supplied) hinges pulled out
and one of them broke in two.
Back at home I epoxied the two hinges back in (real good) and added a CA hinge
beside the spot where the one had broken. I then gap-sealed the ailerons from
beneath the wing with two strips of ultracote. Worked fine!
Back at the field today I had two great flights just cruising around the sky at
about two thirds throttle again. (Just getting time on the engine) On the
third flight I was at about half throttle when I banked gently left to enter
the pattern for a landing. "Flutter" again. I landed and noticed no apparent
damage.
Back home tonight I dug up two old reviews of the Tiger 2 and both reviews
mentioned aileron flutter. This is a great flying and great looking airplane
but I am at a loss for a solution. Surely someone else out there must have
experienced and solved this problem with this plane. Any Suggestions?
Charlie Hope
> Back home tonight I dug up two old reviews of the Tiger 2 and both reviews
> mentioned aileron flutter. This is a great flying and great looking airplane
> but I am at a loss for a solution. Surely someone else out there must have
> experienced and solved this problem with this plane. Any Suggestions?
>
Regardless of the kit, flutter is usually caused by too much gap between the
aileron and the wing as well as insuficient hinging. Try adding more hinges
than the kit calls foe and if you can't get the gap tight try sealing it with
a bit of tape. Celophane tape is usually suficient but make sure that when
you put it on the aileron is still free to move. Push the aileron all the
way down when you put he tape on the top of the gap. and all the way up when
putting it on the bottom. Hope this helps. Aileron flutter can impose
tremendous stress on hardware that should normally last for years so there
may be nothing wrong with the type of linkages you are using. Congratulations
on so many great saves, but it does stress one out. Charlie
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Charlie Hope
hinges and tight linkages don't know what to say. charlie
Eanderso
planes. Just a couple of days ago I had a similiar incident but with my RT
aileron. I had just come out of a split S and was screaming across the field
when I heard the "flutter" I chopped the throttle and landed immediatly. My
Rt aileron had ripped apart from the hinges and the torque rod was the only
thing holding it on the plane.
I had my gaps filled on the ailerons and elevators but I still have the problem
at high speeds. I have read that the best/only solution is to use a dual
aileron setup to fix the problem I think that is what I am going to do to
solve the problem.
Good Luck
Erik"Hellcat"Anderson
J BRAINer
Chris
effectiveness. What causes flutter is weak linkage. Torque rods are ok on
some models but using dual servos for ailerons is much better. This puts
the aileron
control linkage out further on the aileron better distributing the load.
Also, the linkage is usually stiffer. Remove the covering from the
bottom of the wing and install dual aileron servos as far out as you can
get them,in the middle of the aileron if possible. Make sure you
reinforce the ribs you are attaching the servos to. Use 4-40 rods to
connect the servos to the aileron control arms. Dont use Z-bends to
connet the rods. Use clevis' on both ends. Also, use a BB servo and not
a standard servo for the ailerons. Standard servos will have more output
shaft slop in them.
This is gauranteed to solve your problem!
Chris
aur...@iamerica.net
>
> I was thinking about getting a tiger 2, should I not?
Go ahead and get one, it's a good airplane, but I would use two servos
for the ailerons instead of the setup the plans call for.
Vince
--
I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it left
Jim Gill
<snip>
> Back home tonight I dug up two old reviews of the Tiger 2 and both reviews
> mentioned aileron flutter. This is a great flying and great looking airplane
> but I am at a loss for a solution. Surely someone else out there must have
> experienced and solved this problem with this plane. Any Suggestions?
Two things you could try.
Make sure that the trailing edge of the ailerons is not rounded but
square. It seems that rounded TE's can induce flutter.
Increase the thickness of the ailerons. Try putting a thin ply strip
on the top surface of the aileron at it's leading edge. This cured a
friends problem with aileron flutter on one of his planes.
--
Jim
Dundee Model Aircraft Club
http://home.clara.net/wbruce.ogilvy/
Scottish Aeromodellers Association
SPuck99
In spite of my problems I still think it is a good building and great flying
aircraft and I would still recommend it. BUT I would definitely use two
aileron servos. From the many responses I have received it is obvious to me
that this aircraft has had this problem since day one. Since it is billed as a
low wing trainer I believe that Goldberg should have included an addendum sheet
at least suggesting that two aileron servos be used and given instructions for
doing so in their plans.
pjb...@my-dejanews.com
Charlie Hope <charl...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Back home tonight I dug up two old reviews of the Tiger 2 and both reviews
> > mentioned aileron flutter. This is a great flying and great looking
airplane
> > but I am at a loss for a solution. Surely someone else out there must have
> > experienced and solved this problem with this plane. Any Suggestions?
> >
>
> aileron and the wing as well as insuficient hinging. Try adding more hinges
> than the kit calls foe and if you can't get the gap tight try sealing it with
> a bit of tape. Celophane tape is usually suficient but make sure that
when
> you put it on the aileron is still free to move. Push the aileron all the
> way down when you put he tape on the top of the gap. and all the way up when
> putting it on the bottom. Hope this helps. Aileron flutter can impose
> tremendous stress on hardware that should normally last for years so there
> may be nothing wrong with the type of linkages you are using. Congratulations
> on so many great saves, but it does stress one out. Charlie
>
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
PJB's Seriously Aeronautical Stuff
http://www.ptw.com/~pjburke
grwa...@turk.net
had anything even remotely like this happen. Even came 5th in a fly-in type
pylon race with it!
Maybe you should check the way you installed the torque rods? It might be
that you made the holes in the aileron a little too big, or didn't get them
properly recessed in the groove you made in the LE of the aileron. To
re-glue them, get a piece of wide packing tape, feed it through where the
wire enters the aileron, liberally smear the wire, hole and groove with epoxy
and pull the tape tight. When the epoxy sets remove the tape.
BTW I didn't trust the nylon torque rod guides and used some Du-Bro parts
instead. These have tabs that go deep into the TE of the wing. With a single
servo, this place has to be very rigid and slop-free. If you have any doubt
at all, slice off the TE taper and re-do it.
Best regards,
George Wagner
In article <19990320200735...@ng-fw1.aol.com>,
> Back home tonight I dug up two old reviews of the Tiger 2 and both reviews
> mentioned aileron flutter. This is a great flying and great looking airplane
> but I am at a loss for a solution. Surely someone else out there must have
> experienced and solved this problem with this plane. Any Suggestions?
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
jimmc...@my-dejanews.com
Replace the wimpey aileron linkage with something more substantial (the wire
is too small a guage & flexs easily). The ailerons on most of the kits are of
an overly soft balsa as well & tend to flutter near the tip due to lack of
torsional strength, replace these with hard balsa (darker color with lots of
grain showing). Sealing the gaps as you did is always good practice. If
you're going to push the speed envelope on this plane (and you will),
consider two servos with short, direct pushrods, close to the center of the
aileron.
Jim McIntyre
http://members.tripod.com/~Jim_McIntyre
jimmc...@my-dejanews.com
Go buy one, you won't regret it. Just replace the soft balsa ailerons with
hard balsa & use two servos....
jimmc...@my-dejanews.com
cb...@worldnet.att.net (Chris) wrote:
> Too much gap doesnt cause flutter but it does reduce the control surface
> effectiveness. What causes flutter is weak linkage. Torque rods are ok on
> some models but using dual servos for ailerons is much better. This puts
> the aileron
> control linkage out further on the aileron better distributing the load.
> Also, the linkage is usually stiffer. Remove the covering from the
> bottom of the wing and install dual aileron servos as far out as you can
> get them,in the middle of the aileron if possible. Make sure you
> reinforce the ribs you are attaching the servos to. Use 4-40 rods to
> connect the servos to the aileron control arms. Dont use Z-bends to
> connet the rods. Use clevis' on both ends.
I agree with everything you said up to this point. Although poorly formed
'Z-bends' can be a source of slop, this doesn't mean Z-bends are incorrect for
this use. I have Z-bends on my 1/4 scale Cap21 with 38cc ignition engine... no
problems....
> Also, use a BB servo and not
> a standard servo for the ailerons. Standard servos will have more output
> shaft slop in them.
True but, this is a little overkill (and expensive) for a slow .40 size sport
plane.
zo...@webtv.net
planes.
The one who dies with the most toys WINS!!!
ron...@hotmail.com
I have just finished a Tiger 2 as saturday plane.
I just love CG models, NOT the kits and NOT the hardware. I never use most of
the hardware CG supplies, but as a flying platform - they are the best.
Niether I use CA hings - I had one broken 3 years ego.
Instaed, I use pin hings and on models such size I use Z connects, no EZ or
SNAPS.
Try to get the ailrons as close to the trailing edge as possible by "hiding"
the hings in the trailing edge.
I hope this will help.
Safe and happy landigs
Ronen, Israel
========================================================================
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pboo...@pacbell.net
1. Ensure leading edge of aileron is smooth, are attached firmly and the gap is
minimized betwen the aileron and wing.
2. As I did, put servos in each wing.
Till the day I sold mine, (last week), NO FLUTTER was audible. I flew the plane
w/46FX at
WOT and it was smooth.
Paul.